politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The PB December Polling average: the Left rampant
Comments
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It's a very good article. Rather more socially conservative than my tastes, but thoughtful and reflecting very well on Mr Cameron.Indigo said:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/may/13/comment.communitiesMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Indigo, ......
What an arse.
It seems to be around the same time he was hugging hoodies and huskies.0 -
Circle are in talks to exit their contract to manage Hinchingbrooke hospital. They can't make a profit.0
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Mr. Indigo, still a bloody stupid comment for Cameron to make.
Mr. J2, that's an interesting argument for SNP inclusion. Hmm.
I don't think it's acceptable to have a party only standing in less than 10% of seats to be included. But then, I don't think it's acceptable for a party that could be involved in the next government to be excluded.
I suppose the only rational response is my first preference - axe the debates
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UK Awakening @UK_Awakening 7m7 minutes ago
This is how freedom is killed off. Little by little, piece by piece: LITTLEJOHN on how the State ... http://dailym.ai/1tRHJr9 via @MailOnline0 -
Some way must be found to ensure that the SNP get heard in the debates cycle. To exclude them entirely would be preposterous.0
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Not a big surprise, this was when Dave was trying to attract Guardian readers to the Conservative Partyantifrank said:
It's a very good article. Rather more socially conservative than my tastes, but thoughtful and reflecting very well on Mr Cameron.Indigo said:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/may/13/comment.communitiesMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Indigo, ......
What an arse.
It seems to be around the same time he was hugging hoodies and huskies.
I am quite sure that the vast majority of the voting public would say something along the lines of the old saw about "When in Rome" and wouldn't see why they should adjust their lifestyle to suit people arriving in the country.
Having lived the last five years in someone elses country I have been at pains to not criticize their attitudes or establishment, and I certainly wouldn't dream of suggesting they change their culture to suit me. When I live in another country I have the expectation of following their rules and doing things their way, people settling in the UK should grant us the same courtesy.
Anyone considering posting about British expats in Spain, please dont bother, we have heard it all before, if the Spanish chose to tolerate people behaving like yobs because they want the money, that's entirely their business.0 -
Unless there's a broadcaster brave enough to put the debate back on the table by asking the Greens to participate and ignore OFCOM. Sky? Dave will be running out of excuses.NickPalmer said:
I think that's right too - the underlying position is a near-tie. But...Millsy said:Labour's good performance in December will only exaggerate a reversal in January. Already we have YouGovs back to level pegging. The first phone polls will be interesting
...I think Cameron has thrown away one of the last opportunities to produce a different result from a near-tie. Debates would be a risk, but they would have been a possible game-changer either way, since people actually watch them with some interest. As it is, I think we're heading for 4 months of trench warfare with not a great deal changing.audreyanne said:
Yes there was a time when it was thought it only benefited the opposition and that it was a sign of desperation if a PM acquiesced. In fact I seem to recall many moons back that Mike Smithson led a thread on that topic.AndyJS said:Usually TV debates don't happen because the PM is 100% against and the leader of the opposition 100% in favour. For example Kinnock wanted them in 1992 while Major didn't, and Blair wanted them in 1997. But then Blair didn't want them in 2001 and 2005 while Hague and Howard did.
2010 was probably an exception because things were so bad for Brown that he thought he hadn't got anything to lose.0 -
Entirely agree. When I ever hear "British Pakistanis" or "British Chinese" it sounds like they're Pakistanis and Chinese people who just happen to have British passports. It's a description that wholly gives the wrong impression of what should be expected for integration.Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Patrick, we should (collectively, not blaming you) change to saying Asian British, not British Asians. British Asians makes the Asian aspect the name and the British bit an adjective. The core of identity should be Britain (as in African American).0 -
MikeK said:
UK Awakening @UK_Awakening 7m7 minutes ago
This is how freedom is killed off. Little by little, piece by piece: LITTLEJOHN on how the State ... http://dailym.ai/1tRHJr9 via @MailOnlineAccording to the most recent figures, there are at least 125,000 people in Britain logging on to jihadist websites such as the Al Qaeda magazine ‘Inspire’, which regularly calls for the murder of filthy infidels and recently put Charlie Hebdo on their hit-list.
Not good if true.
What are the odds on this latest outrage being used to push through the Snoopers Charter and associated idiocies ?0 -
If you read the article, the thrust of it is: "these are mostly hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising". And he's right.Indigo said:
Not a big surprise, this was when Dave was trying to attract Guardian readers to the Conservative Partyantifrank said:
It's a very good article. Rather more socially conservative than my tastes, but thoughtful and reflecting very well on Mr Cameron.Indigo said:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/may/13/comment.communitiesMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Indigo, ......
What an arse.
It seems to be around the same time he was hugging hoodies and huskies. I am quite sure that the vast majority of the voting public would say something along the lines of the old saw about "When in Rome" and wouldn't see why they should adjust their lifestyle to suit people arriving in the country.
Having lived the last five years in someone elses country I have been at pains to not criticize their attitudes or establishment, and I certainly wouldn't dream of suggesting they change their culture to suit me. When I live in another country I have the expectation of following their rules and doing things their way, people settling in the UK should grant us the same courtesy.
Anyone considering posting about British expats in Spain, please dont bother, we have heard it all before, if the Spanish chose to tolerate people behaving like yobs because they want the money, that's entirely their business.0 -
Matters not which donkeys they parade in England, the unionists are filling their pants re having the SNP make even bigger fools of them than they are. They are running scared, pathetic cretins with snouts deep in the trough.Financier said:DH: Thank you for the figures. May I suggest a Median instead of Average next time as they tend to diminish the effects of outliers.
RE: Debates: I think we should give any significant up and coming parties at least one chance at a debate, as long as they are polling >5% for at least the last 2-3 months. Thus the 5, 3, 2 scenario for the 3 debates would allow for that. As both PC and SNP do not have GB candidates then they have to be excluded, as do NI parties..0 -
You never heard of democracy thenRodCrosby said:
Since 92% of the voters can neither vote for or against the SNP, what is the point, pray tell?foxinsoxuk said:
As SNP are as likely as the LDs, and more likely than UKIP to hold the balance of power, they should be at the debates, so we rUK voters can see which rUK policies they will support.JPJ2 said:Let's just suppose (as is entirely possible, perhaps even likely) that the SNP do win a majority of Scotland's seats (30) in the GE2015 and that they are then critical to the formation of a UK Government, whether in formal coalition or otherwise.
What excuses will Ofcom and the massed ranks of self serving unionists find to exclude the SNP from the next series of debates in a second GE2015 or in say, GE2020?
Come on, I am sure many of you can come up with some "democratic" reason :-)0 -
Privatisation of health has failed.
Another nail in the coffin of rightwing ideology:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/502cf8fa-97d0-11e4-84d4-00144feabdc0.html?siteedition=ukThe “unsustainable cost” of “unprecedented A&E attendances” has been blamed for the collapse of a franchise to operate the UK’s first privately run NHS hospital in a sign of the deepening crisis in accident and emergency care.
Failure after failure after failure from the Tories. This deal should never have happened.
Hinchingbrooke Hospital in Cambridgeshire had been lauded as an example of how private providers could work within the NHS. Its operator, the FTSE listed company Circle, confirmed on Friday morning that it had entered into discussions with the NHS Trust to enable an “orderly withdrawal” from the contract. In early London trading, shares in the group had plunged by nearly 30 per cent.
