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A dangerously illiberal idea – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,795

    But to defend CR’s point, they may say it’s best to do that, but do they actually practice it? And the US Civil War is I think the best example of something only seen these days through modern eyes. Lincoln’s always seen as the saviour, who freed blacks from slavery. But he wanted them all deported back to Africa once freed, didn’t he? Like that’s no different than Trumps position. 🤷‍♀️

    No, he didn’t.

    In his early years, he was an advocate of Colonisation - the *voluntary return* of freed slaves to Africa.

    After he met the leaders of free African Americans (such as Frederick Douglass) who were opposed to this, he changed his mind.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,242
    Feels like the media has been trying to warn people Ukraine could lose a lot more territory (not just face an endless stalemate) in the last few weeks. Not sure enough people are listening, or if it would matter to the practical decision making taking place.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn0dpdx420lo
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,330

    But to defend CR’s point, they may say it’s best to do that, but do they actually practice it? And the US Civil War is I think the best example of something only seen these days through modern eyes. Lincoln’s always seen as the saviour, who freed blacks from slavery. But he wanted them all deported back to Africa once freed, didn’t he? Like that’s no different than Trumps position. 🤷‍♀️

    Lincoln was fighting to preserve the Union, not to end slavery.

    But, the Southern leaders were definitely fighting to uphold slavery. Their Articles of Secession made that clear.

    Lincoln had no plans to abolish slavery, but he wanted there to be no more slave States. Because cotton is a thirsty crop, the planters had to keep breaking new ground, moving Westward. A bar on new slave States would ultimately have finished the South’s cotton-based economy.
  • So am I, the humble postie, the only one who chats to Sir Simon Russell Beale?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,943

    Is it any good?

    I tried reading Wolf Hall and found the artificiality of Mantel's style insufferable. I guess that's not an issue with the film production, so maybe I should try it?
    The first series is superb. The current one I'm not such a fan of - the dialogue isn't as considered as the first series, and the soundtrack is deeply irritating.
  • I like him - he was superb as Falstaff in the Hollow Crown series - but I think that honour defiently goes to Mark Rylance. I have seen him several times in Shakespeare productions and he is remarkable. I think he is probably the best actor in all fields of his generation.
    David Tennant has played time lords, detectives, serial killers and a Danish prince.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,473
    kle4 said:

    Voters should be casting their vote for all sorts of reasons, yet won't. Nick Palmer I believe has told the story of someone saying they would vote for him as he was tall. We cannot control how people will come to their decision with that kind of desired precision.

    I'm skeptical of how big an effect is from people changing their minds about how to vote because of what the polls might say anyway, feels like a post election justification.
    I understand two people voted for NP because of his prowess in bed.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,137
    Here’s Trumps education Secretary pick, Linda McMahon taking a Tombstone Piledriver from Republican Mayor Glenn Jacobs no less.

    https://x.com/huberton/status/1859304678481330673?s=61
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,429

    So am I, the humble postie, the only one who chats to Sir Simon Russell Beale?

    That's very kind. Doesn't he have any friends to talk to?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814

    David Tennant has played time lords, detectives, serial killers and a Danish prince.
    He’s very good. For the new generation i would put a vote in for Ben Whishaw as one with a commanding aura
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,429
    Taz said:

    Here’s Trumps education Secretary pick, Linda McMahon taking a Tombstone Piledriver from Republican Mayor Glenn Jacobs no less.

    https://x.com/huberton/status/1859304678481330673?s=61

    You'll give @ydoethur ideas.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,109
    "The trial began on Tuesday in which terror convict Anders Behring Breivik is requesting parole from custody."

    https://www-dagbladet-no.translate.goog/nyheter/vanskelig-for-ham/82261628?_x_tr_sl=no&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,050

    You'll give @ydoethur ideas.
    I've already said this is his one redeeming feature.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,427
    Leon said:

    Fuck me, dark already at 4pm

    Have you experienced England in winter before?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,390

    Compared with the Yanks:

    51 Attack Subs
    18 Nuke Subs
    11 Carriers
    9 Assault (Helicopter) Carriers
    9 Cruisers
    76 Destroyers
    25 Frigates ("Littoral ships")
    22 Assault (Landing) ships
    37 Offshore patrol (inc. large Coast Guard cutters)

    total 258 major warships
    It makes sense to scrap useless assets. I hope they looked long and hard at the aircraft carriers - they seem entirely pointless to me as neither of them actually work. Shoddy old Gordon Brown.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,242

    David Tennant has played time lords, detectives, serial killers and a Danish prince.
    I liked him as John Knox, though my memory of the performance is it basically amounted to him saying 'harlot' a lot.

