She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Does it annoy a lot of people? As someone who got it and doesn't now it doesn't annoy me as I never deserved it. That must be true of many. And what about all the non pensioners. It won't annoy them that they don't have to subside me. I imagine they are chuffed.
More importantly, will they still be annoyed in 2028/9?
Labour needs to hold tight on this decision, Hammond's u-turn on the self employed NI thing (I think !) was the beginning of the end for the May administration. If Labour capitulate on this it'll be the two child benefit cap next. Then there'll be an almighty uproar over the implied fuel duty hike, discipline will start to crumble and the govt will just look weak. They need to face down ASLEF over the LNER strike too.
Bus passes to state pension age is one to look out for.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Does it annoy a lot of people? As someone who got it and doesn't now it doesn't annoy me as I never deserved it. That must be true of many. And what about all the non pensioners. It won't annoy them that they don't have to subside me. I imagine they are chuffed.
More importantly, will they still be annoyed in 2028/9?
Labour needs to hold tight on this decision, Hammond's u-turn on the self employed NI thing (I think !) was the beginning of the end for the May administration. If Labour capitulate on this it'll be the two child benefit cap next. Then there'll be an almighty uproar over the implied fuel duty hike, discipline will start to crumble and the govt will just look weak. They need to face down ASLEF over the LNER strike too.
They've had enough time to think all this stuff through. I do hope they've thought it through, though.
Politically, they have to make - and make stick - hard decisions, early in their government and justify those decisions with incredible sensitivity. Make minor concessions where appropriate - and on their terms and timing.
Andrew Neil @afneil · 29m The average annual UK household energy bill to rise by £149 in October. Surely the government won’t let this happen. Labour promised to cut our fuel bills by £300 a year.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s apparent plans to endorse Donald J. Trump, which he has not yet announced, appear to have been pre-empted by his own lawyer. In a court filing in Pennsylvania, a lawyer for Kennedy said he was dropping his opposition to a state ballot challenge “as a result of today’s endorsement of Donald Trump for the office of the President of the United States.”
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
It should be noted also that the often quoted £300 is only for pensioners over 80, either living on their own or with their spouse and not £600 per pensioner couple
And, for all the bleating, pensioners have had an inflation-busting 20 percent increase in the last two years. This just claws some of the windfall back.
And bottom line- HMG is broke, thanks to decisions taken by Team 2019-24. Thanks guys.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
It should be noted also that the often quoted £300 is only for pensioners over 80, either living on their own or with their spouse and not £600 per pensioner couple
And, for all the bleating, pensioners have had an inflation-busting 20 percent increase in the last two years. This just claws some of the windfall back.
And bottom line- HMG is broke, thanks to decisions taken by Team 2019-24. Thanks guys.
Just in fairness can you quote just how much the state pension is
And yes the country is broke caused by covid and the war in Ukraine and for as bad as Johnson was at least he lifted the covid restrictions long before Starmer or Drakeford wanted which would have made things even worse
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
so what - 4 years till the next election
That might be the case but the policy decision gives an open goal to the Tories in the future .
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Does it annoy a lot of people? As someone who got it and doesn't now it doesn't annoy me as I never deserved it. That must be true of many. And what about call the non pensioners. It won't annoy them that they don't vhave to subside me. I imagine they are chuffed.
Never underestimate the feeling of hurt that a lot of people suffer when they think the government has taken something away from them that they feel entitled to.
A lot of pensioners on decent incomes will be able to rationalise it, but many can’t, and they see it as something that they deserve that has been taken away from them. The fact that the energy price cap has increased will only serve to annoy them further.
You neglect it has also been taken for many that have not got decent incomes
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
I would point out that it was actually a Labour bung for the pensioner vote.
Brown browbeat Cameron into keeping it during the online debates in 2010.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Does it annoy a lot of people? As someone who got it and doesn't now it doesn't annoy me as I never deserved it. That must be true of many. And what about all the non pensioners. It won't annoy them that they don't have to subside me. I imagine they are chuffed.
The non pensioners may have parents or grandparents affected.
This is an important point as 'Reeves took Grandma's winter fuel allowance to pay train drivers a huge increase in wages' is quite toxic
Youthful anti-pensioners don't seem to realise that Reeves has taken the WFA away from them, too. In fact they stand to lose far more than existing pensioners as it's unlikely to be restored in time for their old age. The French seem to understand this better than the British as any curtailment of state pensions brings everyone out on the streets - not just current recipients.
Oh give over, we were never going to get those benefits anyway. They're completely unaffordable and would inevitably be cut, the idea its going to be available in the future is as fanciful as the idea of free university education for our generation and younger.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
Point of order
It was not a Tory bung but was introduced by Gordon Brown in 1997 who as far as I know is a Labour politician
Two days later, Moreno’s campaign spent about $17,000 at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort, and then followed up by spending an additional $79,000 the next month – making him one of the Florida club’s top political spenders.
He wasn’t alone. With glitzy Mar-a-Lago fundraisers, stays at Trump’s hotels, and flights on the former president’s private jet, Republican candidates and political groups are on track to spend more on Trump’s businesses this year than any year since 2016, according to a CNN analysis of federal campaign finance data.
Trump himself has been the biggest spender, both this year and over the last decade. Between his three presidential campaigns, Trump and associated political groups have funneled more than $28 million in campaign donations to his businesses – helping convert the enthusiasm of his political supporters into personal profit.
Other Republicans have followed suit, spending millions at Trump’s properties in an apparent attempt to curry favor with the former president and signal their allegiance to him to GOP voters.
Some of the candidates who’ve spent the most money on Trump businesses in recent years have been new politicians who won the former president’s endorsement despite a lack of past electoral experience or success, including Moreno, former Georgia Senate candidate Herschel Walker and Arizona Senate hopeful Kari Lake...
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
The result oop north where Reform grabbed lots of votes was less pretty for the Blues.
Have to swing right.....
Oh, come on. Do you really think that Refuk would have had a significant impact on the result had they stood in... Abbots Langley?!
This is classic well-to-do commuter belt territory, and is actually inside the M25 despite being in the Three Rivers LA (the bit on the other side of the motorway is Kings Langley - no, I don't know who stole the apostrophes).
It's possibly the least-fertile Refuk territory you could imagine. The Tories could normally expect to win there in a good year, but only did so this time round because of some sort of drama within the Lib Dem ranks.
If they do swing right, this is exactly the sort of seat they can forget about ever winning again.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Does it annoy a lot of people? As someone who got it and doesn't now it doesn't annoy me as I never deserved it. That must be true of many. And what about all the non pensioners. It won't annoy them that they don't have to subside me. I imagine they are chuffed.
More importantly, will they still be annoyed in 2028/9?
Labour needs to hold tight on this decision, Hammond's u-turn on the self employed NI thing (I think !) was the beginning of the end for the May administration. If Labour capitulate on this it'll be the two child benefit cap next. Then there'll be an almighty uproar over the implied fuel duty hike, discipline will start to crumble and the govt will just look weak. They need to face down ASLEF over the LNER strike too.
They've had enough time to think all this stuff through. I do hope they've thought it through, though.
Politically, they have to make - and make stick - hard decisions, early in their government and justify those decisions with incredible sensitivity. Make minor concessions where appropriate - and on their terms and timing.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
so what - 4 years till the next election
They'll be lucky to run for 4 full years.
Nah, they don't have a idle fuckwit like Johnson as a leader who is just gonna throw their majority away.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Does it annoy a lot of people? As someone who got it and doesn't now it doesn't annoy me as I never deserved it. That must be true of many. And what about all the non pensioners. It won't annoy them that they don't have to subside me. I imagine they are chuffed.
More importantly, will they still be annoyed in 2028/9?
Labour needs to hold tight on this decision, Hammond's u-turn on the self employed NI thing (I think !) was the beginning of the end for the May administration. If Labour capitulate on this it'll be the two child benefit cap next. Then there'll be an almighty uproar over the implied fuel duty hike, discipline will start to crumble and the govt will just look weak. They need to face down ASLEF over the LNER strike too.
They've had enough time to think all this stuff through. I do hope they've thought it through, though.
Politically, they have to make - and make stick - hard decisions, early in their government and justify those decisions with incredible sensitivity. Make minor concessions where appropriate - and on their terms and timing.
My advice to Reeves?
Go bold, or go home.
Preferably the latter.
You will be disappointed in that - Starmer may be many things but he is not Liz Truss
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
Agree, see also BigG's response and others.
