Why cutting interest rates will be no panacea for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

Stark_Dawning said:

Sir Keir needs to tread carefully. He's starting to look like lord over all he surveys. The Elphicke defection had the air of 'Idolize me mortals for I am your god.' Cooler heads should advise Sir Keir to temper his enthusiasm with some humility. Much more of this and voters will turn to Rishi just to spite him.

Wonder if they've got any shindigs planned in Sheffield in the near future? 😂

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

There is a big chunk of that already, in the existing Conservative Party.

See the very old view that you don’t own land so much as be its caretaker for your lifetime.

...caretaking it for your children and grandchildren, usually.

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

https://theclimate.party/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_Party
(centrist, rather than explicitly Conservative)

Bugger all traction, though. Of course, the Conservatives could make Cameron leader again and he could re-embrace all the 'green crap' like the father of a child just getting started weaning on peas and avocado.

Benpointer said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

There is a big chunk of that already, in the existing Conservative Party.

See the very old view that you don’t own land so much as be its caretaker for your lifetime.

...caretaking it for your children and grandchildren, usually.

The Wedgewood Benn family and other nepotists in the Labour Party know all about that.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

I think David Cameron sort of tried that, and yes there is no reason why to be green you have to be a corporatist lefty. Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out" to big money any more than all on the centre-left have "sold out" to the unions and the more corrupt money-grabbing low productivity end of the public sector.

The LDs should go large on green matters. 'Orange is the New Green!'

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The problem is very small parties can easily be taken over by people with an agenda.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

I think David Cameron sort of tried that, and yes there is no reason why to be green you have to be a corporatist lefty. Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out" to big money any more than all on the centre-left have "sold out" to the unions and the more corrupt money-grabbing low productivity end of the public sector.

Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out"

...but that's not today's Conservative Party is it?

Sam Freedman
@Samfr
·
33m
Another, more basic, problem is that he campaigns with the emotional range of a bored HR director doing a training session for new starters.

https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1789971610163621891

eek said:

FrankBooth said:

Pulpstar said:

FrankBooth said:

Very interesting:

Is interest rates an area where the media has badly misjudged the public mood? You'd think from most news programmes that the public is dying for a rate cut. Perhaps there will be quite a few people who'll be annoyed at having agreed a fixed deal at a higher rate.

Geography? A regional breakdown would be good.

This is an odd argument, as mortgages come up all the time for renewal. By this logic the bank should always increase rates so as to not annoy people who have remortgaged recently.

On another financial matter, those of us with children born in April 2022 get the funding at the same time as anyone with a 9 mth+ child but missed out on the 2 yr old 15 hr implementation recently brought in.

Yeah but if you are fixed for another 2,3,4 years it hardly warrants much of a response.

Another thing I found odd was rate expectations for 2027(?) being 2%. Why are people expecting rates to fall that much? Demographic factors? Japanisation?

Hopemism that the world post 2008 is the new reality and that it wasn't a one off event due to unique circumstances...

Why would people want the world post 2008 to be a new reality? It's been bloody awful. Surely low interest rates = low growth. Why else would you get such a small return?

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

Given the strong rural connection with the Cons I would echo @Malmesbury's point that this is precisely what the party does. But then if, say, a Cons farmer decides to do something on his land, or a Cons council decides to do something in their area, quite often the Islingtonians get all up in arms about it.

TOPPING said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

Given the strong rural connection with the Cons I would echo @Malmesbury's point that this is precisely what the party does. But then if, say, a Cons farmer decides to do something on his land, or a Cons council decides to do something in their area, quite often the Islingtonians get all up in arms about it.

Surely it depends on what said farmer decides to do his land?

If you've got a specific example of a farmer trying to improve the environment and being castigated by Islingtonians, do share.

Benpointer said:

algarkirk said:

numbertwelve said:

This is real weak sauce from Sunak. Vote for me because I can be trusted more with change? It’s just such a weird message for a party in power for 14 years. Casting around for gimmicks like this isn’t going to save him.

After 14 years in power you have to be able to point to solid achievements and changes that make sense to the individual voter - brilliant NHS, solved housing problems especially in London, social housing working well, delivered on migration pledges, prisons nearly empty because of rehabilitation and education, police being effective, schools no problem because spoilt for choice, public finances sure and steady, Brexit deal now booming, illegal drugs a minimal problem, defences and armed forces sorted, northern transport systems as good as London - and so on.

In don't think he has really touched on any of those matters. Why?

The only change the Tories can point to is Brexit. I can't for the life of me think why they aren't majoring on that.

Because they've made a shit job of it.

Compelling argument from Sunak that Starmer and Labour are in Putin's pocket.

https://goodlawproject.org/revealed-the-tories-are-still-receiving-funds-from-russia-linked-donors/

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/26/italy-was-monitoring-lebedev-villa-at-time-of-boris-johnson-visit-documentary-claims

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The problem is very small parties can easily be taken over by people with an agenda.

You’re probably right. The problem for the greens is that they’ve been taken over a deeply unsavoury rabble of wankers

Yep, but sadly the same could be said of the party that I used to be a member of when Boris Johnson took over (maybe not quite as unsavoury) ; similarly when Corbyn took over Labour, and when Trump took over the GOP. It is not something limited to small parties. Extremism should be called out, though a lack of engagement with politics by the larger populace and proper scrutiny of the appropriateness of politicians by voters means that incompetents and lunatics see their opportunity and take it.

Benpointer said:

rottenborough said:

Sam Freedman
@Samfr
·
33m
Another, more basic, problem is that he campaigns with the emotional range of a bored HR director doing a training session for new starters.

https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1789971610163621891

This campaign is going to be such a scream. 🍿🍿

I'm still cherishing a hope that the Tory party comes to its senses and ditches him at the 11th hour. At the moment it really seems like he could hump Tory MPs wives at the dispatch box and all we'd get is some disgruntled Whatsapp leaks from backbenchers saying 'He better not go any bloody further, if things get any worse, I'm really going to see if I've got a pen and look out some stamps'.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

I think David Cameron sort of tried that, and yes there is no reason why to be green you have to be a corporatist lefty. Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out" to big money any more than all on the centre-left have "sold out" to the unions and the more corrupt money-grabbing low productivity end of the public sector.

Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out"

...but that's not today's Conservative Party is it?

Contrary to those who have a simplistic and tribal view of politics, there are still (despite Bozo's best efforts) plenty of decent people in the Conservative Party. Hopefully they will be able to restore the party to pre-Johnson respectability at some point in the future. An unchallenged Labour Party that has almost zero understanding of business and wealth creation is a very bad thing for the country.

Let's see how many decent people there are in the Conservative Party when the next leader is chosen, shall we? (A: not enough, I suspect.)

Benpointer said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

bondegezou said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

@bondegezou

Thanks for providing a selection of reading materials in the previous thread. None of the studies provided add a shred of weight to @SandyRentool's claim that 'climate change' caused the wildfires seen in Canada recently. None of them even alleges that climate change has ever caused a wildfire anywhere, though they do suggest that climate change (for which read a hotter, dryer climate) has increased the risk of more severe wildfires. Appropriately, that's bears shitting in the woods stuff.

The resource that goes into this in the most depth deals with Australia - that obviously doesn't help much with Canada, and the three papers that it references that refer to North America are all about the USA.

So, we’re agreed that climate change makes wildfires worse (and worse wildfires, in a vicious circle, dumps more CO2 into the atmosphere, increasing climate change). I think that’s the core point SandyRentool was making.

I agree that hotter, dryer conditions make wild fires likelier to spread. Blaming this on climate change is a double-edged sword - the Northern hemisphere has just had a hugely cold spring that people have also been blaming climate change for. Does that mean we should thank climate change for protecting our forests?

The real issue with these fires is afaics the people causing them. The penalties for doing so, even accidentally through lack of attention, should be huge, and the perpetrators' families should be liable for the financial cost. Secondly, there should be earlier detection of fires using all the technology at the at risk countries' disposal. News agencies reporting forest fires using lazy angles about climate change (leading to ridiculous comments like Sandy's) are missing the point.

Where did you get that from?

North America had it's 9th warmest March and it's 4th warmest Jan-Mar on record.
Europe had it's 2nd warmest March and it's 2nd warmest Jan-Mar on record.

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/monitoring/monthly-report/global/202403

While we're on the subject of climate sceptic talking points, a reminder that the isotopic signature of atmospheric CO2 shows that the rise since the mid 20th century including in recent years is down to fossil fuel burning.

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2019GB006170#:~:text=Fossil fuels are completely devoid of 14 C,fuels a Δ 14 C signature of −1,000‰.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The problem is very small parties can easily be taken over by people with an agenda.

You’re probably right. The problem for the greens is that they’ve been taken over a deeply unsavoury rabble of wankers

Yep, but sadly the same could be said of the party that I used to be a member of when Boris Johnson took over (maybe not quite as unsavoury) ; similarly when Corbyn took over Labour, and when Trump took over the GOP. It is not something limited to small parties. Extremism should be called out, though a lack of engagement with politics by the larger populace and proper scrutiny of the appropriateness of politicians by voters means that incompetents and lunatics see their opportunity and take it.

The nutters were there all along of course. Ill-chosen leaders like Corbyn, Trump and Boris encourage them to emerge. The decline in political standards isn't due to them as individuals but rather the longer term decline in those who choose a political career.

Luckyguy1983 said:

Benpointer said:

algarkirk said:

numbertwelve said:

This is real weak sauce from Sunak. Vote for me because I can be trusted more with change? It’s just such a weird message for a party in power for 14 years. Casting around for gimmicks like this isn’t going to save him.

After 14 years in power you have to be able to point to solid achievements and changes that make sense to the individual voter - brilliant NHS, solved housing problems especially in London, social housing working well, delivered on migration pledges, prisons nearly empty because of rehabilitation and education, police being effective, schools no problem because spoilt for choice, public finances sure and steady, Brexit deal now booming, illegal drugs a minimal problem, defences and armed forces sorted, northern transport systems as good as London - and so on.

In don't think he has really touched on any of those matters. Why?

The only change the Tories can point to is Brexit. I can't for the life of me think why they aren't majoring on that.

Because they've made a shit job of it.

Because it was a totally ludicrous crock of shit in the first place. The only people it has benefitted, and ever was going to benefit are a few hedge fund managers. Oh, and Boris Johnson who pretended he believed in it.

Benpointer said:

TOPPING said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

Given the strong rural connection with the Cons I would echo @Malmesbury's point that this is precisely what the party does. But then if, say, a Cons farmer decides to do something on his land, or a Cons council decides to do something in their area, quite often the Islingtonians get all up in arms about it.

Surely it depends on what said farmer decides to do his land?

If you've got a specific example of a farmer trying to improve the environment and being castigated by Islingtonians, do share.

Have hounds hunt over it.

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

I think David Cameron sort of tried that, and yes there is no reason why to be green you have to be a corporatist lefty. Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out" to big money any more than all on the centre-left have "sold out" to the unions and the more corrupt money-grabbing low productivity end of the public sector.

Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out"

...but that's not today's Conservative Party is it?

Contrary to those who have a simplistic and tribal view of politics, there are still (despite Bozo's best efforts) plenty of decent people in the Conservative Party. Hopefully they will be able to restore the party to pre-Johnson respectability at some point in the future. An unchallenged Labour Party that has almost zero understanding of business and wealth creation is a very bad thing for the country.

Let's see how many decent people there are in the Conservative Party when the next leader is chosen, shall we? (A: not enough, I suspect.)

Depends on how many of them survive the decimation, assuming the huge landslide that @kinabalu believes is "baked in".

It is a sad aspect of our politics that so many tribalists want the other party to be annihilated. It is not good for anyone.

Sunak: Don't let Labour talk Britain down.

Tories: London is a cesspit. Vote Tory for Mayor!

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The problem is very small parties can easily be taken over by people with an agenda.

You’re probably right. The problem for the greens is that they’ve been taken over a deeply unsavoury rabble of wankers

Yep, but sadly the same could be said of the party that I used to be a member of when Boris Johnson took over (maybe not quite as unsavoury) ; similarly when Corbyn took over Labour, and when Trump took over the GOP. It is not something limited to small parties. Extremism should be called out, though a lack of engagement with politics by the larger populace and proper scrutiny of the appropriateness of politicians by voters means that incompetents and lunatics see their opportunity and take it.

