politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » In the super-marginals main party GOTV operations will giv
Comments
-
Sorry to hear that. I have been self employed for years now but have never felt tempted by income protection insurance. They have a terrible reputation for not paying and I have sued them and obtained payment several times for clients. The last thing you need when things are going awry is another fight.Theuniondivvie said:
Same to you, and thanks for asking re. work.Alanbrooke said:
divvie a happy new year to you.Theuniondivvie said:
I agree, particularly the early morning knockers-up. I shimmied out of that on referendum day 'cos I thought it was counter productive.Steven_Whaley said:Speaking as someone who always votes, but always votes in the evening due to work, I have to say that being contacted by a GOTV operation on polling day would hugely irritate me. Not enough to change my vote, of course, but enough for me to give the GOTVer a piece of my mind.
I was just wondering how the work side is going for you ?
Unfortunately I got the black spot in November. As an added bonus, the insurance company to whom I've been paying income protection insurance for the last 4 years has weaselled out of payment, so not a good year all in all
I'll have to get my ass into job-hunting gear now Christmas is over.
Hope 2015 is more successful for you.0 -
Sales of tin foil to soar.
Prince Andrew named in US lawsuit over underage sex allegations
In case related to banker Jeffrey Epstein, woman alleges in court filing that she was forced to have repeated ‘sexual relations’ with duke
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/02/prince-andrew-named-us-lawsuit-underage-sex-allegations
0 -
Let's wait and see what his Mum says about that first!SandyRentool said:
But which party will receive an endorsement from "The Sunil on Sunday"? My hunch is UKIP.SouthamObserver said:
The Guardian will unenthusiastically support Labour but will also back voting LD in seats where they they have the incumbent or main challenger. They may back the Greens in Hove.Artist said:The publications which only tentatively backed Cameron in 2010 are in a difficult place as the Conservatives standing has gone down since then but not enough for them to switch to Labour. Getting the FT and Economist would be a boost for Labour but they'd need to set out in far more detail what they are going to do first.
I think the Guardian will support the Green Party but urge tactical voting for Labour.
The Evening Standard will claim to be neutral but will slant their output towards the Conservatives.
The Economist and the FT will lean more Tory than Labour in terms of endorsement. But there will be strong caveats. I agree with you on the Standard.
0 -
Indeed. However it really is depressing to see someone as well informed as rcs repeat the canard that Mrs Thatcher turned around the British economy. Her economic record was at best mediocre and the social cost for some was appalling. rcs makes no mention of the boon from north sea oil or the huge credit and financial bubble that built up. Two things which we can no longer rely on which is why I wouldn't be too optimistic about our economy's future. All the manufacturing lost in the early 80s is now assumed to have been nationalised tat, when in reality much of it would have been perfectly competitive without exorbitant interest rates and the pound becoming a petro-currency.SouthamObserver said:
Spot on. And I am not sure that the management of British businesses ever really progressed.Alistair said:
not forgetting (d) 9.5% of tax revenue coming from oil.rcs1000 said:
It really is no coincidence that it was: (a) the sorting out of the trade unions, (b) the end of bail outs, and (c) a willingness to let foreign businesses in to the UK led to (c) better management of British businesses. This is not about the EU - it's about why our economy turned around in the 1980s and has yet to turn back around.
A perfect example of how history is written by the victors. But they're still wrong.0 -
SouthamObserver said:
On the insurance company, you should not let it lie. There are a few options - miss-selling may be one of them.TheScreamingEagles said:
My friend had a similar issue with an insurance company when he was made redundant, he challenged it and eventually won.
Kick their bloody arses.RobD said:
Good luck finding a new job!
Hope you weren't sacked for being on PB at work
Ishmael_X said:
Definitely unleash the Insurance Ombudsman on their asses. Free, and can be robust.DavidL said:
Sorry to hear that. I have been self employed for years now but have never felt tempted by income protection insurance. They have a terrible reputation for not paying and I have sued them and obtained payment several times for clients. The last thing you need when things are going awry is another fight.
Hope 2015 is more successful for you.
Thanks all. I will chase it up but the small print seems to have me by the proverbials. I took up some part time work last year, partly as a back up if my main job went down the tubes, and as it was less than 14 hours pw I thought it wouldn't affect the main qualifier for the insurance, registering for JSA. It now turns out I need to be in receipt of JSA (which I'm not as I earn too much from my part time work); if I give up my p/t job, my JSA claim would be sanctioned, also disqualifying me for the insurance - classic Catch 22!
By the by, it's been over 20 years since I last entered the Byzantine world of benefits - it's all changed since I were a lad. If I wasn't web/computer literate and didn't have a (small) financial cushion, I'd be toast.0 -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11321608/Conservative-election-poster-politics-is-on-a-road-to-nowhere.html
FFS, what a load of managerialist managed-decline nonsense from the Conservatives, is this really means to be a poster to inspire the electorate to get off their sofas and vote Conservative.
"Carry on down this long road which doesn't appear to be going anywhere, try not to pay any attention to those nice tempting fields at the side which might be a good place to stop and have a picnic and/or vote for someone else"0 -
An interesting read, especially when you dig into the detail way down in the final paragraphs. Allegations around a 17 year old (at the time) seem to have no legal issues in two of the three locations (London (legal age of consent 16) and New York (legal age of consent 17)) and may also not apply at the third, depending on the jurisdiction of Epstein's private Caribbean island.TheScreamingEagles said:Sales of tin foil to soar.
Prince Andrew named in US lawsuit over underage sex allegations
In case related to banker Jeffrey Epstein, woman alleges in court filing that she was forced to have repeated ‘sexual relations’ with duke
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/02/prince-andrew-named-us-lawsuit-underage-sex-allegations
Shortly the Guardian would look down its nose at using sensational stories about Royals to sell newspapers?0 -
Don't let that put you off too much, the ombudsman has some flexibility to disregard technicalities of that kind if he thinks they have no real merit in them.Theuniondivvie said:
Thanks all. I will chase it up but the small print seems to have me by the proverbials. I took up some part time work last year, partly as a back up if my main job went down the tubes, and as it was less than 14 hours pw I thought it wouldn't affect the main qualifier for the insurance, registering for JSA. It now turns out I need to be in receipt of JSA (which I'm not as I earn too much from my part time work); if I give up my p/t job, my JSA claim would be sanctioned, also disqualifying me for the insurance - classic Catch 22!
0 -
I didn't think selling newspapers was what The Guardian was aboutMarqueeMark said:Shortly the Guardian would look down its nose at using sensational stories about Royals to sell newspapers?
0 -
Anyone heard of sunlit uplands??Indigo said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11321608/Conservative-election-poster-politics-is-on-a-road-to-nowhere.html
FFS, what a load of managerialist managed-decline nonsense from the Conservatives, is this really means to be a poster to inspire the electorate to get off their sofas and vote Conservative.
