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I have no spur to prick the sides of my intent, but only vaulting ambition – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,550
edited May 2024 in General
imageI have no spur to prick the sides of my intent, but only vaulting ambition – politicalbetting.com

? Update: Kate Forbes has dropped her strongest hint yet that she will stand again to be Scotland’s first minister in a move that threatens to plunge the party into bitter infighting ??https://t.co/tbUqxRTjXe

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    edited May 2024
    Well, if she gets in I’ll be able to turn my ire on another narrow-minded bigot who is out of touch with contemporary society ...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,480
    No price for Nicola Sturgeon?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,568
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    No price for Nicola Sturgeon?

    If you want to back Nicola Sturgeon I will offer you 33/1.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,480
    Heathener said:

    first

    Yes, the first of May, or May Day, traditionally the day before local elections.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,127
    edited May 2024
    How about "The First Thing We Do, … " - you complete it!

    p.s. Dick the Butcher in Henry VI part 2
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,394
    Surely there is more to this case against a sex offender former officer being dropped than she found the action traumatic !!!

    Defence barrister Rajiv Menon KC told the court of the “very detrimental effect” the case had on Ms Williams.

    He said: “She has been punished to a large extent, not only by the conviction but by the end of her distinguished career as a police officer first in Nottinghamshire, latterly in the Metropolitan Police.”

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/case-dropped-against-traumatised-former-senior-officer-novlett-robyn-williams/ar-AA1nVSfP?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=4735f0dc62d447fdbff89b118319f62e&ei=14
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,480
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    No price for Nicola Sturgeon?

    If you want to back Nicola Sturgeon I will offer you 33/1.
    Have you commissioned a header on the death of feminism, or cervix-peopleism as it will henceforth be known, with Nicola Sturgeon brought down by her husband's embezzlement charge?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,568
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    No price for Nicola Sturgeon?

    If you want to back Nicola Sturgeon I will offer you 33/1.
    Have you commissioned a header on the death of feminism, or cervix-peopleism as it will henceforth be known, with Nicola Sturgeon brought down by her husband's embezzlement charge?
    I will until after the trial.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,701
    geoffw said:

    How about "The First Thing We Do, … " - you complete it!

    yeah, yeah, is kill all the lawyers. Even Shakespeare made mistakes.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,127
    DavidL said:

    geoffw said:

    How about "The First Thing We Do, … " - you complete it!

    yeah, yeah, is kill all the lawyers. Even Shakespeare made mistakes.
    Well if you're always quoting the Bard you'll be hoist by your own petard before long

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,032
    fpt because what the fuck
    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining characteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,568
    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining characteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,701
    Taz said:

    Surely there is more to this case against a sex offender former officer being dropped than she found the action traumatic !!!

    Defence barrister Rajiv Menon KC told the court of the “very detrimental effect” the case had on Ms Williams.

    He said: “She has been punished to a large extent, not only by the conviction but by the end of her distinguished career as a police officer first in Nottinghamshire, latterly in the Metropolitan Police.”

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/case-dropped-against-traumatised-former-senior-officer-novlett-robyn-williams/ar-AA1nVSfP?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=4735f0dc62d447fdbff89b118319f62e&ei=14

    You can have cases where the accused is in such a state that they are not able to competently direct the defence of the case or participate meaningfully in the process. In such cases you can either let it drop at the present time or proceed with an Enquiry into the facts without the active participation of the accused. The wording of the defence KC is curious here because he talks of his client having been punished. That seems to me an admission of guilt.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,701
    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    geoffw said:

    How about "The First Thing We Do, … " - you complete it!

    yeah, yeah, is kill all the lawyers. Even Shakespeare made mistakes.
    Well if you're always quoting the Bard you'll be hoist by your own petard before long

    A hit, a hit, a palpable hit!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,276
    Heathener said:

    Well, if she gets in I’ll be able to turn my ire on another narrow-minded bigot who is out of touch with contemporary society ...

    Self harming is never the answer.

    Have you sought counselling?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,667
    BBC commentary piece on the locals highlighted this. Not one I've seen before, but looks like an annual preview:

    https://lgiu.org/publication/ones-to-watch-2024/#section-13
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,848
    geoffw said:

    How about "The First Thing We Do, … " - you complete it!

    p.s. Dick the Butcher in Henry VI part 2

    No one wants to do Dick the Butcher.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,276
    edited May 2024
    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining characteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.


    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said.

    We don’t often get on, but on this occasion you are unambiguously right in what you say, why you say it and how you say it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,848
    "This will be my last post in the subject..."

    Repeats from last thread.

    Enough, no more. 'Tis not so sweet now as it was before.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,661
    Heathener said:

    Well, if she gets in I’ll be able to turn my ire on another narrow-minded bigot who is out of touch with contemporary society ...

    You're going to turn your ire on yourself??
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    edited May 2024
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping or @StillWaters are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,898
    I see the Times has ranked councils and puts Epping Forest DC second bottom in the entire country for financial management. Time to chuck the Tories out there!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,032
    Nigelb said:

    "This will be my last post in the subject..."

    Repeats from last thread.

    Enough, no more. 'Tis not so sweet now as it was before.

    It was the same post ffs.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    edited May 2024
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    Marvellous, telling a person of colour what is racist and what isn't racist.

    .
    As with Israel’s disgraceful treatment of Palestinians it is one of the most bitter ironies that some of those of colour can turn out to be the most vile bigots of all, viz. Braverman, Patel, Badenoch, and now Sunak.

    There’s a very Nasty streak running through the current Conservative Party.

    You will have a long long time in the political wilderness to reflect on these words whilst Keir Starmer and Labour attempt to rebuild the social, and socially embracing, fabric of this country which includes those of all creeds, colours, and class.

    p.s. I also note that the casual sexism, transphobia, homophobia which is uttered on here day in, day out, rarely gets such a challenge.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,080
    edited May 2024
    Wonderful to know that the infighting is splitting the party. It will certainly lead to its emaciation at the next GE.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    Let’s be clear, there is nothing socially inclusive or caring about the current leadership of the Conservative Party.

    And that has been the hallmark of this country with its welfare state and welcome of migrants from all parts of the globe.

    I will leave it there. Name call if it makes you feel better but, later, reflect on the truth within my words.

