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Champagne socialism – politicalbetting.com

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  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    MattW said:

    The basic error there is HR listening to the voices in their head from the assumptions of their own belief / training, rather than to the members of the team by consultation with a team leader who they encourage to reflect and guide them in the context. It sounds as if they made blanket assumptions about people being Muslims.

    Similar confusion happens when, for example, the majority of Iranians in California are Christian, or Westerners run up against the full social complexity of Indian society. Take them to Nagaland.

    I had a similar issue that required careful navigation when I ran an interdenominational lunch group / prayer group at my workplace for 5 years.

    That national organisation - the only one that existed supporting around 300 groups in the UK - was founded from within the Independent Evangelical sector (as the War Time Christian Union in 1942 approx), and was strongly and narrowly Evangelical enough that Roman Catholics were not allowed to be formal members by policy of the national organisation. The policy stated that RCs needed to be "saved".

    Equally my workplace group had existed since 1956 (this was 199x), so I was not about to create a huge fuss whilst I sought to make the group more open to all and more visible. Creating a group of 4 people meeting once a week in a room is easy; doing things like running a magazine in a workplace is far more challenging.

    The Ecumenical Movement has been developing principles around how to deal with such circumstances since it started at the Edinburgh Missionary Conference in 1910.

    Being on the "secular" side of the sacred-secular divide was interesting - it means that there were all sorts of people, removed from the Church situation, and my contacts list was around 100 individuals with known church affiliation. But they were in the habit of relating in terms of "work", not often in terms of "thinking about work using their faith".

    In the event, I adopted a policy of saying the traditioaln "grace" - "in the name of the Father, the Son etc" which is in everyone's Bible, and a set of emphases from a book about ecumenism written by George Carey. So, a policy of identifying by the centre, and not by defining edges.

    For the team event, I would aim to do similar.

    Politically, you'll note that the sectarians of whatever stripe - whether Yaxley-Lennon, Jenrick, JD Vance, or Islamists drive wedges and create division to drive hostility and division, not dialogue and respect.

    Lying about the "other" is easy to get away with if you succeed in driving wedges by talking to your target ethnic group. Jenrick going to an ethnic area of Birmingham to create his film about dirty immigrants with rubbish in the streets, whilst saying nothing about his Government, and him personally, having shredded resources for local authorities, sticks out a mile.
    Should be no catering to religion at work , any halfwit who does not like it can piss off. practice their religion all they want in their own house otherwise Foff.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,475
    Thelakes said:

    Yes long term decline
    No, it will result in the Glorious Rebirth Of The Second British Empire.

    Which will enslave Russia, this time. Just for the LOLs.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,242

    Aren't they convicted criminals serving sentences?
    Some (some likely terrorist murderers); most not.
    … Of the Palestinian prisoners released on Saturday, 333 had been captured or arrested in Gaza since the beginning of the war. They were taken straight to the territory. Thirty-six Palestinians serving life sentences in Israeli jails were also released. ..
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    If you believe civil war is going to break out in Britain in the next 5 years you are probably an Islamophobe.

    Or not right in the head
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,484

    “I think the people of this country have had enough of experts with organisations with acronyms saying that they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong.”
    H.M.G deserve more respect. Not all of them claim to be experts.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,475

    I know you're not asking me, but IMV yes. There are nutters on both (all?) sides of that particular conflict.
    I would suggest that there are between 6 and 12 sides to that conflict. Most of whom hate each other. Especially when they appear to on the same side.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,475
    ohnotnow said:

    H.M.G deserve more respect. Not all of them claim to be experts.
    Being an expert is like being cool, hard or intelligent.

    Anyone who claims it out loud, isn’t.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,074
    Discussion of RFK Jnr and Trimp's first anti-vaxx moves: https://sheenacruickshankimmunology.substack.com/p/vaccine-policy-changes-in-the-usa
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,484
    malcolmg said:

    You can always guarantee the islamaphobia card will be pulled out. Why is it a phobia not to like the pathetic ethics and mental rules of a religion that imprisons women , men can do as they wish biut women are for hiding in the house etc.
    Don't talk the Free Kirk down. Women are allowed out, just not on a Sunday.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,976
    Poor old Anas, his obvious talent and charisma dragged down by Starmer.

    https://x.com/marcuscarslaw1/status/1890855993753362487?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,475
    ohnotnow said:

    Don't talk the Free Kirk down. Women are allowed out, just not on a Sunday.
    Women allowed out?!! When did the Free embrace that kind of Papism?
  • So does nobody think that the Labour Party definition of Islamophobia is fit for law?

    I asked the question over an hour ago and there's been no response
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,290
    edited February 15

    Poor old Anas, his obvious talent and charisma dragged down by Starmer.

    https://x.com/marcuscarslaw1/status/1890855993753362487?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    SNP forecast to be down 9 MSPs on 2021 Holyrood election on that poll too, Tories down 13 seats and Labour down 4 with the biggest gainers, as in England and Wales projected to be Reform who would gain 15 MSPs.

    LDs up 9 to 13 MSPs and Greens up 2 to 10
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,290
    edited February 15

    So does nobody think that the Labour Party definition of Islamophobia is fit for law?

    I asked the question over an hour ago and there's been no response

    Clearly they don't
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,996
    Fishing said:

    I think we're further away from civil conflict now than we were in the period 2016-19, when the refusal or inability of a large part of the political class to implement the results of the largest vote in the nation's history, which they themselves had called and promised to implement, meant that the legitimacy of our democracy was under serious threat.

    And we're considerably further away than we were in the late 1970s, when tens of millions of days were lost to strikes, rubbish was piling high in Leicester Square, the dead were going unburied and Northern Ireland was being, well, Northern Ireland.

    But maybe I'm one of nature's optimists.
    It's different to 2016-19 I think, despite all the guff about the 'political class refusing to implement the vote'. Brexiteers (longstanding and newly converted by the result) had the votes in parliament to leave 2016-19 - they just couldn't find an exit deal they all wanted to vote for. A problem that was created by the referendum itself.

    Politicians were in many ways responding to the demands of their voters rather than ignoring them. MPs whose voters were largely Remain-leaning were never going to vote for the most radical Brexit deals because it would've a betrayal of them. A PM was never going to no deal and tank the economy. Brexiteers who thought their voters were motivated by ending immigration or leaving the CU refused to vote for a deal that they didn't believe achieved those things, because they saw that as a betrayal.

    The problem coming because a) Leaving the EU was a difficult thing to do - it was unwinding 40 years of relations and assumptions and b) The referendum, even in its 'out' result gave no clear mandate or roadmap to how that should be achieved or what it should entail. Brexit advocates who said we wouldn't have to leave the CU or SM suddenly became insistent that these were absolutely essential - again because they realised that this is what motivated their support.

