This evening everyone is talking about it. I’ve never known such universal contempt for a US politician, even in 2003.
Which is why Starmer now needs to do the Love Actually thing (or at least a positive tweet to Zelenskyy). If he doesn’t, he becomes the enemy. Shit, even Jenrick said the right thing today.
I suspect, but maybe it is hopium, that today's events and optics will be a polling disaster for Trump 2.0.
I said they would over reach and here we are.
The America people are better than this. Just a basic level of civil decency and decorum.
But as I say, maybe hopium.
You know all those times Biden would say after something terrible happened like a shooting “ it’s not who we are “ well to be blunt for half of America it is . I will not accept any excuses by those who voted for Trump . They knew what they were voting for , they were happy for the hate and repercussions to be on other people . Now some are finding out they’re the targets , they can fxck right off .
Zelenskyy must be very confident that he is going to get massive support on Sunday. The man is incredibly brave but he is not an idiot and he is carrying his country on his back.
Trump screamed at him that he had no cards. His cutting reply was that he wasn’t playing cards. But I suspect that he had an Ace in his back pocket.
In which event it will be Trump that has overplayed his hand.
I'm not much of a fan of the US geopolitical role over the last century, but I've always been moved by a speech that Harry Hopkins, US envoy & eventual administrator of Lend Lease and already suffering from terminal cancer, gave at the North British Hotel in Glasgow in 1941. Churchill among others was reported to be in tears afterwards.
"I suppose you wish to know what I am going to say to President Roosevelt on my return. Well I am going to quote to you one verse from the Book of Ruth ... 'Whither thou goest, I will go and where thou lodgest I will lodge, thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God.'"
Compare that to the grifters, cowards, vulgarians and rsoles present in the White House today.
I mentioned Fitzroy Maclean the other day. He was sent by Churchill into Yugoslavia to meet with Tito and assess the anti-German operations by both the Communists and the Chetniks who Britain were supplying with weapons and support to fight the Axis.
Maclean reported back that the Chetniks were more interested in cementing their own position in the Balkans and were killing more Yugoslavs than Germans whilst the Communists under Tito were making real progress against the Axis forces. He said that Britain should support Tito but that if we did then Yugoslavia would be Communist aftert the war.
Churchill, in spite of his famous and absolute detestation of Communists, said that if Tito was killing Germans then Britain should support him and they could worry about the post war settlement later. He wrote a glowing letter to Tito which the Communist leader never forgot and which he used as part of his justification for distancing his country from Russia in the post war era.
I didn't know that.
It all got rather messy later in the war when the end was in sight and Churchill started to worry about Russian influence but as I say, Tito never forgot the help Britain gave him when things were looking dodgy.
Zelenskyy must be very confident that he is going to get massive support on Sunday. The man is incredibly brave but he is not an idiot and he is carrying his country on his back.
Trump screamed at him that he had no cards. His cutting reply was that he wasn’t playing cards. But I suspect that he had an Ace in his back pocket.
In which event it will be Trump that has overplayed his hand.
This is a time for cool, wise heads. It’s an extraordinarily dangerous moment. The right move is to lower the temperature, but take the lesson and adapt to this new world.
I genuinely don’t know what Starmer should do. I still think his approach yesterday was the right one although I now have some doubts.
It was the right thing to do yesterday; nobody expected Trump to throw such a pathetic tantrum as this today. Maybe we should have done, but nobody did.
The hard bit is what to do next. Over to you, Prime Minister.
For those saying Zelenskyy should have handled Trump differently: put yourself in his shoes. For the past three years he has been in the midst of a war, sleeping little, knowing his country isn't winning. And know he knows he has been betrayed utterly.
I'm amazed he didn't try to punch Vance.
True it’s very easy for commentators to say he should just ignore Trumps comments . I have huge admiration for Zelenskyy , he’s a remarkable man but it’s going to be incredibly difficult to get a deal now unless he makes a grovelling apology to Trump .
It's only Trump (and Putin) who want a deal. What is needed is to continue grinding the Russians' noses into the dirt
This is the great unspoken truth that nobody is latching onto.
Russia is sending meat waves on Donkeys.
Yep. But Trump 2.0 don't want know the reality because they want to crawl up Putin's arse and live in his fucked up universe.
Zelenskyy must be very confident that he is going to get massive support on Sunday. The man is incredibly brave but he is not an idiot and he is carrying his country on his back.
Trump screamed at him that he had no cards. His cutting reply was that he wasn’t playing cards. But I suspect that he had an Ace in his back pocket.
In which event it will be Trump that has overplayed his hand.
What could the ace be?
Enough European support to win the war (and make the US irrelevant).
Bacon: “A bad day for America’s foreign policy. Ukraine wants independence, free markets and rule of law. It wants to be part of the West. Russia hates us and our Western values. We should be clear that we stand for freedom.”
This is a time for cool, wise heads. It’s an extraordinarily dangerous moment. The right move is to lower the temperature, but take the lesson and adapt to this new world.
I genuinely don’t know what Starmer should do. I still think his approach yesterday was the right one although I now have some doubts.
Starmer should not worry, you can't control the future. He rolled the pitch perfectly for the meeting today.
Mandelson and Powell will be earning their crusts tonight.