Roll on May.0 -
Their views and agenda have been vented ad nauseam, most recently over a two-year referendum campaign. To include them would indeed be preposterous, pointless, and anti-democratic [you might as well invite Obama, Merkel or Putin] for the obvious reason I have already stated.antifrank said:Some way must be found to ensure that the SNP get heard in the debates cycle. To exclude them entirely would be preposterous.
Only a tiny minority could exercise the franchise for or against them in a UK election. From a UK perspective they are by definition a fringe party....0 -
Failure after failure after failure from the Tories. This deal should never have happened.BenM said:Privatisation of health has failed.
Another nail in the coffin of rightwing ideology:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/502cf8fa-97d0-11e4-84d4-00144feabdc0.html?siteedition=ukThe “unsustainable cost” of “unprecedented A&E attendances” has been blamed for the collapse of a franchise to operate the UK’s first privately run NHS hospital in a sign of the deepening crisis in accident and emergency care.
Hinchingbrooke Hospital in Cambridgeshire had been lauded as an example of how private providers could work within the NHS. Its operator, the FTSE listed company Circle, confirmed on Friday morning that it had entered into discussions with the NHS Trust to enable an “orderly withdrawal” from the contract. In early London trading, shares in the group had plunged by nearly 30 per cent.
Roll on May.
Privatised to all practical intents by Labour, the only party to privatise a hospital in the UK, but dont let the facts get in the way of a good story.0 -
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That right wing ideologue Andy Burnham...BenM said:Privatisation of health has failed.
Another nail in the coffin of rightwing ideology:
@GuidoFawkes: "It was clear by the end of 2009 that Hinchingbrooke would be run by a private company." When Burnham was Health Sec. http://t.co/SzwYkFxt3g
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LOL, stick to supporting Irish terroristsRodCrosby said:
Their views and agenda have been vented ad nauseam, most recently over a two-year referendum campaign. To include them would indeed be preposterous, pointless, and anti-democratic [you might as well invite Obama, Merkel or Putin] for the obvious reason I have already stated.antifrank said:Some way must be found to ensure that the SNP get heard in the debates cycle. To exclude them entirely would be preposterous.
Only a tiny minority could exercise the franchise for or against them in a UK election. From a UK perspective they are by definition a fringe party....0 -
Unconfirmed report : "Two dead, 20 injured during French manhunt..."0
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Isn't there regional variation, allowing broadcast of a debate between Sturgeon, Murphy, Davidson and so on which would mainly be seen in Scotland? I'd think it would attract considerable interest in cotland, and not much elsewhere, and as in England it's not so obvious that one party would benefit that it'd be hard to refuse.RodCrosby said:
Since 92% of the voters can neither vote for or against the SNP, what is the point, pray tell?foxinsoxuk said:
As SNP are as likely as the LDs, and more likely than UKIP to hold the balance of power, they should be at the debates, so we rUK voters can see which rUK policies they will support.JPJ2 said:Let's just suppose (as is entirely possible, perhaps even likely) that the SNP do win a majority of Scotland's seats (30) in the GE2015 and that they are then critical to the formation of a UK Government, whether in formal coalition or otherwise.
What excuses will Ofcom and the massed ranks of self serving unionists find to exclude the SNP from the next series of debates in a second GE2015 or in say, GE2020?
Come on, I am sure many of you can come up with some "democratic" reason :-)0 -
Privatised to all practical intents by Labour, the only party to privatise a hospital in the UK, but dont let the facts get in the way of a good story.Indigo said:
Failure after failure after failure from the Tories. This deal should never have happened.BenM said:Privatisation of health has failed.
Another nail in the coffin of rightwing ideology:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/502cf8fa-97d0-11e4-84d4-00144feabdc0.html?siteedition=ukThe “unsustainable cost” of “unprecedented A&E attendances” has been blamed for the collapse of a franchise to operate the UK’s first privately run NHS hospital in a sign of the deepening crisis in accident and emergency care.
Hinchingbrooke Hospital in Cambridgeshire had been lauded as an example of how private providers could work within the NHS. Its operator, the FTSE listed company Circle, confirmed on Friday morning that it had entered into discussions with the NHS Trust to enable an “orderly withdrawal” from the contract. In early London trading, shares in the group had plunged by nearly 30 per cent.
Roll on May.
Circle announced as preferred bidder in Nov 2010. Can you remember who was in power then?
This puts a landmine under the Tory campaign.0 -
MalcolmG Just have UK debates with the Greens and UKIP, and a Scottish debate with Sturgeon or Salmond, Davidson, Murphy and Rennie and do the same in Wales and NI, simples!0
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Circle announced as preferred bidder in Nov 2010. Can you remember who was in power then?BenM said:
Privatised to all practical intents by Labour, the only party to privatise a hospital in the UK, but dont let the facts get in the way of a good story.Indigo said:
Failure after failure after failure from the Tories. This deal should never have happened.BenM said:Privatisation of health has failed.
Another nail in the coffin of rightwing ideology:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/502cf8fa-97d0-11e4-84d4-00144feabdc0.html?siteedition=ukThe “unsustainable cost” of “unprecedented A&E attendances” has been blamed for the collapse of a franchise to operate the UK’s first privately run NHS hospital in a sign of the deepening crisis in accident and emergency care.
Hinchingbrooke Hospital in Cambridgeshire had been lauded as an example of how private providers could work within the NHS. Its operator, the FTSE listed company Circle, confirmed on Friday morning that it had entered into discussions with the NHS Trust to enable an “orderly withdrawal” from the contract. In early London trading, shares in the group had plunged by nearly 30 per cent.
Roll on May.
This puts a landmine under the Tory campaign.
As a result of a process started in about 2009, do you remember who was in power then?0 -
The rolling news coverage currently coming out of France is astonishing.0
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Some are, some aren't. 16% of British Muslims believe suicide bombing could be justified against British military targets in the UK. 36% believe that modern British Values are a threat to the Muslim way of life.antifrank said:
If you read the article, the thrust of it is: "these are mostly hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising". And he's right.Indigo said:
Not a big surprise, this was when Dave was trying to attract Guardian readers to the Conservative Partyantifrank said:
It's a very good article. Rather more socially conservative than my tastes, but thoughtful and reflecting very well on Mr Cameron.Indigo said:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/may/13/comment.communitiesMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Indigo, ......
What an arse.
It seems to be around the same time he was hugging hoodies and huskies. I am quite sure that the vast majority of the voting public would say something along the lines of the old saw about "When in Rome" and wouldn't see why they should adjust their lifestyle to suit people arriving in the country.
Having lived the last five years in someone elses country I have been at pains to not criticize their attitudes or establishment, and I certainly wouldn't dream of suggesting they change their culture to suit me. When I live in another country I have the expectation of following their rules and doing things their way, people settling in the UK should grant us the same courtesy.