"Carry on down this long road which doesn't appear to be going anywhere, try not to pay any attention to those nice tempting fields at the side which might be a good place to stop and have a picnic and/or vote for someone else"
I thought it was a nice image of what looks like England, and made me a bit nostalgic after having been away for so long!0 -
Sky reports Mutti Merkel is in Britain to visit her favourite nephew David next week...a promising boy but headstrong and easily distracted0
-
Surely the Royals could employ people who are less thick than they are (not a demanding requirement) to point out to them that hanging out with people like Epstein, no matter how innocently, can lead to this kind of result?MarqueeMark said:
An interesting read, especially when you dig into the detail way down in the final paragraphs. Allegations around a 17 year old (at the time) seem to have no legal issues in two of the three locations (London (legal age of consent 16) and New York (legal age of consent 17)) and may also not apply at the third, depending on the jurisdiction of Epstein's private Caribbean island.TheScreamingEagles said:Sales of tin foil to soar.
Prince Andrew named in US lawsuit over underage sex allegations
In case related to banker Jeffrey Epstein, woman alleges in court filing that she was forced to have repeated ‘sexual relations’ with duke
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/02/prince-andrew-named-us-lawsuit-underage-sex-allegations
Shortly the Guardian would look down its nose at using sensational stories about Royals to sell newspapers?
0 -
http://order-order.com/2015/01/02/red-ukip-call-for-higher-unemployment-benefits/
New details on the UKIP 'thrust left'0 -
Just because some over-praise Thatcher is no reason to rubbish her - or more importantly her government.FrankBooth said:
Indeed. However it really is depressing to see someone as well informed as rcs repeat the canard that Mrs Thatcher turned around the British economy. Her economic record was at best mediocre and the social cost for some was appalling. rcs makes no mention of the boon from north sea oil or the huge credit and financial bubble that built up. Two things which we can no longer rely on which is why I wouldn't be too optimistic about our economy's future. All the manufacturing lost in the early 80s is now assumed to have been nationalised tat, when in reality much of it would have been perfectly competitive without exorbitant interest rates and the pound becoming a petro-currency.SouthamObserver said:
Spot on. And I am not sure that the management of British businesses ever really progressed.Alistair said:
not forgetting (d) 9.5% of tax revenue coming from oil.rcs1000 said:
It really is no coincidence that it was: (a) the sorting out of the trade unions, (b) the end of bail outs, and (c) a willingness to let foreign businesses in to the UK led to (c) better management of British businesses. This is not about the EU - it's about why our economy turned around in the 1980s and has yet to turn back around.
A perfect example of how history is written by the victors. But they're still wrong.
The North Sea is still producing oil. Michael Edwards urged us to leave it there it was causing so much of a currency problem.
Industry and trade unions needed reform. Only now for instance has France adressed the gross overmanning of the French car industry whereas Thatchers inheritance was for massive inward investment and efficiency.0 -
@RobD
The poster seems to have engaged a few in the press as well.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/truth-and-the-deficit-my-response-to-torytreasury/
(Other commentators are of course available)0 -
Yeah, Fraser has been banging on about the deficit not actually being halved for quite a while nowSmarmeron said:@RobD
The poster seems to have engaged a few in the press as well.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/truth-and-the-deficit-my-response-to-torytreasury/
(Other commentators are of course available) 0 -
I would love to see UKIP putting up Katie Hopkins in a Glasgow seat. That would make an excellent reality TV show.0
-
The position in the USVI under whose jurisdiction Little Saint James falls appears to be a bit complicated, according to wikipedia:Ishmael_X said:
Surely the Royals could employ people who are less thick than they are (not a demanding requirement) to point out to them that hanging out with people like Epstein, no matter how innocently, can lead to this kind of result?MarqueeMark said:
An interesting read, especially when you dig into the detail way down in the final paragraphs. Allegations around a 17 year old (at the time) seem to have no legal issues in two of the three locations (London (legal age of consent 16) and New York (legal age of consent 17)) and may also not apply at the third, depending on the jurisdiction of Epstein's private Caribbean island.TheScreamingEagles said:Sales of tin foil to soar.
Prince Andrew named in US lawsuit over underage sex allegations
In case related to banker Jeffrey Epstein, woman alleges in court filing that she was forced to have repeated ‘sexual relations’ with duke
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/02/prince-andrew-named-us-lawsuit-underage-sex-allegations
Shortly the Guardian would look down its nose at using sensational stories about Royals to sell newspapers?Paraphrasing Virgin Islands Code: V.I.C. § 1700-1709 Virgin Islands Code and appeals records Francis vs. VI NOTE: "mistake of fact as to the victim's age is not a defense". The age of consent is 18. There is however a close-in-age exemption that allows minors 16 and 17 years old to consent with someone no more than five years older than themselves and minors 13 to 15 years old to consent with one another, but not with anyone 16 or over.
0 -
I have been away for five years and may well be back this year (possibly depending on the election result!) hence my reaction, I thought to hell with that long boring road, I want to sit in that nice grass and have a picnic.RobD said:
Anyone heard of sunlit uplands??Indigo said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11321608/Conservative-election-poster-politics-is-on-a-road-to-nowhere.html
FFS, what a load of managerialist managed-decline nonsense from the Conservatives, is this really means to be a poster to inspire the electorate to get off their sofas and vote Conservative.
"Carry on down this long road which doesn't appear to be going anywhere, try not to pay any attention to those nice tempting fields at the side which might be a good place to stop and have a picnic and/or vote for someone else"
I thought it was a nice image of what looks like England, and made me a bit nostalgic after having been away for so long!
0 -
Interesting to note that their new policy chief is Mr Tim Aker, recently the victim of those dodgy local leaflets using his un-anglicised name and strategically placed pictures of extremists. It a bit odd that he used to be active in the TPA, and now appears to be campaigning for more handouts, and hence more tax.taffys said:http://order-order.com/2015/01/02/red-ukip-call-for-higher-unemployment-benefits/
New details on the UKIP 'thrust left'
0 -
Wow, they should just go the whole way and legislate the half your age plus seven rule.Indigo said:
The position in the USVI under whose jurisdiction Little Saint James falls appears to be a bit complicated, according to wikipedia:Ishmael_X said:
Surely the Royals could employ people who are less thick than they are (not a demanding requirement) to point out to them that hanging out with people like Epstein, no matter how innocently, can lead to this kind of result?MarqueeMark said:
An interesting read, especially when you dig into the detail way down in the final paragraphs. Allegations around a 17 year old (at the time) seem to have no legal issues in two of the three locations (London (legal age of consent 16) and New York (legal age of consent 17)) and may also not apply at the third, depending on the jurisdiction of Epstein's private Caribbean island.TheScreamingEagles said:Sales of tin foil to soar.
Prince Andrew named in US lawsuit over underage sex allegations
In case related to banker Jeffrey Epstein, woman alleges in court filing that she was forced to have repeated ‘sexual relations’ with duke
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/02/prince-andrew-named-us-lawsuit-underage-sex-allegations
Shortly the Guardian would look down its nose at using sensational stories about Royals to sell newspapers?Paraphrasing Virgin Islands Code: V.I.C. § 1700-1709 Virgin Islands Code and appeals records Francis vs. VI NOTE: "mistake of fact as to the victim's age is not a defense". The age of consent is 18. There is however a close-in-age exemption that allows minors 16 and 17 years old to consent with someone no more than five years older than themselves and minors 13 to 15 years old to consent with one another, but not with anyone 16 or over.
0 -
A reference to "treating customers fairly" - as in "Are you sure you can show that you were doing that when selling this to me, should the FCA come calling?" - may also help.Theuniondivvie said:SouthamObserver said:
On the insurance company, you should not let it lie. There are a few options - miss-selling may be one of them.TheScreamingEagles said:
My friend had a similar issue with an insurance company when he was made redundant, he challenged it and eventually won.
