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SeanF, what a pompous and patronising comment, and please don't seek to speak for all of us who now remain in the Conservative party! Its nearly twenty years since I had my last child, and it would have certainly curtailed socialising in our circle of friends if they had all held such archaic views on breastfeeding, especially as most of us were doing just that at gatherings as we all became parents around that time!Sean_F said:
Mr. Farage tends to say publicly what many, perhaps most, Conservatives say privately.Luckyguy1983 said:
So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!MikeSmithson said:What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.
I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/
Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html0 -
What is Opinium's track record?
The only thing I could find was the Euros where the;
Tories were up 2.9 compared to Opinium polling
Labour were up 0.4 compared to polling
UKIP were down 4.5 compared to polling
LD were up 0.9 compared to polling.
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"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
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Well, I think it's perfectly fair to ask someone to experience something before asking how they react.JosiasJessop said:
I was very surprised that you said (I think, sorry if I've got it wrong) in the previous thread that you'd never seen a woman breastfeeding in public in the UK. I see it a lot at the moment for obvious reasons, but even before that it was hardly uncommon. Pubs, cafes, even at bus stops and railway stations.Ninoinoz said:
And polling is a snapshot, not a prediction.TheScreamingEagles said:
The polling disagrees with you, last a year poll found that a majority of current Tories and 2010 Tories thought it was generally acceptable for women to breast feed in public/in restaurants.Sean_F said:
Mr. Farage tends to say publicly what many, perhaps most, Conservatives say privately.Luckyguy1983 said:
So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!MikeSmithson said:What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.
I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/
Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html
How many of those had actually seen a mother breastfeeding in public?
We obviously frequent different places.
Besides, why should seeing a woman breastfeed in public change their minds against it? Is a woman's skin that hideous?
I frequent buses, trains, underground, workplace, restaurants and cinemas. Never seen breastfeeding there, but perhaps the mothers were following Farage's advice and were discreet.
I have seen it done Italy, but that's a different country.0 -
Indeed, the soundness of this viewpoint is reinforced by the general election in Scotland in 2010 where the SNP only got 17.7% and the Liblabcon got 77.9% of the vote after which, of course, the SNP imploded due to their own contradictions and no one took them seriously ever again......foxinsoxuk said:
Around 15 % support the kippers, around 75% support LibLabCon. The ascendancy looks pretty secure.MikeK said:
Sorry to disappoint you Mike but this article - below - from the Telegraph had over 2,000 responses, 95% favourable to Farage and UKIP.MikeSmithson said:What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.
I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage/11275846/Nigel-Farages-breastfeeding-comments-will-do-Ukip-little-harm.html
Continue dreaming Mike, your cosy world of Lab/Lib/Con ascendancy is coming to an end
I'm not quite sure whether OGH was just stirring it or really thinks that this will damage Farage. Certainly a lot of Libdems appear to be disgruntled old men at the moment.0 -
Josias, congratulations to you and Mrs JJ on becoming new parents. I had wondered a while back if you were about to become new parents over the summer, you had posted a couple of cryptic comments about big changes this year.
JosiasJessop said:
I was very surprised that you said (I think, sorry if I've got it wrong) in the previous thread that you'd never seen a woman breastfeeding in public in the UK. I see it a lot at the moment for obvious reasons, but even before that it was hardly uncommon. Pubs, cafes, even at bus stops and railway stations.Ninoinoz said:
And polling is a snapshot, not a prediction.TheScreamingEagles said:
The polling disagrees with you, last a year poll found that a majority of current Tories and 2010 Tories thought it was generally acceptable for women to breast feed in public/in restaurants.Sean_F said:
Mr. Farage tends to say publicly what many, perhaps most, Conservatives say privately.Luckyguy1983 said:
So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!MikeSmithson said:What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.
I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/
Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html
How many of those had actually seen a mother breastfeeding in public?
We obviously frequent different places.
Besides, why should seeing a woman breastfeed in public change their minds against it? Is a woman's skin that hideous?0 -
Broadly, all the polls are consistent in showing Con/UKIP on c. 47%, and Lab/Green/Nats on c. 45%. Victory goes to whoever can win enough of their side.Casino_Royale said:
Looks like a no change poll to me. Cameron's immigration speech was the last chance he had to rebuild an election winning coalition IMHO.TheScreamingEagles said:Opinium
Lab 34 (+1) Con 29 (-1) LD 6 (-1) UKIP 19 (nc) Greens 6 (+2)
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/06/observer-opinium-poll-autumn-statement-labour-lead
Now, he'll have to gamble on fear of Ed Miliband getting him (just) over the line.0 -
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.0 -
I don't care (or mind) either way on breastfeeding. It's a totally irrelevant issue.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
It's faux generated outrage like this by the established political parties - on a totally inconsequential issue - in a vain attempt to 'get' an insurgent opponent, whilst totally ignoring a real issue like mass immigration that most do care about and has very real consequences, that pisses so many people off.0 -
Fitalass: thanks. It's a big change, especially relatively late in life (I'm the oldest dad in our NCT group by six years). But it's been so much fun, if very, very tiring. I might give some on here a coronary by suggesting that every dad should try staying at home to look after a baby whilst their wives work - it's certainly turning out well for me!fitalass said:Josias, congratulations to you and Mrs JJ on becoming new parents. I had wondered a while back if you were about to become new parents over the summer, you had posted a couple of cryptic comments about big changes this year.
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Very tough to call.Sean_F said:
Broadly, all the polls are consistent in showing Con/UKIP on c. 47%, and Lab/Green/Nats on c. 45%. Victory goes to whoever can win enough of their side.Casino_Royale said:
Looks like a no change poll to me. Cameron's immigration speech was the last chance he had to rebuild an election winning coalition IMHO.TheScreamingEagles said:Opinium
Lab 34 (+1) Con 29 (-1) LD 6 (-1) UKIP 19 (nc) Greens 6 (+2)
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/06/observer-opinium-poll-autumn-statement-labour-lead
Now, he'll have to gamble on fear of Ed Miliband getting him (just) over the line.0 -
Here on this thread we see two blatant examples of idiocy and desperationAlistair said:FTPT
Really? I think a lot of people see this as exposing the frankly unpleasant views of Farage.AndyJS said:
Once again it shows how clever Farage is in making the political elite seem out of touch by getting them to obsess over a relatively minor issue for most voters.TCPoliticalBetting said:There are far far more important matters to worry about than Farage's comment on breast feeding. This is just tittle tattle by "outraged of Dun-in-the-wold". The important statements from Farage are about the party's policies.
