politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Marf on the eve of the big gathering in Paris

System · January 2015

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Marf on the eve of the big gathering in Paris

Politicalbetting's cartoonist, Marf, on the latest from France pic.twitter.com/yRwcazf2jk

fitalass · January 2015

First

Indigo · January 2015

Unity march including the elected representatives of three quarters of the population, its a start I suppose....

I dont remotely approve of FNs policies or aims, but the fact remains they were elected by people, and are likely to be elected by a lot more people next time. This is the sort of "no platform" idiocy I was talking about earlier, not letting them on the march doesnt make them go away, and gives them a grievance to whip up their supporters and capture new voters. If they behave shamelessly or like idiots on a solemn occasion, the people will see it and their vote will suffer for it. Democracy will work as it should.

Alistair · January 2015

Indigo said:
Unity march including the elected representatives of three quarters of the population, its a start I suppose....

I dont remotely approve of FNs policies or aims, but the fact remains they were elected by people, and are likely to be elected by a lot more people next time. This is the sort of "no platform" idiocy I was talking about earlier, not letting them on the march doesnt make them go away, and gives them a grievance to whip up their supporters and capture new voters. If they behave shamelessly or like idiots on a solemn occasion, the people will see it and their vote will suffer for it. Democracy will work as it should.

I thought that FN had explicitly said there were not in unity.

Indigo · January 2015

Alistair said:

Indigo said:
Unity march including the elected representatives of three quarters of the population, its a start I suppose....

I dont remotely approve of FNs policies or aims, but the fact remains they were elected by people, and are likely to be elected by a lot more people next time. This is the sort of "no platform" idiocy I was talking about earlier, not letting them on the march doesnt make them go away, and gives them a grievance to whip up their supporters and capture new voters. If they behave shamelessly or like idiots on a solemn occasion, the people will see it and their vote will suffer for it. Democracy will work as it should.
I thought that FN had explicitly said there were not in unity.

I dont know. They are certainly complaining about being excluded from the march. I never think its good politics to give people a grievance to parade. If they are taking the p155, the voters will soon rumble them.

Sean_F · January 2015

A dreadful letter to The Times, from Peter Temple-Morris

"Elements of the Press, exulting in their democratic freedoms, treat immigrants by our own standards and publish smug cartoons insulting all they have which is what they believe in. I do not take sides but we asked for trouble and we are getting it. If Jesus was portrayed in the way of these cartoons, I would hate it but I can take it. They can't."

The bleat of the coward and appeaser across the centuries.

tlg86 · January 2015

I'm not sure if this true but there's some interesting things in this article:

http://www.connexionfrance.com/france-front-national-charlie-hebdo-front-national-marine-le-pen-16528-view-article.html

If the events had happened in Britain and there was a similar event then I suspect that Mr Farage would not be welcome.

RodCrosby · January 2015

Apparently, Hollande first banned them, then said "anyone can turn up", but stipulated Le Pen would not be on the podium, etc, along with the other VIPs...

So she gave him the finger.

tlg86 · January 2015

RodCrosby said:
Apparently, Hollande first banned them, then said "anyone can turn up", but stipulated Le Pen would not be on the podium, etc, along with the other VIPs...

So she gave him the finger.

Perhaps France's version of OFCOM should give a ruling on who should and shouldn't be allowed on the podium....

Theuniondivvie · January 2015

Alistair said:

Indigo said:
Unity march including the elected representatives of three quarters of the population, its a start I suppose....

I dont remotely approve of FNs policies or aims, but the fact remains they were elected by people, and are likely to be elected by a lot more people next time. This is the sort of "no platform" idiocy I was talking about earlier, not letting them on the march doesnt make them go away, and gives them a grievance to whip up their supporters and capture new voters. If they behave shamelessly or like idiots on a solemn occasion, the people will see it and their vote will suffer for it. Democracy will work as it should.
I thought that FN had explicitly said there were not in unity.

Did Jean Marie say 'Je ne suis pas Charlie' before or after the exclusion? If the former, the FN are being a bit tittish moaning about it.

Gadfly · January 2015

There is uncensored footage on YouTube of the final moments of yesterday's supermarket siege. The forces rapidly fire their guns into the supermarket through its door for 23 seconds before Coulibaly runs towards them and meets his fate.

It appears to be an absolute miracle that many hostages were not killed during this hail of fire.

Paul_Mid_Beds · January 2015

LogicalSong said:

FalseFlag said:

LogicalSong said:

Sean_F said:

GIN1138 said:

RodCrosby said:
10.50 BREAKING Former leader of France's far-right 'Front National' party Jean-Marie Le Pen has declared 'I am not Charlie'
...
He said: "Today it's 'we are all Charlie, I am Charlie'. And frankly, I'm sorry, I am not Charlie. And while I am touched by the deaths of a dozen French compatriots with whom I did not share the same political identity, this I know well, they were enemies of the Front Nationale who had demanded the dissolution of the party not long ago."
Controversial....

An interesting thought experiment is to envisage the reaction if the gunmen had massacred 12 people at the FN headquarters, rather than at a left-wing magazine.

I suspect that among the authorities and opinion formers, the response would be a good deal more equivocal.

No it wouldn't.
That would be why the Front Nationals is being excluded from the day of unity.

Anyway we all remember the media reaction to the murder of Pim Fortuyn by a leftist.
Do you honestly think that the inclusion of the Front National would be appropriate for a 'day of unity'.

Yes of course it would. They are a legal political party with 25% of the vote. They may be to illiberal for many peoples sensibilities but if they are excluded it makes a mockery of the idea of France being a free speech democracy.

I suspect if the FN were really a bunch of hardline nazis with a paramilitary wing bringing violence and fear to France like the SA did in Germany in the 1920s they would probably be appeased and invited.