    Have a nice day everyone xx
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,848
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    "This will be my last post in the subject..."

    Repeats from last thread.

    Enough, no more. 'Tis not so sweet now as it was before.

    It was the same post ffs.
    If you can't see the mild absurdity of reposting your "last post", then sympathies.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,848
    On a lighter note, this thread is a masterpiece.

    Someone from @piersmorgan's staff asked if I would like to come onto Pier's show, Piers Morgan Uncensored, to talk about the state of his attire. Since he invited feedback, I thought I'd do a thread comparing his style to menswear icon Kermit the Frog. 🧵..
    https://twitter.com/dieworkwear/status/1785413336366293002
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,397
    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping or @StillWaters are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    You're tying yourself in knots here.
    Criticising a politician through the lens of ethnic background is racism.

    You can seriously dislike a PM (and I don't much like Sunak either), but you can say so without calling them "a disgrace to people of colour" - as if you're some sort of arbiter of how "people of colour" ought to behave.

    Stop digging, please.
    Sunak is an arse.

    When it comes to small minded authoritarianism, there is a rich vein of it which is entirely native to this country.

    And is native to other countries and cultures.

    As far as anyone can tell, it appears to be part of the human condition.

    The belief that, if only you could get all those messy humans to obey enough rules, everything would be… tidy.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,661
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    Marvellous, telling a person of colour what is racist and what isn't racist.

    Next you'll be calling me superficially brown.
    For many on the activist Left bigotry is fine, provided it's directed at the right people.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,075
    Casino_Royale said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    Marvellous, telling a person of colour what is racist and what isn't racist.

    Next you'll be calling me superficially brown.
    For many on the activist Left bigotry is fine, provided it's directed at the right people.
    For everyone of the right bigotry is fine, provided it's directed at the right people ?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,661
    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping or @StillWaters are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    You're tying yourself in knots here.
    Criticising a politician through the lens of ethnic background is racism.

    You can seriously dislike a PM (and I don't much like Sunak either), but you can say so without calling them "a disgrace to people of colour" - as if you're some sort of arbiter of how "people of colour" ought to behave.

    Stop digging, please.
    She will see Sunak (and others) as traitors to the cause, because they think "people of colour" should only think and vote one way.

    It's having the temerity to then attack him for damaging race relations, with absolutely no sense of irony whatsoever, really is tin-headed.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,127
    Casino_Royale said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    Marvellous, telling a person of colour what is racist and what isn't racist.

    Next you'll be calling me superficially brown.
    For many on the activist Left bigotry is fine, provided it's directed at the right people.
    That's the right-minded activist Left

  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,384
    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping or @StillWaters are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    You're tying yourself in knots here.
    Criticising a politician through the lens of ethnic background is racism.

    You can seriously dislike a PM (and I don't much like Sunak either), but you can say so without calling them "a disgrace to people of colour" - as if you're some sort of arbiter of how "people of colour" ought to behave.

    Stop digging, please.
    Absolutely.

    Politicians or all ethnicities should be able to be xenophobic or discriminatory, within the law, without bringing in their ethnic background into the conversation.

    There's plenty to criticise on the substance of what the Sunak government is doing. The Rwanda policy in particular is a deeply unethical farce - in particular the fact that valid refugees are just as stuck in Rwanda as invalid ones.

    The racial profile of the Tory frontbench has no bearing on this in either direction.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,778
    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping or @StillWaters are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    People don't get to "accept" being called racist or not. Your original post was racist, ignorant and a bit dumb too unfortunately. If you really dont want to accept it, either change your thinking or at least your expression.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,384
    edited May 2024
    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a bad idea; anyone here think otherwise ?

    The state ought not to be funding religiously segregated schools, IMO.

    England scraps 50% rule on faith school admissions
    Allowing 100% faith-based access would be divisive and likely penalise disadvantaged children, say campaigners
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/may/01/england-scraps-50-rule-on-faith-school-admissions

    I agree completely.

    I would prefer the 50% came down significantly. 100% is something that should be privately funded.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,809
    "Update: Kate Forbes has dropped her strongest hint yet that she will stand again to be Scotland’s first minister in a move that threatens to plunge the party into bitter infighting"

    TwiX Times headline. Which invites a couple of questions. Like what has happened to The Times sense of proportion. And what state does a mainstream party have to be in so that a democratic contest between two well liked moderates, Swinney and Forbes, is some sort of bloodbath like that Scottish play whose name I can't remember?

    Just asking. I have no dog in the fight, being a unionist WRT Scotland.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,612
    edited May 2024
    DavidL said:

    geoffw said:

    How about "The First Thing We Do, … " - you complete it!

    yeah, yeah, is kill all the lawyers. Even Shakespeare made mistakes.
    Surely that's Shakespeare putting words into the mouth of one of his not very heroic characters? It's not Shakespeare stating his own view.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,809
    edited May 2024
    Edit
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,778
    squareroot2 said:

    Wonderful to know that the infighting is splitting the party. It will certainly lead to its emaciation at the next GE.

    Yes, it is a darn shame for Tory members, but they have brought it all on themselves really.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,910
    Latest Betfair last price matched in the West Midlands Mayoral election

    Street 2.08
    Parker 1.72

    I laid Labour at 1.14 some time ago. Only to lose/win £14/£100.

    The last poll Yougov poll had Street leading by 2%. I like all these Shakespearen headers TSE but surely we need a leader saying

    "STREET'S AHEAD!"
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,032
    So. What's happening in Scotland, eh.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,637
    edited May 2024
    noneoftheabove said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a bad idea; anyone here think otherwise ?

    The state ought not to be funding religiously segregated schools, IMO.

    England scraps 50% rule on faith school admissions
    Allowing 100% faith-based access would be divisive and likely penalise disadvantaged children, say campaigners
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/may/01/england-scraps-50-rule-on-faith-school-admissions

    In the medium and long run this will be one of the worst policies of this ridiculous government. It is beyond a bad idea.
    It's a curious policy decision to understand because the Right (e.g. on PB) is always going on about multiculturalism, segregation, ghettoes, etc. etc. and separate schooling can be a factor in sectarianism.

