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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The key target for the Tories – those LAB voters in the marginals who are satisfied with Dave and want him as PM

The data in the chart above is from the aggregate 12k sample from the latest batch of Lord Ashcroft CON held LAB facing marginals to be published. I’ve highlighted four key groups who could influence the election in the most important seats of all – CON defences against LAB.

Read the full story here

Morris_Dancer

Interesting stats, Mr. Smithson.

As the election looms closer people may well start considering it more seriously. It won't be a case of 'who would you want' but 'who do you want'.

Luckyguy1983

FPT on competing with emerging economies:

david_herdson said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

david_herdson said:

As for how do we earn higher standards of living? The answer's simple and the same as it always was: efficiency and innovation.

Those two concepts by definition cannot be the only answer. Efficiency -waste slightly less over the lifetime of the process. Fine, but there can be no efficiency that is an answer to someone working for 6p a week. Innovation -again fine, but in the longer term there's no reason why these other countries cannot innovate to the same degree that we can.

They've worked well enough for the last 250 years or so.

I disagree that you can't compete with someone earning 6p/week. The North outcompeted the antebellum South. Countries with economies based on minimal wages have no incentive (and no capacity) to invest in pretty much anything and are therefore stuck.

Other countries can indeed innovate to the same degree and for that matter, a greater one. But there's no reason why they have to. In any case, you don't need to do better than everyone else, you just need to push the boundaries in enough areas to keep going; where you're behind globally, you can borrow others' innovations.

So yes, those two factors are just about it. Of course, there are a lot of factors within them. I could have mentioned productivity, for example, but the two over-arching points encompass it.

For the last 250 years or so, we have benefited from being the first to:
-have an agrarian revolution
-develop a modern banking system
-have an industrial revolution
-have the military and economic power to exploit the resources, both human and natural on foreign soils (mainly India)
1850 being the peak of it -after that other countries began to catch up.

Since then, by and large, we've been spending that capital.

You're kidding yourself if you believe there is some sort of 'Western' or even 'British' miracle that entitles us to be wealthy in the face of foreign competitors who have not only far more flexible labour markets, but blue chip companies, more rigorous education systems, etc.

We're running out of time and money. Everything else is just hot air.

Danny565

A lot of people seemingly want a Labour government led by Cameron. I.e. Cameron doing the international statesman events and "representing Britain" at EU summits, but Labour in charge of all domestic policies and public services.

Luckyguy1983

Danny565 said:

A lot of people seemingly want a Labour government led by Cameron. I.e. Cameron doing the international statesman events and "representing Britain" at EU summits, but Labour in charge of all domestic policies and public services.

Sounds like a total disaster on both fronts.

Carnyx

FPT

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Carnyx said:

JohnLilburne said:

Carnyx said:

TGOHF said:

roserees64 said:

Why did David Cameron, ex deer hunter,ask armed police to seal off a woodland in Oxfordshire so he could shoot pigeons? Surely he had better things to do such as trying to run the country.He must be pleased that after the next election he will have more time for stag hunts once again!

Perhaps he fancied pigeon for tea ? Delicious !

Quite, and I like it too. But Mr C could have picked it up from one of the butchers in Oxford Covered Market, if not Witney, at a fraction to the cost of himself never mind the state.

I don't see why he shouldn't find time for recreation. Should we ban Prime Ministers from normal activities (OK so pigeon shooting is a bit of a minority interest, but the same would have happened if he had gone for a run) just because of the need for security?

Hmm. Thinking about your comment, I'd say the difference is that he can't pay someone else to go for a run - he has to do that himself! And it is reasonable therefore for him to do that even with an escort. Whereas he does not have to actually shoot the pigeons to have them for dinner. Interesting though he should choose to do it - maybe he is making a point the equivalent of Mr M and his bacon sandwich.

Of course by shooting pigeons he is also contributing to pest control as the pigeon is the number one agricultural pest bird. One might consider it an act of public service.

Quite so - as with deer. Which is why I am happy to eat them. But, one wonders, what would you say if Mr Cameron spent time rat-catching?!

Exactly the same. Except for the fact that you can't eat them. I shoot on an ad hoc basis and my own personal rules are that I will never shoot anything we do not eat - the exceptions being rats and magpies. I would not even shoot pigeon if it weer not that my daughter and wife both love eating them. Can't stand them myself.

Admirably logical, and I am not sure you would want to try the (author tested!) recipe for ship's rat in this naval cookery book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lobscouse-Spotted-Dog-Gastronomic-Companion/dp/0393320944

rottenborough

This is an interesting bit of analysis, but I'm a little sceptical. Voters often find it hard to envision the other guy as PM. And in this case that is clearly harder than is sometimes the case, although not without precedent (look at Wilson in 1960s) or all the talk of Bambi when Blair became leader. Mrs Thatcher was not exactly widely seen as PM material. Interestingly, Blair followed Smith as leader, when the latter died unexpectedly - at the time all the talk was of what a great PM had been lost.

FrancisUrquhart

Let me get this right 30% of Lab voters and 28% of Lib Dem to Labour switches want Cameron....you what....you what...you what you what you what?

That is just bonkers. Obviously there are a small number of people who will vote because of their constituency MP is really good / really bad, I have certainly done that in the past, but nearly 1 in 3 !!!

Oh yeah don't want that Ed Miliband near the levers of power, Cameron would be much better. Who you voting, oh Labour.

MikeK

WENGER MUST GO........NOW

rottenborough

FrancisUrquhart said:

Let me get this right 30% of Lab voters and 28% of Lib Dem to Labour switches want Cameron....you what....you what...you what you what you what?

That is just bonkers. Obviously there are a small number of people who will vote because of their constituency MP is really good / really bad, I have certainly done that in the past, but nearly 1 in 3 !!!

Oh yeah don't want that Ed Miliband near the levers of power, Cameron would be much better. Who you voting, oh Labour.

Seems to fit what people are saying on the doorsteps if some Labour MPs are to be believed. But I'm still sceptical of reading too much into this.

MarkSenior

FrancisUrquhart said:

Let me get this right 30% of Lab voters and 28% of Lib Dem to Labour switches want Cameron....you what....you what...you what you what you what?

