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If it is the economy stupid then Labour should sink further in the polls – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 561

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,724
    70 mins is a better length for a rugby match.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,773
    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Labour to bring in votes for children.

    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1887959535123337501?s=61

    Don't like it, but it was a manifesto promise and simply done, so entirely expected.
    I don’t agree with it. But I’ll have to go along with it.
    "...in German how did he say it, Peter?"
  • biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    I maybe dying off soon but remember I voted remain !!!!

    It is very distasteful to wish death on those you do not agree with rather than win the argument
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    England try in the last minute looks like it may be enough to beat France
  • That was better than sex.
  • CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 561

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    This is free fantasy. A recent large sample MRP failed to identify a single constituency with a brexit majority in the UK. Furthermore no pollster has been able to identify anything but a rejoin majority for years. This was predicted from demographic projections already back 2016 and is confirmed by recent yougov polling.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,456
    edited February 8
    biggles said:

    TimS said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    37% is significantly more than Reform polling.

    Anyone still saying they think Brexit has been a success or were better off out is not going to change their mind now, and they are probably either Reform inclined or Reform curious.
    No. That’s just the caricature. Many like me voted on the principle of sovereignty, not on things like immigration. We’re not a constituency Reform appeals to, but we were part of the 14m Boris got. The right Tory leader could command that coalition; but Farage never will.
    It’s a reply though to a post expressing amazement that Reform polling is so high when Brexit support is so low. I’m pointing out that Brexit support is higher than Reform support. So it includes people like you.

    But the gap isn’t that big. So the bit of the Venn diagram of people who express support for Brexit but aren’t Reform supporters or curious is not huge.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,724

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,724
    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Labour to bring in votes for children.

    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1887959535123337501?s=61

    Don't like it, but it was a manifesto promise and simply done, so entirely expected.
    I don’t agree with it. But I’ll have to go along with it.
    "...in German how did he say it, Peter?"
    It’s war.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,080
    Haha - the rugby- amazing ending
  • I would have enjoyed the Wales result a lot more if England weren't about to be absolutely fuckwangled by France.

    Still Wales put in the worst performance against a side from Rome since the Battle of Zama.

    So I can now enjoy the Welsh result!!!

    Hahahahahahhahahaha, Wales.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081

    That was better than sex.

    I don't think you're doing it right...
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,911
    Taz said:

    At the risk of being Tazdamus I’m moving towards calling an England win.

    How’s about that then !!

    Called it 👍
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    Scott_xP said:

    That was better than sex.

    I don't think you're doing it right...
    Your boys took a hell of a beating.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,724
    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    TimS said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    37% is significantly more than Reform polling.

    Anyone still saying they think Brexit has been a success or were better off out is not going to change their mind now, and they are probably either Reform inclined or Reform curious.
    No. That’s just the caricature. Many like me voted on the principle of sovereignty, not on things like immigration. We’re not a constituency Reform appeals to, but we were part of the 14m Boris got. The right Tory leader could command that coalition; but Farage never will.
    It’s a reply though to a post expressing amazement that Reform polling is so high when Brexit support is so low. I’m pointing out that Brexit support is higher than Reform support. Don’t includes people like you.
    Yeah that’s fair. I was astonished Reform was doing so well until I clocked that much of its support is non-voters.

    In all the noise about Trump-ism, I think people are failing to spot that a charismatic, but competent and mainstream party could clean up in Britain. The Blair/Coalition/Boris votes are there.
  • Taz said:

    Taz said:

    At the risk of being Tazdamus I’m moving towards calling an England win.

    How’s about that then !!

    Called it 👍
    Pro tip, be modest and self effacing when reminding PBers you were right.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    This is free fantasy. A recent large sample MRP failed to identify a single constituency with a brexit majority in the UK. Furthermore no pollster has been able to identify anything but a rejoin majority for years. This was predicted from demographic projections already back 2016 and is confirmed by recent yougov polling.
    You are sad, pathetic, and desperate.

    Thankfully, we just rinsed your ilk in the 80th minute. Which was delicious.
  • Scott_xP said:

    That was better than sex.

    I don't think you're doing it right...
    It was up there with season three of Picard.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,313

    Scott_xP said:

    That was better than sex.

    I don't think you're doing it right...
    It was up there with season three of Picard.
    Another pro tip - don't try to give yourself too much cover when you're wrong!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think the single most important thing to understand about politics in most western countries today is the fact that the hyperliberals, or alt-liberals, have decided they're not going to compromise on anything. They'd rather go down to defeat to populists than make the slightest concessions. This is what happened with the Democrats and Trump.

    Like any such analysis, that works both ways.

    I could rewrite it and say that "The Right" hasn't decided to make any concessions to the Centre, and that they are responsible for "hyperliberalism".

    The polarization isn't just one sided, and to pick a side and blame them for causing it is just lazy.

    I would also point out that in 2023/2024, where the Nationalist/Populist Right was in power and faced an elections, they got hit too: see Brazil, India and Poland.

    It's almost like voters *everywhere* had a shitty time as economies emerged from Covid and dealt with the impacts of the Ukraine invasion on energy prices.
    Hyperliberalism is also in reality hyper wokeism and often quite intolerant of dissenting more traditional and socially conservative views. Wokeism is more hyper 'progressivism' in which gender, sexuality, race, nationhood etc is all seen through the prism of social injustice which must be rectified by redistrubution or wealth and power from those traditionally 'privileged' especially white heterosexual males. In some respects it is closer to socialism than liberalism.

    True liberals are socially liberal but also more tolerant of others opinions and less eager to see everything through class, gender, sexuality and racial lines.