Kick their bloody arses.RobD said:
Good luck finding a new job!
Hope you weren't sacked for being on PB at workIshmael_X said:
Definitely unleash the Insurance Ombudsman on their asses. Free, and can be robust.DavidL said:
Sorry to hear that. I have been self employed for years now but have never felt tempted by income protection insurance. They have a terrible reputation for not paying and I have sued them and obtained payment several times for clients. The last thing you need when things are going awry is another fight.
Hope 2015 is more successful for you.
Thanks all. I will chase it up but the small print seems to have me by the proverbials. I took up some part time work last year, partly as a back up if my main job went down the tubes, and as it was less than 14 hours pw I thought it wouldn't affect the main qualifier for the insurance, registering for JSA. It now turns out I need to be in receipt of JSA (which I'm not as I earn too much from my part time work); if I give up my p/t job, my JSA claim would be sanctioned, also disqualifying me for the insurance - classic Catch 22!
By the by, it's been over 20 years since I last entered the Byzantine world of benefits - it's all changed since I were a lad. If I wasn't web/computer literate and didn't have a (small) financial cushion, I'd be toast.
Good luck with the job hunting!
0 -
That may be an apt description of what happened to the deficit planIndigo said:
I have been away for five years and may well be back this year (possibly depending on the election result!) hence my reaction, I thought to hell with that long boring road, I want to sit in that nice grass and have a picnic.RobD said:
Anyone heard of sunlit uplands??Indigo said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11321608/Conservative-election-poster-politics-is-on-a-road-to-nowhere.html
FFS, what a load of managerialist managed-decline nonsense from the Conservatives, is this really means to be a poster to inspire the electorate to get off their sofas and vote Conservative.
"Carry on down this long road which doesn't appear to be going anywhere, try not to pay any attention to those nice tempting fields at the side which might be a good place to stop and have a picnic and/or vote for someone else"
I thought it was a nice image of what looks like England, and made me a bit nostalgic after having been away for so long!
0 -
Precisely! Which is why its a daft poster!RobD said:
That may be an apt description of what happened to the deficit planIndigo said:
I have been away for five years and may well be back this year (possibly depending on the election result!) hence my reaction, I thought to hell with that long boring road, I want to sit in that nice grass and have a picnic.RobD said:
Anyone heard of sunlit uplands??Indigo said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11321608/Conservative-election-poster-politics-is-on-a-road-to-nowhere.html
FFS, what a load of managerialist managed-decline nonsense from the Conservatives, is this really means to be a poster to inspire the electorate to get off their sofas and vote Conservative.
"Carry on down this long road which doesn't appear to be going anywhere, try not to pay any attention to those nice tempting fields at the side which might be a good place to stop and have a picnic and/or vote for someone else"
I thought it was a nice image of what looks like England, and made me a bit nostalgic after having been away for so long!
0 -
I would contest your statement about the road bring dull! If it were a motorway, I'd agree with you.Indigo said:
Precisely! Which is why its a daft poster!RobD said:
That may be an apt description of what happened to the deficit planIndigo said:
I have been away for five years and may well be back this year (possibly depending on the election result!) hence my reaction, I thought to hell with that long boring road, I want to sit in that nice grass and have a picnic.RobD said:
Anyone heard of sunlit uplands??Indigo said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11321608/Conservative-election-poster-politics-is-on-a-road-to-nowhere.html
FFS, what a load of managerialist managed-decline nonsense from the Conservatives, is this really means to be a poster to inspire the electorate to get off their sofas and vote Conservative.
"Carry on down this long road which doesn't appear to be going anywhere, try not to pay any attention to those nice tempting fields at the side which might be a good place to stop and have a picnic and/or vote for someone else"
I thought it was a nice image of what looks like England, and made me a bit nostalgic after having been away for so long!0 -
@Cyclefree
'The British (owned) car industry was killed by British politicians, and British unions, and British management.
Rover - and its predecessor companies - died because they produced worse cars than the Germans, the Americans, and the Japanese.'
This is a fascinating topic. I agree wholeheartedly with your first sentence, but not your second. They may have produced 'worse' cars for the money -particularly in the dark days of the 70's, but of course the reason they failed, is because people didn't buy those cars. It's an important distinction, because it is people's perception of a brand that ultimately dicates buying choice.
Speaking of bad British cars, there's a story my Dad tells about British Leyland, where a man took his car to a mechanic with a persistent rattle in the door, and the mechanic knew what it was immediately -the door was full of litter. The car was made on a Friday and the workers couldn't be bothered to dispose of their rubbish properly before clocking off, so they just dumped it in the door. Happened frequently aparently.0 -
Yes, GOTV is concentrated in areas where turnout is traditionally lower. However, if you have enough volunteers it makes sense to contact everyone - you've nothing better to do (and you aim to cover low-turnout areas more than once). On election day I usually find a dozen or so people who weren't going to vote (including a couple who have just forgotten) but do so after persuasion ("it's very close!"), and another 20 or so who are still wavering and can seemingly be persuaded (let's say only half of those are genuinely changing). That's 20ish for one knocker-up, times maybe 50 knockers-up - 1000 votes, three time the victory margin last time.Steven_Whaley said:
That's a perfectly fair point - and I'm sure that you're correct that it's a minority of voters who get irritated otherwise you obviously wouldn't bother with GOTV at all.NickPalmer said:
Yeah, but the key point is "not enough to change my vote". We all assume we will cheese some voters off by doing it, but most of them see the need for it and those that don't will get over it.
Do you consider the likelihood of a particular voter turning out on their own initiative before you decide whether or not to nudge them into voting? I assume if it's a person that you know will always turn out, because they always have done before, then it's a waste of your time and theirs to GOTV them?
My own personal view (which I'm sure will not find much favour on this site) is that the candidates and their teams should back off entirely on election day. No GOTV calls, no "telling", nothing. They've had over a month in which to get their messages across. Election day should belong to the voters and not to the candidates.
My introduction to politics was helping knock up at age 16 in Hornsey. I was very struck by the glamorous branch secretary and keen to impress her. She gave me a list of people to knock up, saying, "Some of them may have had reminders already, but they've not voted yet." It was 5 pm and all but one were still out. The exception was a huge bloke who flung open the door and said, "I'VE ALREADY BLOODY VOTED AT SEVEN THIS MORNING. I'VE BEEN ASKED TEN TIMES TODAY. THE NEXT MAN TO ASK ME IS GOING TO GET MY FIST ON HIS NOSE."
I went back to glamour boss and reported this. She tossed her hair back contemptuously and roared, "He's a fucking liar! Go back and ask him again!"
That was one romance that never quite took off.
0 -
Looks like Civitas have picked up on the real housing crisis in the country. The party which steps up and sorts out the buy-to-let sector will win the votes of 25-40 year olds across the country. For too long have the baby boomer generation leeched from the incomes of the young though property "investment".0
-
Across the country or just in London & the south east?MaxPB said:Looks like Civitas have picked up on the real housing crisis in the country. The party which steps up and sorts out the buy-to-let sector will win the votes of 25-40 year olds across the country. For too long have the baby boomer generation leeched from the incomes of the young though property "investment".