Bacon: “A bad day for America’s foreign policy. Ukraine wants independence, free markets and rule of law. It wants to be part of the West. Russia hates us and our Western values. We should be clear that we stand for freedom.”
I assume part of Putin's goal is to have Ukraine so abandoned and ignored by the West that even the part of it not under his control eventually becomes more susceptible to Russia bribing and influencing its way back in. Like Georgia.
This is a time for cool, wise heads. It’s an extraordinarily dangerous moment. The right move is to lower the temperature, but take the lesson and adapt to this new world.
I genuinely don’t know what Starmer should do. I still think his approach yesterday was the right one although I now have some doubts.
Realpolitik and try to steer it is what I would do if PM.
Possibly cancel Z’s visit to UK this Sunday so as not to wind up the White House. Let things cool. I view yesterday as a flop, a pass the sick bag flop, as there has only been one thing to sort out all week, security grantees from USA to Ukraine to enable Z to sign the minerals deal, Starmer came back without that, so yesterday was a huge flop, a whole lot of nothing achieved. It meant Z turned up today to honestly say I’m not signing without security grantees, and the Trump Administration went ballistic.
Sky - government saying it is unhelpful and Zelensky is no diplomat
He's not a "diplomat" because he's a warrior leader in a fight for the survival of his country.
The time for "diplomacy" has long since passed. I wonder how "diplomatic" Churchill was as we stood of the precipice in 1940...
He was very diplomatic, because he was trying to woo the USA for support, in the face of an isolationist movement.
At the time we were transferring $200bn (2024 prices) worth of gold bullion to the USA to pay for weapons in Operation Fish as - all Western European countries having defaulted or tried to default on WW1 debt - they were only taking portable wealth.
The UK was functionally bankrupt, so I don't guess he had a lot of option,
If Trump does audit Fort Knox, there could be 1500 tons of gold with Bank of England stamps on it !
For those saying Zelenskyy should have handled Trump differently: put yourself in his shoes. For the past three years he has been in the midst of a war, sleeping little, knowing his country isn't winning. And know he knows he has been betrayed utterly.
I'm amazed he didn't try to punch Vance.
True it’s very easy for commentators to say he should just ignore Trumps comments . I have huge admiration for Zelenskyy , he’s a remarkable man but it’s going to be incredibly difficult to get a deal now unless he makes a grovelling apology to Trump .
It's only Trump (and Putin) who want a deal. What is needed is to continue grinding the Russians' noses into the dirt
This is the great unspoken truth that nobody is latching onto.
Russia is sending meat waves on Donkeys.
Yep. But Trump 2.0 don't want know the reality because they want to crawl up Putin's arse and live in his fucked up universe.
Notable on social media: the Tories have decided on a strategy, that they should support Ukraine and condemn Trump. Multiple conservatives all giving similar messages.
So this is their kill-Reform strategy, I assume. From a domestic politics point of view it makes sense. Must be uncomfortable for MAGA-aligned politicians in the ranks, but they’re all at it. Kemi, Jenrick, IDS, Cleverly. Quite a brave tactical decision.
No. I’m not convinced the rare earths in Ukraine are all that plentiful, all that rare and interesting, and not without some large energy costs right now in extracting and processing them. I think MAGA may have oversold the idea to themselves.
Notable on social media: the Tories have decided on a strategy, that they should support Ukraine and condemn Trump. Multiple conservatives all giving similar messages.
So this is their kill-Reform strategy, I assume. From a domestic politics point of view it makes sense. Must be uncomfortable for MAGA-aligned politicians in the ranks, but they’re all at it. Kemi, Jenrick, IDS, Cleverly. Quite a brave tactical decision.
Still time to deselect some of the Trumpier candidates ahead of this year's locals, technically.
Notable on social media: the Tories have decided on a strategy, that they should support Ukraine and condemn Trump. Multiple conservatives all giving similar messages.
So this is their kill-Reform strategy, I assume. From a domestic politics point of view it makes sense. Must be uncomfortable for MAGA-aligned politicians in the ranks, but they’re all at it. Kemi, Jenrick, IDS, Cleverly. Quite a brave tactical decision.
I am very pleased to hear that and it is the right thing to do
This is a time for cool, wise heads. It’s an extraordinarily dangerous moment. The right move is to lower the temperature, but take the lesson and adapt to this new world.
I genuinely don’t know what Starmer should do. I still think his approach yesterday was the right one although I now have some doubts.
It was the right thing to do yesterday; nobody expected Trump to throw such a pathetic tantrum as this today. Maybe we should have done, but nobody did.
The hard bit is what to do next. Over to you, Prime Minister.
It might be hard for Starmer and his Ming Vase bollocks. But the right thing to do is very clear and it was immediately apparent to every other Western leader.
Diplomacy, alliances, democracy - all depend on good faith and honest disagreement. If UKGov caves to this kind of bullying and gangsterism, and fails to condemn it, we will be complicit in bringing it all down.
No doubt there we will be people saying it is hyperbole and we aren't there yet and I'm overreacting and I'm just a pant wetting liberal, but...
I also remember an excellent paper that the right wing think-tank Politeia published 20-odd years ago about what might happen if America goes rogue/isolationist. I should dig it out and give it a read, but I'm fairly certain it didn't posit an America.that allied itself to a Russian kleptocracy.