That is just bonkers. Obviously there are a small number of people who will vote because of their constituency MP is really good / really bad, I have certainly done that in the past, but nearly 1 in 3 !!!

Oh yeah don't want that Ed Miliband near the levers of power, Cameron would be much better. Who you voting, oh Labour.

No those people do not necessarily WANT Cameron , they just PREFER him to the alternative EdM . They may actually want someone else such as Thatcher or Churchill . Their preference for Cameron may not be great enough for them to change their voting intention .

Stark_Dawning

FrancisUrquhart said:

Let me get this right 30% of Lab voters and 28% of Lib Dem to Labour switches want Cameron....you what....you what...you what you what you what?

That is just bonkers. Obviously there are a small number of people who will vote because of their constituency MP is really good / really bad, I have certainly done that in the past, but nearly 1 in 3 !!!

Oh yeah don't want that Ed Miliband near the levers of power, Cameron would be much better. Who you voting, oh Labour.

Yes, it's a strange phenomenon. Actually, there are quite a few hard-Left voters kicking around who say that John Major was the best prime minister of the last forty years - heart in the right place, conciliatory, just a bit hapless. Contrast with the pure neo-liberal evil of Thatcher/Blair/Brown/Cameron.

rottenborough

Talking of marginal seats, Labour's Progress campaign group has Flight - a target of 9 seats where the incumbent Tory or LD is standing down. Includes Erewash, which is not a million miles from Rotten HQ.

http://www.progressonline.org.uk/campaigns/operation-flight/

PClipp

FrancisUrquhart said:

Let me get this right 30% of Lab voters and 28% of Lib Dem to Labour switches want Cameron....you what....you what...you what you what you what?

That is just bonkers. Obviously there are a small number of people who will vote because of their constituency MP is really good / really bad, I have certainly done that in the past, but nearly 1 in 3 !!!

Oh yeah don't want that Ed Miliband near the levers of power, Cameron would be much better. Who you voting, oh Labour.

Not bonkers at all, Francis. Given a forced choice question, I would prefer Cameron to Miliband as PM.

But the reality is that I do not WANT either of them. So I shall not vote for either of them. As it happens, neither of them is planning to stand in my constituency (as far as I know), so I couldn´t anyway.

I shall be voting on the basis of the sort of government I want to see - which is a Lib Dem-influenced one.

Alistair

FTPT

AndyJS said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

There are far far more important matters to worry about than Farage's comment on breast feeding. This is just tittle tattle by "outraged of Dun-in-the-wold". The important statements from Farage are about the party's policies.

Once again it shows how clever Farage is in making the political elite seem out of touch by getting them to obsess over a relatively minor issue for most voters.

Really? I think a lot of people see this as exposing the frankly unpleasant views of Farage.

It's not 'obsessing' to point out that Farage is saying something that the vast majority of the population disagree with.

FrancisUrquhart

What you wont here from the "utterly terrified" BBC...

Labour’s spending as a proportion of GDP in 1998 - 36%

The Coalition’s projected spending in 2019-20 - 35.2%

ydoethur

@Luckyguy1983‌

'have the military and economic power to exploit the resources, both human and natural on foreign soils (mainly India)
1850 being the peak of it -after that other countries began to catch up.

Since then, by and large, we've been spending that capital. '

I think you'll find, actually, if you look closely, that our economy has grown considerably since 1850. In fact, one of the things that has always puzzled economic historians is why political historians speak of Britain's 'decline' in the twentieth century when its economy grew fourfold and national income (and also average incomes) increased rapidly in both real and absolute terms.

Partly these ideas spring from the 1970s, which under a series of weak political regimes and in the face of an aggressive, even bullying union movement, were a bad decade economically and shook national self-confidence extremely badly. A truer perspective on that did not start emerging until the 1990s, by which time the idea had entered popular consciousness and is proving hard to shift. But I think also it is simply that most political historians tend to look at Britain's world influence and didn't notice that, rather than declining, all that was happening was that, as was inevitable, the size of Russia and the USA, and more recently China, would lead to us falling behind them.

There is an entirely different point to be made - which is that despite our economy growing so rapidly, we have spent far beyond what it can actually afford because 'what we can pay for' is not a match for what people actually wanted. In particular, the non-contributory principle of the NHS, which Bevan later admitted he had adopted despite being aware it would lead to a more expensive service providing poorer outcomes than a payment according to means structure simply because he wanted to justify confiscatory taxation on the rich, has been an economic and social fiasco. It is also one that will, I very much fear, condemn us to bankruptcy because despite its shortcomings it is such a popular mistake that no politician in a democratic state can undo it.

But that's separate from the size of the British economy - and it is again instructive to realize that in absolute terms, our manufacturing base is as large as it has ever been, and certainly far larger than it was in 1850 when it was barely bigger than agriculture (which itself is more productive than it was then).

peter_from_putney

MikeK said:

WENGER MUST GO........NOW

Return to go and collect £20M in compensation ...... is this what you are advocating Mike? Arsenal made their call when they awarded Wenger with a new £8M per annum contract in the summer, they simply have to grin and bear him now.

shiney2

Alistair said:

It's not 'obsessing' to point out that Farage is saying something that the vast majority of the population disagree with.

His only expressed personal view on public breastfeeding was "it didn't bother him".

http://www.lbc.co.uk/watch-nigel-farage-live-on-lbc-96464

I doubt "the vast majority of the population disagree with" this.

Why you think this personal view is "frankly unpleasant" is quite odd.

MikeK

peter_from_putney said:

MikeK said:

WENGER MUST GO........NOW

Return to go and collect £20M in compensation ...... is this what you are advocating Mike? Arsenal made their call when they awarded Wenger with a new £8M per annum contract in the summer, they simply have to grin and bear him now.

The owners and management may have to suffer from their mistake; the fans don't have to. Expect trouble big time if Arsenal slip further down the league table.

MikeK

Just saw this:

Memz Dogi ‏@Memz_Dogi 44m44 minutes ago
Dear Arsene, Do the honourable thing tonight and stand down.... Oh and please take your Wengerites lovers with you. Thanks. Best Regards

Luckyguy1983

ydoethur said:

I think you'll find, actually, if you look closely, that our economy has grown considerably since 1850. In fact, one of the things that has always puzzled economic historians is why political historians speak of Britain's 'decline' in the twentieth century when its economy grew fourfold and national income (and also average incomes) increased rapidly in both real and absolute terms.