It's not 'obsessing' to point out that Farage is saying something that the vast majority of the population disagree with.
First, @MikeK Wenger should be able to choose when he has had enough after all he has done for The Arsenal... consistent top 4 finishes were not a given before he took over, much as I loved Georgie Graham
Secondly the fools tripping over themselves to condemn Farage for what they wish he had said.. the fact is that he said he wasn't bothered by women breastfeeding in public. That's really all there is to it.
I swear, here and now that if I do stand for election next year, I would rather lose than pretend an opponent had said something they hadn't to score a cheap point and deceive the public. It is quite pathetic, and you can hold me to it should I ever resort to such childishness0 -
Perhaps you have a point here.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
I've been to Masses where I've not heard a single word due to the crying of babies. I always say to myself 'This is the next generation of Catholics you are hearing' and smile serenely.
Restaurateurs have no such obligation, though.0 -
Better still, give Nigel Farage a bottle and a baby and try getting him to feed that baby that bottle at lunch time in a busy restaurant's ladies toilets with no chairs while his meal goes cold.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?0 -
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.0 -
I think that people here are failing to see the sublety of this. While no one wants to see nursing mothers banned from restaurants, it is not unreasonable that nursing mothers should be as discreet as practicable. People regard in your face "its my right to do it" types as being as obnoxious as those who would ban nursing mothers altogether.fitalass said:SeanF, what a pompous and patronising comment, and please don't seek to speak for all of us who now remain in the Conservative party! Its nearly twenty years since I had my last child, and it would have certainly curtailed socialising in our circle of friends if they had all held such archaic views on breastfeeding, especially as most of us were doing just that at gatherings as we all became parents around that time!
Sean_F said:
Mr. Farage tends to say publicly what many, perhaps most, Conservatives say privately.Luckyguy1983 said:
So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!MikeSmithson said:What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.
I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/
Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html
Apart from anything else, I can tell you from experience that the first thing a baby usually does after feeding is craps in its nappy, stinking the place out, or throws up, which isn't always desirable in a restaurant, if you are sat disceetly in a corner at least you can get to the loo pronto, with minimum embarrasment.
Lets face it, the Greenham Common Peace Camp Veterans Association camping outside Claridges and feeding their sprogs is hardly going to damage UKIP.
The main reason however this actually benefits UKIP is because people think it is up to the establishment what they do without the state interfering. People who don't like it won't use them. Time to repeal all such restraints on business.
And before the obvious is stated, yes that does include laws that prevent restaurant owners putting "no blacks or irish" signs on their door. Any establishment doing something like this would be all over twitter and boycotted/hounded out in a flash. We, the people are quite capable of dealing with such matters ourselves and do not need nanny state to tell us what to do.0 -
My feeling is if we are fine with establishments banning jeans/trainers/etc because they want to create a certain atmosphere (or whatever other logic you want to use to justify them doing so) then it isn't unreasonable for them to apply similar policies for similar reasons to breastfeeding etc.AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.0 -
A free short story (Sir Edric), containing a small amount of swearing:
http://thaddeuswhite.weebly.com/writing-blog/sir-edric-and-the-stolen-sherry0 -
Maybe, but it is the harrying of Claridge's over an inconsequential issue on their own premises that really shows the Metropolitan Elite™ up.Casino_Royale said:
I don't care (or mind) either way on breastfeeding. It's a totally irrelevant issue.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
It's faux generated outrage like this by the established political parties - on a totally inconsequential issue - in a vain attempt to 'get' an insurgent opponent, whilst totally ignoring a real issue like mass immigration that most do care about and has very real consequences, that pisses so many people off.
On a related note, if there is all this sudden support for home production from LibLabCon, why are they so in favour of mass immigration?0 -
Melissa's no exactly unbiased on the whole motherhood thing. She's written in the past about how she wants to be, but can't.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/0 -
Then it should be made clear before anyone enters that breastfeeding is verboten: may I suggest a large sign above the door saying: "Women frighten us!"corporeal said:
My feeling is if we are fine with establishments banning jeans/trainers/etc because they want to create a certain atmosphere (or whatever other logic you want to use to justify them doing so) then it isn't unreasonable for them to apply similar policies for similar reasons to breastfeeding etc.AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
It is just a policy to marginalise women.0 -
Have I logged onto Mumsnet by mistake?0
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I wouldn't be all that surprised if the Farage LBC shows had some kind of arrangement where he was deliberately asked questions on certain topical issues precisely so he could give an answer that the "progressives" couldn't help but trip over themselves in a rush to condemn before they had thought it through.
Anyone who watched that show who did have a problem with breastfeeding in public wouldn't have necessarily agreed with Farage, but he was the least antagonistic to their feelings0 -
Any woman (or couple) with any intelligence or decorum expecting to be feeding a baby would want to be in a fairly discreet part of the restaurant anyway as they woudn't much enjoy baring their breast and feeding the baby in the full glare of everyone elses attention. Only exhibitionists, idiots and activists would think otherwise.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.0 -
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?0 -
Mr. Away, no. If you want a manlier conversation I have many F1 topics worthy of discourse:
Red Bull have had over 60 trophies stolen
McLaren continue to dick about Button and Magnussen
Korea's back on the calendar, surprisingly, but it might just be a ploy rather than a race that's actually going to happen
VW is doing a study into whether entering the sport is worthwhile0 -
Just feel thankful it's not a Friday night ... :-)state_go_away said:Have I logged onto Mumsnet by mistake?
