Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
What is it about 30%? According the the Economist 30% of Americans believe that Trump has been anointed by God to lead them.
Not good, God.
How do they know it is God? It could be some random with a fire proof Bluetooth speaker, a can of flamables and a handy bush…
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Nice of you to return with a juicy bit of libel for us.
"Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn: Why I called Hamas our friends"
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Nice of you to return with a juicy bit of libel for us.
"Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn: Why I called Hamas our friends"
Er, I can read and at no point does Corbyn say he supports the bombing of Israel. I hope for Mike's sake that Corbyn isn't litigious.
Do you think Corbyn believes the Palestinians have no right to defend themselves? ie no right to launch missiles at Israel as Israel bombs Gaza into the stone age?
Of course he believes they have the right to do that. I personally believe they have the right to do that. The Gazans are being brutally attacked, are they meant to just sit there and do nothing, as they all die?
So any sane person "supports the bombing of Israel" inasmuch as they sadly support the normal rules of war
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
Former Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell and fellow Labour MP Zarah Sultana have been urged to explain their participation at a rally held by the Palestine Solidarity Campaign and the Stop the War Coalition, where the crowd called for Hamas to “blow up” an Israeli city.
When you produce a single quote from any British MP suggesting The Palestinians should blow up an Israeli city then it could be worth continuing this conversation. Your Reductio ad Absurdum is just fucking boring.
You don't need to decode what an MP means when they call Hamas and Hezbollah their "friends".
Your excuse-making and denialism is even more effing boring.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Nice of you to return with a juicy bit of libel for us.
"Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn: Why I called Hamas our friends"
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
Former Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell and fellow Labour MP Zarah Sultana have been urged to explain their participation at a rally held by the Palestine Solidarity Campaign and the Stop the War Coalition, where the crowd called for Hamas to “blow up” an Israeli city.
When you produce a single quote from any British MP suggesting The Palestinians should blow up an Israeli city then it could be worth continuing this conversation. Your Reductio ad Absurdum is just fucking boring.
You don't need to decode what an MP means when they call Hamas and Hezbollah their "friends".
Your excuse-making and denialism is even more effing boring.
'Friends' wasn't the worst of it - he also called Hamas a "force for social justice in the region" - which rather gives the lie to the excuse that he has made since that he was merely using diplomatic language.
Given Hamas had never made any secret of their ultimate goal (clue, Austrian painters would fit right in) calling them a "force for social justice" is possibly the single stupidest and most offensive thing an MP has said in recent memory - and that's with some Olympic-level competition from Brexiteers on the Tory right.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Nice of you to return with a juicy bit of libel for us.
"Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn: Why I called Hamas our friends"
Er, I can read and at no point does Corbyn say he supports the bombing of Israel. I hope for Mike's sake that Corbyn isn't litigious.
He supports Hamas and Hezbollah, two organisations that exist solely to bomb Israel and whose raison d'etre is the destruction of Israel.
Your argument is as facile as suggesting people who openly supported the IRA during the Troubles weren't supporting bombings.
Oh wait - he did that too! 🤦♂️
He doesn't support Hamas and Hezbollah, he supports talking to them in order to make peace. Just as he supported talking to the IRA to make peace. Eventually the British government agreed with him in public (they'd been talking to the IRA in private for decades of course) and lo and behold, after talking to the IRA we now have peace in Northern Ireland.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Nice of you to return with a juicy bit of libel for us.
"Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn: Why I called Hamas our friends"
Er, I can read and at no point does Corbyn say he supports the bombing of Israel. I hope for Mike's sake that Corbyn isn't litigious.
Do you think Corbyn believes the Palestinians have no right to defend themselves? ie no right to launch missiles at Israel as Israel bombs Gaza into the stone age?
Of course he believes they have the right to do that. I personally believe they have the right to do that. The Gazans are being brutally attacked, are they meant to just sit there and do nothing, as they all die?
So any sane person "supports the bombing of Israel" inasmuch as they sadly support the normal rules of war
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
This is the obvious, inexorable endpoint for what Israel is doing. It is the only way they can permanently prevent a repeat of October 7. And if they don't achieve that goal - making October 7 unrepeatable - then the war is pointless, indeed hideously counter-productive
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
Former Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell and fellow Labour MP Zarah Sultana have been urged to explain their participation at a rally held by the Palestine Solidarity Campaign and the Stop the War Coalition, where the crowd called for Hamas to “blow up” an Israeli city.
When you produce a single quote from any British MP suggesting The Palestinians should blow up an Israeli city then it could be worth continuing this conversation. Your Reductio ad Absurdum is just fucking boring.
You don't need to decode what an MP means when they call Hamas and Hezbollah their "friends".
Your excuse-making and denialism is even more effing boring.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Israel has murdered over 21,000 people, and made nigh on 2 million homeless. SINCE Oct 7th.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Nice of you to return with a juicy bit of libel for us.
"Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn: Why I called Hamas our friends"
Er, I can read and at no point does Corbyn say he supports the bombing of Israel. I hope for Mike's sake that Corbyn isn't litigious.
He supports Hamas and Hezbollah, two organisations that exist solely to bomb Israel and whose raison d'etre is the destruction of Israel.
Your argument is as facile as suggesting people who openly supported the IRA during the Troubles weren't supporting bombings.
Oh wait - he did that too! 🤦♂️
He doesn't support Hamas and Hezbollah, he supports talking to them in order to make peace. Just as he supported talking to the IRA to make peace. Eventually the British government agreed with him in public (they'd been talking to the IRA in private for decades of course) and lo and behold, after talking to the IRA we now have peace in Northern Ireland.
"Talking to them in order to make peace" is a euphemism for "conceding to them because they are in the right".
It's not consistent for anyone who believes that Israel is an illegitimate settler-colonialist project to support its right to exist in anything like its present form.
This is the obvious, inexorable endpoint for what Israel is doing. It is the only way they can permanently prevent a repeat of October 7. And if they don't achieve that goal - making October 7 unrepeatable - then the war is pointless, indeed hideously counter-productive
First Israeli Conscientious Objector of the Gaza War Is Jailed: 'I Know It's the Right Thing'
Tal Mitnick, 18, is currently serving 30 days in a military jail after refusing to be drafted into the Israel Defense Forces on Tuesday. The government wants to 'deepen the occupation and disallow any kind of dissent,' he said on the eve of his sentencing.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Nice of you to return with a juicy bit of libel for us.
"Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn: Why I called Hamas our friends"
Er, I can read and at no point does Corbyn say he supports the bombing of Israel. I hope for Mike's sake that Corbyn isn't litigious.
He supports Hamas and Hezbollah, two organisations that exist solely to bomb Israel and whose raison d'etre is the destruction of Israel.
Your argument is as facile as suggesting people who openly supported the IRA during the Troubles weren't supporting bombings.
Oh wait - he did that too! 🤦♂️
He doesn't support Hamas and Hezbollah, he supports talking to them in order to make peace. Just as he supported talking to the IRA to make peace. Eventually the British government agreed with him in public (they'd been talking to the IRA in private for decades of course) and lo and behold, after talking to the IRA we now have peace in Northern Ireland.
Are you actually so naive as to believe that, or are you expecting us just to accept that bullshit?
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Nice of you to return with a juicy bit of libel for us.
"Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn: Why I called Hamas our friends"
Er, I can read and at no point does Corbyn say he supports the bombing of Israel. I hope for Mike's sake that Corbyn isn't litigious.
He supports Hamas and Hezbollah, two organisations that exist solely to bomb Israel and whose raison d'etre is the destruction of Israel.
Your argument is as facile as suggesting people who openly supported the IRA during the Troubles weren't supporting bombings.