0 -
All over the country.SandyRentool said:
Across the country or just in London & the south east?MaxPB said:Looks like Civitas have picked up on the real housing crisis in the country. The party which steps up and sorts out the buy-to-let sector will win the votes of 25-40 year olds across the country. For too long have the baby boomer generation leeched from the incomes of the young though property "investment".
0 -
It would be stupid to prosecute. As long as she was not inciting anyone and only being rude. What she does demonstrate is that what she thinks of as clever is crass and she can only generate any discussion by not being simply provocative in a reasonable sense but in a rude and vulgar and simplistic sense. Its pretty pathetic that she thinks she can make a living that way and is allowed to.Cyclefree said:On the K Hopkins issue, the criminal law should not be used to enforce good manners.
It's the mark of a decadent (in the fullest meaning of that word) society that increasing numbers of people think it should.
As such she does not deserve any credence and thus she undermines both her job (any reasonable person would sack her) and her opinion. Her opinion about just one of the benefits of union was valid but totally undetermined by the way it was made.0 -
So when Labour ruin your pensions you should just lie down and die? Only councils and Housing Associations should be allowed to build and rent houses?MaxPB said:Looks like Civitas have picked up on the real housing crisis in the country. The party which steps up and sorts out the buy-to-let sector will win the votes of 25-40 year olds across the country. For too long have the baby boomer generation leeched from the incomes of the young though property "investment".
Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.
0 -
''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.0 -
[edited]
But there is a difference between bad manners and behaviour which is the equivalent of inciting a riot or at least risking a breach of the peace. And there is a difference between bad manners and abuse which really would hurt people who are vulnerable and unwell. That's what worries me. Ad that difference, I presume, is why the Malicious Communications Ast was passed at Westminster.Cyclefree said:On the K Hopkins issue, the criminal law should not be used to enforce good manners.
It's the mark of a decadent (in the fullest meaning of that word) society that increasing numbers of people think it should.
I'd better leave it at that - but it would be interesting to know if Ms Hopkins's tweet had been passed by her employer's lawyer.
0 -
Tottally off topic, but just had lunch in the pub in Frinton. Full. All bar staff seemed Brit and I think I saw one apparently Asian couple; prosperous-looking and of the expected age for the town.
Meal service seemed slow, though.
UKIP? Why? Tory I could believe!0 -
Tories always seem to forget that Thatcherism was about owning one's own home rather than owning everyone else's home as well. Until this collective amnesia is lifted the Tories will struggle to win votes from working age people as they are seen as the party of the establishment who support older landlords in the utterly selfish baby boomer generation.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.0 -
Achieved by forcing social landlords (i.e. local councils) to sell off property way below the market value.taffys said:
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.
Perhaps private-scetor buy to let landlords could be forced to offer such deals to their tenants too?0 -
We should never forget "Fire up the Quatro" and the flying pigs one.. Labour at its best0
-
I think a land value tax on non-primary residences/property would achieve the desired effect. Though a right to buy scheme in the private sector would be hilarious to watch as private landlords see their property bought up at below market value.SandyRentool said:
Achieved by forcing social landlords (i.e. local councils) to sell off property way below the market value.taffys said:
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.
Perhaps private-scetor buy to let landlords could be forced to offer such deals to their tenants too?0 -
Frinton is the most Tory part of the constituency, I canvassed there and it's more Carswell than Ukip that they voted forOldKingCole said:Tottally off topic, but just had lunch in the pub in Frinton. Full. All bar staff seemed Brit and I think I saw one apparently Asian couple; prosperous-looking and of the expected age for the town.
Meal service seemed slow, though.
UKIP? Why? Tory I could believe!0 -
Always the most Tory bit of course. Has been for generations. Wonder what they’ll do at the GE?isam said:
Frinton is the most Tory part of the constituency, I canvassed there and it's more Carswell than Ukip that they voted forOldKingCole said:Tottally off topic, but just had lunch in the pub in Frinton. Full. All bar staff seemed Brit and I think I saw one apparently Asian couple; prosperous-looking and of the expected age for the town.
Meal service seemed slow, though.
UKIP? Why? Tory I could believe!
Yes, I know this has been discussed before. It was just sitting in the pub and looking around me that made me think.
Quite a few charity and empty shops around, too.0 -
Of course there is a difference between being bad mannered and inciting a riot. But too many people ignore that difference. It seems all too often that people don't like what someone is saying (and what someone is saying may well be outrageously insulting and boorish) and then demand that something be done by the police. Whereas the more intelligent response would be to ignore the comment and shun someone who behaves in such an uncivilized manner.Carnyx said:[edited]
But there is a difference between bad manners and behaviour which is the equivalent of inciting a riot or at least risking a breach of the peace. And there is a difference between bad manners and abuse which really would hurt people who are vulnerable and unwell. That's what worries me. Ad that difference, I presume, is why the Malicious Communications Ast was passed at Westminster.Cyclefree said:On the K Hopkins issue, the criminal law should not be used to enforce good manners.
It's the mark of a decadent (in the fullest meaning of that word) society that increasing numbers of people think it should.
I'd better leave it at that - but it would be interesting to know if Ms Hopkins's tweet had been passed by her employer's lawyer.
After all, if someone is making money from being an obnoxious motormouth the best way to stop him/her is to stop listening and reacting. The "motormouth" career would soon grind to a halt.
0 -
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.0 -
Yes, food would be so much cheaper if we didn't have any eastern europeans to pick the veg and do other jobs in the agricultural and food sectors that the indigenous Jeremy Kyle watchers think are beneath them.FalseFlag said:
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.0 -
They will prove popular only if they work. If, as seems likely, rent controls lead to either a collapse in the buy-to-let market or a massive increase in rents, they will not prove popular. Similarly, mansion taxes will prove popular if they are paid by (A) people with mansions and (B) not by anyone who does not think they own a mansion.taffys said:'Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
I have to say, I have rented privately for 13 years, since I was 19, and I haven't had many problems so far (touch wood). I've only had one rent hike in all that time, and that was after three years on the same rent so I could hardly complain. When I felt that a further increase was more than I could afford, I moved (within the same town).
The real problem is, and always has been, a lack of housing - but nobody seems to be making meaningful efforts to sort this out. Perhaps because everyone is scared of admitting that the real problem is that London is an unsustainable city in terms of population, infrastructure and indeed geology and ecology and at come point something very drastic will have to be done to correct it, like moving the entirety of the UK government to Yorkshire.0 -
The huge bloke may have voted at seven that morning. But he probably refused to give the teller his polling number and was thus not crossed off the register.NickPalmer said:
Yes, GOTV is concentrated in areas where turnout is traditionally lower. However, if you have enough volunteers it makes sense to contact everyone - you've nothing better to do (and you aim to cover low-turnout areas more than once). On election day I usually find a dozen or so people who weren't going to vote (including a couple who have just forgotten) but do so after persuasion ("it's very close!"), and another 20 or so who are still wavering and can seemingly be persuaded (let's say only half of those are genuinely changing). That's 20ish for one knocker-up, times maybe 50 knockers-up - 1000 votes, three time the victory margin last time.Steven_Whaley said:
That's a perfectly fair point - and I'm sure that you're correct that it's a minority of voters who get irritated otherwise you obviously wouldn't bother with GOTV at all.NickPalmer said:
Yeah, but the key point is "not enough to change my vote". We all assume we will cheese some voters off by doing it, but most of them see the need for it and those that don't will get over it.