Anyone considering posting about British expats in Spain, please dont bother, we have heard it all before, if the Spanish chose to tolerate people behaving like yobs because they want the money, that's entirely their business.
http://www.populuslimited.com/Poll/Muslim-77-Poll-/0 -
In another survey, 78% thought the Jyllands-Posten cartoonists should be prosecuted.Indigo said:
Some are, some aren't. 16% of British Muslims believe suicide bombing could be justified against British military targets in the UK. 36% believe that modern British Values are a threat to the Muslim way of life.antifrank said:
If you read the article, the thrust of it is: "these are mostly hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising". And he's right.Indigo said:
Not a big surprise, this was when Dave was trying to attract Guardian readers to the Conservative Partyantifrank said:
It's a very good article. Rather more socially conservative than my tastes, but thoughtful and reflecting very well on Mr Cameron.Indigo said:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/may/13/comment.communitiesMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Indigo, ......
What an arse.
It seems to be around the same time he was hugging hoodies and huskies. I am quite sure that the vast majority of the voting public would say something along the lines of the old saw about "When in Rome" and wouldn't see why they should adjust their lifestyle to suit people arriving in the country.
Having lived the last five years in someone elses country I have been at pains to not criticize their attitudes or establishment, and I certainly wouldn't dream of suggesting they change their culture to suit me. When I live in another country I have the expectation of following their rules and doing things their way, people settling in the UK should grant us the same courtesy.
Anyone considering posting about British expats in Spain, please dont bother, we have heard it all before, if the Spanish chose to tolerate people behaving like yobs because they want the money, that's entirely their business.
http://www.populuslimited.com/Poll/Muslim-77-Poll-/
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291
45% believe 9/11 was a conspiracy planned by the US government.
1/4 believe the 7/7 attacks were justified because the UK was involved in the War on Terror
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/many-british-muslims-put-islam-first/
18% of British Muslim students wouldn't report another student planning a terrorist attack
http://www.fosis.org.uk/sac/FullReport.pdf
37% believe that British Jews are a legitimate target
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2006/02/37_of_british_m.php0 -
Circle announced as preferred bidder in Nov 2010. Can you remember who was in power then?BenM said:
Privatised to all practical intents by Labour, the only party to privatise a hospital in the UK, but dont let the facts get in the way of a good story.Indigo said:
Failure after failure after failure from the Tories. This deal should never have happened.BenM said:Privatisation of health has failed.
Another nail in the coffin of rightwing ideology:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/502cf8fa-97d0-11e4-84d4-00144feabdc0.html?siteedition=ukThe “unsustainable cost” of “unprecedented A&E attendances” has been blamed for the collapse of a franchise to operate the UK’s first privately run NHS hospital in a sign of the deepening crisis in accident and emergency care.
Hinchingbrooke Hospital in Cambridgeshire had been lauded as an example of how private providers could work within the NHS. Its operator, the FTSE listed company Circle, confirmed on Friday morning that it had entered into discussions with the NHS Trust to enable an “orderly withdrawal” from the contract. In early London trading, shares in the group had plunged by nearly 30 per cent.
Roll on May.
This puts a landmine under the Tory campaign.
You're having a giraffe
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/who-privatised-hinchingbrooke-hospital-and-does-it-matter/
July 2007 – Department of Health gives the Strategic Health Authority approval to examine different options, including franchises.
July 2009 – Department of Health approves the business case for an open competitive tender for a franchise.
October 2009 – Open competitive tender announced and 11 organisations submit bids, six are selected to move to the next stage. Of those six, only one was NHS-only: Addenbrooke’s in Cambridge. Circle say there was no mention of a preferred provider at any point in the tender.
February 2010 - Addenbrooke’s pull out of the bidding process.
March 2010 – Shortlist for the franchise announced: Serco, Ramsay and Circle. Serco’s bid did include a partnership with Peterborough NHS Trust.
(May 2010 – General Election in which Labour leaves office)
August 2010: shortlist narrowed to the final two: Serco and Circle.
November 2010 – Circle announced as preferred bidder.
November 2011 – Contract signed with Circle, which began work in February 2012.
Before the Election, when Labour was still in power, there were only private contractors left in the bidding, Labour had already excluded the public contractors.
Dont forget
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLcwhgrxTWs0 -
I have no objection to a Scottish debate seen in Scotland [a concession I might add to the regional dimension of UK politics]. But to impose the thoughts of Salmond/Sturgeon on the voters of Surrey and Sussex, etc would be farcical...NickPalmer said:
Isn't there regional variation, allowing broadcast of a debate between Sturgeon, Murphy, Davidson and so on which would mainly be seen in Scotland? I'd think it would attract considerable interest in cotland, and not much elsewhere, and as in England it's not so obvious that one party would benefit that it'd be hard to refuse.RodCrosby said:
Since 92% of the voters can neither vote for or against the SNP, what is the point, pray tell?foxinsoxuk said:
As SNP are as likely as the LDs, and more likely than UKIP to hold the balance of power, they should be at the debates, so we rUK voters can see which rUK policies they will support.JPJ2 said:Let's just suppose (as is entirely possible, perhaps even likely) that the SNP do win a majority of Scotland's seats (30) in the GE2015 and that they are then critical to the formation of a UK Government, whether in formal coalition or otherwise.
What excuses will Ofcom and the massed ranks of self serving unionists find to exclude the SNP from the next series of debates in a second GE2015 or in say, GE2020?
Come on, I am sure many of you can come up with some "democratic" reason :-)0 -
Neither of you understand the words "mostly" or "many".Socrates said:
In another survey, 78% thought the Jyllands-Posten cartoonists should be prosecuted.Indigo said:
Some are, some aren't. 16% of British Muslims believe suicide bombing could be justified against British military targets in the UK. 36% believe that modern British Values are a threat to the Muslim way of life.antifrank said:
If you read the article, the thrust of it is: "these are mostly hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising". And he's right.Indigo said:
Not a big surprise, this was when Dave was trying to attract Guardian readers to the Conservative Partyantifrank said:
It's a very good article. Rather more socially conservative than my tastes, but thoughtful and reflecting very well on Mr Cameron.Indigo said:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/may/13/comment.communitiesMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Indigo, ......
What an arse.
It seems to be around the same time he was hugging hoodies and huskies. I am quite sure that the vast majority of the voting public would say something along the lines of the old saw about "When in Rome" and wouldn't see why they should adjust their lifestyle to suit people arriving in the country.
Having lived the last five years in someone elses country I have been at pains to not criticize their attitudes or establishment, and I certainly wouldn't dream of suggesting they change their culture to suit me. When I live in another country I have the expectation of following their rules and doing things their way, people settling in the UK should grant us the same courtesy.
Anyone considering posting about British expats in Spain, please dont bother, we have heard it all before, if the Spanish chose to tolerate people behaving like yobs because they want the money, that's entirely their business.
http://www.populuslimited.com/Poll/Muslim-77-Poll-/0 -
Oh, and one third of British Muslims believe apostates leaving Islam should be sentenced to death:
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf0 -
Yes the rotten lefties did it and ran away!Indigo said:
You're having a giraffe
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/who-privatised-hinchingbrooke-hospital-and-does-it-matter/
July 2007 – Department of Health gives the Strategic Health Authority approval to examine different options, including franchises.
July 2009 – Department of Health approves the business case for an open competitive tender for a franchise.
October 2009 – Open competitive tender announced and 11 organisations submit bids, six are selected to move to the next stage. Of those six, only one was NHS-only: Addenbrooke’s in Cambridge. Circle say there was no mention of a preferred provider at any point in the tender.
February 2010 - Addenbrooke’s pull out of the bidding process.
March 2010 – Shortlist for the franchise announced: Serco, Ramsay and Circle. Serco’s bid did include a partnership with Peterborough NHS Trust.