The difference is when it was introduced, heating your house was a pretty minor expense if you were on even a low to mid salary. The last couple of years, it's been very different. As I say, why should my tax money subsidise a single pensioner at 68 rather than a single mum with three kids working full time?
The unfairness of the bung has risen as the costs of heating have risen for ordinary working age families over the last two or three years.
If I'm going to be taxed to subsidise other people's heating bills, I would rather it go to working parents on low incomes than pensioners (who may be on very high incomes), tbh. Means test it by all means, and let's not let older people on low incomes go without.
But the current free-for-all (provided you're old enough) needed to end.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
so what - 4 years till the next election
They'll be lucky to run for 4 full years.
Nah, they don't have a idle fuckwit like Johnson as a leader who is just gonna throw their majority away.
A year or so more of the Starmtroopers 'reforming' zeal and we'll all be wishing he were that idle. He's running the country into the ground. If you find the thought that he's getting up early and taking everything very seriously whilst doing so to be a comfort, that's great.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Does it annoy a lot of people? As someone who got it and doesn't now it doesn't annoy me as I never deserved it. That must be true of many. And what about all the non pensioners. It won't annoy them that they don't have to subside me. I imagine they are chuffed.
More importantly, will they still be annoyed in 2028/9?
Labour needs to hold tight on this decision, Hammond's u-turn on the self employed NI thing (I think !) was the beginning of the end for the May administration. If Labour capitulate on this it'll be the two child benefit cap next. Then there'll be an almighty uproar over the implied fuel duty hike, discipline will start to crumble and the govt will just look weak. They need to face down ASLEF over the LNER strike too.
They've had enough time to think all this stuff through. I do hope they've thought it through, though.
Politically, they have to make - and make stick - hard decisions, early in their government and justify those decisions with incredible sensitivity. Make minor concessions where appropriate - and on their terms and timing.
My advice to Reeves?
Go bold, or go home.
Preferably the latter.
You will be disappointed in that - Starmer may be many things but he is not Liz Truss
It'll be a couple of nasty, brutish years. The longer they stay in, the more permanently they'll destroy the Labour Party, so that's a plus.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
so what - 4 years till the next election
They'll be lucky to run for 4 full years.
Are you expecting 100 defections or by-election losses?
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Does it annoy a lot of people? As someone who got it and doesn't now it doesn't annoy me as I never deserved it. That must be true of many. And what about all the non pensioners. It won't annoy them that they don't have to subside me. I imagine they are chuffed.
More importantly, will they still be annoyed in 2028/9?
Labour needs to hold tight on this decision, Hammond's u-turn on the self employed NI thing (I think !) was the beginning of the end for the May administration. If Labour capitulate on this it'll be the two child benefit cap next. Then there'll be an almighty uproar over the implied fuel duty hike, discipline will start to crumble and the govt will just look weak. They need to face down ASLEF over the LNER strike too.
My apparently unpopular view is winter fuel allowance should be means tested as the new government have done, if not dropped entirely, but the 2 child cap should be removed.
Welfare should in my view aim to alleviate maximum hardship at the lowest cost to the public purse. It shouldn't be a nice to have. I do accept people likely have higher expenses in winter to pay for fuel, it isn't just age related and in many cases WFA wasn't alleviating any hardship at all. Meanwhile it actually costs money to feed and clothe children, which is a problem when families are dependent on the state.
The beginning of a parliament is a good time to do things that are unpopular but right. This government has done one such thing. It should do another.
Meanwhile today's recommendation is Donald Trump's magnificent speech in Cochise County, Arizona. Aimed at upstaging the DNC it seemed to have an audience in single-figures and a performance so lack-lustre that even Fox News found it too dull to stick with. The same old act but eight years old now. Delivered by a 78-year old man who struggles to complete any one line of thought. They tried rallies, then they tried press conferences, now its tiny venues with himself framed by cops. Not an obviously good look for a convicted felon.
This US election has always been the Reps to lose. It seems they might actually achieve that and for much the same reason as 4 years ago. A terrible candidate.
Just back from Old Trafford. There wasan ageing posh lefty in the seat behind me. Anyone on here? Aside from that, a very satisfactory day. Got to see a century, good play from both sides and an extra half hour at the end.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
Wherever has the most green land can support more new homes.
The idea of scaling by population is insane, so you want to pile new homes on top of existing ones do you?
Building futuristic cities would be a better objective than allowing suburban sprawl all over the countryside.
If people want that, then great, and they will choose that. But if people want a house and garden of their own then why should we force people high into slums with no open spaces and no private gardens of their own?
Sprawling into the countryside is far superior, it means everyone can have a house of their own, with a garden of their own.
Remarkable how many people propose this who live in a house with a garden themselves. Really mean they want plebs to be in cities and not spoiling their view.
If you compare the cost of a one-bed tenement in Edinburgh with a detached house in Bathgate, it's clear what people want.
Not really, that's just comparing Edinburgh with Bathgate.
Comparing like for like, its clear that everywhere people prefer detached houses over semis, semis over terraces, and terraces over flats. That's consistent everywhere.
Let people build what they want and let them choose. If they choose flats then great and if they choose homes then great, let them have what they want.
I would like a mansion personally.
Please cater for me too.
Good.
You should be able to build a mansion wherever you want in my eyes, so long as its your land.
If that's what you want, then what's stopping you?
All the other selfish arseholes trying to build their own mansions
No that's not a problem, there's plenty of land out there that's not been developed.
You're not really interested in housing people at all. For you it's all about how much of the countryside you can cover in concrete.
I couldn't care less how much of the countryside gets covered in concrete.
I want everyone to be able to have a house of their own. Not a shitty flat.
Countryside is a secondary concern. Its a place that houses could be built on, that haven't been.
There is a total contradiction between your aesthetic dislike of "shitty flats" and your advocacy of indefinite population growth.
Not really since we have the entire population in less than 5% of England's land and over 80% of people live in houses, not flats.
Everyone could afford a house and we could quite literally double our population and we still wouldn't have covered most of the countryside with housing.
How big would London be if everyone lived in a house?
They already tried this in the capital of Ireland and the city just kept Dublin.
Wherever has the most green land can support more new homes.
The idea of scaling by population is insane, so you want to pile new homes on top of existing ones do you?
Building futuristic cities would be a better objective than allowing suburban sprawl all over the countryside.
If people want that, then great, and they will choose that. But if people want a house and garden of their own then why should we force people high into slums with no open spaces and no private gardens of their own?
Sprawling into the countryside is far superior, it means everyone can have a house of their own, with a garden of their own.
Remarkable how many people propose this who live in a house with a garden themselves. Really mean they want plebs to be in cities and not spoiling their view.
If you compare the cost of a one-bed tenement in Edinburgh with a detached house in Bathgate, it's clear what people want.
Not really, that's just comparing Edinburgh with Bathgate.
Comparing like for like, its clear that everywhere people prefer detached houses over semis, semis over terraces, and terraces over flats. That's consistent everywhere.
Let people build what they want and let them choose. If they choose flats then great and if they choose homes then great, let them have what they want.
I would like a mansion personally.
Please cater for me too.
Good.
You should be able to build a mansion wherever you want in my eyes, so long as its your land.
If that's what you want, then what's stopping you?
All the other selfish arseholes trying to build their own mansions
No that's not a problem, there's plenty of land out there that's not been developed.
You're not really interested in housing people at all. For you it's all about how much of the countryside you can cover in concrete.
I couldn't care less how much of the countryside gets covered in concrete.
I want everyone to be able to have a house of their own. Not a shitty flat.
Countryside is a secondary concern. Its a place that houses could be built on, that haven't been.
There is a total contradiction between your aesthetic dislike of "shitty flats" and your advocacy of indefinite population growth.
Not really since we have the entire population in less than 5% of England's land and over 80% of people live in houses, not flats.
Everyone could afford a house and we could quite literally double our population and we still wouldn't have covered most of the countryside with housing.
How big would London be if everyone lived in a house?
They already tried this in the capital of Ireland and the city just kept Dublin.
Is it true that if you invest in gold sovereigns you don't have to pay capital gains tax?
(opens Microsoft Edge browser, clicks on Copilot symbol)
You Hello Copilot. Is it true that if you purchase British gold sovereigns you don't have to pay capital gains tax when you sell them?
Copilot Yes, that’s correct! British gold sovereigns, along with other bullion coins produced by The Royal Mint such as Britannia coins, are exempt from Capital Gains Tax (CGT) in the UK. This is because they are considered legal tender123. This makes them a popular choice for investors looking to avoid CGT on their gold investments.
