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SystemSystem Posts: 12,680
edited January 2015 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If UKIP is a bit on the wane then maybe there are some good bets out there

The only other one on the UKIP “favourites to win” list is Boston and Skegness where there was a promising donor-funded Survation poll for UKIP which has yet to be looked at by Lord A.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    RIP Christopher Hitchens:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sEcBzxoMB8
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Comments not allowed on Guardian article about Charlie Hebdo:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/07/charlie-hebdo-islam-prophet-muhammad
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    @zerohedge: Paris Attack Suspects Arrested, Liberation Reports http://t.co/TuobApjfxp
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I read a report the perps are Syria returnees.

    If that is true, it may affect into the debate about where we are with our returning Jihadists.
  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    The Mail has the uncensored photo of the injured police officer, lying on the floor with his hands up, about to be executed, at the top of its website. There is no good reason to show that.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    I predict some kipper willy waving in response to this thread....
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2015
    TwistedFireStopper said:

    The Mail has the uncensored photo of the injured police officer, lying on the floor with his hands up, about to be executed, at the top of its website. There is no good reason to show that.

    Sky News showed the video footage earlier I think.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,584
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I predict some kipper willy waving in response to this thread....

    I fear (and I know this is not what you are referring to so forgive me for hijacking your comment) that some of the less sensible voices in UKIP might see the events of today as a way to shore up support and increase their anti-muslim message. That could very seriously backfire and I hope that the people in senior positions have more sense than that.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,894
    The massive differences between some of these constituency polls that were conducted within a few months of each other makes me a bit weary about their level of accuracy.
  • ashleyashley Posts: 19
    I think David Cameron has got very lucky with his handling of NHS being knocked off the news agenda.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I predict some kipper willy waving in response to this thread....

    I fear (and I know this is not what you are referring to so forgive me for hijacking your comment) that some of the less sensible voices in UKIP might see the events of today as a way to shore up support and increase their anti-muslim message. That could very seriously backfire and I hope that the people in senior positions have more sense than that.
    you've seen farage on channel 4 then?

    Can I say that whilst we slightly disagree on the whole 'eu' thing, the slightly independent approach you take to your preferred party as opposed to a purple-herd man is refreshing!

    A sort of Tory Carswell if you like....

  • Paul_Mid_BedsPaul_Mid_Beds Posts: 1,409
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I predict some kipper willy waving in response to this thread....

    I fear (and I know this is not what you are referring to so forgive me for hijacking your comment) that some of the less sensible voices in UKIP might see the events of today as a way to shore up support and increase their anti-muslim message. That could very seriously backfire and I hope that the people in senior positions have more sense than that.
    I'm not aware that UKIP have an "anti-muslim message" to "increase"


  • isamisam Posts: 42,606
    edited January 2015
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I predict some kipper willy waving in response to this thread....

    I fear (and I know this is not what you are referring to so forgive me for hijacking your comment) that some of the less sensible voices in UKIP might see the events of today as a way to shore up support and increase their anti-muslim message. That could very seriously backfire and I hope that the people in senior positions have more sense than that.
    you've seen farage on channel 4 then?

    Can I say that whilst we slightly disagree on the whole 'eu' thing, the slightly independent approach you take to your preferred party as opposed to a purple-herd man is refreshing!

    A sort of Tory Carswell if you like....

    You don't think there is a group living in the UK and France who hate us?
  • ashleyashley Posts: 19
    isam said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I predict some kipper willy waving in response to this thread....

    I fear (and I know this is not what you are referring to so forgive me for hijacking your comment) that some of the less sensible voices in UKIP might see the events of today as a way to shore up support and increase their anti-muslim message. That could very seriously backfire and I hope that the people in senior positions have more sense than that.
    you've seen farage on channel 4 then?

    Can I say that whilst we slightly disagree on the whole 'eu' thing, the slightly independent approach you take to your preferred party as opposed to a purple-herd man is refreshing!

    A sort of Tory Carswell if you like....

    You don't think there are a group living in the UK and France who hate us?
    what do you mean by "us"?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,606
    edited January 2015
    .
  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    ashley said:

    I think David Cameron has got very lucky with his handling of NHS being knocked off the news agenda.

    Yeah, I bet he's rubbing his hands together at the prospect of more religious strife, terrorist threats and increased mistrust of Muslims that todays executions in Paris will bring.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    7m Piers Scholfield @inglesi
    Liberation corrected - no longer says suspects arrested pic.twitter.com/QBoSKoJxqp
    Retweeted by Ross Hawkins
  • isamisam Posts: 42,606
    ashley said:

    isam said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I predict some kipper willy waving in response to this thread....