    And I've just discovered he played the Lord Commander in the rather weird sci-fi cartoon Final Space. Quite versatile.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,817
    edited November 2024
    moonshine said:

    He’s very good. For the new generation i would put a vote in for Ben Whishaw as one with a commanding aura
    Woof woof. Bang bang.

    ETA Norman Scott in A Very English Scandal.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "The trial began on Tuesday in which terror convict Anders Behring Breivik is requesting parole from custody."

    https://www-dagbladet-no.translate.goog/nyheter/vanskelig-for-ham/82261628?_x_tr_sl=no&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

    Turned up with the letter 'Z' cut on his hair apparently.

  • FossFoss Posts: 1,334
    Andy_JS said:

    "The trial began on Tuesday in which terror convict Anders Behring Breivik is requesting parole from custody."

    https://www-dagbladet-no.translate.goog/nyheter/vanskelig-for-ham/82261628?_x_tr_sl=no&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

    They'd be foolish to let him out. But then they were foolish to sentence him to only 21 years.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,242

    I continually state that we should judge historical figures by the social mores of their time. Colston is seen as a demon now, judged by 21st century people. But at the time he would have been doing nothing out of the ordinary. Some people like to think that if they were born in previous times they would have the same sensibilities as they do today, but we are moulded by our upbringing.
    I think Richard Dawkins referenced Lincoln when talking about what he called the shifting moral zeitgeist. I think we can judge people for things that were normal in their times to some extent - there may have been people then who did not share those views - but we do have to understand the context of those times and if it was indeed unexceptional, and a sense of proportion is needed if we're going to, IDK, cancel roman emperors for being slavers or something.

    My solution is we put labels on any historical works that state 'the person who produced this will have had different views from today, and there's a decent chance they were racist, sexist, or homophobic by our standards, so let's assume that and move on'.
  • Jeremy Corbyn fans please explain

    An angrier response to Britain sending missiles to Ukraine than we got when Russia sent assassins to murder British citizens on British soil

    Corbyn has Tweeted

    The Prime Minister should make a statement to Parliament, immediately, to confirm whether UK missiles have been fired into Russia.

    He must tell the British public if this means we are now at war with a nuclear power, what risk this poses to people in Britain, and why this action was taken without any approval from Parliament.

    I have consistently condemned Russia for its invasion of Ukraine and called for a diplomatic solution to stop the endless bloodshed.

    As we edge closer and closer to catastrophe, we should be doing everything in our power to bring about de-escalation and peace. Instead, our political leaders have added fuel to the fire and gambled with people’s lives for political gain.

    Presidents and Prime Ministers must know that in the event of nuclear war, nobody wins.

    I’m not interested in bombs. I’m interested in peace – and I will continue to campaign for peace in Ukraine, Gaza, Yemen, Sudan, the DRC and beyond.


    https://x.com/BenKentish/status/1859309594729943266
  • Omnium said:

    It makes sense to scrap useless assets. I hope they looked long and hard at the aircraft carriers - they seem entirely pointless to me as neither of them actually work. Shoddy old Gordon Brown.

    The carriers themselves work just fine, within the limitations of their design. It's everything around them that's a problem.

    There are not enough Type 45 destroyers to reliably provide escorts for even one carrier. There are not enough F-35s to equip a complete air wing on one carrier when training and maintenance are taken into account. No effort was ever made to develop a VTOL radar aircraft (which is the only kind the QEs can launch) so they depend on helicopters to do that job, with severely reduced performance.