The sad truth is that if it had been say a monastery attacked with several monks killed rather than a group of fashionable lefties, there would have been far less outrage. After all, murderous attacks on Christians is one thing, murderous attacks on Liberal or Communist Secularists is quite another

CarlottaVance · January 2015

Indigo said:

Alistair said:

Indigo said:
Unity march including the elected representatives of three quarters of the population, its a start I suppose....

I dont remotely approve of FNs policies or aims, but the fact remains they were elected by people, and are likely to be elected by a lot more people next time. This is the sort of "no platform" idiocy I was talking about earlier, not letting them on the march doesnt make them go away, and gives them a grievance to whip up their supporters and capture new voters. If they behave shamelessly or like idiots on a solemn occasion, the people will see it and their vote will suffer for it. Democracy will work as it should.
I thought that FN had explicitly said there were not in unity.
I dont know. They are certainly complaining about being excluded from the march. I never think its good politics to give people a grievance to parade. If they are taking the p155, the voters will soon rumble them.

It looks like Le Pen has taken the opportunity to take offence at not being formally invited:

The party’s leader, Marine Le Pen, complained of being banned, or at least not formally invited, to Sunday’s march.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/10/french-unity-terrorism-paris-march-charlie-hebdo

Oh and for the 'its a pity Muslim countries haven't criticised the Paris massacre' crowd:

Jakarta. Indonesia has condemned an attack on the offices of a French satirical weekly in Paris on Wednesday that left 12 people dead, and expressed its support of the French government’s attempts to bring the perpetrators to justice.

“The Indonesian government would like to express its deepest condolences to the government and people of France, especially to the victims’ families, because no act of violence can be justified,” the Foreign Affairs Ministry said in a statement on Thursday

http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/news/indonesia-condemns-slayings-french-weekly-supports-call-justice/

Indigo · January 2015

Theuniondivvie said:

Alistair said:

Indigo said:
Unity march including the elected representatives of three quarters of the population, its a start I suppose....

I dont remotely approve of FNs policies or aims, but the fact remains they were elected by people, and are likely to be elected by a lot more people next time. This is the sort of "no platform" idiocy I was talking about earlier, not letting them on the march doesnt make them go away, and gives them a grievance to whip up their supporters and capture new voters. If they behave shamelessly or like idiots on a solemn occasion, the people will see it and their vote will suffer for it. Democracy will work as it should.
I thought that FN had explicitly said there were not in unity.
Did Jean Marie say 'Je ne suis pas Charlie' before or after the exclusion? If the former, the FN are being a bit tittish moaning about it.

That would be like banning the SNP because of something Winnie Ewing said

dr_spyn · January 2015

Apologies if linked earlier.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-30763534

Tory problems on IOW.

JohnLilburne · January 2015

tlg86 said:
I'm not sure if this true but there's some interesting things in this article:

http://www.connexionfrance.com/france-front-national-charlie-hebdo-front-national-marine-le-pen-16528-view-article.html

If the events had happened in Britain and there was a similar event then I suspect that Mr Farage would not be welcome.

Not sure why. His "fifth column" comments have attracted widespread criticism although, as far as I can see, they were completely justified.

Indigo · January 2015

JohnLilburne said:

tlg86 said:
I'm not sure if this true but there's some interesting things in this article:

http://www.connexionfrance.com/france-front-national-charlie-hebdo-front-national-marine-le-pen-16528-view-article.html

If the events had happened in Britain and there was a similar event then I suspect that Mr Farage would not be welcome.
Not sure why. His "fifth column" comments have attracted widespread criticism although, as far as I can see, they were completely justified.

Because if you are a politician, the only thing worse than opponent is an opponent that is right! Especially if he has said something that chimes with the public and you can't be seen to agree.

Paul_Mid_Beds · January 2015

JohnLilburne said:

tlg86 said:
I'm not sure if this true but there's some interesting things in this article:

http://www.connexionfrance.com/france-front-national-charlie-hebdo-front-national-marine-le-pen-16528-view-article.html

If the events had happened in Britain and there was a similar event then I suspect that Mr Farage would not be welcome.
Not sure why. His "fifth column" comments have attracted widespread criticism although, as far as I can see, they were completely justified.

Hence the reason for the widespread criticism - pointing out the emperors nakedness.

tlg86 · January 2015

Paul_Mid_Beds said:
The sad truth is that if it had been say a monastery attacked with several monks killed rather than a group of fashionable lefties, there would have been far less outrage. After all, murderous attacks on Christians is one thing, murderous attacks on Liberal or Communist Secularists is quite another

I think there's a lot of truth in this. If those cartoons had come from the FN then there would be far less sympathy.

Morris_Dancer · January 2015

Good evening, everyone.

Bloody awful weather today.

isam · January 2015

JohnLilburne said:

tlg86 said:
I'm not sure if this true but there's some interesting things in this article:

http://www.connexionfrance.com/france-front-national-charlie-hebdo-front-national-marine-le-pen-16528-view-article.html

If the events had happened in Britain and there was a similar event then I suspect that Mr Farage would not be welcome.
Not sure why. His "fifth column" comments have attracted widespread criticism although, as far as I can see, they were completely justified.

Because he is the only party leader who dares say things that might upset anyone... and that makes him more like the general public than the others who only ever offer vacuous soundbites

Stereotomy · January 2015

ZenPagan said:

Stereotomy said:

Indigo said:

There is precisely no point in having freedoms you dont use, at least from time to time, and there is even less point in the government "granting" freedoms and then not supporting you using them.

Many jurisdictions have the idea of "sleeping on your rights" or "statutes of repose" where by if you dont exercise a right within a given timeframe, you lose that right. This is the same sort of idea, only a cultural one, if someone doesn't occasionally exert their right to be profoundly offensive, people will soon forget that they have such a right. If someone isn't seriously offended from time to time they will assume they have a right to not be offended, and they dont.