Partly these ideas spring from the 1970s, which under a series of weak political regimes and in the face of an aggressive, even bullying union movement, were a bad decade economically and shook national self-confidence extremely badly. A truer perspective on that did not start emerging until the 1990s, by which time the idea had entered popular consciousness and is proving hard to shift. But I think also it is simply that most political historians tend to look at Britain's world influence and didn't notice that, rather than declining, all that was happening was that, as was inevitable, the size of Russia and the USA, and more recently China, would lead to us falling behind them.

There is an entirely different point to be made - which is that despite our economy growing so rapidly, we have spent far beyond what it can actually afford because 'what we can pay for' is not a match for what people actually wanted. In particular, the non-contributory principle of the NHS, which Bevan later admitted he had adopted despite being aware it would lead to a more expensive service providing poorer outcomes than a payment according to means structure simply because he wanted to justify confiscatory taxation on the rich, has been an economic and social fiasco. It is also one that will, I very much fear, condemn us to bankruptcy because despite its shortcomings it is such a popular mistake that no politician in a democratic state can undo it.

But that's separate from the size of the British economy - and it is again instructive to realize that in absolute terms, our manufacturing base is as large as it has ever been, and certainly far larger than it was in 1850 when it was barely bigger than agriculture (which itself is more productive than it was then).

Great information, but irrelevant to the discussion -national decline is relative, hence I said competitors began catching up.

HYUFD

Interestingly the Tories have won over slightly more Labour voters since 2010 than they have lost, it is because of the losses to UKIP they are behind or only neck and neck. Most of the LDs who are going to switch to the Tories have already done so, so as this chart makes clear they should target Labour and UKIP voters who want Cameron to remain as PM

HYUFD

Clegg's Christmas card suggests he is thinking of his post-election career options
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11275371/Seasons-greetings-or-subliminal-messages-Party-leaders-Christmas-cards-revealed.html

Paul_Mid_Beds

Luckyguy1983 said:

For the last 250 years or so, we have benefited from being the first to:
-have an agrarian revolution
-develop a modern banking system
-have an industrial revolution
-have the military and economic power to exploit the resources, both human and natural on foreign soils (mainly India)
1850 being the peak of it -after that other countries began to catch up.

Since then, by and large, we've been spending that capital.

You're kidding yourself if you believe there is some sort of 'Western' or even 'British' miracle that entitles us to be wealthy in the face of foreign competitors who have not only far more flexible labour markets, but blue chip companies, more rigorous education systems, etc.

We're running out of time and money. Everything else is just hot air.

Yes the problem is that for the last 100 years we have been run by Liberals and Socialists who find having "the military and economic power [and using it] to exploit the resources, both human and natural on foreign soils utterly obnoxious while simulataeously thinking everyone has the right to a lifestyle that can only be funded by having and using the "the military and economic power to exploit the resources, both human and natural on foreign soils"

One result is that every single Labour majority government has been kicked out after the country went through an economic crisis. Attlee's after the Balance of Payments Crisis, Wilson after the 1960s devaluation, Callaghan after we had to call in the IMF and Blair/Brown in 2010 after the great banking crisis made far worse here by Brown running an economic deficit in the (debt fuelled) boom before 2007.

The sad fact is that the choice the country faces in 2015 a choice between national bankruptcy and shafting of the bottom 20%.

Not enough of the other 80% will be compassionate enough towards the poor to be prepared to endure national and consequently personal bankruptcy; so Labour won't win and the tories will be the largest party and may even scrape a majoirty. Ironically if Gideon had turned round the deficit and produced a boom, enough idiots would feel comfortable enough to take a risk with Labour.

A lot of those 20% who will get shafted after 2015 are feckless and lazy and have only themselves to blame. I have no sympathy for them at all. However there are some who will be unfairly hurt. Unfortunately that's life and if the state didn't interfere so much, people would have more of their money left to direct to charities helping the deserving poor.

HYUFD

Matthew Parris 'A small state should be celebrated not feared', but the Tories have yet to make the intellectual case
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4289377.ece

peter_from_putney

MikeK said:

peter_from_putney said:

MikeK said:

WENGER MUST GO........NOW

Return to go and collect £20M in compensation ...... is this what you are advocating Mike? Arsenal made their call when they awarded Wenger with a new £8M per annum contract in the summer, they simply have to grin and bear him now.

The owners and management may have to suffer from their mistake; the fans don't have to. Expect trouble big time if Arsenal slip further down the league table.

My guess is that Wenger will do a deal with the Arsenal Board for around half his contractual entitlement - he's far too proud a man to hang around somewhere he's not appreciated, even if he was responsible for them being in a position to construct a terrific £400m brand new stadium. You Arsenal "fans" should be on your knees for what he has achieved at the club. It's not Arsenal's divine right always to be at or near the top of the Premier League ..... perhaps it's their turn for a few years in the shade.

HYUFD

Salmond presently ahead of Farage in PoliticsUK Politician of the Year poll
http://puknews.co.uk/puk-politician-year-2014/

peter_from_putney

If the Tories are to win the next GE or have any prospect of doing do, one feels they need to make a positive and sustained move in the polls over the next few weeks, it simply isn't feasible for them to play catch-up during the campaign itself.

Luckyguy1983

Alistair said:

FTPT

AndyJS said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

There are far far more important matters to worry about than Farage's comment on breast feeding. This is just tittle tattle by "outraged of Dun-in-the-wold". The important statements from Farage are about the party's policies.

Once again it shows how clever Farage is in making the political elite seem out of touch by getting them to obsess over a relatively minor issue for most voters.

Really? I think a lot of people see this as exposing the frankly unpleasant views of Farage.

It's not 'obsessing' to point out that Farage is saying something that the vast majority of the population disagree with.

Yes, Guardian readers think that! And long may they try and make 'hay' with it. Complete idiots.