Oh wait - he did that too! 🤦♂️
He doesn't support Hamas and Hezbollah, he supports talking to them in order to make peace. Just as he supported talking to the IRA to make peace. Eventually the British government agreed with him in public (they'd been talking to the IRA in private for decades of course) and lo and behold, after talking to the IRA we now have peace in Northern Ireland.
"Talking to them in order to make peace" is a euphemism for "conceding to them because they are in the right".
It's not consistent for anyone who believes that Israel is an illegitimate settler-colonialist project to support its right to exist in anything like its present form.
So many Corbyn whisperers on here, they seem to know his innermost thoughts better than he knows them himself. I don't even like Corbyn, but I think he has every right to be judged on what he says and does not by his inner monologue as divined by people who have no insights into his thought processes - or indeed much else.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Why is no Arab nation caring enough about the fate of the Palestinians as to offer them refuge?
It's a disgrace.
Israel has no realistic option but to fight this war until everyone who is fighting for or otherwise supporting Hamas is dead or surrenders.
Other nations though have a choice to be able to offer refuge to innocents, instead they're just turning a blind eye.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Why is no Arab nation caring enough about the fate of the Palestinians as to offer them refuge?
It's a disgrace.
Israel has no realistic option but to fight this war until everyone who is fighting for or otherwise supporting Hamas is dead or surrenders.
Other nations though have a choice to be able to offer refuge to innocents, instead they're just turning a blind eye.
Maybe they don't want to be party to ethnic cleansing? Just a thought.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Nice of you to return with a juicy bit of libel for us.
"Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn: Why I called Hamas our friends"
Er, I can read and at no point does Corbyn say he supports the bombing of Israel. I hope for Mike's sake that Corbyn isn't litigious.
He supports Hamas and Hezbollah, two organisations that exist solely to bomb Israel and whose raison d'etre is the destruction of Israel.
Your argument is as facile as suggesting people who openly supported the IRA during the Troubles weren't supporting bombings.
Oh wait - he did that too! 🤦♂️
He doesn't support Hamas and Hezbollah, he supports talking to them in order to make peace. Just as he supported talking to the IRA to make peace. Eventually the British government agreed with him in public (they'd been talking to the IRA in private for decades of course) and lo and behold, after talking to the IRA we now have peace in Northern Ireland.
"Talking to them in order to make peace" is a euphemism for "conceding to them because they are in the right".
It's not consistent for anyone who believes that Israel is an illegitimate settler-colonialist project to support its right to exist in anything like its present form.
So many Corbyn whisperers on here, they seem to know his innermost thoughts better than he knows them himself. I don't even like Corbyn, but I think he has every right to be judged on what he says and does not by his inner monologue as divined by people who have no insights into his thought processes - or indeed much else.
Yes and what he said is that Hamas and Hezbollah are his friends and a force for social justice.
Considering they're a forcing for bombing and destroying Israel and nothing else, yes I totally agree that we should judge on his words and actions.
And that judgment is guilty.
Your attempts to justify the inexcusable are as mad as those who attempt to justify Trump.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Why is no Arab nation caring enough about the fate of the Palestinians as to offer them refuge?
It's a disgrace.
Israel has no realistic option but to fight this war until everyone who is fighting for or otherwise supporting Hamas is dead or surrenders.
Other nations though have a choice to be able to offer refuge to innocents, instead they're just turning a blind eye.
Maybe they don't want to be party to ethnic cleansing? Just a thought.
So better to let innocents die in a war than offer them refuge?
This is the obvious, inexorable endpoint for what Israel is doing. It is the only way they can permanently prevent a repeat of October 7. And if they don't achieve that goal - making October 7 unrepeatable - then the war is pointless, indeed hideously counter-productive
[Because Israel did not defend a 20 odd mile border means they CANNOT defend a 20 odd mile border.]
[Because Israel.cannot defend a 20 mile border, we will drive the Palestinians into a country with a far, far longer border with Israel.]
It isn't inexorable logic, it's execrable logic - Bibi logic. When the Israelis have time to sit and think how it all happened they are coming for that man, and his conduct in directing this war aims simply to put off that day for as long as possible.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Why is no Arab nation caring enough about the fate of the Palestinians as to offer them refuge?
It's a disgrace.
Israel has no realistic option but to fight this war until everyone who is fighting for or otherwise supporting Hamas is dead or surrenders.
Other nations though have a choice to be able to offer refuge to innocents, instead they're just turning a blind eye.
It is remarkable how LITTLE practical support the Palestinians are getting from other Arab/Muslim governments. Even the protests in Arab cities have died down, as the war grinds on
Hezbollah talks tough and does almost nothing, ditto Iran
As for the rest: Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, Iraq, UAE, the MENA in general, there is not a peep from any capital and no hint of military aid for Gaza
Hamas have perhaps miscalculated. They correctly estimated that if they launched a terrible attack on Israel then Israel would respond with brutal fury - and so it is. But my sense is they then expected the Arab world to unite in attacking Israel, and nothing like that has occurred
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Why is no Arab nation caring enough about the fate of the Palestinians as to offer them refuge?
It's a disgrace.
Israel has no realistic option but to fight this war until everyone who is fighting for or otherwise supporting Hamas is dead or surrenders.
Other nations though have a choice to be able to offer refuge to innocents, instead they're just turning a blind eye.
Maybe they don't want to be party to ethnic cleansing? Just a thought.
If, as many claim, Gaza is facing a genocide, would the same logic apply to refusing to accept Jewish refugees during the Holocaust?
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Why is no Arab nation caring enough about the fate of the Palestinians as to offer them refuge?
It's a disgrace.
Israel has no realistic option but to fight this war until everyone who is fighting for or otherwise supporting Hamas is dead or surrenders.
Other nations though have a choice to be able to offer refuge to innocents, instead they're just turning a blind eye.
Maybe they don't want to be party to ethnic cleansing? Just a thought.
So better to let innocents die in a war than offer them refuge?
How horrendous.
So according to your logic, America should offer refuge to Israelis?
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Why is no Arab nation caring enough about the fate of the Palestinians as to offer them refuge?
It's a disgrace.
Israel has no realistic option but to fight this war until everyone who is fighting for or otherwise supporting Hamas is dead or surrenders.
Other nations though have a choice to be able to offer refuge to innocents, instead they're just turning a blind eye.
It is remarkable how LITTLE practical support the Palestinians are getting from other Arab/Muslim governments. Even the protests in Arab cities have died down, as the war grinds on
Hezbollah talks tough and does almost nothing, ditto Iran
As for the rest: Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, Iraq, UAE, the MENA in general, there is not a peep from any capital and no hint of military aid for Gaza
Hamas have perhaps miscalculated. They correctly estimated that if they launched a terrible attack on Israel then Israel would respond with brutal fury - and so it is. But my sense is they then expected the Arab world to unite in attacking Israel, and nothing like that has occurred
The reality is very few people seem to give a shit about the Palestinians at all, unless they're a useful proxy to hate Jews with.
If people cared, they'd be offering refuge.
I think they doubly miscalculated, they both thought that the Arab world would respond (it has not) and that the West would restrain Israel (it has not).
Hamas acted like a drunk picking a fight with someone bigger than them, safe in the knowledge the other guys friends would hold them back. Instead the other guys friends saw what happened and are content to stand back and let the fight play out.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Yes, the sheer brutality of the Hamas attack understandably radicalised Israeli opinion - how could it not? Imagine something similar in the UK with 5,000 dead and the calls for retribution would be irresistible. I also fully accept the shift in Israeli Arab opinion - there's no future of them were Hamas to become the dominant political force in the region.
I'm sure plenty of Arabs want Hamas to be gutted but ruling groups have to keep one eye on radical populations and the undercurrents in the streets.
As with Ukraine, I'm not sure what the end looks like - a cordon sanitaire extending beyond rocket range from the Israeli border? What of the Palestinian civilians - do they go to Egypt, the Sinai or live in the ruins?