Is it true that if you invest in gold sovereigns you don't have to pay capital gains tax?
(opens Microsoft Edge browser, clicks on Copilot symbol)
You Hello Copilot. Is it true that if you purchase British gold sovereigns you don't have to pay capital gains tax when you sell them?
Copilot Yes, that’s correct! British gold sovereigns, along with other bullion coins produced by The Royal Mint such as Britannia coins, are exempt from Capital Gains Tax (CGT) in the UK. This is because they are considered legal tender123. This makes them a popular choice for investors looking to avoid CGT on their gold investments.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
Yes I'm sure there's lots of complaining to MPs from pensioners with lots of time on their hands. But Labour didn't win this election on that back of pensioners voters. Nor or a universal bung to pensioners ethically the right thing to do.
There will be plenty who either support or just ignore this policy. Myself included.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Does it annoy a lot of people? As someone who got it and doesn't now it doesn't annoy me as I never deserved it. That must be true of many. And what about all the non pensioners. It won't annoy them that they don't have to subside me. I imagine they are chuffed.
It fails on a number of fronts , it saves very little, is terrible politics, some pensioners will struggle and we’ve just had the energy cap going up . Reeves should dump the policy and find the money elsewhere.
This was my thinking.
My mum doesn't need it, always used to make a point of donating it to charity, and it isn't going to make a huge difference to her life. But she is very annoyed and won't stop banging on about it.
It's equal to what? About a weeks worth of pension payments.
And it's not like it's part of a simplification or streamlining of the system because it's still going to exist, but means tested so there will be more admin, more appeal, more edge cases where people narrowly qualify or not for Pensions Credit so more work to be done.
The correct path would've been to scrap it altogether AT THE SAME TIME AS A SUBSTANTIAL SCHEDULED INCREASE TO THE STATE PENSION, then it could be sold as a simplification of the system and nobody would be losing out.
Wherever has the most green land can support more new homes.
The idea of scaling by population is insane, so you want to pile new homes on top of existing ones do you?
Building futuristic cities would be a better objective than allowing suburban sprawl all over the countryside.
If people want that, then great, and they will choose that. But if people want a house and garden of their own then why should we force people high into slums with no open spaces and no private gardens of their own?
Sprawling into the countryside is far superior, it means everyone can have a house of their own, with a garden of their own.
Remarkable how many people propose this who live in a house with a garden themselves. Really mean they want plebs to be in cities and not spoiling their view.
If you compare the cost of a one-bed tenement in Edinburgh with a detached house in Bathgate, it's clear what people want.
Not really, that's just comparing Edinburgh with Bathgate.
Comparing like for like, its clear that everywhere people prefer detached houses over semis, semis over terraces, and terraces over flats. That's consistent everywhere.
Let people build what they want and let them choose. If they choose flats then great and if they choose homes then great, let them have what they want.
I would like a mansion personally.
Please cater for me too.
Good.
You should be able to build a mansion wherever you want in my eyes, so long as its your land.
If that's what you want, then what's stopping you?
All the other selfish arseholes trying to build their own mansions
No that's not a problem, there's plenty of land out there that's not been developed.
You're not really interested in housing people at all. For you it's all about how much of the countryside you can cover in concrete.
I couldn't care less how much of the countryside gets covered in concrete.
I want everyone to be able to have a house of their own. Not a shitty flat.
Countryside is a secondary concern. Its a place that houses could be built on, that haven't been.
Given that about 80% of farmland is used to raise animals: grazing, barns and agricultural land used to grow crops to feed the animals, you being a carnivore shouldn't be keen to concrete over the countryside.
I've never once advocated we concrete over the entire countryside, just as much of it as people want to live on.
We currently have [from memory] 70% of land used for agriculture and 5% for housing.
If we changed that to 65% and 10% respectively we could double the amount of land for housing, while reducing the land for agriculture by less than 10%. More realistically if my policies were adapted I expect we might go to something like 68% and 7% which would be enough.
Oh and we can import meat easier than we can import land/houses.
Britain really shouldn't be importing basic meats.
If I take one of our pigs and we slaughter it and butcher it and we turn it into sausages and we sell it here, it costs us 74p. "If I buy imported pig meat it is 18p. So, something is wrong with the food system in this country." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp35vzewv1wo
Exactly.
Two elements impact the cost of pig meat
1. Food Conversion Ratio / Input costs.. essentially how much is the calorific output for a given cost of input. We’ve chosen to ban certain cheap and productivity enhancing inputs (eg hormones, beta agonists, prophylactic antibiotics) for other policy reasons
2. Animal Welfare. We’ve chosen various minimum standards in both raising of animals (eg stall sizes) and slaughter. These all come at a cost. This is a policy choice - but one I believe is close to your heart
Basically we’ve chosen expensive, high quality food raised in a relatively humane way. Other choices are also available
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
The key there however is wealthier pensioners, where as if its based on entitlement to pension credit you will be docking it from pensioners who's total income is 11,500 if single or 17500 for a couple
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
The key there however is wealthier pensioners, where as if its based on entitlement to pension credit you will be docking it from pensioners who's total income is 11,500 if single or 17500 for a couple
The issue here is those in the middle between pensioner credits and pensioners just above the threshold but not remotely considered wealthy and there are a lot of them
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
It should be noted also that the often quoted £300 is only for pensioners over 80, either living on their own or with their spouse and not £600 per pensioner couple
And, for all the bleating, pensioners have had an inflation-busting 20 percent increase in the last two years. This just claws some of the windfall back.
And bottom line- HMG is broke, thanks to decisions taken by Team 2019-24. Thanks guys.
Yes , brain of Britain , so broke they are throwing inflation busting pay rises to all and sundry, how stupid can someone be. Som efecking windfall from the smallest pension in the developed world despite contributing for 50 years in the main
In other "what are dumbosaurus's bets" news (I am being fairly dilligent with this so in a few years I can point at all my posts and look fucking awesome):
Now out of my Jenrick "hate lay". I still hate the bastard though and probs should have kept it.
Remain long Cleverly and Stride.
Won't lay my wonderous Kemi in a market this thin. It would be rational to but I would influence the price which could itself feed into expectations, and I want her to be our next PM, and it's my money so I can manage it how I like.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
Nutjob , a mum of 3 on minimum wage will get more benefits than a state pensioner gets, you halfwitted cretin.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
The key there however is wealthier pensioners, where as if its based on entitlement to pension credit you will be docking it from pensioners who's total income is 11,500 if single or 17500 for a couple
The issue here is those in the middle between pensioner credits and pensioners just above the threshold but not remotely considered wealthy and there are a lot of them
G the morons on here would say they should be eating cake as they debate their wine cellars, mansions and first class travel.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Does it annoy a lot of people? As someone who got it and doesn't now it doesn't annoy me as I never deserved it. That must be true of many. And what about all the non pensioners. It won't annoy them that they don't have to subside me. I imagine they are chuffed.
More importantly, will they still be annoyed in 2028/9?
Labour needs to hold tight on this decision, Hammond's u-turn on the self employed NI thing (I think !) was the beginning of the end for the May administration. If Labour capitulate on this it'll be the two child benefit cap next. Then there'll be an almighty uproar over the implied fuel duty hike, discipline will start to crumble and the govt will just look weak. They need to face down ASLEF over the LNER strike too.
They've had enough time to think all this stuff through. I do hope they've thought it through, though.
Politically, they have to make - and make stick - hard decisions, early in their government and justify those decisions with incredible sensitivity. Make minor concessions where appropriate - and on their terms and timing.
My advice to Reeves?
Go bold, or go home.
I am reminded of Nick Clegg advising his MPs to "dip their hands into the blood" by voting for tuition fees, an action which wrecked his party for a decade. Even Thatcher, lauded for her strong beliefs, was careful to not confront the miners in term one.
You have to persuade people of a course of action, and it helps if you do it beforehand. The Ming Vase strategy won Starmer the election but has hobbled him in Govt. He's not in a position to go bold.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
Nutjob , a mum of 3 on minimum wage will get more benefits than a state pensioner gets, you halfwitted cretin.
Wanker. Can't you read?
Why should my tax money go to subsidise one not the other?
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
Nutjob , a mum of 3 on minimum wage will get more benefits than a state pensioner gets, you halfwitted cretin.
The "malcolmg" character is a parody being run by a group of PPE undergrads, isn't it ?
This story tells you an awful lot about how tough drug development is. Ozempic could have happened decades earlier… but didn’t, when Pfizer pulled its funding.