Do you consider the likelihood of a particular voter turning out on their own initiative before you decide whether or not to nudge them into voting? I assume if it's a person that you know will always turn out, because they always have done before, then it's a waste of your time and theirs to GOTV them?
My own personal view (which I'm sure will not find much favour on this site) is that the candidates and their teams should back off entirely on election day. No GOTV calls, no "telling", nothing. They've had over a month in which to get their messages across. Election day should belong to the voters and not to the candidates.
My introduction to politics was helping knock up at age 16 in Hornsey. I was very struck by the glamorous branch secretary and keen to impress her. She gave me a list of people to knock up, saying, "Some of them may have had reminders already, but they've not voted yet." It was 5 pm and all but one were still out. The exception was a huge bloke who flung open the door and said, "I'VE ALREADY BLOODY VOTED AT SEVEN THIS MORNING. I'VE BEEN ASKED TEN TIMES TODAY. THE NEXT MAN TO ASK ME IS GOING TO GET MY FIST ON HIS NOSE."
I went back to glamour boss and reported this. She tossed her hair back contemptuously and roared, "He's a fucking liar! Go back and ask him again!"
That was one romance that never quite took off.0 -
Perhaps private-sector buy to let landlords could be forced to offer such deals to their tenants too?
I don;t know. I think the causes of the great UK house price surge are probably quite complex, and stem from the fact overseas money sees Britain as a very safe haven. Buy to let is not the only factor.
For much of the C 20th the giant economies pouring money (and people) into our housing now were basket cases our young people did not have to compete with. At the same time Britain itself wasn;t doing great.
Perversely the housing market could cheapen up quite dramatically if ed gets in and there's a big flight of capital out of Britain.
0 -
Incidentally, I was particularly puzzled by this remark in the Western Mail's report on the subject:
'It claims that private sector rents now account for 40% of tenants’ incomes'
My rent has always accounted for around 40% of my net income, from the time when I was a student. That's what I expect it to take up. Just as it's roughly what I would expect a mortgage to absorb, although obviously a mortgage will be capital investment rather than income paid out to others.
Why is this a big deal? Or is it that Civitas don't know what they are talking about?
(Link for quote: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/leading-think-tank-calls-tenants-8368062)0 -
right, so one minute you're demanding higher wages through a "living wage" the next you're defending a low wage economy .SandyRentool said:
Yes, food would be so much cheaper if we didn't have any eastern europeans to pick the veg and do other jobs in the agricultural and food sectors that the indigenous Jeremy Kyle watchers think are beneath them.FalseFlag said:
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.
0 -
Actually I have been a long term advocate of farm mechanization. Slave labour means there is no incentive though.SandyRentool said:
Yes, food would be so much cheaper if we didn't have any eastern europeans to pick the veg and do other jobs in the agricultural and food sectors that the indigenous Jeremy Kyle watchers think are beneath them.FalseFlag said:
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.
Of course we used to do strawberries in my Mum's part of the world, lorry loads heading off to market in the summer, not anymore it is too labour intensive to be profitable. Timber and tourism is the prime focus with the locals mostly working in high tech instead. Progress.
0 -
They will prove popular only if they work.
Agreed, but I think many young people might give them a whirl as they see no prospect at all of owning their own home. What have they got to lose?
I think this is the secret of labour's success in London.0 -
They won't work, those are no kind of solutions at all. Labour's lack of intellectual coherence finds them reaching for tried and failed seventies 'solutions'.ydoethur said:
They will prove popular only if they work. If, as seems likely, rent controls lead to either a collapse in the buy-to-let market or a massive increase in rents, they will not prove popular. Similarly, mansion taxes will prove popular if they are paid by (A) people with mansions and (B) not by anyone who does not think they own a mansion.taffys said:'Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
I have to say, I have rented privately for 13 years, since I was 19, and I haven't had many problems so far (touch wood). I've only had one rent hike in all that time, and that was after three years on the same rent so I could hardly complain. When I felt that a further increase was more than I could afford, I moved (within the same town).
The real problem is, and always has been, a lack of housing - but nobody seems to be making meaningful efforts to sort this out. Perhaps because everyone is scared of admitting that the real problem is that London is an unsustainable city in terms of population, infrastructure and indeed geology and ecology and at come point something very drastic will have to be done to correct it, like moving the entirety of the UK government to Yorkshire.
0 -
True, the FDR approach of 'try something' may well be popular. I was just visualising them being initially popular and then causing a massive crisis, a bit like the Poll Tax, which would lead to a colossal backlash.taffys said:They will prove popular only if they work.
Agreed, but I think many young people might give them a whirl as they see no prospect at all of owning their own home. What have they got to lose?
I think this is the secret of labour's success in London.
Hopi Sen actually had a really sensible piece on the 'Mansion Tax' a couple of months ago:
http://hopisen.com/2014/why-im-against-the-mansion-tax/
Definitely worth reading.0 -
Nah it's ethnic cleansing.taffys said:They will prove popular only if they work.
Agreed, but I think many young people might give them a whirl as they see no prospect at all of owning their own home. What have they got to lose?
I think this is the secret of labour's success in London.0 -
And its the tories who have brought in help to buy. It was labour who presided over ruinous 100%+ mortgages and also ruined the banks and brought in the need to restore their balance sheets and thus brought back 20% deposits. Only last October the papers were reporting that lenders price war was good news for borrowers so once again we get a bogus argument.MaxPB said:
Tories always seem to forget that Thatcherism was about owning one's own home rather than owning everyone else's home as well. Until this collective amnesia is lifted the Tories will struggle to win votes from working age people as they are seen as the party of the establishment who support older landlords in the utterly selfish baby boomer generation.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.
And 'baby boomers' & 'leeching' seems pretty conclusive to me.0 -
AB,
"right, so one minute you're demanding higher wages through a "living wage" the next you're defending a low wage economy."
I remember discussions with tim about this and he couldn't see the inconsistency either. I think we have the wrong sort of working class - immigrants are better voters as far as Labour are concerned. Plus, they always have the posh Guardian readers too. Far more couth.
And to make it worse, the ungrateful pillocks are deserting to Ukip.0 -
I would happily pay a few pennies more for my veg if it meant sorting out immigration. Of course he ignores all the costs of housing, educating, policing and nursing those highly valuable lettuce pickers.Alanbrooke said:
right, so one minute you're demanding higher wages through a "living wage" the next you're defending a low wage economy .SandyRentool said:
Yes, food would be so much cheaper if we didn't have any eastern europeans to pick the veg and do other jobs in the agricultural and food sectors that the indigenous Jeremy Kyle watchers think are beneath them.FalseFlag said:
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.0 -
No, I'm just praising those who are prepared to get off their backsides and put in a day's graft in the cold and wet. Without them, the fields would lie fallow, and the food would have to be imported.Alanbrooke said:
right, so one minute you're demanding higher wages through a "living wage" the next you're defending a low wage economy .SandyRentool said:
Yes, food would be so much cheaper if we didn't have any eastern europeans to pick the veg and do other jobs in the agricultural and food sectors that the indigenous Jeremy Kyle watchers think are beneath them.FalseFlag said:
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.0 -
Even more than the 100% mortgages, the sign of sickness in the banking and housing sectors were the 125% mortgages. Beyond mad.Flightpath said:
And its the tories who have brought in help to buy. It was labour who presided over ruinous 100%+ mortgages and also ruined the banks and brought in the need to restore their balance sheets and thus brought back 20% deposits. Only last October the papers were reporting that lenders price war was good news for borrowers so once again we get a bogus argument.MaxPB said:
Tories always seem to forget that Thatcherism was about owning one's own home rather than owning everyone else's home as well. Until this collective amnesia is lifted the Tories will struggle to win votes from working age people as they are seen as the party of the establishment who support older landlords in the utterly selfish baby boomer generation.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.