    Your point on the cost of living being the main determinant of recent national elections is also correct
    I' not sure you - as a religious fundamentalist - is in any position to define what 'liberal' should mean... ;)
    If I was a religious fundamentalist I would make weekly church attendance compulsory and non attendance met with a fine as was the case until the early 19th century in the UK and also make homosexuality illegal and abortion illegal and restrict womens' ability to have careers, none of which I support but which is the position in religious fundamentalist states like Iran and Afghanistan
    There are many different forms of religious fundamentalism - which is why fundamentalists often hate each other, or even fight. You have made it fairly clear in previous comments that you are a fundamentalist - particularly in your views towards women. You say 'restrict womens' ability to have careers', but I'm fairly sure you've also written about the need for women to stay at home.

    As for fundamentalism: here's a definition:
    "fundamentalism, type of conservative religious movement characterized by the advocacy of strict conformity to sacred texts."
    I said I want to make it easier for women to be mothers and stay at home or only work part time not that I would ban women from having careers
    Women are not banned from having careers in Iran...
    Their ability to study at university and get a professional career is restricted.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19665615

    In Afghanistan the Taliban ban women from higher education completely and just 4.8% of women in Afghanistan work and then only in the few jobs women are allowed to work with a permit such as food preparation or tailoring

    https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2024-07-07/an-afghan-woman-wanted-to-be-a-doctor-now-she-makes-pickles-as-the-taliban-restricts-womens-roles
    Yes, and as you can see, it is a continuum, not binary.

    And as ever, you miss a fundamental point: why is it the woman who does not have to work? Where, in your theologically-based views, are the men in child-rearing? Why does the woman have to have restrictions on working if she has a child, whilst the men work? Why not the other way around?

    Yet, as above, you always mention that it is women who have to give in their careers and look after the kids.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216

    Scott_xP said:

    That was better than sex.

    I don't think you're doing it right...
    It was up there with season three of Picard.
    You’re definitely not doing it right.
  • 🚨 BREAKING: Keir Starmer has sacked Health Minister Andrew Gwynne after racist and sexist messages were leaked to the Mail, including one where he wished a pensioner who didn’t vote Labour would die before the next election
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,773

    While you are discussing national anthems, in mischievous moods, I sometimes think this would be a good one for the US: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy6AOGRsR80

    Leon will love it. (So will our gracious hosts.)

    You missed a trick there.

    Give in to the inevitable: as it was always meant to be.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6aD-m7Cw84&t=5s
  • biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,679

    🚨 BREAKING: Keir Starmer has sacked Health Minister Andrew Gwynne after racist and sexist messages were leaked to the Mail, including one where he wished a pensioner who didn’t vote Labour would die before the next election

    Just reading the article.

    When will they learn about WhatsApp groups?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,911
    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Labour to bring in votes for children.

    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1887959535123337501?s=61

    Don't like it, but it was a manifesto promise and simply done, so entirely expected.
    I don’t agree with it. But I’ll have to go along with it.
    "...in German how did he say it, Peter?"
    If anyone here was going to get it, it was going to be you 😂😂😂😂
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,724
    viewcode said:

    While you are discussing national anthems, in mischievous moods, I sometimes think this would be a good one for the US: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy6AOGRsR80

    Leon will love it. (So will our gracious hosts.)

    You missed a trick there.

    Give in to the inevitable: as it was always meant to be.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6aD-m7Cw84&t=5s
    The Star Spangled Banner brings a tear to my eye. Those were OUR rockets and we had levelled everything except one bit of cloth. Makes you proud.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,911
    edited February 8

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    At the risk of being Tazdamus I’m moving towards calling an England win.

    How’s about that then !!

    Called it 👍
    Pro tip, be modest and self effacing when reminding PBers you were right.
    I’ll try and follow your example, TSE 😘
  • 🚨 BREAKING: Keir Starmer has sacked Health Minister Andrew Gwynne after racist and sexist messages were leaked to the Mail, including one where he wished a pensioner who didn’t vote Labour would die before the next election

    That is shocking and Starmer had no choice

    I assume he has been thrown out of labour
  • biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    I am going to trigger some of you and give a lot of you aneurysms on Monday with the thread I have planned.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,679
    I can't get too worked up about votes for 16s.

    But if Labour think it definitely will help them in elections they may be surprised.
  • I can't get too worked up about votes for 16s.

    But if Labour think it definitely will help them in elections they may be surprised.

    It was a manifesto commitment but I had my doubts about it but I changed my mind about votes for 16/17 year olds during the indyref.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216
    I’m up for signing on with this.

    Going to start a petition to rename Edward IV as "Edward IV the Undefeated in Battle" to see if that can up his popularity a bit
    https://x.com/LaceyBonarHull/status/1888237779915780199
  • biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    I am going to trigger some of you and give a lot of you aneurysms on Monday with the thread I have planned.
    You cannot give me an aneurysm as mine was diagnosed when I had my dvt scan and I was totally unaware of it

    It is a very serious hidden condition so much so that all men over 65 are offered screening

    In my case I will have annual ultra sounds for life
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,674

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ratters said:

    MaxPB said:

    What's least surprising here is that Lib Dem voters are nothing more than Labour lickspittles. We see it on here all the time where Lib Dems try their hardest to stick up for this shit government despite all of the evidence.

    That's because the last government was so crap for so long that I'm willing to give Labour more than 6 months before writing them off.

    Certainly longer than that before considering the Tories the better of the two again. Again, considering how poorly (and inconsistently) they managed the economy over 12 years in power. Cancelling large projects that they started (HS2), starting with a promise to cut deficits, then leaving record national debt and cutting headline tax rates while running a large deficit outside of a recession being just two examples.