Drug Development Failure: how GLP-1 development was abandoned in 1990
https://muse.jhu.edu/pub/1/article/936036/summary Many factors determine whether and when a class of therapeutic agents will be successfully developed and brought to market, and historians of science, entrepreneurs, drug developers, and clinicians should be interested in accounts of both successes and failures. Successes induce many participants and observers to document them, whereas failed efforts are often lost to history, in part because involved parties are typically unmotivated to document their failures. The GLP-1 class of drugs for diabetes and obesity have emerged over the past decade as clinical and financial blockbusters, perhaps soon becoming the highest single source of revenue for the pharmaceutical industry (Berk 2023). In that context, it is instructive to tell the story of the first commercial effort to develop this class of drugs for metabolic disease, and how, despite remarkable early success, the work was abandoned in 1990. Told by a key participant in the effort, this story documents history that would otherwise be lost and suggests a number of lessons about drug development that remain relevant today...
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
another half wit who must live in a shoebox. Poor people tend to be in crap houses and pay more like 300 a month in winter or freeze. Hard to believe the selfish barstewards on here.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Does it annoy a lot of people? As someone who got it and doesn't now it doesn't annoy me as I never deserved it. That must be true of many. And what about all the non pensioners. It won't annoy them that they don't have to subside me. I imagine they are chuffed.
More importantly, will they still be annoyed in 2028/9?
Labour needs to hold tight on this decision, Hammond's u-turn on the self employed NI thing (I think !) was the beginning of the end for the May administration. If Labour capitulate on this it'll be the two child benefit cap next. Then there'll be an almighty uproar over the implied fuel duty hike, discipline will start to crumble and the govt will just look weak. They need to face down ASLEF over the LNER strike too.
They've had enough time to think all this stuff through. I do hope they've thought it through, though.
Politically, they have to make - and make stick - hard decisions, early in their government and justify those decisions with incredible sensitivity. Make minor concessions where appropriate - and on their terms and timing.
My advice to Reeves?
Go bold, or go home.
I am reminded of Nick Clegg advising his MPs to "dip their hands into the blood" by voting for tuition fees, an action which wrecked his party for a decade. Even Thatcher, lauded for her strong beliefs, was careful to not confront the miners in term one.
You have to persuade people of a course of action, and it helps if you do it beforehand. The Ming Vase strategy won Starmer the election but has hobbled him in Govt. He's not in a position to go bold.
Completely disagree. Starmer needs to be bold. Country faces huge challenges, and he has a massive majority.
People will expect solutions and delivery, not excuses.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
so what - 4 years till the next election
Which is a bit early to start burning political capital on things like this - especially if, as suggested upthread, it actually costs the country money.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
Okay, taking it as only £200 - that's still ten times more than the long-term sick or disabled get, ten times more than we give to unemployed parents of young children. Ten times more!
And they got it even if they had other income besides their state pension, they got it even it it was a warm winter. Ten times more!
It's crazy, complete madness. How could that ever have been justified?!
And yet some have the cheek to complain about it ending. The level of greed and entitlement on display is beyond shocking.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
Nutjob , a mum of 3 on minimum wage will get more benefits than a state pensioner gets, you halfwitted cretin.
Wanker. Can't you read?
Why should my tax money go to subsidise one not the other?
arseholes just got to be arses, hopefully you need help someday you selfish clown.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
Nutjob , a mum of 3 on minimum wage will get more benefits than a state pensioner gets, you halfwitted cretin.
The "malcolmg" character is a parody being run by a group of PPE undergrads, isn't it ?
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
The key there however is wealthier pensioners, where as if its based on entitlement to pension credit you will be docking it from pensioners who's total income is 11,500 if single or 17500 for a couple
The issue here is those in the middle between pensioner credits and pensioners just above the threshold but not remotely considered wealthy and there are a lot of them
G the morons on here would say they should be eating cake as they debate their wine cellars, mansions and first class travel.
It is clear there is misinformation being used not least that all pensioners receive a £300 WFA which is incorrect by some distance and an opinion that most pensioners are wealthy when that is also misleading
The state pension, despite the rises in the last two years, is low and in some ways it is unpleasant to see such a pile on on pensioners who will have worked and paid NI for 50 years or more and struggle to heat their homes in winter
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
The key there however is wealthier pensioners, where as if its based on entitlement to pension credit you will be docking it from pensioners who's total income is 11,500 if single or 17500 for a couple
The issue here is those in the middle between pensioner credits and pensioners just above the threshold but not remotely considered wealthy and there are a lot of them
G the morons on here would say they should be eating cake as they debate their wine cellars, mansions and first class travel.
It is clear there is misinformation being used not least that all pensioners receive a £300 WFA which is incorrect by some distance and an opinion that most pensioners are wealthy when that is also misleading
The state pension, despite the rises in the last two years, is low and in some ways it is unpleasant to see such a pile on on pensioners who will have worked and paid NI for 50 years or more and struggle to heat their homes in winter
What annoys me a bit about the Winter Fuel allowance is that it assumes absolutely everyones fuel bills are higher in the Winter.
Mine are slightly higher in the Summer. In the place we lived previously - in a very safe Labour seat - the bills were substantially higher in the Summer.
It rarely gets so cold in the Winter that we need to put on any kind of heater. But Summers are absolutely sweltering and we run fans a lot, as well as having to turn down the temperatures of the fridge and freezer. Coming into the building and walking up the stairs hits you like entering a sauna or getting off a plane in Dubai, so we use far more fuel on cooling than on heating.
I suspect this is true of many 'middle' flats above the second floor with limited window coverage.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
Okay, taking it as only £200 - that's still ten times more than the long-term sick or disabled get, ten times more than we give to unemployed parents of young children. Ten times more!
And they got it even if they had other income besides their state pension, they got it even it it was a warm winter. Ten times more!
It's crazy, complete madness. How could that ever have been justified?!
And yet some have the cheek to complain about it ending. The level of greed and entitlement on display is beyond shocking.
Just a minute
It is a one off payment of £200 to £300 per pensioner household to offset 6 months of winter fuel bills for the elderly who are likely to suffer serious even life threatening health issues without help and all the additional costs that would be incurred by the NHS
Also do you even know how much the state pension is
The optics are terrible for Labour and it will be interesting to see how this plays out as we go into winter and the energy rises comes along
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
The key there however is wealthier pensioners, where as if its based on entitlement to pension credit you will be docking it from pensioners who's total income is 11,500 if single or 17500 for a couple
The issue here is those in the middle between pensioner credits and pensioners just above the threshold but not remotely considered wealthy and there are a lot of them
G the morons on here would say they should be eating cake as they debate their wine cellars, mansions and first class travel.
It is clear there is misinformation being used not least that all pensioners receive a £300 WFA which is incorrect by some distance and an opinion that most pensioners are wealthy when that is also misleading
The state pension, despite the rises in the last two years, is low and in some ways it is unpleasant to see such a pile on on pensioners who will have worked and paid NI for 50 years or more and struggle to heat their homes in winter
Ee, Enid, I've paid me stamp !
As someone who's advised professionally on pensions for 30 years, it winds me up something rotten to hear the old cliche rolled out again and again about how low the UK state pension is. It's middle of the rankings in Europe, without even taking into account the fact the UK has traditionally had massively more substantial funded occupational pension provision.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
The key there however is wealthier pensioners, where as if its based on entitlement to pension credit you will be docking it from pensioners who's total income is 11,500 if single or 17500 for a couple
The issue here is those in the middle between pensioner credits and pensioners just above the threshold but not remotely considered wealthy and there are a lot of them
G the morons on here would say they should be eating cake as they debate their wine cellars, mansions and first class travel.
It is clear there is misinformation being used not least that all pensioners receive a £300 WFA which is incorrect by some distance and an opinion that most pensioners are wealthy when that is also misleading
The state pension, despite the rises in the last two years, is low and in some ways it is unpleasant to see such a pile on on pensioners who will have worked and paid NI for 50 years or more and struggle to heat their homes in winter
FiveThirtyEight released a new model today, showing Harris with a 58% chance to win. But it's clearly a very different model and I think it's important to hear more about the differences.