HYUFD

Peter John Major won playing catch-up until polling day in 1992

HYUFD

StarkDowning Major was left of Thatcher, and Cameron on most things except grammar schools, maybe even Blair on both domestic and foreign policy, however he was certainly right of Brown in terms of spending and keeping a lower top tax rate

HYUFD

ydoethur Decline is talked about entirely in terms of the loss of the British Empire, which moved us from a superpower alongside the US and Soviet Union, to a middle rank nation. In terms of standards of living though we have actually seen some improvement

HYUFD

PaulMidBeds Had Osborne produced a surplus and economic boom by now then Cameron, like John Key in New Zealand, would almost certainly get a majority. The fact we have more years of austerity to come means a Tory-LD coalition is the most likely outcome in my view, ensuring economic discipline but with the LDs there to ensure the Tories do not solely hammer the poor

Charles

shiney2 said:

Alistair said:

It's not 'obsessing' to point out that Farage is saying something that the vast majority of the population disagree with.

His only expressed personal view on public breastfeeding was "it didn't bother him".

http://www.lbc.co.uk/watch-nigel-farage-live-on-lbc-96464

I doubt "the vast majority of the population disagree with" this.

Why you think this personal view is "frankly unpleasant" is quite odd.

Didn't he say "she should have gone and sat in the corner", which is pretty denigrating. I suspect he's a mild misogynist.

O/T just had a glorious day in Cumbria with an old friennd of mine from Northern Ireland. SImply blissful, but now absolutely knackered and need to change for dinner

Luckyguy1983

Paul_Mid_Beds said:

Yes the problem is that for the last 100 years we have been run by Liberals and Socialists who find having "the military and economic power [and using it] to exploit the resources, both human and natural on foreign soils utterly obnoxious while simulataeously thinking everyone has the right to a lifestyle that can only be funded by having and using the "the military and economic power to exploit the resources, both human and natural on foreign soils"

One result is that every single Labour majority government has been kicked out after the country went through an economic crisis. Attlee's after the Balance of Payments Crisis, Wilson after the 1960s devaluation, Callaghan after we had to call in the IMF and Blair/Brown in 2010 after the great banking crisis made far worse here by Brown running an economic deficit in the (debt fuelled) boom before 2007.

The sad fact is that the choice the country faces in 2015 a choice between national bankruptcy and shafting of the bottom 20%.

Not enough of the other 80% will be compassionate enough towards the poor to be prepared to endure national and consequently personal bankruptcy; so Labour won't win and the tories will be the largest party and may even scrape a majoirty. Ironically if Gideon had turned round the deficit and produced a boom, enough idiots would feel comfortable enough to take a risk with Labour.

A lot of those 20% who will get shafted after 2015 are feckless and lazy and have only themselves to blame. I have no sympathy for them at all. However there are some who will be unfairly hurt. Unfortunately that's life and if the state didn't interfere so much, people would have more of their money left to direct to charities helping the deserving poor.

I agree with much of what you say, but I'm not as optimistic as you about the prospects for the economy if the Cameron clique survives this election. They have shown a chilling determination to ensure that the country continues to haemorrhage money from every possible outlet, be it fighting America's wars, borrowing to give foreign aid to countries with space programmes, caving into the EU's demands for extra cash etc. etc. etc. People don't seem to realise this isn't just fictional money, it's being paid for by them. I expect Cameron and Osborne to have us in IMF-ville almost as quickly as Ed would.

MikeSmithson

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

fitalass

Peter, I have to disagree, its Christmas time and the voters will simple switch off until the New Year. Also, we are still six months away from the GE, and a very good election campaign can make a real difference to those vital floating voters.

My oldest son was polled by Populus via his mobile on Tuesday, and turns out it was a very lengthy survey. It sounds like it might have been another one of those mega Lord Ashcroft marginals poll. He was asked both Westminster and Holyrood voting intentions, also constituency voting intention with all the candidates so far selected in West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine named. Also asked to rate a variety of politicians from both Westminster and Holyrood, and asked whether his voting intention could change between now and the GE due to specific policies etc.

peter_from_putney said:

If the Tories are to win the next GE or have any prospect of doing do, one feels they need to make a positive and sustained move in the polls over the next few weeks, it simply isn't feasible for them to play catch-up during the campaign itself.

Luckyguy1983

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!

Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html

Flightpath

fitalass said:

Peter, I have to disagree, its Christmas time and the voters will simple switch off until the New Year. Also, we are still six months away from the GE, and a very good election campaign can make a real difference to those vital floating voters.

My oldest son was polled by Populus via his mobile on Tuesday, and turns out it was a very lengthy survey. It sounds like it might have been another one of those mega Lord Ashcroft marginals poll. He was asked both Westminster and Holyrood voting intentions, also constituency voting intention with all the candidates so far selected in West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine named. Also asked to rate a variety of politicians from both Westminster and Holyrood, and asked whether his voting intention could change between now and the GE due to specific policies etc.

peter_from_putney said:

If the Tories are to win the next GE or have any prospect of doing do, one feels they need to make a positive and sustained move in the polls over the next few weeks, it simply isn't feasible for them to play catch-up during the campaign itself.

Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle comes to mind

TheScreamingEagles

Luckyguy1983 said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!

Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html

Awww bless, using Daily Mail comments rather going for real polling that shows a majority of the public think it is generally acceptable for women to breast feed in public and restaurants.

peter_from_putney

HYUFD said:

Peter John Major won playing catch-up until polling day in 1992

But Major didn't have the likes of UKIP to contend with and unlike Cameron he was generally well liked.

rcs1000

"Allowing blacks into restaurants doesn't bother me, of course, but I can understand why blacks ostentatiously coming into restaurants and being expected to be treated like normal people would upset some people."

MarqueeMark

HYUFD said:

PaulMidBeds Had Osborne produced a surplus and economic boom by now then Cameron, like John Key in New Zealand, would almost certainly get a majority. The fact we have more years of austerity to come means a Tory-LD coalition is the most likely outcome in my view, ensuring economic discipline but with the LDs there to ensure the Tories do not solely hammer the poor

Hammering the poor by, er, taking 3.5 million of them out of tax? If that's a hammering, then where do the middle classes sign up?

peter_from_putney

fitalass said:

Peter, I have to disagree, its Christmas time and the voters will simple switch off until the New Year. Also, we are still six months away from the GE, and a very good election campaign can make a real difference to those vital floating voters.