    If we'd got the originally promised 12 Type 45s and 138 F-35s the carriers would be significantly more useful.

    But that said, being able to field a carrier with stealthy fighters aboard is a huge deal. That puts us in a league where the only other players are the US and (kind of) China.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,050

    Jeremy Corbyn fans please explain

    An angrier response to Britain sending missiles to Ukraine than we got when Russia sent assassins to murder British citizens on British soil

    Corbyn has Tweeted

    The Prime Minister should make a statement to Parliament, immediately, to confirm whether UK missiles have been fired into Russia.

    He must tell the British public if this means we are now at war with a nuclear power, what risk this poses to people in Britain, and why this action was taken without any approval from Parliament.

    I have consistently condemned Russia for its invasion of Ukraine and called for a diplomatic solution to stop the endless bloodshed.

    As we edge closer and closer to catastrophe, we should be doing everything in our power to bring about de-escalation and peace. Instead, our political leaders have added fuel to the fire and gambled with people’s lives for political gain.

    Presidents and Prime Ministers must know that in the event of nuclear war, nobody wins.

    I’m not interested in bombs. I’m interested in peace – and I will continue to campaign for peace in Ukraine, Gaza, Yemen, Sudan, the DRC and beyond.


    https://x.com/BenKentish/status/1859309594729943266

    So, just to be clear, he thinks that invading a sovereign country to show that the President has a penis longer than one inch should be solved by talking to the invader?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,488

    Counterfactual time: either Clinton or McCain would have been much tougher on Russia than Obama was.
    As would Romney
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,242
    edited November 2024
    ydoethur said:

    So, just to be clear, he thinks that invading a sovereign country to show that the President has a penis longer than one inch should be solved by talking to the invader?
    Being charitable, the impression I get from the Corbyns of the world is that they are so worried about overreacting to events, that they decry any attempt to actually react in the first place.

    There are nuances to this whole affair, and some cold hard practicalities as well no doubt, but he alway seems to suggest anyone who doesn't agree that wanting peace is itself enough (that action besides talking might be needed) is a warmonger. British tanks and other weapons have already been used, why would a missile landing in Russia make much additional difference? The Kremlin will say it does, and get traction from the predictable quarters of twitter, but is it really that different?

    He's probably a believer in the old 'NATO expansion caused the war' nonsense.

    Ukraine defending itself is not an escalation.
    https://nitter.poast.org/StewartMcDonald/status/1859287937197932831#m
  • Phil said:

    & if the profit is never realised?
    I used to work in the IT department of a Life and Pensions company, supporting their Investments department.
    I maintained the code for, and ran, their "Deemed Disposal" process.
    I (together with a work colleague in case one of us got hit by a bus) went into the office on New Years Day and ran the process.
    Unit Trusts and similar assets would be notionally sold, and then notionally bought back (bed and breakfasting) to realise any gains through the year. There would be a tax liability for these gains, to be met by selling assets for real, not notionally the next day. This could be tens of millions £, so no pressure!

    This was done because, with the regular monthly investments from employer, employee, and personal pension schemes into the funds, actually selling something was rare and the funds were always growing.

    But this only works for easily priced, liquid assets. For un-priced, illiquid assets such as property or land, there is a problem.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,488
    Nunu3 said:

    if they pick him they lose. Bigger than this year.
    I doubt it, Buttigieg would have more appeal in the midwest swing states coming from Indiana.

    Though as RCS decides the 2028 election will likely also be decided on the economy so the candidate only makes much difference if very close
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,689

    Counterfactual time: either Clinton or McCain would have been much tougher on Russia than Obama was.
    Yes, Obama wasn't actually that good. Although better than every candidate either party has put forward since 2016 by an absolute country mile.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,242
    edited November 2024
    Can't think who he might be thinking of.

    There really are a lot of people in the West who have been making it very clear for many years now that their preferred outcome in this war is to see Ukraine broken and subjugated, and I’m here to tell you that it’s absolutely morally justified to tell them to shut the fuck up...