Unprecedented. Shocking. This public verbal spat, this haranguing in the White House of a visiting president is dramatic. Zelensky invited it by being argumentative instead of tactfully steering the exchange in a more positive direction. He has been lionised so much that he has developed an inordinate sense of entitlement. He has lectured European leaders and got away with it. It hasn’t worked with Trump and Vance.
The Indians obviously have an unreasonably favourable view of imperialism because of their experience of it.
Had they been colonised by the Russians or Japanese they wouldn't be so indifferent to Ukraine's suffering.
The Napoleon meets Wellington scene was an out take from Blackadder, as a far as I can work out.
Personally I am no enthusiast for Napoleon. But he had charisma and drive and millions followed him. The Napoleon depicted in the film reminds me of the old military joke - “His men will not follow him. Even out of curiosity.”
No. I’m not convinced the rare earths in Ukraine are all that plentiful, all that rare and interesting, and not without some large energy costs right now in extracting and processing them. I think MAGA may have oversold the idea to themselves.
They are also largely in the part of Ukraine controlled by Putin.
Zelenskyy must be very confident that he is going to get massive support on Sunday. The man is incredibly brave but he is not an idiot and he is carrying his country on his back.
Trump screamed at him that he had no cards. His cutting reply was that he wasn’t playing cards. But I suspect that he had an Ace in his back pocket.
In which event it will be Trump that has overplayed his hand.
Notable on social media: the Tories have decided on a strategy, that they should support Ukraine and condemn Trump. Multiple conservatives all giving similar messages.
So this is their kill-Reform strategy, I assume. From a domestic politics point of view it makes sense. Must be uncomfortable for MAGA-aligned politicians in the ranks, but they’re all at it. Kemi, Jenrick, IDS, Cleverly. Quite a brave tactical decision.
I am very pleased to hear that and it is the right thing to do
It does somewhat reassure me that they are “us”, rather than “them”. I find Reform to be a bit too “them” for comfort.
He supported Trump. You cannot have supported Trump in an election and back Ukraine. It’s as contradictory a position as a few users here hold.
Lots of people - lots of intelligent people - thought that Trump was going to be no worse for Ukraine than Biden.
Just a few days ago I posted that while Trump's Ukraine shakedown was unseemly, it was probably ultimately a good for Ukraine, as it put the US firmly in the Ukraine camp.
I now know I was wrong. I hope Johnson is also having second thoughts about President Trump.
I like you - although I don’t agree with many of your posts - and I respect you enough to sincerely ask you, how on Earth did you think Trump would be no worse for Ukraine than Biden?
I am literally flabbergasted that anyone could conclude that.
He is clearly worse for Ukraine's war aims and territorial integrity than Biden - but not necessarily worse for its people. This war has been a stalemate for a very long time. It may as well be a stalemate with no shots being fired, than a stalemate with things and people being blown to bits.
No. I’m not convinced the rare earths in Ukraine are all that plentiful, all that rare and interesting, and not without some large energy costs right now in extracting and processing them. I think MAGA may have oversold the idea to themselves.
They are also largely in the part of Ukraine controlled by Putin.
No, there's still plenty of worthwhile stuff in the 80%+ part of Ukraine retained.
I just can’t believe how unprofessional Trump and Vance are. This is real life, a war, not a reality TV show.
He was desperate to say, “you’re fired” wasn’t he?
It is a reality tv show. In Trump's head.
Seriously, this is the point everyone needs to understand. This is exactly how he thinks.
Every day is a new episode.
Today was the "We break up with Ukraine" episode.
Tomorrow might well be "We make up with Ukraine" and there's lovely bit at the end where we walk on the sands together at one of my golf clubs. With Carpenters music.
Zelenskyy must be very confident that he is going to get massive support on Sunday. The man is incredibly brave but he is not an idiot and he is carrying his country on his back.
Trump screamed at him that he had no cards. His cutting reply was that he wasn’t playing cards. But I suspect that he had an Ace in his back pocket.
In which event it will be Trump that has overplayed his hand.
I hope you're right, David, but I saw a man who simply lost his cool amongst a den of fools.
Zelenskyy must be very confident that he is going to get massive support on Sunday. The man is incredibly brave but he is not an idiot and he is carrying his country on his back.
Trump screamed at him that he had no cards. His cutting reply was that he wasn’t playing cards. But I suspect that he had an Ace in his back pocket.
In which event it will be Trump that has overplayed his hand.
I hope you're right, David, but I saw a man who simply lost his cool amongst a den of fools.
Nothing Zelenskyy said was particularly rude or disrespectful. Anyone objective watching that press conference would have felt they witnessed a nasty case of bullying.
Everything that Trump and Vance said was both rude and disrespectful.
Dear America. We warned you but you elected a Russian asset as your President. He then put in place a cabinet of weirdos, other Russian assets, and crooks. I expect Trump to sell Alaska back to the Russians, Guam and Hawaii to the Chinese, but not Texas to the Mexicans. I joke - but not much.
When I look at what's just happened, I'm reminded of WhoWhatWhy's summary of Trump:
We sometimes get asked why we talk about Donald Trump as though he is a criminal moron with various personality disorders. The answer is, of course, that we do it because he is a criminal moron with various personality disorders.