And 'baby boomers' & 'leeching' seems pretty conclusive to me.
And it should also of course be pointed out that in theory, under Help to Buy, you can buy with a 5% deposit (I know it's more difficult than that in practice) and that is a coalition policy. In a field of fairly stiff competition, it has been by far their worst policy, because it has stoked up a housing bubble that really needed gradually deflating.
0 -
She was obviously interested, but you fell at the final hurdle.NickPalmer said:
I went back to glamour boss and reported this. She tossed her hair back contemptuously and roared, "He's a fucking liar! Go back and ask him again!"
That was one romance that never quite took off.0 -
I very much doubt it.SandyRentool said:
No, I'm just praising those who are prepared to get off their backsides and put in a day's graft in the cold and wet. Without them, the fields would lie fallow, and the food would have to be imported.Alanbrooke said:
right, so one minute you're demanding higher wages through a "living wage" the next you're defending a low wage economy .SandyRentool said:
Yes, food would be so much cheaper if we didn't have any eastern europeans to pick the veg and do other jobs in the agricultural and food sectors that the indigenous Jeremy Kyle watchers think are beneath them.FalseFlag said:
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.
Either the land would be put to other uses - housing, forestry - or the price of strawberries would rise to pay higher wages. If the wages get too high then growers will mechanise.0 -
divvie, I missed your earlier reply as I got dragged off by she who must be obeyed.Theuniondivvie said:
She was obviously interested, but you fell at the final hurdle.NickPalmer said:
I went back to glamour boss and reported this. She tossed her hair back contemptuously and roared, "He's a fucking liar! Go back and ask him again!"
That was one romance that never quite took off.
I hope all works out for you quickly, best of Scottish ;-)0 -
They pay their taxes to fund such services - unlike the Jeremy Kyle set who just take.FalseFlag said:
I would happily pay a few pennies more for my veg if it meant sorting out immigration. Of course he ignores all the costs of housing, educating, policing and nursing those highly valuable lettuce pickers.Alanbrooke said:
right, so one minute you're demanding higher wages through a "living wage" the next you're defending a low wage economy .SandyRentool said:
Yes, food would be so much cheaper if we didn't have any eastern europeans to pick the veg and do other jobs in the agricultural and food sectors that the indigenous Jeremy Kyle watchers think are beneath them.FalseFlag said:
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.0 -
The price wouldn't rise, as strawberries would be grown and imported from elsewhere.Alanbrooke said:
I very much doubt it.
Either the land would be put to other uses - housing, forestry - or the price of strawberries would rise to pay higher wages. If the wages get too high then growers will mechanise.
It's difficult to mechanise the strawberry industry, or certain others like say the apple industry, because you run the risk of accidentally pulping a large proportion of your small, delicate bits of fruit, which means you either lose it or make it into juice/jam, which makes far less money. Human picking is far more efficient, at any rate at the moment.
Lose the land? That's a possibility. Most strawberry farms and orchards of my acquaintance in the Forest of Dean however are on thin soil not suitable for large trees, which is how they came to be planted in the first place, so out goes one of your options. Wheat is another possibility, but it's not profitable due to competition from China, Russia, America and Australia. That leaves building - but that also requires major infrastructure development to support it and it's difficult to get planning permission from local councils in many cases.
So what happens? Well - how many golf courses can one rural area support?
0 -
so you're cool with us stealing other nations' skills and their tax bases ?SandyRentool said:
They pay their taxes to fund such services - unlike the Jeremy Kyle set who just take.FalseFlag said:
I would happily pay a few pennies more for my veg if it meant sorting out immigration. Of course he ignores all the costs of housing, educating, policing and nursing those highly valuable lettuce pickers.Alanbrooke said:
right, so one minute you're demanding higher wages through a "living wage" the next you're defending a low wage economy .SandyRentool said:
Yes, food would be so much cheaper if we didn't have any eastern europeans to pick the veg and do other jobs in the agricultural and food sectors that the indigenous Jeremy Kyle watchers think are beneath them.FalseFlag said:
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.0 -
Affordable, decent housing is very hard to come by in Merseyside too.SandyRentool said:
Across the country or just in London & the south east?MaxPB said:Looks like Civitas have picked up on the real housing crisis in the country. The party which steps up and sorts out the buy-to-let sector will win the votes of 25-40 year olds across the country. For too long have the baby boomer generation leeched from the incomes of the young though property "investment".
0 -
Ta, appreciated.Alanbrooke said:
divvie, I missed your earlier reply as I got dragged off by she who must be obeyed.Theuniondivvie said:
She was obviously interested, but you fell at the final hurdle.NickPalmer said:
I went back to glamour boss and reported this. She tossed her hair back contemptuously and roared, "He's a fucking liar! Go back and ask him again!"
That was one romance that never quite took off.
I hope all works out for you quickly, best of Scottish ;-)0 -
Miniscule amounts which nowhere matches what they take out.SandyRentool said:
They pay their taxes to fund such services - unlike the Jeremy Kyle set who just take.FalseFlag said:
I would happily pay a few pennies more for my veg if it meant sorting out immigration. Of course he ignores all the costs of housing, educating, policing and nursing those highly valuable lettuce pickers.Alanbrooke said:
right, so one minute you're demanding higher wages through a "living wage" the next you're defending a low wage economy .SandyRentool said:
Yes, food would be so much cheaper if we didn't have any eastern europeans to pick the veg and do other jobs in the agricultural and food sectors that the indigenous Jeremy Kyle watchers think are beneath them.FalseFlag said:
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.
Unlike the left I refuse to write off part of our people, no matter how few their numbers, I am my brother's keeper.0 -
Amazing if true - they seem to have completely ignored the huge fall off in non working due to GO and IDS making work pay. Kippers see to be morphing into a party for Woolas types.taffys said:http://order-order.com/2015/01/02/red-ukip-call-for-higher-unemployment-benefits/
New details on the UKIP 'thrust left'0 -
So strawberries are imported from elsewhere and the average wage of low skill workers rises. What's the problem with that? This obsession with maintaining a low wage economy is bizarre. If UK workers see demand for their labour increase to the point where they're priced out of the lowest wage professions that's a good thing. It's madness for any government interested in the welfare of its citizens to make immigration policies in order to keep wages low.ydoethur said:
The price wouldn't rise, as strawberries would be grown and imported from elsewhere.Alanbrooke said:
I very much doubt it.
Either the land would be put to other uses - housing, forestry - or the price of strawberries would rise to pay higher wages. If the wages get too high then growers will mechanise.