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Why is no Arab nation caring enough about the fate of the Palestinians as to offer them refuge?
It's a disgrace.
Israel has no realistic option but to fight this war until everyone who is fighting for or otherwise supporting Hamas is dead or surrenders.
Other nations though have a choice to be able to offer refuge to innocents, instead they're just turning a blind eye.
Maybe they don't want to be party to ethnic cleansing? Just a thought.
So better to let innocents die in a war than offer them refuge?
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Why is no Arab nation caring enough about the fate of the Palestinians as to offer them refuge?
It's a disgrace.
Israel has no realistic option but to fight this war until everyone who is fighting for or otherwise supporting Hamas is dead or surrenders.
Other nations though have a choice to be able to offer refuge to innocents, instead they're just turning a blind eye.
Maybe they don't want to be party to ethnic cleansing? Just a thought.
So better to let innocents die in a war than offer them refuge?
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Why is no Arab nation caring enough about the fate of the Palestinians as to offer them refuge?
It's a disgrace.
Israel has no realistic option but to fight this war until everyone who is fighting for or otherwise supporting Hamas is dead or surrenders.
Other nations though have a choice to be able to offer refuge to innocents, instead they're just turning a blind eye.
Maybe they don't want to be party to ethnic cleansing? Just a thought.
If, as many claim, Gaza is facing a genocide, would the same logic apply to refusing to accept Jewish refugees during the Holocaust?
Interestingly that was talked about today on radio. Are you referring to Lord Rothermere?
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
As usual, you mischaracterise, it is really fucking tedious and you do it all the time. I said nothing about public support for annexation etc
Here is what I said, I was explictly talking about the conduct of the war:
"the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH"
Here is the poll:
"57.5% of Israelis said the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power."
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
As usual, you mischaracterise, it is really fucking tedious and you do it all the time. I said nothing about public support for annexation etc
Here is what I said, I was explictly talking about the conduct of the war:
"the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH"
Here is the poll:
"57.5% of Israelis said the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power."
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Why is no Arab nation caring enough about the fate of the Palestinians as to offer them refuge?
It's a disgrace.
Israel has no realistic option but to fight this war until everyone who is fighting for or otherwise supporting Hamas is dead or surrenders.
Other nations though have a choice to be able to offer refuge to innocents, instead they're just turning a blind eye.
Maybe they don't want to be party to ethnic cleansing? Just a thought.
So better to let innocents die in a war than offer them refuge?
How horrendous.
Are you suggesting we take 2m refugees ?
I'm suggesting the Arab nations do, yes.
Around the world there are considerably more than 2m refugees.
If ethnic cleansing is allegedly happening in your eyes, all the more reason to offer refugee status to innocents.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
As usual, you mischaracterise, it is really fucking tedious and you do it all the time. I said nothing about public support for annexation etc
Here is what I said, I was explictly talking about the conduct of the war:
"the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH"
Here is the poll:
"57.5% of Israelis said the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power."
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Yes, the sheer brutality of the Hamas attack understandably radicalised Israeli opinion - how could it not? Imagine something similar in the UK with 5,000 dead and the calls for retribution would be irresistible. I also fully accept the shift in Israeli Arab opinion - there's no future of them were Hamas to become the dominant political force in the region.
I'm sure plenty of Arabs want Hamas to be gutted but ruling groups have to keep one eye on radical populations and the undercurrents in the streets.
As with Ukraine, I'm not sure what the end looks like - a cordon sanitaire extending beyond rocket range from the Israeli border? What of the Palestinian civilians - do they go to Egypt, the Sinai or live in the ruins?
Who knows. It is horrendous
My guess is Israel wants to render Gaza largely uninhabitable, at least for now. A no go zone for everyone, especially Hamas. So where do these poor people live? Can Egypt be persuaded with billions in aid?
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Why is no Arab nation caring enough about the fate of the Palestinians as to offer them refuge?
It's a disgrace.
Israel has no realistic option but to fight this war until everyone who is fighting for or otherwise supporting Hamas is dead or surrenders.
Other nations though have a choice to be able to offer refuge to innocents, instead they're just turning a blind eye.
Maybe they don't want to be party to ethnic cleansing? Just a thought.
So better to let innocents die in a war than offer them refuge?
How horrendous.
Maybe the Americans can ask the Israelis to stop?
Why the hell should they?
Israel should escalate and grind down Hamas until everyone who supports Hamas and fights for Hamas is dead, or surrenders unconditionally.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Why is no Arab nation caring enough about the fate of the Palestinians as to offer them refuge?
It's a disgrace.
Israel has no realistic option but to fight this war until everyone who is fighting for or otherwise supporting Hamas is dead or surrenders.
Other nations though have a choice to be able to offer refuge to innocents, instead they're just turning a blind eye.
Maybe they don't want to be party to ethnic cleansing? Just a thought.
So better to let innocents die in a war than offer them refuge?
How horrendous.
Are you suggesting we take 2m refugees ?
I'm suggesting the Arab nations do, yes.
Around the world there are considerably more than 2m refugees.
If ethnic cleansing is allegedly happening in your eyes, all the more reason to offer refugee status to innocents.
Why would Arab states cooperate in the eradication of Gaza ?
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Why is no Arab nation caring enough about the fate of the Palestinians as to offer them refuge?
It's a disgrace.
Israel has no realistic option but to fight this war until everyone who is fighting for or otherwise supporting Hamas is dead or surrenders.
Other nations though have a choice to be able to offer refuge to innocents, instead they're just turning a blind eye.
Maybe they don't want to be party to ethnic cleansing? Just a thought.
So better to let innocents die in a war than offer them refuge?
How horrendous.
Are you suggesting we take 2m refugees ?
I'm suggesting the Arab nations do, yes.
Around the world there are considerably more than 2m refugees.
If ethnic cleansing is allegedly happening in your eyes, all the more reason to offer refugee status to innocents.
Why would Arab states cooperate in the eradication of Gaza ?
Not in the eradication of Gaza, in the saving of innocent Palestinian lives.
Because that's the right thing to do when innocents are at risk of dying at war.
If the rest of the world shuts out Palestinians and denies them refuge, they're morally culpable for every innocent that dies in the war.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
As usual, you mischaracterise, it is really fucking tedious and you do it all the time. I said nothing about public support for annexation etc
Here is what I said, I was explictly talking about the conduct of the war:
"the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH"
Here is the poll:
"57.5% of Israelis said the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power."
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
What is it about 30%? According the the Economist 30% of Americans believe that Trump has been anointed by God to lead them.
Not good, God.
How do they know it is God? It could be some random with a fire proof Bluetooth speaker, a can of flamables and a handy bush…
I don't think any bush near Donald Trump would be too pleased at the thought of his handy. Given his track record of sexual assault...
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
As usual, you mischaracterise, it is really fucking tedious and you do it all the time. I said nothing about public support for annexation etc
Here is what I said, I was explictly talking about the conduct of the war:
"the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH"
Here is the poll:
"57.5% of Israelis said the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power."
No, you weren’t. … If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
I know it’s really fucking tedious when your simplistic solutions get critiqued, but man up.
If the Israeli people want the IDF to use MORE firepower in Gaza then yes, in effect, they are asking for it to be eradicated as a functioning place to live. We've all seen the pictures. That is different to "annexation" or resettlement by Israelis
And by the way I am not proposing this as a wise solution for the Israelis, I am merely pointing out this is the logic of Israeli public opinion and this is the logic of what the IDF are doing to Gaza, right now. I can't see any other endpoint that makes political and strategic sense for them
Make Gaza an almost impossible place to live and force the Gazans to move, to a more distant place where Israel can be sure there wil be no more October 7s coming over the wall
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
Yes, the sheer brutality of the Hamas attack understandably radicalised Israeli opinion - how could it not? Imagine something similar in the UK with 5,000 dead and the calls for retribution would be irresistible. I also fully accept the shift in Israeli Arab opinion - there's no future of them were Hamas to become the dominant political force in the region.