    Ultimately it needed an election with two clear propositions (flawed as they were) of how to implement or revisit the vote on the table (2017 all parties were still indulging in wishful thinking), which is what we got in the end. For all the sound and fury, the political process worked through the problem and reached an outcome.

    The danger now is that post-pandemic an awful lot of people have become radicalised, notably but not exclusive to the conspiracist far right, with no real political process that's going to end in a tranche of people feeling completely alienated from fellow citizens they believe have become malignant.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,290
    edited February 15

    Agreed. Most PB posters are doing fine out of the current system. They are not affected by the growing void where much of society used to live their lives. The void where before you had people who did not have an extensive education or special talents, but could work hard and enjoy a comfortable existence. They could own their home and a car, go on holiday abroad, have kids, and still have some money left over for the occasional night out or nice dinner.

    For many that's gone now. They still work hard but can't even pay the bills any more. Buying a house is impossible, having kids would be a financial disaster, they're shopping at Aldi to make the budget last until the end of the month. They're driving a budget car they won't be afford to replace when it wears out because the government will have banned petrol and diesel cars. The electricity bill brings dread.

    They live next to that nice old lady who's slowly killing herself caring for a disabled husband and had her life ruined when the DWP sanctioned her for working a couple of hours a week in a shop to get money to keep the heating on.

    But they see their boss living in a six bedroom house, buying a £100,000 SUV, wearing a Rolex, going on holiday to five times a year and enjoying private healthcare. They see public sector 'climate advisors' and 'diversity champions' on near six figure salaries. They see CEOs earning as much in a day as they do in six months, CEOs who fail at their jobs and get paid millions to move on to another lucrative position.

    And I haven't even mentioned immigration or the dire state of public services.

    This is not a sustainable society, it's a recipe for revolution. The UK is maybe a decade from serious civil strife and a strongman who claims to have the answers, but other countries will get there in the near future. The US is just a canary in the coal mine.
    People get the governments they vote for and deserve, whether Tory and earlier Tory and LD, now Labour and maybe Reform next time, in whole or in part. Same as Americans voted freely for Obama, Trump, Biden and now Trump again.

    However as long as all adults are freely entitled to vote they are not entitled to engage in civil strife and the police and rule if law must be imposed on those that do engage in that.

    As for your statement, most of the population own a house still, 100 years ago most rented and most still manage to have a child even if the birthrate has fallen. UK voters also rejected twice Corbyn's hammer with tax the rich mantra you seem to desire
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,163
    A

    So does nobody think that the Labour Party definition of Islamophobia is fit for law?

    I asked the question over an hour ago and there's been no response

    Maybe provide a link to
    A) the definition you're talking about
    B) the law your talking about
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,484

    Women allowed out?!! When did the Free embrace that kind of Papism?
    The

    Women allowed out?!! When did the Free embrace that kind of Papism?
    They all had to attend a compulsory 7,000 hour-long HR course and lost the will.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,085
    MJW said:

    The danger now is that post-pandemic an awful lot of people have become radicalised, notably but not exclusive to the conspiracist far right, with no real political process that's going to end in a tranche of people feeling completely alienated from fellow citizens they believe have become malignant.

    Niel Fucking Farage and his fellow travelers won the Brexit vote by motivating people to blame others for their misfortune.

    They are still trying to ride that wave.

    The National Front appeared on Question Time once and were laughed off the air.

    If only we had done that to the Brexiteers
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,760
    Nigelb said:

    Somewhat under-reported.
    I’m moderately well read, but hadn’t heard of this.

    How to torch 220 billion euros
    https://www.siliconcontinent.com/p/how-to-incinerate-220-billion-euros
    In the depths of the COVID pandemic, with the ECB committed to keeping sovereign spreads low and the EU fiscal rules suspended, Italy launched what would become one of the costliest fiscal experiments in history. Prime Minister Conte announced that the government would subsidize 110% of the cost of housing renovations. The “SuperBonus,” as the policy was called, would improve energy efficiency and stimulate an economy that had barely grown in over two decades. Consumers would face neither economic nor liquidity constraints:

    In the construction sector we will introduce a Superbonus for the home: everyone will be able to renovate their homes to make them greener. You will not spend a penny for these renovations. (Giuseppe Conte, May 13, 2020).

    The state would pay homeowners 110% of the cost of renovating their properties through an innovative financial mechanism: rather than direct cash grants, the government issued tax credits that could be transferred. A homeowner could claim these credits directly against their taxes, have contractors claim them against invoices, or sell them to banks. These credits became a kind of fiscal currency – a parallel financial instrument that functioned as off-the-books debt (Capone and Stagnaro, 2024). The setup purposefully created the illusion of a free lunch: it hid the cost to the government, as for European accounting purposes the credits would show up only as lost tax revenue rather than new spending.

    The SuperBonus created the conditions for what Draghi's Minister of Economy Daniele Franco called “one of the largest frauds in the history of the Republic ” (Capone and Stagnaro, 2024). Contractors often inflated renovation costs; for instance, a €50,000 project might be reported as €100,000. The bank would purchase the €110,000 tax credit at near face value, enabling the contractor to pocket the difference, sometimes sharing it with the homeowner. At times, no work at all was carried out, in which case, invoices for non-existent work on fake buildings were a perfect tool for organized financial crime. Fraudulent credits could then be resold multiple times in an unregulated market of state-backed tax discounts​. In 2023, authorities estimated that such fraudulent activities had cost taxpayers €15 billion.

    By 2024, it was clear that the lunch was, of course, anything but free. Builders were going around offering to pay people money to renovate their houses. A scheme initially budgeted at €35 billion will end up costing Italian taxpayers €220 billion…

    Italian debt is 134% of GDP and I strongly suspect that does not include this nonsense. The ECB are so scared of default by a MS after the Greece fiasco they are turning a blind eye to everything. Sooner or later the Euro is going to pay a price for this.
  • ThelakesThelakes Posts: 83
    MJW said:

    It's different to 2016-19 I think, despite all the guff about the 'political class refusing to implement the vote'. Brexiteers (longstanding and newly converted by the result) had the votes in parliament to leave 2016-19 - they just couldn't find an exit deal they all wanted to vote for. A problem that was created by the referendum itself.

