Options
How’s VAT? – politicalbetting.com
How’s VAT? – politicalbetting.com
So we move into the New Year with a blazing row about some fool of a Cabinet Minister shooting her mouth off over an educational policy they don’t understand and are dogmatically devoted to.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
"Cricketers should stand up to Taliban’s gender apartheid"
The article may be of interest to @TheScreamingEagles and @Cyclefree
Now I must read it.
I blame the state of education.
Business rates are not yet being introduced for schools that are not businesses, that will come later this year or early next year.
There is already VAT on fuel, but at a special rate. My reference to loopholes on that was about courts making 'hardship orders' if people are in arrears and can't pay.
Regardless of your thoughts on the VAT status of private education (and I don't feel particularly strongly either way, in the abstract), the policy is quite evidently not designed to solve a problem, or to genuinely improve education during this Parliament.
Rather, it's quite obviously a piece of political signalling, to keep a particular set of supporters happy.
That's hardly unusual in recent years, and certainly not unique to the UK. Politicians on both sides of the political spectrum are far less interested in practical solutions to our various problems - if indeed they are even capable of recognising them at all - than they are in drawing ideological lines.
Little wonder that faith in democracy is waning.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/31/labours-private-school-tax-plan-strongly-backed-by-public-poll-shows
It’s probably going to end up costing the government money, and result in disruptions to the education of tens of thousands of children, many of whom are already in the state sector, as class sizes get bigger and competition for the good state schools increases.
It was high-quality plant based meat substitute for Starmer's maquis in the election. He needed a motivated base to pack meetings, thrown leaflets in bins and post shit about Big Rish on their socials. When you view it in the actual context it was conceived, the policy was a success.
The fact that it makes the Vanorama National League strata of the bourgeoisie dickhurt is just a bonus.
Only an idiot gets involved with Asian betting markets, we are talking shoe size levels of IQ here.
The fund had been set up in 2017 to bet on big football leagues by placing wagers with Asian bookmakers, which are lightly regulated but accept larger bets than European companies. It delivered average returns of just over 8 per cent, sources said, and up to 11 per cent in a strong season by betting on match results and the number of goals.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/alistair-campbell-son-bankruptcy-n0t0v8drh
CNN made the mistake of inviting a nice lady comedian onto their live New Year’s Eve show at 10pm to tell some jokes about 2024. It wasn’t quite what they thought it was going to be, and she’s probably not going to get invited back next year!
The faces of the hosts, who are famous for being drunk on the show, as she spends five minutes going after them, CNN, the election, and giving a very alternative take on the news events of the year, were a joy to watch!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IL-p-fKS08
She probably sold a few more tickets for her tour next year though, so well done Whitney!
As another example, there's the disruption caused by the latin funding being cut midway through a course/year.
Starmer does not care for kids' education. Except his own children's, of course. They must get a good education.
What a shit he is.
And consequentially it would seem a surprising number of people are now quite open to the idea of voting Reform (ie people who did not do so in 2024), despite them currently being a pretty nebulous proposition to put it lightly.
While it is tempting to think this means a hopelessly hung parliament in 2029, 4.5 years is a long time. And the UK system has a knack of ironing out the wrinkles and delivering clean outcomes. Some mix of laying the Labour Party and laying Badenoch as next PM feels the right balance right now.
And also, we discussed it on pb last year.
A couple of things: first, it took years to fail so what changed? Second, non-paying bookies should have been priced in. Third, it has been suggested that these bookies have become, just like their UK-licensed counterparts, reluctant to accommodate anyone who might have sat next to someone who once had a clue. Fourth, that the investors were mainly experienced racing and/or betting figures and not recent war widows. ETA fifth, the story so far does not really add up so has something naughty been going on.
The risk is that whatever happened, it will be used to justify further restrictions on genuine and informed punters like the pb massive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwBO8nrzCt8
But Labour implementing a manifesto commitment supported by the vast majority of Britons is not something I will get upset about.
It seems to have risen substantially in Argentina over the last year.
I wonder why ...?
A number of 'schemes' have followed that pattern over the years
I wonder if there’s another large country in that part of the world planning something similar in 2025?
But as I pointed out and @Dura_Ace has demonstrated, that isn’t the point of this policy, and in those terms and therefore presumably your eyes it has been a success, which I noted as well.