I'm sure plenty of Arabs want Hamas to be gutted but ruling groups have to keep one eye on radical populations and the undercurrents in the streets.
As with Ukraine, I'm not sure what the end looks like - a cordon sanitaire extending beyond rocket range from the Israeli border? What of the Palestinian civilians - do they go to Egypt, the Sinai or live in the ruins?
Who knows. It is horrendous
My guess is Israel wants to render Gaza largely uninhabitable, at least for now. A no go zone for everyone, especially Hamas. So where do these poor people live? Can Egypt be persuaded with billions in aid?
No, because the Egyptian government is fighting against Hamas' sister organisation the Muslim Brotherhood.
Indeed, this is one reason why Egypt is clearly quite happy (whatever their public statements) to see Gaza pounded to rubble. It sends a very clear message to Iran and their militias.
But they won't take any refugees for fear of having more of the aforesaid militias slot in alongside them.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
As usual, you mischaracterise, it is really fucking tedious and you do it all the time. I said nothing about public support for annexation etc
Here is what I said, I was explictly talking about the conduct of the war:
"the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH"
Here is the poll:
"57.5% of Israelis said the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power."
No, you weren’t. … If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
I know it’s really fucking tedious when your simplistic solutions get critiqued, but man up.
If the Israeli people want the IDF to use MORE firepower in Gaza then yes, in effect, they are asking for it to be eradicated as a functioning place to live. We've all seen the pictures. That is different to "annexation" or resettlement by Israelis
And by the way I am not proposing this as a wise solution for the Israelis, I am merely pointing out this is the logic of Israeli public opinion and this is the logic of what the IDF are doing to Gaza, right now. I can't see any other endpoint that makes political and strategic sense for them
Make Gaza an almost impossible place to live and force the Gazans to move, to a more distant place where Israel can be sure there wil be no more October 7s coming over the wall
Jehovah alone knows where that place might be
It's been their (or certainly Netanyahu's) logic for at least a decade.
What's happening now is they are going all out. Previously it was economic sanctions, now it's bombs.
And that was always the inevitable result of 7th October, which makes me wonder what the hell Hamas thought they would achieve.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
As usual, you mischaracterise, it is really fucking tedious and you do it all the time. I said nothing about public support for annexation etc
Here is what I said, I was explictly talking about the conduct of the war:
"the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH"
Here is the poll:
"57.5% of Israelis said the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power."
No, you weren’t. … If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
I know it’s really fucking tedious when your simplistic solutions get critiqued, but man up.
If the Israeli people want the IDF to use MORE firepower in Gaza then yes, in effect, they are asking for it to be eradicated as a functioning place to live. We've all seen the pictures. That is different to "annexation" or resettlement by Israelis
And by the way I am not proposing this as a wise solution for the Israelis, I am merely pointing out this is the logic of Israeli public opinion and this is the logic of what the IDF are doing to Gaza, right now. I can't see any other endpoint that makes political and strategic sense for them
Make Gaza an almost impossible place to live and force the Gazans to move, to a more distant place where Israel can be sure there wil be no more October 7s coming over the wall
Jehovah alone knows where that place might be
Gaza does not need to be an almost impossible place for Gazans to live, but it does need to be an impossible place for anyone in Hamas to live - and anyone who supports them too.
Achieving the destruction of Hamas without innocents being at risk is an absolutely impossible ask.
It’s depressing how people are becoming desensitized to what’s going on in Gaza .
Bombing people in refugee camps is met with shrugs . Israel hides behind its now worn out mantra that they need to continue until allegedly Hamas can’t commit another October 7th attack .
Clearly the IDF wouldn’t suffer such intelligence failures again so at what point will they say job done !
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
As usual, you mischaracterise, it is really fucking tedious and you do it all the time. I said nothing about public support for annexation etc
Here is what I said, I was explictly talking about the conduct of the war:
"the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH"
Here is the poll:
"57.5% of Israelis said the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power."
No, you weren’t. … If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
I know it’s really fucking tedious when your simplistic solutions get critiqued, but man up.
If the Israeli people want the IDF to use MORE firepower in Gaza then yes, in effect, they are asking for it to be eradicated as a functioning place to live. We've all seen the pictures. That is different to "annexation" or resettlement by Israelis
And by the way I am not proposing this as a wise solution for the Israelis, I am merely pointing out this is the logic of Israeli public opinion and this is the logic of what the IDF are doing to Gaza, right now. I can't see any other endpoint that makes political and strategic sense for them
Make Gaza an almost impossible place to live and force the Gazans to move, to a more distant place where Israel can be sure there wil be no more October 7s coming over the wall
Jehovah alone knows where that place might be
It's been their (or certainly Netanyahu's) logic for at least a decade.
What's happening now is they are going all out. Previously it was economic sanctions, now it's bombs.
And that was always the inevitable result of 7th October, which makes me wonder what the hell Hamas thought they would achieve.
Yes, I agree
What we are seeing is a united, galvanised and cruelly radicalised Israel now determined to settle the Palestinian problem once and for all. And it will not go well for the poor Palestinians
Who is going to stop them? I guess ultimately America could stop all aid and cease supplying weapons, but maybe Israel has stockpiled enough anyway. I also wonder if Biden has the bollocks to finally say No to Jerusalem
It’s depressing how people are becoming desensitized to what’s going on in Gaza .
Bombing people in refugee camps is met with shrugs . Israel hides behind its now worn out mantra that they need to continue until allegedly Hamas can’t commit another October 7th attack .
Clearly the IDF wouldn’t suffer such intelligence failures again so at what point will they say job done !
Don't be absurd, refugee camps are normally located outside war zones, not inside them.
Absolutely anywhere in Gaza should be a fair target for IDF forces if Hamas targets are there. That includes so-called "refugee camps".
They should say job done when everyone in Hamas is dead.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
As usual, you mischaracterise, it is really fucking tedious and you do it all the time. I said nothing about public support for annexation etc
Here is what I said, I was explictly talking about the conduct of the war:
"the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH"
Here is the poll:
"57.5% of Israelis said the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power."
Maybe the government could help alleviate food poverty *and* improve the nation's health by distributing free healthy food to anyone who wants it? One collection per person per week allowed.
Free stuff is expensive, creates a sense of entitlement on those who receive it (for which they are not grateful and for whom it's never enough) and doesn't do much to transform outcomes.
I'd maybe look more seriously at subsidising healthy food, and teaching home economics/simple cooking to all, but I think a price must be paid for it to be valued and appreciated.
I think it would be far better to look at ways that we can make our national staples (bread, milk, spreading fat, pasta, potatoes) healthier. That could have a dramatic effect on levels of overall health, and benefit the poor disproportionately, as these 'basics' will feature nore heavily in their diets.
FPT. Minimum levels of vitamin and mineral fortification of several processed staple foods (particularly bread) have been a feature of regulation for decades. Not sure how you would realistically do that with things like potatoes.
We could help to ensure people can afford healthy foods like meats so they aren't forced to eat crappy carbs like potatoes in the first place.
Also drop any failed 20th century "food pyramids" that put crappy carbs as foods to eat a lot of.
I have meat with every meal, but potatoes only rarely, much, much healthier than the other way around but also a lot more expensive - not everyone can afford to do the same and too many still recommend the opposite.
Potatoes are loads healthier if you turn them into chips, especially if done so with beef fat.
Potatoes aren't too horrendous - bread and pasta are imo worse carbs. I agree that all should have access to meat, and good meat, but we have to begin somewhere.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
As usual, you mischaracterise, it is really fucking tedious and you do it all the time. I said nothing about public support for annexation etc
Here is what I said, I was explictly talking about the conduct of the war:
"the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH"
Here is the poll:
"57.5% of Israelis said the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power."