Furthermore, extremist views are encouraged by the media, in order to sell newspapers and increase social media activity.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

I think David Cameron sort of tried that, and yes there is no reason why to be green you have to be a corporatist lefty. Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out" to big money any more than all on the centre-left have "sold out" to the unions and the more corrupt money-grabbing low productivity end of the public sector.

Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out"

...but that's not today's Conservative Party is it?

Contrary to those who have a simplistic and tribal view of politics, there are still (despite Bozo's best efforts) plenty of decent people in the Conservative Party. Hopefully they will be able to restore the party to pre-Johnson respectability at some point in the future. An unchallenged Labour Party that has almost zero understanding of business and wealth creation is a very bad thing for the country.

Let's see how many decent people there are in the Conservative Party when the next leader is chosen, shall we? (A: not enough, I suspect.)

Depends on how many of them survive the decimation, assuming the huge landslide that @kinabalu believes is "baked in".

It is a sad aspect of our politics that so many tribalists want the other party to be annihilated. It is not good for anyone.

Hang on, Nigel. What's baked in (imo) is a majority of high 2 digits - with 3 digits (aka 'huge landslide') more likely than anything small like 25 or 30.

TimS said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

I think David Cameron sort of tried that, and yes there is no reason why to be green you have to be a corporatist lefty. Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out" to big money any more than all on the centre-left have "sold out" to the unions and the more corrupt money-grabbing low productivity end of the public sector.

Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out"

...but that's not today's Conservative Party is it?

Contrary to those who have a simplistic and tribal view of politics, there are still (despite Bozo's best efforts) plenty of decent people in the Conservative Party. Hopefully they will be able to restore the party to pre-Johnson respectability at some point in the future. An unchallenged Labour Party that has almost zero understanding of business and wealth creation is a very bad thing for the country.

Let's see how many decent people there are in the Conservative Party when the next leader is chosen, shall we? (A: not enough, I suspect.)

Depends on how many of them survive the decimation, assuming the huge landslide that @kinabalu believes is "baked in".

It is a sad aspect of our politics that so many tribalists want the other party to be annihilated. It is not good for anyone.

A design feature of FPTP, sadly.

I am struggling to adjust to being in an STV constituency that can elect Michael Collins and Holly Cairns. I want to vote against Michael Collins, but it isn't really possible with STV in the way that it is with FPTP.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

I think David Cameron sort of tried that, and yes there is no reason why to be green you have to be a corporatist lefty. Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out" to big money any more than all on the centre-left have "sold out" to the unions and the more corrupt money-grabbing low productivity end of the public sector.

Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out"

...but that's not today's Conservative Party is it?

Contrary to those who have a simplistic and tribal view of politics, there are still (despite Bozo's best efforts) plenty of decent people in the Conservative Party. Hopefully they will be able to restore the party to pre-Johnson respectability at some point in the future. An unchallenged Labour Party that has almost zero understanding of business and wealth creation is a very bad thing for the country.

Let's see how many decent people there are in the Conservative Party when the next leader is chosen, shall we? (A: not enough, I suspect.)

Depends on how many of them survive the decimation, assuming the huge landslide that @kinabalu believes is "baked in".

It is a sad aspect of our politics that so many tribalists want the other party to be annihilated. It is not good for anyone.

I'm talking about the members, not the MPs. Given any choice of two candidates, the Tory membership will choose the more right-wing. Guaranteed.

Four Tory MPs who made £5.4million selling taxpayer-funded second homes won't say if they paid tax.

The Tories were accused of ­hypocrisy after pushing for police to probe deputy Labour leader Ms Angela Rayner over a £48,000 profit she made selling a former council house

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/four-tory-mps-who-made-32793408

Luckyguy1983 said:

bondegezou said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

@bondegezou

Thanks for providing a selection of reading materials in the previous thread. None of the studies provided add a shred of weight to @SandyRentool's claim that 'climate change' caused the wildfires seen in Canada recently. None of them even alleges that climate change has ever caused a wildfire anywhere, though they do suggest that climate change (for which read a hotter, dryer climate) has increased the risk of more severe wildfires. Appropriately, that's bears shitting in the woods stuff.

The resource that goes into this in the most depth deals with Australia - that obviously doesn't help much with Canada, and the three papers that it references that refer to North America are all about the USA.

So, we’re agreed that climate change makes wildfires worse (and worse wildfires, in a vicious circle, dumps more CO2 into the atmosphere, increasing climate change). I think that’s the core point SandyRentool was making.

I agree that hotter, dryer conditions make wild fires likelier to spread. Blaming this on climate change is a double-edged sword - the Northern hemisphere has just had a hugely cold spring that people have also been blaming climate change for. Does that mean we should thank climate change for protecting our forests?

The real issue with these fires is afaics the people causing them. The penalties for doing so, even accidentally through lack of attention, should be huge, and the perpetrators' families should be liable for the financial cost. Secondly, there should be earlier detection of fires using all the technology at the at risk countries' disposal. News agencies reporting forest fires using lazy angles about climate change (leading to ridiculous comments like Sandy's) are missing the point.

Wildfires are usually a product of land management.

The fact that someone started them is beside the point as all land that can burn will do so eventually. Some vegetation has evolved to thrive in places that burn frequently and actively encourages it - eg Eucalyptus forest, Maquis.

What has changed is that people have built in areas that burn (similar mentality to building in flood plains) and then complain about it when things get torched.

We also actively prevent fires which only makes them bigger when they get out of control.

Most vegetation (peat bogs being an exception) does not fix carbon so burning it makes little difference to the climate. It all gets recycled.

If it didn't we'd soon be in a snowball earth.


Has climate change made things worse? Possibly, although you would expect more rain in a hotter climate, not less.

TimS said:

Fairliered said:

numbertwelve said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rottenborough said:

FrankBooth said:

Very interesting:

Is interest rates an area where the media has badly misjudged the public mood? You'd think from most news programmes that the public is dying for a rate cut. Perhaps there will be quite a few people who'll be annoyed at having agreed a fixed deal at a higher rate.

Geography? A regional breakdown would be good.

And there are a lot of savers out there. Even with these interest rates, inflation has outstripped savings rates.

Is anyone that bothered about the paltry interest the banks pay on savings? It's a huge difference in importance to someone's mortgage payments going up.