    I fear (and I know this is not what you are referring to so forgive me for hijacking your comment) that some of the less sensible voices in UKIP might see the events of today as a way to shore up support and increase their anti-muslim message. That could very seriously backfire and I hope that the people in senior positions have more sense than that.
    you've seen farage on channel 4 then?

    Can I say that whilst we slightly disagree on the whole 'eu' thing, the slightly independent approach you take to your preferred party as opposed to a purple-herd man is refreshing!

    A sort of Tory Carswell if you like....

    You don't think there are a group living in the UK and France who hate us?
    what do you mean by "us"?
    Martians
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    I think it is a bold claim that UKIP's position will actively improve come May. I think seats will be like sand trickling through UKIP's hands: lots seem like they might go purple; but only a few grains remain when all is said and done.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @ashley

    'I think David Cameron has got very lucky with his handling of NHS being knocked off the news agenda.'

    Unlucky for Ed,he's got nothing left to talk about.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    TwistedFireStopper said:

    The Mail has the uncensored photo of the injured police officer, lying on the floor with his hands up, about to be executed, at the top of its website. There is no good reason to show that.

    I believe there's a rhyming newspaper maxim that explains the reasoning.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited January 2015
    AndyJS said:

    TwistedFireStopper said:

    The Mail has the uncensored photo of the injured police officer, lying on the floor with his hands up, about to be executed, at the top of its website. There is no good reason to show that.

    Sky News showed the video footage earlier I think.
    reports that he was a 42-year-old Muslim policeman, Ahmed Merabet...
    http://www.dailysabah.com/europe/2015/01/07/at-least-10-dies-at-paris-charlie-hebdo-attack
  • Paul_Mid_BedsPaul_Mid_Beds Posts: 1,409
    What timing for Cameron to cave in over the EU migrant cap.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/07/uk-migration-cap-cameron-merkel_n_6428840.html

    Only this morning, in a comment in the first of his two subtle little apparent dig at UKIP threads today OGH opined in a response to the comment that the UKIP vote share in last nights Yougov poll might be because UKIP have not been on the TV for a while "I think that is right. Insurgent parties need to be getting media attention which UKIP haven't had for some time. Even Farage's promise to go "on the wagon" in January has hardly been noticed.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,737
    I think you may be jumping the gun a but Mike, one poll doesn't mean UKIP is on the wane. I understand the need to get in early, and not wanting to lower the tone, but with what is happening across the channel it leaves UKIP in a stronger position than yesterday to capitalise on their core anti-immigration message. That same message aimed at the same group almost saw them home in a Labour stronghold a few months back.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,534
    edited January 2015
    FFS....BBC already at it,

    "the potential backlash, including support for far right parties and groups, may well hurt ordinary Muslims more than anyone else,"

    not even 24hrs and they pushing the usual nonsense.
  • ashleyashley Posts: 19
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FFS....BBC already at it,

    "the potential backlash, including support for far right parties and groups, may well hurt ordinary Muslims more than anyone else,"

    not even 24hrs and they pushing the usual nonsense.

    What's nonsense about it?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I predict some kipper willy waving in response to this thread....

    I fear (and I know this is not what you are referring to so forgive me for hijacking your comment) that some of the less sensible voices in UKIP might see the events of today as a way to shore up support and increase their anti-muslim message. That could very seriously backfire and I hope that the people in senior positions have more sense than that.
    You've seen some of the bile on today's threads then?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,196
    edited January 2015
    Paul_Mid_Beds said:

    What timing for Cameron to cave in over the EU migrant cap.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/07/uk-migration-cap-cameron-merkel_n_6428840.html

    Only this morning, in a comment in the first of his two subtle little apparent dig at UKIP threads today OGH opined in a response to the comment that the UKIP vote share in last nights Yougov poll might be because UKIP have not been on the TV for a while "I think that is right. Insurgent parties need to be getting media attention which UKIP haven't had for some time. Even Farage's promise to go "on the wagon" in January has hardly been noticed.

    Osborne also spiked May's proposal today to cut net migration by requiring foreign students to leave the UK after completing their university studies, and reapply for a new work visa subsequently, according to the Evening Standard tonight.

