Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Champagne socialism – politicalbetting.com

15678911»

Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited February 16
    boulay said:

    At this time any sensible countries with good universities would be looking down the back of the sofa for some cash and offering funding to those top universities to subtly approach a lot of these research projects that are being gutted by Musk and friends and poaching them.

    The UK should of course be in the optimal position with the ratings of Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, Imperial globally and language/cultural similarities but inevitably we will miss out as we need the money to give to Mauritius. Australia could do well and I would imagine Switzerland could make a good case to move there.

    Well the government in their wisdom already cancelled the scientific super computer at Edinburgh, that would have made the UK only the third country after US and China with this capacity.....

    If the government were serious they would be looking to fund as many SOTA GPU clusters at the leading unis as they are all short of H100 availability. Again, they have thrown their lots in with some weird eco data centre start-up who only have £100m in funding but are claiming they can a) make AMD cards do thing AMD themselves can't get to do and b) have billions to spend on new data centres.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,813
    edited February 16
    .
    Jonathan said:

    So in a nutshell, on today’s menu we have Munich appeasement of tyrannical Putin, rearmament across Europe and the death of Conservative Party at home.

    Does anyone remember when we used to argue about bus lanes on the M4 or the tax on a Cornish pasty?

    We're actually in a thread about the Chancellor of the Exchequer not having any disciplinary action sixteen years ago. Should we stay on topic?

    On defence spending. Taxes will have to rise if people think the defence capability necessary.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,135

    Everyone needs to pay more taxes.

    I know that's unpopular and the pathetic plastic patriots will screech about leaving the country, but if we want increased defence spending *and* to fix some of the stuff that's broken, then DOGE or yet more austerity/efficiency savings really won't get us there.

    We do live in a democracy, though, which means that everyone needs to want to pay more taxes.

    Otherwise the government of the day will just have to do the best they can with the taxes the public will let them raise. There are still choices to be made, better or worse paths to follow, even though I agree with you that a modest amount of extra taxes could go a long way.

    This isn't a new problem. Ask Charles I or Cromwell about Parliament's willingness to recognise the fiscal needs of the state and to vote for increased taxation.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,371
    Did we do the US Department of Defense no longer marking Holocaust Remembrance Day? https://www.ynetnews.com/article/s15ve41yje Bit in the nose.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,017
    FF43 said:

    .

    We're actually in a thread about the Chancellor of the Exchequer not having any disciplinary action sixteen years ago. Should we stay on topic?

    On defence spending. Taxes will have to rise if people think the defence capability necessary.
    What is the point when we will likely have a Russia friendly PM within a decade here? Defence spending only works long term with a sustainable political consensus around it.
  • Why are politicians and commentators so outraged by the Vance speech? They are allies of Murica. Their ally Murica has patronised, lectured and openly interfered with other countries for a long long time.

    You choose who to be allied with. Seemingly we were fine when Murica messed with other people, but now react with Consternation and Uproar when they do it to us. Nothing has changed!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,113
    The US regime really knows how to signal deals...

    "Gen. Kellogg said US would respond to Russian ceasefire violations with immediate and overwhelming violence, citing Tomahawk strikes on Assad when he used chemical weapons.
    Defense Secretary Hegseth said the US will play no role in ceasefire enforcement at this same conference."

    https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1890941298296623268
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,813
    Interesting development. Ukraine has reached out to China, who says warm things about Ukraine's vision of peace and that Europe must be part of the settlement.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/ukraines-senior-officials-discuss-kyivs-peace-vision-with-chinas-foreign-2025-02-15/
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173

    Everyone needs to pay more taxes.

    I know that's unpopular and the pathetic plastic patriots will screech about leaving the country, but if we want increased defence spending *and* to fix some of the stuff that's broken, then DOGE or yet more austerity/efficiency savings really won't get us there.

    A whole series of nasty things are required. Luxury benefits for the wealthy need to be burned: that's not just getting rid of the triple lock, that's measures such as ending the preferential tax treatment of assets and property, abolition of higher rate tax relief on pension contributions, and the broad reimposition of death duties.