In medieval times there was the concept of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beating_the_bounds, in which on an annual basis the inhabitants of a village visited all the boundaries of their land, to establish common knowledge of those bounds, and to prevent the encroachment of neighbours, some times those neighbours will have moved those boundary markers and they would need putting back.

It is important that we beat the boundaries of our rights and our culture regularly, or we will forget where they are, the neighbours will encroach and move the cultural markers, and soon we will find our cultural and legal real estate rather smaller than we remembered, and it will be too late to do anything about it.
But to spread or display the cartoons right now will inevitably be seen as a reaction to the attacks. Nobody's going to buy that you've picked this particular form of "beating" just after the attacks as a sheer coincidence.

It's not that I have anything against spreading the cartoons, or any display of freedom of speech in the face of religious offense.,But doing it with the obvious motive of showing defiance in the face of terrorism implicitly buys into the idea that the attackers represented the much wider group of people who might find those images offensive or disturbing. It's helping the attackers to achieve what they wanted: making those cartoons be the dividing line which separates "us" from "them".
And not showing them sends a clear message to the terrorists "Your violence has cowed us into submission"

Going out of your way to avoid showing them where you would have if it weren't for terrorist attacks/threats? Yes, I agree absolutely. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about showing them for the sole purpose of sending a message of defiance.

JohnLilburne · January 2015

Morris_Dancer said:
Good evening, everyone.

Bloody awful weather today.

Here it held off for parkrun today and didn't get horrible until I was sitting in the cafe having a fry-up.

Luckyguy1983 · January 2015

Osborne hints at putting the snoopers charter back on the agenda: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11334923/George-Osborne-hints-at-bringing-back-Snoopers-Charter-after-Paris-attack.html

Despite the two attackers being known to the French authorities, who deemed them 'low risk' 6 months ago. Just as Lee Rigby's attackers were known.

These people never give up do they? Every human tragedy is another opportunity to add to their arsenal of Orwellian powers.

Morris_Dancer · January 2015

Mr. Lilburne, it's been ghastly most of the day. Gales, driving rain, lane littered with large branches, and at least one tree creaking like it'll topple in the near future.

The hound has also been unimpressed by the elements.

Mr. Stereotomy, when the choices are defiance and appeasement, I'd prefer the former.

Sunil_Prasannan · January 2015

Nice cartoon, Marf!

We are all cartoonists now!

Morris_Dancer · January 2015

Mr. 1983, we can only save a free and liberal society by having the state observe everything we ever do.

Pulpstar · January 2015

Very windy out on the bike today !

Luckyguy1983 · January 2015

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. 1983, we can only save a free and liberal society by having the state observe everything we ever do.

I strongly disagree.

Morris_Dancer · January 2015

Mr. 1983, there was a teensy bit of sarcasm in my previous post

A_Man_Called_Horse · January 2015

All the 'Snooper's Charter' will do is make the haystack of (useless) intelligence all the bigger. Nick Clegg should not back down in his opposition.

JohnLilburne · January 2015

Luckyguy1983 said:
Osborne hints at putting the snoopers charter back on the agenda: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11334923/George-Osborne-hints-at-bringing-back-Snoopers-Charter-after-Paris-attack.html

Despite the two attackers being known to the French authorities, who deemed them 'low risk' 6 months ago. Just as Lee Rigby's attackers were known.

These people never give up do they? Every human tragedy is another opportunity to add to their arsenal of Orwellian powers.

What I don't understand about the Lee Rigby case was that one of the killers was apparently dealing drugs. MI5 didn't think he was a big enough security threat to monitor him, but why didn't they take the opportunity to shop him to the Plod and have him taken off the streets?

JackW · January 2015

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Lilburne, it's been ghastly most of the day. Gales, driving rain, lane littered with large branches, and at least one tree creaking like it'll topple in the near future.

Stephen Fry and his bloody engagement ....

Tsk ....

Alanbrooke · January 2015

Luckyguy1983 said:
Osborne hints at putting the snoopers charter back on the agenda: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11334923/George-Osborne-hints-at-bringing-back-Snoopers-Charter-after-Paris-attack.html

Despite the two attackers being known to the French authorities, who deemed them 'low risk' 6 months ago. Just as Lee Rigby's attackers were known.

These people never give up do they? Every human tragedy is another opportunity to add to their arsenal of Orwellian powers.

Osborne really is dross.

JackW · January 2015

Pulpstar said:
Very windy out on the bike today !

Better out than in and the exercise was also good for you.

HYUFD · January 2015

Calum MalcolmG Indigo (previous thread) Of course Scottish Tories will vote Labour in a constituency where the alternative is the SNP at Holyrood, while also voting Tory for the regional list, as they get in the habit they may well also start voting Labour at Westminster too to keep the SNP out, most Scottish Tories don't mind Murphy, even when they disagree with him, but they loathe Sturgeon and Salmond

Luckyguy1983 · January 2015

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. 1983, there was a teensy bit of sarcasm in my previous post

Sorry. Severe irony deficiency on my part.

isam · January 2015

Who said this earlier in the week?

"...everybody who comes to work in our economy, should be able to speak English.”

He stressed this applied in particular to people working in public services such as the NHS

“I’m amazed by reports that people cannot make themselves understood in English in this country to people working in the NHS. That is completely wrong,” he added.

He urged NHS managers to “take steps” to ensure that NHS doctors and nurses from abroad can speak English sufficiently well to communicate with patients. "

Morris_Dancer · January 2015

Mr. 1983, np, it's very easy to miss irony/sarcasm online (or to write it too subtly/badly to be obvious).

Mr. Brooke, whilst I don't share your entirely negative view of Osborne generally, this move would be (or is, if it goes ahead) contemptible.