    The PB Reform/Tories can criticise all they want, but they can't erase their own record. I didn't vote Labour but still happy they are in power rather than either the Tories or Reform.
    So you're happy the government is giving away £18bn and territory to a hostile foreign power in league with China? You're also happy with the prospect of the government opening the door to hundreds of billions in liability for reparations?

    I guess it's a view.
    Question - if its an outrageous Labour thing to do that, why did this start *under the Tories*?

    Its like you're trying to embarrass yourselves and bring the party further into the gutter by advancing this argument. People aren't as stupid as you might like them to be - and the ones who are vote Reform already.
    It started under the simpleton Liz Truss, she got booted and then Dave spotted the traitors at the FCO trying to push their anti-Britain agenda as usual and told them to get fucked. Labour being the anti-Britain traitors the plans were picked up with glee.

    It's also telling that few Labour supporters have come out and supported either of these policies, most are just as bothered by them as the rest but won't say so directly. Yet two Lib Dems have played their lickspittle roles just as expected and can't wait to get down on their knees with their mouths open for Labour.
    Dennis Thatcher had the FCO right.

    Filled with Commies, Pinkos and Traitors.
    Yup, it's one to disband, fire everyone and fold into the MoD.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    Nigelb said:

    I’m up for signing on with this.

    Going to start a petition to rename Edward IV as "Edward IV the Undefeated in Battle" to see if that can up his popularity a bit
    https://x.com/LaceyBonarHull/status/1888237779915780199

    Love Edward IV
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,968

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    I am going to trigger some of you and give a lot of you aneurysms on Monday with the thread I have planned.
    The Andrew Gwynne approach 👍🏻
  • Talking about people who are modest and self effacing

    EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW

    Dominic Cummings on Johnson’s fall: Obviously I orchestrated it

    The Trump-Musk project? ‘Basically all great’. Badenoch? ‘Complete useless dud’. Ousting a prime minister? Like ‘cleaning the sewers’. Britain’s disruptor in chief doesn’t take questions often, but when he does…

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/dominic-cummings-boris-johnson-fall-obviously-i-orchestrated-it-qfbzb8qqf
  • Jeremy Clarkson: Brexit makes me want to sit in a gutter and weep

    Since we left the EU it’s been easier to get into Iraq than France. None of this has made our lives better in any way


    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/jeremy-clarkson-brexit-makes-me-want-to-sit-in-a-gutter-and-weep-8tz2fl5vr
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,737
    edited February 8
    This is mainly for @TSE and @rcs1000 , just posted on a Discord forum for a charity I volunteer for, about Twitter having allegedly withdrawn from certain content filtering services. I don't know if you would want to do anything.

    If anyone has more certain knowledge, please could you comment - as I would like to feed back if I can.

    ----------------------------
    Update: No Twitter / X links to be posted on this server please!

    We've received information from people we think are reliable that Discord servers and individual accounts have been shut down due to Twitter/X links that have been posted on them. The issue is apparently that Twitter is no longer moderating automatically using PhotoDNA and other methods to detect child abuse - they've desynched from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) - so if someone posts a link from a Twitter account that is later shown to have also posted something that gets flagged as child abuse, the person who posted the link and potentially the whole server can be shut down.

    We'd like not to get shut down - so, no Twitter/X links please!

    -----------------------------
  • MaxPB said:

    What's least surprising here is that Lib Dem voters are nothing more than Labour lickspittles. We see it on here all the time where Lib Dems try their hardest to stick up for this shit government despite all of the evidence.

    I find it pretty much impossible to tell the Lib Dem’s with their boring positions impossible to tell apart from Tories.

    I just don’t see the point in them.

    Labour are at least trying and failing to do positive things.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216

    Nigelb said:

    I’m up for signing on with this.

    Going to start a petition to rename Edward IV as "Edward IV the Undefeated in Battle" to see if that can up his popularity a bit
    https://x.com/LaceyBonarHull/status/1888237779915780199

    Love Edward IV
    You’re not all bad, Casino.
  • Jeremy Clarkson: Brexit makes me want to sit in a gutter and weep

    Since we left the EU it’s been easier to get into Iraq than France. None of this has made our lives better in any way


    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/jeremy-clarkson-brexit-makes-me-want-to-sit-in-a-gutter-and-weep-8tz2fl5vr

    Is that your thread heading ??????
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,203
    edited February 8
    MattW said:

    This is mainly for @TSE and @rcs1000 , just posted on a Discord forum for a charity I volunteer for, about Twitter having allegedly withdrawn from certain content filtering services.

    If anyone has more certain knowledge, please could you comment - as I would like to feed back if I can.

    ----------------------------
    Update: No Twitter / X links to be posted on this server please!

    We've received information from people we think are reliable that Discord servers and individual accounts have been shut down due to Twitter/X links that have been posted on them. The issue is apparently that Twitter is no longer moderating automatically using PhotoDNA and other methods to detect child abuse - they've desynched from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) - so if someone posts a link from a Twitter account that is later shown to have also posted something that gets flagged as child abuse, the person who posted the link and potentially the whole server can be shut down.

    We'd like not to get shut down - so, no Twitter/X links please!

    -----------------------------

    Thanks.

    It is what somebody tried to do with Mumsnet the other day.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,204
    Years ago, Illinois allowed 18 year old women to buy alcoholic beverages, but required boys to turn 21 before they could do the same. Given how much slower many boys become adults, I could understand why some might think a similar rule might be appropriate for voting.*

    Of course it won't happen here, but I can imagine it might happen somewhere in Europe.