    The Evening Standard editorial and all its columnists were lauding this and praising Osborne for doing so.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Expert on BBC News calling this a massive security failure by the French state, saying there should have been many more than two police guarding the building.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,737
    ashley said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FFS....BBC already at it,

    "the potential backlash, including support for far right parties and groups, may well hurt ordinary Muslims more than anyone else,"

    not even 24hrs and they pushing the usual nonsense.

    What's nonsense about it?
    Maybe ordinary Muslims need to be out marching against these idiots and properly disowning them instead of just standing around looking at the floor and "deploring violence".
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    The police officer videoed being shot in the head was a Muslim
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,537
    ashley said:

    I think David Cameron has got very lucky with his handling of NHS being knocked off the news agenda.

    I'm sure he's delighted.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited January 2015
    Socrates said:

    The police officer videoed being shot in the head was a Muslim

    An unarmed patrol officer on a bike.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    MaxPB said:

    ashley said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FFS....BBC already at it,

    "the potential backlash, including support for far right parties and groups, may well hurt ordinary Muslims more than anyone else,"

    not even 24hrs and they pushing the usual nonsense.

    What's nonsense about it?
    Maybe ordinary Muslims need to be out marching against these idiots and properly disowning them instead of just standing around looking at the floor and "deploring violence".
    To be fair, some of them are. To be fair to others, I'm not out marching either, so it's not reasonable to expect others that oppose these attacks to.

    As long as a Muslim supports equal rights, democracy and free speech, I don't expect anything more from them. I just worry about the large number that don't.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    RodCrosby said:

    Socrates said:

    The police officer videoed being shot in the head was a Muslim

    An unarmed patrol officer on a bike.
    What happened to the two police who were supposed to be guarding the building? Surely they would have been armed to some extent.
  • Fat_SteveFat_Steve Posts: 361
    ashley said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FFS....BBC already at it,

    "the potential backlash, including support for far right parties and groups, may well hurt ordinary Muslims more than anyone else,"

    not even 24hrs and they pushing the usual nonsense.

    What's nonsense about it?
    That slightly reminds me of an imaginary headline by, I think, Mark Steyn - "Muslims fear backlash of next Wednesday's bombing "
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    MaxPB said:

    ashley said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FFS....BBC already at it,

    "the potential backlash, including support for far right parties and groups, may well hurt ordinary Muslims more than anyone else,"

    not even 24hrs and they pushing the usual nonsense.

    What's nonsense about it?
    Maybe ordinary Muslims need to be out marching against these idiots and properly disowning them instead of just standing around looking at the floor and "deploring violence".
    Tonight, in France, they are.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    At least one German newspaper has the principle to stand up for free speech:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xq3MUCAAA7ulV.jpg:large

    How about our own pathetic press?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,537
    Casino_Royale said:

    Paul_Mid_Beds said:

    What timing for Cameron to cave in over the EU migrant cap.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/07/uk-migration-cap-cameron-merkel_n_6428840.html

    Only this morning, in a comment in the first of his two subtle little apparent dig at UKIP threads today OGH opined in a response to the comment that the UKIP vote share in last nights Yougov poll might be because UKIP have not been on the TV for a while "I think that is right. Insurgent parties need to be getting media attention which UKIP haven't had for some time. Even Farage's promise to go "on the wagon" in January has hardly been noticed.

    Osborne also spiked May's proposal today to cut net migration by requiring foreign students to leave the UK after completing their university studies, and reapply for a new work visa subsequently, according to the Evening Standard tonight.

    The Evening Standard editorial and all its columnists were lauding this and praising Osborne for doing so.
    Amazingly, some people think he's a future Conservative leader. Even Oliver Letwin is more politically astute than George Osborne.

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Socrates said:

    The police officer videoed being shot in the head was a Muslim

    An unarmed patrol officer on a bike.
    What happened to the two police who were supposed to be guarding the building? Surely they would have been armed to some extent.
    I guess. One of them was killed.
  • BlueberryBlueberry Posts: 408
    MaxPB said:

    ashley said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    FFS....BBC already at it,

    "the potential backlash, including support for far right parties and groups, may well hurt ordinary Muslims more than anyone else,"

    not even 24hrs and they pushing the usual nonsense.

    What's nonsense about it?
    Maybe ordinary Muslims need to be out marching against these idiots and properly disowning them instead of just standing around looking at the floor and "deploring violence".
    The problem is that so-called ordinary or mainstream Muslims tend to hold views that are are at odds with mainstream Western views: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,584
    Paul_Mid_Beds said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I predict some kipper willy waving in response to this thread....