In March, we find out whether our son is going to his first choice school, a few minutes' walk away from our house. The other two options we put down are further away, and will involve a drive or bus. But some kids from our village are being sent to a failing school in a town a fair way away. If he gets placed there, and appeals fail, then we would have zero problem in squeezing our finances to send him to a private school.
And you know what? I'd support any other parent who chose to do the same.
Just because something has been promised by a dogmatist doesn’t make it good policy.
It may be Millei’s analysis is right and his remedies will work. But then, lots of people thought (and still think, for that matter) the same of Chavez or Netanyahu or Putin.
To be even more cynical, those transferring to state schools for their final year or two may benefit from university (and work) admission schemes aimed at helping disadvantaged students (and Toby Young springs to mind).
Business rates on private schools will also reduce the number of scholarships and bursaries they can provide also making them more exclusive
Discrimination on means of delivery is banned under EU VAT rules.
There was a landslip on a Lake District lane used as a route for active travel and tourism, where the Water Company United Utilities had a duty to maintain under a Victorian Act which let them build the dam. They closed it for years, and then the County Council proposed permanent closure.
The Council's complacent claim was that a "suitable alternative" for local people and horses / walkers / wheelers / cyclists was several miles a route on the A591 road past Thirlmere, identified in national newspapers as one of the 'top UK driving roads', i.e., a route on a public road for hoons and morons in Audis and BMWs etc who want to go racing. And also of course the normal dozy average drivers at the wheel who are functionally asleep (at least who aren't on phones, drink or drugs). It already has significant numbers of KSIs.
It's a form of regulatory capture, rather than the public body defending the interests of the public. And they only ever back down when there is a vociferous local campaign willing to go as far as Judicial Review, and not all areas have groups able to mount these multiple times.
https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-uk-slams-council-assertion-busy-road-safe-305017
And since our Police Services have not recovered from their organisational disembowelling by David Cameron and Theresa May, especially traffic police who were also cut by the previous Labour administration, suitable enforcement would never be applied.
I think the problems may arise in the next 2-3 years as those who are currently in private schools look at the next stage.
One reason why this may be a foolish policy is that’s just in time for the next election…
Equally, with some schools losing even 2% of fee payers may be a very serious matter for them in terms of survival, particularly with fuel bills as they are.
We just don’t know. I’d be less annoyed with Phillipson’s posturing if she was more honest about that.
Milei shows what can be done by a brave, economically literate person with the right instincts. I think he's the most outstanding politician in the democratic world since about November 1990. He's also lucky in a way because the previous regime was so obviously an utter catastrophe. And he's also not personally corrupt, which is vanishingly rare in Latin American politics.
Does he get everything right? Of course not, because nobody does. In particular, he should have swept away exchange controls much earlier.
But for the first time in about thirty years I'm optimistic about Argentina, and there's plenty for us to learn from.
Buena suerte.
Most private schools are not what the general public think of as being charities. Admission is mostly dependent on ability to pay.
They would be charities in the normal sense if their admission policies were completely outwith ability to pay.
People on tiny incomes pay VAT on boiler repairs and other essentials. It is hard to justify the anomaly - the one which we are told isn't an exemption.
The putative numbers leaving the private system to go to the state is tiny. I have seen the figure of 37,000. There are 10,000,000 school pupils. It is not more than normal annual fluctuation.
Personally I am neutral on this. I doubt very much if it will make much difference (Like the IHT changes).
Is that correct, I wonder?
I enjoyed it immensely. Very well said.
Rattled
Lots of private schools closing would be excellent for business.
Your determination to become Roger's understudy, with a heavy seasoning of Scott's bitterness over Brexit, only damages what little credibility you have still further.
You're one of the most laughable commentators on here, and increasingly unpleasant.
The big figure everyone should be pondering is demographic decline among our school age population. But I’ve seen little evidence that anyone in the government is (believe me, schools have seen it and it’s one source of nerves).
Good riddance!
[runs and hides]
https://x.com/endwokeness/status/1874569094412095579
More broadly, the problem for Labour is that they could end up alienating all parents, both in the state sector and the private sector.
It would also lead to everyone carrying reinforced umbrellas to avoid the large amount of pigshit falling from the newly airborne pigs.