It's difficult to mechanise the strawberry industry, or certain others like say the apple industry, because you run the risk of accidentally pulping a large proportion of your small, delicate bits of fruit, which means you either lose it or make it into juice/jam, which makes far less money. Human picking is far more efficient, at any rate at the moment.
Lose the land? That's a possibility. Most strawberry farms and orchards of my acquaintance in the Forest of Dean however are on thin soil not suitable for large trees, which is how they came to be planted in the first place, so out goes one of your options. Wheat is another possibility, but it's not profitable due to competition from China, Russia, America and Australia. That leaves building - but that also requires major infrastructure development to support it and it's difficult to get planning permission from local councils in many cases.
So what happens? Well - how many golf courses can one rural area support?0 -
While also supporting membership of the EU, which has an agricultural policy that costs every British citizen hundreds of pounds a year in extra food costs and taxes.Alanbrooke said:
right, so one minute you're demanding higher wages through a "living wage" the next you're defending a low wage economy .SandyRentool said:
Yes, food would be so much cheaper if we didn't have any eastern europeans to pick the veg and do other jobs in the agricultural and food sectors that the indigenous Jeremy Kyle watchers think are beneath them.FalseFlag said:
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.
All these arguments from the pro-EU, pro-immigration brigade about economics are completely false. That's shown by the sheer inconsistency of them as you move from topic to topic. They don't actually care about economics. They just support, as fundamental principles, bringing over people of non-British cultures and in subjugating British government to non-British government. They will then use whatever arguments they can find to defend such goals, because it's politically difficult to admit that they prefer foreign culture and government to our own.0 -
Oh I can't get too excited about a bit of land re-shuffling, it won;t be golf as we have too many courses already. Growers will simply move to other products or charge more for what they sell. I'd certainly pay more for UK strawberries as they taste better than some of the red bullets get from Spain. As for mechanisation it comes in many forms, I was quite surprised to see a lot of growers no longer plant strawberries in the ground but in trenches at roughly waist height. Productivity and innovation will force numerous other such changes. The basis of a high wage high productivity economy forces people to come up with smarter ways of doing things.ydoethur said:
The price wouldn't rise, as strawberries would be grown and imported from elsewhere.Alanbrooke said:
I very much doubt it.
Either the land would be put to other uses - housing, forestry - or the price of strawberries would rise to pay higher wages. If the wages get too high then growers will mechanise.
Lose the land? That's a possibility. Most strawberry farms and orchards of my acquaintance in the Forest of Dean however are on thin soil not suitable for large trees, which is how they came to be planted in the first place, so out goes one of your options. Wheat is another possibility, but it's not profitable due to competition from China, Russia, America and Australia. That leaves building - but that also requires major infrastructure development to support it and it's difficult to get planning permission from local councils in many cases.
So what happens? Well - how many golf courses can one rural area support?0 -
Why not? Companies compete, and that produces better companies and better products.Alanbrooke said:
so you're cool with us stealing other nations' skills and their tax bases ?SandyRentool said:
They pay their taxes to fund such services - unlike the Jeremy Kyle set who just take.FalseFlag said:
I would happily pay a few pennies more for my veg if it meant sorting out immigration. Of course he ignores all the costs of housing, educating, policing and nursing those highly valuable lettuce pickers.Alanbrooke said:
right, so one minute you're demanding higher wages through a "living wage" the next you're defending a low wage economy .SandyRentool said:
Yes, food would be so much cheaper if we didn't have any eastern europeans to pick the veg and do other jobs in the agricultural and food sectors that the indigenous Jeremy Kyle watchers think are beneath them.FalseFlag said:
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.
Countries should compete for talent and industry and people and resources. Those countries that attract the best people will be the ones that thrive.0 -
Sandy.
"Without them, the fields would lie fallow, and the food would have to be imported."
I'm in Boston next week for a 'do', so I'll report back on Vilnius Central.
Ah ... all the fun I had in those golden summer days until I was seventeen. Up at six for paper round, back at eight for pick up by gang van, tatey picking all day, home for tea at four, back in the gang van and fields for half-six, and home at nine. If it rained, you got b*gger all.
Far more professional now but the East Europeans do it well. My nephew who's just graduated but can't get a job is looking round for temporary work. No use asking the farmers/gangers as he doesn't speak the language (Lithuanian).
Some would do it, some wouldn't. Don't blame all the unemployed.
0 -
So immigration = theft. Strangely, I always thought that the plundering associated with Empire was more akin to theft.Alanbrooke said:
so you're cool with us stealing other nations' skills and their tax bases ?SandyRentool said:
They pay their taxes to fund such services - unlike the Jeremy Kyle set who just take.FalseFlag said:
I would happily pay a few pennies more for my veg if it meant sorting out immigration. Of course he ignores all the costs of housing, educating, policing and nursing those highly valuable lettuce pickers.Alanbrooke said:
right, so one minute you're demanding higher wages through a "living wage" the next you're defending a low wage economy .SandyRentool said:
Yes, food would be so much cheaper if we didn't have any eastern europeans to pick the veg and do other jobs in the agricultural and food sectors that the indigenous Jeremy Kyle watchers think are beneath them.FalseFlag said:
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.
Right, I'm off to eat some British-grown veggies for my tea...0 -
It is beyond inept. Particularly when they've failed to make that argument in London, where high housing costs, driven overwhelmingly by mass migration, screw over standards of living for black, white and brown people alike. The fact that Boris Johnson doesn't even differentiate between high skill and low skill migrants when he talks about the issue just shows how useless a political leader he is.FalseFlag said:
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.0 -
Then can you explain why we subsequently have to send billions over seas to help the self same countries develop ? maybe if we had controlled immigration and took more care of developing our own people and infrastructure we'd all be better off. We won't train enough nurses and doctors but we'll top up from Sirrra Leone or Liberia who might need them more - how does that work ?rcs1000 said:
Why not? Companies compete, and that produces better companies and better products.Alanbrooke said:
so you're cool with us stealing other nations' skills and their tax bases ?SandyRentool said:
They pay their taxes to fund such services - unlike the Jeremy Kyle set who just take.FalseFlag said:
I would happily pay a few pennies more for my veg if it meant sorting out immigration. Of course he ignores all the costs of housing, educating, policing and nursing those highly valuable lettuce pickers.Alanbrooke said:
right, so one minute you're demanding higher wages through a "living wage" the next you're defending a low wage economy .SandyRentool said:
Yes, food would be so much cheaper if we didn't have any eastern europeans to pick the veg and do other jobs in the agricultural and food sectors that the indigenous Jeremy Kyle watchers think are beneath them.FalseFlag said:
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.
Countries should compete for talent and industry and people and resources. Those countries that attract the best people will be the ones that thrive.0 -
I don't know if this has been posted before but a very interesting bit of research by Populus.
http://www.populus.co.uk/item/When-voters-say-all-parties-are-the-same-theyre-just-complaining-that-other-voters-aren’t-sufficiently-like-them-/
They come up with 4 fictitious parties with 6 different categories of policy beliefs on Europe, climate change, business, public services, same sex marriage and immigration. Party A is roughly traditional Labour, Party B is Blairite (or current Lib Dem) Party C is Cameron's Tories and D might be Ukip. What polling numbers do they get?