Many people look to traditional savings interest as a way to boost retirement income.

Now, yes, it’s true, it’s generally an inefficient way of managing your wealth and people would have typically been better off investing in property and equities and paying more into their pensions in the first place, as a rule. But that doesn’t alter the fact that lots do it, for a myriad of reasons, usually because of feeling more comfortable/safe with the concept, no upfront costs, lack of time/inclination to read up on alternatives, ease of access etc.

For most people, fear of losing capital greatly outweighs the prospect of making gains. What would happen if property prices were to fall as much as they need to in order to make decent homes affordable for most, will be scary for the “my house is my pension” advocates.

Which is why a continuation of the trend of the last few years, with house prices staying static in real terms, is not the worst outcome. Perhaps even better for supply-demand to be such that nominal prices rise but real terms values gently decline.

Screws a whole generation, though, who remain unable to get on the housing ladder for much longer than if there were to have been a more abrupt decline.

A generation who, as they age, are becoming ever-more likely to vote.

If the current issues around housing get pinned on one of the major parties more than the others, it could potentially affect voting patterns for decades. From a pure political calculation point of view, taking the immediate hit from a faster correction might have been the wiser thing to do.

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

I think David Cameron sort of tried that, and yes there is no reason why to be green you have to be a corporatist lefty. Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out" to big money any more than all on the centre-left have "sold out" to the unions and the more corrupt money-grabbing low productivity end of the public sector.

Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out"

...but that's not today's Conservative Party is it?

Contrary to those who have a simplistic and tribal view of politics, there are still (despite Bozo's best efforts) plenty of decent people in the Conservative Party. Hopefully they will be able to restore the party to pre-Johnson respectability at some point in the future. An unchallenged Labour Party that has almost zero understanding of business and wealth creation is a very bad thing for the country.

Let's see how many decent people there are in the Conservative Party when the next leader is chosen, shall we? (A: not enough, I suspect.)

Depends on how many of them survive the decimation, assuming the huge landslide that @kinabalu believes is "baked in".

It is a sad aspect of our politics that so many tribalists want the other party to be annihilated. It is not good for anyone.

I'm talking about the members, not the MPs. Given any choice of two candidates, the Tory membership will choose the more right-wing. Guaranteed.

Your studentship of the Conservative Party is blinkered by your tribalism. David Cameron v David Davis was not that long ago.

Luckyguy1983 said:

bondegezou said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

@bondegezou

Thanks for providing a selection of reading materials in the previous thread. None of the studies provided add a shred of weight to @SandyRentool's claim that 'climate change' caused the wildfires seen in Canada recently. None of them even alleges that climate change has ever caused a wildfire anywhere, though they do suggest that climate change (for which read a hotter, dryer climate) has increased the risk of more severe wildfires. Appropriately, that's bears shitting in the woods stuff.

The resource that goes into this in the most depth deals with Australia - that obviously doesn't help much with Canada, and the three papers that it references that refer to North America are all about the USA.

So, we’re agreed that climate change makes wildfires worse (and worse wildfires, in a vicious circle, dumps more CO2 into the atmosphere, increasing climate change). I think that’s the core point SandyRentool was making.

I agree that hotter, dryer conditions make wild fires likelier to spread. Blaming this on climate change is a double-edged sword - the Northern hemisphere has just had a hugely cold spring that people have also been blaming climate change for. Does that mean we should thank climate change for protecting our forests?

The real issue with these fires is afaics the people causing them. The penalties for doing so, even accidentally through lack of attention, should be huge, and the perpetrators' families should be liable for the financial cost. Secondly, there should be earlier detection of fires using all the technology at the at risk countries' disposal. News agencies reporting forest fires using lazy angles about climate change (leading to ridiculous comments like Sandy's) are missing the point.

I think if something is flammable it's going to burn at some stage whether it's human error or arson or lightning or spontaneous combustion. Lots of plants evolved to take advantage of forest fires before humans were a thing. The point is not why fires happen, it's that they do happen and planting more trees is therefore not always a good thing.

LostPassword said:

Anabobazina said:

Given we have now seen Sunak's speech, I wonder how many PBers have drawn the inevitable conclusion?

The stage is being cleared.

The great new hope is waiting in the wings.

It's time.

TRUSS

Let's suppose the unlikely happens and Sunak somehow does well enough at the election to remain as PM. Initially he'll have a lot of credit with his MPs due to saving them from what looks like an impossible situation. But still.

How long until they change PM again?

8 - 12 years, I'd guess. 2 or 3 terms of Labour to come first.

Flatlander said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

bondegezou said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

@bondegezou

Thanks for providing a selection of reading materials in the previous thread. None of the studies provided add a shred of weight to @SandyRentool's claim that 'climate change' caused the wildfires seen in Canada recently. None of them even alleges that climate change has ever caused a wildfire anywhere, though they do suggest that climate change (for which read a hotter, dryer climate) has increased the risk of more severe wildfires. Appropriately, that's bears shitting in the woods stuff.

The resource that goes into this in the most depth deals with Australia - that obviously doesn't help much with Canada, and the three papers that it references that refer to North America are all about the USA.

So, we’re agreed that climate change makes wildfires worse (and worse wildfires, in a vicious circle, dumps more CO2 into the atmosphere, increasing climate change). I think that’s the core point SandyRentool was making.

I agree that hotter, dryer conditions make wild fires likelier to spread. Blaming this on climate change is a double-edged sword - the Northern hemisphere has just had a hugely cold spring that people have also been blaming climate change for. Does that mean we should thank climate change for protecting our forests?

The real issue with these fires is afaics the people causing them. The penalties for doing so, even accidentally through lack of attention, should be huge, and the perpetrators' families should be liable for the financial cost. Secondly, there should be earlier detection of fires using all the technology at the at risk countries' disposal. News agencies reporting forest fires using lazy angles about climate change (leading to ridiculous comments like Sandy's) are missing the point.

Wildfires are usually a product of land management.

The fact that someone started them is beside the point as all land that can burn will do so eventually. Some vegetation has evolved to thrive in places that burn frequently and actively encourages it - eg Eucalyptus forest, Maquis.

What has changed is that people have built in areas that burn (similar mentality to building in flood plains) and then complain about it when things get torched.