(May 2010 – General Election in which Labour leaves office)
August 2010: shortlist narrowed to the final two: Serco and Circle.
November 2010 – Circle announced as preferred bidder.
November 2011 – Contract signed with Circle, which began work in February 2012.
Before the Election, when Labour was still in power, there were only private contractors left in the bidding, Labour had already excluded the public contractors.
Dont forget www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLcwhgrxTWs
DId the coalition halt the process? No. Did the Tories laud Circle in its embryonic phase? Yes. This is Tory ideology writ large.
It has failed and now the Tories will have to take the political consequences - not just for health but across the spectrum including schools and their failing Free Schools policy which will be ripe for attack.0 -
Top trolling...
@CCHQPress: Congratulations to @johnmcternan , who thanks to our #LongTermEconomicPlan, is now one of the 168,000 people back in work in Scotland0 -
Air France flight aborts landing at CDG...0
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You get funnier all the time, if Labour short listed only private contractors, what makes you think the Conservatives would want to halt the process. Perhaps they agreed with the Labour process, but it was still a Labour process for all that.BenM said:
Yes the rotten lefties did it and ran away!
DId the coalition halt the process? No. Did the Tories laud Circle in its embryonic phase? Yes. This is Tory ideology writ large.
It has failed and now the Tories will have to take the political consequences - not just for health but across the spectrum including schools and their failing Free Schools policy which will be ripe for attack.
0 -
Did they halt the process?BenM said:
Yes the rotten lefties did it and ran away!Indigo said:
You're having a giraffe
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/who-privatised-hinchingbrooke-hospital-and-does-it-matter/
July 2007 – Department of Health gives the Strategic Health Authority approval to examine different options, including franchises.
July 2009 – Department of Health approves the business case for an open competitive tender for a franchise.
October 2009 – Open competitive tender announced and 11 organisations submit bids, six are selected to move to the next stage. Of those six, only one was NHS-only: Addenbrooke’s in Cambridge. Circle say there was no mention of a preferred provider at any point in the tender.
February 2010 - Addenbrooke’s pull out of the bidding process.
March 2010 – Shortlist for the franchise announced: Serco, Ramsay and Circle. Serco’s bid did include a partnership with Peterborough NHS Trust.
(May 2010 – General Election in which Labour leaves office)
August 2010: shortlist narrowed to the final two: Serco and Circle.
November 2010 – Circle announced as preferred bidder.
November 2011 – Contract signed with Circle, which began work in February 2012.
Before the Election, when Labour was still in power, there were only private contractors left in the bidding, Labour had already excluded the public contractors.
Dont forget www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLcwhgrxTWs
DId the coalition halt the process? No. Did the Tories laud Circle in its embryonic phase? Yes. This is Tory ideology writ large.
It has failed and now the Tories will have to take the political consequences - not just for health but across the spectrum including schools and their failing Free Schools policy which will be ripe for attack.
The reason it was undertaken was because the Hospital was a basket case, as assessed by Andy Pandy Burnham.
Can you imagine the cries of waste of money if the process was stopped at the eleventh hour? Ben, your cake, eating it and rose coloured spectacles appear to tint the your world view of the intent with which Tories set out to create evil, inequality and disharmony.
I'm sure the Tories will take the political consequences, but they will be attracting the solids in the effluent that should be sticking to Labour.0 -
@politicshome: Just under 40% of Labour MPs have misgivings about Ed Miliband's proposal for a 'mansion tax' - anonymous poll finds. http://t.co/arHx7aq7220
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What percentage of a group hating our values would be a problem for you ?antifrank said:
Neither of you understand the words "mostly" or "many".Socrates said:
In another survey, 78% thought the Jyllands-Posten cartoonists should be prosecuted.Indigo said:
Some are, some aren't. 16% of British Muslims believe suicide bombing could be justified against British military targets in the UK. 36% believe that modern British Values are a threat to the Muslim way of life.antifrank said:
If you read the article, the thrust of it is: "these are mostly hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising". And he's right.Indigo said:
Not a big surprise, this was when Dave was trying to attract Guardian readers to the Conservative Partyantifrank said:
It's a very good article. Rather more socially conservative than my tastes, but thoughtful and reflecting very well on Mr Cameron.Indigo said:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/may/13/comment.communitiesMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Indigo, ......
What an arse.
It seems to be around the same time he was hugging hoodies and huskies. I am quite sure that the vast majority of the voting public would say something along the lines of the old saw about "When in Rome" and wouldn't see why they should adjust their lifestyle to suit people arriving in the country.
Having lived the last five years in someone elses country I have been at pains to not criticize their attitudes or establishment, and I certainly wouldn't dream of suggesting they change their culture to suit me. When I live in another country I have the expectation of following their rules and doing things their way, people settling in the UK should grant us the same courtesy.
Anyone considering posting about British expats in Spain, please dont bother, we have heard it all before, if the Spanish chose to tolerate people behaving like yobs because they want the money, that's entirely their business.
http://www.populuslimited.com/Poll/Muslim-77-Poll-/
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On topic - the SNP is also on the left.0
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Looks like it is coming to an endgame in Paris. I suspect they'll shortly be killed in a shootout, as they won't be able to face what I'd consider 'proper' justice under France's legal system.
0 -
Incorrect. Neither of us said you were wrong. We just added further information that was needed to give a well-rounded picture. The most important fact in assessing Muslims in the UK is that about 30-40% of British Muslims really don't share Western democratic values much at all, including 10-15% that are basically jihadist sympathisers. And the rest are highly conservative, especially in terms of women's rights, homophobia and free speech.antifrank said:
Neither of you understand the words "mostly" or "many".Socrates said:
In another survey, 78% thought the Jyllands-Posten cartoonists should be prosecuted.Indigo said:
Some are, some aren't. 16% of British Muslims believe suicide bombing could be justified against British military targets in the UK. 36% believe that modern British Values are a threat to the Muslim way of life.antifrank said:
If you read the article, the thrust of it is: "these are mostly hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising". And he's right.Indigo said:antifrank said:
It's a very good article. Rather more socially conservative than my tastes, but thoughtful and reflecting very well on Mr Cameron.Indigo said:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/may/13/comment.communitiesMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Indigo, ......
What an arse.
It seems to be around the same time he was hugging hoodies and huskies.
http://www.populuslimited.com/Poll/Muslim-77-Poll-/
Many of these people will be individually hard-working and pleasant, but to pretend that they're all well-integrated moderates outside of a "tiny minority" is burying our head in the sand. As is the liberal hand-waving about it improving with time: the evidence says the direct opposite, that younger generations of Muslims are more extreme.0 -
And you are missing the point... the fact is that of course most muslims are ""hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising".. it is so obvious as to be barely worth saying, and is at best a distractionantifrank said:
Neither of you understand the words "mostly" or "many".Socrates said:
In another survey, 78% thought the Jyllands-Posten cartoonists should be prosecuted.Indigo said:
Some are, some aren't. 16% of British Muslims believe suicide bombing could be justified against British military targets in the UK. 36% believe that modern British Values are a threat to the Muslim way of life.antifrank said:
If you read the article, the thrust of it is: "these are mostly hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising". And he's right.Indigo said:
Anyone considering posting about British expats in Spain, please dont bother, we have heard it all before, if the Spanish chose to tolerate people behaving like yobs because they want the money, that's entirely their business.antifrank said:
It's a very good article. Rather more socially conservative than my tastes, but thoughtful and reflecting very well on Mr Cameron.Indigo said:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/may/13/comment.communitiesMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Indigo, ......