    I fear (and I know this is not what you are referring to so forgive me for hijacking your comment) that some of the less sensible voices in UKIP might see the events of today as a way to shore up support and increase their anti-muslim message. That could very seriously backfire and I hope that the people in senior positions have more sense than that.
    I'm not aware that UKIP have an "anti-muslim message" to "increase"


    The party may not have but individuals within the party certainly do have. Of course their are such people in all parties but the relative lack of control (which to some extent I like and prefer) exhibited by UKIP combined with the extreme scrutiny they are under means that a few stupid people can cause a huge amount of damage for the party and detract from what should be its core message on the EU.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited January 2015
    Socrates said:

    At least one German newspaper has the principle to stand up for free speech:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xq3MUCAAA7ulV.jpg:large

    How about our own pathetic press?

    Lead by example. Put them up on a website in your own name.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    On thread - I think I might have a punt at Gt Yarmouth for the blues looking across these polls.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,196
    Sean_F said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Paul_Mid_Beds said:

    What timing for Cameron to cave in over the EU migrant cap.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/07/uk-migration-cap-cameron-merkel_n_6428840.html

    Only this morning, in a comment in the first of his two subtle little apparent dig at UKIP threads today OGH opined in a response to the comment that the UKIP vote share in last nights Yougov poll might be because UKIP have not been on the TV for a while "I think that is right. Insurgent parties need to be getting media attention which UKIP haven't had for some time. Even Farage's promise to go "on the wagon" in January has hardly been noticed.

    Osborne also spiked May's proposal today to cut net migration by requiring foreign students to leave the UK after completing their university studies, and reapply for a new work visa subsequently, according to the Evening Standard tonight.

    The Evening Standard editorial and all its columnists were lauding this and praising Osborne for doing so.
    Amazingly, some people think he's a future Conservative leader. Even Oliver Letwin is more politically astute than George Osborne.

    I think Osborne has some tactical skill, and can master an effective short-term ambush, but he's far from being the strategic political genius some make him out to be.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    UKIP are due to select in Islington South & Finsbury tomorrow.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Guardian reports that police spokesman states the suspects have been arrested...
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Paul_Mid_Beds said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I predict some kipper willy waving in response to this thread....

    I fear (and I know this is not what you are referring to so forgive me for hijacking your comment) that some of the less sensible voices in UKIP might see the events of today as a way to shore up support and increase their anti-muslim message. That could very seriously backfire and I hope that the people in senior positions have more sense than that.
    I'm not aware that UKIP have an "anti-muslim message" to "increase"


    The party may not have but individuals within the party certainly do have. Of course their are such people in all parties but the relative lack of control (which to some extent I like and prefer) exhibited by UKIP combined with the extreme scrutiny they are under means that a few stupid people can cause a huge amount of damage for the party and detract from what should be its core message on the EU.
    To be honest I don't necessarily think that if a UKIP candidate (or any other party) says something outrageous in the next few days it will do him/her any harm, which is seriously depressing
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,196
    Socrates said:

    At least one German newspaper has the principle to stand up for free speech:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xq3MUCAAA7ulV.jpg:large

    How about our own pathetic press?

    Not just the press. Have you seen the vapid innanities Cameron has been uttering today? I would post his facebook/Twitter updates, but can't work out how to on iPhone.

    Lots of 'absolutely essential', 'absolutely clear' and assertions on the need to be 'very clear', without saying anything in particular, other than tired cliches.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,376
    Nothing about arrests on the MSM.

  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    Sean_F said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Paul_Mid_Beds said:

    What timing for Cameron to cave in over the EU migrant cap.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/07/uk-migration-cap-cameron-merkel_n_6428840.html

    Only this morning, in a comment in the first of his two subtle little apparent dig at UKIP threads today OGH opined in a response to the comment that the UKIP vote share in last nights Yougov poll might be because UKIP have not been on the TV for a while "I think that is right. Insurgent parties need to be getting media attention which UKIP haven't had for some time. Even Farage's promise to go "on the wagon" in January has hardly been noticed.

    Osborne also spiked May's proposal today to cut net migration by requiring foreign students to leave the UK after completing their university studies, and reapply for a new work visa subsequently, according to the Evening Standard tonight.

    The Evening Standard editorial and all its columnists were lauding this and praising Osborne for doing so.
    Amazingly, some people think he's a future Conservative leader. Even Oliver Letwin is more politically astute than George Osborne.

    true.
  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    Sky News reporting the suspects as being the ones in the links downthread.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    TheWatcher said:

    Socrates said:

    At least one German newspaper has the principle to stand up for free speech:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xq3MUCAAA7ulV.jpg:large

    How about our own pathetic press?