If it was the mayor saying it then fine, but it’s not what one would expect from the FBI.
You never, ever, bet a full Kelly.
- At sixth form, parents send their privately educated child to a good state school.
- This is backed by full time tutors for all 4 subjects.
- This is cheaper and allows the children to claim to be state educated at university entry
- The state schools like this. They get a bunch of students who are certain to get high marks, are self sufficient, require little teaching etc.
The cherry on top is that a couple of the parents, who I know, are getting joint tuition for their children for shared subjects. They use one of the dad's "garden office" as the classroom - tuition is all remote. Multiple children being taught by the same tutor.....
All the tutors are individuals, working via aggregation sites. I presume none them pay VAT. Or tax, probably.
Or take the shooting of President-elect Trump. That might have been ordered by a terrorist group but was not aimed at causing mass terror. If so, that would still be a terrorist attack, though, surely?
The amount of crying over this policy is hilarious. Everyone should feel the pain.
supporting parental and pupil choice
"...private schools not buying business rates was ‘a luxury’ .."
A similar policy on terrorism was adopted by various extreme right groups in Western countries, long ago.
https://kinghenrys.co.uk/about-henrys/sports-centre/#toggle-id-2
Fees have gone up colossally above inflation (And wages) since then, I live in a different area now.
They were in financial difficulty a few years back, considering a full merger (They are linked) with Bablake (yuck !) but that got canned after massive opposition from alumni and I assume parents with their wallets. No idea how they're doing the whole VAT thing.
The answer is obviously not.
However it is simply a wider issue of Labour taxing the private sector more to give to the public sector, not just private schools and their users but farm owners and private business owners too
My problem with this policy is it does the opposite of its intention as it entrenches the wealthy in the private sector as they can afford to pay the vat, but as has been said many private schools are not Etons and contribute to their local community in many ways including opening their playing fields and swimming pools to the public and of course providing bursaries
These smaller local schools are struggling anyway, and this policy will see some close and teacher redundancies
The fact it is supported by the left and the public indicates they cannot differentiate between the 'Etons' of this world which they dislike with a passion, and many private schools providing a service to the community and average income parents making sacrifices for their children
The idea private schools have polo fields and Olymic size swimming pools is a wholly ridiculous description of many of these schools
I was surprised at @NickPalmer response to @Ydoethur who writes as someone with in depth knowledge of the sector and not political dogma
I doubt the policy will be a net contributor to the treasury, but it will be interesting to see if the conservatives and or reform include its reinstatement in their 2029 manifestos
Anyway thanks to @Ydoethur for your thread header
US inflation is under 3%, not 200%.
Or are you taking about Russia ?
https://feweek.co.uk/no-plans-to-exempt-colleges-from-vat-says-treasury-secretary/
That was under the last government, and I don't see it changing under this one.
I think this tax change is more about social engineering. I don't really approve.
I am no longer involved in schools at all, so I am out of date. In the olden days closures were matters which government left to councils and councils left to local schools/communities to sort by trial by combat. It was a classic area for blame shifting.
In these enlightened times of academies, free schools, diminished local authorities and whatever, how are closures sorted?
In terms of private education as a whole, I find it's where my principles collide. As a liberal I believe anyone should have the right to educate their children privately if they so wish. At the same time I don't believe it is fair for the wealthiest to entrench advantage on their children, in comparison to bright children from disadvantaged backgrounds. The only solution I can see is to render private education obsolete by improving state education to the same level. Unfortunately that would require an equivalent level of spending per pupil. More probably; if it is worth spending around £30k p.a. on a bright upper-middle class child at (say) Tonbridge, then a disadvantaged Special Needs child must need double that.
And the comments on this board show how skewed we are to the very wealthiest end of the spectrum. I earn within the top 5% of incomes and I would have needed to double my salary to be able to educate my children privately. Ironically now it's too late I could probably afford to send one of them somewhere now but they are in their 20s!
It is valid politics to discuss whether the state should limit the ability for the rich to give their kids a leg up simply by spending money. This is of course impossible but if you want a meritocracy…
Winning accounts are frequently closed by the underlying bookie but the brokers can generally source new accounts as quickly as the old ones are closed down. Available stakes declined massively about 5-10 years ago though.