    On the other hand, that 50% was for *new* faith schools, though. 100% is already OK for, for instance, C of E and RC schools unless I misunderstand? So it's unfair on (let's say) Jedi Knights for the new (say) Han Solo College to be restricted to 50% JKs when St Aloysius or St Michael's down the road aren't.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,276
    JosiasJessop said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    Marvellous, telling a person of colour what
    is racist and what isn't racist.

    Next you'll be calling me superficially brown.
    For many on the activist Left bigotry is fine, provided it's directed at the right people.
    For everyone of the right bigotry is fine, provided it's directed at the right people ?
    He’s making a serious point - the hypocrisy of the “anti racist campaigners” who simultaneously believe that “Jews don’t count” (I think that was David Baddiel’s phrase)

    On the right there are bigots, absolutely, and they should be condemned. But they are rarely hypocritical about it.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,778
    Carnyx said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a bad idea; anyone here think otherwise ?

    The state ought not to be funding religiously segregated schools, IMO.

    England scraps 50% rule on faith school admissions
    Allowing 100% faith-based access would be divisive and likely penalise disadvantaged children, say campaigners
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/may/01/england-scraps-50-rule-on-faith-school-admissions

    In the medium and long run this will be one of the worst policies of this ridiculous government. It is beyond a bad idea.
    It's a curious policy decision to understand because the Right (e.g. on PB) is always going on about multiculturalism, segregation, ghettoes, etc. etc.

    On the other hand, that 50% was for *new* faith schools, though. 100% is already OK for, for instance, C of E and RC schools unless I misunderstand? So it's unfair on (let's say) Jedi Knights for the new (say) Han Solo College to be restricted to 50% JKs when St Aloysius or St Michael's down the road aren't.

    If there are 50% Jedis, doesn't the school need 50% Siths to bring balance to the force?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,637
    noneoftheabove said:

    Carnyx said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a bad idea; anyone here think otherwise ?

    The state ought not to be funding religiously segregated schools, IMO.

    England scraps 50% rule on faith school admissions
    Allowing 100% faith-based access would be divisive and likely penalise disadvantaged children, say campaigners
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/may/01/england-scraps-50-rule-on-faith-school-admissions

    In the medium and long run this will be one of the worst policies of this ridiculous government. It is beyond a bad idea.
    It's a curious policy decision to understand because the Right (e.g. on PB) is always going on about multiculturalism, segregation, ghettoes, etc. etc.

    On the other hand, that 50% was for *new* faith schools, though. 100% is already OK for, for instance, C of E and RC schools unless I misunderstand? So it's unfair on (let's say) Jedi Knights for the new (say) Han Solo College to be restricted to 50% JKs when St Aloysius or St Michael's down the road aren't.

    If there are 50% Jedis, doesn't the school need 50% Siths to bring balance to the force?
    Oh, are they that Manichaean in their outlook? That certainly would complicate things ...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,809
    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a bad idea; anyone here think otherwise ?

    The state ought not to be funding religiously segregated schools, IMO.

    England scraps 50% rule on faith school admissions
    Allowing 100% faith-based access would be divisive and likely penalise disadvantaged children, say campaigners
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/may/01/england-scraps-50-rule-on-faith-school-admissions

    Education doesn't have right answers because individual interest will frequently come into conflict with both principle and the general good. Religiously based admission is only one fragment of the picture; by far the largest component of discrimination/segregation in education system is to do with class, poverty, how rich you are and where you live.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,778
    StillWaters said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    Marvellous, telling a person of colour what
    is racist and what isn't racist.

    Next you'll be calling me superficially brown.
    For many on the activist Left bigotry is fine, provided it's directed at the right people.
    For everyone of the right bigotry is fine, provided it's directed at the right people ?
    He’s making a serious point - the hypocrisy of the “anti racist campaigners” who simultaneously believe that “Jews don’t count” (I think that was David Baddiel’s phrase)

    On the right there are bigots, absolutely, and they should be condemned. But they are rarely hypocritical about it.
    Of course, some are hypocritcal about it. Plenty of Islamphobic right who are fierce anti-racism campaigners against anti semitism just as there plenty of anti-semitic lefties who are fierce anti-racism campaigners against Islamaphobia.

    Fortunately, most on both and left right are broadly reasonable.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,397
    JosiasJessop said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    I haven't fully been following this conversation, so it's a perfect opportunity to throw a couple of thoughts in. ;)

    *) It's perfectly possible to be two (or more) things at once. You can be a 'person of colour' and wealthy. Or a 'person of colour' and see big issues with the cultures you were raised in. That isn't a betrayal.

    *) The more we get away from stereotypes of how a certain person should act and behave according to sex, race, age, etc, the better. Women should stay at home and look after kids. Black people are all criminals. Gay men should all be flamboyant. Lesbians should all have short hair, the elderly are all waiting for God, etc, etc. Stereotypes are almost always unhelpful, and often destructive. Yet they're an easy (and lazy) way to judge people.
    Due to your last point, I am trying to come up with the combined stereotype for a Black, elderly, Lesbian.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,658
    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a bad idea; anyone here think otherwise ?

    The state ought not to be funding religiously segregated schools, IMO.

    England scraps 50% rule on faith school admissions
    Allowing 100% faith-based access would be divisive and likely penalise disadvantaged children, say campaigners
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/may/01/england-scraps-50-rule-on-faith-school-admissions

    I agree completely.

    I would prefer the 50% came down significantly. 100% is something that should be privately funded.
    Two nicely interwoven topics here which shine a light on one of the ideological cleavages in society.

    Spotlighting and emphasising group differences vs desiring the melting pot.

    On the one side the far and populist right, much of the modern identitarian left, BLM, most Northern Irish politicians, many religious groups.

    On the other the secularists, the old centre-right and centre-left, market fundamentalists, the other Northern Irish politicians.

    The criticism of secularist and melting pot / colour blind thinking is that it erases community or religious identity and freedom, and denies the effect of historical injustices that still influence life chances today. On a more prosaic level it dulls the rich diversity of cultural life.

    The criticism of identitarian thinking is it just reinforces the segregation of society, encourages in-group and out-group thinking and stereotyping, and undermines social cohesion. At its worst it’s what leads to genocide.