My oldest son was polled by Populus via his mobile on Tuesday, and turns out it was a very lengthy survey. It sounds like it might have been another one of those mega Lord Ashcroft marginals poll. He was asked both Westminster and Holyrood voting intentions, also constituency voting intention with all the candidates so far selected in West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine named. Also asked to rate a variety of politicians from both Westminster and Holyrood, and asked whether his voting intention could change between now and the GE due to specific policies etc.

peter_from_putney said:

If the Tories are to win the next GE or have any prospect of doing do, one feels they need to make a positive and sustained move in the polls over the next few weeks, it simply isn't feasible for them to play catch-up during the campaign itself.

Fitalass ..... try counting on the fingers ..... we're barely FIVE months from the GE, which is actually my point, the Blues really are now seriously at risk of running out of time.

Luckyguy1983

TheScreamingEagles said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!

Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html

Awww bless, using Daily Mail comments rather going for real polling that shows a majority of the public think it is generally acceptable for women to breast feed in public and restaurants.

Everyone's happy then -you continue to believe you've hit a rich seam of public horror and bash on, I'll continue to find it hilariously misguided. Bless you too by the way.

JosiasJessop

Luckyguy1983 said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!

Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html

I think the Scottish Indy shows us that having the most vociferous people on-line does not equate to winning the argument.

MarqueeMark

peter_from_putney said:

If the Tories are to win the next GE or have any prospect of doing do, one feels they need to make a positive and sustained move in the polls over the next few weeks, it simply isn't feasible for them to play catch-up during the campaign itself.

I take a very different view on that Peter. I really believe the campaign is where the election will be lost by Labour. And the Kippers will have ample opportunity to shoot off their feet with high calibre weaponry. If Farage can make a tit of himself over breast-feeding, God alone knows what he can say over the NHS....

Sean_F

Luckyguy1983 said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!

Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html

Mr. Farage tends to say publicly what many, perhaps most, Conservatives say privately.

TheScreamingEagles

Luckyguy1983 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!

Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html

Awww bless, using Daily Mail comments rather going for real polling that shows a majority of the public think it is generally acceptable for women to breast feed in public and restaurants.

Everyone's happy then -you continue to believe you've hit a rich seam of public horror and bash on, I'll continue to find it hilariously misguided. Bless you too by the way.

I always find it amusing when Kippers say they are the ones in tune with public and the liberal metropolitan elite aren't, except the polling backs the LME.

My own feeling, it won't shift any VI, but I encourage more breasts in politics, one of my favourite political memories was when the good ladies of "Breasts not bombs" decided to protest outside our offices back in 2003.

I'm hoping for something similar outside UKIP HQ

fitalass

"This Farage one is an example of both: it hits out at Ukip for their perceived flakiness — expect to see much more of this in the coming months — while reminding voters that Ukip also has a problem with female voters."

Farage has yet again reinforced another UKIP anti women meme with his ignorant response to breast feeding women in public.

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

HYUFD

Peter But he was preferred to Kinnock as Cameron is to Miliband

TheScreamingEagles

Sean_F said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!

Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html

Mr. Farage tends to say publicly what many, perhaps most, Conservatives say privately.

The polling disagrees with you, last a year poll found that a majority of current Tories and 2010 Tories thought it was generally acceptable for women to breast feed in public/in restaurants.

Alistair

shiney2 said:

Alistair said:

It's not 'obsessing' to point out that Farage is saying something that the vast majority of the population disagree with.

His only expressed personal view on public breastfeeding was "it didn't bother him".

http://www.lbc.co.uk/watch-nigel-farage-live-on-lbc-96464

I doubt "the vast majority of the population disagree with" this.

Why you think this personal view is "frankly unpleasant" is quite odd.

The notion that women should be stopped from breast feeding in public taps into the deep unpleasant vein that women should be ashamed of their bodies, need to cover up, be 'modest' and hide away.

It is a deeply unpleasant, regressive view on all women - not just nursing mothers. And last I checked women make up 50% of the voting population. Farage must be targeting all those men-only constituencies.

Scrapheap_as_was

MikeK said:

WENGER MUST GO........NOW

We'll have him....

It must be hell being in the Champs League so often.

Luckyguy1983

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!

Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html

I think the Scottish Indy shows us that having the most vociferous people on-line does not equate to winning the argument.

Well, perhaps UKIP have 7000+ activists dedicated to the task of up-arrowing comments like the following:

'Breast feed in comfort and privacy - it's Common Sense really - to many people shouting about 'their rights' etc. Be modest in your dealings.'

Or perhaps it's just that the DM has once again completely failed to convince its readers to be outraged that Claridge's asked this lady to cover up and Farage agrees.

MarqueeMark

HYUFD said:

Clegg's Christmas card suggests he is thinking of his post-election career options
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11275371/Seasons-greetings-or-subliminal-messages-Party-leaders-Christmas-cards-revealed.html

Yes, it's quite common to see Big Issue sellers wearing such a token of festive cheer....

HYUFD

Marquee Mark Was really referring to the 'Bedroom Tax', welfare cuts and ATOS for the disabled, low wages, zero hours contracts etc. The LDs would be there to ensure the rich paid their fair share of tax too and shared the pain of restoring the finances

rogerh

peter_from_putney said:

If the Tories are to win the next GE or have any prospect of doing do, one feels they need to make a positive and sustained move in the polls over the next few weeks, it simply isn't feasible for them to play catch-up during the campaign itself.

Barring a further spate of defections to UKIP and accompanying by elections , I can see upsides for the Cons as UKIP share declines and the bulk of the decline returns to roost with the Tories.it is difficult to see any upsides for Labour if anything there could be a slight drift back to the Lib Dems as they become more visible during the GE campaign.
So would call now for the Tories to have the largest share and number of votes.Impossible to say how this will translate into seats but most likley result is no overall majority for any party

HYUFD

'Forget everything you know about nice, liberal Sweden - that country no longer exists'
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/forget-everything-you-know-about-nice-liberal-sweden--that-country-no-longer-exists-9903417.html

peter_from_putney

MarqueeMark said:

peter_from_putney said:

If the Tories are to win the next GE or have any prospect of doing do, one feels they need to make a positive and sustained move in the polls over the next few weeks, it simply isn't feasible for them to play catch-up during the campaign itself.