We should be repealing laws that restrict freedom of speech and RIPA, not giving police ever more powers and ever more data, which they then lack the resources to sift through properly.

Luckyguy1983 · January 2015

isam said:
Who said this earlier in the week?

"...everybody who comes to work in our economy, should be able to speak English.”

He stressed this applied in particular to people working in public services such as the NHS

“I’m amazed by reports that people cannot make themselves understood in English in this country to people working in the NHS. That is completely wrong,” he added.

He urged NHS managers to “take steps” to ensure that NHS doctors and nurses from abroad can speak English sufficiently well to communicate with patients. "

Flightpath?

bondegezou · January 2015

HYUFD said:
Calum MalcolmG Indigo (previous thread) Of course Scottish Tories will vote Labour in a constituency where the alternative is the SNP at Holyrood, while also voting Tory for the regional list, as they get in the habit they may well also start voting Labour at Westminster too to keep the SNP out

Is there any point voting tactically in the constituency component of the Scottish Parliament election? Doesn't the regional list component smooth everything out? An additional constituency seat for the SNP or Labour just means one less regional seat: no different in the total number of seats.

Theuniondivvie · January 2015

A thoughtful piece in the New Yorker on the Paris massacre, though not to everyone's taste I imagine.

'Unmournable Bodies
By Teju Cole

..Western societies are not, even now, the paradise of skepticism and rationalism that they believe themselves to be. The West is a variegated space, in which both freedom of thought and tightly regulated speech exist, and in which disavowals of deadly violence happen at the same time as clandestine torture. But, at moments when Western societies consider themselves under attack, the discourse is quickly dominated by an ahistorical fantasy of long-suffering serenity and fortitude in the face of provocation. Yet European and American history are so strongly marked by efforts to control speech that the persecution of rebellious thought must be considered among the foundational buttresses of these societies. Witch burnings, heresy trials, and the untiring work of the Inquisition shaped Europe, and these ideas extended into American history as well and took on American modes, from the breaking of slaves to the censuring of critics of Operation Iraqi Freedom...'

http://tinyurl.com/khgw458

GIN1138 · January 2015

Any polls die this evening? Will be interesting to see what damage debategate has done.

AndyJS · January 2015

Peter Temple-Morris has always been a deeply unimpressive individual and his cowardice on this issue is no surprise.

For example, defecting to Labour in a seat which registered the party's lowest vote in the country at the 1983 election showed total contempt for his electorate.

Sean_F said:
A dreadful letter to The Times, from Peter Temple-Morris

"Elements of the Press, exulting in their democratic freedoms, treat immigrants by our own standards and publish smug cartoons insulting all they have which is what they believe in. I do not take sides but we asked for trouble and we are getting it. If Jesus was portrayed in the way of these cartoons, I would hate it but I can take it. They can't."

The bleat of the coward and appeaser across the centuries.

Sunil_Prasannan · January 2015

GIN1138 said:
Any polls due this evening? Will be interesting to see what damage debategate has done.

Labour lead of only 0.9% in ELBOW so far (7 polls this week so far) - or 1.1% on the simple average - take your pick

GIN1138 · January 2015

Sean_F said:
A dreadful letter to The Times, from Peter Temple-Morris

"Elements of the Press, exulting in their democratic freedoms, treat immigrants by our own standards and publish smug cartoons insulting all they have which is what they believe in. I do not take sides but we asked for trouble and we are getting it. If Jesus was portrayed in the way of these cartoons, I would hate it but I can take it. They can't."

Is that genuine or a spoof?

bondegezou · January 2015

Theuniondivvie said:
A thoughtful piece in the New Yorker on the Paris massacre, though not to everyone's taste I imagine.

[...]

http://tinyurl.com/khgw458

Thanks. Interesting article.

Sean_F · January 2015

isam said:
Who said this earlier in the week?

"...everybody who comes to work in our economy, should be able to speak English.”

He stressed this applied in particular to people working in public services such as the NHS

“I’m amazed by reports that people cannot make themselves understood in English in this country to people working in the NHS. That is completely wrong,” he added.

He urged NHS managers to “take steps” to ensure that NHS doctors and nurses from abroad can speak English sufficiently well to communicate with patients. "

Nick Griffin?

AndyJS · January 2015

Knowing the person in question, it's definitely genuine.

The worst thing about it is he doesn't realise how patronising he's being towards ordinary Muslims. They're like children to him, who have to have excuses made for them because they haven't reached the same level of sophistication as the likes of himself.

GIN1138 said:

Sean_F said:
A dreadful letter to The Times, from Peter Temple-Morris

"Elements of the Press, exulting in their democratic freedoms, treat immigrants by our own standards and publish smug cartoons insulting all they have which is what they believe in. I do not take sides but we asked for trouble and we are getting it. If Jesus was portrayed in the way of these cartoons, I would hate it but I can take it. They can't."

Is that genuine or a spoof?

Morris_Dancer · January 2015

Mr. JS:
"...exulting in their democratic freedoms..."

Those bastards!

Mr. Divvie, the number of burnt witches is, I believe, grossly exaggerated. Similarly, the Inquisition (Spanish, not Dragon Age) was centuries ago. By that logic I could say that the Italians were a bit harsh, what with all their crucifying people and slavery.

I fail to see the relevance of comparing men of the 21st century with the violent doings of the 14th.

TheScreamingEagles · January 2015

A reputable source has told me that the only polling we are getting tonight will be the YouGov for the Sunday Times

HYUFD · January 2015

3/4 of Britons would refuse to fight for their country, albeit with a professional army now and the likelihood we are not going to be threatened by invasion by France or Germany again anytime soon they do not need to
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/three-quarters-british-people-would-refuse-fight-their-country-1482801

Sunil_Prasannan · January 2015

isam said:
Who said this earlier in the week?

"...everybody who comes to work in our economy, should be able to speak English.”