    People are literally being slaughtered over here while the nasty jam man is arguing that they shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves. That's not an anti-war position, it's an appeasement of fascism position.

    https://nitter.poast.org/OzKaterji/status/1859286863250702742#m

    Sadly I do think we are not far off Ukraine having to move to a ceasefire which will become the de facto boundaries for some time. The world gets used to frozen conflicts.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,488
    Omnium said:

    It makes sense to scrap useless assets. I hope they looked long and hard at the aircraft carriers - they seem entirely pointless to me as neither of them actually work. Shoddy old Gordon Brown.
    No, we need aircraft carriers as a P5 UN Sec Council member and still with overseas territories. They have at least made clear 1 will be kept regardless
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,062

    Have you experienced England in winter before?
    Sunset and sunrise times are nothing if not predictable
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,050
    Pulpstar said:

    Sunset and sunrise times are nothing if not predictable
    And if not, the timing of Leon whingeing about darkness absolutely is.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,414
    edited November 2024
    kle4 said:

    He has never agreed that people should be able to fight back, or be helped to do so. He would deny it, but the only practical measure his views accept seems to be that people should just surrender, since that leads to peace the fastest. Whilst there are obviously serious issues to consider for world leaders around escalation, it's hard to see how this marks a severe example of that. If anything, given Russia has gone so far as to essentially hire North Korean state mercenaries as an escalation, the Ukrainian allies doing nothing additional in reaction would appear to be an acceptance of Russian escalation.
    It is fair to question what can be gained by this move now. Will it push Russia back? Or is it a rather dangerous escalation aimed at starting WW3 before Trump can get in? I don't see how objectively it can be deemed good foreign policy. And that's aside from my objection to our policy being choreographed to within an inch of its life by the Biden administration. We used to at least give the impression of being a sovereign nation.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,390
    HYUFD said:

    No, we need aircraft carriers as a P5 UN Sec Council member and still with overseas territories. They have at least made clear 1 will be kept regardless
    Surely the Airfix variety would be cheaper and less of a liability.
  • At the risk of breaking our servers, I like the new jaguar rebrand.

    Of course I am no position to afford one, nor am I ever likely to be.

  • kle4 said:

    I liked him as John Knox, though my memory of the performance is it basically amounted to him saying 'harlot' a lot.

    And I've just discovered he played the Lord Commander in the rather weird sci-fi cartoon Final Space. Quite versatile.
    Magnificent as Drostan in CoD Zombies, and very sweary.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,488
    kle4 said:

    Can't think who he might be thinking of.

    There really are a lot of people in the West who have been making it very clear for many years now that their preferred outcome in this war is to see Ukraine broken and subjugated, and I’m here to tell you that it’s absolutely morally justified to tell them to shut the fuck up...

    People are literally being slaughtered over here while the nasty jam man is arguing that they shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves. That's not an anti-war position, it's an appeasement of fascism position.

    https://nitter.poast.org/OzKaterji/status/1859286863250702742#m

    Sadly I do think we are not far off Ukraine having to move to a ceasefire which will become the de facto boundaries for some time. The world gets used to frozen conflicts.

    Ukraine needs to get its own nuclear weapons if it wants to secure its sovereignty

    One expert even says Trump will give Ukraine nuclear weapons if it stays out of NATO

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1978193/donald-trump-ukraine-nuclear-weapons-vladimir-putin
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,330

    It is fair to question what can be gained by this move now. Will it push Russia back? Or is it a rather dangerous escalation aimed at starting WW3 before Trump can get in? I don't see how objectively it can be deemed good foreign policy. And that's aside from my objection to our policy being choreographed to within an inch of its life by the Biden administration. We used to at least give the impression of being a sovereign nation.
    The move is about two years too late, but better late than never.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,242
    edited November 2024

    It is fair to question what can be gained by this move now. Will it push Russia back? Or is it a rather dangerous escalation aimed at starting WW3 before Trump can get in? I don't see how objectively it can be deemed good foreign policy. And that's aside from my objection to our policy being choreographed to within an inch of its life by the Biden administration. We used to at least give the impression of being a sovereign nation.
    There are certainly good questions to be asked. Whether it is effective as a measure is certainly one of them (I doubt it, if only because I don't see how we can have sent all that many missiles over in the first place, as we don't have many). Escalation as I've noted is a legitimate concern, and I've given my surface level opinion on why I don't see how it would be one - not least because Russia has 'escalated' many times, and I don't think not responding is de-escalation. Corbyn, however, is a particularly bad person to be asking these questions, given his stances. and how he employs way less critical thinking on his own positions than even me as an armchair warrior on the internet. It's nothing more than peace=good moralising from him.