    Both ways of thinking have their problems, but I’d say we’ve overreacted and gone a bit too identitarian in recent years.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Persons of of faith have been & will be FM. Whether it is a Muslim (Humza) or a Christian (John & Kate). Each support the conscience vote & equal rights for all. So what is it about Kate that makes her the focus of anti-religious attacks? 🤔

    https://x.com/joannaccherry/status/1785566115759878604
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,122
    @Savanta_UK
    🚨NEW London Mayoral Voting Intention for
    @centreforlondon


    📈10pt Sadiq Khan lead

    🌹Lab 42 (-4)
    🌳Con 32 (-1)
    🔶LD 10 (+1)
    🌍Green 8 (+1)
    ➡️Reform 3 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 3 (+1)

    1,557 Londoners, 26-30 April

    (all chg vs 8-17 April)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,397
    noneoftheabove said:

    StillWaters said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    Marvellous, telling a person of colour what
    is racist and what isn't racist.

    Next you'll be calling me superficially brown.
    For many on the activist Left bigotry is fine, provided it's directed at the right people.
    For everyone of the right bigotry is fine, provided it's directed at the right people ?
    He’s making a serious point - the hypocrisy of the “anti racist campaigners” who simultaneously believe that “Jews don’t count” (I think that was David Baddiel’s phrase)

    On the right there are bigots, absolutely, and they should be condemned. But they are rarely hypocritical about it.
    Of course, some are hypocritcal about it. Plenty of Islamphobic right who are fierce anti-racism campaigners against anti semitism just as there plenty of anti-semitic lefties who are fierce anti-racism campaigners against Islamaphobia.

    Fortunately, most on both and left right are broadly reasonable.
    It's an irregular verb

    1) I, through impeccably liberal sensibilities, dislike the culture of group X
    2) You make dodgy comments
    3) He/She/They should be charged under the Race Relations Act, 1965

    A handy tool is to reverse the racial categories in a statement or idea - everyone has personal biases and this is a handy way to find them.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,778
    Scott_xP said:

    @Savanta_UK
    🚨NEW London Mayoral Voting Intention for
    @centreforlondon


    📈10pt Sadiq Khan lead

    🌹Lab 42 (-4)
    🌳Con 32 (-1)
    🔶LD 10 (+1)
    🌍Green 8 (+1)
    ➡️Reform 3 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 3 (+1)

    1,557 Londoners, 26-30 April

    (all chg vs 8-17 April)

    Should be prompting for Count Binface by now. Bindependence Day on Friday.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,397
    Carnyx said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Carnyx said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a bad idea; anyone here think otherwise ?

    The state ought not to be funding religiously segregated schools, IMO.

    England scraps 50% rule on faith school admissions
    Allowing 100% faith-based access would be divisive and likely penalise disadvantaged children, say campaigners
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/may/01/england-scraps-50-rule-on-faith-school-admissions

    In the medium and long run this will be one of the worst policies of this ridiculous government. It is beyond a bad idea.
    It's a curious policy decision to understand because the Right (e.g. on PB) is always going on about multiculturalism, segregation, ghettoes, etc. etc.

    On the other hand, that 50% was for *new* faith schools, though. 100% is already OK for, for instance, C of E and RC schools unless I misunderstand? So it's unfair on (let's say) Jedi Knights for the new (say) Han Solo College to be restricted to 50% JKs when St Aloysius or St Michael's down the road aren't.

    If there are 50% Jedis, doesn't the school need 50% Siths to bring balance to the force?
    Oh, are they that Manichaean in their outlook? That certainly would complicate things ...
    1) The Jedi believe that destroying the Sith is "bringing balance to the force"
    2) The school operational policies of the Jedi breach a number of safeguarding rules. And some fairly major child protection ones.
    3) Sith rocking up at a school would cause, at minimum, serious distress to the children and teachers. Given what has happened before.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,034
    edited May 2024
    noneoftheabove said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Savanta_UK
    🚨NEW London Mayoral Voting Intention for
    @centreforlondon


    📈10pt Sadiq Khan lead

    🌹Lab 42 (-4)
    🌳Con 32 (-1)
    🔶LD 10 (+1)
    🌍Green 8 (+1)
    ➡️Reform 3 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 3 (+1)

    1,557 Londoners, 26-30 April

    (all chg vs 8-17 April)

    Should be prompting for Count Binface by now. Bindependence Day on Friday.
    It would be awesome if Binface got his deposit back, I’d vote for him over the other options on offer.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,152
    The SNP just need to ask themselves whether they are likely to lose more voters to Labour/Greens under Forbes or Tories/Alba under Swinney.

    Sturgeon's genius was converting a pre-2014 rural SNP into a central belt winning political machine. Going for Forbes = abandoning the central belt and a reversion to their former role as Tartan Tories.

    There simply aren't enough rural constituencies for that to work, though perhaps Yousaf's failure to count is contagious?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,397
    algarkirk said:

    "Update: Kate Forbes has dropped her strongest hint yet that she will stand again to be Scotland’s first minister in a move that threatens to plunge the party into bitter infighting"

    TwiX Times headline. Which invites a couple of questions. Like what has happened to The Times sense of proportion. And what state does a mainstream party have to be in so that a democratic contest between two well liked moderates, Swinney and Forbes, is some sort of bloodbath like that Scottish play whose name I can't remember?

    Just asking. I have no dog in the fight, being a unionist WRT Scotland.

    -1 for no dog for scale.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,191
    Nigelb said:

    On a lighter note, this thread is a masterpiece.

    Someone from @piersmorgan's staff asked if I would like to come onto Pier's show, Piers Morgan Uncensored, to talk about the state of his attire. Since he invited feedback, I thought I'd do a thread comparing his style to menswear icon Kermit the Frog. 🧵..
    https://twitter.com/dieworkwear/status/1785413336366293002

    A masterly dissection (of the redfaced toad, not the frog).
    Assume Derek will be going on the shitlist along with Harry & Megs.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,191
    TOPPING said:

    So. What's happening in Scotland, eh.

    How many posts can we expect from you on how unimportant it is?
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,394
    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining characteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    It is at times like this that PB needs animated GIFs and this post deserves a standing ovation.