He stressed this applied in particular to people working in public services such as the NHS

“I’m amazed by reports that people cannot make themselves understood in English in this country to people working in the NHS. That is completely wrong,” he added.

He urged NHS managers to “take steps” to ensure that NHS doctors and nurses from abroad can speak English sufficiently well to communicate with patients. "

Boris!

AndyJS · January 2015

Labour majority down to two seats with UKPR:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

jayfdee · January 2015

Morris_Dancer said:
Good evening, everyone.

Bloody awful weather today.

Absolutely foul up here,the Fells are a no go area today.
Hail and strong winds,we are used to strong winds here as we get the unique Helm wind,but last night was worse than the Helm.

Flightpath · January 2015

Sean_F said:

isam said:
Who said this earlier in the week?

"...everybody who comes to work in our economy, should be able to speak English.”

He stressed this applied in particular to people working in public services such as the NHS

“I’m amazed by reports that people cannot make themselves understood in English in this country to people working in the NHS. That is completely wrong,” he added.

He urged NHS managers to “take steps” to ensure that NHS doctors and nurses from abroad can speak English sufficiently well to communicate with patients. "

Nick Griffin?

Why should we expect Nick Griffin to talk sense?

isam · January 2015

Sunil_Prasannan said:

isam said:
Who said this earlier in the week?

"...everybody who comes to work in our economy, should be able to speak English.”

He stressed this applied in particular to people working in public services such as the NHS

“I’m amazed by reports that people cannot make themselves understood in English in this country to people working in the NHS. That is completely wrong,” he added.

He urged NHS managers to “take steps” to ensure that NHS doctors and nurses from abroad can speak English sufficiently well to communicate with patients. "

Boris!

Yes!

Farage's Echo

malcolmg · January 2015

Morris_Dancer said:
Good evening, everyone.

Bloody awful weather today.

Been horrendous here last two days, had every season today with very strong winds, it has howled last two nights , seriously bad weather.

AlastairMeeks · January 2015

It's adventurous of both Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson to advocate getting rid of any healthcare workers at present, given the current pressures on the health system. Still, we apparently live in an age where the best is allowed to be the enemy of the good in pursuit of votes.

Sunil_Prasannan · January 2015

TheScreamingEagles said:
A reputable source has told me that the only polling we are getting tonight will be the YouGov for the Sunday Times

Hmmm... in that case only 8 polls during the first week of an election year.

GIN1138 · January 2015

TheScreamingEagles said:
A reputable source has told me that the only polling we are getting tonight will be the YouGov for the Sunday Times

OK, so we're digging in for a late one waiting for sign's from YouGov?

Coffee and Ferrero Rocher on stand-bye!

isam · January 2015

antifrank said:
It's adventurous of both Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson to advocate getting rid of any healthcare workers at present, given the current pressures on the health system. Still, we apparently live in an age where the best is allowed to be the enemy of the good in pursuit of votes.

Glad you are not my lawyer if you can misread like that

HYUFD · January 2015

'American football star Colin Kaepernick – quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers – has a Twitter page, via which he engages with more than 700,000 fans. And in its biography section, he quotes the words that have inspired him most throughout his life. Followers of British politics will find them curiously familiar. Because the words are: “Do not underestimate the determination of a quiet man.” Mr Kaepernick, 27, attributes this stirring maxim to one “Iain Smith”.'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11335967/From-Colin-Kaepernick-to-Lady-Gaga-they-cant-get-enough-of-Iain-Ducan-Smith-in-the-States.html

Morris_Dancer · January 2015

Mr. G, my sympathies. Whilst it's been horrid here, I know it's been even worse in many parts of Scotland.

Mr. Dee, the Helm wind?

AlastairMeeks · January 2015

isam said:

antifrank said:
It's adventurous of both Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson to advocate getting rid of any healthcare workers at present, given the current pressures on the health system. Still, we apparently live in an age where the best is allowed to be the enemy of the good in pursuit of votes.
Glad you are not my lawyer if you can misread like that

Ah I see. Once again Nigel Farage wants to get angry about something without having any solution or wanting to make any concession to hard reality. Par for the course.

GIN1138 · January 2015

jayfdee said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Good evening, everyone.

Bloody awful weather today.
Absolutely foul up here,the Fells are a no go area today.
Hail and strong winds,we are used to strong winds here as we get the unique Helm wind,but last night was worse than the Helm.

Could be worse. Could have easterly winds driving in sub-zero air and heavy snow from the Urals.

Looks like another winter may pass us by without any freezing weather...

Flightpath · January 2015

Theuniondivvie said:
A thoughtful piece in the New Yorker on the Paris massacre, though not to everyone's taste I imagine.

'Unmournable Bodies
By Teju Cole

..Western societies are not, even now, the paradise of skepticism and rationalism that they believe themselves to be. The West is a variegated space, in which both freedom of thought and tightly regulated speech exist, and in which disavowals of deadly violence happen at the same time as clandestine torture. But, at moments when Western societies consider themselves under attack, the discourse is quickly dominated by an ahistorical fantasy of long-suffering serenity and fortitude in the face of provocation. Yet European and American history are so strongly marked by efforts to control speech that the persecution of rebellious thought must be considered among the foundational buttresses of these societies. Witch burnings, heresy trials, and the untiring work of the Inquisition shaped Europe, and these ideas extended into American history as well and took on American modes, from the breaking of slaves to the censuring of critics of Operation Iraqi Freedom...'

http://tinyurl.com/khgw458

Thoughtful maybe - but the periods he talks about are medieval. We have evolved out of that. Unfortunately the process of evolution was at the price of massive massive loss of life.