We also actively prevent fires which only makes them bigger when they get out of control.

Most vegetation (peat bogs being an exception) does not fix carbon so burning it makes little difference to the climate. It all gets recycled.

If it didn't we'd soon be in a snowball earth.


Has climate change made things worse? Possibly, although you would expect more rain in a hotter climate, not less.

You do have more rain in a hotter climate, but it's not evenly distributed in time and space. In general the expectation seems to be that there will be longer dry periods, which will be drier because it is hotter, and when there is rain, it will be more intense.

So the average is higher, you have more droughts, increased wildfire risk, more floods.

Modern flood management accepts that you have to let some land flood somewhere, to save the bits of land you want to keep dry. People are finding the same argument in relation to wildfires a bit harder, not least because fires spread and grow, so allowing a fire to burn in one place doesn't (normally) prevent a fire elsewhere in the way that flooding can be managed.

Nigel_Foremain said:

kinabalu said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

kinabalu said:

wooliedyed said:

numbertwelve said:

This is real weak sauce from Sunak. Vote for me because I can be trusted more with change? It’s just such a weird message for a party in power for 14 years. Casting around for gimmicks like this isn’t going to save him.

All that is left for him is fear of Labour votes, so everything will be framed around that. Don't risk it for a biscuit campaign, and even that is about trying to restrict them and have a chance at coming back in 5 years/one heave

And it won't work. Starmer has closed that off along with every other tory attack line. It's been a masterclass really.

A masterclass in saying "well other than me (did you know I used to be DPP?), the Labour front bench is full of lightweights and people who would struggle to get above lower middle management in the real world, but the Tories are all baby-eaters and it is time for a change. Basically we, Labour, are just a bit less crap than the tired out Tories. Vote for us, and if you can't, please don't vote at all. "

That kind of masterclass

In amongst all of that are 4 key words: Time for a Change. Millions of apolitical floating voters feel this way and what SKS has done is remove every conceivable obstacle that might stand between each of them and the act of putting their cross next to Labour at the GE. This is why the big majority is looking baked-in.

Neil Kinnock thought that was the message that would make him PM. Now, while Starmer is very boring, and a lot more appealing than the Windbag, the reality is that the Labour Party is really not ready for government in any way like they were in 1997. I guess they hope no-one will notice, which might just be true.

The problem is really training and promotion of politicians.

In times past, being an MP was a second job, taken on in the second half of a career - at least very often.

We now have a situation where people are supposed to be running departments who’ve never run anything bigger than a constituency office.

That’s about as sensible as selling promotions in the army to saloon loungers from Dublin. Sure, once every couple of centuries you get the Duke of Wellington, but…

The other day, we were discussing VAT on school fees. How many here believe that those proposing the policy have -

1) heard of demand curves
2) think they might apply to the policy
3) got someone to construct a report, using estimations of the probable elasticity of demand, to see what the range of probable effects of the policy would be.

This is not about disparaging the policy or those promoting it - it’s about skills.

Many times, I have seen policies from left, right and centre that seem to assume that the policy has only first order effects. That is, the policy will move X to Y and all the other variables will remain the same.

Anabobazina said:

Given we have now seen Sunak's speech, I wonder how many PBers have drawn the inevitable conclusion?

The stage is being cleared.

The great new hope is waiting in the wings.

It's time.

TRUSS

The Times refuses to recognise the speech as a news event at all. It leads with "Obese people twice as likely to be off work."

Luckyguy1983 said:

bondegezou said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

@bondegezou

Thanks for providing a selection of reading materials in the previous thread. None of the studies provided add a shred of weight to @SandyRentool's claim that 'climate change' caused the wildfires seen in Canada recently. None of them even alleges that climate change has ever caused a wildfire anywhere, though they do suggest that climate change (for which read a hotter, dryer climate) has increased the risk of more severe wildfires. Appropriately, that's bears shitting in the woods stuff.

The resource that goes into this in the most depth deals with Australia - that obviously doesn't help much with Canada, and the three papers that it references that refer to North America are all about the USA.

So, we’re agreed that climate change makes wildfires worse (and worse wildfires, in a vicious circle, dumps more CO2 into the atmosphere, increasing climate change). I think that’s the core point SandyRentool was making.

I agree that hotter, dryer conditions make wild fires likelier to spread. Blaming this on climate change is a double-edged sword - the Northern hemisphere has just had a hugely cold spring that people have also been blaming climate change for. Does that mean we should thank climate change for protecting our forests?

The real issue with these fires is afaics the people causing them. The penalties for doing so, even accidentally through lack of attention, should be huge, and the perpetrators' families should be liable for the financial cost. Secondly, there should be earlier detection of fires using all the technology at the at risk countries' disposal. News agencies reporting forest fires using lazy angles about climate change (leading to ridiculous comments like Sandy's) are missing the point.

One recent issue in Australia (where it should be noted that fire is part of the natural ecology, and can be started by non-human intervention such as lightening etc) is that changes to management of the bush has made fires much worse. Clearing flammable materials can prevent or reduce the risk to property of buch fires, but recent times has been seen a bad thing to do ecologically. And then the fires that happen are worse and threaten property.

This kind of change is not climate change related, but sadly some will present it as evidence.

Malmesbury said:

numbertwelve said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rottenborough said:

FrankBooth said:

Very interesting:

Is interest rates an area where the media has badly misjudged the public mood? You'd think from most news programmes that the public is dying for a rate cut. Perhaps there will be quite a few people who'll be annoyed at having agreed a fixed deal at a higher rate.

Geography? A regional breakdown would be good.

And there are a lot of savers out there. Even with these interest rates, inflation has outstripped savings rates.

Is anyone that bothered about the paltry interest the banks pay on savings? It's a huge difference in importance to someone's mortgage payments going up.

Many people look to traditional savings interest as a way to boost retirement income.

Now, yes, it’s true, it’s generally an inefficient way of managing your wealth and people would have typically been better off investing in property and equities and paying more into their pensions in the first place, as a rule. But that doesn’t alter the fact that lots do it, for a myriad of reasons, usually because of feeling more comfortable/safe with the concept, no upfront costs, lack of time/inclination to read up on alternatives, ease of access etc.