I take a very different view on that Peter. I really believe the campaign is where the election will be lost by Labour. And the Kippers will have ample opportunity to shoot off their feet with high calibre weaponry. If Farage can make a tit of himself over breast-feeding, God alone knows what he can say over the NHS....

You may be right MM but it is unusual , Major's soap box/Kinnock's Sheffield speech apart, for parties to win or lose GEs during the campaign itself.

MikeK

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

Sorry to disappoint you Mike but this article - below - from the Telegraph had over 2,000 responses, 95% favourable to Farage and UKIP.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage/11275846/Nigel-Farages-breastfeeding-comments-will-do-Ukip-little-harm.html

Continue dreaming Mike, your cosy world of Lab/Lib/Con ascendancy is coming to an end

surbiton

Sean_F said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!

Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html

Mr. Farage tends to say publicly what many, perhaps most, Conservatives say privately.

From the article:

"But as the backlash over his comments grew, the outspoken MP attempted to play down the controversy by insisting he did not 'personally endorse' women perhaps sitting in a corner.
Given some people very, very embarrassed by it, it isn't too difficult to breastfeed a baby in a way that's not openly ostentatious

However, in a statement released through Twitter to clarify his position, Mr Farage still maintained it was up to each establishment to decide on their own rules."

Someone should tell the Mail that Mr Farage is not an MP.

MarqueeMark

HYUFD said:

Marquee Mark Was really referring to the 'Bedroom Tax', welfare cuts and ATOS for the disabled, low wages, zero hours contracts etc. The LDs would be there to ensure the rich paid their fair share of tax too and shared the pain of restoring the finances

Failings in the implementation of the Bedroom Tax are down to local councils. How many of the Labour MPs who jump up at PMQs to raise a concern about a constituent are actually complaining about implementation by their local Labour council? Welfare cuts are what the people want, certainly in terms of caps. Low wages are a consequence of Labour opening the borders for a decade to anyone who wanted to better their lot from whatever economic misery they were enduring back home, wherever that was on the planet. The Tories have taken action on the exclusivity provisions in zero hours contracts that are their real evil. And the top 1% now pay 27.5% of all tax, well ahead of Dennis "til the pips squeak" Healey in the 70s.

Just where IS this poor-bashing Tory party?

Sean_F

peter_from_putney said:

MarqueeMark said:

peter_from_putney said:

If the Tories are to win the next GE or have any prospect of doing do, one feels they need to make a positive and sustained move in the polls over the next few weeks, it simply isn't feasible for them to play catch-up during the campaign itself.

I take a very different view on that Peter. I really believe the campaign is where the election will be lost by Labour. And the Kippers will have ample opportunity to shoot off their feet with high calibre weaponry. If Farage can make a tit of himself over breast-feeding, God alone knows what he can say over the NHS....

You may be right MM but it is unusual , Major's soap box/Kinnock's Sheffield speech apart, for parties to win or lose GEs during the campaign itself.

People who are hostile to UKIP assume their hostility is shared generally, and assume that minor "gaffes" will turn the voters against the party. Yet, with less than 6 months to go, UKIP are still on 14-19%.

GIN1138

Someone should tell Nige - "Nobody put's Baby's in the corner"

TheScreamingEagles

GIN1138 said:

Someone should tell Nige - "Nobody put's Baby's in the corner"

I made that joke yesterday!

Luckyguy1983

fitalass said:

"This Farage one is an example of both: it hits out at Ukip for their perceived flakiness — expect to see much more of this in the coming months — while reminding voters that Ukip also has a problem with female voters."

Farage has yet again reinforced another UKIP anti women meme with his ignorant response to breast feeding women in public.

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

UKIP have grown more consistently than any party in recent memory, despite thousands of predictions to the contrary. They don't have a 'problem' with female voters, they have a particular popularity with male voters.

foxinsoxuk

MikeK said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

Sorry to disappoint you Mike but this article - below - from the Telegraph had over 2,000 responses, 95% favourable to Farage and UKIP.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage/11275846/Nigel-Farages-breastfeeding-comments-will-do-Ukip-little-harm.html

Continue dreaming Mike, your cosy world of Lab/Lib/Con ascendancy is coming to an end

Around 15 % support the kippers, around 75% support LibLabCon. The ascendancy looks pretty secure.

JosiasJessop

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!

Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html

I think the Scottish Indy shows us that having the most vociferous people on-line does not equate to winning the argument.

Well, perhaps UKIP have 7000+ activists dedicated to the task of up-arrowing comments like the following:

'Breast feed in comfort and privacy - it's Common Sense really - to many people shouting about 'their rights' etc. Be modest in your dealings.'

Or perhaps it's just that the DM has once again completely failed to convince its readers to be outraged that Claridge's asked this lady to cover up and Farage agrees.

Failed to convince readers engaged enough to read and uptick/downtick comments, you mean. Again, you are wrong in thinking this means anything in the greater scheme of things (and I say that when the 'opinion' is with me as well).

That comment's fairly hilarious anyway. Next they'll be asking women to be 'modest in their dealings' by wearing burkhas! :-)

It's good to see the Neanderthals come out of their caves to tell women their place.

HYUFD

MM I think the fact his wife is a city lawyer will make that less likely

MM I still said Labour would lose the election, just the Tories will not win outright. Voters want welfare cuts, but not foodbanks, immigration controls but also a living wage. The top tax rate was about 90% under Healey it is just the rich have more of the cake so pay more now

TheScreamingEagles

foxinsoxuk said:

MikeK said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

Sorry to disappoint you Mike but this article - below - from the Telegraph had over 2,000 responses, 95% favourable to Farage and UKIP.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage/11275846/Nigel-Farages-breastfeeding-comments-will-do-Ukip-little-harm.html

Continue dreaming Mike, your cosy world of Lab/Lib/Con ascendancy is coming to an end

Around 15 % support the kippers, around 75% support LibLabCon. The ascendancy looks pretty secure.