Sean_F · January 2015

GIN1138 said:

Sean_F said:
A dreadful letter to The Times, from Peter Temple-Morris

"Elements of the Press, exulting in their democratic freedoms, treat immigrants by our own standards and publish smug cartoons insulting all they have which is what they believe in. I do not take sides but we asked for trouble and we are getting it. If Jesus was portrayed in the way of these cartoons, I would hate it but I can take it. They can't."

Is that genuine or a spoof?

Genuine, unfortunately.

TheScreamingEagles · January 2015

antifrank said:
It's adventurous of both Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson to advocate getting rid of any healthcare workers at present, given the current pressures on the health system. Still, we apparently live in an age where the best is allowed to be the enemy of the good in pursuit of votes.

The full Boris quotes were unlike Farage's.

Even the Guardian acknowledged that

He stopped short of echoing Farage’s suggestion that public service staff, particularly those working in the NHS, should show they can speak English. But Johnson said he was amazed by reports that some NHS staff could not make themselves understood in English.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/06/boris-johnson-multi-culty-balkanisation-uk-english-speaking-nhs

isam · January 2015

antifrank said:

isam said:

antifrank said:
It's adventurous of both Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson to advocate getting rid of any healthcare workers at present, given the current pressures on the health system. Still, we apparently live in an age where the best is allowed to be the enemy of the good in pursuit of votes.
Glad you are not my lawyer if you can misread like that
Ah I see. Once again Nigel Farage wants to get angry about something without having any solution or wanting to make any concession to hard reality. Par for the course.

Ah no you don't see!

Farage does have a solution... no tuition fees for medical students, and I don't see where either "advocate getting rid of any healthcare workers "

Dear dear

TheScreamingEagles · January 2015

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
A reputable source has told me that the only polling we are getting tonight will be the YouGov for the Sunday Times
OK, so we're digging in for a late one waiting for sign's from YouGov?

Coffee and Ferrero Rocher on stand-bye!

In the last few months of last year, the Sunday Times were publishing their YouGov around 9.30pm

TheScreamingEagles · January 2015

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
A reputable source has told me that the only polling we are getting tonight will be the YouGov for the Sunday Times
Hmmm... in that case only 8 polls during the first week of an election year.

By my estimation, next Saturday and Monday we could have 8 polls.

isam · January 2015

TheScreamingEagles said:

antifrank said:
It's adventurous of both Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson to advocate getting rid of any healthcare workers at present, given the current pressures on the health system. Still, we apparently live in an age where the best is allowed to be the enemy of the good in pursuit of votes.
The full Boris quotes were unlike Farage's.

Even the Guardian acknowledged that

He stopped short of echoing Farage’s suggestion that public service staff, particularly those working in the NHS, should show they can speak English. But Johnson said he was amazed by reports that some NHS staff could not make themselves understood in English.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/06/boris-johnson-multi-culty-balkanisation-uk-english-speaking-nhs

"He stopped short of echoing Farage’s suggestion that public service staff, particularly those working in the NHS, should show they can speak English. But Johnson said he was amazed by reports that some NHS staff could not make themselves understood in English."

What a difference!

taffys · January 2015

Thoughtful maybe - but the periods he talks about are medieval. We have evolved out of that. Unfortunately the process of evolution was at the price of massive massive loss of life.

Correct, all the whatabouters quote examples we left behind centuries ago. The point is, in the muslim world they are still going on.

AlastairMeeks · January 2015

isam said:

antifrank said:

isam said:

antifrank said:
It's adventurous of both Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson to advocate getting rid of any healthcare workers at present, given the current pressures on the health system. Still, we apparently live in an age where the best is allowed to be the enemy of the good in pursuit of votes.
Glad you are not my lawyer if you can misread like that
Ah I see. Once again Nigel Farage wants to get angry about something without having any solution or wanting to make any concession to hard reality. Par for the course.
Ah no you don't see!

Farage does have a solution... no tuition fees for medical students, and I don't see where either "advocate getting rid of any healthcare workers "

Dear dear

So if UKIP wouldn't get rid of those healthcare workers who don't speak English to the standard of Kerry Smith, they would keep employing them? Thus continuing the problem of healthcare workers with inadequate English?

In other words, it's bait for the more simple-minded kippers to get het up about, without even pretending to have an answer.

GIN1138 · January 2015

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
A reputable source has told me that the only polling we are getting tonight will be the YouGov for the Sunday Times
OK, so we're digging in for a late one waiting for sign's from YouGov?

Coffee and Ferrero Rocher on stand-bye!

In the last few months of last year, the Sunday Times were publishing their YouGov around 9.30pm

That's not too bad...

Still have Ferrero Rocher left over from Christmas though and I suspect they will be gone by the time YouGov turns up...

TheScreamingEagles · January 2015

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. G, my sympathies. Whilst it's been horrid here, I know it's been even worse in many parts of Scotland.

Mr. Dee, the Helm wind?

In my neck of the woods, we had the highest recorded wind speeds

http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/news/local/weather-warning-high-bradfield-records-england-s-strongest-wind-1-7043194

isam · January 2015

antifrank said:

isam said:

antifrank said:

isam said:

antifrank said:
It's adventurous of both Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson to advocate getting rid of any healthcare workers at present, given the current pressures on the health system. Still, we apparently live in an age where the best is allowed to be the enemy of the good in pursuit of votes.
Glad you are not my lawyer if you can misread like that
Ah I see. Once again Nigel Farage wants to get angry about something without having any solution or wanting to make any concession to hard reality. Par for the course.
Ah no you don't see!

Farage does have a solution... no tuition fees for medical students, and I don't see where either "advocate getting rid of any healthcare workers "

Dear dear
So if UKIP wouldn't get rid of those healthcare workers who don't speak English to the standard of Kerry Smith, they would keep employing them? Thus continuing the problem of healthcare workers with inadequate English?

In other words, it's bait for the more simple-minded kippers to get het up about, without even pretending to have an answer.

Hahahaha!!!