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
As usual, you mischaracterise, it is really fucking tedious and you do it all the time. I said nothing about public support for annexation etc
Here is what I said, I was explictly talking about the conduct of the war:
"the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH"
Here is the poll:
"57.5% of Israelis said the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power."
No, you weren’t. … If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
I know it’s really fucking tedious when your simplistic solutions get critiqued, but man up.
If the Israeli people want the IDF to use MORE firepower in Gaza then yes, in effect, they are asking for it to be eradicated as a functioning place to live. We've all seen the pictures. That is different to "annexation" or resettlement by Israelis
And by the way I am not proposing this as a wise solution for the Israelis, I am merely pointing out this is the logic of Israeli public opinion and this is the logic of what the IDF are doing to Gaza, right now. I can't see any other endpoint that makes political and strategic sense for them
Make Gaza an almost impossible place to live and force the Gazans to move, to a more distant place where Israel can be sure there wil be no more October 7s coming over the wall
Jehovah alone knows where that place might be
It's been their (or certainly Netanyahu's) logic for at least a decade.
What's happening now is they are going all out. Previously it was economic sanctions, now it's bombs.
And that was always the inevitable result of 7th October, which makes me wonder what the hell Hamas thought they would achieve.
Yes, I agree
What we are seeing is a united, galvanised and cruelly radicalised Israel now determined to settle the Palestinian problem once and for all. And it will not go well for the poor Palestinians
Who is going to stop them? I guess ultimately America could stop all aid and cease supplying weapons, but maybe Israel has stockpiled enough anyway. I also wonder if Biden has the bollocks to finally say No to Jerusalem
Yes, good to see Israel valiantly defending itself by bombing refugee camps and hospitals, killing 21,110 people and causing nearly 2 million homeless, and depriving them of food, water, power and Comms!
A lot of people on here need apparently need reminding that terror groups in Gaza have fired over twelve thousand rockets at Israeli cities since October 7. That comes on top of thousands more rocket attacks over the past twenty years, with a sharp increase coming immediately after Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005.
There is no reasonable solution to the current conflict that includes those attacks continuing. It is absolutely absurd that Israel has tolerated it for this long.
A lot of people on here need apparently need reminding that terror groups in Gaza have fired over twelve thousand rockets at Israeli cities since October 7. That comes on top of thousands more rocket attacks over the past twenty years, with a sharp increase coming immediately after Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005.
There is no reasonable solution to the current conflict that includes those attacks continuing. It is absolutely absurd that Israel has tolerated it for this long.
It starts in a dreadful way: “trump’s packing of the Supreme Court”.
No: justices were appointed according to the rules. Trump was lucky he got to appoint so many. If, as counterfactual, it had been a democratic president and 3 reliably progressive justices appointed the court wouldn’t have been “packed” it would have been “at the forefront of forging the modern America”.
It’s depressing how people are becoming desensitized to what’s going on in Gaza .
Bombing people in refugee camps is met with shrugs . Israel hides behind its now worn out mantra that they need to continue until allegedly Hamas can’t commit another October 7th attack .
Clearly the IDF wouldn’t suffer such intelligence failures again so at what point will they say job done !
Don't be absurd, refugee camps are normally located outside war zones, not inside them.
Absolutely anywhere in Gaza should be a fair target for IDF forces if Hamas targets are there. That includes so-called "refugee camps".
They should say job done when everyone in Hamas is dead.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
As usual, you mischaracterise, it is really fucking tedious and you do it all the time. I said nothing about public support for annexation etc
Here is what I said, I was explictly talking about the conduct of the war:
"the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH"
Here is the poll:
"57.5% of Israelis said the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power."
No, you weren’t. … If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
I know it’s really fucking tedious when your simplistic solutions get critiqued, but man up.
If the Israeli people want the IDF to use MORE firepower in Gaza then yes, in effect, they are asking for it to be eradicated as a functioning place to live. We've all seen the pictures. That is different to "annexation" or resettlement by Israelis
And by the way I am not proposing this as a wise solution for the Israelis, I am merely pointing out this is the logic of Israeli public opinion and this is the logic of what the IDF are doing to Gaza, right now. I can't see any other endpoint that makes political and strategic sense for them
Make Gaza an almost impossible place to live and force the Gazans to move, to a more distant place where Israel can be sure there wil be no more October 7s coming over the wall
Jehovah alone knows where that place might be
It's been their (or certainly Netanyahu's) logic for at least a decade.
What's happening now is they are going all out. Previously it was economic sanctions, now it's bombs.
And that was always the inevitable result of 7th October, which makes me wonder what the hell Hamas thought they would achieve.
Yes, I agree
What we are seeing is a united, galvanised and cruelly radicalised Israel now determined to settle the Palestinian problem once and for all. And it will not go well for the poor Palestinians
Who is going to stop them? I guess ultimately America could stop all aid and cease supplying weapons, but maybe Israel has stockpiled enough anyway. I also wonder if Biden has the bollocks to finally say No to Jerusalem
Yes, good to see Israel valiantly defending itself by bombing refugee camps and hospitals, killing 21,110 people and causing nearly 2 million homeless, and depriving them of food, water, power and Comms!
I am absolutely NOT cheering on the IDF. The images are horrific
I am trying to work out if the Israelis have a strategy beyond blind fury and brutal revenge, and I believe they do. Gaza will cease to exist as we have known it
It’s depressing how people are becoming desensitized to what’s going on in Gaza .
Bombing people in refugee camps is met with shrugs . Israel hides behind its now worn out mantra that they need to continue until allegedly Hamas can’t commit another October 7th attack .
Clearly the IDF wouldn’t suffer such intelligence failures again so at what point will they say job done !
Don't be absurd, refugee camps are normally located outside war zones, not inside them.
Absolutely anywhere in Gaza should be a fair target for IDF forces if Hamas targets are there. That includes so-called "refugee camps".
They should say job done when everyone in Hamas is dead.
Your ignorance of the region is incredible.
Its not ignorance, its the truth, just an uncomfortable one for you.
Many of these so-called "refugee camps" have people who were not only born in the "camp" but their parents were born there, and their grandparents were born there too.
At what point does something cease to be a "camp" and become a town or city or other place of residence instead?
The only true, safe refuge would be outside the warzone.
It starts in a dreadful way: “trump’s packing of the Supreme Court”.
No: justices were appointed according to the rules. Trump was lucky he got to appoint so many. If, as counterfactual, it had been a democratic president and 3 reliably progressive justices appointed the court wouldn’t have been “packed” it would have been “at the forefront of forging the modern America”.
It wasn't luck. Republicans in the Senate refused to ratify Obama's final pick (Merrick Garland, March 2016) while hurriedly pushing through Trump's final nominee (Amy Coney Barrett, September 2020).
In both cases their reasoning was 'there's an election coming.'
For the first, they said, 'let's delay it for the new President to decide because it's less than a year until you leave.'
For the second, 'let's ratify it now in case there's a new President elected in six weeks.'
Admittedly, you could point out neither was directly to do with Trump. But the Supreme Court has been being rigged for a very long time (since Franklin D Roosevelt, indeed) and recent events have left it 'packed' with a Republican majority through quite shameless procedural jiggery pokery.
It starts in a dreadful way: “trump’s packing of the Supreme Court”.
No: justices were appointed according to the rules. Trump was lucky he got to appoint so many. If, as counterfactual, it had been a democratic president and 3 reliably progressive justices appointed the court wouldn’t have been “packed” it would have been “at the forefront of forging the modern America”.
Yes, the article is utter bollocks, and also about 5000 words too long
SCOTUS will throw out the Colorado decision, you can't have US presidential candidates being excluded from the national elections by partisan courts in state capitals on the grounds that the judges don't approve of his face. What is to stop a Republican supreme court in Tennessee ruling out Biden coz of all the dodgy photos of him with his 15 year old babysitter?