    What we'll probably get in reality is yet another round of austerity cuts to public services, additional measures to try to frustrate the disabled from claiming benefits, blame rhetoric levelled at the unemployed, and even higher levies on earnings so that assets can be spared (at bare minimum another extension of fiscal drag, and possibly direct income tax hikes if the Treasury gets panicky enough.) In short, continuity Sunak, exactly as I predicted before the election.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,813
    edited February 16

    Why are politicians and commentators so outraged by the Vance speech? They are allies of Murica. Their ally Murica has patronised, lectured and openly interfered with other countries for a long long time.

    You choose who to be allied with. Seemingly we were fine when Murica messed with other people, but now react with Consternation and Uproar when they do it to us. Nothing has changed!

    Because those erstwhile allies are now at best unreliable and at worst actually hostile?

    You don't think it might be a little concerning?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,281

    Why are politicians and commentators so outraged by the Vance speech? They are allies of Murica. Their ally Murica has patronised, lectured and openly interfered with other countries for a long long time.

    You choose who to be allied with. Seemingly we were fine when Murica messed with other people, but now react with Consternation and Uproar when they do it to us. Nothing has changed!

    With due respect, that is a pretty daft comment.

    Firstly, not everyone was 'fine' with all of past US foreign policy.

    Secondly, when it is directed at you, of course you complain more! Your comment is like saying "Zelensky has no right to be so upset about Russia invading Ukraine, when he wasn't that upset about Russia invading Georgia"
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,813

    What is the point when we will likely have a Russia friendly PM within a decade here? Defence spending only works long term with a sustainable political consensus around it.
    Why bother with government at all then? It's just nihilism.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,785

    My local multi-ethnic supermarket is called Asia Oriental. And it is fairly new - opened after Covid I think. But I suppose it is a mish mash of food from all over the Orient, plus the subcontinent (is India in the Orient?) and some Caribbean.
    Isn't it that "oriental" is potentially offensive when used about people, but not about objects or places? So a bit like the difference between referring to "coloured people" and coloured pencils?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,371
    boulay said:

    This isn't ideal for the pro Mauritius wing of the UK government.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/former-mauritius-prime-minister-detained-says-financial-crimes-commission-2025-02-16/
    At least it demonstrates Mauritius has greater respect for the rule of law than the US…
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,371
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-race-ethnicity-and-politics/article/beyond-the-trump-presidency-the-racial-underpinnings-of-white-americans-antidemocratic-beliefs/919D18F05DB106D3DEC0016E9BA709A1

    “How closely related are modern anti-democratic beliefs among white Americans, and to what extent are these beliefs shaped by exclusionary racial attitudes? Using data from the Political Unrest Study, the Collaborative Multiracial Post-Election Survey (CMPS), Democracy Fund + UCLA Nationscape, and the Survey of the Performance of American Elections (SPAE), we find that support for voting restrictions, opposition to voting expansions, belief in widespread voter fraud, and support for overturning democratic election results load onto a single underlying dimension. While the prevalence of anti-democratic beliefs among white Americans has remained stable over the past decade, these beliefs have become increasingly interconnected. Furthermore, racial attitudes towards out-groups—including racial resentment, anti-immigrant sentiment, and white racial grievance—strongly correlate with anti-democratic beliefs, whereas in-group racial attitudes do not. Analysis of multiple waves of the American National Election Studies (ANES) reveals that racial resentment and white grievance now explain twice as much variation in anti-democratic beliefs as they did in 2012. Experimental evidence also demonstrates that white Americans react negatively to voting expansions when the racial implications of these reforms are made explicit. These findings underscore the growing alignment between anti-democratic beliefs and racial attitudes in contemporary U.S. politics.”
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,281
    FF43 said:

    Interesting development. Ukraine has reached out to China, who says warm things about Ukraine's vision of peace and that Europe must be part of the settlement.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/ukraines-senior-officials-discuss-kyivs-peace-vision-with-chinas-foreign-2025-02-15/

    China is warning Russia not to get too cosy with the Americans. Russia needs China a lot more than China needs Russia.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,534
    FF43 said:

    Interesting development. Ukraine has reached out to China, who says warm things about Ukraine's vision of peace and that Europe must be part of the settlement.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/ukraines-senior-officials-discuss-kyivs-peace-vision-with-chinas-foreign-2025-02-15/

    Hardly surprising - China currently has an incredibly sweet deal with Russia (as Russia has few other markets / friends) and probably doesn't want it to change...