Interestingly I am seeing a lot of anger from Canadian friends towards Starmer post the Trump meeting. They feel his comments about the US and UK never being divided have stabbed them in the back given all the threats Trump is making against Canada.
I still hold with what I said yesterday. Starmer should have told Trump to go fuck himself. Even better if he had used those exact words.
Zelenskyy must be very confident that he is going to get massive support on Sunday. The man is incredibly brave but he is not an idiot and he is carrying his country on his back.
Trump screamed at him that he had no cards. His cutting reply was that he wasn’t playing cards. But I suspect that he had an Ace in his back pocket.
In which event it will be Trump that has overplayed his hand.
I hope you're right, David, but I saw a man who simply lost his cool amongst a den of fools.
Nothing Zelenskyy said was particularly rude or disrespectful. Anyone objective watching that press conference would have felt they witnessed a nasty case of bullying.
Everything that Trump and Vance said was both rude and disrespectful.
True, but he made mistakes. Saying he was alone (when his “ally” was there) and the war was coming across the Atlantic lacked diplomatic tact. Understandable but foolish.
It’s time for cool heads and to remember that the US and Ukraine are on the same side.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy has led his people heroically for three years against completely unprovoked aggression from Russia.
The bravery of the Ukrainians has been amazing. Their suffering has been appalling.
It is they who deserve our support and they who frankly deserve our respect.
The best way forward now is for the minerals deal to be signed as soon as possible. There is still a path to peace.
Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
What a pathetic man he is. He literally has no principles or views.
You should be far more concerned at Starmer’s silence this evening, when leaders across Europe and here the conservatives and lib dems have given full support to Zelensky
And I have asked you before, do you agree the invitation to Trump should be withdrawn?
Interestingly I am seeing a lot of anger from Canadian friends towards Starmer post the Trump meeting. They feel his comments about the US and UK never being divided have stabbed them in the back given all the threats Trump is making against Canada.
I still hold with what I said yesterday. Starmer should have told Trump to go fuck himself. Even better if he had used those exact words.
Unprecedented. Shocking. This public verbal spat, this haranguing in the White House of a visiting president is dramatic. Zelensky invited it by being argumentative instead of tactfully steering the exchange in a more positive direction. He has been lionised so much that he has developed an inordinate sense of entitlement. He has lectured European leaders and got away with it. It hasn’t worked with Trump and Vance.
The Indians obviously have an unreasonably favourable view of imperialism because of their experience of it.
Had they been colonised by the Russians or Japanese they wouldn't be so indifferent to Ukraine's suffering.
Post-colonial discourse is all about the anger that’s felt, over having your arses kicked by foreigners , when you’re the guys who should be kicking foreigners’ arses.
Notable on social media: the Tories have decided on a strategy, that they should support Ukraine and condemn Trump. Multiple conservatives all giving similar messages.
So this is their kill-Reform strategy, I assume. From a domestic politics point of view it makes sense. Must be uncomfortable for MAGA-aligned politicians in the ranks, but they’re all at it. Kemi, Jenrick, IDS, Cleverly. Quite a brave tactical decision.
I am very pleased to hear that and it is the right thing to do
It does somewhat reassure me that they are “us”, rather than “them”. I find Reform to be a bit too “them” for comfort.
I am sure they will be most distressed to discover that they can no longer count on your vote.
It’s time for cool heads and to remember that the US and Ukraine are on the same side.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy has led his people heroically for three years against completely unprovoked aggression from Russia.
The bravery of the Ukrainians has been amazing. Their suffering has been appalling.
It is they who deserve our support and they who frankly deserve our respect.
The best way forward now is for the minerals deal to be signed as soon as possible. There is still a path to peace.
Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
What a pathetic man he is. He literally has no principles or views.
Yes. Does he mean signed with security guarantees added, or as current on Trumps terms? Despite waffle there is only one key line in there, and gives us the understanding he thinks Trump is right.
He's looking like a rabbit in the headlights for sure.
About to be rub down by a Tesla.
I can only assume that he is desperately trying to get on the blower to Trump and say "now Donald, remember what we spoke about yesterday... the king isn't very happy and he might not be able to meet you after this.... yes of course Zelenskyy is very rude..." and get a Ukraine-US deal signed after all. Might have to involve Zelenskyy resigning though.
This is a time for cool, wise heads. It’s an extraordinarily dangerous moment. The right move is to lower the temperature, but take the lesson and adapt to this new world.
I genuinely don’t know what Starmer should do. I still think his approach yesterday was the right one although I now have some doubts.
Starmer should not worry, you can't control the future. He rolled the pitch perfectly for the meeting today.
Mandelson and Powell will be earning their crusts tonight.
Lord Mandelbrot will be earning his ... Brot.
Also, on nominative determinism, from rolling the pitch, there was a very formidable lawnmower with a multi 100kg powered roller in the 1960s and 1970s called a Brott.
I used to mow an acre of grass with it when I was a lad. It was a flail mower that used to be capable of throwing half-bricks out of the back.
Zelenskyy must be very confident that he is going to get massive support on Sunday. The man is incredibly brave but he is not an idiot and he is carrying his country on his back.
Trump screamed at him that he had no cards. His cutting reply was that he wasn’t playing cards. But I suspect that he had an Ace in his back pocket.
In which event it will be Trump that has overplayed his hand.