    Lead by example. Put them up on a website in your own name.
    Unfortunately, my terms of employment restrict me from publishing political views under my own name.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    AndyJS said:

    UKIP are due to select in Islington South & Finsbury tomorrow.

    Is that our man?
  • Fat_SteveFat_Steve Posts: 361
    Casino_Royale said:

    Socrates said:

    At least one German newspaper has the principle to stand up for free speech:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xq3MUCAAA7ulV.jpg:large

    How about our own pathetic press?

    Not just the press. Have you seen the vapid innanities Cameron has been uttering today? I would post his facebook/Twitter updates, but can't work out how to on iPhone.

    Lots of 'absolutely essential', 'absolutely clear' and assertions on the need to be 'very clear', without saying anything in particular, other than tired cliches.
    I've just looked - it doesn't look too bad to me. At least he hasn't spouted off, yet, about what "real Islam" is. Not this time.
  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    Casino_Royale said:

    Socrates said:

    At least one German newspaper has the principle to stand up for free speech:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xq3MUCAAA7ulV.jpg:large

    How about our own pathetic press?

    Not just the press. Have you seen the vapid innanities Cameron has been uttering today? I would post his facebook/Twitter updates, but can't work out how to on iPhone.

    Lots of 'absolutely essential', 'absolutely clear' and assertions on the need to be 'very clear', without saying anything in particular, other than tired cliches.
    What do you want them to say? Just start spouting random anti muslim shite? Burn the Koran on the steps of Number 10?

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Socrates said:

    TheWatcher said:

    Socrates said:

    At least one German newspaper has the principle to stand up for free speech:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xq3MUCAAA7ulV.jpg:large

    How about our own pathetic press?

    Lead by example. Put them up on a website in your own name.
    Unfortunately, my terms of employment restrict me from publishing political views under my own name.
    Disappointing that any job stipulates such a thing.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,376
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    AndyJS said:

    UKIP are due to select in Islington South & Finsbury tomorrow.

    Is that our man?
    He's not standing apparently.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited January 2015
    DavidL said:

    Nothing about arrests on the MSM.

    The Guardian's Kim Willsher is quoted as the source...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Telegraph: Tomorrow's Matt cartoon http://t.co/szamuAE0Ps #CharlieHebdo http://t.co/xgXACgXzLB
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Whilst islamic fascism was killing people in Paris,good old US imperialist fascism was killing wedding guests in Yemen.Where is the Marf cartoon?
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/yemen-bomb-blast-kills-37-4937751
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,402
    volcanopete said:

    Whilst islamic fascism was killing people in Paris,good old US imperialist fascism was killing wedding guests in Yemen.Where is the Marf cartoon?
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/yemen-bomb-blast-kills-37-4937751

    Why are you blaming 'US imperialist fascism' when those attacks are believed to be by an Al-Qaeda offshoot in Yemen?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    volcanopete said:

    Whilst islamic fascism was killing people in Paris,good old US imperialist fascism was killing wedding guests in Yemen.Where is the Marf cartoon?
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/yemen-bomb-blast-kills-37-4937751

    I can't find the bit where the U.S. is mentioned, can you highlight it please.
  • Fat_SteveFat_Steve Posts: 361
    volcanopete said:

    Whilst islamic fascism was killing people in Paris,good old US imperialist fascism was killing wedding guests in Yemen.Where is the Marf cartoon?
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/yemen-bomb-blast-kills-37-4937751

    You may dislike US foreign policy. Perhaps you're right to. But you don't know what fascist means, do you?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I see that the Telegraph and the Guardian have strikingly similar headlines. They're both right too.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,196
    TwistedFireStopper said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Socrates said:

    At least one German newspaper has the principle to stand up for free speech:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xq3MUCAAA7ulV.jpg:large

    How about our own pathetic press?

    Not just the press. Have you seen the vapid innanities Cameron has been uttering today? I would post his facebook/Twitter updates, but can't work out how to on iPhone.

    Lots of 'absolutely essential', 'absolutely clear' and assertions on the need to be 'very clear', without saying anything in particular, other than tired cliches.
    What do you want them to say? Just start spouting random anti muslim shite? Burn the Koran on the steps of Number 10?