    As was pointed out on here after Trump was elected - the trade tariffs are likely to push Europe towards China and China towards Europe... This is one of the examples where China is doing the EU a favour in return for something we will discover later..
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,195
    edited February 16
    theProle said:

    Like many things the government does, it would be prudent to ask what the MOD is actually going to do with the extra cash. An awful lot of taxpayers money currently goes into MOD procurement, often getting spent on what looks more like social security for UK defence contractors and Scottish shipyards than things useful for fighting in an actual hot war. The sagas we get to hear about such as the Ajax APCs (over 8 years late, at least 20% over budget) or the Nimrod upgrades (scrapped £3.5bn into the program) suggest that the procurement is probably the worst bits of the process state in action.

    I've very little confidence tipping an extra £60bn a year into this black hole will do much to enhance our fighting capability, although it will probably work wonder for BAE's balance sheet.
    I'm inclined to agree on £60bn a year - there's no way a budget can be almost doubled in a single year and spent efficiently. It needs to be about capabilities not headline numbers, and is completely dependent on political will existing:

    1 - Shorter term ie tactical. What capabilities do we need, what can actually be done quickly, and how do we get there? How do we collectively (as say the Joint Expeditionary Force) support and protect Ukraine now?

    2 - Longer term? How do we deter Russia, and position ourselves to prevent the USA exploiting Ukraine or selling it down the river, in the longer term?

    3 - How do we manage our relationship with a (possibly former) ally run by an old career criminal interested only in his personal interests, who mainly listens to the voices in his head, and has a regime gutted of competence?

    Trump's 5% is posturing - the USA only spent 2.7% in 2024.

    So I suggest more like 2.6% is likely for 24-25, and 2.75-2.8% next year for the UK, which will build on various things that have already been started. A lot of the stuff is relatively inexpensive, such as gingering up personnel who have left, and have a continuing obligation if required.

    Each extra 0.1% is around £2.5bn per annum.

    There were plenty of proposals of how to raise funds at the budget that were not used. For example from a tweak to the Tax Relief on pension contributions.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612

    Didn't you read yesterday's thread? Their dismissal was all a conspiracy to make DOGE look bad...

    DOGE are evil fuckwits. The people defending them are worse.
    Lots of people on here get really excited by the idea of slashing govt and firing thousands/millions of govt employees. The disaster that DOGE will become probably won't change their minds, but at least it will be a useful counterexample.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,127
    edited February 16
    So is Hegseth:

    a) a non recovering alcoholic
    b) one of those weirdos who drinks their own piss
    c) someone who has his water specially shipped in by a UK water company

    https://x.com/flyingdutchpall/status/1890703304151220281?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,295
    The Dirge of the Dancer



    Hear Ye the grief of man in winter’s chain!
    My name is Morris, my name is Dancer
    Yet my radiators bleed, and groan in vain,
    And all I do is ponder: PB’s famed Entrancer

    O Leon! Thee the southern heavens crown,
    Where myrtles lean to kiss the yielding tide;
    Soft airs attend thee, golden suns look down,
    Whilst here in iron bonds I grieve and bide

    Would that my feet, unshackled from this fate,
    Might dance with nymphets in the sois, the sunlit lane
    And shake this bitter frost from out my gait -!
    But Leon reigns afar, and I remain
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100

    Why are politicians and commentators so outraged by the Vance speech? They are allies of Murica. Their ally Murica has patronised, lectured and openly interfered with other countries for a long long time.

    You choose who to be allied with. Seemingly we were fine when Murica messed with other people, but now react with Consternation and Uproar when they do it to us. Nothing has changed!

    America signalled that they favour Russia and are antagonistic towards us. That mattters and is not in our national interest.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited February 16
    We can’t feed pupils for 60p, say schools in blow to Labour breakfast club pledge

    This weekend, the independent publication Schools Week highlighted how some headteachers in primaries, while enthusiastic about the overall aims, were refusing to take part in an “early adopter” pilot scheme for 750 volunteer schools because only 60p was being provided by the government per pupil.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/feb/16/we-cant-feed-pupils-for-60p-say-schools-in-blow-to-labour-breakfast-club-pledge
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,813
    edited February 16
    .
    eek said:

    Hardly surprising - China currently has an incredibly sweet deal with Russia (as Russia has few other markets / friends) and probably doesn't want it to change...