One thing that was quite strange was the reaction of some on the left to the fact that people had large amounts of money on deposit with banks and building societies, when 2008 happened.

It took a while to explain that just because Mrs Miggins had £43k in savings, didn’t mean she was a “speculator” - simply that she’d saved x percent of salary each year, for 40 years.

Or just as likely had inherited some money. I inherited 9 grand when my maternal grandmother died in the 1990's. Frittered it away over the next 15 years. As a couple we will get a half share of my mother in law's estate when the house is sold - a much bigger wodge. Lots of people get similar over their lives (not all, obviously).

Flatlander said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

bondegezou said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

@bondegezou

Thanks for providing a selection of reading materials in the previous thread. None of the studies provided add a shred of weight to @SandyRentool's claim that 'climate change' caused the wildfires seen in Canada recently. None of them even alleges that climate change has ever caused a wildfire anywhere, though they do suggest that climate change (for which read a hotter, dryer climate) has increased the risk of more severe wildfires. Appropriately, that's bears shitting in the woods stuff.

The resource that goes into this in the most depth deals with Australia - that obviously doesn't help much with Canada, and the three papers that it references that refer to North America are all about the USA.

So, we’re agreed that climate change makes wildfires worse (and worse wildfires, in a vicious circle, dumps more CO2 into the atmosphere, increasing climate change). I think that’s the core point SandyRentool was making.

I agree that hotter, dryer conditions make wild fires likelier to spread. Blaming this on climate change is a double-edged sword - the Northern hemisphere has just had a hugely cold spring that people have also been blaming climate change for. Does that mean we should thank climate change for protecting our forests?

The real issue with these fires is afaics the people causing them. The penalties for doing so, even accidentally through lack of attention, should be huge, and the perpetrators' families should be liable for the financial cost. Secondly, there should be earlier detection of fires using all the technology at the at risk countries' disposal. News agencies reporting forest fires using lazy angles about climate change (leading to ridiculous comments like Sandy's) are missing the point.

Wildfires are usually a product of land management.

The fact that someone started them is beside the point as all land that can burn will do so eventually. Some vegetation has evolved to thrive in places that burn frequently and actively encourages it - eg Eucalyptus forest, Maquis.

What has changed is that people have built in areas that burn (similar mentality to building in flood plains) and then complain about it when things get torched.

We also actively prevent fires which only makes them bigger when they get out of control.

Most vegetation (peat bogs being an exception) does not fix carbon so burning it makes little difference to the climate. It all gets recycled.

If it didn't we'd soon be in a snowball earth.

Has climate change made things worse? Possibly, although you would expect more rain in a hotter climate, not less.

What's very different in the last decade or so
is that fires which are unprecedented in scale and location are breaking out, as for example:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Russia_wildfires

And the vegetation created carbon stores beneath them, built up over millennia, are threatened on a timescale orders of magnitude less than took to create them.

That's an imbalance which will likely make a huge difference to climate.

(Along with second order effects like loss of albedo in the Arctic.)

Stuartinromford said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Benpointer said:

algarkirk said:

numbertwelve said:

This is real weak sauce from Sunak. Vote for me because I can be trusted more with change? It’s just such a weird message for a party in power for 14 years. Casting around for gimmicks like this isn’t going to save him.

After 14 years in power you have to be able to point to solid achievements and changes that make sense to the individual voter - brilliant NHS, solved housing problems especially in London, social housing working well, delivered on migration pledges, prisons nearly empty because of rehabilitation and education, police being effective, schools no problem because spoilt for choice, public finances sure and steady, Brexit deal now booming, illegal drugs a minimal problem, defences and armed forces sorted, northern transport systems as good as London - and so on.

In don't think he has really touched on any of those matters. Why?

The only change the Tories can point to is Brexit. I can't for the life of me think why they aren't majoring on that.

Because they've made a shit job of it.

Because it was a totally ludicrous crock of shit in the first place. The only people it has benefitted, and ever was going to benefit are a few hedge fund managers. Oh, and Boris Johnson who pretended he believed in it.

Did even Boris benefit really? He got to be PM, sure, and that's not to be sniffed at. But the price of that will be a lifetime of all but a handful of crazies hating him. That might be better than a lifetime of people coming up to him and saying 'you know, you should have been Prime Minister' and him ruefully agreeing, but it's not obvious that that's the case.

There must the a story in the classical canon of the dangers of being given exactly what you wanted.

It must be rather sad to be Boris. The only thing he was good at was penning putting-the-world-to-rights articles for the right-wing media and then have his admirers post 'Boris for PM!' messages BTL. Now all that will just be greeted with hollow guffawing. Rotten really.

FF43 said:

Four Tory MPs who made £5.4million selling taxpayer-funded second homes won't say if they paid tax.

The Tories were accused of ­hypocrisy after pushing for police to probe deputy Labour leader Ms Angela Rayner over a £48,000 profit she made selling a former council house

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/four-tory-mps-who-made-32793408

Is Dan Hodges on the case yet? There's no reason the Mail should not go after a few bad opportunistic apples. It will make them appear even-handed, even noble, and can't do the Tories much damage at this stage.

Was just thinking about by elections. I guess we are coming to the end of them being a thing for this parliament? Voluntary stand downs after the Whitsun recess probably won't be filled (GE 'soon', waste of money etc) and for recalls they have to open by 6 months before a GE is due (Jan 25th so July 25th) so Speaker would need to notify the RO by about 15th July. Meaning any sanction and vote by Parliament needs to happen in the next 6 weeks (with 2 of them off for Whitsun)?
Thus Blackpool South 'probably' the last such test this time round?

Nigel_Foremain said:

Stuartinromford said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Benpointer said:

algarkirk said:

numbertwelve said:

This is real weak sauce from Sunak. Vote for me because I can be trusted more with change? It’s just such a weird message for a party in power for 14 years. Casting around for gimmicks like this isn’t going to save him.

After 14 years in power you have to be able to point to solid achievements and changes that make sense to the individual voter - brilliant NHS, solved housing problems especially in London, social housing working well, delivered on migration pledges, prisons nearly empty because of rehabilitation and education, police being effective, schools no problem because spoilt for choice, public finances sure and steady, Brexit deal now booming, illegal drugs a minimal problem, defences and armed forces sorted, northern transport systems as good as London - and so on.