The previous model made Biden the favorite bc it gave 4:1 weight to fundamentals > polls -- a view that would make Trump stronger today and perhaps still ahead. Now it gives 4:1 weight to polls > fundamentals -- which would have made Trump a large favorite before.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
The key there however is wealthier pensioners, where as if its based on entitlement to pension credit you will be docking it from pensioners who's total income is 11,500 if single or 17500 for a couple
The issue here is those in the middle between pensioner credits and pensioners just above the threshold but not remotely considered wealthy and there are a lot of them
G the morons on here would say they should be eating cake as they debate their wine cellars, mansions and first class travel.
It is clear there is misinformation being used not least that all pensioners receive a £300 WFA which is incorrect by some distance and an opinion that most pensioners are wealthy when that is also misleading
The state pension, despite the rises in the last two years, is low and in some ways it is unpleasant to see such a pile on on pensioners who will have worked and paid NI for 50 years or more and struggle to heat their homes in winter
Ee, Enid, I've paid me stamp !
As someone who's advised professionally on pensions for 30 years, it winds me up something rotten to hear the old cliche rolled out again and again about how low the UK state pension is. It's middle of the rankings in Europe, without even taking into account the fact the UK has traditionally had massively more substantial funded occupational pension provision.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
Nutjob , a mum of 3 on minimum wage will get more benefits than a state pensioner gets, you halfwitted cretin.
Wanker. Can't you read?
Why should my tax money go to subsidise one not the other?
arseholes just got to be arses, hopefully you need help someday you selfish clown.
Does a 70 year old with a million quid in assets need help paying their heating bills, fool?
As I say, above, but I will repeat if you're too thick to read. I'm happy to pay for pensioners on a means tested basis who really need it, but the blanket coverage was absurd.
There are others more deserving, e.g. single mums with kids, who I'd rather subsidise, than pensioners on decent incomes with no dependents.
FiveThirtyEight released a new model today, showing Harris with a 58% chance to win. But it's clearly a very different model and I think it's important to hear more about the differences.
The previous model made Biden the favorite bc it gave 4:1 weight to fundamentals > polls -- a view that would make Trump stronger today and perhaps still ahead. Now it gives 4:1 weight to polls > fundamentals -- which would have made Trump a large favorite before.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
The key there however is wealthier pensioners, where as if its based on entitlement to pension credit you will be docking it from pensioners who's total income is 11,500 if single or 17500 for a couple
The issue here is those in the middle between pensioner credits and pensioners just above the threshold but not remotely considered wealthy and there are a lot of them
G the morons on here would say they should be eating cake as they debate their wine cellars, mansions and first class travel.
It is clear there is misinformation being used not least that all pensioners receive a £300 WFA which is incorrect by some distance and an opinion that most pensioners are wealthy when that is also misleading
The state pension, despite the rises in the last two years, is low and in some ways it is unpleasant to see such a pile on on pensioners who will have worked and paid NI for 50 years or more and struggle to heat their homes in winter
Ee, Enid, I've paid me stamp !
As someone who's advised professionally on pensions for 30 years, it winds me up something rotten to hear the old cliche rolled out again and again about how low the UK state pension is. It's middle of the rankings in Europe, without even taking into account the fact the UK has traditionally had massively more substantial funded occupational pension provision.
And yes, full state pension in the UK is about 115% of the cost of living on the latest figures I've seen.
Before we even take account of the levels of private pension provision our older generations tend to have, levels that younger generations will not enjoy.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
another half wit who must live in a shoebox. Poor people tend to be in crap houses and pay more like 300 a month in winter or freeze. Hard to believe the selfish barstewards on here.
That's simply not true. Poor people tend to live in rented accommodation, where there are minimum EPC standards.
The properties that are most expensive to heat are overwhelmingly owned outright, and are almost always significantly larger than average.
As per today's headlines, the median bill will be £143/month for electricity and heating combined. The Winter Fuel Payment covered 46% of the average pensioner's combined energy bill last year. Why?
I mean, pensions are protected by the triple lock which means they rise when inflation does, and then rise again the next year when incomes rise in response to inflation. Pensioners already get double bubble, why should they get almost half their fuel bill paid for them too?
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
The key there however is wealthier pensioners, where as if its based on entitlement to pension credit you will be docking it from pensioners who's total income is 11,500 if single or 17500 for a couple
The issue here is those in the middle between pensioner credits and pensioners just above the threshold but not remotely considered wealthy and there are a lot of them
G the morons on here would say they should be eating cake as they debate their wine cellars, mansions and first class travel.
It is clear there is misinformation being used not least that all pensioners receive a £300 WFA which is incorrect by some distance and an opinion that most pensioners are wealthy when that is also misleading
The state pension, despite the rises in the last two years, is low and in some ways it is unpleasant to see such a pile on on pensioners who will have worked and paid NI for 50 years or more and struggle to heat their homes in winter
Ee, Enid, I've paid me stamp !
As someone who's advised professionally on pensions for 30 years, it winds me up something rotten to hear the old cliche rolled out again and again about how low the UK state pension is. It's middle of the rankings in Europe, without even taking into account the fact the UK has traditionally had massively more substantial funded occupational pension provision.
And yes, full state pension in the UK is about 115% of the cost of living on the latest figures I've seen.
Before we even take account of the levels of private pension provision our older generations tend to have, levels that younger generations will not enjoy.
I would challenge you on your last paragraph as both private and public sector pension provision today is far better
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
The key there however is wealthier pensioners, where as if its based on entitlement to pension credit you will be docking it from pensioners who's total income is 11,500 if single or 17500 for a couple
The issue here is those in the middle between pensioner credits and pensioners just above the threshold but not remotely considered wealthy and there are a lot of them
G the morons on here would say they should be eating cake as they debate their wine cellars, mansions and first class travel.
It is clear there is misinformation being used not least that all pensioners receive a £300 WFA which is incorrect by some distance and an opinion that most pensioners are wealthy when that is also misleading
The state pension, despite the rises in the last two years, is low and in some ways it is unpleasant to see such a pile on on pensioners who will have worked and paid NI for 50 years or more and struggle to heat their homes in winter
Ee, Enid, I've paid me stamp !
As someone who's advised professionally on pensions for 30 years, it winds me up something rotten to hear the old cliche rolled out again and again about how low the UK state pension is. It's middle of the rankings in Europe, without even taking into account the fact the UK has traditionally had massively more substantial funded occupational pension provision.
And yes, full state pension in the UK is about 115% of the cost of living on the latest figures I've seen.
Before we even take account of the levels of private pension provision our older generations tend to have, levels that younger generations will not enjoy.
Full state pension is 11502 per year....so you think the cost of living is 10k? You can live on 192 a week when that will include council tax, electric, gas, transport, water, phone line, food, dentistry, clothing, prescriptions, and possibly rent
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
another half wit who must live in a shoebox. Poor people tend to be in crap houses and pay more like 300 a month in winter or freeze. Hard to believe the selfish barstewards on here.
That's simply not true. Poor people tend to live in rented accommodation, where there are minimum EPC standards.
The properties that are most expensive to heat are overwhelmingly owned outright, and are almost always significantly larger than average.
As per today's headlines, the median bill will be £143/month for electricity and heating combined. The Winter Fuel Payment covered 46% of the average pensioner's combined energy bill last year. Why?
I mean, pensions are protected by the triple lock which means they rise when inflation does, and then rise again the next year when incomes rise in response to inflation. Pensioners already get double bubble, why should they get almost half their fuel bill paid for them too?
With the greatest respect for most pensioners and their spouse they receive £200 towards their energy
On what planet are you on that thinks a pensioners annual energy bill is £400 or thereabout
As an 80 year old living with an 84 year old our energy bill last year was £1,680
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Does it annoy a lot of people? As someone who got it and doesn't now it doesn't annoy me as I never deserved it. That must be true of many. And what about all the non pensioners. It won't annoy them that they don't have to subside me. I imagine they are chuffed.
It fails on a number of fronts , it saves very little, is terrible politics, some pensioners will struggle and we’ve just had the energy cap going up . Reeves should dump the policy and find the money elsewhere.
This was my thinking.
My mum doesn't need it, always used to make a point of donating it to charity, and it isn't going to make a huge difference to her life. But she is very annoyed and won't stop banging on about it.
It's equal to what? About a weeks worth of pension payments.
And it's not like it's part of a simplification or streamlining of the system because it's still going to exist, but means tested so there will be more admin, more appeal, more edge cases where people narrowly qualify or not for Pensions Credit so more work to be done.
The correct path would've been to scrap it altogether AT THE SAME TIME AS A SUBSTANTIAL SCHEDULED INCREASE TO THE STATE PENSION, then it could be sold as a simplification of the system and nobody would be losing out.