    I accept your sincerity in taking a skeptical view of these things way more than I do with Jeremy Corbyn.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,488

    The lesson, very sadly, that many countries will feel they have to learn from Ukraine, should it be allowed to lose, is that it never should have given its nukes up when Clinton was around in mid 90s.

    Certainly any nation neighbouring Russia or China will learn that
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,488
    Sean_F said:

    He’d support any group that was fighting the British or US, however.
    Or Israel, the 3 Great Satans
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,330
    kle4 said:

    He has never agreed that people should be able to fight back, or be helped to do so. He would deny it, but the only practical measure his views accept seems to be that people should just surrender, since that leads to peace the fastest. Whilst there are obviously serious issues to consider for world leaders around escalation, it's hard to see how this marks a severe example of that. If anything, given Russia has gone so far as to essentially hire North Korean state mercenaries as an escalation, the Ukrainian allies doing nothing additional in reaction would appear to be an acceptance of Russian escalation.
    It’s clear there are people on right and left who think that big injustice was done to Russia, when parts of the USSR became independent.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,242
    edited November 2024
    HYUFD said:

    Ukraine needs to get its own nuclear weapons if it wants to secure its sovereignty

    One expert even says Trump will give Ukraine nuclear weapons if it stays out of NATO

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1978193/donald-trump-ukraine-nuclear-weapons-vladimir-putin
    If they could be safe from (or free of) Russia, I doubt they'd need to join NATO, but that seems to suggest that Ukraine joining NATO was a primary cause of things and so that resolved Russia would be satisfied, and I am skeptical of that - Russia obviously would not have wanted that, but there was an active conflict going on in Ukraine/Russia, NATO would surely not have let them join anyway. And in fact the invasion just led to more people joining NATO.
  • Omnium said:

    Surely the Airfix variety would be cheaper and less of a liability.
    I've been binge watching the last few nights* - 'Warship' - about our new carrier. Very interesting. But I expect navy traditionalists in the shires were spluttering themselves to sleep after viewing the modern navy in action: women, black lives history month events, on board relationships, grown men crying about missing their kids growing up etc.


    * note - I am late to this one - it was first shown a year or so ago.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814

    It is fair to question what can be gained by this move now. Will it push Russia back? Or is it a rather dangerous escalation aimed at starting WW3 before Trump can get in? I don't see how objectively it can be deemed good foreign policy. And that's aside from my objection to our policy being choreographed to within an inch of its life by the Biden administration. We used to at least give the impression of being a sovereign nation.
    None of us here have enough info to declare whether this is a sensible move or not. But the motivation would be a) to help Ukraine defend its Kursk foothold, b) to deter further DPRK deployments, c) a ratchet in pressure to raise the stakes for Putin going into 2025 negotiations.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,330
    rcs1000 said:

    My daughter's school has classrooms named after various historical figures: Lincoln, Mandela, Twain and the like.

    While it's a slightly wokier list than I might go for, the names are basically unobjectionable.

    Except one: Chomsky.

    I keep meaning to write to the school and complain. Because he is a total piece of shit, who shills for essentially any enemy of the West.
    Chomsky is intellectually dishonest.
  • Sean_F said:

    The move is about two years too late, but better late than never.
    Yanks always enter wars two or three years late...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,590

    Is it any good?

    I tried reading Wolf Hall and found the artificiality of Mantel's style insufferable. I guess that's not an issue with the film production, so maybe I should try it?
    Thank God it's not just me. Awful writer - unreadable IMO.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Doesn't it rather depend on how people feel in 2028?