Trump has not been convicted by a jury of insurrection. All else is fluff
Does anyone know which election saw the highest turnover of MPs? 1997 and 2010 are probably candidates.
1931 surely?
1945 might have been higher. Labour gained 239 seats on 1935. In 1931 the Conservatives gained 210.
Though in 1945 only Labour gained seats net, in 1931 multiple parties did including National Liberal and National Labour.
According to Wiki 279 seats were gained by various parties in 1945.
In 1931 the Tories gained 210, National Liberal gained 35, National Labour gained 13. In total 289 seats were gained by different parties.
No they didn't. Most of those 48 were already MPs who had split from their former parties. For example, they included Ramsay Macdonald, JH Thomas and John Simon . They shouldn't be counted among the figures of turnover of MPs.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
As usual, you mischaracterise, it is really fucking tedious and you do it all the time. I said nothing about public support for annexation etc
Here is what I said, I was explictly talking about the conduct of the war:
"the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH"
Here is the poll:
"57.5% of Israelis said the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power."
No, you weren’t. … If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
I know it’s really fucking tedious when your simplistic solutions get critiqued, but man up.
If the Israeli people want the IDF to use MORE firepower in Gaza then yes, in effect, they are asking for it to be eradicated as a functioning place to live. We've all seen the pictures. That is different to "annexation" or resettlement by Israelis
And by the way I am not proposing this as a wise solution for the Israelis, I am merely pointing out this is the logic of Israeli public opinion and this is the logic of what the IDF are doing to Gaza, right now. I can't see any other endpoint that makes political and strategic sense for them
Make Gaza an almost impossible place to live and force the Gazans to move, to a more distant place where Israel can be sure there wil be no more October 7s coming over the wall
Jehovah alone knows where that place might be
It's been their (or certainly Netanyahu's) logic for at least a decade.
What's happening now is they are going all out. Previously it was economic sanctions, now it's bombs.
And that was always the inevitable result of 7th October, which makes me wonder what the hell Hamas thought they would achieve.
Yes, I agree
What we are seeing is a united, galvanised and cruelly radicalised Israel now determined to settle the Palestinian problem once and for all. And it will not go well for the poor Palestinians
Who is going to stop them? I guess ultimately America could stop all aid and cease supplying weapons, but maybe Israel has stockpiled enough anyway. I also wonder if Biden has the bollocks to finally say No to Jerusalem
Yes, good to see Israel valiantly defending itself by bombing refugee camps and hospitals, killing 21,110 people and causing nearly 2 million homeless, and depriving them of food, water, power and Comms!
I am absolutely NOT cheering on the IDF. The images are horrific
I am trying to work out if the Israelis have a strategy beyond blind fury and brutal revenge, and I believe they do. Gaza will cease to exist as we have known it
I have a bad feeling you'll be right. This is like Lidice on steroids.
It starts in a dreadful way: “trump’s packing of the Supreme Court”.
No: justices were appointed according to the rules. Trump was lucky he got to appoint so many. If, as counterfactual, it had been a democratic president and 3 reliably progressive justices appointed the court wouldn’t have been “packed” it would have been “at the forefront of forging the modern America”.
It wasn't luck. Republicans in the Senate refused to ratify Obama's final pick (Merrick Garland, March 2016) while hurriedly pushing through Trump's final nominee (Amy Coney Barrett, September 2020).
In both cases their reasoning was 'there's an election coming.'
For the first, they said, 'let's delay it for the new President to decide because it's less than a year until you leave.'
For the second, 'let's ratify it now in case there's a new President elected in six weeks.'
Admittedly, you could point out neither was directly to do with Trump. But the Supreme Court has been being rigged for a very long time (since Franklin D Roosevelt, indeed) and recent events have left it 'packed' with a Republican majority through quite shameless procedural jiggery pokery.
That's them rules.
Now, I think the sidelining of Garland was egregious, but the Senate is given that power.
Does anyone know which election saw the highest turnover of MPs? 1997 and 2010 are probably candidates.
1931 surely?
1945 might have been higher. Labour gained 239 seats on 1935. In 1931 the Conservatives gained 210.
Though in 1945 only Labour gained seats net, in 1931 multiple parties did including National Liberal and National Labour.
According to Wiki 279 seats were gained by various parties in 1945.
In 1931 the Tories gained 210, National Liberal gained 35, National Labour gained 13. In total 289 seats were gained by different parties.
No they didn't. Most of those 48 were already MPs who had split from their former parties. For example, they included Ramsay Macdonald, JH Thomas and John Simon . They shouldn't be counted among the figures of turnover of MPs.
Wikipedia's graphic on this is very unhelpful.
If memory serves, the only actual *gains* by a party other than the Conservatives were eight Liberal seats. Whether they were officially Nationals or not I can't recall, and it's worth remembering that the 'Liberal National party' didn't really become a thing until about 1937. Until then, they were Liberal MPs who took the National whip (as did, until 1932, the official Liberal party under Samuel, and many of them were not opposed by Conservatives - it was only Lloyd George's family group that stayed in opposition). Indeed, one of the Liberal Nationals, Clement Davies, later rejoined the Liberal party and led it for eleven years, while one of Lloyd George's own grouping eventually became a Cabinet Minister under Churchill in 1951 describing himself as 'a Liberal, supporting the National Government.'
It would be close between 1945 and 1931 on that basis.
As my father asked on Christmas Day over the turkey, what do Gazans do for a living? How does their economy work? I suspect the whole place is a refugee camp in reality, and now it seems Israel is going to close it down. Is their end game Gaza uninhabitable and all remaining Gazans forced to other refugee camps? It’s beginning to look like it.
I have huge sympathy for Israel. What we we do if a similar terrorist act ( yes BBC, Hamas are terrorists) were carried out on U.K. soil? But all those expressing an opinion around our table now thought Israel had gone too far.
It starts in a dreadful way: “trump’s packing of the Supreme Court”.
No: justices were appointed according to the rules. Trump was lucky he got to appoint so many. If, as counterfactual, it had been a democratic president and 3 reliably progressive justices appointed the court wouldn’t have been “packed” it would have been “at the forefront of forging the modern America”.
It wasn't luck. Republicans in the Senate refused to ratify Obama's final pick (Merrick Garland, March 2016) while hurriedly pushing through Trump's final nominee (Amy Coney Barrett, September 2020).
In both cases their reasoning was 'there's an election coming.'
For the first, they said, 'let's delay it for the new President to decide because it's less than a year until you leave.'
For the second, 'let's ratify it now in case there's a new President elected in six weeks.'
Admittedly, you could point out neither was directly to do with Trump. But the Supreme Court has been being rigged for a very long time (since Franklin D Roosevelt, indeed) and recent events have left it 'packed' with a Republican majority through quite shameless procedural jiggery pokery.
That's them rules.
Now, I think the sidelining of Garland was egregious, but the Senate is given that power.
Agreed, but the suggestion was the Republicans weren't packing the court to suit themselves. While Garland's case shows they were.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Apparently only 30% of Americans currently support Bidens policy of continuing the bombing of Gaza. According to Radio 4 this is now affecting his re election chances. Amongst young people the numbers are even worse.
The strange thing is that I personally support the right of Palestinians to chuck a few missiles at Israeli soldiers in Israel, in other words: I support their right to "bomb Israel"
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Yes and we are all still dancing to Hamas's tune as we have since October 7th. If you accept they care neither for the lives of their own people nor for the lives of the Palestinians in Gaza, the Israeli Defence Force raising the place to the ground only radicalises a new generation of martyrs to prolong the cause as well as silencing moderate Arab opinion and polarising views which, as a terrorist group, works to Hamas's advantage.