Party A - 27%
Party B - 13%
Party C - 23%
Party D - 37%
So the policy mix that corresponds most closely to Cameron and Blair come third and fourth respectively. Party D which takes a tough line on Europe, immigration, wants more business regulation, no equal rights for gay couples and is sceptical about climate change is the most popular and also the overwhelming choice of (85%) Ukip supporters. But does it actually correspond to Ukip? It's worth reading the whole thing but it helps to make sense of quite a few things, particularly when people are asked which other party they would be happy to work with in coalition. The Blairite party B is more popular amongst current Conservative voters than current Labour voters. More Party C (Cameron) supporters would like to work with B (Blairites) than D (Ukip).0 -
Kippers see to be morphing into a party for Woolas types.
If UKIP is concentrating on attacking the working class vote, that could be significant. Does it expect the tories to go back?0 -
@FrankBooth
It's very interesting that even the Blairite and Cameroon parties together wouldn't outpoll the right-wing populist party.
It also confirms the fundamental mistake of the Cameroon project: the Tories problem wasn't that they were insufficiently Blairite, it was that they were seen as too close to big business and the economic elite.0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
Hmm. If UKIP are calling for higher benefits that's not going to tempt me their way.0 -
0
-
They only wanted higher benefits for people that have paid into the system for a long time. So more akin to unemployment insurance than benefits.Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
Hmm. If UKIP are calling for higher benefits that's not going to tempt me their way.0 -
Socrates,
"Party A isn't old Labour at all. It's pretty much Ed Miliband's Labour party."
I agree.0 -
Only so long as you don't film it...rcs1000 said:
Maybe I could just pay Katie Hopkins to go away? We could do a whipround.TheScreamingEagles said:
And you call yourself a civil libertarian.rcs1000 said:
Normally I'd agree with you Mr Morris_Dancer. I have always hated ASBOs, they seem undemocratic and totally lacking in judicial oversight. (Bystander's criticisms of them are - IMHO - spot on.)Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 1000, ASBOs*, and it's indefensible to make legal activity a crime.
On the EU, it should not merely be left, but dismantled. They won't, though, and it'll crash and burn instead, sooner or later.
But this is Katie Hopkins we're talking about here. Just think: we could criminalise her being her. How good would that be?0 -
— john Jones UKIP (@jlj21964) January 2, 2015
I love it! It's what UKIP is for.0 -
@charlotteahenry: 15 (mostly) political predictions for 2015 | http://t.co/74cySRlW7S
@charlotteahenry: 2 general elections, new party leaders, and the first female Defense Secretary - my predictions for 2015 http://t.co/300w0Ir83m0 -
The Carswell defection is looking like extremely clever politics by Farage. It's clear that Carswell's role is to be that of the token Thatcherite - keep the Tories of southern England and libertarian-leaning journos pacified, whilst Farage and co. woo the north with the murky dystopian politics of state empowerment and welfarism. Sadly, such is Carswell's vanity and blind ambition that he'll probably wear it, even if history will deem him a sort of UKIP John Amery.taffys said:http://order-order.com/2015/01/02/red-ukip-call-for-higher-unemployment-benefits/
New details on the UKIP 'thrust left'0 -
@George_Osborne: Have done an interview with @cathynewman for @channel4News re the big economic choice facing Britain in this election year
If only the foremost UK expert on all things Osborne was still a regular poster here...0 -
Aka not immigrants ?Socrates said:
They only wanted higher benefits for people that have paid into the system for a long time. So more akin to unemployment insurance than benefits.Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
Hmm. If UKIP are calling for higher benefits that's not going to tempt me their way.0 -
Will he wear it? Every question he is asked over the next 5 months in any forum is going to be "Do you agree with [insert loony UKIP policy here] ?"Stark_Dawning said:The Carswell defection is looking like extremely clever politics by Farage. It's clear that Carswell's role is to be that of the token Thatcherite
0 -
I am, he's a twat.Scott_P said:@George_Osborne: Have done an interview with @cathynewman for @channel4News re the big economic choice facing Britain in this election year
If only the foremost UK expert on all things Osborne was still a regular poster here...0 -
Bore off faux outrage artists, you don't mean it
CrawleyConservatives (@Better4Crawley)
02/01/2015 15:32
The term "blonde bird" from the 20th Century has no place in the 21st, unless you are this Crawley Labour Councillor. pic.twitter.com/013rQLOXyn0 -
Socrates said:
@FrankBooth
Party A isn't old Labour at all. It's pretty much Ed Miliband's Labour party.
And Ed Milliband´s Labou Party is pretty much where the Lib Dems used to be.....Socrates said:@FrankBooth
Party A isn't old Labour at all. It's pretty much Ed Miliband's Labour party.0 -
Brookie, I'd say you were more culpably misinformed but if twat is your preferred self description then so be it.Alanbrooke said:
I am, he's a twat.Scott_P said:@George_Osborne: Have done an interview with @cathynewman for @channel4News re the big economic choice facing Britain in this election year
If only the foremost UK expert on all things Osborne was still a regular poster here...0 -
Every question he is asked over the next 5 months in any forum is going to be "Do you agree with [insert loony UKIP policy here] ?"
Quite. Carswell might become the proxy for the conservative gone to UKIP. Isolated, compromised, embarrassed. A person fewer and fewer tories will want to identify with.
0 -
They get off their backsides and graft because they are used to a country where if you don't, you starveSandyRentool said:
No, I'm just praising those who are prepared to get off their backsides and put in a day's graft in the cold and wet. Without them, the fields would lie fallow, and the food would have to be imported.Alanbrooke said:
right, so one minute you're demanding higher wages through a "living wage" the next you're defending a low wage economy .SandyRentool said:
Yes, food would be so much cheaper if we didn't have any eastern europeans to pick the veg and do other jobs in the agricultural and food sectors that the indigenous Jeremy Kyle watchers think are beneath them.FalseFlag said:
It would help if the Conservative leadership could correctly tie in the housing and cost of living crisis with Labour's mass immigration policies. As it is they have no answer and the electorate know that.taffys said:''Pretty crass to condemn an entire generation for simply being born and put into a situation not of their making.''
That is not what Max said. The fact is that huge numbers of hard working and well qualified 25-40 year olds are de facto rent slaves with zero prospect of owning their own homes either now or in the future.
The tories will struggle to get majorities whilst this is the case - period. Labour rent controls and mansion taxes will prove popular.There is no point ignoring this.
The Cons have to find a way to cheapen up property, either by raising disposable incomes or allowing much more house building. This should be a top priority.
Property owning popular capitalism was the cornerstone to Thatcher's victories.
The 'indigenous' people you criticise are blameless pawns in the game... products of a system that encourages people to be lazy0 -
Ah Mr O long time since I've had the pleasure. How's all that pretending the deficit's gone going ?JohnO said:
Brookie, I'd say you were more culpably misinformed but if twat is your preferred self description then so be it.Alanbrooke said:
I am, he's a twat.Scott_P said:@George_Osborne: Have done an interview with @cathynewman for @channel4News re the big economic choice facing Britain in this election year
If only the foremost UK expert on all things Osborne was still a regular poster here...0 -
So far he has just run away from any such tough questions.Scott_P said:
Will he wear it? Every question he is asked over the next 5 months in any forum is going to be "Do you agree with [insert loony UKIP policy here] ?"Stark_Dawning said:The Carswell defection is looking like extremely clever politics by Farage. It's clear that Carswell's role is to be that of the token Thatcherite
0