    What a stupid post.
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    Good job Marf and other cartoonists don't rely on volcanopete as their news source.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,196
    AndyJS said:

    Socrates said:

    TheWatcher said:

    Socrates said:

    At least one German newspaper has the principle to stand up for free speech:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xq3MUCAAA7ulV.jpg:large

    How about our own pathetic press?

    Lead by example. Put them up on a website in your own name.
    Unfortunately, my terms of employment restrict me from publishing political views under my own name.
    Disappointing that any job stipulates such a thing.
    Plenty of jobs have a de facto stipulation, even if not de jure within the contract. "You are a representative of the company brand" etc.
  • hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 698
    My partner and her sons are Iranian. She loves the country but fled many years ago from the religion takeover. None of them ever visit mosques. Today her 12 year old son told her he was embarrassed to be born muslim. My partner is more hard line than any westerner and believes that we should be closing down mosques. In her view there is no such thing as a moderate muslim. Is it time to listen to people such as her who have seen the impact of the muslim faith destroying her country.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,338
    edited January 2015
    I was surprised that Hollande arrived at the scene so quickly, particularly as the assassins were still at large.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,606
    On Topic

    UKIP are best price 8/13 in Thurrock
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Matt rising to the occasion, as always #JeSuisCharlie pic.twitter.com/UQoL37fqJ0

    — Niklas Manhart (@NManhart) January 7, 2015
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,376
    dr_spyn said:

    I was surprised that Hollande arrived at the scene so quickly, particularly as the assassins were still at large.

    I thought he spoke well. A very natural mixture of shock, horror and determination. He looked as Presidential as I have seen him.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited January 2015
    Your 3 named attackers:

    1. One of the two brothers definitely a criminal record related to terrorism when jailed in France as part of a breakup of a terror cell.

    2. There is a strong suggestion both brothers were in Syria with a return date July/August this year.

    One comment on this 'military training' thing because blokes turn up in combat gear and appear to know what they are doing. This isn't military at work today training, its experience and its a mentality in the head. Some of the calmest looking killers I've come across, though few are actually calm on a kill, are simply just a) experienced and/or b) of a mentality. Military training in the truest sense of the word isn't a pre-requisite at all. This kind of kill operation isn't the kind that military training trains you for either.

    The situation is, not surprisingly, fluid but it appears the French police have some sense of where they are looking. Whether the gunmen, who may well have done the classic two car escape deliberately rather than by circumstance are where the cops are looking is hard to say.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,534
    Again, I am not sure we need to know this on the front of The Times,

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6x73JjCMAAoCWV.jpg
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Stark_Dawning said:

    volcanopete said:

    Whilst islamic fascism was killing people in Paris,good old US imperialist fascism was killing wedding guests in Yemen.Where is the Marf cartoon?
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/yemen-bomb-blast-kills-37-4937751

    Why are you blaming 'US imperialist fascism' when those attacks are believed to be by an Al-Qaeda offshoot in Yemen?
    It must be because volcanopete is a bit of a Jihadist himself, hates America and a willing hater of all things to the right of Marx.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,196
    Fat_Steve said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Socrates said:

    At least one German newspaper has the principle to stand up for free speech:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xq3MUCAAA7ulV.jpg:large

    How about our own pathetic press?

    Not just the press. Have you seen the vapid innanities Cameron has been uttering today? I would post his facebook/Twitter updates, but can't work out how to on iPhone.

    Lots of 'absolutely essential', 'absolutely clear' and assertions on the need to be 'very clear', without saying anything in particular, other than tired cliches.
    I've just looked - it doesn't look too bad to me. At least he hasn't spouted off, yet, about what "real Islam" is. Not this time.
    It's a lot of words without really saying anything. He talks about how there is 'no one answer' but doesn't provides any. He talks about free press, free expression and free speech when his government has done little to further any of that. He hasn't reformed libel, the outcomes from Leveson have arguably weakened press freedom and he hasn't repealed the religious hatred act. There's been no noticeable gesture of solidarity from Cameron with Charlie Hebdo along the lines Socrates suggested. No inspired leadership. No message to the nation.

    Even Boris Johnson could do better. It looks like it's written by a twenty-something No.10 staffer, which is probably is.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Politico Daily ‏@Politico_Daily 1m1 minute ago
    Breaking: French anti-terror raid under way in the northeastern city of Reims, police say (AFP)
  • ashleyashley Posts: 19
    UKIP will just skim enough votes across the board to make sure that David Cameron and George Osborne are out of power. For which the country will thank them, of course.