🚨The Trump administration is considering ending all ongoing shipments of military aid to Ukraine in response to Zelensky’s remarks in the Oval Office on Friday and his perceived intransigence in the peace process, per senior administration official
It’s time for cool heads and to remember that the US and Ukraine are on the same side.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy has led his people heroically for three years against completely unprovoked aggression from Russia.
The bravery of the Ukrainians has been amazing. Their suffering has been appalling.
It is they who deserve our support and they who frankly deserve our respect.
The best way forward now is for the minerals deal to be signed as soon as possible. There is still a path to peace.
Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
What a pathetic man he is. He literally has no principles or views.
You should be far more concerned at Starmer’s silence this evening, when leaders across Europe and here the conservatives and lib dems have given full support to Zelensky
And I have asked you before, do you agree the invitation to Trump should be withdrawn?
🚨The Trump administration is considering ending all ongoing shipments of military aid to Ukraine in response to Zelensky’s remarks in the Oval Office on Friday and his perceived intransigence in the peace process, per senior administration official
Now that IS much more serious. That truly is music to Moscow ears.
Notable on social media: the Tories have decided on a strategy, that they should support Ukraine and condemn Trump. Multiple conservatives all giving similar messages.
So this is their kill-Reform strategy, I assume. From a domestic politics point of view it makes sense. Must be uncomfortable for MAGA-aligned politicians in the ranks, but they’re all at it. Kemi, Jenrick, IDS, Cleverly. Quite a brave tactical decision.
I am very pleased to hear that and it is the right thing to do
It does somewhat reassure me that they are “us”, rather than “them”. I find Reform to be a bit too “them” for comfort.
I am sure they will be most distressed to discover that they can no longer count on your vote.
Zelenskyy must be very confident that he is going to get massive support on Sunday. The man is incredibly brave but he is not an idiot and he is carrying his country on his back.
Trump screamed at him that he had no cards. His cutting reply was that he wasn’t playing cards. But I suspect that he had an Ace in his back pocket.
In which event it will be Trump that has overplayed his hand.
I hope you're right, David, but I saw a man who simply lost his cool amongst a den of fools.
Nothing Zelenskyy said was particularly rude or disrespectful. Anyone objective watching that press conference would have felt they witnessed a nasty case of bullying.
Everything that Trump and Vance said was both rude and disrespectful.
I could not agree more, Tim. As my earlier posts make clear, I hope, I don't place any responsibility whatsoever on Zelenksyy.
Nevertheless, I don't think his replies were strategic as David implies. I think they were just an honest, incredulous, furious response to being lectured on diplomacy by a complete fuckwit.
It’s time for cool heads and to remember that the US and Ukraine are on the same side.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy has led his people heroically for three years against completely unprovoked aggression from Russia.
The bravery of the Ukrainians has been amazing. Their suffering has been appalling.
It is they who deserve our support and they who frankly deserve our respect.
The best way forward now is for the minerals deal to be signed as soon as possible. There is still a path to peace.
Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
What a pathetic man he is. He literally has no principles or views.
You should be far more concerned at Starmer’s silence this evening, when leaders across Europe and here the conservatives and lib dems have given full support to Zelensky
And I have asked you before, do you agree the invitation to Trump should be withdrawn?
Would you seriously withdraw it if you were PM?
It shouldn't have been offered in the first place, and is now a huge embarrassment that is likely to end up in the commons and may ultimately be withdrawn or certainly shelved
It’s time for cool heads and to remember that the US and Ukraine are on the same side.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy has led his people heroically for three years against completely unprovoked aggression from Russia.
The bravery of the Ukrainians has been amazing. Their suffering has been appalling.
It is they who deserve our support and they who frankly deserve our respect.
The best way forward now is for the minerals deal to be signed as soon as possible. There is still a path to peace.
Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
What a pathetic man he is. He literally has no principles or views.
You should be far more concerned at Starmer’s silence this evening, when leaders across Europe and here the conservatives and lib dems have given full support to Zelensky
And I have asked you before, do you agree the invitation to Trump should be withdrawn?
Would you seriously withdraw it if you were PM?
It shouldn't have been offered in the first place, and is now a huge embarrassment that is likely to end up in the commons and may ultimately be withdrawn or certainly shelved
Good non answer to your own question. But if you were PM this evening, would you withdraw it this very evening? Or sleep on for now it and focus instead on what makes Sunday a success, not just waste of time talking shop and communique of nothing we currently expect it to be?
🚨The Trump administration is considering ending all ongoing shipments of military aid to Ukraine in response to Zelensky’s remarks in the Oval Office on Friday and his perceived intransigence in the peace process, per senior administration official
Now that IS much more serious. That truly is music to Moscow ears.
On a completely different topic: travel advice please.
I’m doing a 2 day conference in Mexico City in April. I’ll probably have a day or two around it to explore. I’ve not been to Mexico City before, so what should I see while I’m there?
Boris Johnson is a coward and a liar. It is embarrassing that anyone in the UK still holds him up as good.
Of course there are those that still actually support him but only pipe up about it when they fancy it. Normally they hope we forget.
Odd how they seem to be in force tonight…
Boris did the right thing initially when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022. His instincts on Russia and Putin, going back to Salisbury in 2018, are sound (which is more than can be said for Jezza and Nigel Farage)
Unfortunately, like a lot on the British right, he has a blind spot when it comes to Trump. I think, if absolutely forced to choose between Ukraine and Trump, he would ultimately choose Ukraine but he's clearly hoping it won't come to that.