    (*I've been a boy, so I can say this.)

    Fun fact: Tammany Hall was in favor of votes for women, because they assumed it would give them opportunities to buy two votes for the price of one.)
  • Jeremy Clarkson: Brexit makes me want to sit in a gutter and weep

    Since we left the EU it’s been easier to get into Iraq than France. None of this has made our lives better in any way


    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/jeremy-clarkson-brexit-makes-me-want-to-sit-in-a-gutter-and-weep-8tz2fl5vr

    Is that your thread heading ??????
    No.
  • Jeremy Clarkson: Brexit makes me want to sit in a gutter and weep

    Since we left the EU it’s been easier to get into Iraq than France. None of this has made our lives better in any way


    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/jeremy-clarkson-brexit-makes-me-want-to-sit-in-a-gutter-and-weep-8tz2fl5vr

    Is that your thread heading ??????
    No.
    I was joking !!!!!!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081

    Jeremy Clarkson: Brexit makes me want to sit in a gutter and weep

    Since we left the EU it’s been easier to get into Iraq than France. None of this has made our lives better in any way


    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/jeremy-clarkson-brexit-makes-me-want-to-sit-in-a-gutter-and-weep-8tz2fl5vr

    He's not wrong
  • biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    I am going to trigger some of you and give a lot of you aneurysms on Monday with the thread I have planned.
    The Andrew Gwynne approach 👍🏻
    Sky's report

    Just unbelievable

    https://news.sky.com/story/health-minister-sacked-over-comments-posted-on-a-whatsapp-group-13305272
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,292

    MaxPB said:

    What's least surprising here is that Lib Dem voters are nothing more than Labour lickspittles. We see it on here all the time where Lib Dems try their hardest to stick up for this shit government despite all of the evidence.

    I find it pretty much impossible to tell the Lib Dem’s with their boring positions impossible to tell apart from Tories.

    I just don’t see the point in them.

    Labour are at least trying and failing to do positive things.
    I think that says more about you than about the Lib Dems.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,432

    Jeremy Clarkson: Brexit makes me want to sit in a gutter and weep

    Since we left the EU it’s been easier to get into Iraq than France. None of this has made our lives better in any way


    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/jeremy-clarkson-brexit-makes-me-want-to-sit-in-a-gutter-and-weep-8tz2fl5vr

    To be fair, Iraq doesn't appear to be interested in stopping inward migration.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,056

    Talking about people who are modest and self effacing

    EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW

    Dominic Cummings on Johnson’s fall: Obviously I orchestrated it

    The Trump-Musk project? ‘Basically all great’. Badenoch? ‘Complete useless dud’. Ousting a prime minister? Like ‘cleaning the sewers’. Britain’s disruptor in chief doesn’t take questions often, but when he does…

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/dominic-cummings-boris-johnson-fall-obviously-i-orchestrated-it-qfbzb8qqf

    Theory: what did for Dom really was that Downing Street garden press conference. Not so much for the stupid stuff he said, as the fey way he said it. He stopped being menacing then.

    If you want to be the shadowy power behind the throne, you have to stay in the shadows to maintain your scary mystique. Something that Morgan McSweeney doesn't seem to have learned.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,472

    🚨 BREAKING: Keir Starmer has sacked Health Minister Andrew Gwynne after racist and sexist messages were leaked to the Mail, including one where he wished a pensioner who didn’t vote Labour would die before the next election

    Just reading the article.

    When will they learn about WhatsApp groups?
    {considers the evidence}

    The third Tuesday after never.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,292

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    I am going to trigger some of you and give a lot of you aneurysms on Monday with the thread I have planned.
    Yhe "how soon fo we rejoin?" Thread? Within 10 years is my bet
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    edited February 8

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think the single most important thing to understand about politics in most western countries today is the fact that the hyperliberals, or alt-liberals, have decided they're not going to compromise on anything. They'd rather go down to defeat to populists than make the slightest concessions. This is what happened with the Democrats and Trump.

    Like any such analysis, that works both ways.

    I could rewrite it and say that "The Right" hasn't decided to make any concessions to the Centre, and that they are responsible for "hyperliberalism".

    The polarization isn't just one sided, and to pick a side and blame them for causing it is just lazy.

    I would also point out that in 2023/2024, where the Nationalist/Populist Right was in power and faced an elections, they got hit too: see Brazil, India and Poland.

    It's almost like voters *everywhere* had a shitty time as economies emerged from Covid and dealt with the impacts of the Ukraine invasion on energy prices.
    Hyperliberalism is also in reality hyper wokeism and often quite intolerant of dissenting more traditional and socially conservative views. Wokeism is more hyper 'progressivism' in which gender, sexuality, race, nationhood etc is all seen through the prism of social injustice which must be rectified by redistrubution or wealth and power from those traditionally 'privileged' especially white heterosexual males. In some respects it is closer to socialism than liberalism.

    True liberals are socially liberal but also more tolerant of others opinions and less eager to see everything through class, gender, sexuality and racial lines.

    Your point on the cost of living being the main determinant of recent national elections is also correct
    I' not sure you - as a religious fundamentalist - is in any position to define what 'liberal' should mean... ;)
    If I was a religious fundamentalist I would make weekly church attendance compulsory and non attendance met with a fine as was the case until the early 19th century in the UK and also make homosexuality illegal and abortion illegal and restrict womens' ability to have careers, none of which I support but which is the position in religious fundamentalist states like Iran and Afghanistan
    There are many different forms of religious fundamentalism - which is why fundamentalists often hate each other, or even fight. You have made it fairly clear in previous comments that you are a fundamentalist - particularly in your views towards women. You say 'restrict womens' ability to have careers', but I'm fairly sure you've also written about the need for women to stay at home.