Like the Nats, they think the smaller number is larger than the erm, larger number.

Sean_F

HYUFD said:

'Forget everything you know about nice, liberal Sweden - that country no longer exists'
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/forget-everything-you-know-about-nice-liberal-sweden--that-country-no-longer-exists-9903417.html

Sweden was never really liberal. More, authoritarian social democrat.

But, what's transformed politics is having a political consensus that 100,000 asylum seekers should be admitted every year into a country with a population of under 10m.

Ninoinoz

Alistair said:

shiney2 said:

Alistair said:

It's not 'obsessing' to point out that Farage is saying something that the vast majority of the population disagree with.

His only expressed personal view on public breastfeeding was "it didn't bother him".

http://www.lbc.co.uk/watch-nigel-farage-live-on-lbc-96464

I doubt "the vast majority of the population disagree with" this.

Why you think this personal view is "frankly unpleasant" is quite odd.

The notion that women should be stopped from breast feeding in public taps into the deep unpleasant vein that women should be ashamed of their bodies, need to cover up, be 'modest' and hide away.

It is a deeply unpleasant, regressive view on all women - not just nursing mothers. And last I checked women make up 50% of the voting population. Farage must be targeting all those men-only constituencies.

Yeah, like those misogynists at No More Page 3.

And talking of modesty, I see more and more women wearing headscarves.

It appears the demographics are against you.

Neil

MikeK said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

Sorry to disappoint you Mike but this article - below - from the Telegraph had over 2,000 responses, 95% favourable to Farage and UKIP.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage/11275846/Nigel-Farages-breastfeeding-comments-will-do-Ukip-little-harm.html

Continue dreaming Mike, your cosy world of Lab/Lib/Con ascendancy is coming to an end

Ouch. Relying on Telegraph comments. I havent felt this sorry for a misguided political punter since the Scottish Socialist who was counting yes and no posters in the run up to the referendum.

Sean_F

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

MikeK said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

Sorry to disappoint you Mike but this article - below - from the Telegraph had over 2,000 responses, 95% favourable to Farage and UKIP.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage/11275846/Nigel-Farages-breastfeeding-comments-will-do-Ukip-little-harm.html

Continue dreaming Mike, your cosy world of Lab/Lib/Con ascendancy is coming to an end

Around 15 % support the kippers, around 75% support LibLabCon. The ascendancy looks pretty secure.

Like the Nats, they think the smaller number is larger than the erm, larger number.

The Nats are sitting pretty right now. They've won extra powers for Scotland and are heading for a landslide.

peter_from_putney

Presumably just the one, YouGov/Sunday Times poll due this evening?

TheScreamingEagles

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

MikeK said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

Sorry to disappoint you Mike but this article - below - from the Telegraph had over 2,000 responses, 95% favourable to Farage and UKIP.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage/11275846/Nigel-Farages-breastfeeding-comments-will-do-Ukip-little-harm.html

Continue dreaming Mike, your cosy world of Lab/Lib/Con ascendancy is coming to an end

Around 15 % support the kippers, around 75% support LibLabCon. The ascendancy looks pretty secure.

Like the Nats, they think the smaller number is larger than the erm, larger number.

The Nats are sitting pretty right now. They've won extra powers for Scotland and are heading for a landslide.

But they've not achieved their raison d'être

Despite telling us before the vote, it was tipping point, they spoke for the majority of Scots, count the posters/tweets/facebook likes etc.

TheScreamingEagles

peter_from_putney said:

Presumably just the one, YouGov/Sunday Times poll due this evening?

Opinium for the Observer should be out tonight as well.

Alistair

Neil said:

Ouch. Relying on Telegraph comments. I havent felt this sorry for a misguided political punter since the Scottish Socialist who was counting yes and no posters in the run up to the referendum.

There was a poll just before the referendum that said that 1 in 2 Yes voters had put up a poster in their window but only 1 in 5 No voters had put up a poster.

On the way to the polling booth from home in Edinburgh I counted posters and came up with 40-60 Yes-No which is how Edinburgh voted.

Sean_F

peter_from_putney said:

Presumably just the one, YouGov/Sunday Times poll due this evening?

Opinium should have one.

MarqueeMark

HYUFD said:

MM I think the fact his wife is a city lawyer will make that less likely

MM I still said Labour would lose the election, just the Tories will not win outright. Voters want welfare cuts, but not foodbanks, immigration controls but also a living wage. The top tax rate was about 90% under Healey it is just the rich have more of the cake so pay more now

The tax-rate may have been 90% under Healey (98% for unearned income), but the take was low because everybody who could fecked off. He stupidly ignored Marquee Mark's Maxim - that Money Flees Taxation.

I love the idea of Nick Clegg asking Miriam for some pocket money ... "just until my 27 pensions kick in..." Maybe he could take his festive hat to the North Pole and become one of Santa's Little Helpers. Starting in January, if Santa gives LibDems what they want for Christmas.....

TheScreamingEagles

Rejoice, rejoice, rejoice.

Jade Dernbach won't be selected for England in the world cup.

He's not made the 30 man provisional squad list announced today

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/dec/06/england-2015-world-cup-jonathan-trott-alastair-cook

GIN1138

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

Someone should tell Nige - "Nobody put's Baby's in the corner"

I made that joke yesterday!

#wevehadthetimeofourlife

Ninoinoz

Sean_F said:

peter_from_putney said:

MarqueeMark said:

peter_from_putney said:

If the Tories are to win the next GE or have any prospect of doing do, one feels they need to make a positive and sustained move in the polls over the next few weeks, it simply isn't feasible for them to play catch-up during the campaign itself.

I take a very different view on that Peter. I really believe the campaign is where the election will be lost by Labour. And the Kippers will have ample opportunity to shoot off their feet with high calibre weaponry. If Farage can make a tit of himself over breast-feeding, God alone knows what he can say over the NHS....

You may be right MM but it is unusual , Major's soap box/Kinnock's Sheffield speech apart, for parties to win or lose GEs during the campaign itself.

People who are hostile to UKIP assume their hostility is shared generally, and assume that minor "gaffes" will turn the voters against the party. Yet, with less than 6 months to go, UKIP are still on 14-19%.