In don't think he has really touched on any of those matters. Why?

The only change the Tories can point to is Brexit. I can't for the life of me think why they aren't majoring on that.

Because they've made a shit job of it.

Because it was a totally ludicrous crock of shit in the first place. The only people it has benefitted, and ever was going to benefit are a few hedge fund managers. Oh, and Boris Johnson who pretended he believed in it.

Did even Boris benefit really? He got to be PM, sure, and that's not to be sniffed at. But the price of that will be a lifetime of all but a handful of crazies hating him. That might be better than a lifetime of people coming up to him and saying 'you know, you should have been Prime Minister' and him ruefully agreeing, but it's not obvious that that's the case.

There must the a story in the classical canon of the dangers of being given exactly what you wanted.

In literature we have Faust, The Picture of Dorian Gray. Then we have Odysseus and the Sirens, and of course King Midas.

How am I doing?

Sorcerer's apprentice

...

Nigel_Foremain said:

Mexicanpete said:

...

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

I think David Cameron sort of tried that, and yes there is no reason why to be green you have to be a corporatist lefty. Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out" to big money any more than all on the centre-left have "sold out" to the unions and the more corrupt money-grabbing low productivity end of the public sector.

Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out"

...but that's not today's Conservative Party is it?

Contrary to those who have a simplistic and tribal view of politics, there are still (despite Bozo's best efforts) plenty of decent people in the Conservative Party. Hopefully they will be able to restore the party to pre-Johnson respectability at some point in the future. An unchallenged Labour Party that has almost zero understanding of business and wealth creation is a very bad thing for the country.

Let's see how many decent people there are in the Conservative Party when the next leader is chosen, shall we? (A: not enough, I suspect.)

Depends on how many of them survive the decimation, assuming the huge landslide that @kinabalu believes is "baked in".

It is a sad aspect of our politics that so many tribalists want the other party to be annihilated. It is not good for anyone.

I'm talking about the members, not the MPs. Given any choice of two candidates, the Tory membership will choose the more right-wing. Guaranteed.

Your studentship of the Conservative Party is blinkered by your tribalism. David Cameron v David Davis was not that long ago.

I am always humoured by tribal Tories calling out tribalism from their opponents.

Er, I may have been a Conservative member and voter in the past, but I think my criticism of the party on here has been vociferous. Not so from most of the Labour supporters on here, many of whom would have been happy to have the man who has been banned from their party on grounds of anti-Semitism made PM. Excuses are made for Angela "two council house sales" Rayner which they would have been howling about if it were a Tory that had done it. The inability to see any virtue in anyone who supports a different party (never kissed a Tory -cringe)This is tribalism, and sorry I am quite comfortable not being guilty of it - at all. I will critique them all. When I see @kinabalu (or you for that matter) questioning Rayner's house sales I will know he is not a tribalist.

Case concluded M'Lud!

megasaur said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

bondegezou said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

@bondegezou

Thanks for providing a selection of reading materials in the previous thread. None of the studies provided add a shred of weight to @SandyRentool's claim that 'climate change' caused the wildfires seen in Canada recently. None of them even alleges that climate change has ever caused a wildfire anywhere, though they do suggest that climate change (for which read a hotter, dryer climate) has increased the risk of more severe wildfires. Appropriately, that's bears shitting in the woods stuff.

The resource that goes into this in the most depth deals with Australia - that obviously doesn't help much with Canada, and the three papers that it references that refer to North America are all about the USA.

So, we’re agreed that climate change makes wildfires worse (and worse wildfires, in a vicious circle, dumps more CO2 into the atmosphere, increasing climate change). I think that’s the core point SandyRentool was making.

I agree that hotter, dryer conditions make wild fires likelier to spread. Blaming this on climate change is a double-edged sword - the Northern hemisphere has just had a hugely cold spring that people have also been blaming climate change for. Does that mean we should thank climate change for protecting our forests?

The real issue with these fires is afaics the people causing them. The penalties for doing so, even accidentally through lack of attention, should be huge, and the perpetrators' families should be liable for the financial cost. Secondly, there should be earlier detection of fires using all the technology at the at risk countries' disposal. News agencies reporting forest fires using lazy angles about climate change (leading to ridiculous comments like Sandy's) are missing the point.

I think if something is flammable it's going to burn at some stage whether it's human error or arson or lightning or spontaneous combustion. Lots of plants evolved to take advantage of forest fires before humans were a thing. The point is not why fires happen, it's that they do happen and planting more trees is therefore not always a good thing.

"At some stage" is ignoring the inconvenient point that humanity exists on a historical, not geological timescale - whereas our impact in terms of atmospheric CO2 (amongst other things) is a change, and likely to bring about further changes, expected only on a geological timescale.

Nigel_Foremain said:

turbotubbs said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

I think David Cameron sort of tried that, and yes there is no reason why to be green you have to be a corporatist lefty. Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out" to big money any more than all on the centre-left have "sold out" to the unions and the more corrupt money-grabbing low productivity end of the public sector.

Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out"

...but that's not today's Conservative Party is it?

Contrary to those who have a simplistic and tribal view of politics, there are still (despite Bozo's best efforts) plenty of decent people in the Conservative Party. Hopefully they will be able to restore the party to pre-Johnson respectability at some point in the future. An unchallenged Labour Party that has almost zero understanding of business and wealth creation is a very bad thing for the country.

Let's see how many decent people there are in the Conservative Party when the next leader is chosen, shall we? (A: not enough, I suspect.)

Depends on how many of them survive the decimation, assuming the huge landslide that @kinabalu believes is "baked in".

It is a sad aspect of our politics that so many tribalists want the other party to be annihilated. It is not good for anyone.

If the Tories are simply decimated, they would be delighted. As our latin learning friends would recall, decimation is the loss of 1/10th of something. Common usage has shifted it to be a much worse loss.

I think if the Tories are decimated they are still in power.

As Captain Mainwaring once said "I wondered who would spot that first"

I believe the point of decimation was that the 90% were obliged to kill the 10. So it wouldn't really work the other way round.

Mexicanpete said:

BBC WATO balancing Rishi's speech with analysis from two Conservative councillors and Michael Hpward.

Howard says Starmer is a danger to Britain.

And you breathlessly repeat it on PB.