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Nope, there would be no doubt if you had popped into Mumsnet. For a start, there would be a significant shift in the gender balance and political leaning of posters discussing the issue of breast feeding...state_go_away said:
Have I logged onto Mumsnet by mistake?
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5846/Nigel-Farages-breastfeeding-comments-will-do-Ukip-little-harm.html
Every workplace needs this: pic.twitter.com/xmEHtuziBz
— Tom Phillips (@TomSprints) December 6, 20140 -
I'm not a Liberal Democrat. I just thought it would be amusing to transpose a word, and see if it would still be acceptable..Ninoinoz said:
Well, you should be perfectly happy as a Liberal Democrat MP, then.rcs1000 said:"Allowing blacks into restaurants doesn't bother me, of course, but I can understand why blacks ostentatiously coming into restaurants and being expected to be treated like normal people would upset some people."
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Yes, perhaps she feels breastfeeding in front of her is rubbing her nose in it.Charles said:
Melissa's no exactly unbiased on the whole motherhood thing. She's written in the past about how she wants to be, but can't.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/0 -
But its my RIGHT to crap on the floor next to my table in a restaurant....Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?0 -
The football fans equivalent of #firstworldproblemsScrapheap_as_was said:
We'll have him....MikeK said:WENGER MUST GO........NOW
It must be hell being in the Champs League so often.0 -
Any man with intelligence or decorum would realise that feeding a baby is perfectly natural, and restricting it only restricts the ability of mothers to participate in society.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Any woman (or couple) with any intelligence or decorum expecting to be feeding a baby would want to be in a fairly discreet part of the restaurant anyway as they woudn't much enjoy baring their breast and feeding the baby in the full glare of everyone elses attention. Only exhibitionists, idiots and activists would think otherwise.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Besides, what is a 'discrete' part of a pub, cafe or restaurant? Usually they have tables packed in cheek to jowl, and it's perfectly possible to enter our local at midday to find it empty, only for it to fill up half an hour later when the business part empties for lunch. Or are you saying a mother has to try to anticipate which tables will be filled?0 -
May I return the discussion back to the Opinium poll for a moment, it has reaffirmed the results of some other pollsters that have equally recorded a slightly higher Labour lead and falling economic optimism.
The extra bit is that after the december autumn statement both the Tories and Labour fell on handling the economy, so Osborne misfired.0 -
Having sex, walking around naked and going to the toilet is natural too. Can I do that at a restaurant table?JosiasJessop said:
Any man with intelligence or decorum would realise that feeding a baby is perfectly natural, and restricting it only restricts the ability of mothers to participate in society.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Any woman (or couple) with any intelligence or decorum expecting to be feeding a baby would want to be in a fairly discreet part of the restaurant anyway as they woudn't much enjoy baring their breast and feeding the baby in the full glare of everyone elses attention. Only exhibitionists, idiots and activists would think otherwise.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Anything that involves excreting body fluids in public is always going to be controversial and where it cannot be avoided, is best done as discretely as practicable.
0 -
Anyone making a comparison between breast feeding and going to the toilet is being extremely cr@p.Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?
Besides, as babies can do their business at any time, what you are saying is that babies should not be taken into public places ...0 -
You cannot choose your race, but you can choose your behaviour.rcs1000 said:
I'm not a Liberal Democrat. I just thought it would be amusing to transpose a word, and see if it would still be acceptable..Ninoinoz said:
Well, you should be perfectly happy as a Liberal Democrat MP, then.rcs1000 said:"Allowing blacks into restaurants doesn't bother me, of course, but I can understand why blacks ostentatiously coming into restaurants and being expected to be treated like normal people would upset some people."
As, I suppose, you didn't choose your father.0 -
It doesn't mean a thing thoughrcs1000 said:
I'm not a Liberal Democrat. I just thought it would be amusing to transpose a word, and see if it would still be acceptable..Ninoinoz said:
Well, you should be perfectly happy as a Liberal Democrat MP, then.rcs1000 said:"Allowing blacks into restaurants doesn't bother me, of course, but I can understand why blacks ostentatiously coming into restaurants and being expected to be treated like normal people would upset some people."
Some restaurants and pubs don't allow children in them after a certain time of day.. transpose the word "children" for "blacks" in that scenario and you have one situation that people would accept, and another that is outrageous...
But it's a bullshit argument, so who cares?
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Some places do just apply a blanket rule of no children (often with signs), and some do go for signs of "suits required" or "no trainers" etc.JosiasJessop said:
Then it should be made clear before anyone enters that breastfeeding is verboten: may I suggest a large sign above the door saying: "Women frighten us!"corporeal said:
My feeling is if we are fine with establishments banning jeans/trainers/etc because they want to create a certain atmosphere (or whatever other logic you want to use to justify them doing so) then it isn't unreasonable for them to apply similar policies for similar reasons to breastfeeding etc.AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
It is just a policy to marginalise women.0 -
We haven't had a Survation for a while.TheScreamingEagles said:
Opinium for the Observer should be out tonight as well.peter_from_putney said:Presumably just the one, YouGov/Sunday Times poll due this evening?
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Look mate, if people have paid very good money for a service, they have a right to enjoy it in peace and quiet.JosiasJessop said:
Anyone making a comparison between breast feeding and going to the toilet is being extremely cr@p.Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?
Besides, as babies can do their business at any time, what you are saying is that babies should not be taken into public places ...
There are mother and baby screening for those with young children, or find a babysitter.0 -
"Anything that involves excreting body fluids in public is always going to be controversial "Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Having sex, walking around naked and going to the toilet is natural too. Can I do that at a restaurant table?
Anything that involves excreting body fluids in public is always going to be controversial and where it cannot be avoided, is best done as discretely as practicable.
UKIP ban perspiration and saliva!
You make it sound as if women bare their breasts in restaurant and go around squirting milk into other diner's faces!0 -
Supermarkets and public transport would certainly be much less stressful without very young children.JosiasJessop said:
Anyone making a comparison between breast feeding and going to the toilet is being extremely cr@p.Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?
Besides, as babies can do their business at any time, what you are saying is that babies should not be taken into public places ...