    If the Trump administration makes everyone richer, then no matter who the Democrats pick, then there's going to be another Republican in the White House.

    While if tariffs result in significant inflation without appreciable job gains, then the Democrats could probably renominate Hillary and win.
    Few people are bothered about job gains unless they're gaining one of the jobs.

  • steve richards
    @steverichards14
    ·
    12m
    K Starmer has made a big and potentially dangerous call in allowing UK weapons to be fired on Russian territory. He needs to make a Commons’ statement and be questioned about his thinking . When leaders hide behind ‘operational’ secrecy terrible mistakes can be made.
  • Few people are bothered about job gains unless they're gaining one of the jobs.
    It is beyond ridiculous to be polling Dem primary for four years away.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Thank God it's not just me. Awful writer - unreadable IMO.
    Nope. The books are sublime. But - and this may be crucial - the 2nd and 3rd are much better than 1st.

    I started the first about three times before I clicked with it and went with the flow.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,993
    In the last few weeks, two of my friends have been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, and one with colon cancer.

    FUCK.
  • Nah, the greatest living stage actor is Sir Patrick Stewart, Brian Blessed a close second.
    Brian Blessed's performance in Flash Gordon was the epitome of subtlety and nuance.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,330


    steve richards
    @steverichards14
    ·
    12m
    K Starmer has made a big and potentially dangerous call in allowing UK weapons to be fired on Russian territory. He needs to make a Commons’ statement and be questioned about his thinking . When leaders hide behind ‘operational’ secrecy terrible mistakes can be made.

    I’ve said harsh things about SKS, but credit where it is due.
  • Sean_F said:

    Chomsky is intellectually dishonest.
    Chomsky is at least a scholar, alone in that list of worthies.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,383
    edited November 2024

    It is beyond ridiculous to be polling Dem primary for four years away.
    The answers are based on name recognition.

    Its the same reason why Hillary and Michelle were ridiculously short odds for Dem candidate this year.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,993

    Few people are bothered about job gains unless they're gaining one of the jobs.
    I don't think that's entirely true. If jobs are scarce, and unemployment rife, then people get nervous. So, maybe it's fair to say that after a certain level, job gains aren't that good, but job losses make everyone feel more... nervous.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,429

    At the risk of breaking our servers, I like the new jaguar rebrand.

    Of course I am no position to afford one, nor am I ever likely to be.

    I thought it would only appeal to trans teletubbies.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,993
    Sean_F said:

    Chomsky is intellectually dishonest.
    That's a very generous way of saying "total piece of shit".
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,330

    Chomsky is at least a scholar, alone in that list of worthies.
    That fact makes his intellectual dishonesty worse.

    It’s like Ann Coulter saying awful things, not because she’s stupid, but because she’s extremely intelligent and knows what she’s doing (you have to be very gifted to edit the Michigan Law Review.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,993
    The current situation is that there is assisted dying for people with money, but not for the poor.

    I'm not sure that's morally justifiable.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Putin will wait for his friend to be sworn in so all his current threats are a load of tosh .

  • Brian Blessed's performance in Flash Gordon was the epitome of subtlety and nuance.
    "Gordon's alive?"
  • nico679 said:

    Putin will wait for his friend to be sworn in so all his current threats are a load of tosh .

    Not sure 'friend' quite captures the nuances of the relationship to be honest.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,488
    nico679 said:

    Putin will wait for his friend to be sworn in so all his current threats are a load of tosh .

    Even if true it means British supplied missiles must all have been used by the Ukrainians in Kursk by the end of January
  • rcs1000 said:

    The current situation is that there is assisted dying for people with money, but not for the poor.

    I'm not sure that's morally justifiable.
    I am writing to my MP in part with that precise point.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,414
    Sean_F said:

    I’ve said harsh things about SKS, but credit where it is due.
    It's due to Biden. Sir Echo was quite happy with the ban until Biden lifted it. Attributing any independence to his foreign policy decisions is risible.
  • Sean_F said:

    That fact makes his intellectual dishonesty worse.