As ever.

Give it a rest.

turbotubbs said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

I think David Cameron sort of tried that, and yes there is no reason why to be green you have to be a corporatist lefty. Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out" to big money any more than all on the centre-left have "sold out" to the unions and the more corrupt money-grabbing low productivity end of the public sector.

Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out"

...but that's not today's Conservative Party is it?

Contrary to those who have a simplistic and tribal view of politics, there are still (despite Bozo's best efforts) plenty of decent people in the Conservative Party. Hopefully they will be able to restore the party to pre-Johnson respectability at some point in the future. An unchallenged Labour Party that has almost zero understanding of business and wealth creation is a very bad thing for the country.

Let's see how many decent people there are in the Conservative Party when the next leader is chosen, shall we? (A: not enough, I suspect.)

Depends on how many of them survive the decimation, assuming the huge landslide that @kinabalu believes is "baked in".

It is a sad aspect of our politics that so many tribalists want the other party to be annihilated. It is not good for anyone.

If the Tories are simply decimated, they would be delighted. As our latin learning friends would recall, decimation is the loss of 1/10th of something. Common usage has shifted it to be a much worse loss.

I think if the Tories are decimated they are still in power.

I don't think they'd be very happy.
If we're going to be literal, it means one in ten being clubbed to death, and the rest fed on slave rations.

Nigelb said:

turbotubbs said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Benpointer said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

Roger said:

Malmesbury said:

Benpointer said:

Roger said:

Just read through the last thread. Incredible the number of fine posters on PB who have been banned yet the likes of Livermore who would probably be banned from most Nazi sites just sail on spreading their ignorant poison

Calling for other posters to be banned is not an engaging attribute imo.

As for Blanche, I disagree with their take on Gaza and on the benefits system but it hardly struck me as something that 'would probably be banned from most Nazi sites'.

Get a grip Roger.

What is this list of banned posters?

A number of people have left, but the list of banned is pretty small.

Stuart ....Ishmael....and several other Scottish posters.

And in their place we have posters like this;

"Do the Palestinians who want their kids to be martyrs have kids because they want dead Jews, or because they want the Hamas endowment? "

Even Braverman might think twice before posting this fascistic drivel. It's ugly and ill informed. My question was not to get Livermore banned but to wonder what these other posters could have written that was considered worse?

Er, that’s a totally fair question. Let’s go through it

1. Do some Palestinians WANT their sons to be martyrs? Yes, absolutely. We have tons of evidence of this. Young Gazans grow up in a theo-fascist statelet which inculcates the glory of martyrdom into them. Their parents go along with it, some embrace it (cf trans….)

2. If they want their kids to be martyred, why is that? there are two obvious reasons

2a they think killing Jews in Israel is a noble and holy cause; they want Jews in Israel dead

2b (less likely but plausible, perhaps in combination with the above) they believe it will advance the family as a whole. Gain them social status. This is hardly unknown - families sacrifice sons in martial societies in exchange for esteem and position

There. Sorted for you. @BlancheLivermore was making an entirely rational if polemical point

"Gazans"? "Theo-fascist statelet"? Remind me how most Palestinian families in Gaza got there, and also which side has bombed the churches.

You're throwing shit at Palestinians for getting killed. Apparently even when they get killed it's because they're so sick and Jew-haty that they want to be killed.

Are you denying Gaza is a “theo-fascist statelet”? Because it really is. They throw gays off buildings dontchaknow

I’ve not said a word about Israel. But here’s a few words: Israel’s behaviour is barbaric, demonic even. I’ve discussed before that they seem so traumatised by the Holocaust they are intent on re-enacting one; like abused children who reiterate that abuse in later life

But radical Islam has not done a lot to win friends in the last 40 years so I have almost zero sympathy for anyone associated with it

Quite frankly I’m bored and sickened by the whole thing and I’m tired of it hijacking global politics taking attention away from more deserving communities and problems

Let them fight to the death and be done with it

It's all immensely boring. I might prefer Israel because they're industrious, developed, Westernised and more liberal - we all know Palestine would be like another Lebanon in the counterfactual - and they run it better but it's really fucking boring and has been since at least the 1930s.

What is not - or should not be - immensely boring is the level of abuse and hatred levelled at Jews in this country by fellow citizens in recent months. It should shame us.

We can do little or nothing about what happens in the Middle East. We can and should do something about how people are treated here. Instead we barely notice, for instance, that the Green Councillor elected in Oldham is one of those whose threats against the Jewish chaplain at Leeds University led to him and his family having to go into hiding.

It’s quite something - how the Greens have evolved into this hideous new creature: obsessed with trans rights and Palestinian activism. It’s like worrying about rivers and badgers is a gateway drug into every kooky nonsensical radicalism they can find

The Green Party is and always has been a greenwashed version of the Socialist Workers Party. Most of them do not have the first clue about ecology or earth science.

Someone should start a Green Conservative Party.

After all, 'conserve' ought to be in the Tories' DNA - but they have sold out to big money of course.

I think David Cameron sort of tried that, and yes there is no reason why to be green you have to be a corporatist lefty. Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out" to big money any more than all on the centre-left have "sold out" to the unions and the more corrupt money-grabbing low productivity end of the public sector.

Many people on the centre-right have not "sold out"

...but that's not today's Conservative Party is it?

Contrary to those who have a simplistic and tribal view of politics, there are still (despite Bozo's best efforts) plenty of decent people in the Conservative Party. Hopefully they will be able to restore the party to pre-Johnson respectability at some point in the future. An unchallenged Labour Party that has almost zero understanding of business and wealth creation is a very bad thing for the country.

Let's see how many decent people there are in the Conservative Party when the next leader is chosen, shall we? (A: not enough, I suspect.)

Depends on how many of them survive the decimation, assuming the huge landslide that @kinabalu believes is "baked in".

It is a sad aspect of our politics that so many tribalists want the other party to be annihilated. It is not good for anyone.

If the Tories are simply decimated, they would be delighted. As our latin learning friends would recall, decimation is the loss of 1/10th of something. Common usage has shifted it to be a much worse loss.

I think if the Tories are decimated they are still in power.

I don't think they'd be very happy.
If we're going to be literal, it means one in ten being clubbed to death, and the rest fed on slave rations.

Now you're talking.