0 -
No one knows when Survation has a poll.Artist said:
We haven't had a Survation for a while.TheScreamingEagles said:
Opinium for the Observer should be out tonight as well.peter_from_putney said:Presumably just the one, YouGov/Sunday Times poll due this evening?
They don't make regular ones.0 -
Yep, as I thought, you want to marginalise women. At least you are being honest about it ...Ninoinoz said:
Look mate, if people have paid very good money for a service, they have a right to enjoy it in peace and quiet.JosiasJessop said:
Anyone making a comparison between breast feeding and going to the toilet is being extremely cr@p.Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?
Besides, as babies can do their business at any time, what you are saying is that babies should not be taken into public places ...
There are mother and baby screening for those with young children, or find a babysitter.0 -
Bitty.0
-
Changing the subject. Britain are going to build a permanent naval base in Bahrain
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/06/britain-first-middle-eastern-military-base-bahrain0 -
What are the present standards for breastfeeding in restaurants?JosiasJessop said:
Yep, as I thought, you want to marginalise women. At least you are being honest about it ...Ninoinoz said:
Look mate, if people have paid very good money for a service, they have a right to enjoy it in peace and quiet.JosiasJessop said:
Anyone making a comparison between breast feeding and going to the toilet is being extremely cr@p.Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?
Besides, as babies can do their business at any time, what you are saying is that babies should not be taken into public places ...
There are mother and baby screening for those with young children, or find a babysitter.
Or there's no particular standard?0 -
Surely women (or at least kipper womenfolk) should stay at home so they can do their breastfeeding in the comfort of home, not troubling the world of work and having plenty of time for cleaning behind the fridge?Sean_F said:
Supermarkets and public transport would certainly be much less stressful without very young children.JosiasJessop said:
Anyone making a comparison between breast feeding and going to the toilet is being extremely cr@p.Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?
Besides, as babies can do their business at any time, what you are saying is that babies should not be taken into public places ...
0 -
Heh, heh, heh.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Having sex, walking around naked and going to the toilet is natural too. Can I do that at a restaurant table?JosiasJessop said:
Any man with intelligence or decorum would realise that feeding a baby is perfectly natural, and restricting it only restricts the ability of mothers to participate in society.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Any woman (or couple) with any intelligence or decorum expecting to be feeding a baby would want to be in a fairly discreet part of the restaurant anyway as they woudn't much enjoy baring their breast and feeding the baby in the full glare of everyone elses attention. Only exhibitionists, idiots and activists would think otherwise.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Anything that involves excreting body fluids in public is always going to be controversial and where it cannot be avoided, is best done as discretely as practicable.
I see that using the word 'excrete' has lured you into spelling 'discreet' as 'discrete'.
This is all getting a bit scatological.0 -
Most don't are reasonably discreet and don't cause anyone a problem, its the in your face "its my right to do it" types from the metropolitan elite with puffed up sense of entitlement that don't come far off doing that that cause the problem.JosiasJessop said:
"Anything that involves excreting body fluids in public is always going to be controversial "Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Having sex, walking around naked and going to the toilet is natural too. Can I do that at a restaurant table?
Anything that involves excreting body fluids in public is always going to be controversial and where it cannot be avoided, is best done as discretely as practicable.
UKIP ban perspiration and saliva!
You make it sound as if women bare their breasts in restaurant and go around squirting milk into other diner's faces!
0 -
Left to individual preference aiui. Some places don't allow it, some do, some use it as a selling point (well, that tends to be more cafes).Speedy said:
What are the present standards for breastfeeding in restaurants?JosiasJessop said:
Yep, as I thought, you want to marginalise women. At least you are being honest about it ...Ninoinoz said:
Look mate, if people have paid very good money for a service, they have a right to enjoy it in peace and quiet.JosiasJessop said:
Anyone making a comparison between breast feeding and going to the toilet is being extremely cr@p.Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?
Besides, as babies can do their business at any time, what you are saying is that babies should not be taken into public places ...
There are mother and baby screening for those with young children, or find a babysitter.
Or there's no particular standard?0 -
I though that Britain withdrew from east of suez because of lack of money, these days there is even a bigger lack of money and the price of oil has dropped almost 50%, so why build a base and with what money?Paul_Mid_Beds said:Changing the subject. Britain are going to build a permanent naval base in Bahrain
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/06/britain-first-middle-eastern-military-base-bahrain0 -
JosiasJessop said:
"Anything that involves excreting body fluids in public is always going to be controversial "Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Having sex, walking around naked and going to the toilet is natural too. Can I do that at a restaurant table?
Anything that involves excreting body fluids in public is always going to be controversial and where it cannot be avoided, is best done as discretely as practicable.
UKIP ban perspiration and saliva!
You make it sound as if women bare their breasts in restaurant and go around squirting milk into other diner's faces!
http://tinyurl.com/o63h8sg !JosiasJessop said:
"Anything that involves excreting body fluids in public is always going to be controversial "Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Having sex, walking around naked and going to the toilet is natural too. Can I do that at a restaurant table?
Anything that involves excreting body fluids in public is always going to be controversial and where it cannot be avoided, is best done as discretely as practicable.
UKIP ban perspiration and saliva!
You make it sound as if women bare their breasts in restaurant and go around squirting milk into other diner's faces!0 -
Opinium/Observer poll
LAB 34% CON 29% LDEM 6% UKIP 19% GRNS 6%
Todays Opinium LAB 352 CON 248 LD 22 (UKPR)
EICIPM0 -
0
-
That seems sensible, so why the moaning on PB?corporeal said:
Left to individual preference aiui. Some places don't allow it, some do, some use it as a selling point (well, that tends to be more cafes).Speedy said:
What are the present standards for breastfeeding in restaurants?JosiasJessop said:
Yep, as I thought, you want to marginalise women. At least you are being honest about it ...Ninoinoz said:
Look mate, if people have paid very good money for a service, they have a right to enjoy it in peace and quiet.JosiasJessop said:
Anyone making a comparison between breast feeding and going to the toilet is being extremely cr@p.Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?