    After that, they will have no real power, but their influence on grown up politics will be felt via the Tory Party, and the direction in which it is dragged after Cameron is gone.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,196
    DavidL said:

    dr_spyn said:

    I was surprised that Hollande arrived at the scene so quickly, particularly as the assassins were still at large.

    I thought he spoke well. A very natural mixture of shock, horror and determination. He looked as Presidential as I have seen him.
    Really? I thought the opposite. Maybe I expect too much from 'our' leaders.

    Anyway, must get to bed. Early start tomorrow. Goodnight.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,534
    edited January 2015
    Y0kel said:

    Your 3 named attackers:

    1. One of the two brothers definitely a criminal record related to terrorism when jailed in France as part of a breakup of a terror cell.

    2. There is a strong suggestion both brothers were in Syria with a return date July/August this year.

    One comment on this 'military training' thing because blokes turn up in combat gear and appear to know what they are doing. This isn't military at work today training, its experience and its a mentality in the head. Some of the calmest looking killers I've come across, though few are actually calm on a kill, are simply just a) experienced and/or b) of a mentality. Military training in the truest sense of the word isn't a pre-requisite at all. This kind of kill operation isn't the kind that military training trains you for either.

    The situation is, not surprisingly, fluid but it appears the French police have some sense of where they are looking. Whether the gunmen, who may well have done the classic two car escape deliberately rather than by circumstance are where the cops are looking is hard to say.

    The Guardian makes some pertinent observations about their "military training".

    1) They first went to the wrong address.
    2) They couldn't get in on their own to the building, they had to threaten somebody to enter the code.
    3) Apparently they went up the wrong stairs.
    4) They didn't know what their targets looked like, they had to ask.
    5) The authorities already know who they are, so they must have messed up somewhere.

    All of these I doubt highly skilled and highly trained military personnel would fail to plan for.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Bit of a busy day (BTW I do not think that there was a Trust in the country that met the 95% 4 hour target for Emergencies last week, from the figures that I saw today).

    Is Thanet South the only one with an up to date poll? It would be very interesting if Farage was left high and dry

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    UKIP ‏@UKIP 9h9 hours ago
    Statement on Paris shooting from UKIP Communities spokesman @AmjadBashirMEP http://www.ukip.org/statement_on_paris_shooting

    http://www.ukip.org/statement_on_paris_shooting
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,706
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Again, I am not sure we need to know this on the front of The Times,

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6x73JjCMAAoCWV.jpg

    I think many people need to see the horror rather than have a sanitised and cleansed version. If the nasty bits are always hidden they are not understood in the same way.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    ashley said:

    UKIP will just skim enough votes across the board to make sure that David Cameron and George Osborne are out of power. For which the country will thank them, of course.

    After that, they will have no real power, but their influence on grown up politics will be felt via the Tory Party, and the direction in which it is dragged after Cameron is gone.

    The country won't be thanking anyone, as it experiences harder, and deeper cuts under a Labour government.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 2m2 minutes ago
    National Poll (YouGov) 06 - 07 Jan:
    LAB - 33% (-)
    CON - 32% (-1)
    UKIP - 15% (+2)
    GRN - 7% (-1)
    LDEM - 7% (-)

    UKIP on the rise again!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,757
    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by one: CON 32%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,338
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Again, I am not sure we need to know this on the front of The Times,

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6x73JjCMAAoCWV.jpg

    Mirror, Star & Times with similar last moment photo.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,338
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by one: CON 32%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    Was that before the 24 hours of NHS A & E crisis headlines...

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,534
    edited January 2015
    philiph said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Again, I am not sure we need to know this on the front of The Times,

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6x73JjCMAAoCWV.jpg

    I think many people need to see the horror rather than have a sanitised and cleansed version. If the nasty bits are always hidden they are not understood in the same way.
    IMO, I am not sure I agree that quoting the last words of a police officer helps. If you fail to be repulsed and feel a sense of horror by some blokes whose only weapon is their pencil being killed in cold blood, not sure seeing that image and the unnecessary quote will change that.

    If anything the media showing up all the mobile footage on a loop could be argued it desensitises people to this.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,177
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Again, I am not sure we need to know this on the front of The Times,

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6x73JjCMAAoCWV.jpg

    I don't see why not. It's what happened. It illustrates the brutality of those concerned. Do you believe in self-censorship?

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,757
    dr_spyn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by one: CON 32%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    Was that before the 24 hours of NHS A & E crisis headlines...

    Would have straddled it.