    As was pointed out on here after Trump was elected - the trade tariffs are likely to push Europe towards China and China towards Europe... This is one of the examples where China is doing the EU a favour in return for something we will discover later..
    I think China has bigger fish to fry than Russia. It sees an opportunity to peel Europe away from the US to the Chinese advantage.

    Edit sorry this was intended in response to @Kamski. You make the same point as I do. Russia and China share the same view on transatlantic alliances.
  • Why are politicians and commentators so outraged by
    kamski said:

    With due respect, that is a pretty daft comment.

    Firstly, not everyone was 'fine' with all of past US foreign policy.

    Secondly, when it is directed at you, of course you complain more! Your comment is like saying "Zelensky has no right to be so upset about Russia invading Ukraine, when he wasn't that upset about Russia invading Georgia"
    But this is literally America. This is what it does - and we have supported it and allied with it as it does the exact thing it’s now doing to us.

    I read the reports about the speech and I’m thinking about people voting for the Leopards Eating Faces party then saying I didn’t think they would eat MY face.

    Your analogy is silly. I’m talking about people who SUPPORT the people doing the invading. Not opposing them. When did Ukraine support Russia interfering with other countries?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,692
    eek said:

    Hardly surprising - China currently has an incredibly sweet deal with Russia (as Russia has few other markets / friends) and probably doesn't want it to change...

    As was pointed out on here after Trump was elected - the trade tariffs are likely to push Europe towards China and China towards Europe... This is one of the examples where China is doing the EU a favour in return for something we will discover later..
    Global strife is always good news for the rising hegemon. A few notches further up the ladder of influence.

    China can also see Trump’s geopolitical weakness, which must be heartening.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,934
    edited February 16
    ...
    Leon said:

    This site is much much better for the existence of @BlancheLivermore who is intelligent, insightful, unexpected, very human, likeable, funny, and provides a unique perspective on life - as a postie from an apparently affluent family - when he/she is not doing excellent travelogues or popping up with photos of the latest tomatoes

    Why is it always the fun people like @BlancheLivermore that get banned when we have five fucking billion boring witless completely interchangeable centrist dads - from @Mexicanpete to @kinabalu to @turbotubbs to @Nigelb to @whofuckingcares - whose commentary is so enervatingly, soul sappingly tedious and dreary that banning a few of THEM would be a mercy to the rest of us?

    This seems to be a feature not a bug. PB is STRIVING to be duller, by the day

    BOO

    Sorry about that @Leon, so you missed me.

    After a very brief spat with our Russian troll yesterday lunchtime I left you alone for the day. I genuinely went to Penarth for the afternoon. I had a nice coffee (very nice coffee) and a cake at Brod, the Danish bakery (lots of talk of Greenland - they are furious) but forgot to take photos to post later, sorry about that.

    Still far too many non-right wingers left on here for you then? There must be, ooh, at least five, so I will bid you farewell and try to leave you alone today too.

    Have a nice day. X
  • eekeek Posts: 29,534
    FF43 said:

    .

    I think China has bigger fish to fry than Russia. It sees an opportunity to peel Europe away from the US to the Chinese advantage.
    Trump is doing that himself - China is just lucky enough to be a position to take advantage of it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902
    .
    boulay said:

    At this time any sensible countries with good universities would be looking down the back of the sofa for some cash and offering funding to those top universities to subtly approach a lot of these research projects that are being gutted by Musk and friends and poaching them.

    The UK should of course be in the optimal position with the ratings of Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, Imperial globally and language/cultural similarities but inevitably we will miss out as we need the money to give to Mauritius. Australia could do well and I would imagine Switzerland could make a good case to move there.

    The answer is obvious - Chagos College Oxford, St Diego Garcia Cambridge ... and Imperial Mauritius.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,692
    edited February 16
    rkrkrk said:

    Lots of people on here get really excited by the idea of slashing govt and firing thousands/millions of govt employees. The disaster that DOGE will become probably won't change their minds, but at least it will be a useful counterexample.
    As I showed a few days ago, when you look at the numbers our problem is not that we’re spending beyond our means and need to cut or tax more. It’s that we’re not spending enough as households or businesses. Private debt has fallen hugely since 2009. Government needs to encourage us to turn on the taps again. That will refill the government coffers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,785
    boulay said:

    At this time any sensible countries with good universities would be looking down the back of the sofa for some cash and offering funding to those top universities to subtly approach a lot of these research projects that are being gutted by Musk and friends and poaching them.