Except them "losing out" is the entire bloody point.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
The key there however is wealthier pensioners, where as if its based on entitlement to pension credit you will be docking it from pensioners who's total income is 11,500 if single or 17500 for a couple
The issue here is those in the middle between pensioner credits and pensioners just above the threshold but not remotely considered wealthy and there are a lot of them
G the morons on here would say they should be eating cake as they debate their wine cellars, mansions and first class travel.
It is clear there is misinformation being used not least that all pensioners receive a £300 WFA which is incorrect by some distance and an opinion that most pensioners are wealthy when that is also misleading
The state pension, despite the rises in the last two years, is low and in some ways it is unpleasant to see such a pile on on pensioners who will have worked and paid NI for 50 years or more and struggle to heat their homes in winter
Ee, Enid, I've paid me stamp !
As someone who's advised professionally on pensions for 30 years, it winds me up something rotten to hear the old cliche rolled out again and again about how low the UK state pension is. It's middle of the rankings in Europe, without even taking into account the fact the UK has traditionally had massively more substantial funded occupational pension provision.
And yes, full state pension in the UK is about 115% of the cost of living on the latest figures I've seen.
Before we even take account of the levels of private pension provision our older generations tend to have, levels that younger generations will not enjoy.
Full state pension is 11502 per year....so you think the cost of living is 10k? You can live on 192 a week when that will include council tax, electric, gas, transport, water, phone line, food, dentistry, clothing, prescriptions, and possibly rent
Without rent or a mortgage?
Absolutely that's far more than the post-tax, post-rent/mortgage income that many families have.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
another half wit who must live in a shoebox. Poor people tend to be in crap houses and pay more like 300 a month in winter or freeze. Hard to believe the selfish barstewards on here.
That's simply not true. Poor people tend to live in rented accommodation, where there are minimum EPC standards.
The properties that are most expensive to heat are overwhelmingly owned outright, and are almost always significantly larger than average.
As per today's headlines, the median bill will be £143/month for electricity and heating combined. The Winter Fuel Payment covered 46% of the average pensioner's combined energy bill last year. Why?
I mean, pensions are protected by the triple lock which means they rise when inflation does, and then rise again the next year when incomes rise in response to inflation. Pensioners already get double bubble, why should they get almost half their fuel bill paid for them too?
Well show me a man that cant do math's
143 a month is 1716 a year....lets walk it through with you.....200/1716 * 100 = 11.65% how did you get to 46%
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
another half wit who must live in a shoebox. Poor people tend to be in crap houses and pay more like 300 a month in winter or freeze. Hard to believe the selfish barstewards on here.
That's simply not true. Poor people tend to live in rented accommodation, where there are minimum EPC standards.
The properties that are most expensive to heat are overwhelmingly owned outright, and are almost always significantly larger than average.
As per today's headlines, the median bill will be £143/month for electricity and heating combined. The Winter Fuel Payment covered 46% of the average pensioner's combined energy bill last year. Why?
I mean, pensions are protected by the triple lock which means they rise when inflation does, and then rise again the next year when incomes rise in response to inflation. Pensioners already get double bubble, why should they get almost half their fuel bill paid for them too?
Well show me a man that cant do math's
143 a month is 1716 a year....lets walk it through with you.....200/1716 * 100 = 11.65% how did you get to 46%
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
The key there however is wealthier pensioners, where as if its based on entitlement to pension credit you will be docking it from pensioners who's total income is 11,500 if single or 17500 for a couple
The issue here is those in the middle between pensioner credits and pensioners just above the threshold but not remotely considered wealthy and there are a lot of them
G the morons on here would say they should be eating cake as they debate their wine cellars, mansions and first class travel.
It is clear there is misinformation being used not least that all pensioners receive a £300 WFA which is incorrect by some distance and an opinion that most pensioners are wealthy when that is also misleading
The state pension, despite the rises in the last two years, is low and in some ways it is unpleasant to see such a pile on on pensioners who will have worked and paid NI for 50 years or more and struggle to heat their homes in winter
Ee, Enid, I've paid me stamp !
As someone who's advised professionally on pensions for 30 years, it winds me up something rotten to hear the old cliche rolled out again and again about how low the UK state pension is. It's middle of the rankings in Europe, without even taking into account the fact the UK has traditionally had massively more substantial funded occupational pension provision.
And yes, full state pension in the UK is about 115% of the cost of living on the latest figures I've seen.
Before we even take account of the levels of private pension provision our older generations tend to have, levels that younger generations will not enjoy.
I would challenge you on your last paragraph as both private and public sector pension provision today is far better
You what?
Today we're paying to provide for unfunded final salary pensions that were accrued but never paid for in the past, but are not eligible to get those ourselves.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
Nutjob , a mum of 3 on minimum wage will get more benefits than a state pensioner gets, you halfwitted cretin.
The "malcolmg" character is a parody being run by a group of PPE undergrads, isn't it ?
@malcolmg is most certainly non fictional and is a true Scot. He may actually be the mythical Only A True Scotsman as he frequently holds to his loyalties where other, perhaps saner, folk would have demurred. 😃
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
The key there however is wealthier pensioners, where as if its based on entitlement to pension credit you will be docking it from pensioners who's total income is 11,500 if single or 17500 for a couple
The issue here is those in the middle between pensioner credits and pensioners just above the threshold but not remotely considered wealthy and there are a lot of them
G the morons on here would say they should be eating cake as they debate their wine cellars, mansions and first class travel.
It is clear there is misinformation being used not least that all pensioners receive a £300 WFA which is incorrect by some distance and an opinion that most pensioners are wealthy when that is also misleading
The state pension, despite the rises in the last two years, is low and in some ways it is unpleasant to see such a pile on on pensioners who will have worked and paid NI for 50 years or more and struggle to heat their homes in winter
Ee, Enid, I've paid me stamp !
As someone who's advised professionally on pensions for 30 years, it winds me up something rotten to hear the old cliche rolled out again and again about how low the UK state pension is. It's middle of the rankings in Europe, without even taking into account the fact the UK has traditionally had massively more substantial funded occupational pension provision.
And yes, full state pension in the UK is about 115% of the cost of living on the latest figures I've seen.
Before we even take account of the levels of private pension provision our older generations tend to have, levels that younger generations will not enjoy.
Full state pension is 11502 per year....so you think the cost of living is 10k? You can live on 192 a week when that will include council tax, electric, gas, transport, water, phone line, food, dentistry, clothing, prescriptions, and possibly rent
Without rent or a mortgage?
Absolutely that's far more than the post-tax, post-rent/mortgage income that many families have.
25% of pensioners are not home owners outright...thats about 2.5 million pensioners still paying a mortgage or rent out of that 11k a year many of them won't be eligible for pension credit
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
another half wit who must live in a shoebox. Poor people tend to be in crap houses and pay more like 300 a month in winter or freeze. Hard to believe the selfish barstewards on here.
That's simply not true. Poor people tend to live in rented accommodation, where there are minimum EPC standards.
Minimum standards which are pretty much the lowest possible level anyway.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s apparent plans to endorse Donald J. Trump, which he has not yet announced, appear to have been pre-empted by his own lawyer. In a court filing in Pennsylvania, a lawyer for Kennedy said he was dropping his opposition to a state ballot challenge “as a result of today’s endorsement of Donald Trump for the office of the President of the United States.”
NY Times blog
Will make sod all difference either way IMO, despite the breathless RFK-Trumpian ramping on here.
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Perversely because Reeves has been forced into encouraging 800,000 pensioners who do not claim pension credit to do so, it could actually cost 4 billion more dwarfing the 1.5 billion saving
Furthermore, the optics are terrible and with the announcement of a 10% rise in energy costs in October and more predicted in January it is looking like a 'car crash' decision
Luckily though, they were only going at 20mph, so not too much damage done.
No idea what that has to do with the winter fuel payment
This from the Independent has though
‘Disaster’:
Labour urged to U-turn on scrapping universal winter fuel payment after energy price cap jumps
Treasury deputy: Labour didn't plan winter fuel allowance cuts before election
Sir Keir Starmer has been urged to review his decision to scrap winter fuel payments for 10m pensioners after the regulator Ofgem announced household energy bills will rise by £150 in October.
The prime minister has been warned the double hit will lead to disaster for pensioners on low and modest incomes or living in vulnerable circumstances due to ill health.
Analysis shows energy bills this winter will be the highest on record for older people who previously received the winter fuel payment, worth up to £300.