What an arse.
It seems to be around the same time he was hugging hoodies and huskies.
http://www.populuslimited.com/Poll/Muslim-77-Poll-/
The problem has always been that there are a tiny amount that are prepared to go to any lengths to show how much they hate the values that we value etc, and they can only exist because of the number of "hardworking etc etcs"
The Islamic extremists are parasites carried by the muslim community. The rest of the community could be perfect specimens of purity, it wouldn't matter...
My cat is a beautiful creature who I love, but last month he had a v bad case of the fleas...
Would my house have been infested with fleas if I hadn't introduced a cat to it? No
Would getting rid of the cat get rid of the fleas? No, the cat was the host but now the house is the host
Should I have paid more attention to the problem of fleas before the problem became severe? Yes but I hoped it wouldn't happen, then didn't want to believe it of my cat0 -
Look out for handwringing in the usual places tomorrow, "did we really have to kill them" etc.Pulpstar said:Looks like it is coming to an endgame in Paris. I suspect they'll shortly be killed in a shootout, as they won't be able to face what I'd consider 'proper' justice under France's legal system.
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It's disturbing that the suspects are in the vicinity of Charles de Gaulle airport and that they apparently have rocket-propelled grenades with them.0
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Agreed. There is obviously concern for the hostages but I suspect enthusiasm for taking these scum alive will be minimal.Pulpstar said:Looks like it is coming to an endgame in Paris. I suspect they'll shortly be killed in a shootout, as they won't be able to face what I'd consider 'proper' justice under France's legal system.
0 -
To be really pedantic, the Big Four have contested every one of the Westminster by-elections in Great Britain, but they didn't contest those in Northern Ireland. (The Green Party in Northern Ireland didn't contest the NI by-elections either.)
Pedantic, as I said, but I think commentators are too quick to forget NI. All this talk of the Greens and UKIP, but the Greens are probably going to get less MPs than the DUP, SF or SDLP, and even UKIP could well be below the DUP or SF. Those NI seats may be crucial if there's a hung Parliament...0 -
The Tories have just selected a candidate for Belfast East and apparently UKIP and the Greens are intending to contest seats in NI as well.bondegezou said:To be really pedantic, the Big Four have contested every one of the Westminster by-elections in Great Britain, but they didn't contest those in Northern Ireland. (The Green Party in Northern Ireland didn't contest the NI by-elections either.)
Pedantic, as I said, but I think commentators are too quick to forget NI. All this talk of the Greens and UKIP, but the Greens are probably going to get less MPs than the DUP, SF or SDLP, and even UKIP could well be below the DUP or SF. Those NI seats may be crucial if there's a hung Parliament...0 -
Indeed, although the DUP has already said it wont go into coalition with anyone.bondegezou said:To be really pedantic, the Big Four have contested every one of the Westminster by-elections in Great Britain, but they didn't contest those in Northern Ireland. (The Green Party in Northern Ireland didn't contest the NI by-elections either.)
Pedantic, as I said, but I think commentators are too quick to forget NI. All this talk of the Greens and UKIP, but the Greens are probably going to get less MPs than the DUP, SF or SDLP, and even UKIP could well be below the DUP or SF. Those NI seats may be crucial if there's a hung Parliament...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30396237
and SF almost certainly won't take their seats.
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Since the E&W Greens have no electoral presence in Scotland and UKIP's is negligible, presumably those debates including them shouldn't be screened in Scotland.HYUFD said:MalcolmG Just have UK debates with the Greens and UKIP, and a Scottish debate with Sturgeon or Salmond, Davidson, Murphy and Rennie and do the same in Wales and NI, simples!
0 -
I really hope they can keep them alive. It's best to deny them their martyrdom, pick apart their perverted narrative and expose their moral hypocracy in court.DavidL said:
Agreed. There is obviously concern for the hostages but I suspect enthusiasm for taking these scum alive will be minimal.Pulpstar said:Looks like it is coming to an endgame in Paris. I suspect they'll shortly be killed in a shootout, as they won't be able to face what I'd consider 'proper' justice under France's legal system.
0 -
O/T
Wonderful news from Sri Lanka - shows the power of democracy.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-307386710 -
The Green Party in Northern Ireland is a separate party again.AndyJS said:
The Tories have just selected a candidate for Belfast East and apparently UKIP and the Greens are intending to contest seats in NI as well.bondegezou said:To be really pedantic, the Big Four have contested every one of the Westminster by-elections in Great Britain, but they didn't contest those in Northern Ireland. (The Green Party in Northern Ireland didn't contest the NI by-elections either.)
Pedantic, as I said, but I think commentators are too quick to forget NI. All this talk of the Greens and UKIP, but the Greens are probably going to get less MPs than the DUP, SF or SDLP, and even UKIP could well be below the DUP or SF. Those NI seats may be crucial if there's a hung Parliament...0 -
0
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The Greens are effectively one party across the UK even though they're organised into four separate parties.Theuniondivvie said:
Since the E&W Greens have no electoral presence in Scotland and UKIP's is negligible, presumably those debates including them shouldn't be screened in Scotland.HYUFD said:MalcolmG Just have UK debates with the Greens and UKIP, and a Scottish debate with Sturgeon or Salmond, Davidson, Murphy and Rennie and do the same in Wales and NI, simples!
0 -
I believe UKIP stand in all constituencies in Scotland, if the SNP stood in all constituencies in the UK I would imagine there would be support them appearing in the UK debates.Theuniondivvie said:
Since the E&W Greens have no electoral presence in Scotland and UKIP's is negligible, presumably those debates including them shouldn't be screened in Scotland.HYUFD said:MalcolmG Just have UK debates with the Greens and UKIP, and a Scottish debate with Sturgeon or Salmond, Davidson, Murphy and Rennie and do the same in Wales and NI, simples!
0 -
While we have the likes of the English Defence League and Pegida, and political leaders telling us that we have a fifth column within our ranks, it isn't so obvious as to be barely worth saying.isam said:
And you are missing the point... the fact is that of course most muslims are ""hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising".. it is so obvious as to be barely worth saying, and is at best a distractionantifrank said:
Neither of you understand the words "mostly" or "many".Socrates said:
In another survey, 78% thought the Jyllands-Posten cartoonists should be prosecuted.Indigo said:
Some are, some aren't. 16% of British Muslims believe suicide bombing could be justified against British military targets in the UK. 36% believe that modern British Values are a threat to the Muslim way of life.antifrank said:
If you read the article, the thrust of it is: "these are mostly hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising". And he's right.Indigo said:
Anyone considering posting about British expats in Spain, please dont bother, we have heard it all before, if the Spanish chose to tolerate people behaving like yobs because they want the money, that's entirely their business.antifrank said:
It's a very good article. Rather more socially conservative than my tastes, but thoughtful and reflecting very well on Mr Cameron.Indigo said:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/may/13/comment.communitiesMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Indigo, ......
What an arse.