    The UK should of course be in the optimal position with the ratings of Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, Imperial globally and language/cultural similarities but inevitably we will miss out as we need the money to give to Mauritius. Australia could do well and I would imagine Switzerland could make a good case to move there.

    It does seem a particularly poor time for our universities to be threatened with bankruptcy and mass redundancies. I shouldn't think there are a lot of spare places for academic refugees from America.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902

    Why are politicians and commentators so outraged by the Vance speech? They are allies of Murica. Their ally Murica has patronised, lectured and openly interfered with other countries for a long long time.

    You choose who to be allied with. Seemingly we were fine when Murica messed with other people, but now react with Consternation and Uproar when they do it to us. Nothing has changed!

    Why indeed ?

    A debate on the enemy within is fairly apposite, when the cornerstone of NATO is threatening to sell out European security.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,785
    edited February 16
    TimS said:

    As I showed a few days ago, when you look at the numbers our problem is not that we’re spending beyond our means and need to cut or tax more. It’s that we’re not spending enough as households or businesses. Private debt has fallen hugely since 2009. Government needs to encourage us to turn on the taps again. That will refill the government coffers.
    Or perhaps that improvement in the nations savings rate should be incentives into investments that improve domestic productivity growth, rather than a consumer boom that sucks in imports, or a further house price bubble.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902
    .

    The US regime really knows how to signal deals...

    "Gen. Kellogg said US would respond to Russian ceasefire violations with immediate and overwhelming violence, citing Tomahawk strikes on Assad when he used chemical weapons.
    Defense Secretary Hegseth said the US will play no role in ceasefire enforcement at this same conference."

    https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1890941298296623268

    Cornflake, and flake ?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,281
    edited February 16

    Why are politicians and commentators so outraged by

    But this is literally America. This is what it does - and we have supported it and allied with it as it does the exact thing it’s now doing to us.

    I read the reports about the speech and I’m thinking about people voting for the Leopards Eating Faces party then saying I didn’t think they would eat MY face.

    Your analogy is silly. I’m talking about people who SUPPORT the people doing the invading. Not opposing them. When did Ukraine support Russia interfering with other countries?
    Right. Let me put it this way. The US was a critical ally for 80 years, primarily against the Soviet Union/Russia. Now that Western Europe is almost at war with Russia, the US is abandoning its allies (who also loyally died alongside America's wars elsewhere), and is instead using speeches to attack them. And your reaction is 'what are people complaining about?'. Sorry, but that is properly nuts, whatever your views on Pinochet or whatever.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,482
    Is he allocating the money to lease Diego Garcia as defence spending?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,813
    eek said:

    Trump is doing that himself - China is just lucky enough to be a position to take advantage of it.
    Indeed. A country's national interest is whatever it chooses it to be, even if the leader of it is someone like Trump. Nevertheless this administration is weakening America. It didn't create NATO as a charitable act towards Europe.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,195
    edited February 16

    On the tragic plane/helicopter collision the other week:

    "The NTSB held another press conference about the DCA collision yesterday. Lots of focus on the altitudes of the helicopter, and while we know the helicopter was at 278feet based on its radar altimeter, investigators don’t know what altitude was displayed to crew.

    Did you know that the threshold for altimeter accuracy suggested by the AIM is 75 feet?
    The routes along the river literally didn’t have enough margin for error."

    https://x.com/DJSnM/status/1890872071082922112

    75 foot difference is okay when at thousands of feet. Not so okay when having to navigate in a corridor only 200 foot hight, with 0 being the ground...

    (*) I believe there are two, of different types?

    I suggest that the actual cause will be irrelevant to Trump and Hegseth, who have already declared it to be due to DEI aiui reducing standards. It's a lie, but that does not matter.

    Since the helicopter pilot was a woman, that may be the identified cause. Hegseth has some very strange views about women in combat.

    https://apnews.com/article/pete-hegseth-background-defense-secretary-confirmation-hearing-e160e10c86385a8beff110d9190fb34e

    I hope that I am wrong.