    It’s like Ann Coulter saying awful things, not because she’s stupid, but because she’s extremely intelligent and knows what she’s doing (you have to be very gifted to edit the Michigan Law Review.)
    It's possible the school are celebrating his groundbreaking work in linguistics.


  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,429
    rcs1000 said:

    That's a very generous way of saying "total piece of shit".
    That's no way to talk about the next Democratic Presidential nominee.
  • I thought it would only appeal to trans teletubbies.
    I've been doxed.

    Moderator!!!
  • rcs1000 said:

    The current situation is that there is assisted dying for people with money, but not for the poor.

    I'm not sure that's morally justifiable.
    There are very many things that are available to the rich and not the poor, nearly all of which are morally unjustifiable. The question we need to urgently answer is - Is the proposed change to this particular instance going to help or harm?
  • Brian Blessed's performance in Flash Gordon was the epitome of subtlety and nuance.
    He's been my inspiration on how to be subtle and nuanced.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,017
    edited November 2024
    Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the shadow Lord Chancellor.




    Robert Jenrick
    @RobertJenrick

    The Reeves guide to conning the public:

    1. Fake your CV
    2. Tell working people you won’t raise their taxes
    3. Squeeze them to the pips and give their money to your union paymasters

    You can’t trust a word she says👇

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1859298630512889988
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,993

    There are very many things that are available to the rich and not the poor, nearly all of which are morally unjustifiable. The question we need to urgently answer is - Is the proposed change to this particular instance going to help or harm?
    I think that is likely, but not certain. Things could also stay the same.
  • rcs1000 said:

    I don't think that's entirely true. If jobs are scarce, and unemployment rife, then people get nervous. So, maybe it's fair to say that after a certain level, job gains aren't that good, but job losses make everyone feel more... nervous.
    That's true.

    People are concerned about jobs when either they haven't got one or they're afraid of losing the one they have and not being able to get another.

    When those situation don't apply what they prefer is a good pay rise.

    Now we're currently in an era of full employment, for that to change to a period of high unemployment would likely require a severe recession.

    Which would certainly be not electorally favourable for the current government especially if compounded with tariff induced inflation.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,381
    edited November 2024

    He's been my inspiration on how to be subtle and nuanced.
    "Ah, well! Who wants to live forever? DIVE!"
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,993

    It's possible the school are celebrating his groundbreaking work in linguistics.


    TBF, the school has been around for some time, and in the not too distant past (say 1992) one could ignore his politics and focus on his linguistics.

    But the school would not, I suspect, have a room named after a Confederate leader, irrespective of their other academic achievements.
  • The lesson, very sadly, that many countries will feel they have to learn from Ukraine, should it be allowed to lose, is that it never should have given its nukes up when Clinton was around in mid 90s.

    I think its time for realpolitik. Ukraine cannot defeat Russia. A wider war where its chunks of Nato + Ukraine vs Russia could defeat Russia, but it seems very likely that Putin would push the button with his back against the wall.

    So peace talks are inevitable as is a deal which will see chunks of Ukraine not won back. If they can keep them out of Russia's hands that would be something - a demilitarised buffer zone perhaps.

    Ukraine's nukes? Kept at the end of the USSR? Ukraine had Soviet ICBMs and a fleet of heavy bombers - all of which used warheads controlled by Russia. Even if that control had been got around, had Ukraine kept those nukes then what would they have done - fired an ICBM at Moscow? A long range strategic weapon used to settle a border dispute over a shorter distance?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,214
    rcs1000 said:

    The current situation is that there is assisted dying for people with money, but not for the poor.

    I'm not sure that's morally justifiable.
    Pain is for the poor.
  • Bleak. Sorry to read this.
    So sorry to hear this. My mother died of pancreatic cancer. They gave her 6-12 months, and she lasted 15, 14 of them quite well most of the time. We had some fantastic times, great trips to Colombia and Poland, opera at Covent Garden and went to see the Grand National. The prognosis is often very poor but you can be quite well for most of the short time left and do some nice things.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,330

    He's been my inspiration on how to be subtle and nuanced.
    He was great as Augustus, along with Sian Philips as Livia. And Gimli as Macro.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,414

    Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the shadow Lord Chancellor.