    Politicians were in many ways responding to the demands of their voters rather than ignoring them. MPs whose voters were largely Remain-leaning were never going to vote for the most radical Brexit deals because it would've a betrayal of them. A PM was never going to no deal and tank the economy. Brexiteers who thought their voters were motivated by ending immigration or leaving the CU refused to vote for a deal that they didn't believe achieved those things, because they saw that as a betrayal.

    The problem coming because a) Leaving the EU was a difficult thing to do - it was unwinding 40 years of relations and assumptions and b) The referendum, even in its 'out' result gave no clear mandate or roadmap to how that should be achieved or what it should entail. Brexit advocates who said we wouldn't have to leave the CU or SM suddenly became insistent that these were absolutely essential - again because they realised that this is what motivated their support.

    Ultimately it needed an election with two clear propositions (flawed as they were) of how to implement or revisit the vote on the table (2017 all parties were still indulging in wishful thinking), which is what we got in the end. For all the sound and fury, the political process worked through the problem and reached an outcome.

    The danger now is that post-pandemic an awful lot of people have become radicalised, notably but not exclusive to the conspiracist far right, with no real political process that's going to end in a tranche of people feeling completely alienated from fellow citizens they believe have become malignant.
    Was it really a good idea to have people locked away for months on end with nothing to do but get into conspiracies on social media.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,161
    Scott_xP said:

    Niel Fucking Farage and his fellow travelers won the Brexit vote by motivating people to blame others for their misfortune.

    They are still trying to ride that wave.

    The National Front appeared on Question Time once and were laughed off the air.

    If only we had done that to the Brexiteers
    Yes if only Nigel Farage had appeared on Question Time…
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,765
    edited February 15

    Agreed. Most PB posters are doing fine out of the current system. They are not affected by the growing void where much of society used to live their lives. The void where before you had people who did not have an extensive education or special talents, but could work hard and enjoy a comfortable existence. They could own their home and a car, go on holiday abroad, have kids, and still have some money left over for the occasional night out or nice dinner.

    For many that's gone now. They still work hard but can't even pay the bills any more. Buying a house is impossible, having kids would be a financial disaster, they're shopping at Aldi to make the budget last until the end of the month. They're driving a budget car they won't be afford to replace when it wears out because the government will have banned petrol and diesel cars. The electricity bill brings dread.

    They live next to that nice old lady who's slowly killing herself caring for a disabled husband and had her life ruined when the DWP sanctioned her for working a couple of hours a week in a shop to get money to keep the heating on.

    But they see their boss living in a six bedroom house, buying a £100,000 SUV, wearing a Rolex, going on holiday to five times a year and enjoying private healthcare. They see public sector 'climate advisors' and 'diversity champions' on near six figure salaries. They see CEOs earning as much in a day as they do in six months, CEOs who fail at their jobs and get paid millions to move on to another lucrative position.

    And I haven't even mentioned immigration or the dire state of public services.

    This is not a sustainable society, it's a recipe for revolution. The UK is maybe a decade from serious civil strife and a strongman who claims to have the answers, but other countries will get there in the near future. The US is just a canary in the coal mine.
    That might be the perception.

    But for most people hosting costs are a low proportion of their incomes, particularly compared with other countries. A large proportion own outright, and as an issue it barely registers in polling.

    Crime continues to fall, with the exception of fraud and sexual assault. The costs of fuel and the purchase price of cars has fallen in real terms (offset somewhat by insurance).

    Public sector pay had grown more slowly than the private sector, with large real terms cuts in health. A functional NHS is the second biggest priority for people after the economy.

    There is widespread support for the switch to renewables, including among Reform voters, and an understanding that fossil fuels are the underlying reason for high energy prices.

    The fact is there are not enough people in the kind of financial or social peril you describe, and those that are are generally highly unlikely to take to the streets. Instead, they post furiously on Facebook and occupy an online bubble.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,378

    The theoretical underpinning of the argument is that the state is losing legitimacy in the eyes of the majority population group whose position in society is being downgraded, so that doesn’t follow.
    What, did Starmer rig the last election then?
    If people want the current government gone and replaced by a Trumpian one they have the opportunity to do so in four years. Nobody wants a f**ing civil war.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,930
    Eabhal said:

    That might be the perception.

    But for most people hosting costs are a low proportion of their incomes, particularly compared with other countries. A large proportion own outright, and as an issue it barely registers in polling.

    Crime continues to fall, with the exception of fraud and sexual assault. The costs of fuel and the purchase price of cars has fallen in real terms (offset somewhat by insurance).

    Public sector pay had grown more slowly than the private sector, with large real terms cuts in health. A functional NHS is the second biggest priority for people after the economy.

    There is widespread support for the switch to renewables, including among Reform voters, and an understanding that fossil fuels are the underlying reason for high energy prices.

    The fact is there are not enough people in the kind of financial or social peril you describe, and those that are are generally highly unlikely to take to the streets. Instead, they post furiously on Facebook and occupy an online bubble.
    Talk of revolution seems to be coming exclusively from middle-class elements of the British Right who still haven't got over the fact that Brexit and Liz Truss didn't solve all their problems.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,914

    I think that the major parties will not depart from their trajectory. They’ve found a hill to die upon.

    This won’t lead to civil war. It will mean that Reform type people will enter power, to some degree.

    Which will make things worse.
    Just to make things clear, I am certainly not predicting civil war. I am predicting hard/far right governments in several European countries, enacting very harsh policies which will trigger *some* civil strife
  • HYUFD said:

    As for your statement, most of the population own a house still, 100 years ago most rented and most still manage to have a child even if the birthrate has fallen. UK voters also rejected twice Corbyn's hammer with tax the rich mantra you seem to desire

    I said nothing about hammering the rich. That's part of the problem, these days if you try to tax the rich too much they simply go somewhere else or hire consultants to ensure they don't pay that tax.

    There's nothing wrong with being wealthy. There's nothing wrong with being uber rich, either. But increasingly that's coming at the expense of people lower down the pole - the statistics are pretty clear that money is concentrating in fewer and fewer hands.

    Frankly I have no idea how to fix any of the problems I outlined.

  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,996
    Scott_xP said:

    Niel Fucking Farage and his fellow travelers won the Brexit vote by motivating people to blame others for their misfortune.

    They are still trying to ride that wave.

    The National Front appeared on Question Time once and were laughed off the air.

    If only we had done that to the Brexiteers
    I actually think Farage is the least of our worries to be honest. For all his faults - and they are many - he's generally been within the traditional strand of xenophobic British politics. Which has always been there, always will be. I don't like it, you don't like it, but it reflects some of public opinion and fits within the past norms of British politics. Hence why he's keen to draw red lines against the likes ofa conspiracist outright racist grifter like 'Tommy' Robinson.