    Very very well said Sir.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,191
    CarlottaVance said:

    Persons of of faith have been & will be FM. Whether it is a Muslim (Humza) or a Christian (John & Kate). Each support the conscience vote & equal rights for all. So what is it about Kate that makes her the focus of anti-religious attacks? 🤔

    https://x.com/joannaccherry/status/1785566115759878604

    Though Kate is no Ash Regan (who only an idiot would have plumped for as leader), whiff off getting their excuses in early.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,366
    algarkirk said:

    "Update: Kate Forbes has dropped her strongest hint yet that she will stand again to be Scotland’s first minister in a move that threatens to plunge the party into bitter infighting"

    TwiX Times headline. Which invites a couple of questions. Like what has happened to The Times sense of proportion. And what state does a mainstream party have to be in so that a democratic contest between two well liked moderates, Swinney and Forbes, is some sort of bloodbath like that Scottish play whose name I can't remember?

    Just asking. I have no dog in the fight, being a unionist WRT Scotland.

    It's just that when a negative narrative sets in, it's hard to shift. As with the Tories south of the border, the SNP narrative is of an ungovernable crisis party on its way down. So it's easy writing articles that lean into that (broadly accurate) perception, even if the particular circumstances of the specific case don't really justify it.

    Similarly, the easy Westminster story now features a beleaguered PM clinging onto power while his party plot and fight like ferrets in a sack, even if the actual news being reported is pretty neutral for Sunak.

    It's a bit unfair, although the broad perception doesn't come from nowhere. They say you shouldn't kick someone when they are down... but it's basically the easiest and safest time to kick someone, so that's what happens.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,935
    edited May 2024
    Stuartinromford said:

    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping or @StillWaters are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    You're tying yourself in knots here.
    Criticising a politician through the lens of ethnic background is racism.

    You can seriously dislike a PM (and I don't much like Sunak either), but you can say so without calling them "a disgrace to people of colour" - as if you're some sort of arbiter of how "people of colour" ought to behave.

    Stop digging, please.
    The maddening thing is that Sunak's apparent lack of empathy for the struggles of 99.9% of the public is a thing and is very relevant for understanding the current political scene.

    But that's significant on its own terms without bringing race or religion into it. Indeed, that throws off some chaff that hides the question.
    Good morning

    @Heathener comments on Sunak were unacceptable, no matter how much you disagree with him, and as posters from across the political divide have rightly condemned the comments as racist

    Uncalled for and deeply unpleasant
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,394
    Scott_xP said:

    @Savanta_UK
    🚨NEW London Mayoral Voting Intention for
    @centreforlondon


    📈10pt Sadiq Khan lead

    🌹Lab 42 (-4)
    🌳Con 32 (-1)
    🔶LD 10 (+1)
    🌍Green 8 (+1)
    ➡️Reform 3 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 3 (+1)

    1,557 Londoners, 26-30 April

    (all chg vs 8-17 April)

    If she is such a shit candidate how on earth does she poll those numbers relative to the Tories polling in London.

    I know little of the London Mayoral contest apart from Khan is obnoxious and she's supposed to be a terrible candidate. But this seems not to make sense.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,935
    Eabhal said:

    The SNP just need to ask themselves whether they are likely to lose more voters to Labour/Greens under Forbes or Tories/Alba under Swinney.

    Sturgeon's genius was converting a pre-2014 rural SNP into a central belt winning political machine. Going for Forbes = abandoning the central belt and a reversion to their former role as Tartan Tories.

    There simply aren't enough rural constituencies for that to work, though perhaps Yousaf's failure to count is contagious?

    Like the conservative party the SNP need an extended period in opposition
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,637
    edited May 2024
    Malmesbury said:

    Carnyx said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Carnyx said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a bad idea; anyone here think otherwise ?

    The state ought not to be funding religiously segregated schools, IMO.

    England scraps 50% rule on faith school admissions
    Allowing 100% faith-based access would be divisive and likely penalise disadvantaged children, say campaigners
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/may/01/england-scraps-50-rule-on-faith-school-admissions

    In the medium and long run this will be one of the worst policies of this ridiculous government. It is beyond a bad idea.
    It's a curious policy decision to understand because the Right (e.g. on PB) is always going on about multiculturalism, segregation, ghettoes, etc. etc.

    On the other hand, that 50% was for *new* faith schools, though. 100% is already OK for, for instance, C of E and RC schools unless I misunderstand? So it's unfair on (let's say) Jedi Knights for the new (say) Han Solo College to be restricted to 50% JKs when St Aloysius or St Michael's down the road aren't.

    If there are 50% Jedis, doesn't the school need 50% Siths to bring balance to the force?
    Oh, are they that Manichaean in their outlook? That certainly would complicate things ...
    1) The Jedi believe that destroying the Sith is "bringing balance to the force"
    2) The school operational policies of the Jedi breach a number of safeguarding rules. And some fairly major child protection ones.
    3) Sith rocking up at a school would cause, at minimum, serious distress to the children and teachers. Given what has happened before.
    Seriously, though, that is a strange policy change - not least because one apparent justification is that it would enable more SEND schools etc. which raises questions in my mind about what happens to children of parents who don't meet the criteria. Certainly [edit] a report that might ijnterest @dixiedean .
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    So, it looks like we’re going to be doing this whole bunch of guys (or at least people siding with a guy) monster the young woman and parade her as some sort of witch thing, again …. how enlightened

    https://x.com/chrismusson/status/1785396751320395901

    I see the sexist witch hunt against Kate Forbes is in full swing again this morning amongst some of our male commentariat. Cynical misrepresentation of her positions positively dripping with misogyny.

    https://x.com/joannaccherry/status/1785559102472516077?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,397
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    algarkirk said:

    "Update: Kate Forbes has dropped her strongest hint yet that she will stand again to be Scotland’s first minister in a move that threatens to plunge the party into bitter infighting"

    TwiX Times headline. Which invites a couple of questions. Like what has happened to The Times sense of proportion. And what state does a mainstream party have to be in so that a democratic contest between two well liked moderates, Swinney and Forbes, is some sort of bloodbath like that Scottish play whose name I can't remember?

    Just asking. I have no dog in the fight, being a unionist WRT Scotland.