    As for fundamentalism: here's a definition:
    "fundamentalism, type of conservative religious movement characterized by the advocacy of strict conformity to sacred texts."
    I said I want to make it easier for women to be mothers and stay at home or only work part time not that I would ban women from having careers
    Women are not banned from having careers in Iran...
    Their ability to study at university and get a professional career is restricted.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19665615

    In Afghanistan the Taliban ban women from higher education completely and just 4.8% of women in Afghanistan work and then only in the few jobs women are allowed to work with a permit such as food preparation or tailoring

    https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2024-07-07/an-afghan-woman-wanted-to-be-a-doctor-now-she-makes-pickles-as-the-taliban-restricts-womens-roles
    Yes, and as you can see, it is a continuum, not binary.

    And as ever, you miss a fundamental point: why is it the woman who does not have to work? Where, in your theologically-based views, are the men in child-rearing? Why does the woman have to have restrictions on working if she has a child, whilst the men work? Why not the other way around?

    Yet, as above, you always mention that it is women who have to give in their careers and look after the kids.
    As babies come out of the mother not the father. Plus for the very religious as the likes of St Paul say women cannot be priests and must be busy at home and subject to their husbands. Muslim scholars make clear only men should have a leadership role and the Koran makes clear the mother is responsible for a young child's upbringing and the man for their food and clothing.

    Though personally if the mother earns more than the father I don't have a problem with the man looking after the children at home and the mother working full time still
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    The French Anthem is magnificent. Ours is a dirge.

    Ours is very easy to belt out in a crowd, even if you are pissed, which is useful. It should just be played a tad faster.
    It is merde
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047

    Jeremy Clarkson: Brexit makes me want to sit in a gutter and weep

    Since we left the EU it’s been easier to get into Iraq than France. None of this has made our lives better in any way


    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/jeremy-clarkson-brexit-makes-me-want-to-sit-in-a-gutter-and-weep-8tz2fl5vr

    That's pretty representative of a certain type of well-off liberal Tory Remoaner, IMHO.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,056

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    I am going to trigger some of you and give a lot of you aneurysms on Monday with the thread I have planned.
    The Andrew Gwynne approach 👍🏻
    Sky's report

    Just unbelievable

    https://news.sky.com/story/health-minister-sacked-over-comments-posted-on-a-whatsapp-group-13305272
    That he's been sacked pretty much instantly?

    Only unbelievable by the standards of 2019-24.
  • Cicero said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    I am going to trigger some of you and give a lot of you aneurysms on Monday with the thread I have planned.
    Yhe "how soon fo we rejoin?" Thread? Within 10 years is my bet
    It's the old 'how long is a piece of string'
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,432

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    No, Rejoin is certainly on the cards, but not this Parliament. It will be an issue at future elections, though probably in steps, such as going the Customs Union and/or the Single Market.

    Just because some people don't want to consider it doesnt mean it's a dead issue.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    Foxy said:

    No, Rejoin is certainly on the cards, but not this Parliament. It will be an issue at future elections, though probably in steps, such as going the Customs Union and/or the Single Market.

    Just because some people don't want to consider it doesnt mean it's a dead issue.

    Trump is likely to be big help
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278

    Jeremy Clarkson: Brexit makes me want to sit in a gutter and weep

    Since we left the EU it’s been easier to get into Iraq than France. None of this has made our lives better in any way


    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/jeremy-clarkson-brexit-makes-me-want-to-sit-in-a-gutter-and-weep-8tz2fl5vr

    That's pretty representative of a certain type of well-off liberal Tory Remoaner, IMHO.
    Well he does live in Cameron's old constituency which now has a LD MP
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,724
    Scott_xP said:

    Jeremy Clarkson: Brexit makes me want to sit in a gutter and weep

    Since we left the EU it’s been easier to get into Iraq than France. None of this has made our lives better in any way


    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/jeremy-clarkson-brexit-makes-me-want-to-sit-in-a-gutter-and-weep-8tz2fl5vr

    He's not wrong
    But it’s still whinging about what we used to have. What we used to have is no longer available: we’ve taken it from you and you can never have it back. You all still whinge and moan and wave your silly EU flags because you know that really.

    The Clarkson article is hilarious in fact, because of the implication that ease of travel for film companies should have been in any way considered as material in a debate about EU membership. It was his main point in the video he made at the time for the Remain campaign though, so he has been consistent.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,005
    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    No, Rejoin is certainly on the cards, but not this Parliament. It will be an issue at future elections, though probably in steps, such as going the Customs Union and/or the Single Market.

    Just because some people don't want to consider it doesnt mean it's a dead issue.
    Brexit has been making us poorer.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,333

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    I am going to trigger some of you and give a lot of you aneurysms on Monday with the thread I have planned.
    The Andrew Gwynne approach 👍🏻
    Sky's report

    Just unbelievable

    https://news.sky.com/story/health-minister-sacked-over-comments-posted-on-a-whatsapp-group-13305272
    That he's been sacked pretty much instantly?

    Only unbelievable by the standards of 2019-24.
    I'm amazed that people haven't learned about putting things in writing. It always comes back to bite you. I only ever used WhatsApp in emergencies in school, and my comments usually consisted of yes, no, and I never swore or called anyone anything. Same with my school emails. I used to read and reread them.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    No, Rejoin is certainly on the cards, but not this Parliament. It will be an issue at future elections, though probably in steps, such as going the Customs Union and/or the Single Market.