Besides, as babies can do their business at any time, what you are saying is that babies should not be taken into public places ...
There are mother and baby screening for those with young children, or find a babysitter.
Or there's no particular standard?0 -
If you are so precious as to find other people's children so stressful (after all, you cannot have been one yourself), why don't you not travel on public transport, or visit supermarkets?Sean_F said:
Supermarkets and public transport would certainly be much less stressful without very young children.
In fact, one of those evil horrors might be on the street outside, so perhaps you shouldn't leave the house ...
The alternative, which some on here seem to be arguing, is that women cannot leave the house lest pathetic sexist idiots get upset at the mere sight of a child. The fear on this thread is palapble: the woman might wap her tits out and squirt milk at everyone, and the child might defecate so fiercely that it covers the entire neighbourhood in poo!0 -
Nope, I just want to see the film without having a baby crying in my ear or just eat a meal without having a baby farting within earshot.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, as I thought, you want to marginalise women. At least you are being honest about it ...Ninoinoz said:
Look mate, if people have paid very good money for a service, they have a right to enjoy it in peace and quiet.JosiasJessop said:
Anyone making a comparison between breast feeding and going to the toilet is being extremely cr@p.Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?
Besides, as babies can do their business at any time, what you are saying is that babies should not be taken into public places ...
There are mother and baby screening for those with young children, or find a babysitter.
Is this too much to ask?0 -
I am not aware of breasts being on any menu.Speedy said:
What are the present standards for breastfeeding in restaurants?JosiasJessop said:
Yep, as I thought, you want to marginalise women. At least you are being honest about it ...Ninoinoz said:
Look mate, if people have paid very good money for a service, they have a right to enjoy it in peace and quiet.JosiasJessop said:
Anyone making a comparison between breast feeding and going to the toilet is being extremely cr@p.Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?
Besides, as babies can do their business at any time, what you are saying is that babies should not be taken into public places ...
There are mother and baby screening for those with young children, or find a babysitter.
Or there's no particular standard?0 -
Because they are angry that UKIP are taking their parties votes, and like to channel their fury through calling them names (while deluding themselves that they have the moral high ground because they think themselves too intelligent to lose their temper due to frustration)Speedy said:
That seems sensible, so why the moaning on PB?corporeal said:
Left to individual preference aiui. Some places don't allow it, some do, some use it as a selling point (well, that tends to be more cafes).Speedy said:
What are the present standards for breastfeeding in restaurants?JosiasJessop said:
Yep, as I thought, you want to marginalise women. At least you are being honest about it ...Ninoinoz said:
Look mate, if people have paid very good money for a service, they have a right to enjoy it in peace and quiet.JosiasJessop said:
Anyone making a comparison between breast feeding and going to the toilet is being extremely cr@p.Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?
Besides, as babies can do their business at any time, what you are saying is that babies should not be taken into public places ...
There are mother and baby screening for those with young children, or find a babysitter.
Or there's no particular standard?0 -
No bare tits allowed........corporeal said:
Some places do just apply a blanket rule of no children (often with signs), and some do go for signs of "suits required" or "no trainers" etc.JosiasJessop said:
Then it should be made clear before anyone enters that breastfeeding is verboten: may I suggest a large sign above the door saying: "Women frighten us!"corporeal said:
My feeling is if we are fine with establishments banning jeans/trainers/etc because they want to create a certain atmosphere (or whatever other logic you want to use to justify them doing so) then it isn't unreasonable for them to apply similar policies for similar reasons to breastfeeding etc.AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
It is just a policy to marginalise women.0 -
Indeed, BJO, and while some on here will no doubt be happy to gloat at the LD number which is poor, the Conservative number is the real shocker here.bigjohnowls said:Opinium/Observer poll
LAB 34% CON 29% LDEM 6% UKIP 19% GRNS 6%
Todays Opinium LAB 352 CON 248 LD 22 (UKPR)
EICIPM
Five months out from an election and another poll shows them sub 30% which would be a worse performance than 1997 or 2001. The swing on these numbers would be 6% Conservative to Labour and that masks a probably greater swing in England and in the key marginals.
LDs like me are castigated for our "denial" at poll numbers of 6 and 7% and that's fair enough - isn't it equally true to suggest some Conservatives are in denial about poll ratings of below 30% ? Or is there a core belief that the UKIP vote will run back to them at the first real sign of electioneering ?
0 -
Don't adults fart? And as for babies crying, I think you're much more likely to be annoyed by people talking or using their mobiles during a film.Ninoinoz said:
Nope, I just want to see the film without having a baby crying in my ear or just eat a meal without having a baby farting within earshot.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, as I thought, you want to marginalise women. At least you are being honest about it ...Ninoinoz said:
Look mate, if people have paid very good money for a service, they have a right to enjoy it in peace and quiet.JosiasJessop said:
Anyone making a comparison between breast feeding and going to the toilet is being extremely cr@p.Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?
Besides, as babies can do their business at any time, what you are saying is that babies should not be taken into public places ...
There are mother and baby screening for those with young children, or find a babysitter.
Is this too much to ask?
You are being really ridiculous, especially in a conversation about breastfeeding ...0 -
Like CR I don't have strong feelings either way about Claridge's policy.foxinsoxuk said:
Surely women (or at least kipper womenfolk) should stay at home so they can do their breastfeeding in the comfort of home, not troubling the world of work and having plenty of time for cleaning behind the fridge?Sean_F said:
Supermarkets and public transport would certainly be much less stressful without very young children.JosiasJessop said:
Anyone making a comparison between breast feeding and going to the toilet is being extremely cr@p.Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?
Besides, as babies can do their business at any time, what you are saying is that babies should not be taken into public places ...
I must say the demonstrators displayed considerable fortitude. Breastfeeding for hours on end in the open must be pretty rough on the nipples, at this time of year.