🚨The Trump administration is considering ending all ongoing shipments of military aid to Ukraine in response to Zelensky’s remarks in the Oval Office on Friday and his perceived intransigence in the peace process, per senior administration official
Now that IS much more serious. That truly is music to Moscow ears.
That is the most shocking take out from today. 😧
Anyone think Trump hasn't been itching to manufacture an excuse to deliver this for his chum Putin?
🚨The Trump administration is considering ending all ongoing shipments of military aid to Ukraine in response to Zelensky’s remarks in the Oval Office on Friday and his perceived intransigence in the peace process, per senior administration official
Now that IS much more serious. That truly is music to Moscow ears.
It’s time for cool heads and to remember that the US and Ukraine are on the same side.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy has led his people heroically for three years against completely unprovoked aggression from Russia.
The bravery of the Ukrainians has been amazing. Their suffering has been appalling.
It is they who deserve our support and they who frankly deserve our respect.
The best way forward now is for the minerals deal to be signed as soon as possible. There is still a path to peace.
Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
What a pathetic man he is. He literally has no principles or views.
You should be far more concerned at Starmer’s silence this evening, when leaders across Europe and here the conservatives and lib dems have given full support to Zelensky
And I have asked you before, do you agree the invitation to Trump should be withdrawn?
Would you seriously withdraw it if you were PM?
It shouldn't have been offered in the first place, and is now a huge embarrassment that is likely to end up in the commons and may ultimately be withdrawn or certainly shelved
Good non answer to your own question. But if you were PM this evening, would you withdraw it this evening?
No of course not
That would just fan the flames but after today Trump is toxic and simply cannot be entertained by the King
It’s time for cool heads and to remember that the US and Ukraine are on the same side.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy has led his people heroically for three years against completely unprovoked aggression from Russia.
The bravery of the Ukrainians has been amazing. Their suffering has been appalling.
It is they who deserve our support and they who frankly deserve our respect.
The best way forward now is for the minerals deal to be signed as soon as possible. There is still a path to peace.
Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
What a pathetic man he is. He literally has no principles or views.
You should be far more concerned at Starmer’s silence this evening, when leaders across Europe and here the conservatives and lib dems have given full support to Zelensky
And I have asked you before, do you agree the invitation to Trump should be withdrawn?
It’s time for cool heads and to remember that the US and Ukraine are on the same side.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy has led his people heroically for three years against completely unprovoked aggression from Russia.
The bravery of the Ukrainians has been amazing. Their suffering has been appalling.
It is they who deserve our support and they who frankly deserve our respect.
The best way forward now is for the minerals deal to be signed as soon as possible. There is still a path to peace.
Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
What a pathetic man he is. He literally has no principles or views.
You should be far more concerned at Starmer’s silence this evening, when leaders across Europe and here the conservatives and lib dems have given full support to Zelensky
And I have asked you before, do you agree the invitation to Trump should be withdrawn?
Would you seriously withdraw it if you were PM?
It shouldn't have been offered in the first place, and is now a huge embarrassment that is likely to end up in the commons and may ultimately be withdrawn or certainly shelved
Good non answer to your own question. But if you were PM this evening, would you withdraw it this evening?
I would be having back channel conversations that suggest it is "very difficult for the King right now, and we can't embarrass His Majesty". Those kind of things specifically don't need to be said in public - as we have just seen.
Boris Johnson is a coward and a liar. It is embarrassing that anyone in the UK still holds him up as good.
Of course there are those that still actually support him but only pipe up about it when they fancy it. Normally they hope we forget.
Odd how they seem to be in force tonight…
And you are completely ignoring Starmer's silence and refusing to give your opinion on the invitation to Trump
And I repeat Zelensky is a huge Johnson fan and right now if you asked Zelensky what he thought of Starmer's silence you would not like the answer
Though, as @Scott_xP here, and Chris Mason on the Beeb just now have said, the PM has been talking to a great global leader and an orange toddler to try to find some way forward.
At least one of those conversations was a good reason not to go public just yet.
Maybe we should go back to one news bulletin a day.
I would rather he lowers the temperature than escalates for dramatic effect. We need to buy time.
We’re still all assuming Trump and his cabal are rational actors. They’re not. They need to get hardball treatment, as Canada has shown.
It took us 2 decades to realise that about Putin. Are we really going to make the same mistake again?
Sure, but there no sense in escalating now. The damage is done. We need to buy time.
No no no. Trump needs to feel the downsides if his actions. Otherwise it’s appeasement.
“Trump needs to feel the downsides if his actions”
Okay. What measures are you suggesting?
The state visit gets put on ice. The trade deal, one of the strategies of project 2025 to divide Britain from Europe, goes. We ally with France to form a truly independent nuclear deterrent. We fucking say one or two, you know, supportive things about Canada?
Unprecedented. Shocking. This public verbal spat, this haranguing in the White House of a visiting president is dramatic. Zelensky invited it by being argumentative instead of tactfully steering the exchange in a more positive direction. He has been lionised so much that he has developed an inordinate sense of entitlement. He has lectured European leaders and got away with it. It hasn’t worked with Trump and Vance.