    Fieldwork would have started around 4pm yesterday and ended today around 3pm
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,534
    dr_spyn said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Again, I am not sure we need to know this on the front of The Times,

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6x73JjCMAAoCWV.jpg

    Mirror, Star & Times with similar last moment photo.
    It was the quote of his last words I was specifically referring to.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Y0kel said:

    Your 3 named attackers:

    1. One of the two brothers definitely a criminal record related to terrorism when jailed in France as part of a breakup of a terror cell.

    2. There is a strong suggestion both brothers were in Syria with a return date July/August this year.

    One comment on this 'military training' thing because blokes turn up in combat gear and appear to know what they are doing. This isn't military at work today training, its experience and its a mentality in the head. Some of the calmest looking killers I've come across, though few are actually calm on a kill, are simply just a) experienced and/or b) of a mentality. Military training in the truest sense of the word isn't a pre-requisite at all. This kind of kill operation isn't the kind that military training trains you for either.

    The situation is, not surprisingly, fluid but it appears the French police have some sense of where they are looking. Whether the gunmen, who may well have done the classic two car escape deliberately rather than by circumstance are where the cops are looking is hard to say.

    The Guardian makes some pertinent observations about their "military training".

    1) They first went to the wrong address.
    2) They couldn't get in on their own to the building, they had to threaten somebody to enter the code.
    3) Apparently they went up the wrong stairs.
    4) They didn't know what their targets looked like, they had to ask.
    5) The authorities already know who they are, so they must have messed up somewhere.

    All of these I doubt highly skilled and highly trained military personnel would fail to plan for.
    Actually, I would. Particularly going to the wrong place. Plenty of 'special forces' operations in the last 30 years with genuinely well trained and apparently prepped lads that had things like door entry issues and wrong addresses occur.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,177
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by one: CON 32%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    Oh well, back to their usual 15% or so with YouGov. So much for the thread header.

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,810
    dr_spyn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by one: CON 32%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 15%, GRN 7%

    Was that before the 24 hours of NHS A & E crisis headlines...

    Mainly after - I think the poll is approx 5pm yesterday to 5pm today.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,534
    edited January 2015
    Y0kel said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Y0kel said:

    Your 3 named attackers:

    1. One of the two brothers definitely a criminal record related to terrorism when jailed in France as part of a breakup of a terror cell.

    2. There is a strong suggestion both brothers were in Syria with a return date July/August this year.

    One comment on this 'military training' thing because blokes turn up in combat gear and appear to know what they are doing. This isn't military at work today training, its experience and its a mentality in the head. Some of the calmest looking killers I've come across, though few are actually calm on a kill, are simply just a) experienced and/or b) of a mentality. Military training in the truest sense of the word isn't a pre-requisite at all. This kind of kill operation isn't the kind that military training trains you for either.

    The situation is, not surprisingly, fluid but it appears the French police have some sense of where they are looking. Whether the gunmen, who may well have done the classic two car escape deliberately rather than by circumstance are where the cops are looking is hard to say.

    The Guardian makes some pertinent observations about their "military training".

    1) They first went to the wrong address.
    2) They couldn't get in on their own to the building, they had to threaten somebody to enter the code.
    3) Apparently they went up the wrong stairs.
    4) They didn't know what their targets looked like, they had to ask.
    5) The authorities already know who they are, so they must have messed up somewhere.

    All of these I doubt highly skilled and highly trained military personnel would fail to plan for.
    Actually, I would. Particularly going to the wrong place. Plenty of 'special forces' operations in the last 30 years with genuinely well trained and apparently prepped lads that had things like door entry issues and wrong addresses occur.
    All of the above in a single mission?

    The not knowing the faces of the staff is surely a huge pointer. We aren't talking about unknown and rarely seem individuals who have been hiding in caves for 10 years, we are talking about very high profile cartoonists who regularly appeared on national tv shows etc.

    Also, again in a European city looking for an address, these days there is this thing called google maps....
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    RT @DWFitzsimmons: #JeSuisCharlie I am Charlie. pic.twitter.com/YAaXAk7xhC

    — Ship of Fools ن (@shipoffoolscom) January 7, 2015
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,208
    AndyJS said:

    UKIP are due to select in Islington South & Finsbury tomorrow.

    Not one of their target seats, I would imagine.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,757
    edited January 2015
    FPT - Re MikeL

    I'm on at 100/1 on Lab Most Votes, Con Most Seats.

    Edit - Is at 20/1 now
This discussion has been closed.

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