    Just because some people don't want to consider it doesnt mean it's a dead issue.
    Desperate stuff.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,313
    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    No, Rejoin is certainly on the cards, but not this Parliament. It will be an issue at future elections, though probably in steps, such as going the Customs Union and/or the Single Market.

    Just because some people don't want to consider it doesnt mean it's a dead issue.

    Trump is likely to be big help
    Far too much politics going on in the EU nations to make it a viable option. I think that the EU will be unstable for decades to come.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    biggles said:

    But it’s still whinging about what we used to have. What we used to have is no longer available

    That's the point.

    You took the brilliant thing we had and replaced it with shit.

    And you haven't worked out why people aren't thanking you for it...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    edited February 8
    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    No, Rejoin is certainly on the cards, but not this Parliament. It will be an issue at future elections, though probably in steps, such as going the Customs Union and/or the Single Market.

    Just because some people don't want to consider it doesnt mean it's a dead issue.
    Possibly, certainly on most polls the LDs will be Kingmakers in a hung parliament after the next GE and they now want us to rejoin the Customs Union. Though rejoining the Single Market would make more sense as by 2028/29 we will have had no free movement from the EEA for 7 years which we would have had in part had Blair accepted transition controls on Eastern European migration for 7 years as he was allowed from 2004 to 2011. It would also still enable us to do our own trade deals unlike a Customs Union
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,505

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    I am going to trigger some of you and give a lot of you aneurysms on Monday with the thread I have planned.
    The Andrew Gwynne approach 👍🏻
    Sky's report

    Just unbelievable

    https://news.sky.com/story/health-minister-sacked-over-comments-posted-on-a-whatsapp-group-13305272
    That he's been sacked pretty much instantly?

    Only unbelievable by the standards of 2019-24.
    Gwynne is somewhere on the left, as one of Corbyn's main GE campaigns people, so we might expect the odd grumble, but (a) he's bang to rights and (b) dissing Diane Abbott doesn't exactly help his case with the left.

    I wonder who the other (said to be neighbouring) MP who was in the WhatsApp group is?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216
    biggles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Jeremy Clarkson: Brexit makes me want to sit in a gutter and weep

    Since we left the EU it’s been easier to get into Iraq than France. None of this has made our lives better in any way


    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/jeremy-clarkson-brexit-makes-me-want-to-sit-in-a-gutter-and-weep-8tz2fl5vr

    He's not wrong
    But it’s still whinging about what we used to have. What we used to have is no longer available: we’ve taken it from you and you can never have it back...
    You spent four decades whinging and moaning before you managed that.
    Rejoining, should it ever happen, won’t take nearly as long.

    In the meantime, just get used to it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,472
    a
    Pro_Rata said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    I am going to trigger some of you and give a lot of you aneurysms on Monday with the thread I have planned.
    The Andrew Gwynne approach 👍🏻
    Sky's report

    Just unbelievable

    https://news.sky.com/story/health-minister-sacked-over-comments-posted-on-a-whatsapp-group-13305272
    That he's been sacked pretty much instantly?

    Only unbelievable by the standards of 2019-24.
    Gwynne is somewhere on the left, as one of Corbyn's main GE campaigns people, so we might expect the odd grumble, but (a) he's bang to rights and (b) dissing Diane Abbott doesn't exactly help his case with the left.

    I wonder who the other (said to be neighbouring) MP who was in the WhatsApp group is?
    Anti-Semitic comments plus racism against Abbott - sounds like a perfect plan to set your career in the Labour Party on fire.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    I am going to trigger some of you and give a lot of you aneurysms on Monday with the thread I have planned.
    The Andrew Gwynne approach 👍🏻
    Sky's report

    Just unbelievable

    https://news.sky.com/story/health-minister-sacked-over-comments-posted-on-a-whatsapp-group-13305272
    That he's been sacked pretty much instantly?

    Only unbelievable by the standards of 2019-24.
    I'm amazed that people haven't learned about putting things in writing. It always comes back to bite you. I only ever used WhatsApp in emergencies in school, and my comments usually consisted of yes, no, and I never swore or called anyone anything. Same with my school emails. I used to read and reread them.
    Email is an excellent tool for documenting conversations.
    So long as you’re aware of that’s what it is, it’s great.

    Social media serves an analogous function, but it’s more like a multiyear diary … which anyone can read.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216

    Foxy said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    No, Rejoin is certainly on the cards, but not this Parliament. It will be an issue at future elections, though probably in steps, such as going the Customs Union and/or the Single Market.

    Just because some people don't want to consider it doesnt mean it's a dead issue.
    Desperate stuff.
    From Brexiteers who want the argument dead and buried ?
    Sure.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,679
    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump

    The Pentagon just announced that it would double the number of news organizations removed from physical offices to make room for MAGA propaganda media outlets.

    OUT: The New York Times, Politico, NPR, The Washington Post, CNN, NBC, The Hill, The War Zone

    IN: Breitbart, The New York Post, The Washington Examiner, OAN, Newsmax, HuffPost, The Free Press, The Daily Caller

    They’re establishing state-run media, just as totalitarian regimes do.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081

    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump

    The Pentagon just announced that it would double the number of news organizations removed from physical offices to make room for MAGA propaganda media outlets.

    OUT: The New York Times, Politico, NPR, The Washington Post, CNN, NBC, The Hill, The War Zone

    IN: Breitbart, The New York Post, The Washington Examiner, OAN, Newsmax, HuffPost, The Free Press, The Daily Caller

    They’re establishing state-run media, just as totalitarian regimes do.