The Indian clips on Youtube are always very anti-Ukrainian and pro-Russian.
Boris Johnson is a coward and a liar. It is embarrassing that anyone in the UK still holds him up as good.
Of course there are those that still actually support him but only pipe up about it when they fancy it. Normally they hope we forget.
Odd how they seem to be in force tonight…
Boris did the right thing initially when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022. His instincts on Russia and Putin, going back to Salisbury in 2018, are sound (which is more than can be said for Jezza and Nigel Farage)
Unfortunately, like a lot on the British right, he has a blind spot when it comes to Trump. I think, if absolutely forced to choose between Ukraine and Trump, he would ultimately choose Ukraine but he's clearly hoping it won't come to that.
I initially believed - and said so here - that Johnson’s one good move was backing Ukraine but in recent days he has completely thrown that away. So I conclude that like everything else, he doesn’t actually believe in anything and simply does what he thinks will get him votes. He is a snake.
🚨The Trump administration is considering ending all ongoing shipments of military aid to Ukraine in response to Zelensky’s remarks in the Oval Office on Friday and his perceived intransigence in the peace process, per senior administration official
Now that IS much more serious. That truly is music to Moscow ears.
That is the most shocking take out from today. 😧
People were openly speculating earlier in the week that the unpalatable deal was merely a ruse to justify stopping supporting Ukraine. That's looking quite plausible now. We will really know if things are as bad as feared if the US acts to thwart European support.
This should be Starmer's Merz moment - he should declare independence from the US. I hope he is already quietly winding down Five Eyes - no point in passing on intelligence to a power that might in turn pass it on to Russia.
It’s time for cool heads and to remember that the US and Ukraine are on the same side.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy has led his people heroically for three years against completely unprovoked aggression from Russia.
The bravery of the Ukrainians has been amazing. Their suffering has been appalling.
It is they who deserve our support and they who frankly deserve our respect.
The best way forward now is for the minerals deal to be signed as soon as possible. There is still a path to peace.
Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
What a pathetic man he is. He literally has no principles or views.
You should be far more concerned at Starmer’s silence this evening, when leaders across Europe and here the conservatives and lib dems have given full support to Zelensky
And I have asked you before, do you agree the invitation to Trump should be withdrawn?
Would you seriously withdraw it if you were PM?
By now, yes. Trump’s USA is an enemy to the West.
How long before the USA starts arming Russia ? And yes this is now a serious question .
It's hard to know exactly what an appropriate response to this is in relation to the USA, but I do know one thing: the meeting of European leaders this Sunday could not have had a clearer impetus.
If they collectively bottle taking decisive measures to allow Europe to stand alone in defence within 3-5 years, including defending Ukraine to the extent that we are capable of doing so, starting Monday, every single one of them deserves to be thrown out of office.
If things weren't clear before, they surely are now.
Unfortunately Germany won't be in a position to promise increased defence spending because that utter shit Merz refused to talk about reforming the debt brake on any of the dozen times the outgoing government asked him to consider it over the last year or more.
Whether something can be done before the new parliament (that has a 1 third blocking minority AfD plus die Linke) convenes isn't certain. Today die Linke threatened to go to the constitutional court if an attempt is made using the old parliament.
But you know there are historical reasons Germany is reticent to get involved in war in Ukraine. Why don’t you just be honest and explain to us that you understand that, rather than hide behind those reasons in your criticism of Merz?
Huh? Should I bother answering this? I'll just say your reply to me doesn't address anything I wrote in any way whatsoever and leave it at that.
UK journalism often refers to this German reticence - should we ignore it when UK journalists do this? Or is it a real thing, the sound of German language in Ukraine winds up Pro Russia Ukrainians or something? It’s not all about 2nd WW? is it first WW or prior to that?
What's it got to do with the German constitutional debt brake?
You seem reticent to explain there is or isn’t this reticence thing to us - why?
I was talking about the debt brake - which is why I ask you what your comments have to do with the debt brake?
But on the issue of sensitivity in Germany around German military involvement in Ukraine (and elsewhere) for historical reasons, I'm sure you can figure it out. I'll give you one hint - @JosiasJessop is an idiot.
Comments
But the base turned on Zelensky when instructed.
Trump's America is Putin's toy and nothing else matters.
The hard bit is what to do next. Over to you, Prime Minister.
https://x.com/RepDonBacon/status/1895562320048537758?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet
Possibly cancel Z’s visit to UK this Sunday so as not to wind up the White House. Let things cool. I view yesterday as a flop, a pass the sick bag flop, as there has only been one thing to sort out all week, security grantees from USA to Ukraine to enable Z to sign the minerals deal, Starmer came back without that, so yesterday was a huge flop, a whole lot of nothing achieved. It meant Z turned up today to honestly say I’m not signing without security grantees, and the Trump Administration went ballistic.
At the time we were transferring $200bn (2024 prices) worth of gold bullion to the USA to pay for weapons in Operation Fish as - all Western European countries having defaulted or tried to default on WW1 debt - they were only taking portable wealth.
The UK was functionally bankrupt, so I don't guess he had a lot of option,
If Trump does audit Fort Knox, there could be 1500 tons of gold with Bank of England stamps on it !