It seems to be around the same time he was hugging hoodies and huskies.
http://www.populuslimited.com/Poll/Muslim-77-Poll-/0 -
in my day democrats, liberals (general sense) were not comfortable with extrajudicial execution.Indigo said:
Look out for handwringing in the usual places tomorrow, "did we really have to kill them" etc.Pulpstar said:Looks like it is coming to an endgame in Paris. I suspect they'll shortly be killed in a shootout, as they won't be able to face what I'd consider 'proper' justice under France's legal system.
0 -
Mr. Antifrank, what's unreasonable about considering home-grown terrorists to be a 'fifth column'? They're here, but against all our countries stand for.0
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We do have a fifth column in our ranks. How else would you describe the thousands of fundamentalist Muslims that support Al Qaeda? In what way are they not a fifth column?antifrank said:
While we have the likes of the English Defence League and Pegida, and political leaders telling us that we have a fifth column within our ranks, it isn't so obvious as to be barely worth saying.isam said:
And you are missing the point... the fact is that of course most muslims are ""hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising".. it is so obvious as to be barely worth saying, and is at best a distractionantifrank said:
Neither of you understand the words "mostly" or "many".Socrates said:
In another survey, 78% thought the Jyllands-Posten cartoonists should be prosecuted.Indigo said:
Some are, some aren't. 16% of British Muslims believe suicide bombing could be justified against British military targets in the UK. 36% believe that modern British Values are a threat to the Muslim way of life.antifrank said:
If you read the article, the thrust of it is: "these are mostly hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising". And he's right.Indigo said:
Anyone considering posting about British expats in Spain, please dont bother, we have heard it all before, if the Spanish chose to tolerate people behaving like yobs because they want the money, that's entirely their business.antifrank said:
It's a very good article. Rather more socially conservative than my tastes, but thoughtful and reflecting very well on Mr Cameron.Indigo said:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/may/13/comment.communitiesMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Indigo, ......
What an arse.
It seems to be around the same time he was hugging hoodies and huskies.
http://www.populuslimited.com/Poll/Muslim-77-Poll-/
It boggles my mind how some people get more upset by a politician using a description that is entirely accurate, yet hand-wave away the fact the huge numbers of actual extremists we have here.0 -
@PopulusPolls: Latest Populus VI: Lab 34 (-2), Con 33 (-1), LD 8 (-1), UKIP 14 (+2), Oth 11 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/R0TX0BX9Ir0
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They wouldn't qualify for major party status in Scotland by some distance so why should they get piggy-backed into our living rooms?Indigo said:
I believe UKIP stand in all constituencies in Scotland, if the SNP stood in all constituencies in the UK I would imagine there would be support them appearing in the UK debates.Theuniondivvie said:
Since the E&W Greens have no electoral presence in Scotland and UKIP's is negligible, presumably those debates including them shouldn't be screened in Scotland.HYUFD said:MalcolmG Just have UK debates with the Greens and UKIP, and a Scottish debate with Sturgeon or Salmond, Davidson, Murphy and Rennie and do the same in Wales and NI, simples!
0 -
I can see that the kippers and the kipper fellow travellers are forgetting today about their usual argument that to persuade people who you want to bring in from the dark side you have to do more than shout abuse at them. Oh well. I'm sure we'll get another dose of it before the week is out.0
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So the SNP can buy their way into the debates just by coughing up 600 odd deposits?Indigo said:
I believe UKIP stand in all constituencies in Scotland, if the SNP stood in all constituencies in the UK I would imagine there would be support them appearing in the UK debates.Theuniondivvie said:
Since the E&W Greens have no electoral presence in Scotland and UKIP's is negligible, presumably those debates including them shouldn't be screened in Scotland.HYUFD said:MalcolmG Just have UK debates with the Greens and UKIP, and a Scottish debate with Sturgeon or Salmond, Davidson, Murphy and Rennie and do the same in Wales and NI, simples!
It's all a bit absurd, no?0 -
So another poll with a shrinking Labour lead. December's Lab surge c'est une mirage0
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According to that poll it seems around ~ 10% of British muslims hold abhorrent views.
So it is at least 200,000.
0 -
The security services taking out heavily armed terrorists that are a live and present danger to citizen's security is not an "extrajudicial execution".dugarbandier said:
in my day democrats, liberals (general sense) were not comfortable with extrajudicial execution.Indigo said:
Look out for handwringing in the usual places tomorrow, "did we really have to kill them" etc.Pulpstar said:Looks like it is coming to an endgame in Paris. I suspect they'll shortly be killed in a shootout, as they won't be able to face what I'd consider 'proper' justice under France's legal system.
0 -
He is saying in effect that "he would rather ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer", although I wonder how many people those guilty people have to blow up before that starts to fall out of favour.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Antifrank, what's unreasonable about considering home-grown terrorists to be a 'fifth column'? They're here, but against all our countries stand for.
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Voting for the SNP would be a fantastic NOTA option in England though :PPong said:
So the SNP can buy their way into the debates just by coughing up 600 odd deposits?Indigo said:
I believe UKIP stand in all constituencies in Scotland, if the SNP stood in all constituencies in the UK I would imagine there would be support them appearing in the UK debates.Theuniondivvie said:
Since the E&W Greens have no electoral presence in Scotland and UKIP's is negligible, presumably those debates including them shouldn't be screened in Scotland.HYUFD said:MalcolmG Just have UK debates with the Greens and UKIP, and a Scottish debate with Sturgeon or Salmond, Davidson, Murphy and Rennie and do the same in Wales and NI, simples!
It's all a bit absurd, no?0 -
Because you lostTheuniondivvie said:
They wouldn't qualify for major party status in Scotland by some distance so why should they get piggy-backed into our living rooms?Indigo said:
I believe UKIP stand in all constituencies in Scotland, if the SNP stood in all constituencies in the UK I would imagine there would be support them appearing in the UK debates.Theuniondivvie said:
Since the E&W Greens have no electoral presence in Scotland and UKIP's is negligible, presumably those debates including them shouldn't be screened in Scotland.HYUFD said:MalcolmG Just have UK debates with the Greens and UKIP, and a Scottish debate with Sturgeon or Salmond, Davidson, Murphy and Rennie and do the same in Wales and NI, simples!
Scotland is unfortunately still part of the UK, so you might as well ask why the Conservative party is still being piped into the living rooms in Merseyside since they haven't had any seats there for ages (Wirral West accepted)0 -
I'm not saying any such thing. I'm saying that David Cameron's article correctly argues that we should not be treating all Muslims as suicide bombers (he makes a very neat point, incidentally, about the use of the words Islamic and Islamist which has been completely ignored since, sadly), but rather recognising some of the virtues of most British Muslims.Indigo said:
He is saying in effect that "he would rather ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer", although I wonder how many people those guilty people have to blow up before that starts to fall out of favour.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Antifrank, what's unreasonable about considering home-grown terrorists to be a 'fifth column'? They're here, but against all our countries stand for.
I'm not struck on all the cultural conservatism that so appeals to David Cameron, personally, but I appreciate that he's writing from a different perspective from me - a pretty mainstream Burkean perspective, it seems.