0 -
Mr. Eagles, I hope he loses. He's bloody irritating.0
-
Are there any photographs?Sean_F said:
Like CR I don't have strong feelings either way about Claridge's policy.foxinsoxuk said:
Surely women (or at least kipper womenfolk) should stay at home so they can do their breastfeeding in the comfort of home, not troubling the world of work and having plenty of time for cleaning behind the fridge?Sean_F said:
Supermarkets and public transport would certainly be much less stressful without very young children.JosiasJessop said:
Anyone making a comparison between breast feeding and going to the toilet is being extremely cr@p.Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?
Besides, as babies can do their business at any time, what you are saying is that babies should not be taken into public places ...
I must say the demonstrators displayed considerable fortitude. Breastfeeding for hours on end in the open must be pretty rough on the nipples, at this time of year.
Asking for a friend...0 -
Also, water wet.TheScreamingEagles said:
0 -
He won't lose contesting Gordon. No chance. None.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, I hope he loses. He's bloody irritating.
0 -
Do we have enough aircraft carriers for it to be worth it?Paul_Mid_Beds said:Changing the subject. Britain are going to build a permanent naval base in Bahrain
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/06/britain-first-middle-eastern-military-base-bahrain0 -
It appears to be illegal to stop them, or discriminate against them:Speedy said:
What are the present standards for breastfeeding in restaurants?
Or there's no particular standard?
"The new Equality Act says that it is sex discrimination to treat a woman unfavourably because she is breastfeeding. It applies to anyone providing services, benefits, facilities and premises to the public, public bodies, further and higher education bodies and association. Service providers include most organisations that deal directly with the public. Service providers must not discriminate, harass or victimise a woman because she is breastfeeding. Discrimination includes refusing to provide a service, providing a lower standard of service or providing a service on different terms. Therefore, a cafe owner cannot ask you to stop breastfeeding or refuse to serve you."
http://www.maternityaction.org.uk/wp/advice-2/mums-dads-scenarios/6-breastfeeding-rights/breastfeeding-in-public-places/
Enlightened Scotland goes further:
"In Scotland a person has a right to breastfeed or bottle feed a child under two and it is a criminal offence to try to stop or to prevent a woman from feeding a child under two in any place in which the public has access and in which a child under two is entitled to be. Anyone who tries to stop or prevent a person feeding milk to a child under the age of two can be prosecuted and can face a claim under the Equality Act."0 -
Of course, young children have to use public places, however annoying their screeching and misbehaviour. It's just one of those things one learns to block out.JosiasJessop said:
If you are so precious as to find other people's children so stressful (after all, you cannot have been one yourself), why don't you not travel on public transport, or visit supermarkets?Sean_F said:
Supermarkets and public transport would certainly be much less stressful without very young children.
In fact, one of those evil horrors might be on the street outside, so perhaps you shouldn't leave the house ...
The alternative, which some on here seem to be arguing, is that women cannot leave the house lest pathetic sexist idiots get upset at the mere sight of a child. The fear on this thread is palapble: the woman might wap her tits out and squirt milk at everyone, and the child might defecate so fiercely that it covers the entire neighbourhood in poo!0 -
Observer / Opinium:
Lab 34%
Con 29%
UKIP 19%
Green 6%
LD 6%
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/06/observer-opinium-poll-autumn-statement-labour-lead0 -
He'd be the first confirmed SNP candidate if so.Alistair said:0 -
Lab +1, Con -1. Not a huge change.bigjohnowls said:Opinium/Observer poll
LAB 34% CON 29% LDEM 6% UKIP 19% GRNS 6%
Todays Opinium LAB 352 CON 248 LD 22 (UKPR)
EICIPM
0 -
Yes, women should be ashamed of their body and their gender.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Any woman (or couple) with any intelligence or decorum expecting to be feeding a baby would want to be in a fairly discreet part of the restaurant anyway as they woudn't much enjoy baring their breast and feeding the baby in the full glare of everyone elses attention. Only exhibitionists, idiots and activists would think otherwise.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.0 -
Mr. Pulpstar, that's bloody depressing. He's an utter arse.0
-
Young children are like Americans. You usually only notice the loud and obnoxious ones.Sean_F said:
Of course, young children have to use public places, however annoying their screeching and misbehaviour. It's just one of those things one learns to block out.JosiasJessop said:
If you are so precious as to find other people's children so stressful (after all, you cannot have been one yourself), why don't you not travel on public transport, or visit supermarkets?Sean_F said:
Supermarkets and public transport would certainly be much less stressful without very young children.
In fact, one of those evil horrors might be on the street outside, so perhaps you shouldn't leave the house ...
The alternative, which some on here seem to be arguing, is that women cannot leave the house lest pathetic sexist idiots get upset at the mere sight of a child. The fear on this thread is palapble: the woman might wap her tits out and squirt milk at everyone, and the child might defecate so fiercely that it covers the entire neighbourhood in poo!0 -
Mr. Alistair, as an aside, it's curious that breasts are seen as all racy and sexy on women, but far less risqué on men (ie men walking about shirtless, whilst uncouth, is not seen in nearly the same light as women doing likewise).
Is this bad for women (their body is seen as more sexual) or for men (being naked from the waist up is seen as acceptable)? [Or for neither, of course]. Imagine if it were reversed.
Mind you, women bare their midriffs and legs much more.0 -
Asking breastfeeding women to make sure their breasts are covered up isn't discriminating against them. We apply the same rules to all women.JosiasJessop said:
It appears to be illegal to stop them, or discriminate against them:Speedy said:
What are the present standards for breastfeeding in restaurants?
Or there's no particular standard?