    Robert Jenrick
    @RobertJenrick

    The Reeves guide to conning the public:

    1. Fake your CV
    2. Tell working people you won’t raise their taxes
    3. Squeeze them to the pips and give their money to your union paymasters

    You can’t trust a word she says👇

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1859298630512889988

    Where's the issue?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924

    Brian Blessed's performance in Flash Gordon was the epitome of subtlety and nuance.
    I prefer Suzzane Fields performance in 1974 film Flesh Gordon

    A couple of reasons.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,427

    Nope. The books are sublime. But - and this may be crucial - the 2nd and 3rd are much better than 1st.

    I started the first about three times before I clicked with it and went with the flow.
    I liked Wolf Hall but found the long spoken passages with no indicator of which character was speaking a distraction. I think she received criticism for this and changed her style in the second, to things like ‘he, Cromwell, thought’ to make it clearer.
    I have not finished the last book yet. In a sense I don’t want to. The Cromwell she has created is such a ‘person’ that you want him to win, and of course, in the end, he loses, ironically just after his greatest triumph and reward .
    Is her version accurate? We can never know, but his is mesmerising and Rylance has him, to an absolute T.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,277
    rcs1000 said:

    And, ummm, how many votes does Elon have?

    Like every election, 2028 will mostly come down to "do people feel better off than four years previously"?

    Now, I'm sceptical that the tariffs plan will make Americans richer. But I could easily be wrong.
    And the relevance of this is....?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,153
    edited November 2024
    Taz said:

    Here’s Trumps education Secretary pick, Linda McMahon taking a Tombstone Piledriver from Republican Mayor Glenn Jacobs no less.

    https://x.com/huberton/status/1859304678481330673?s=61

    Seriously - what's the setup there?

    She has, as a middelaged woman in her 50s (she's now 76?), presumably given consent before being laid out like that?

    Obvs "professional wrestling" is a slapstick stage act, but it also has risk.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,214
    ydoethur said:

    So, just to be clear, he thinks that invading a sovereign country to show that the President has a penis longer than one inch should be solved by talking to the invader?
    Corbyn thinks?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,330

    I liked Wolf Hall but found the long spoken passages with no indicator of which character was speaking a distraction. I think she received criticism for this and changed her style in the second, to things like ‘he, Cromwell, thought’ to make it clearer.
    I have not finished the last book yet. In a sense I don’t want to. The Cromwell she has created is such a ‘person’ that you want him to win, and of course, in the end, he loses, ironically just after his greatest triumph and reward .
    Is her version accurate? We can never know, but his is mesmerising and Rylance has him, to an absolute T.
    In general, I prefer the approach of Guy Gavriel Kaye, who creates societies that closely approach China or Europe in the past, but which are not straight historical fiction.

    That way, outcomes remain uncertain.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,277

    No, he didn’t.

    In his early years, he was an advocate of Colonisation - the *voluntary return* of freed slaves to Africa.

    After he met the leaders of free African Americans (such as Frederick Douglass) who were opposed to this, he changed his mind.
    That's a very glib simplification. Lincoln's mind was in flux at the time of his murder, as far as we can tell. He would say one thing to someone, and another to another. He was, after all, a politician, and a devious one at that

    We know for sure that for much of his life he had a racist opinion of black people, and thought them "unequal" to whites, and that they should be humanely deported from the USA if possible, after their emancipation

    BTW to unite two themes in this thread, over-rated novels and Abe Lincoln, has anyone read Lincoln in the Bardo?

    Rave reviews, "the greatest novel of the decade", blah blah, what a load of wank

    First five pages brilliant, next five pretty good, then it doesn't change for 300 pages, and there is no plot. PFFFF
  • Sean_F said:

    He was great as Augustus, along with Sian Philips as Livia. And Gimli as Macro.
    I think it was his 1978 Blakes7 appearance when Brian Blessed changed career from serious actor to national icon.
This discussion has been closed.