Perhaps Edmund Burke is too LibLabCon nowadays.0 -
UKIP back over the 300 mark - perhaps their demise was forecast too soon.TheScreamingEagles said:@PopulusPolls: Latest Populus VI: Lab 34 (-2), Con 33 (-1), LD 8 (-1), UKIP 14 (+2), Oth 11 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/R0TX0BX9Ir
0 -
Incidentally, how come people like antifrank go to lengths to say Muslims on the whole should not be tarred by the subset that have extremist views, yet is happy to slam PEGIDA on the whole due to the subset that have extremist views?0
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LD to L switchers now below 20% on a gross basis. Seems to have gone Green. Is this a one off or part of a trend. Nick Palmer mentioned that the LD switchers are voters rather than non voters.TheScreamingEagles said:@PopulusPolls: Latest Populus VI: Lab 34 (-2), Con 33 (-1), LD 8 (-1), UKIP 14 (+2), Oth 11 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/R0TX0BX9Ir
0 -
UKIP higher with Populus than YouGov.Pulpstar said:
UKIP back over the 300 mark - perhaps their demise was forecast too soon.TheScreamingEagles said:@PopulusPolls: Latest Populus VI: Lab 34 (-2), Con 33 (-1), LD 8 (-1), UKIP 14 (+2), Oth 11 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/R0TX0BX9Ir
Is interesting.0 -
14 still below the long term average - pity the graph is out of date by 4 weeks.Pulpstar said:
UKIP back over the 300 mark - perhaps their demise was forecast too soon.TheScreamingEagles said:@PopulusPolls: Latest Populus VI: Lab 34 (-2), Con 33 (-1), LD 8 (-1), UKIP 14 (+2), Oth 11 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/R0TX0BX9Ir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election0 -
Yes it is.antifrank said:
While we have the likes of the English Defence League and Pegida, and political leaders telling us that we have a fifth column within our ranks, it isn't so obvious as to be barely worth saying.isam said:
And you are missing the point... the fact is that of course most muslims are ""hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising".. it is so obvious as to be barely worth saying, and is at best a distractionantifrank said:
Neither of you understand the words "mostly" or "many".Socrates said:
In another survey, 78% thought the Jyllands-Posten cartoonists should be prosecuted.Indigo said:
Some are, some aren't. 16% of British Muslims believe suicide bombing could be justified against British military targets in the UK. 36% believe that modern British Values are a threat to the Muslim way of life.antifrank said:
If you read the article, the thrust of it is: "these are mostly hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising". And he's right.Indigo said:
Anyone considering posting about British expats in Spain, please dont bother, we have heard it all before, if the Spanish chose to tolerate people behaving like yobs because they want the money, that's entirely their business.antifrank said:
It's a very good article. Rather more socially conservative than my tastes, but thoughtful and reflecting very well on Mr Cameron.Indigo said:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/may/13/comment.communitiesMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Indigo, ......
What an arse.
It seems to be around the same time he was hugging hoodies and huskies.
http://www.populuslimited.com/Poll/Muslim-77-Poll-/0 -
Fewer than 1% of the population of Dresden is Muslim. Why do tens of thousands there feel the need to go on the march as "Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamization of the West"? X for xenophobia marks the spot.Socrates said:Incidentally, how come people like antifrank go to lengths to say Muslims on the whole should not be tarred by the subset that have extremist views, yet is happy to slam PEGIDA on the whole due to the subset that have extremist views?
0 -
Presumably MI5 / MI6 or whatever knows each and every IP address. Why are the ISP's carrying this website ?Indigo said:
Apparently people 125,000 in the UK regularly download the ISIS propaganda magazine...Pulpstar said:According to that poll it seems around ~ 10% of British muslims hold abhorrent views.
So it is at least 200,000.0 -
Edmund Burke in the 1780s spoke passionately about the worrying drift towards social illiberalism, and I'm sure he would do again if he was alive today and witnessed the views of large numbers of British Muslims.antifrank said:
Perhaps Edmund Burke is too LibLabCon nowadays.
What abuse has been shouted at you by Kippers today? Could you quote some of it?
You might do better in having an amicable discussion if you actually acknowledged the points Kippers were making rather than just ignoring any inconvenient evidence and arguments.0 -
I am considering the broader point of how many atrocities and outrages the British public will take before their view turn decisively and we have a problem on our hands. Liberalism could die very fast and all sorts of nasty things gain currency and support from an outraged public.Socrates said:Incidentally, how come people like antifrank go to lengths to say Muslims on the whole should not be tarred by the subset that have extremist views, yet is happy to slam PEGIDA on the whole due to the subset that have extremist views?
0 -
It's a tricky one. If armed police had shot dead the murderers of Lee Rigby would that have been better or worse? I don't believe in the death sentence in the sense of the State killing people in cold blood but I am not entirely sure what we gained from the trial.Pong said:
I really hope they can keep them alive. It's best to deny them their martyrdom, pick apart their perverted narrative and expose their moral hypocracy in court.DavidL said:
Agreed. There is obviously concern for the hostages but I suspect enthusiasm for taking these scum alive will be minimal.Pulpstar said:Looks like it is coming to an endgame in Paris. I suspect they'll shortly be killed in a shootout, as they won't be able to face what I'd consider 'proper' justice under France's legal system.
0 -
Scotland is still part of the UK when it comes to having its political views subsumed into those of its much larger neighbour, but that's one way traffic it would appear.Indigo said:
Scotland is unfortunately still part of the UK, so you might as well ask why the Conservative party is still being piped into the living rooms in Merseyside since they haven't had any seats there for ages (Wirral West accepted)
0 -
Labour is also at their equal lowest with Populus.TGOHF said:
14 still below the long term average - pity the graph is out of date by 4 weeks.Pulpstar said:
UKIP back over the 300 mark - perhaps their demise was forecast too soon.TheScreamingEagles said:@PopulusPolls: Latest Populus VI: Lab 34 (-2), Con 33 (-1), LD 8 (-1), UKIP 14 (+2), Oth 11 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/R0TX0BX9Ir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election0 -
Anyone reading your posts over the last 24 hours could be forgiven for gaining the impression that you were an extremist, albeit one who holds differing beliefs and worships a different 'god'.Socrates said:
We do have a fifth column in our ranks. How else would you describe the thousands of fundamentalist Muslims that support Al Qaeda? In what way are they not a fifth column?antifrank said:
While we have the likes of the English Defence League and Pegida, and political leaders telling us that we have a fifth column within our ranks, it isn't so obvious as to be barely worth saying.isam said:
And you are missing the point... the fact is that of course most muslims are ""hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising".. it is so obvious as to be barely worth saying, and is at best a distractionantifrank said:
Neither of you understand the words "mostly" or "many".Socrates said:
In another survey, 78% thought the Jyllands-Posten cartoonists should be prosecuted.Indigo said:
Some are, some aren't. 16% of British Muslims believe suicide bombing could be justified against British military targets in the UK. 36% believe that modern British Values are a threat to the Muslim way of life.antifrank said:
If you read the article, the thrust of it is: "these are mostly hardworking Brits who share many of the values that we value, and who we should be welcoming, not stigmatising". And he's right.Indigo said:
Anyone considering posting about British expats in Spain, please dont bother, we have heard it all before, if the Spanish chose to tolerate people behaving like yobs because they want the money, that's entirely their business.antifrank said:
It's a very good article. Rather more socially conservative than my tastes, but thoughtful and reflecting very well on Mr Cameron.Indigo said:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/may/13/comment.communitiesMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Indigo, ......
What an arse.