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
I tend to disagree, I think Israel is now determined on some terminal "solution", way beyond anything it has done before, and they are utterly uncaring of worldwide opinion
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
As usual, you mischaracterise, it is really fucking tedious and you do it all the time. I said nothing about public support for annexation etc
Here is what I said, I was explictly talking about the conduct of the war:
"the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH"
Here is the poll:
"57.5% of Israelis said the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power."
No, you weren’t. … If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
I know it’s really fucking tedious when your simplistic solutions get critiqued, but man up.
If the Israeli people want the IDF to use MORE firepower in Gaza then yes, in effect, they are asking for it to be eradicated as a functioning place to live. We've all seen the pictures. That is different to "annexation" or resettlement by Israelis
And by the way I am not proposing this as a wise solution for the Israelis, I am merely pointing out this is the logic of Israeli public opinion and this is the logic of what the IDF are doing to Gaza, right now. I can't see any other endpoint that makes political and strategic sense for them
Make Gaza an almost impossible place to live and force the Gazans to move, to a more distant place where Israel can be sure there wil be no more October 7s coming over the wall
Jehovah alone knows where that place might be
It's been their (or certainly Netanyahu's) logic for at least a decade.
What's happening now is they are going all out. Previously it was economic sanctions, now it's bombs.
And that was always the inevitable result of 7th October, which makes me wonder what the hell Hamas thought they would achieve.
Yes, I agree
What we are seeing is a united, galvanised and cruelly radicalised Israel now determined to settle the Palestinian problem once and for all. And it will not go well for the poor Palestinians
Who is going to stop them? I guess ultimately America could stop all aid and cease supplying weapons, but maybe Israel has stockpiled enough anyway. I also wonder if Biden has the bollocks to finally say No to Jerusalem
Yes, good to see Israel valiantly defending itself by bombing refugee camps and hospitals, killing 21,110 people and causing nearly 2 million homeless, and depriving them of food, water, power and Comms!
What sort of refugee camp is the birthplace of virtually all of its inhabitants?
As my father asked on Christmas Day over the turkey, what do Gazans do for a living? How does their economy work? I suspect the whole place is a refugee camp in reality, and now it seems Israel is going to close it down. Is their end game Gaza uninhabitable and all remaining Gazans forced to other refugee camps? It’s beginning to look like it.
I have huge sympathy for Israel. What we we do if a similar terrorist act ( yes BBC, Hamas are terrorists) were carried out on U.K. soil? But all those expressing an opinion around our table now thought Israel had gone too far.
Well, with respect, we didn't carpet bomb West Belfast or Derry in the wake of Warrenpoint/Lord Mountbatten, or Enniskillen, or Omagh.
As my father asked on Christmas Day over the turkey, what do Gazans do for a living? How does their economy work? I suspect the whole place is a refugee camp in reality, and now it seems Israel is going to close it down. Is their end game Gaza uninhabitable and all remaining Gazans forced to other refugee camps? It’s beginning to look like it.
I have huge sympathy for Israel. What we we do if a similar terrorist act ( yes BBC, Hamas are terrorists) were carried out on U.K. soil? But all those expressing an opinion around our table now thought Israel had gone too far.
Well, with respect, we didn't carpet bomb West Belfast or Derry in the wake of Warrenpoint/Lord Mountbatten, or Enniskillen, or Omagh.
To be fair, I think if Omagh had been on the scale of 7th October and carried out by large organised gangs living just across the Irish border I think at the very least some of our ballistic missiles would have suffered mysterious malfunctions that wiped out the aforesaid gangs and everyone else within 20 miles.
As my father asked on Christmas Day over the turkey, what do Gazans do for a living? How does their economy work? I suspect the whole place is a refugee camp in reality, and now it seems Israel is going to close it down. Is their end game Gaza uninhabitable and all remaining Gazans forced to other refugee camps? It’s beginning to look like it.
I have huge sympathy for Israel. What we we do if a similar terrorist act ( yes BBC, Hamas are terrorists) were carried out on U.K. soil? But all those expressing an opinion around our table now thought Israel had gone too far.
Well, with respect, we didn't carpet bomb West Belfast or Derry in the wake of Warrenpoint/Lord Mountbatten, or Enniskillen, or Omagh.
No we didn’t, but the scale and sheer nastiness of what Hamas did is a factor.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Nice of you to return with a juicy bit of libel for us.
"Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn: Why I called Hamas our friends"
Er, I can read and at no point does Corbyn say he supports the bombing of Israel. I hope for Mike's sake that Corbyn isn't litigious.
Corbyn has been litigious on other subjects (see Czech spy allegation). He isn't on this stuff because he'd lose. Badly.
It's only his last few deluded fanboys who believe his ludicrous explanations of why he has always been terribly keen on meeting extremists of the worst kind from one side and being sympathetic to their demands. While unfailingly condemning even those in the mainstream of the other.
He's no man of peace. Never has been. He's someone who unfailingly wants whichever 'side' Western nations are on, to lose, so will demand peace from then - and defining the other side's violence as legitimate resistance that they hold no blame for, or ignoring it altogether. It's a truly cancerous attitude one is thankful has been exorcised from Labour.
As my father asked on Christmas Day over the turkey, what do Gazans do for a living? How does their economy work? I suspect the whole place is a refugee camp in reality, and now it seems Israel is going to close it down. Is their end game Gaza uninhabitable and all remaining Gazans forced to other refugee camps? It’s beginning to look like it.
I have huge sympathy for Israel. What we we do if a similar terrorist act ( yes BBC, Hamas are terrorists) were carried out on U.K. soil? But all those expressing an opinion around our table now thought Israel had gone too far.
Well, with respect, we didn't carpet bomb West Belfast or Derry in the wake of Warrenpoint/Lord Mountbatten, or Enniskillen, or Omagh.
No we didn’t, but the scale and sheer nastiness of what Hamas did is a factor.
Since 7th October, Israel has killed 15 times, yes FIFTEEN times, as many people as Hamas did. 21,110 divided by 1,387 = 15.22
As my father asked on Christmas Day over the turkey, what do Gazans do for a living? How does their economy work? I suspect the whole place is a refugee camp in reality, and now it seems Israel is going to close it down. Is their end game Gaza uninhabitable and all remaining Gazans forced to other refugee camps? It’s beginning to look like it.
I have huge sympathy for Israel. What we we do if a similar terrorist act ( yes BBC, Hamas are terrorists) were carried out on U.K. soil? But all those expressing an opinion around our table now thought Israel had gone too far.
My extended family had the same Xmas discussion. The conclusion was “fuck it, let them fight it out, once and for all”
There wasn’t any taking of sides. More a general weariness with everything that comes from the Middle East, and an urgent desire for it all to go away, whatever it takes
As my father asked on Christmas Day over the turkey, what do Gazans do for a living? How does their economy work? I suspect the whole place is a refugee camp in reality, and now it seems Israel is going to close it down. Is their end game Gaza uninhabitable and all remaining Gazans forced to other refugee camps? It’s beginning to look like it.
I have huge sympathy for Israel. What we we do if a similar terrorist act ( yes BBC, Hamas are terrorists) were carried out on U.K. soil? But all those expressing an opinion around our table now thought Israel had gone too far.
Well, with respect, we didn't carpet bomb West Belfast or Derry in the wake of Warrenpoint/Lord Mountbatten, or Enniskillen, or Omagh.
No we didn’t, but the scale and sheer nastiness of what Hamas did is a factor.
Since 7th October, Israel has killed 15 times, yes FIFTEEN times, as many people as Hamas did. 21,110 divided by 1,387 = 15.22
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Nice of you to return with a juicy bit of libel for us.
"Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn: Why I called Hamas our friends"
Er, I can read and at no point does Corbyn say he supports the bombing of Israel. I hope for Mike's sake that Corbyn isn't litigious.