    They are not hiding the Nazi
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,283
    Pro_Rata said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    I am going to trigger some of you and give a lot of you aneurysms on Monday with the thread I have planned.
    The Andrew Gwynne approach 👍🏻
    Sky's report

    Just unbelievable

    https://news.sky.com/story/health-minister-sacked-over-comments-posted-on-a-whatsapp-group-13305272
    That he's been sacked pretty much instantly?

    Only unbelievable by the standards of 2019-24.
    Gwynne is somewhere on the left, as one of Corbyn's main GE campaigns people, so we might expect the odd grumble, but (a) he's bang to rights and (b) dissing Diane Abbott doesn't exactly help his case with the left.

    I wonder who the other (said to be neighbouring) MP who was in the WhatsApp group is?
    I've only read the sky link above, but if that is accurate the thing that strikes me most forcibly is that the three cases they mention are his constituent and his colleagues. Leaves me wondering how on earth he views those at greater removes.

    Good evening, everyone.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,322

    That was better than sex.

    You’re doing it wrong.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,249
    Omnium said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    No, Rejoin is certainly on the cards, but not this Parliament. It will be an issue at future elections, though probably in steps, such as going the Customs Union and/or the Single Market.

    Just because some people don't want to consider it doesnt mean it's a dead issue.

    Trump is likely to be big help
    Far too much politics going on in the EU nations to make it a viable option. I think that the EU will be unstable for decades to come.
    More pertinently, with the Conservatives and Reform nudging close to 50%, it would be hard to win a vote to rejoin.

    It’s plain that centre- right/eurosceptic voters are not just dying off, without replacement.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216

    That was better than sex.

    You’re doing it wrong.
    Everyone has their own kink.
    Don’t judge.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,912
    edited February 8
    Went to see The Brutalist a couple of days ago and it seemed more like a 2 and half hour film than a 3 and a half one, which probably means it's quite good.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,153
    edited February 8

    Talking about people who are modest and self effacing

    EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW

    Dominic Cummings on Johnson’s fall: Obviously I orchestrated it

    The Trump-Musk project? ‘Basically all great’. Badenoch? ‘Complete useless dud’. Ousting a prime minister? Like ‘cleaning the sewers’. Britain’s disruptor in chief doesn’t take questions often, but when he does…

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/dominic-cummings-boris-johnson-fall-obviously-i-orchestrated-it-qfbzb8qqf

    Theory: what did for Dom really was that Downing Street garden press conference. Not so much for the stupid stuff he said, as the fey way he said it. He stopped being menacing then.

    If you want to be the shadowy power behind the throne, you have to stay in the shadows to maintain your scary mystique. Something that Morgan McSweeney doesn't seem to have learned.
    See also Alastair Campbell having to quit when he became part of the story with the dodgy dossier.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    Nigelb said:

    Everyone has their own kink.
    Don’t judge.

    It was up there with season three of Picard.

    Oh, I am definitely judging...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    edited February 8
    Sean_F said:

    Omnium said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    No, Rejoin is certainly on the cards, but not this Parliament. It will be an issue at future elections, though probably in steps, such as going the Customs Union and/or the Single Market.

    Just because some people don't want to consider it doesnt mean it's a dead issue.

    Trump is likely to be big help
    Far too much politics going on in the EU nations to make it a viable option. I think that the EU will be unstable for decades to come.
    More pertinently, with the Conservatives and Reform nudging close to 50%, it would be hard to win a vote to rejoin.

    It’s plain that centre- right/eurosceptic voters are not just dying off, without replacement.
    On current polls the next general election is likely to lead to a hung parliament and be a choice between Labour, the LDs and SNP as one block likely looking to rejoin a Customs Union with the EU and the Conservatives and Reform as the other block looking to keep the current EU trade deal but not align any closer to the EU (and in the case of Reform and the DUP and TUV looking to remove EU regulations over Northern Ireland as well).

    Neither block will look to rejoin the full EU though
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,153
    Cicero said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    I am going to trigger some of you and give a lot of you aneurysms on Monday with the thread I have planned.
    Yhe "how soon fo we rejoin?" Thread? Within 10 years is my bet
    It's amazing to think that the referendum was nearly nine years ago. Feels like yesterday.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,912

    🚨 BREAKING: Keir Starmer has sacked Health Minister Andrew Gwynne after racist and sexist messages were leaked to the Mail, including one where he wished a pensioner who didn’t vote Labour would die before the next election

    "Badly misjudged comments" is the understatement of the year so far.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,156
    https://x.com/michaellcrick/status/1888303120985330018

    Which other Labour MPs are, or were, on the WhatsApp group where Andrew Gwynne made his horrific remarks? We should be told.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,968

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    I am going to trigger some of you and give a lot of you aneurysms on Monday with the thread I have planned.
    The Andrew Gwynne approach 👍🏻
    Sky's report

    Just unbelievable

    https://news.sky.com/story/health-minister-sacked-over-comments-posted-on-a-whatsapp-group-13305272
    We don’t want you to die Big G.

    We need your re-join vote in spring of 2030 when the next EU Referendum will take place.

    Live long and prosper ❤️
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,679
    Scott_xP said:

    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump

    The Pentagon just announced that it would double the number of news organizations removed from physical offices to make room for MAGA propaganda media outlets.

    OUT: The New York Times, Politico, NPR, The Washington Post, CNN, NBC, The Hill, The War Zone

    IN: Breitbart, The New York Post, The Washington Examiner, OAN, Newsmax, HuffPost, The Free Press, The Daily Caller

    They’re establishing state-run media, just as totalitarian regimes do.