It seems to be around the same time he was hugging hoodies and huskies.
http://www.populuslimited.com/Poll/Muslim-77-Poll-/
It boggles my mind how some people get more upset by a politician using a description that is entirely accurate, yet hand-wave away the fact the huge numbers of actual extremists we have here.0 -
Yougov doesn't have to do nearly as much weighting on the UKIP figure that Populus does. Any idea why - they are both internet polling Cos...TheScreamingEagles said:
UKIP higher with Populus than YouGov.Pulpstar said:
UKIP back over the 300 mark - perhaps their demise was forecast too soon.TheScreamingEagles said:@PopulusPolls: Latest Populus VI: Lab 34 (-2), Con 33 (-1), LD 8 (-1), UKIP 14 (+2), Oth 11 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/R0TX0BX9Ir
Is interesting.
0 -
He would certainly be worried about your views.Socrates said:
Edmund Burke in the 1780s spoke passionately about the worrying drift towards social illiberalism, and I'm sure he would do again if he was alive today and witnessed the views of large numbers of British Muslims.antifrank said:
Perhaps Edmund Burke is too LibLabCon nowadays.
What abuse has been shouted at you by Kippers today? Could you quote some of it?
You might do better in having an amicable discussion if you actually acknowledged the points Kippers were making rather than just ignoring any inconvenient evidence and arguments.0 -
Mr. Antifrank, not sure xenophobia's the right word. The protest isn't against a race or nationality, it's against a religion.
That's an interesting question two days after a dozen journalists and policemen were killed by men proclaiming the Prophet has been avenged.
Edited extra bit: I do think politicians and (here at least) the media have been derelict in their duty to stand up for freedom of speech. By proclaiming such attacks have nothing at all to do with Islam and that the perpetrators are by definition not Muslims, those worried believe that all Islam/Muslims are of that mindset instead of the violent minority.
Would we suggest the IRA attackers were not Irish?0 -
David Gottlieb making a complete tosspot of himself.DavidL said:
It's a tricky one. If armed police had shot dead the murderers of Lee Rigby would that have been better or worse? I don't believe in the death sentence in the sense of the State killing people in cold blood but I am not entirely sure what we gained from the trial.Pong said:
I really hope they can keep them alive. It's best to deny them their martyrdom, pick apart their perverted narrative and expose their moral hypocracy in court.DavidL said:
Agreed. There is obviously concern for the hostages but I suspect enthusiasm for taking these scum alive will be minimal.Pulpstar said:Looks like it is coming to an endgame in Paris. I suspect they'll shortly be killed in a shootout, as they won't be able to face what I'd consider 'proper' justice under France's legal system.
0 -
In the least surprising news ever #McTernanPredicts has been announced as Jim Murphy's chief of staff.0
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If it were 0.05% that supported extremist views, and 5% of that tiny percentage got involved in terrorism, that's 1250 British Muslims. Percentage wise, a speck of dust on the window sill, but in actual number, more than enough for absolute carnagePulpstar said:According to that poll it seems around ~ 10% of British muslims hold abhorrent views.
So it is at least 200,000.0 -
Populus' party ID weighting is harsh on UKIP.Pulpstar said:
Yougov doesn't have to do nearly as much weighting on the UKIP figure that Populus does. Any idea why - they are both internet polling Cos...TheScreamingEagles said:
UKIP higher with Populus than YouGov.Pulpstar said:
UKIP back over the 300 mark - perhaps their demise was forecast too soon.TheScreamingEagles said:@PopulusPolls: Latest Populus VI: Lab 34 (-2), Con 33 (-1), LD 8 (-1), UKIP 14 (+2), Oth 11 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/R0TX0BX9Ir
Is interesting.
As all the pollsters say there's far too much past recall errors with UKIP voters.
But YouGov now prompt for UKIP and less severe but still have UKIP lower than Populus.
Is a mystery.0 -
If you're not going to bother to try to read what I write, I'm not going to bother replying to your points. I've not suggested at any point that kippers have shouted abuse at me today.Socrates said:
Edmund Burke in the 1780s spoke passionately about the worrying drift towards social illiberalism, and I'm sure he would do again if he was alive today and witnessed the views of large numbers of British Muslims.antifrank said:
Perhaps Edmund Burke is too LibLabCon nowadays.
What abuse has been shouted at you by Kippers today? Could you quote some of it?
You might do better in having an amicable discussion if you actually acknowledged the points Kippers were making rather than just ignoring any inconvenient evidence and arguments.
But carry on labelling Muslims as fifth columnists and marching against Islamization. I'm sure that will improve the chances of bringing society together peacefully and harmoniously.0 -
Populus had Ukip on 15% on Novemeber 23rd..TheScreamingEagles said:
UKIP higher with Populus than YouGov.Pulpstar said:
UKIP back over the 300 mark - perhaps their demise was forecast too soon.TheScreamingEagles said:@PopulusPolls: Latest Populus VI: Lab 34 (-2), Con 33 (-1), LD 8 (-1), UKIP 14 (+2), Oth 11 (+1). Tables here: http://t.co/R0TX0BX9Ir
Is interesting.0 -
If we're quoting poll figures, it seems worth noting that polls of the UK population in general show significant proportions believing surprising things. For example, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14572054 has 14% of the UK population believing the US government was behind 9/11. 24% say Princess Di was assassinated. 12% say the Moon landings were faked (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2012/07/04/we-ask-conspiracy-theories/). More than 10% have seen a UFO: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/352286/More-people-believe-in-aliens-than-God-reveals-pollSocrates said:Oh, and one third of British Muslims believe apostates leaving Islam should be sentenced to death:
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf
Go to the US, and it gets worse: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/02/americans-obama-anti-christ-conspiracy-theories I quote:13% of respondents thought Obama was "the antichrist", while another 13% were "not sure" – and so were at least appeared to be open to the possibility that he might be. Some 73% of people were able to say outright that they did not think Obama was "the antichrist".
The point is that lots of people will say things in polls that are pretty extreme while generally still being normal, law-abiding members of society. So, just as I wouldn't describe all Americans as dangerous because of those polling numbers or all British people are loony because a quarter think Princess Di was assassinated, I'd treat the polling numbers you offer of British Muslims with some caution.
The survey also showed that 37% of Americans thought that global warming was a hoax, while 12% were not sure and a slim majority – 51% – agreed with the overwhelming majority view of the scientific establishment and thought that it was not. The survey also revealed that 28% of people believed in a sinister global New World Order conspiracy, aimed at ruling the whole world through authoritarian government. Another 25% were "not sure" and only a minority of American voters – 46% – thought such a conspiracy theory was not true.
Likewise, polls of Christians (particularly Catholics and 'other Christians') in the UK have high proportions saying homosexuality is never acceptable: http://www.brin.ac.uk/figures/attitudes-towards-gay-rights/ However, the polls reviewed there didn't ask respondents what they thought should be done about the matter.0 -
Mr. Antifrank, I don't think Muslims are a fifth column, but the violent jihadist lunatic minority are.0
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The events in France might just supply you with the answer to your question.antifrank said:
Fewer than 1% of the population of Dresden is Muslim. Why do tens of thousands there feel the need to go on the march as "Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamization of the West"? X for xenophobia marks the spot.Socrates said:Incidentally, how come people like antifrank go to lengths to say Muslims on the whole should not be tarred by the subset that have extremist views, yet is happy to slam PEGIDA on the whole due to the subset that have extremist views?
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