Almost 20 European leaders, incl Emmanuel Marcon & Friedrich Merz, plus VDL, have posted in support of @ZelenskyyUa after White House showdown.
Notably, Keir Starmer has not. No 10 is referring reporters to PM’s comments this week on a just & lasting peace, with Ukraine at heart of talks.
@jamesomalley.co.uk
This risks being a Rishi-on-D-Day moment I think.
So this is their kill-Reform strategy, I assume. From a domestic politics point of view it makes sense. Must be uncomfortable for MAGA-aligned politicians in the ranks, but they’re all at it. Kemi, Jenrick, IDS, Cleverly. Quite a brave tactical decision.
That is not a conversation that needed to happen in front of the cameras - this helps nobody in the West.
It is clear that Britain needs a far stronger, a far bigger, and a far more powerful military.
Our Armed Forces have been neglected for too long. That must now change.
Diplomacy, alliances, democracy - all depend on good faith and honest disagreement. If UKGov caves to this kind of bullying and gangsterism, and fails to condemn it, we will be complicit in bringing it all down.
No doubt there we will be people saying it is hyperbole and we aren't there yet and I'm overreacting and I'm just a pant wetting liberal, but...
I also remember an excellent paper that the right wing think-tank Politeia published 20-odd years ago about what might happen if America goes rogue/isolationist. I should dig it out and give it a read, but I'm fairly certain it didn't posit an America.that allied itself to a Russian kleptocracy.
Had they been colonised by the Russians or Japanese they wouldn't be so indifferent to Ukraine's suffering.
The Napoleon meets Wellington scene was an out take from Blackadder, as a far as I can work out.
Personally I am no enthusiast for Napoleon. But he had charisma and drive and millions followed him. The Napoleon depicted in the film reminds me of the old military joke - “His men will not follow him. Even out of curiosity.”
And i think he is going to fuck it up
It’s time for cool heads and to remember that the US and Ukraine are on the same side.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy has led his people heroically for three years against completely unprovoked aggression from Russia.
The bravery of the Ukrainians has been amazing. Their suffering has been appalling.
It is they who deserve our support and they who frankly deserve our respect.
The best way forward now is for the minerals deal to be signed as soon as possible. There is still a path to peace.
Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
Seriously, this is the point everyone needs to understand. This is exactly how he thinks.
Every day is a new episode.
Today was the "We break up with Ukraine" episode.
Tomorrow might well be "We make up with Ukraine" and there's lovely bit at the end where we walk on the sands together at one of my golf clubs. With Carpenters music.
About to be run down by a Tesla.
Everything that Trump and Vance said was both rude and disrespectful.
BoZo has indeed written two statements in a single Tweet.
Twat
We sometimes get asked why we talk about Donald Trump as though he is a criminal moron with various personality disorders. The answer is, of course, that we do it because he is a criminal moron with various personality disorders.
It took us 2 decades to realise that about Putin. Are we really going to make the same mistake again?
I still hold with what I said yesterday. Starmer should have told Trump to go fuck himself. Even better if he had used those exact words.
And I have asked you before, do you agree the invitation to Trump should be withdrawn?
Also, on nominative determinism, from rolling the pitch, there was a very formidable lawnmower with a multi 100kg powered roller in the 1960s and 1970s called a Brott.
I used to mow an acre of grass with it when I was a lad. It was a flail mower that used to be capable of throwing half-bricks out of the back.
Piccie (tomorrow's quota):
and a video:
https://youtu.be/ELdDXZ01Z2A?t=231
Of course there are those that still actually support him but only pipe up about it when they fancy it. Normally they hope we forget.
Odd how they seem to be in force tonight…
🚨The Trump administration is considering ending all ongoing shipments of military aid to Ukraine in response to Zelensky’s remarks in the Oval Office on Friday and his perceived intransigence in the peace process, per senior administration official
And I repeat Zelensky is a huge Johnson fan and right now if you asked Zelensky what he thought of Starmer's silence you would not like the answer
That is the most shocking take out from today. 😧
Nevertheless, I don't think his replies were strategic as David implies. I think they were just an honest, incredulous, furious response to being lectured on diplomacy by a complete fuckwit.
Okay. What measures are you suggesting?
I’m doing a 2 day conference in Mexico City in April. I’ll probably have a day or two around it to explore. I’ve not been to Mexico City before, so what should I see while I’m there?
Unfortunately, like a lot on the British right, he has a blind spot when it comes to Trump. I think, if absolutely forced to choose between Ukraine and Trump, he would ultimately choose Ukraine but he's clearly hoping it won't come to that.
I mean - really.
He's so fucking transparent.
Cool heads, accept the old world is gone and we are not yet ready for the new world, buy time.
Trump is Putin's trojan horse.
That would just fan the flames but after today Trump is toxic and simply cannot be entertained by the King
Ultimately the invitation will not happen
At least one of those conversations was a good reason not to go public just yet.
Maybe we should go back to one news bulletin a day.
We need to buy time.
I hope he is already quietly winding down Five Eyes - no point in passing on intelligence to a power that might in turn pass it on to Russia.
But on the issue of sensitivity in Germany around German military involvement in Ukraine (and elsewhere) for historical reasons, I'm sure you can figure it out. I'll give you one hint - @JosiasJessop is an idiot.
Trump is obviously going for "regime change" on behalf of Putin.