    As to the actual cause - I'd think perhaps something in the ATC system, either lost communication or what I think is sometimes called "Swiss Cheesing" that is leaving very tight "holes" for people to fly through, increasing risk. That would I think match the 75ft separation quoted.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,692
    Foxy said:

    Or perhaps that improvement in the nations savings rate should be incentives into investments that improve domestic productivity growth, rather than a consumer boom that sucks in imports, or a further house price bubble.
    That would be ideal, but even a consumer boom would be better than the proto-Japan we have been turning into.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,692

    Is he allocating the money to lease Diego Garcia as defence spending?
    Not sure £90 million a year would make much difference to the numbers.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051
    MattW said:

    I suggest that the actual cause will be irrelevant to Trump and Hegseth, who have already declared it to be due to DEI aiui reducing standards. It's a lie, but that does not matter.

    Since the helicopter pilot was a woman, that may be the identified cause. Hegseth has some very strange views about women in combat.

    https://apnews.com/article/pete-hegseth-background-defense-secretary-confirmation-hearing-e160e10c86385a8beff110d9190fb34e

    I hope that I am wrong.
    You probably could have just left off the last two words in that sentence.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,785
    eek said:

    Hardly surprising - China currently has an incredibly sweet deal with Russia (as Russia has few other markets / friends) and probably doesn't want it to change...

    As was pointed out on here after Trump was elected - the trade tariffs are likely to push Europe towards China and China towards Europe... This is one of the examples where China is doing the EU a favour in return for something we will discover later..
    Yes, but the European market is much more valuable and interesting than the Russian one to the Chinese.

    Canny of Ukraine to cosy up to China. America is increasingly likely to abandon Ukraine and needs must. Cosying up to China potentially adversely impacts Russias arms supply too, so potentially double bubble.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902
    Muhsin Hendricks, world’s ‘first openly gay imam’, shot dead in South Africa
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/16/muhsin-hendricks-worlds-first-openly-gay-imam-shot-dead-in-south-africa
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,371
    boulay said:

    You probably could have just left off the last two words in that sentence.
    Or just leave off the last four words.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051
    TimS said:

    Not sure £90 million a year would make much difference to the numbers.
    Isn’t your point part of the problem? Everyone says “£90m is nothing in the big picture” except that all these £90 millions that aren’t that big add up and are collectively big.

    Think what you can buy for the military with £90m - how many machine guns, bullets, shells. It’s over 69,000 SA-80 machine guns for example.

    All these figures can be used and depending on where you sit, £90m for the army might be better than £90m to Mauritius.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,267
    edited February 16

    Everyone needs to pay more taxes.

    I know that's unpopular and the pathetic plastic patriots will screech about leaving the country, but if we want increased defence spending *and* to fix some of the stuff that's broken, then DOGE or yet more austerity/efficiency savings really won't get us there.

    Whack 1p on all income tax bands and 5p on the 45p band and call is the National Defence Tax or similar.

    We need to adjust our defence spending to the new world reality of an expansionist Russia and hostile USA.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,378
    Leon said:

    The Dirge of the Dancer



    Hear Ye the grief of man in winter’s chain!
    My name is Morris, my name is Dancer
    Yet my radiators bleed, and groan in vain,
    And all I do is ponder: PB’s famed Entrancer

    O Leon! Thee the southern heavens crown,
    Where myrtles lean to kiss the yielding tide;
    Soft airs attend thee, golden suns look down,
    Whilst here in iron bonds I grieve and bide

    Would that my feet, unshackled from this fate,
    Might dance with nymphets in the sois, the sunlit lane
    And shake this bitter frost from out my gait -!
    But Leon reigns afar, and I remain

    Dare I ask if you penned that yourself, or had some assistance of a machine nature?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,534
    edited February 16
    Battlebus said:

    Don't know where you are getting this nonsense from. There are many, many sources of help for those on low incomes.

    https://www.gov.uk/pension-credit/eligibility
    Reeves ended winter fuel allowance for every pensioner not on pension credit, thanks for proving my point
  • NEW THREAD

  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,384
    eek said:

    Hardly surprising - China currently has an incredibly sweet deal with Russia (as Russia has few other markets / friends) and probably doesn't want it to change...