    They are not hiding the Nazi
    Next week Völkischer Beobachter get an office.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,773

    Jeremy Clarkson: Brexit makes me want to sit in a gutter and weep

    Since we left the EU it’s been easier to get into Iraq than France. None of this has made our lives better in any way


    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/jeremy-clarkson-brexit-makes-me-want-to-sit-in-a-gutter-and-weep-8tz2fl5vr

    non-paywall: https://archive.is/X6qM0
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216
    Andy_JS said:

    Went to see The Brutalist a couple of days ago and it seemed more like a 2 and half hour film than a 3 and a half one, which probably means it's quite good.

    Reportedly, architects hate it.
    Which is probably a further recommendation.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    edited February 8
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    Or King Charles II trying to overturn Cromwell’s republic?
    It was with an acceptance of constitutional not absolute monarchy and that Parliament was now supreme not the Crown.

    We may rejoin the single market in time but unlikely the full EU
    That was later, after James VII and II tried it on again and got the chop, albeit allowed by mistake accidentally for some strange reason to escape rather than having the hassle of literally chopping him.

    Charles II just kicked the can down the road while having lots of luxury* (and helping create the Royal Society of London, and adopting Cromwell's bequest of a modern Navy).

    *And bankrupting the Exchequer, IIRC, with all his mistresses, illegitimate sprogs and horses.

    I do like Simon THurley's book on the Stuart palaces - including CIIR's little place at Newmarket. Never knew that before. Fascinating.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216
    Andy_JS said:

    🚨 BREAKING: Keir Starmer has sacked Health Minister Andrew Gwynne after racist and sexist messages were leaked to the Mail, including one where he wished a pensioner who didn’t vote Labour would die before the next election

    "Badly misjudged comments" is the understatement of the year so far.
    Misjudged ?
    If judgment, good or bad, came into it, that’s even more damning.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,773

    Talking about people who are modest and self effacing

    EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW

    Dominic Cummings on Johnson’s fall: Obviously I orchestrated it

    The Trump-Musk project? ‘Basically all great’. Badenoch? ‘Complete useless dud’. Ousting a prime minister? Like ‘cleaning the sewers’. Britain’s disruptor in chief doesn’t take questions often, but when he does…

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/dominic-cummings-boris-johnson-fall-obviously-i-orchestrated-it-qfbzb8qqf

    Non-paywall: https://archive.ph/DlzlO
  • biggles said:

    biggles said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    45/37 in favour of rejoin in the latest poll

    It is widely accepted across politics including by the Lib Dems rejoining is years away if at all
    Because it isn’t “rejoining”. It’s joining. And those who know what that means know a ten point starting lead isn’t enough to win a referendum on it.
    It'd be lost by over 60:40. This is like Queen Mary trying to overturn the Reformation.

    Next.
    60/40 against? Really? A pretty ridiculous prediction..😏
    Err, no. And, yes, I think it'd be clearly won by Stay Out and Rejoin would clock a low 40%.

    You people simply have no idea how you come across.
    Another 52/48 maybe and more decades of argument
    Sorry but there hasn't been a majority for brexit in years. Brexiteers are old and dying off furthermore brexit is a freaking omni-failure.... sorry but that is a fact.
    You think there’s a majority for the Euro, Schengen, restrictions on things like iPhones, freedom of movement, and whatever else they introduce in the next year or two?
    The constant argument over brexit is tedious, not least because we have left the EU and returning to it is not remotely on the cards

    The EU itself is not the EU we left, with considerable disagreements and political views within and goodness knows what shape it will be in by the time Trump has concluded his period in office

    What is fair to discuss is how we improve relationships with the EU, which by the way Sunak started and Starmer continues and better trading terms including single market membership could be sensible, but rejoining is just not likely for many years to come
    I am going to trigger some of you and give a lot of you aneurysms on Monday with the thread I have planned.
    The Andrew Gwynne approach 👍🏻
    Sky's report

    Just unbelievable

    https://news.sky.com/story/health-minister-sacked-over-comments-posted-on-a-whatsapp-group-13305272
    We don’t want you to die Big G.

    We need your re-join vote in spring of 2030 when the next EU Referendum will take place.

    Live long and prosper ❤️
    So kind and I am working on it as is my wonderful wife who is watching my every move as I am not permitted to lift much

    I really do not know how I would vote in another referendum as there are so many unknowns

    I am not committed either way
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,912

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    Probably because support for Reform isn't necessarily to do with Brexit these days. It's more to do with politicians continually making promises, such as on lowering migration figures, that they don't keep.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216
    Andy_JS said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    Probably because support for Reform isn't necessarily to do with Brexit these days. It's more to do with politicians continually making promises, such as on lowering migration figures, that they don't keep.
    Like all those Brexit promises Farage made ?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,976
    Andy_JS said:

    🚨 BREAKING: Keir Starmer has sacked Health Minister Andrew Gwynne after racist and sexist messages were leaked to the Mail, including one where he wished a pensioner who didn’t vote Labour would die before the next election

    "Badly misjudged comments" is the understatement of the year so far.
    They think they are untouchable. He isn't the first and won't be the last. I wonder if he will face deselection?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,432
    Andy_JS said:

    I am confounded how reform can do so well while brexit support is in such radical decline (rejoin and dropping red lines have huge support). I guess even farage has been critical of brexit lately 🤷‍♂️

    Probably because support for Reform isn't necessarily to do with Brexit these days. It's more to do with politicians continually making promises, such as on lowering migration figures, that they don't keep.
    I expect that migration figures will drop dramatically over the next year or two, the number of visas being granted is way, way down. I dont expect either Reform or Tory voters to soften towards Labour as a result. It will just radicalise them further to demands for expulsion of resident migrants.
This discussion has been closed.