    It's just that when a negative narrative sets in, it's hard to shift. As with the Tories south of the border, the SNP narrative is of an ungovernable crisis party on its way down. So it's easy writing articles that lean into that (broadly accurate) perception, even if the particular circumstances of the specific case don't really justify it.

    Similarly, the easy Westminster story now features a beleaguered PM clinging onto power while his party plot and fight like ferrets in a sack, even if the actual news being reported is pretty neutral for Sunak.

    It's a bit unfair, although the broad perception doesn't come from nowhere. They say you shouldn't kick someone when they are down... but it's basically the easiest and safest time to kick someone, so that's what happens.
    Part of the problem is that the narrative is always "a fight"

    When Cameron ran to be leader of the Conservative Party, there were numerous attempts to spin it as "war", "strife" etc. Despite it being one of the more polite and policy based leadership campaigns I can recall.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,701
    Miss Vance, the line against Forbes may not be misogyny, as a similar approach was taken against the Lib Dem chap whose name escapes me.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,433
    CarlottaVance said:

    Persons of of faith have been & will be FM. Whether it is a Muslim (Humza) or a Christian (John & Kate). Each support the conscience vote & equal rights for all. So what is it about Kate that makes her the focus of anti-religious attacks? 🤔

    https://x.com/joannaccherry/status/1785566115759878604

    Because they either don't share her - out of mainstream opinion - views on religious/moral matters or are smart/dishonest enough to keep those views hidden?

    I know Yousaf missed the equal marriage vote, for example, but he has been public about his support for it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,637
    Theuniondivvie said:

    TOPPING said:

    So. What's happening in Scotland, eh.

    How many posts can we expect from you on how unimportant it is?
    Indeed. You'd think Topping'd be more interested in, say, East Meon Parish Council meetings, on the evidence of his own sayings.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,394
    Casino_Royale said:

    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping or @StillWaters are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    You're tying yourself in knots here.
    Criticising a politician through the lens of ethnic background is racism.

    You can seriously dislike a PM (and I don't much like Sunak either), but you can say so without calling them "a disgrace to people of colour" - as if you're some sort of arbiter of how "people of colour" ought to behave.

    Stop digging, please.
    She will see Sunak (and others) as traitors to the cause, because they think "people of colour" should only think and vote one way.

    It's having the temerity to then attack him for damaging race relations, with absolutely no sense of irony whatsoever, really is tin-headed.
    It is one of the crassest and most stupid comments I have ever seen here. Totally unacceptable and instead of the self awareness to realise it she just doubles down and goes on the attack. I presume we are due a comment about middle aged white men and a flounce in due course.

    Racism is just not acceptable.

    Topping was right to call it out. I caught up with it when I logged on this morning.

    She does seem to have united right and left here on the matter though.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,032
    Theuniondivvie said:

    TOPPING said:

    So. What's happening in Scotland, eh.

    How many posts can we expect from you on how unimportant it is?
    Everything is relative. What's the feeling in Craignure.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,152
    edited May 2024
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Eabhal said:

    The SNP just need to ask themselves whether they are likely to lose more voters to Labour/Greens under Forbes or Tories/Alba under Swinney.

    Sturgeon's genius was converting a pre-2014 rural SNP into a central belt winning political machine. Going for Forbes = abandoning the central belt and a reversion to their former role as Tartan Tories.

    There simply aren't enough rural constituencies for that to work, though perhaps Yousaf's failure to count is contagious?

    Like the conservative party the SNP need an extended period in opposition
    It's wrong to pool them with the Tories - it's not like the SNP are 20 points behind. They are tied with Labour.

    Sorry to break the PB consensus but given they have been in power (more or less) since 2007, their former CEO has been charged with embezzlement, former leader arrested, a campervan has gone missing, forensic tent on the drive, unable to recycle plastic bottles, and TRANS, that's rather astonishing.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,394
    Stuartinromford said:

    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping or @StillWaters are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    You're tying yourself in knots here.
    Criticising a politician through the lens of ethnic background is racism.

    You can seriously dislike a PM (and I don't much like Sunak either), but you can say so without calling them "a disgrace to people of colour" - as if you're some sort of arbiter of how "people of colour" ought to behave.

    Stop digging, please.
    The maddening thing is that Sunak's apparent lack of empathy for the struggles of 99.9% of the public is a thing and is very relevant for understanding the current political scene.

    But that's significant on its own terms without bringing race or religion into it. Indeed, that throws off some chaff that hides the question.
    He is just a poor communicator. He seems ill at ease when under pressure too. I do not doubt for one minute he cares about people and cares about improving life for people. It never really comes over. He lacks charisma.

    You often hear it about politicians that "if only the public could see the person we see".
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,032
    Morris_Dancer said:

    the Lib Dem chap whose name escapes me.

    That is the story of the LDs.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,032
    Carnyx said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    TOPPING said:

    So. What's happening in Scotland, eh.

    How many posts can we expect from you on how unimportant it is?
    Indeed. You'd think Topping'd be more interested in, say, East Meon Parish Council meetings, on the evidence of his own sayings.
    Ahem, West Meon pls.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,810
    noneoftheabove said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Savanta_UK
    🚨NEW London Mayoral Voting Intention for
    @centreforlondon


    📈10pt Sadiq Khan lead

    🌹Lab 42 (-4)
    🌳Con 32 (-1)
    🔶LD 10 (+1)
    🌍Green 8 (+1)
    ➡️Reform 3 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 3 (+1)

    1,557 Londoners, 26-30 April

    (all chg vs 8-17 April)

    Should be prompting for Count Binface by now. Bindependence Day on Friday.
    Just heard that General Waste endorses this message!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,191
    edited May 2024
    algarkirk said:

    "Update: Kate Forbes has dropped her strongest hint yet that she will stand again to be Scotland’s first minister in a move that threatens to plunge the party into bitter infighting"

    TwiX Times headline. Which invites a couple of questions. Like what has happened to The Times sense of proportion. And what state does a mainstream party have to be in so that a democratic contest between two well liked moderates, Swinney and Forbes, is some sort of bloodbath like that Scottish play whose name I can't remember?

    Just asking. I have no dog in the fight, being a unionist WRT Scotland.