    The worry is that some of those who see Farage and Reform as their meal ticket to the big time believe far nastier, madder and more dangerous things than Farage does.
  • kamski said:

    A

    Maybe provide a link to
    A) the definition you're talking about
    B) the law your talking about
    Find your own links

    It's the official Labour Party definition, adopted from the All Party Parliamentary Group headed up by Streeting

    Angela Rayner has been put in charge of defining Islamophobia

    Under Labour law, any insinuation that rape gangs might have a rather high Muslim element is Islamophobia
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,378
    If you drew a venn diagram with people predicting a civil war and those who think SYL is a misunderstood, British patriot the two sets will largely overlap.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,026

    Discussion of RFK Jnr and Trimp's first anti-vaxx moves: https://sheenacruickshankimmunology.substack.com/p/vaccine-policy-changes-in-the-usa

    The USA was once declared free of measles (no cases in 12 months).

    They have now had 20-odd cases reported in Texas this week. Mostly children.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,475
    edited February 15

    What, did Starmer rig the last election then?
    If people want the current government gone and replaced by a Trumpian one they have the opportunity to do so in four years. Nobody wants a f**ing civil war.
    They don’t want a civil war.

    They want answers. They want something done. They wanted the garbage collected, the pot holes filled. They’d like a doctor with appointments and even a dentist.

    For many decades, the politicians have bleated about The Will of The People being paramount.

    So the people voted Starmer & Co. in to change things.

    If they don’t do the job, NEXT!!!

    I suppose this is frightening to career politicians who believe their parties own votes the way medieval lords owned peasants.
  • WinchyWinchy Posts: 130
    edited February 15
    Eabhal said:

    That might be the perception.

    But for most people hosting costs are a low proportion of their incomes, particularly compared with other countries. A large proportion own outright, and as an issue it barely registers in polling.

    Crime continues to fall, with the exception of fraud and sexual assault. The costs of fuel and the purchase price of cars has fallen in real terms (offset somewhat by insurance).

    Public sector pay had grown more slowly than the private sector, with large real terms cuts in health. A functional NHS is the second biggest priority for people after the economy.

    There is widespread support for the switch to renewables, including among Reform voters, and an understanding that fossil fuels are the underlying reason for high energy prices.

    The fact is there are not enough people in the kind of financial or social peril you describe, and those that are are generally highly unlikely to take to the streets. Instead, they post furiously on Facebook and occupy an online bubble.
    Few in Britain compare their housing costs with people's in other countries. (Or how university entrance works, etc. etc.) They do compare their situation with what their parents' was at their age, and many find they're paying rent whereas their parents might have been in hock up to their eyeballs to moneylenders but they were gradually working their way towards owning all the equity in a house, rather than just burning money to have shelter every month. Many young people think they'll never own a house. That wasn't so in 1975. There's a massive difference between having to have a landlord in your life and being free of that kind of relationship, secure that you'll never again be in it.

    Totally agree with your last 1.5 sentences though.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,505
    DavidL said:

    Italian debt is 134% of GDP and I strongly suspect that does not include this nonsense. The ECB are so scared of default by a MS after the Greece fiasco they are turning a blind eye to everything. Sooner or later the Euro is going to pay a price for this.
    And yet the scheme does substantially survive, though nowhere near 110% and I'm not sure how paid now.

    https://www.salonemilano.it/en/articoli/bonus-edilizi-2025#:~:text=The Superbonus is being phased,work, have now been terminated.
  • "Grooming gangs" is a seriously sick way of describing racist rape rings
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,026
    Scott_xP said:

    Niel Fucking Farage and his fellow travelers won the Brexit vote by motivating people to blame others for their misfortune.

    They are still trying to ride that wave.

    The National Front appeared on Question Time once and were laughed off the air.

    If only we had done that to the Brexiteers
    If only you'd taken the piss out of the side of a bus, eh?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,085

    They don’t want a civil war.

    Oh, some of them do.

    The ones that tried to set fire to a hotel they thought was housing immigrants for example.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,026

    "Grooming gangs" is a seriously sick way of describing racist rape rings

    Sorry, you can't talk about hair products here.
  • Sorry, you can't talk about hair products here.
    Oops

    Forgot that this place operates under Labour Party rules

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,776

    So does nobody think that the Labour Party definition of Islamophobia is fit for law?

    I asked the question over an hour ago and there's been no response

    I had a look at it. It's fine
  • WinchyWinchy Posts: 130
    edited February 15
    HYUFD said:

    People get the governments they vote for and deserve, whether Tory and earlier Tory and LD, now Labour and maybe Reform next time, in whole or in part. Same as Americans voted freely for Obama, Trump, Biden and now Trump again.

    However as long as all adults are freely entitled to vote they are not entitled to engage in civil strife and the police and rule if law must be imposed on those that do engage in that.

    As for your statement, most of the population own a house still, 100 years ago most rented and most still manage to have a child even if the birthrate has fallen. UK voters also rejected twice Corbyn's hammer with tax the rich mantra you seem to desire
    Renting and private sector renting in particular has risen, and the birthrate has fallen. I tend to think @Poodle is right to suggest the first change has been a sizeable factor in the second. Has there been any research into this? What are the academically-promulgated explanations for the fall in the birthrate?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,765
    Winchy said:

    Few in Britain compare their housing costs with people's in other countries. They do compare their situation with what their parents' was at their age, and many find they're paying rent whereas their parents might have been in hock up to their eyeballs to moneylenders but they were gradually working their way towards owning all the equity in a house, rather than just burning money to have shelter every month. Many young people think they'll never own a house. There's a massive difference between having to have a landlord in your life and being free of that kind of relationship, secure that you'll never again be in it.

    Totally agree with your last 1.5 sentences though.
    That's absolutely true, and I agree entirely with you sentiments. But it simply does not impact enough people. The bank of mum and dad is generous and my family has entrenched that intergenerational inequality like so many others.

    The number of people renting has certainly crept up - but so has the number of people owning outright. There is no incentive for most people, including even me, to risk upsetting the applecart.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,778
    GIN1138 said:

    Tony and Jarvis did Coke in Number 10?
    The plot of "Iron Man" is obviously different to my memories...
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,765
    Winchy said:

    Renting and private sector renting in particular has risen, and the birthrate has fallen. I tend to think @Poodle is right to suggest the first change has been a sizeable factor in the second. Has there been any research into this? What are the academically-promulgated explanations for the fall in the birthrate?
    Last time I checked, women wanting more out of life than kids was the biggest and likely insurmountable reason.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,475
    Scott_xP said:

    Oh, some of them do.