    As was pointed out on here after Trump was elected - the trade tariffs are likely to push Europe towards China and China towards Europe... This is one of the examples where China is doing the EU a favour in return for something we will discover later..
    Is this then the true global realignment? China and Europe on one side, Russia and America on the other - it would certainly be very different from anything we’ve lived through. Big questions for the likes of India, Australia, Brazil and others.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 623
    HYUFD said:

    Reeves ended winter fuel allowance for every pension not on pension credit, thanks for proving my point
    You still don't understand the broad scope of (parliament backed) benefits in this country. There are a number of safety nets and if you want to deny this, I have a lot more examples.

    https://www.gov.uk/cost-living-help-local-council
  • Why are politicians and commentators so outraged by the Vance speech? They are allies of Mur
    kamski said:

    Right. Let me put it this way. The US was a critical ally for 80 years, primarily against the Soviet Union/Russia. Now that Western Europe is almost at war with Russia, the US is abandoning its allies (who also loyally died alongside America's wars elsewhere), and is instead using speeches to attack them. And your reaction is 'what are people complaining about?'. Sorry, but that is properly nuts, whatever your views on Pinochet or whatever.
    Trump abandoning NATO was the Hegseth speech. This is the Vance speech talking about freedom of speech and democracy. His speech is outrageous only because they’re saying it to us - not because of what they are saying. We apparently support them when saying this nonsense to other non-enemy countries. We support them interfering with elections and even deposing leaders to impose dictators like Pinochet. But apparently now are outraged by their views.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,477

    In this case, no one will notice.

    She wasn't ready for prime time and she has been found out.

    But who else? Jenrick?? Pass the sick bag.
    They will be deeply upset to lose your vote.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,378
    Boiler working again. Huzzah!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,477
    edited February 16
    Reading the Sun leak, I'm going to make a few surmises:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/33399607/kemi-badenoch-tory-leadership/

    In my opinion it's the wets again. This is usually the source of most stabby briefings, right wingers tend to be more public, but the real reason I think that is the language used. "Keir is getting better" is very friendly to the Labour leader, using first name terms and complimenting his performance. This person almost seems ready to cross the floor. A more right wing leak might have read "Starmer is dreadful at PMQs but she can't even seem to beat him."

    That there's nothing about policy is also suspicious. Just that she needs to "listen to her team". So I think this is likely to be one of the centrist no-marks. Of course it could be Jenrick, who is also known to be pretty devious, but I just don't seem him being the assassin - he would want to keep his own hands clean. At a stretch it could be an ally - but the leak would be more about the challenge from Reform, not how great 'Keir' is at PMQs.

    The medium is also telling - The Murdoch press. It's all very Gove. Very the people that engineered Kemi into place to start with.

    Despite saying that Kemi wasn't up to it from day 1, I do feel a bit sorry for her now with the Tory backbiting operation in full swing. She's trying to please everyone and pleasing no-one.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 2,005

    Why are politicians and commentators so outraged by the Vance speech? They are allies of Mur

    Trump abandoning NATO was the Hegseth speech. This is the Vance speech talking about freedom of speech and democracy. His speech is outrageous only because they’re saying it to us - not because of what they are saying. We apparently support them when saying this nonsense to other non-enemy countries. We support them interfering with elections and even deposing leaders to impose dictators like Pinochet. But apparently now are outraged by their views.
    No, the speech was outrageous because it was ill-informed, disingenuous, full of lies and misrepresentations and was based on the idea that the greatest threat to freedom in Europe wasn't a tyrant who that morning had attacked a nuclear power plant, but not being nice enough to successor parties to the Nazis and inviting them into government.

    When someone says things like that, in Munich, it is outrageous, whether or not it's couched in entirely disingenuous terms as "free speech". Which is inverted by people like Vance and Musk as a rhetorical weapon to force people who disagree to bow to their views, while of course doing the opposite and trying to delegitimise or ban things that they disagree with.

    It was outrageous both because of what was said, who was saying it, and what we know they support - which very much isn't freedom and democracy.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,735
    rkrkrk said:

    Yes - if the situation is as dire as these military experts keep saying, the obvious thing is to scrap carriers and spend more on other stuff.
    https://www.declassifieduk.org/the-giant-warships-sinking-britains-budget/
    Both of you go away, reflect on the (now unclassified) NATO defence plans from the 80s and consider the need to fill in for the (one assumes now absent) US carriers.
This discussion has been closed.