"The new Equality Act says that it is sex discrimination to treat a woman unfavourably because she is breastfeeding. It applies to anyone providing services, benefits, facilities and premises to the public, public bodies, further and higher education bodies and association. Service providers include most organisations that deal directly with the public. Service providers must not discriminate, harass or victimise a woman because she is breastfeeding. Discrimination includes refusing to provide a service, providing a lower standard of service or providing a service on different terms. Therefore, a cafe owner cannot ask you to stop breastfeeding or refuse to serve you."
http://www.maternityaction.org.uk/wp/advice-2/mums-dads-scenarios/6-breastfeeding-rights/breastfeeding-in-public-places/
Enlightened Scotland goes further:
"In Scotland a person has a right to breastfeed or bottle feed a child under two and it is a criminal offence to try to stop or to prevent a woman from feeding a child under two in any place in which the public has access and in which a child under two is entitled to be. Anyone who tries to stop or prevent a person feeding milk to a child under the age of two can be prosecuted and can face a claim under the Equality Act."0 -
Would it be okay for a man to start w*nking in the middle of a restaurant? It's natural, and he shouldn't be made to feel ashamed of his body by feeling he ought to resist his urges.Alistair said:
Yes, women should be ashamed of their body and their gender.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Any woman (or couple) with any intelligence or decorum expecting to be feeding a baby would want to be in a fairly discreet part of the restaurant anyway as they woudn't much enjoy baring their breast and feeding the baby in the full glare of everyone elses attention. Only exhibitionists, idiots and activists would think otherwise.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.0 -
If you look at the detail it isn't much of a naval base mainly some barracks and a few offices plus a warehouse or two. We have had a permanent naval presence in the gulf for a couple of decades now so its probably sensible for the shore facilities to match the reality. In any event the capital cost is being covered by Bahrain.Speedy said:
I though that Britain withdrew from east of suez because of lack of money, these days there is even a bigger lack of money and the price of oil has dropped almost 50%, so why build a base and with what money?Paul_Mid_Beds said:Changing the subject. Britain are going to build a permanent naval base in Bahrain
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/06/britain-first-middle-eastern-military-base-bahrain0 -
If you think sexual self gratification and breast feeding a hungry infant are equivalent, then you really do live in a strange world.AndyJS said:
Would it be okay for a man to start w*nking in the middle of a restaurant? It's natural, and he shouldn't be made to feel ashamed of his body by feeling he ought to resist his urges.Alistair said:
Yes, women should be ashamed of their body and their gender.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Any woman (or couple) with any intelligence or decorum expecting to be feeding a baby would want to be in a fairly discreet part of the restaurant anyway as they woudn't much enjoy baring their breast and feeding the baby in the full glare of everyone elses attention. Only exhibitionists, idiots and activists would think otherwise.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Congratulations on winning the worst ever analogy on PB award though.0 -
So presumably if I get a hair caught in a very tender and private place while in a restaurant I should just unzip my flies, get my right honourable member out and remove the hair in front of everyone (rather than going to the toilet and doing it) because going to the toilet to do it implies that I am ashamed of my body and gender?Alistair said:
Yes, women should be ashamed of their body and their gender.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Any woman (or couple) with any intelligence or decorum expecting to be feeding a baby would want to be in a fairly discreet part of the restaurant anyway as they woudn't much enjoy baring their breast and feeding the baby in the full glare of everyone elses attention. Only exhibitionists, idiots and activists would think otherwise.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.0 -
"It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men"MikeSmithson said:What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.
I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/
Emailed you the membership form0 -
I imagine that Claridge's policy is that neither men nor women should be topless in the hotel. If that's the case, then I don't think the waiter would breach any law by asking the mother to cover up.Socrates said:
Asking breastfeeding women to make sure their breasts are covered up isn't discriminating against them. We apply the same rules to all women.JosiasJessop said:
It appears to be illegal to stop them, or discriminate against them:Speedy said:
What are the present standards for breastfeeding in restaurants?
Or there's no particular standard?
"The new Equality Act says that it is sex discrimination to treat a woman unfavourably because she is breastfeeding. It applies to anyone providing services, benefits, facilities and premises to the public, public bodies, further and higher education bodies and association. Service providers include most organisations that deal directly with the public. Service providers must not discriminate, harass or victimise a woman because she is breastfeeding. Discrimination includes refusing to provide a service, providing a lower standard of service or providing a service on different terms. Therefore, a cafe owner cannot ask you to stop breastfeeding or refuse to serve you."
http://www.maternityaction.org.uk/wp/advice-2/mums-dads-scenarios/6-breastfeeding-rights/breastfeeding-in-public-places/
Enlightened Scotland goes further:
"In Scotland a person has a right to breastfeed or bottle feed a child under two and it is a criminal offence to try to stop or to prevent a woman from feeding a child under two in any place in which the public has access and in which a child under two is entitled to be. Anyone who tries to stop or prevent a person feeding milk to a child under the age of two can be prosecuted and can face a claim under the Equality Act."
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Shave them before hand and they won't get caught.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
So presumably if I get a hair caught in a very tender and private place while in a restaurant I should just unzip my flies, get my right honourable member out and remove the hair in front of everyone (rather than going to the toilet and doing it) because going to the toilet to do it implies that I am ashamed of my body and gender?Alistair said:
Yes, women should be ashamed of their body and their gender.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Any woman (or couple) with any intelligence or decorum expecting to be feeding a baby would want to be in a fairly discreet part of the restaurant anyway as they woudn't much enjoy baring their breast and feeding the baby in the full glare of everyone elses attention. Only exhibitionists, idiots and activists would think otherwise.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.0 -
Moobs aren't very attractive.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Alistair, as an aside, it's curious that breasts are seen as all racy and sexy on women, but far less risqué on men (ie men walking about shirtless, whilst uncouth, is not seen in nearly the same light as women doing likewise).
Is this bad for women (their body is seen as more sexual) or for men (being naked from the waist up is seen as acceptable)? [Or for neither, of course]. Imagine if it were reversed.
Mind you, women bare their midriffs and legs much more.0 -
Labour problems mount:
Not only is Scotland giving Labour trouble, a new one has emerged from an unlikely source: London.
Based on this weeks average Yougov sub-sample figures [ usual caveats ] and UNS, Labour remain on 38 seats, Con improve from 28 to 32 and LD drop from 7 to 3.0 -
The parts of the body normally covered up are those which emit body fluids. While these days they are covered up for modesty reasons, I suspect the original reasons for covering up were (a) for hygiene and (b) to prevent infection/abrasion as they are quite delicate. Hence women covering up there but not men.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Alistair, as an aside, it's curious that breasts are seen as all racy and sexy on women, but far less risqué on men (ie men walking about shirtless, whilst uncouth, is not seen in nearly the same light as women doing likewise).