    The ones that tried to set fire to a hotel they thought was housing immigrants for example.
    That’s a number so small you need a microscope to find them.

    Most people just want stuff to work and a pay rise that’s ahead of inflation. Not fascism.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,692
    edited February 15
    RIP Blanche! :(
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,497
    pigeon said:

    The solution to the increasingly stretched and threadbare state is therefore, amongst other things, expressly not to keep jacking up income tax and national insurance, but to end the excessively lenient treatment of assets. That, and to better target benefits and tax breaks on those who really need it.

    An older society is a poorer society, but that would be a lot easier to manage if more of the burden was shifted away from work and put onto capital, and if large quantities of tax receipts weren't needlessly squandered. To return to one of my favourite topics, I care about skint old people having enough to eat, but I'm against propping up the spending power of rich old people with taxation and wealth transfers that erode the living standards of poorer, younger ones. The hikes in taxes on work to raise billions to subsidise the booking of cruise holidays by asset millionaire pensioners must be stopped.
    There though you have the problem that rich old people have the sort of assets held by most mp's and senior public sector workers and mp's have twigged we might get a little tetchy if its tax these assets unless you are a member of parliament or in the public sector
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,242
    ohnotnow said:

    It's almost the opposite of the UK where we underinvested and now need to spend 10x.
    It’s worse than that.

    It’s a systemic problem with the European fiscal/monetary mechanisms.

    … But the Superbonus illustrates a deeper problem facing Europe: the traditional mechanisms for fiscal discipline have broken down. Market forces (the bond buyers) have been neutralized by ECB intervention. The European Commission's fiscal rules, already weakened by repeated violations from large countries like France and Germany, are being replaced by new rules that, since they rely on bilateral bargaining, provide little real constraint. And domestic political systems, freed from market pressure, increasingly treat debt-financed spending as a free lunch.

    This erosion of discipline isn't limited to Italy. France's deficit has drifted to 6.1% of GDP. Spain reversed its post crisis pension reform right around the time Italy was passing the Superbonus, with much larger negative consequences for fiscal sustainability. In a world where the ECB will always intervene to prevent bond market pressure and Brussels cannot credibly enforce fiscal rules on large states, sustainable fiscal policy becomes politically almost impossible.

    The very mechanisms designed to protect the euro may now be undermining it. When the ECB steps in to prevent market pressure on sovereign bonds, it removes a crucial disciplining force on national fiscal policies, creating perverse incentives for politicians to expand spending without regard for long-term sustainability. A currency union without fiscal union can only work if member states maintain sustainable spending policies. But Europe now finds itself caught in a trap of its own making: its crisis-fighting tools are steadily eroding the discipline necessary for the euro's survival…
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,497

    If you believe civil war is going to break out in Britain in the next 5 years you are probably an Islamophobe.

    Don't be daft. Civil war doesn't necessarily mean its every v muslims.....frankly I suspect if a civil war breaks out much more likely to be the have nots vs the idiots in parliament
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,938
    GIN1138 said:

    RIP Blanche! :(

    Jeez
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,163

    Find your own links

    It's the official Labour Party definition, adopted from the All Party Parliamentary Group headed up by Streeting

    Angela Rayner has been put in charge of defining Islamophobia

    Under Labour law, any insinuation that rape gangs might have a rather high Muslim element is Islamophobia
    Huh? You ask a vague question, complain that nobody has answered. I ask for clarification and you still don't want to provide any links to what you are talking about. I don't even know what you mean by "Labour law".

    That's why nobody has answered your question.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,686
    Oh...

    Dale Vince
    @DaleVince
    ·
    9h
    Reform don’t want a net-zero future apparently.

    But two of their most senior people are investors in the industry…?

    https://x.com/DaleVince/status/1890740117922361543
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,760
    Interesting innovations from the MOD (have I just written that?) developing drone boats and subs for anti submarine warfare: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-planning-fleet-of-drone-vessels-to-patrol-atlantic/

    I think its increasingly likely that the next tank will not have a human crew. Humans are just too slow and vulnerable to survive on the modern battlefield. I very much hope we are learning a lot from the incredible speed of development of drones in Ukraine.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,505
    The usual cycle. May locals look brutal for the Tories.

    Not only are they doing over 2/3 of the ward defences, but they are defending their high water mark and Labour's low showing of 2021. Recent by-elections suggests the Tories are around 12 points down on 2021, and Labour only 8-9 points down.

    The Tories are likely to lose substantial seats to the LDs, to Reform and even possibly some to Labour.

    (Note, that current local by-elections are almost totally re-runs of 2022-24, with Labour defending a higher base and the Tories lower - meaning Labour 15 points down, Tories only 4 down).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,976
    GIN1138 said:

    RIP Blanche! :(

    Call VP Vance!
    Yer can’t even discuss subjects yer were expressly told not to on someone else’s website any more,
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,778
    I thought "sod it" and went to see "Captain America: Brave New World". It...wasn't bad. It proceeded logically, if a bit bitty, and perhaps it may have had one too many endings, but...yeah, it was OK. The CGI was more spectacular than realistic, which I like but most don't, and it left out ONE OBVIOUS MUSICAL CUE, but apart from that it was OK. Nowhere near as good as CW:TWS, but about as good as CW:TFA and better than, say, Thor:TDW. About "Black Widow" level if a bit more and I enjoyed it.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,938
    DavidL said:

    Interesting innovations from the MOD (have I just written that?) developing drone boats and subs for anti submarine warfare: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-planning-fleet-of-drone-vessels-to-patrol-atlantic/

    I think its increasingly likely that the next tank will not have a human crew. Humans are just too slow and vulnerable to survive on the modern battlefield. I very much hope we are learning a lot from the incredible speed of development of drones in Ukraine.

    If we're not others are

  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 561
    Has Blanche gone postal?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,161
    Nigelb said:

    It’s worse than that.

    It’s a systemic problem with the European fiscal/monetary mechanisms.

    … But the Superbonus illustrates a deeper problem facing Europe: the traditional mechanisms for fiscal discipline have broken down. Market forces (the bond buyers) have been neutralized by ECB intervention. The European Commission's fiscal rules, already weakened by repeated violations from large countries like France and Germany, are being replaced by new rules that, since they rely on bilateral bargaining, provide little real constraint. And domestic political systems, freed from market pressure, increasingly treat debt-financed spending as a free lunch.

    This erosion of discipline isn't limited to Italy. France's deficit has drifted to 6.1% of GDP. Spain reversed its post crisis pension reform right around the time Italy was passing the Superbonus, with much larger negative consequences for fiscal sustainability. In a world where the ECB will always intervene to prevent bond market pressure and Brussels cannot credibly enforce fiscal rules on large states, sustainable fiscal policy becomes politically almost impossible.