Campaigners and charities, as well as Tory and Labour politicians, have called on the PM to change course
Since being introduced in 1997, the winter fuel payment has been available to all pensioners, regardless of income.
There have previously been calls to make it means-tested to prevent taxpayer cash going to wealthier pensioners who are less likely to be struggling with bills.
Newstatesman magazine this weekend has excoriating piece on the removal of "Gordon's" winter fuel allowance.
Quote after quote from backbench Lab MPs about the deluge of letters they have had on this, the being stopped in supermarket and berated etc. One describes it as "suicidal" and awful politics. Focus groups quoted which tear into the policy.
It's a f*cking disaster and it is only August.
Winter is coming...
I'm sorry, but where's my winter fuel allowance? Why should I freeze my tits off in December paying taxes so a 68 year old can enjoy a nice toasty house?
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
It wasn't always a Tory bung for the pensioner vote.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
I was genuinely astonished to find out how much it was. I used to think it was like the Cold Weather Payment, which bungs twenty quid or so to people on benefits whenever temperatures go below zero for a week or more. And, sure, we should be a bit more generous than that to the elderly because they feel the cold more.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
You seem to think it is £300 to every pensioner which is quite simply wrong
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
The key there however is wealthier pensioners, where as if its based on entitlement to pension credit you will be docking it from pensioners who's total income is 11,500 if single or 17500 for a couple
The issue here is those in the middle between pensioner credits and pensioners just above the threshold but not remotely considered wealthy and there are a lot of them
G the morons on here would say they should be eating cake as they debate their wine cellars, mansions and first class travel.
It is clear there is misinformation being used not least that all pensioners receive a £300 WFA which is incorrect by some distance and an opinion that most pensioners are wealthy when that is also misleading
The state pension, despite the rises in the last two years, is low and in some ways it is unpleasant to see such a pile on on pensioners who will have worked and paid NI for 50 years or more and struggle to heat their homes in winter
Ee, Enid, I've paid me stamp !
As someone who's advised professionally on pensions for 30 years, it winds me up something rotten to hear the old cliche rolled out again and again about how low the UK state pension is. It's middle of the rankings in Europe, without even taking into account the fact the UK has traditionally had massively more substantial funded occupational pension provision.
And yes, full state pension in the UK is about 115% of the cost of living on the latest figures I've seen.
Before we even take account of the levels of private pension provision our older generations tend to have, levels that younger generations will not enjoy.
Full state pension is 11502 per year....so you think the cost of living is 10k? You can live on 192 a week when that will include council tax, electric, gas, transport, water, phone line, food, dentistry, clothing, prescriptions, and possibly rent
Without rent or a mortgage?
Absolutely that's far more than the post-tax, post-rent/mortgage income that many families have.
25% of pensioners are not home owners outright...thats about 2.5 million pensioners still paying a mortgage or rent out of that 11k a year many of them won't be eligible for pension credit
So 75% of them are home owners outright?
And we were pissing away £200-£300 away on them for an electoral bung they had no need for?
She admitted to a) voting Labour last month; and b) already regretting it because of the winter fuel allowance thing.
Is this going to be commonplace?
The removal of the winter fuel allowance must rank as one of the worst political decisions ever made . It raises little and annoys an awful lot of people.
Reeves won’t u-turn but should .
Does it annoy a lot of people? As someone who got it and doesn't now it doesn't annoy me as I never deserved it. That must be true of many. And what about all the non pensioners. It won't annoy them that they don't have to subside me. I imagine they are chuffed.
More importantly, will they still be annoyed in 2028/9?
Labour needs to hold tight on this decision, Hammond's u-turn on the self employed NI thing (I think !) was the beginning of the end for the May administration. If Labour capitulate on this it'll be the two child benefit cap next. Then there'll be an almighty uproar over the implied fuel duty hike, discipline will start to crumble and the govt will just look weak. They need to face down ASLEF over the LNER strike too.
They've had enough time to think all this stuff through. I do hope they've thought it through, though.
Politically, they have to make - and make stick - hard decisions, early in their government and justify those decisions with incredible sensitivity. Make minor concessions where appropriate - and on their terms and timing.
My advice to Reeves?
Go bold, or go home.
I am reminded of Nick Clegg advising his MPs to "dip their hands into the blood" by voting for tuition fees, an action which wrecked his party for a decade. Even Thatcher, lauded for her strong beliefs, was careful to not confront the miners in term one.
You have to persuade people of a course of action, and it helps if you do it beforehand. The Ming Vase strategy won Starmer the election but has hobbled him in Govt. He's not in a position to go bold.
Completely disagree. Starmer needs to be bold. Country faces huge challenges, and he has a massive majority.
People will expect solutions and delivery, not excuses.
Yes, agreed. What I meant was he hasn't obtained buy-in. Yes he has the power to do it by virtue of his MPs, but without buy-in he hasn't got the moral authority. Politics is (or should be) more than "Do as I say, pleb".
Comments
Politically, they have to make - and make stick - hard decisions, early in their government and justify those decisions with incredible sensitivity. Make minor concessions where appropriate - and on their terms and timing.
My advice to Reeves?
Go bold, or go home.
https://x.com/ap/status/1827047602551943545
@afneil
·
29m
The average annual UK household energy bill to rise by £149 in October. Surely the government won’t let this happen. Labour promised to cut our fuel bills by £300 a year.
NY Times blog
And yes the country is broke caused by covid and the war in Ukraine and for as bad as Johnson was at least he lifted the covid restrictions long before Starmer or Drakeford wanted which would have made things even worse
Why should a mum of three in her thirties doing a full time job on minimum wage be struggling to heat her house when we pay for the oldies to be nice and toasty?
It was always a Tory bung for the client pensioner vote. The fact that pensioners are having it taken off them - boo hoo, frankly.
Means test it and make sure the poorest don't freeze. The rest - pay for it yourselves, like the rest of us.
Brown browbeat Cameron into keeping it during the online debates in 2010.
It was not a Tory bung but was introduced by Gordon Brown in 1997 who as far as I know is a Labour politician
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/23/politics/trump-businesses-campaign-spending-invs?cid=ios_app
Late last year, former President Donald Trump announced his endorsement of car dealership owner Bernie Moreno for Ohio’s Senate seat – elevating an untested candidate who’d never held public office over several other more prominent Republicans.
Two days later, Moreno’s campaign spent about $17,000 at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort, and then followed up by spending an additional $79,000 the next month – making him one of the Florida club’s top political spenders.
He wasn’t alone. With glitzy Mar-a-Lago fundraisers, stays at Trump’s hotels, and flights on the former president’s private jet, Republican candidates and political groups are on track to spend more on Trump’s businesses this year than any year since 2016, according to a CNN analysis of federal campaign finance data.
Trump himself has been the biggest spender, both this year and over the last decade. Between his three presidential campaigns, Trump and associated political groups have funneled more than $28 million in campaign donations to his businesses – helping convert the enthusiasm of his political supporters into personal profit.
Other Republicans have followed suit, spending millions at Trump’s properties in an apparent attempt to curry favor with the former president and signal their allegiance to him to GOP voters.
Some of the candidates who’ve spent the most money on Trump businesses in recent years have been new politicians who won the former president’s endorsement despite a lack of past electoral experience or success, including Moreno, former Georgia Senate candidate Herschel Walker and Arizona Senate hopeful Kari Lake...
She spells her name without capital letters.
What's the fucking point of anything?
This is classic well-to-do commuter belt territory, and is actually inside the M25 despite being in the Three Rivers LA (the bit on the other side of the motorway is Kings Langley - no, I don't know who stole the apostrophes).
It's possibly the least-fertile Refuk territory you could imagine. The Tories could normally expect to win there in a good year, but only did so this time round because of some sort of drama within the Lib Dem ranks.
If they do swing right, this is exactly the sort of seat they can forget about ever winning again.
It was a Brown bung for the pensioner vote, then became a Tory bung for it.
Brown was wrong to introduce it, the Tories were wrong not to cut it as a part of austerity.
Well done Labour now for grasping the nettle and doing the right thing.
The difference is when it was introduced, heating your house was a pretty minor expense if you were on even a low to mid salary. The last couple of years, it's been very different. As I say, why should my tax money subsidise a single pensioner at 68 rather than a single mum with three kids working full time?
The unfairness of the bung has risen as the costs of heating have risen for ordinary working age families over the last two or three years.
If I'm going to be taxed to subsidise other people's heating bills, I would rather it go to working parents on low incomes than pensioners (who may be on very high incomes), tbh. Means test it by all means, and let's not let older people on low incomes go without.