    The BBC, particularly in Scotland, often take their lead from the papers but in this case it’s more a joint effort. R4 is has been having one of their ever more frequent forays across the border, days of leading the news on what Kate (no, not that Kate) ‘might’ be doing, what the BBC has learned from sources and Nick Robinson & Chris Mason chortling over each other’s cleverness. It’s enough to make me sympathise with the colonel of the PB regiment.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,454
    Heathener said:

    Well, if she gets in I’ll be able to turn my ire on another narrow-minded bigot who is out of touch with contemporary society ...

    Says the bigot of bigots
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,454
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    No price for Nicola Sturgeon?

    You could not give her away
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,637
    Eabhal said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Eabhal said:

    The SNP just need to ask themselves whether they are likely to lose more voters to Labour/Greens under Forbes or Tories/Alba under Swinney.

    Sturgeon's genius was converting a pre-2014 rural SNP into a central belt winning political machine. Going for Forbes = abandoning the central belt and a reversion to their former role as Tartan Tories.

    There simply aren't enough rural constituencies for that to work, though perhaps Yousaf's failure to count is contagious?

    Like the conservative party the SNP need an extended period in opposition
    It's wrong to pool them with the Tories - it's not like the SNP are 20 points behind. They are tied with Labour.

    Sorry to break the PB consensus but given they have been in power (more or less) since 2007, their former CEO has been charged with embezzlement, former leader arrested, a campervan has gone missing, forensic tent on the drive, unable to recycle plastic bottles, and TRANS, that's rather astonishing.
    Polis Scotland have lost the campervan? Jings.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,433
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Miss Vance, the line against Forbes may not be misogyny, as a similar approach was taken against the Lib Dem chap whose name escapes me.

    Farron (whom I felt a bit sorry for).

    There are different approaches, but it's fine, in my opinion, to have personal views for oneself that are out of step with the party line, but not really possible to have personal views on what other people should do (or call them sinners) that are out of step with party line.

    Take me - I don't think I would ever want an abortion for a child of mine, under any circumstances except danger to the mother or (possibly - and I'm not sure about this) knowing the foetus had severe abnormalities that would dramatically shorten life and lead to a poor quality of life in that time. But I absolutely believe in the rights of women to have control over their bodies and have abortions up to [some date - which is debatable, but I think the current UK threshold is reasoonable] for any reason. I could lead the Lib Dems with that viewpoint, but I don't think I could lead the Lib Dems if I thought abortion was a sin and quietly wanted it banned for others.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Taz said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping or @StillWaters are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    You're tying yourself in knots here.
    Criticising a politician through the lens of ethnic background is racism.

    You can seriously dislike a PM (and I don't much like Sunak either), but you can say so without calling them "a disgrace to people of colour" - as if you're some sort of arbiter of how "people of colour" ought to behave.

    Stop digging, please.
    The maddening thing is that Sunak's apparent lack of empathy for the struggles of 99.9% of the public is a thing and is very relevant for understanding the current political scene.

    But that's significant on its own terms without bringing race or religion into it. Indeed, that throws off some chaff that hides the question.
    He is just a poor communicator. He seems ill at ease when under pressure too. I do not doubt for one minute he cares about people and cares about improving life for people. It never really comes over. He lacks charisma.

    You often hear it about politicians that "if only the public could see the person we see".
    Mrs May being a case in point - I knew her at University - funny, witty and quite sharp. Not the leaden automaton that came across at all.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Scott_xP said:

    @Savanta_UK
    🚨NEW London Mayoral Voting Intention for
    @centreforlondon


    📈10pt Sadiq Khan lead

    🌹Lab 42 (-4)
    🌳Con 32 (-1)
    🔶LD 10 (+1)
    🌍Green 8 (+1)
    ➡️Reform 3 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 3 (+1)

    1,557 Londoners, 26-30 April

    (all chg vs 8-17 April)

    We can see why the Tories changed the voting system . With the old system Khan would win very easily .
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,936
    Scott_xP said:

    @Savanta_UK
    🚨NEW London Mayoral Voting Intention for
    @centreforlondon


    📈10pt Sadiq Khan lead

    🌹Lab 42 (-4)
    🌳Con 32 (-1)
    🔶LD 10 (+1)
    🌍Green 8 (+1)
    ➡️Reform 3 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 3 (+1)

    1,557 Londoners, 26-30 April

    (all chg vs 8-17 April)

    YouGov have a massive Lab lead

    London Mayoral Voting Intention:

    Khan (LAB): 47% (+1)
    Hall (CON): 25% (-2)
    Garbett (GRN): 7% (-2)
    Blackie (LDM): 6% (-2)
    Cox (RFM): 6% (=)
    Others: 8% (+4)

    Via
    @YouGov
    , 24-30 Apr.
    Changes w/ 9-17 Apr.

    YouGov have tended to show the biggest Lab leads for the general election as well, so will be an interesting test to see if YouGov are over-stating Labour in real elections or not.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,454
    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a bad idea; anyone here think otherwise ?

    The state ought not to be funding religiously segregated schools, IMO.

    England scraps 50% rule on faith school admissions
    Allowing 100% faith-based access would be divisive and likely penalise disadvantaged children, say campaigners
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/may/01/england-scraps-50-rule-on-faith-school-admissions

    Very bad idea , anyone wanting sgregated schools based on religion shoudl pay the full cost themselves, every last penny.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,640
    JosiasJessop said:

    Heathener said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt because what the fuck

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary remark about Sunak being “un-British” because of his Indian caste & master mentality

    😶

    I had to go back and check it was actually said. It was said. Is this the *kind of racism that is actually ok coz I’m on the left* racism?

    Is Heathener actually a lefty? Regardless its both bonkers and not okay.
    Definitely a lefty. However @Heathener is so nutty - simultaneously an award winning writer, a far ranging traveller, a post woman, a TV presenter, a known expert on trans issues, and an impoverished single mother who has to save her boiled water in thermos flask - I sometimes wonder if she is a mad sock puppet created by me to see how much bollocks people will believe

    At this point I am keen to disown her. Not my doing
    We know that, your previous attempt to write in a different character during the gestation of Byronic having stood up for all of just two days.
    Indeed. Or indeed in his previous guise as Sean T.

    Being ‘disowned’ by the misogynistic writer who boasts in his book of abusing girls in Asia is hardly the coup de grace he imagines.