    The very mechanisms designed to protect the euro may now be undermining it. When the ECB steps in to prevent market pressure on sovereign bonds, it removes a crucial disciplining force on national fiscal policies, creating perverse incentives for politicians to expand spending without regard for long-term sustainability. A currency union without fiscal union can only work if member states maintain sustainable spending policies. But Europe now finds itself caught in a trap of its own making: its crisis-fighting tools are steadily eroding the discipline necessary for the euro's survival…
    One of the main Brexit arguments that’s largely been forgotten now is that it will be better to be free of Brussels when the next Eurozone crisis hits.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,686
    Very well alone latest:



    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    34m
    OBSERVER; Starmer set to join Europe crisis summit on Trump Ukraine plan #TomorrowsPapersToday
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,838

    Oh...

    Dale Vince
    @DaleVince
    ·
    9h
    Reform don’t want a net-zero future apparently.

    But two of their most senior people are investors in the industry…?

    https://x.com/DaleVince/status/1890740117922361543

    That just shows how uncorruptible they are: even though their senior figures would benefit, they aren't willing to sell the British public short.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,161
    Battlebus said:

    Has Blanche gone postal?

    The postman’s always banned twice.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,143
    edited February 15
    Eabhal said:

    That might be the perception.

    But for most people hosting costs are a low proportion of their incomes, particularly compared with other countries. A large proportion own outright, and as an issue it barely registers in polling.

    Crime continues to fall, with the exception of fraud and sexual assault. The costs of fuel and the purchase price of cars has fallen in real terms (offset somewhat by insurance).

    Public sector pay had grown more slowly than the private sector, with large real terms cuts in health. A functional NHS is the second biggest priority for people after the economy.

    There is widespread support for the switch to renewables, including among Reform voters, and an understanding that fossil fuels are the underlying reason for high energy prices.

    The fact is there are not enough people in the kind of financial or social peril you describe, and those that are are generally highly unlikely to take to the streets. Instead, they post furiously on Facebook and occupy an online bubble.
    You're being utterly naïve if you believe what you write.

    Yes a large proportion own outright, but that's a large proportion who bought decades ago when it was affordable.

    For young people, it is a much smaller proportion and the situation has been trending worse.

    Fuel and other things have been getting better, yes, which is a good thing to be welcomed; but housing is the massive exception to the trend of everything else, utterly dwarfing it if you don't own your own home and leaving a massive divide of the haves and have-nots, not based on income, but based on do you need to pay current market rates for a roof over your head - or not?

    Of course many make a racket out of the current system, living off rents paid by their tenants rather than paying rent themselves.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,686
    rcs1000 said:

    That just shows how uncorruptible they are: even though their senior figures would benefit, they aren't willing to sell the British public short.
    I thought you loved solar panels?
  • They want answers. They want something done. They wanted the garbage collected, the pot holes filled. They’d like a doctor with appointments and even a dentist.

    Spot on. The tories showed no signs of being able to fix those problems, so people voted Labour.

    Labour show no sign of being able to fix them either, so Reform are shooting up in the polls despite being a bunch of dodgy weirdos lead by someone much of the country knows is a waste of space.

    We are cursed with politicians who seem to be terrified of trying to solve problems. Labour will dither and spin for five years, then get kicked out.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,497
    HYUFD said:

    People get the governments they vote for and deserve, whether Tory and earlier Tory and LD, now Labour and maybe Reform next time, in whole or in part. Same as Americans voted freely for Obama, Trump, Biden and now Trump again.

    However as long as all adults are freely entitled to vote they are not entitled to engage in civil strife and the police and rule if law must be imposed on those that do engage in that.

    As for your statement, most of the population own a house still, 100 years ago most rented and most still manage to have a child even if the birthrate has fallen. UK voters also rejected twice Corbyn's hammer with tax the rich mantra you seem to desire
    Stop talking bollocks, last election almost 50% of people didn't vote...I didn't vote because every single person I could of voted for was a worthless piece of shit as was the party they belonged to. If you walk into a restaurant and can only order a shit sandwich or a shit pizza is not a reason to tell people its their own fault they are hungry as they could have ordered
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,085
    @annmarie

    “A group of European countries has been quietly working on a plan to send troops into Ukraine to help enforce any future peace settlement with Russia. Britain and France are at the forefront of the effort, though details remain scarce.”

    https://x.com/annmarie/status/1890878703334515095
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,838
    Pagan2 said:

    Sadly I think you are wrong, people here are mostly top 10% the world as it is works for them. There is growing anger and I am not top 10% I mix with these people daily. I think reform will be tried first then when it doesn't work as it wont then it will become civil conflict...the bottom 50% really don't have anything to lose

    Here is an example, people here go on about people like nurses having to use a food bank....fair enough then they go on in other posts going lets just add a couple of percent on income tax....yeah well that person on min wage already struggling is going to have 20£ less each month.....2% extra for most here means I will buy a cheaper bottle of wine
    One only has to look around the genuinely poor countries of the world to realize that the bottom 50% (who have clean water, education, electricity, iphones, healthcare, and food on the table) certainly do have things to lose.

    I'm not saying that the bottom 50% have not been mistreated, but it is delusional to think that things could not be an awful lot worse for them.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,976

    Very well alone latest:



    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    34m
    OBSERVER; Starmer set to join Europe crisis summit on Trump Ukraine plan #TomorrowsPapersToday

    And not say anything of note that might upset Donald I wager.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,686
    It 'aint exactly FDR 100 days love...


    The White House
    @WhiteHouse
    President Trump is making history!🇺🇸

    🏈POTUS attends Super Bowl
    🇺🇸Gulf of America
    🚫No more paper straws
    🤝11 hostages freed in 4 weeks
    ⚙️Steel/aluminum tariffs
    💪Make America Healthy Again Commission
    ⛽National Energy Dominance Council

    @PressSec explains in this MAGA Minute!

    https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1890543988714717480
  • The postman’s always banned twice.


    Viz, in memory of Blanche.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,085

    It 'aint exactly FDR 100 days love...

    The Mango Mussolini has put his mugshot in a frame outside the oval office
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,959
    edited February 15
    Scott_xP said:

    @annmarie

    “A group of European countries has been quietly working on a plan to send troops into Ukraine to help enforce any future peace settlement with Russia. Britain and France are at the forefront of the effort, though details remain scarce.”

    https://x.com/annmarie/status/1890878703334515095

    "The talks built on an idea promoted by French President Emmanuel Macron in early 2024."