Doh I am soz ur too klevver 4 me 2 tawk 2 squire

taffys · January 2015

That's not too bad...

I'm wondering if there's going to be a UKIP move....

TheScreamingEagles · January 2015

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
A reputable source has told me that the only polling we are getting tonight will be the YouGov for the Sunday Times
OK, so we're digging in for a late one waiting for sign's from YouGov?

Coffee and Ferrero Rocher on stand-bye!

In the last few months of last year, the Sunday Times were publishing their YouGov around 9.30pm
That's not too bad...

Still have Ferrero Rocher left over from Christmas though and I suspect they will be gone by the time YouGov turns up...

I complained that I was paying £26 a month to subscribe to the Times and I needed by YouGov fix on Saturday night's and I couldn't wait until 6am on Sunday Morning's to see the results.

jayfdee · January 2015

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. G, my sympathies. Whilst it's been horrid here, I know it's been even worse in many parts of Scotland.

Mr. Dee, the Helm wind?

It Is a unique wind that comes down of Cross fell,Used to be called fiends fell,because they thought devils caused the wind,so they excorsised the fiends by erecting a cross,which obviously did not work.
When the Helm blows it sounds like a jet engine,the roof rattles. It is caused by an unique effect due to the shape of Cross fell. It is very scary when it blows. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helm_Wind

Morris_Dancer · January 2015

Mr. Eagles, last year when there was the red wind warning, there was (minor) damage to the roof. Damned weather.

Anyway, I hope your house doesn't get blown down.

GIN1138 · January 2015

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
A reputable source has told me that the only polling we are getting tonight will be the YouGov for the Sunday Times
OK, so we're digging in for a late one waiting for sign's from YouGov?

Coffee and Ferrero Rocher on stand-bye!

In the last few months of last year, the Sunday Times were publishing their YouGov around 9.30pm
That's not too bad...

Still have Ferrero Rocher left over from Christmas though and I suspect they will be gone by the time YouGov turns up...
I complained that I was paying £26 a month to subscribe to the Times and I needed by YouGov fix on Saturday night's and I couldn't wait until 6am on Sunday Morning's to see the results.

So you took on Rupert and won? Unlike Hacked Off and Red! :O

Morris_Dancer · January 2015

Mr. Dee, thanks, that's quite interesting.

TheScreamingEagles · January 2015

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
A reputable source has told me that the only polling we are getting tonight will be the YouGov for the Sunday Times
OK, so we're digging in for a late one waiting for sign's from YouGov?

Coffee and Ferrero Rocher on stand-bye!

In the last few months of last year, the Sunday Times were publishing their YouGov around 9.30pm
That's not too bad...

Still have Ferrero Rocher left over from Christmas though and I suspect they will be gone by the time YouGov turns up...
I complained that I was paying £26 a month to subscribe to the Times and I needed by YouGov fix on Saturday night's and I couldn't wait until 6am on Sunday Morning's to see the results.
So you took on Rupert and won? Unlike Hacked Off and Red! :O

Nah, I love Rupert, it is thanks to him (and Chris Huhne) that I became Guest Editor of PB.

malcolmg · January 2015

TheScreamingEagles said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. G, my sympathies. Whilst it's been horrid here, I know it's been even worse in many parts of Scotland.

Mr. Dee, the Helm wind?
In my neck of the woods, we had the highest recorded wind speeds

http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/news/local/weather-warning-high-bradfield-records-england-s-strongest-wind-1-7043194

A breeze , far north was 3 figures. We had 80+ in south west

TheScreamingEagles · January 2015

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Eagles, last year when there was the red wind warning, there was (minor) damage to the roof. Damned weather.

Anyway, I hope your house doesn't get blown down.

We were having renovations and extensions being done around that time. Was fun.

Carnyx · January 2015

Indigo said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Alistair said:

Indigo said:
Unity march including the elected representatives of three quarters of the population, its a start I suppose....

I dont remotely approve of FNs policies or aims, but the fact remains they were elected by people, and are likely to be elected by a lot more people next time. This is the sort of "no platform" idiocy I was talking about earlier, not letting them on the march doesnt make them go away, and gives them a grievance to whip up their supporters and capture new voters. If they behave shamelessly or like idiots on a solemn occasion, the people will see it and their vote will suffer for it. Democracy will work as it should.
I thought that FN had explicitly said there were not in unity.
Did Jean Marie say 'Je ne suis pas Charlie' before or after the exclusion? If the former, the FN are being a bit tittish moaning about it.
That would be like banning the SNP because of something Winnie Ewing said

Not quite, to be fair: Madame Ecosse is not leader of her party!

RodCrosby · January 2015

bondegezou said:

HYUFD said:
Calum MalcolmG Indigo (previous thread) Of course Scottish Tories will vote Labour in a constituency where the alternative is the SNP at Holyrood, while also voting Tory for the regional list, as they get in the habit they may well also start voting Labour at Westminster too to keep the SNP out
Is there any point voting tactically in the constituency component of the Scottish Parliament election? Doesn't the regional list component smooth everything out? An additional constituency seat for the SNP or Labour just means one less regional seat: no different in the total number of seats.

AMS is a nasty system with plenty of tactical voting opportunities. Yes, it can be worth voting tactically in a constituency, and it can be worth voting tactically on the list!

For example, in 2007 in Glasgow, if Sturgeon had not won Govan, the Greens would have lost their list seat (to the SNP). As it happens the Greens didn't contest the constituency, but if they had, it would have been logical for a Green voter to tactically vote for Sturgeon.

Similarly, it would have been sensible for a Green voter to vote Tory (!) in Pentlands in 2003...

malcolmg · January 2015

jayfdee said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. G, my sympathies. Whilst it's been horrid here, I know it's been even worse in many parts of Scotland.