Is this bad for women (their body is seen as more sexual) or for men (being naked from the waist up is seen as acceptable)? [Or for neither, of course]. Imagine if it were reversed.
Mind you, women bare their midriffs and legs much more.0 -
It may be better to not risk it, by not unzipping your flies in a dining area in the first place.0
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As someone said on the previous thread, it's a morality that's built up since Victorian times. Before then, the female breast was not seen in quite the same way. For instance Nell Gwyn and others.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Alistair, as an aside, it's curious that breasts are seen as all racy and sexy on women, but far less risqué on men (ie men walking about shirtless, whilst uncouth, is not seen in nearly the same light as women doing likewise).
Is this bad for women (their body is seen as more sexual) or for men (being naked from the waist up is seen as acceptable)? [Or for neither, of course]. Imagine if it were reversed.
Mind you, women bare their midriffs and legs much more.
(some of the poor fellows should not click on this link, lest they get upset):
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2050520/Nell-Gwyn-portrait-Topless-painting-Charles-IIs-mistress-display.html
It's an artificial taboo built up over the years. Whether it's right or wrong is something that even feminists cannot agree on ...0 -
In the week the Tories emphasised a UKIP candidates Turkish heritage in a poster saying he wasn't from round here, next to photo of Islamic extremists.. it made all the national papers, but no one on here criticised it, except kippers, and Antifrank.
On Friday Farage said he wasn't at all bothered by women for breastfeeding in public, and supporters of every other party trip over each other to condemn it.
Ah progressives and liberals eh? Such principled and high minded beasts0 -
Diogenes the Cynic used to do just that. His view was that it was nothing to be ashamed of.AndyJS said:
Would it be okay for a man to start w*nking in the middle of a restaurant? It's natural, and he shouldn't be made to feel ashamed of his body by feeling he ought to resist his urges.Alistair said:
Yes, women should be ashamed of their body and their gender.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Any woman (or couple) with any intelligence or decorum expecting to be feeding a baby would want to be in a fairly discreet part of the restaurant anyway as they woudn't much enjoy baring their breast and feeding the baby in the full glare of everyone elses attention. Only exhibitionists, idiots and activists would think otherwise.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:
"frenzied glorification" ? FFS.AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Let's paint a scenario. A woman has a baby. A couple of months later, she arranges to meet friends in a local pub/cafe. They start eating, and then the baby starts crying because it is hungry.
What some would have them do is for all the friends to move to a corner where they would be out of the way (if one is available). Because, of course, other patrons may get the lurgy off a breastfeeding woman. Some say a corner is not enough, and they should move to a toilet or changing room.
(If you think this is a good idea, may I suggest you visit a changing room and sit down it for half an hour (or normally stand as many do not have chairs), whilst cradling a 7-kilo weight to your chest. Likewise a toilet cubicle).
It's likely that such an experience would prevent her from ever visiting that establishment again. Her friends likely would not visit as well. Perhaps that's the desired outcome?
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.0 -
only the hairs still attached. Its the newly detached ones that cause most of the trouble and discomfort.......TheScreamingEagles said:
Shave them before hand and they won't get caught.0 -
The latest poll gives the Conservatives below 30% again and the Lib Dems tied with the Greens on 6% and just five months to go. The Conversation on Political Betting is about breast feeding. Just saying.0
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YesNinoinoz said:
Nope, I just want to see the film without having a baby crying in my ear or just eat a meal without having a baby farting within earshot.JosiasJessop said:
Yep, as I thought, you want to marginalise women. At least you are being honest about it ...Ninoinoz said:
Look mate, if people have paid very good money for a service, they have a right to enjoy it in peace and quiet.JosiasJessop said:
Anyone making a comparison between breast feeding and going to the toilet is being extremely cr@p.Ninoinoz said:
As a new father, surely you recognise the truth of the old saw 'garbage in, garbage out' in regard to new babies?JosiasJessop said:
Why would you find it uncomfortable? And why does your feeling uncomfortable mean that a woman has to be treated as a second-class citizen (which she surely is if she is forced to move)?AndyJS said:
I don't mind seeing someone breastfeeding in public myself, but if I was going out for a special occasion with parents or grandparents and someone at the next table started breastfeeding I'd find it a bit uncomfortable.JosiasJessop said:AndyJS said:Melissa Kite:
"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/
Millions of other people would probably feel the same.
Perhaps, if you are uncomfortable, you should be the one to move.
Certainly, I haven't heard anyone defending defecating in the middle of Claridge's.
Or does forcing people to use toilets mean they are being treated as second class citizens?
Besides, as babies can do their business at any time, what you are saying is that babies should not be taken into public places ...
There are mother and baby screening for those with young children, or find a babysitter.
Is this too much to ask?0 -
He didn't say they were equivalent. He just used it as an extreme example to show how wanting to maintain modesty is not the same as being "ashamed of your body", to use Alistair's ridiculous hyperbole about women who want to cover their breasts when feeding.TheScreamingEagles said:
If you think sexual self gratification and breast feeding a hungry infant are equivalent, then you really do live in a strange world.
Congratulations on winning the worst ever analogy on PB award though.
People here are making the usual moronic remarks whenever Farage says something. If he was asked "should dogs be allowed to play in children's parks" and responded "yes, as long as they aren't aggressive with children and the owner's pick up after them", then you can just imagine the response. The Guardian would headline a piece with "Farage says dogowners must stop being 'aggressive with children'". David Cameron and Ed Miliband would release statements saying how the anti-pet owner attitudes revealed by UKIP are 'abominable' and 'unBritish'. The New Statesman would write a column about UKIP's anti-dog attitude being symptomatic of how they like to be cruel to animals. Some left-wing animal rights group would stage a protest in central London. And posters on PB would keep making oh-so-funny sly comments about how UKIP want dogs locked up in cages at home.0
This discussion has been closed.