    Seems like not just Trump that wanted the war over ASAP.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,760
    Nigelb said:

    It’s worse than that.

    It’s a systemic problem with the European fiscal/monetary mechanisms.

    … But the Superbonus illustrates a deeper problem facing Europe: the traditional mechanisms for fiscal discipline have broken down. Market forces (the bond buyers) have been neutralized by ECB intervention. The European Commission's fiscal rules, already weakened by repeated violations from large countries like France and Germany, are being replaced by new rules that, since they rely on bilateral bargaining, provide little real constraint. And domestic political systems, freed from market pressure, increasingly treat debt-financed spending as a free lunch.

    This erosion of discipline isn't limited to Italy. France's deficit has drifted to 6.1% of GDP. Spain reversed its post crisis pension reform right around the time Italy was passing the Superbonus, with much larger negative consequences for fiscal sustainability. In a world where the ECB will always intervene to prevent bond market pressure and Brussels cannot credibly enforce fiscal rules on large states, sustainable fiscal policy becomes politically almost impossible.

    The very mechanisms designed to protect the euro may now be undermining it. When the ECB steps in to prevent market pressure on sovereign bonds, it removes a crucial disciplining force on national fiscal policies, creating perverse incentives for politicians to expand spending without regard for long-term sustainability. A currency union without fiscal union can only work if member states maintain sustainable spending policies. But Europe now finds itself caught in a trap of its own making: its crisis-fighting tools are steadily eroding the discipline necessary for the euro's survival…
    That was basically what I was hinting at. The ECB has lost control of the finances of Euro members who have used a variety of means to subvert fiscal discipline to keep their economies growing. I think that a major Euro crisis is now inevitable. The ECB are surviving using the threat of interventions to penalise those seeking to short sovereign bonds but sooner or later their bluff will be called and all hell will break loose. It reminds me of the run up to Black Wednesday for the UK but on a much larger scale.

    That and the ongoing property crisis in China are, IMV, the 2 largest threats to world stability at the moment and yet we spend all our time worrying about Trump.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,415
    DavidL said:

    Interesting innovations from the MOD (have I just written that?) developing drone boats and subs for anti submarine warfare: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-planning-fleet-of-drone-vessels-to-patrol-atlantic/

    I think its increasingly likely that the next tank will not have a human crew. Humans are just too slow and vulnerable to survive on the modern battlefield. I very much hope we are learning a lot from the incredible speed of development of drones in Ukraine.

    Terrible though war is, it is the main generator of technical innovation.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,505
    GIN1138 said:

    RIP Blanche! :(

    He would walk 500 miles
    And he would walk 500 more
    And when he meets the ban hammer
    He'll be no more Blanche Livermore
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,182
    edited February 15
    Pagan2 said:

    Stop talking bollocks, last election almost 50% of people didn't vote...I didn't vote because every single person I could of voted for was a worthless piece of shit as was the party they belonged to. If you walk into a restaurant and can only order a shit sandwich or a shit pizza is not a reason to tell people its their own fault they are hungry as they could have ordered
    You have the right to vote. What you don't have is the right to have your chosen candidate win. If there was no one who you agreed with then you can stand yourself. There were more Independent MPs elected at this last GE than at an GE since 1950.

    If 50% didn't vote then they have no right to moan about the outcome. Or rather they have the right to moan but we have the perfect excuse to ignore them. But of course voting means taking some responsibility and we all know that too many people would rather do nothing and moan than do something and have to take responsibility for their actions.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,692
    Pro_Rata said:

    He would walk 500 miles
    And he would walk 500 more
    And when he meets the ban hammer
    He'll be no more Blanche Livermore
    LOL!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,085

    Terrible though war is, it is the main generator of technical innovation.

    Is that true?

    I know that war is a major generator of technical innovation, but which of the myriad inventions that came out of Xerox Parc for example were driven by war?

    Which war is driving Apple right now?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,475
    a
    Pagan2 said:

    Stop talking bollocks, last election almost 50% of people didn't vote...I didn't vote because every single person I could of voted for was a worthless piece of shit as was the party they belonged to. If you walk into a restaurant and can only order a shit sandwich or a shit pizza is not a reason to tell people its their own fault they are hungry as they could have ordered
    Aside from the Goode Olde Days of The Rentman, with everyone hiding, to pretend they were out…

    Modern housing in much of the UK consumes a huge portion of the wages of young working people. They are living to pay their mortgage or someone else’s.

    This is spreading up the wealth column. With juniors in banks, in London, now have no prospect of owning more than a one bed flat in an okish location.

    Generation Rent won’t be able to retire. Because they won’t have saved any money to pay the rent. Because it all went on the rent.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,261

    Agreed. Most PB posters are doing fine out of the current system. They are not affected by the growing void where much of society used to live their lives. The void where before you had people who did not have an extensive education or special talents, but could work hard and enjoy a comfortable existence. They could own their home and a car, go on holiday abroad, have kids, and still have some money left over for the occasional night out or nice dinner.

    For many that's gone now. They still work hard but can't even pay the bills any more. Buying a house is impossible, having kids would be a financial disaster, they're shopping at Aldi to make the budget last until the end of the month. They're driving a budget car they won't be afford to replace when it wears out because the government will have banned petrol and diesel cars. The electricity bill brings dread.

    They live next to that nice old lady who's slowly killing herself caring for a disabled husband and had her life ruined when the DWP sanctioned her for working a couple of hours a week in a shop to get money to keep the heating on.

    But they see their boss living in a six bedroom house, buying a £100,000 SUV, wearing a Rolex, going on holiday to five times a year and enjoying private healthcare. They see public sector 'climate advisors' and 'diversity champions' on near six figure salaries. They see CEOs earning as much in a day as they do in six months, CEOs who fail at their jobs and get paid millions to move on to another lucrative position.

    And I haven't even mentioned immigration or the dire state of public services.

    This is not a sustainable society, it's a recipe for revolution. The UK is maybe a decade from serious civil strife and a strongman who claims to have the answers, but other countries will get there in the near future. The US is just a canary in the coal mine.
    What's new? A decent chunk of the population have always lived financially precarious or poverty stricken lives - I remember when we had four million unemployed - and we've not had a revolution yet.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,765

    You're being utterly naïve if you believe what you write.

    Yes a large proportion own outright, but that's a large proportion who bought decades ago when it was affordable.

    For young people, it is a much smaller proportion and the situation has been trending worse.