But the current free-for-all (provided you're old enough) needed to end.
love you
If not, why wouldn't they run to 2029?
Welfare should in my view aim to alleviate maximum hardship at the lowest cost to the public purse. It shouldn't be a nice to have. I do accept people likely have higher expenses in winter to pay for fuel, it isn't just age related and in many cases WFA wasn't alleviating any hardship at all. Meanwhile it actually costs money to feed and clothe children, which is a problem when families are dependent on the state.
The beginning of a parliament is a good time to do things that are unpopular but right. This government has done one such thing. It should do another.
This US election has always been the Reps to lose. It seems they might actually achieve that and for much the same reason as 4 years ago. A terrible candidate.
But no, it wasn't just a bit more generous, it was £300 to every pensioner - automatically, every year, no matter whether it's a cold winter or not. Bloody hell.
£300! That would pay for ten-and-a-bit months of my gas bill. And, yes, I live in a well-insulated flat, so I realise that most people have to pay more. But it's still a particularly egregious example of how well we've managed to cushion pensioners from economic reality.
RFK JR: Now, in an honest system, I believe I would have won the election...
https://x.com/Acyn/status/1827056625783279865
Another grifting narcissist.
Unnaturally coloured, too.
https://x.com/robertkennedyjr/status/1827043827779297420
There will be plenty who either support or just ignore this policy. Myself included.
The Oxford comma is official policy.
As President, I will grow our economy.
And I’ll lower the cost of everyday needs like healthcare, housing, and groceries.
https://x.com/KamalaHarris/status/1826819568293064954
It varies from £200 to £300 per household pensioners and max of £300 when the pensioner reaches 80, but also max of £300 for pensioner and spouse
I do not have a problem with wealthier pensioners losing this payment but the discussion needs to be on facts and not incorrect figures
Irrespective of whichever side you are on the optics are terrible and many Labour mps recognise this is an issue of concern for them
This was my thinking.
My mum doesn't need it, always used to make a point of donating it to charity, and it isn't going to make a huge difference to her life. But she is very annoyed and won't stop banging on about it.
It's equal to what? About a weeks worth of pension payments.
And it's not like it's part of a simplification or streamlining of the system because it's still going to exist, but means tested so there will be more admin, more appeal, more edge cases where people narrowly qualify or not for Pensions Credit so more work to be done.
The correct path would've been to scrap it altogether AT THE SAME TIME AS A SUBSTANTIAL SCHEDULED INCREASE TO THE STATE PENSION, then it could be sold as a simplification of the system and nobody would be losing out.
1. Food Conversion Ratio / Input costs.. essentially how much is the calorific output for a given cost of input. We’ve chosen to ban certain cheap and productivity enhancing inputs (eg hormones, beta agonists, prophylactic antibiotics) for other policy reasons
2. Animal Welfare. We’ve chosen various minimum standards in both raising of animals (eg stall sizes) and slaughter. These all come at a cost. This is a policy choice - but one I believe is close to your heart
Basically we’ve chosen expensive, high quality food raised in a relatively humane way. Other choices are also available
3.
Now out of my Jenrick "hate lay". I still hate the bastard though and probs should have kept it.
Remain long Cleverly and Stride.
Won't lay my wonderous Kemi in a market this thin. It would be rational to but I would influence the price which could itself feed into expectations, and I want her to be our next PM, and it's my money so I can manage it how I like.
You have to persuade people of a course of action, and it helps if you do it beforehand. The Ming Vase strategy won Starmer the election but has hobbled him in Govt. He's not in a position to go bold.
Why should my tax money go to subsidise one not the other?
Ozempic could have happened decades earlier… but didn’t, when Pfizer pulled its funding.
Drug Development Failure: how GLP-1 development was abandoned in 1990
https://muse.jhu.edu/pub/1/article/936036/summary
Many factors determine whether and when a class of therapeutic agents will be successfully developed and brought to market, and historians of science, entrepreneurs, drug developers, and clinicians should be interested in accounts of both successes and failures. Successes induce many participants and observers to document them, whereas failed efforts are often lost to history, in part because involved parties are typically unmotivated to document their failures. The GLP-1 class of drugs for diabetes and obesity have emerged over the past decade as clinical and financial blockbusters, perhaps soon becoming the highest single source of revenue for the pharmaceutical industry (Berk 2023). In that context, it is instructive to tell the story of the first commercial effort to develop this class of drugs for metabolic disease, and how, despite remarkable early success, the work was abandoned in 1990. Told by a key participant in the effort, this story documents history that would otherwise be lost and suggests a number of lessons about drug development that remain relevant today...
Starmer needs to be bold. Country faces huge challenges, and he has a massive majority.
People will expect solutions and delivery, not excuses.
And they got it even if they had other income besides their state pension, they got it even it it was a warm winter. Ten times more!
It's crazy, complete madness. How could that ever have been justified?!
And yet some have the cheek to complain about it ending. The level of greed and entitlement on display is beyond shocking.
https://x.com/CalltoActivism/status/1827057602221539514
The state pension, despite the rises in the last two years, is low and in some ways it is unpleasant to see such a pile on on pensioners who will have worked and paid NI for 50 years or more and struggle to heat their homes in winter
Mine are slightly higher in the Summer. In the place we lived previously - in a very safe Labour seat - the bills were substantially higher in the Summer.
It rarely gets so cold in the Winter that we need to put on any kind of heater. But Summers are absolutely sweltering and we run fans a lot, as well as having to turn down the temperatures of the fridge and freezer. Coming into the building and walking up the stairs hits you like entering a sauna or getting off a plane in Dubai, so we use far more fuel on cooling than on heating.
I suspect this is true of many 'middle' flats above the second floor with limited window coverage.
https://x.com/BasedBeffJezos/status/1826725889863770244
YC (venture capital fund) founders trying to "talk to customers" and sell their product in the EU
It is a one off payment of £200 to £300 per pensioner household to offset 6 months of winter fuel bills for the elderly who are likely to suffer serious even life threatening health issues without help and all the additional costs that would be incurred by the NHS
Also do you even know how much the state pension is
The optics are terrible for Labour and it will be interesting to see how this plays out as we go into winter and the energy rises comes along
https://x.com/nate_cohn/status/1827056346950213786
FiveThirtyEight released a new model today, showing Harris with a 58% chance to win. But it's clearly a very different model and I think it's important to hear more about the differences.
The previous model made Biden the favorite bc it gave 4:1 weight to fundamentals > polls -- a view that would make Trump stronger today and perhaps still ahead.
Now it gives 4:1 weight to polls > fundamentals -- which would have made Trump a large favorite before.
As I say, above, but I will repeat if you're too thick to read. I'm happy to pay for pensioners on a means tested basis who really need it, but the blanket coverage was absurd.
There are others more deserving, e.g. single mums with kids, who I'd rather subsidise, than pensioners on decent incomes with no dependents.
Let’s see what next week’s polls say.
RFK JR: Kamala Harris declined to meet or even to speak with me
https://x.com/Acyn/status/1827061967070359811
Some sensible and balanced analysis.
And yes, full state pension in the UK is about 115% of the cost of living on the latest figures I've seen.
Before we even take account of the levels of private pension provision our older generations tend to have, levels that younger generations will not enjoy.
The properties that are most expensive to heat are overwhelmingly owned outright, and are almost always significantly larger than average.
As per today's headlines, the median bill will be £143/month for electricity and heating combined. The Winter Fuel Payment covered 46% of the average pensioner's combined energy bill last year. Why?
I mean, pensions are protected by the triple lock which means they rise when inflation does, and then rise again the next year when incomes rise in response to inflation. Pensioners already get double bubble, why should they get almost half their fuel bill paid for them too?
On what planet are you on that thinks a pensioners annual energy bill is £400 or thereabout
As an 80 year old living with an 84 year old our energy bill last year was £1,680
There's no money left.
Absolutely that's far more than the post-tax, post-rent/mortgage income that many families have.
143 a month is 1716 a year....lets walk it through with you.....200/1716 * 100 = 11.65% how did you get to 46%
Today we're paying to provide for unfunded final salary pensions that were accrued but never paid for in the past, but are not eligible to get those ourselves.
And you have the audacity to call that better?
https://www.simplybusiness.co.uk/knowledge/articles/energy-efficiency-rules-for-rental-properties-scrapped/
An EPC rating of E starts at 39 points on a 0-100 scale.
And we were pissing away £200-£300 away on them for an electoral bung they had no need for?