I remember seeing a chart somewhere which showed there were still a lot of social conservatives left that were voting Tory.

Events like that in Claridge's help show up liberal Dave and his chums are being unwilling or unable to protect businesses or other institutions from being inferred with by busybody liberals.

That baker's in N.Ireland being another case in point.

Neil

TheScreamingEagles said:

Rejoice, rejoice, rejoice.

Jade Dernbach won't be selected for England in the world cup.

He's not made the 30 man provisional squad list announced today

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/dec/06/england-2015-world-cup-jonathan-trott-alastair-cook

Hater.

TheScreamingEagles

Opinium

Lab 34 (+1) Con 29 (-1) LD 6 (-1) UKIP 19 (nc) Greens 6 (+2)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/06/observer-opinium-poll-autumn-statement-labour-lead

HYUFD

Sean F Yes, immigration is the key issue

TheScreamingEagles

Neil said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Rejoice, rejoice, rejoice.

Jade Dernbach won't be selected for England in the world cup.

He's not made the 30 man provisional squad list announced today

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/dec/06/england-2015-world-cup-jonathan-trott-alastair-cook

Hater.

Hater = England supporter who wants a decent bowler playing for us, not that pie thrower.

HYUFD

MM Agree on Healey's tax rate

On Clegg Miriam already earns double his salary, I am sure Clegg would look good in an Elf's costume

Ninoinoz

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!

Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html

Mr. Farage tends to say publicly what many, perhaps most, Conservatives say privately.

The polling disagrees with you, last a year poll found that a majority of current Tories and 2010 Tories thought it was generally acceptable for women to breast feed in public/in restaurants.

And polling is a snapshot, not a prediction.

How many of those had actually seen a mother breastfeeding in public?

Ninoinoz

surbiton said:

Sean_F said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!

Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html

Mr. Farage tends to say publicly what many, perhaps most, Conservatives say privately.

From the article:

"But as the backlash over his comments grew, the outspoken MP attempted to play down the controversy by insisting he did not 'personally endorse' women perhaps sitting in a corner.
Given some people very, very embarrassed by it, it isn't too difficult to breastfeed a baby in a way that's not openly ostentatious

However, in a statement released through Twitter to clarify his position, Mr Farage still maintained it was up to each establishment to decide on their own rules."

Someone should tell the Mail that Mr Farage is not an MP.

Daily Mail in missing out letter 'E' debacle.

Casino_Royale

HYUFD said:

'Forget everything you know about nice, liberal Sweden - that country no longer exists'
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/forget-everything-you-know-about-nice-liberal-sweden--that-country-no-longer-exists-9903417.html

Sweden may be an indicator of where the UK could be heading, politically. Reinfeldt and Cameron are close politically. Cameron used to look upon him as a modernist role model.

JosiasJessop

Ninoinoz said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!

Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html

Mr. Farage tends to say publicly what many, perhaps most, Conservatives say privately.

The polling disagrees with you, last a year poll found that a majority of current Tories and 2010 Tories thought it was generally acceptable for women to breast feed in public/in restaurants.

And polling is a snapshot, not a prediction.

How many of those had actually seen a mother breastfeeding in public?

I was very surprised that you said (I think, sorry if I've got it wrong) in the previous thread that you'd never seen a woman breastfeeding in public in the UK. I see it a lot at the moment for obvious reasons, but even before that it was hardly uncommon. Pubs, cafes, even at bus stops and railway stations.

We obviously frequent different places.

Besides, why should seeing a woman breastfeed in public change their minds against it? Is a woman's skin that hideous?

Alistair

Ninoinoz said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

MikeSmithson said:

What a fool Farage has made of himself over breast-feeding. It just reinforces the line that the purples are for disgruntled old men.

I like the way the Tories have gone on the attack.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/tories-attack-nigel-farage-over-breastfeeding-remarks/

So do I, I think it's brilliant! More attacks by the 'Breastapo' please!

Daily Mail keeps hammering it. Comments and red and green arrows tell a very different story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2861994/Put-baby-corner-Farage-tells-mothers-not-openly-ostentatious-breastfeeding-babies.html

Mr. Farage tends to say publicly what many, perhaps most, Conservatives say privately.

The polling disagrees with you, last a year poll found that a majority of current Tories and 2010 Tories thought it was generally acceptable for women to breast feed in public/in restaurants.

And polling is a snapshot, not a prediction.

How many of those had actually seen a mother breastfeeding in public?

This is desperate.

Casino_Royale

TheScreamingEagles said:

Opinium

Lab 34 (+1) Con 29 (-1) LD 6 (-1) UKIP 19 (nc) Greens 6 (+2)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/06/observer-opinium-poll-autumn-statement-labour-lead

Looks like a no change poll to me. Cameron's immigration speech was the last chance he had to rebuild an election winning coalition IMHO.

Now, he'll have to gamble on fear of Ed Miliband getting him (just) over the line.

AndyJS

Melissa Kite:

"I'm with Farage on breastfeeding - we need to take on the frenzied glorification of motherhood":

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/12/im-with-farage-on-breastfeeding-we-need-to-take-on-the-frenzied-glorification-of-motherhood/

Ninoinoz

rcs1000 said:

"Allowing blacks into restaurants doesn't bother me, of course, but I can understand why blacks ostentatiously coming into restaurants and being expected to be treated like normal people would upset some people."

Well, you should be perfectly happy as a Liberal Democrat MP, then.

Morris_Dancer

Good evening, everyone.

Danny565

For the first time in months, I'm wondering if Labour might have a shot afterall. I really thought the Tories would've moved into a decisive lead by now.

AndyJS

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

'Forget everything you know about nice, liberal Sweden - that country no longer exists'
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/forget-everything-you-know-about-nice-liberal-sweden--that-country-no-longer-exists-9903417.html

Sweden may be an indicator of where the UK could be heading, politically. Reinfeldt and Cameron are close politically. Cameron used to look upon him as a modernist role model.

The snap Swedish general election will be held about two weeks before the start of the UK election campaign, so it'll be a fascinating preview of what we might get here, with establishment parties facing serious challenges from parties previously regarded as "fringe".