    Fuel and other things have been getting better, yes, which is a good thing to be welcomed; but housing is the massive exception to the trend of everything else, utterly dwarfing it if you don't own your own home and leaving a massive divide of the haves and have-nots, not based on income, but based on do you need to pay current market rates for a roof over your head - or not?

    Of course many make a racket out of the current system, living off rents paid by their tenants rather than paying rent themselves.
    You have an unhappy habit of confusing what I state as facts with what I believe should be the case.
  • Terrible though war is, it is the main generator of technical innovation.
    Trouble is it is only a question of time before the bad guys realise they can use cheap drones for protests or domestic terrorism. Then we might wish we'd buried cables underground!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,415


    You have the right to vote. What you don't have is the right to have your chosen candidate win. If there was no one who you agreed with then you can stand yourself. There were more Independent MPs elected at this last GE than at an GE since 1950.

    If 50% didn't vote then they have no right to moan about the outcome. Or rather they have the right to moan but we have the perfect excuse to ignore them. But of course voting means taking some responsibility and we all know that too many people would rather do nothing and moan than do something and have to take responsibility for their actions.
    If you think every candidate is shit, you also have the right to stand yourself. If 50% think all the other candidates are shit, you may well get elected.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,959
    edited February 15
    Scott_xP said:

    Is that true?

    I know that war is a major generator of technical innovation, but which of the myriad inventions that came out of Xerox Parc for example were driven by war?

    Which war is driving Apple right now?
    What massive technical innovation have Apple managed in the past 10 years? VR failed, Self Driving Car failed, the M chips are all based upon ARM, things like the much improved screen tech is Samsung. And not to say they are absolutely no where with LLM / generative AI (having to rely on API keys to OpenAI work).
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,497
    rcs1000 said:

    One only has to look around the genuinely poor countries of the world to realize that the bottom 50% (who have clean water, education, electricity, iphones, healthcare, and food on the table) certainly do have things to lose.

    I'm not saying that the bottom 50% have not been mistreated, but it is delusional to think that things could not be an awful lot worse for them.
    But in western countries they take those things for granted and it would be a brave western government that said to the poorer people no taps there are puddles you can drink from. The bottom 50% here are getting angrier which is why I think reform might be the 2029 vote and reform will fail then what happens as I am pretty sure lib dem, tory, lab won't be the answer they will go for
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,965
    Winchy said:

    Renting and private sector renting in particular has risen, and the birthrate has fallen. I tend to think @Poodle is right to suggest the first change has been a sizeable factor in the second. Has there been any research into this? What are the academically-promulgated explanations for the fall in the birthrate?
    I think that plastic is the cause of the fall in the birthrate.


    Many plastics use phthalates as softeners. Phthalates mimic oestrogen and have a feminising effect, more than halving sperm counts.
    PVC is the worst offender.
  • a

    Aside from the Goode Olde Days of The Rentman, with everyone hiding, to pretend they were out…

    Modern housing in much of the UK consumes a huge portion of the wages of young working people. They are living to pay their mortgage or someone else’s.

    This is spreading up the wealth column. With juniors in banks, in London, now have no prospect of owning more than a one bed flat in an okish location.

    Generation Rent won’t be able to retire. Because they won’t have saved any money to pay the rent. Because it all went on the rent.
    Agreed about housing costs, whether mortgage or rent, taking a fair chunk from even dual-income households, but one odd thing is how many young, highly-paid professionals seem never to have heard of commuting and want to live within walking distance of the City or Canary Wharf, or at least within zones one or two.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,686
    Wild Saturday night prediction:

    bird flu will mutate to human-to-human transmission in America thanks to the indifference and RFK will block vaccination and Trump 2.0 will be imploded in the ensuing death and chaos.

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,497


    You have the right to vote. What you don't have is the right to have your chosen candidate win. If there was no one who you agreed with then you can stand yourself. There were more Independent MPs elected at this last GE than at an GE since 1950.

    If 50% didn't vote then they have no right to moan about the outcome. Or rather they have the right to moan but we have the perfect excuse to ignore them. But of course voting means taking some responsibility and we all know that too many people would rather do nothing and moan than do something and have to take responsibility for their actions.
    Sorry richard we often agree but I can't this time....the fact is most don't want to stand themselves....they just want a candidate that actually is in it for the people rather than themselves. A question...at what percentage of the eligible voting for a national parliament does that national parliament become questionable. Local government elections have dropped to about 25% participation because most people realise there is no point voting...increasingly people are seeing general elections in the same light
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,085

    Wild Saturday night prediction:

    bird flu will mutate to human-to-human transmission in America thanks to the indifference and RFK will block vaccination and Trump 2.0 will be imploded in the ensuing death and chaos.

    There are a number of scenarios that in a sane World would see the end of the Trump experiment

    -Mass outbreaks of preventable disease
    -Welfare checks (sic) being stopped by fratboys
    -Civil unrest

    Perhaps we should run a sweepstake, although I am not sure any of them will in fact move the dial
  • Wild Saturday night prediction:

    bird flu will mutate to human-to-human transmission in America thanks to the indifference and RFK will block vaccination and Trump 2.0 will be imploded in the ensuing death and chaos.

    What about AGI being achieved and we are all forced to comply with our AI overload.....
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,692

    Wild Saturday night prediction:

    bird flu will mutate to human-to-human transmission in America thanks to the indifference and RFK will block vaccination and Trump 2.0 will be imploded in the ensuing death and chaos.

    Lets hope not for all our sakes (would be a fitting way for Trump 2.0 to go down though)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    edited February 15
    ohnotnow said:

    Don't talk the Free Kirk down. Women are allowed out, just not on a Sunday.
    *Nobody* is allowed out, male, female, or whatever, at least in some Free Kirks, on Sunday [edit]..

    Except, very explicitly, for works of necessity or mercy - e.g. emergency help, or looking after those unable to do it for themselves, which includes milking the cows.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,415

    Wild Saturday night prediction:

    bird flu will mutate to human-to-human transmission in America thanks to the indifference and RFK will block vaccination and Trump 2.0 will be imploded in the ensuing death and chaos.

    Just think how apoplectic he will be when the rest of the world bans flights to and from the USA.
  • geoffw said:

    Jeez
    I thought she had died, but now I see...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,760

    One of the main Brexit arguments that’s largely been forgotten now is that it will be better to be free of Brussels when the next Eurozone crisis hits.
    I still support Brexit but anyone who thinks that a major monetary crisis in the EU would be a source of schadenfreude for us and not being in the EU would somehow make us immune to it is being dangerously naïve. It would trigger a severe recession here and, very likely, cause serious problems for our own sovereign debt. Yet another reason why a budget that increased our already high deficit was a major error.
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