Mr. Dee, the Helm wind?
It Is a unique wind that comes down of Cross fell,Used to be called fiends fell,because they thought devils caused the wind,so they excorsised the fiends by erecting a cross,which obviously did not work.
When the Helm blows it sounds like a jet engine,the roof rattles. It is caused by an unique effect due to the shape of Cross fell. It is very scary when it blows. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helm_Wind

very interesting

TheScreamingEagles · January 2015

malcolmg said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. G, my sympathies. Whilst it's been horrid here, I know it's been even worse in many parts of Scotland.

Mr. Dee, the Helm wind?
In my neck of the woods, we had the highest recorded wind speeds

http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/news/local/weather-warning-high-bradfield-records-england-s-strongest-wind-1-7043194
A breeze , far north was 3 figures. We had 80+ in south west

If we lived in America, they would have called it a hurricane and given it a name

Hertsmere_Pubgoer · January 2015

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
A reputable source has told me that the only polling we are getting tonight will be the YouGov for the Sunday Times
OK, so we're digging in for a late one waiting for sign's from YouGov?

Coffee and Ferrero Rocher on stand-bye!

In the last few months of last year, the Sunday Times were publishing their YouGov around 9.30pm
That's not too bad...

Still have Ferrero Rocher left over from Christmas though and I suspect they will be gone by the time YouGov turns up...
I complained that I was paying £26 a month to subscribe to the Times and I needed by YouGov fix on Saturday night's and I couldn't wait until 6am on Sunday Morning's to see the results.
So you took on Rupert and won? Unlike Hacked Off and Red! :O

Nah, I love Rupert, it is thanks to him (and Chris Huhne) that I became Guest Editor of PB.

They put a word in with OGH for you?

Scrapheap_as_was · January 2015

Oh well, expected a loss was hoping for a draw.

At least we beat Chelsea!!!

Hoorar fo that.

SandyRentool · January 2015

A few flurries of snow today in the land of the Prince Bishops. Didn't stop us getting out for a walk, where we were treated to the site of a pair of bullfinches.

News full of Paris and weather equals one day fewer for the Tories to improve their position. Time is running out for the Bullington boys.

malcolmg · January 2015

TheScreamingEagles said:

malcolmg said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. G, my sympathies. Whilst it's been horrid here, I know it's been even worse in many parts of Scotland.

Mr. Dee, the Helm wind?
In my neck of the woods, we had the highest recorded wind speeds

http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/news/local/weather-warning-high-bradfield-records-england-s-strongest-wind-1-7043194
A breeze , far north was 3 figures. We had 80+ in south west
If we lived in America, they would have called it a hurricane and given it a name

LOL

Morris_Dancer · January 2015

Mr. Rentool, you're in Montenegro?

Theuniondivvie · January 2015

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Divvie, the number of burnt witches is, I believe, grossly exaggerated. Similarly, the Inquisition (Spanish, not Dragon Age) was centuries ago. By that logic I could say that the Italians were a bit harsh, what with all their crucifying people and slavery.
I fail to see the relevance of comparing men of the 21st century with the violent doings of the 14th.

Flightpath said:

Thoughtful maybe - but the periods he talks about are medieval. We have evolved out of that. Unfortunately the process of evolution was at the price of massive massive loss of life.

You've read the piece only partially if you think the author dwells solely in the medieval period.

SandyRentool · January 2015

TheScreamingEagles said:

malcolmg said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. G, my sympathies. Whilst it's been horrid here, I know it's been even worse in many parts of Scotland.

Mr. Dee, the Helm wind?
In my neck of the woods, we had the highest recorded wind speeds

http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/news/local/weather-warning-high-bradfield-records-england-s-strongest-wind-1-7043194
A breeze , far north was 3 figures. We had 80+ in south west
If we lived in America, they would have called it a hurricane and given it a name

All of the low pressure systems are given names - by some outfit in Germany. It's just that the UK forecasters don't use them.

Freggles · January 2015

SandyRentool said:
A few flurries of snow today in the land of the Prince Bishops. Didn't stop us getting out for a walk, where we were treated to the site of a pair of bullfinches.

News full of Paris and weather equals one day fewer for the Tories to improve their position. Time is running out for the Bullington boys.

Swingback is postponed until the day of the election.

Unless of course the biased BBC/wrong type of snow/immigration/Farage/EU/SNP/lack of Greens in debates spoils things.

Morris_Dancer · January 2015

Mr. Divvie, or read the excerpt.

TheScreamingEagles · January 2015

Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
A reputable source has told me that the only polling we are getting tonight will be the YouGov for the Sunday Times
OK, so we're digging in for a late one waiting for sign's from YouGov?

Coffee and Ferrero Rocher on stand-bye!

In the last few months of last year, the Sunday Times were publishing their YouGov around 9.30pm
That's not too bad...

Still have Ferrero Rocher left over from Christmas though and I suspect they will be gone by the time YouGov turns up...
I complained that I was paying £26 a month to subscribe to the Times and I needed by YouGov fix on Saturday night's and I couldn't wait until 6am on Sunday Morning's to see the results.
So you took on Rupert and won? Unlike Hacked Off and Red! :O

Nah, I love Rupert, it is thanks to him (and Chris Huhne) that I became Guest Editor of PB.
They put a word in with OGH for you?

When the Times went paywall, Mike emailed me asking me if I could email him the articles with the Populus phone polls for the Times and the YouGov for the Sunday Times.

Eventually I ended up emailing him other articles that might be of interest, the big one was the Sunday Times story about Chris Huhne and his speeding problem.

We ended up discussing the story and I gave my honest assessment that I couldn't post on PB (Huhne is as guilty and Ms Pryce must be the source and they both would end up getting charged and face prison time)

After that, we ended up chatting on a lot of things on a regular basis and then one day he asked me, he was going on holiday in a few months time, and would I like to edit the site.

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