    It does bemuse me though when people who have never immersed themselves fully (and I mean fully) in other cultures tie themselves in knots over race. Racism exists everywhere. Of course, some has important historic context that cannot be ignored.

    But evil is evil and Sunak’s version is profoundly not the way this country has evolved over the past 300 years. His is an attempt to unweave the social fabric of this country and supplant it with an uncaring, dog-eats-dog Singaporean style ruthlessness. It’s not the British way, or at least not the way this country has thankfully evolved.

    In a similar way one might describe Thatcher as non-conservative.

    The British Empire was often, perhaps mostly, pretty dreadful - especially the East India Company - but we did eventually accept our seafaring role meant two-way traffic. We embraced diversity and culture, welcoming to these shores those who enriched this way of life even as so-called indigenous peoples here were already themselves part of a cultural bricolage.

    Attacking minority groups and the vulnerable, demonising those who don’t conform to a nasty little ruthless business ethic, is profoundly not what this country is about.

    Thanks for listening.

    xx
    This will be my last post on the subject or to you.

    For whatever noble, high falutin', dare I say uber woke reason your comment yesterday was vile. And unambiguously racist.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is British but from immigrant stock. Recent immigrant stock that is because few of us are not at some point in history.

    You have just told them that they are not properly British, that they in your eyes can't escape a characteristic from their "own" culture and moreover that there is a defining chatrracteristic of "their", and of British culture.

    It is exactly the same language as the most virulent racists use to other such people.

    To borrow from the PO Inquiry vernacular, you are either a racist or a moron and I don't care which it is.

    So you can take your Archbishop John Sentamu told mes and your don't you realises and you can fuck right off.

    Well said, their post was so much like the chant 'Their ain't no black in the Union Jack.'
    That’s drivel

    The whole point is that people like Sunak are a disgrace to people of colour who have made this country what it is.

    I’m sorry you and @Topping are unable to see this. I’m happy to agree to disagree but I will not accept being called racist over it.

    The bitter irony is that it’s the likes of Sunak, Badenoch, and Braverman who are causing untold damage to race relations, and minority relations, in this country.

    I guess you tories just won’t get it until you have spent a long, long, time in the political wilderness. Which you will.
    I haven't fully been following this conversation, so it's a perfect opportunity to throw a couple of thoughts in. ;)

    *) It's perfectly possible to be two (or more) things at once. You can be a 'person of colour' and wealthy. Or a 'person of colour' and see big issues with the cultures you were raised in. That isn't a betrayal.

    *) The more we get away from stereotypes of how a certain person should act and behave according to sex, race, age, etc, the better. Women should stay at home and look after kids. Black people are all criminals. Gay men should all be flamboyant. Lesbians should all have short hair, the elderly are all waiting for God, etc, etc. Stereotypes are almost always unhelpful, and often destructive. Yet they're an easy (and lazy) way to judge people.
    My two penn’orth…

    I find it fascinating how people can hold different, often competing, identities, but sometimes (often?) their political identity is most important to them. An example of this would be Muslims who still support the Tory Party.

    To me, it seems, Muslims are to the right, or certain sections of the right, what Jews were in the 30s. A bogeyman. And that fear, suspicion, dislike, call it what you will, of Muslims transcends any supposed solidarity that we in the UK suppose should exist between brown people.

    So Braverman, Sunak, Badenoch, Habib for Reform, despite being non-white and perhaps in the eyes of many should have some kind of non-white brotherhood are instead very anti-Muslim. Because they supposedly don’t share ‘our values’ and are swamping the country from small boats, or something.

    So if I were a Muslim I would think sod the Tories, they don’t like me and my kind. But many Muslim people do still support the Tories, because they agree with them in a number of ways that are more important to them than that underlying suspicion of Muslims.

    If I’d been a gay Tory in times past I think similarly that I would have found it impossible to remain in the Party through section 28 and all that stuff.

    You could say a similar argument could be made for Jews who stayed in Labour during the Corbyn years.

    I don’t see why we should expect our non-white politicians to be any more immune from stoking race tensions, culture war, religious divisions, just because they’re not white.

    I find some of Badenoch and Braverman’s comments around race and the legacy of empire extraordinary, personally, but humans are strange creatures.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,848
    Benpointer said:

    DavidL said:

    geoffw said:

    How about "The First Thing We Do, … " - you complete it!

    yeah, yeah, is kill all the lawyers. Even Shakespeare made mistakes.
    Surely that's Shakespeare putting words into the mouth of one of his not very heroic characters? It's not Shakespeare stating his own view.
    Something he really never did.
    While he wrote his histories from the point of view of Tudor ideology - something necessary for survival - he was pretty sly at presenting the opposing view in an equally dramatically compelling manner.

    Macbeth was a very dangerous play to publish under the (justifiably) paranoid James Stuart, but his adroitness at presenting subversive ideas within a frame of orthodoxy allowed him to carry it off.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    I think some London voters aren’t aware of the change to the voting system . Susan Hall should be kryptonite to the Greens and Lib Dems .
  • eekeek Posts: 30,481
    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a bad idea; anyone here think otherwise ?

    The state ought not to be funding religiously segregated schools, IMO.

    England scraps 50% rule on faith school admissions
    Allowing 100% faith-based access would be divisive and likely penalise disadvantaged children, say campaigners
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/may/01/england-scraps-50-rule-on-faith-school-admissions

    Very bad idea , anyone wanting sgregated schools based on religion shoudl pay the full cost themselves, every last penny.
    How else can this Government give their mates more of the sweeties they want before the next election destroys them once and for all
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,661
    Today is a significant day.

    Today is the day @he
    Scott_xP said:

    @Savanta_UK
    🚨NEW London Mayoral Voting Intention for
    @centreforlondon


    📈10pt Sadiq Khan lead

    🌹Lab 42 (-4)
    🌳Con 32 (-1)
    🔶LD 10 (+1)
    🌍Green 8 (+1)
    ➡️Reform 3 (+1)
    ⬜️Other 3 (+1)

    1,557 Londoners, 26-30 April

    (all chg vs 8-17 April)

    Ooh, my 22/1 bet is now within the MoE.

    Tasty.
This discussion has been closed.