He supports Hamas and Hezbollah, two organisations that exist solely to bomb Israel and whose raison d'etre is the destruction of Israel.
Your argument is as facile as suggesting people who openly supported the IRA during the Troubles weren't supporting bombings.
Oh wait - he did that too! 🤦♂️
He doesn't support Hamas and Hezbollah, he supports talking to them in order to make peace. Just as he supported talking to the IRA to make peace. Eventually the British government agreed with him in public (they'd been talking to the IRA in private for decades of course) and lo and behold, after talking to the IRA we now have peace in Northern Ireland.
It’s depressing how people are becoming desensitized to what’s going on in Gaza .
Bombing people in refugee camps is met with shrugs . Israel hides behind its now worn out mantra that they need to continue until allegedly Hamas can’t commit another October 7th attack .
Clearly the IDF wouldn’t suffer such intelligence failures again so at what point will they say job done !
Don't be absurd, refugee camps are normally located outside war zones, not inside them.
Absolutely anywhere in Gaza should be a fair target for IDF forces if Hamas targets are there. That includes so-called "refugee camps".
They should say job done when everyone in Hamas is dead.
Your ignorance of the region is incredible.
Its not ignorance, its the truth, just an uncomfortable one for you.
Many of these so-called "refugee camps" have people who were not only born in the "camp" but their parents were born there, and their grandparents were born there too.
At what point does something cease to be a "camp" and become a town or city or other place of residence instead?
The only true, safe refuge would be outside the warzone.
It could just be that your strident binary style doesn't suit this topic but for me your every post on it reeks of you thinking Palestinians are inferior beings compared to Israelis. There's no other obvious explanation for the sort of stuff you come out with.
As my father asked on Christmas Day over the turkey, what do Gazans do for a living? How does their economy work? I suspect the whole place is a refugee camp in reality, and now it seems Israel is going to close it down. Is their end game Gaza uninhabitable and all remaining Gazans forced to other refugee camps? It’s beginning to look like it.
I have huge sympathy for Israel. What we we do if a similar terrorist act ( yes BBC, Hamas are terrorists) were carried out on U.K. soil? But all those expressing an opinion around our table now thought Israel had gone too far.
Well, with respect, we didn't carpet bomb West Belfast or Derry in the wake of Warrenpoint/Lord Mountbatten, or Enniskillen, or Omagh.
No we didn’t, but the scale and sheer nastiness of what Hamas did is a factor.
Since 7th October, Israel has killed 15 times, yes FIFTEEN times, as many people as Hamas did. 21,110 divided by 1,387 = 15.22
Should Israel have waited for 20 more Hamas raids before retaliating, to make the numbers more equal when they destroyed Hamas?
As my father asked on Christmas Day over the turkey, what do Gazans do for a living? How does their economy work? I suspect the whole place is a refugee camp in reality, and now it seems Israel is going to close it down. Is their end game Gaza uninhabitable and all remaining Gazans forced to other refugee camps? It’s beginning to look like it.
I have huge sympathy for Israel. What we we do if a similar terrorist act ( yes BBC, Hamas are terrorists) were carried out on U.K. soil? But all those expressing an opinion around our table now thought Israel had gone too far.
Well, with respect, we didn't carpet bomb West Belfast or Derry in the wake of Warrenpoint/Lord Mountbatten, or Enniskillen, or Omagh.
No we didn’t, but the scale and sheer nastiness of what Hamas did is a factor.
Since 7th October, Israel has killed 15 times, yes FIFTEEN times, as many people as Hamas did. 21,110 divided by 1,387 = 15.22
Who do you blame for those deaths Sunil? What should Israel have done? What is happening is horrendous and I have huge sympathy for all innocents affected by this. At some point the conundrum of a Israel vs people who think Israel shouldn’t exist needs to be resolved. It’s not easy to see how.
It starts in a dreadful way: “trump’s packing of the Supreme Court”.
No: justices were appointed according to the rules. Trump was lucky he got to appoint so many. If, as counterfactual, it had been a democratic president and 3 reliably progressive justices appointed the court wouldn’t have been “packed” it would have been “at the forefront of forging the modern America”.
It wasn't luck. Republicans in the Senate refused to ratify Obama's final pick (Merrick Garland, March 2016) while hurriedly pushing through Trump's final nominee (Amy Coney Barrett, September 2020).
In both cases their reasoning was 'there's an election coming.'
For the first, they said, 'let's delay it for the new President to decide because it's less than a year until you leave.'
For the second, 'let's ratify it now in case there's a new President elected in six weeks.'
Admittedly, you could point out neither was directly to do with Trump. But the Supreme Court has been being rigged for a very long time (since Franklin D Roosevelt, indeed) and recent events have left it 'packed' with a Republican majority through quite shameless procedural jiggery pokery.
That's them rules.
Now, I think the sidelining of Garland was egregious, but the Senate is given that power.
So equally the rules allow the Democrats to expand the court to 15 Justices when they next have the trifecta.
As my father asked on Christmas Day over the turkey, what do Gazans do for a living? How does their economy work? I suspect the whole place is a refugee camp in reality, and now it seems Israel is going to close it down. Is their end game Gaza uninhabitable and all remaining Gazans forced to other refugee camps? It’s beginning to look like it.
I have huge sympathy for Israel. What we we do if a similar terrorist act ( yes BBC, Hamas are terrorists) were carried out on U.K. soil? But all those expressing an opinion around our table now thought Israel had gone too far.
Well, with respect, we didn't carpet bomb West Belfast or Derry in the wake of Warrenpoint/Lord Mountbatten, or Enniskillen, or Omagh.
To be fair, I think if Omagh had been on the scale of 7th October and carried out by large organised gangs living just across the Irish border I think at the very least some of our ballistic missiles would have suffered mysterious malfunctions that wiped out the aforesaid gangs and everyone else within 20 miles.
Yes. The equivalent of October 7 for us would be 10,000 UK citizens raped shot burned and tortured to death, thousands more injured and a couple of thousand kidnapped (and raped and tortured) - and with the IRA promising to do it again and again to us, whenever they get the chance, and that looking very possible
As my father asked on Christmas Day over the turkey, what do Gazans do for a living? How does their economy work? I suspect the whole place is a refugee camp in reality, and now it seems Israel is going to close it down. Is their end game Gaza uninhabitable and all remaining Gazans forced to other refugee camps? It’s beginning to look like it.
I have huge sympathy for Israel. What we we do if a similar terrorist act ( yes BBC, Hamas are terrorists) were carried out on U.K. soil? But all those expressing an opinion around our table now thought Israel had gone too far.
Well, with respect, we didn't carpet bomb West Belfast or Derry in the wake of Warrenpoint/Lord Mountbatten, or Enniskillen, or Omagh.
To be fair, I think if Omagh had been on the scale of 7th October and carried out by large organised gangs living just across the Irish border I think at the very least some of our ballistic missiles would have suffered mysterious malfunctions that wiped out the aforesaid gangs and everyone else within 20 miles.
Yes. The equivalent of October 7 for us would be 10,000 UK citizens raped shot burned and tortured to death, thousands more injured and a couple of thousand kidnapped (and raped and tortured) - and with the IRA promising to do it again and again to us, whenever they get the chance, and that looking very possible
It starts in a dreadful way: “trump’s packing of the Supreme Court”.
No: justices were appointed according to the rules. Trump was lucky he got to appoint so many. If, as counterfactual, it had been a democratic president and 3 reliably progressive justices appointed the court wouldn’t have been “packed” it would have been “at the forefront of forging the modern America”.
It wasn't luck. Republicans in the Senate refused to ratify Obama's final pick (Merrick Garland, March 2016) while hurriedly pushing through Trump's final nominee (Amy Coney Barrett, September 2020).
In both cases their reasoning was 'there's an election coming.'
For the first, they said, 'let's delay it for the new President to decide because it's less than a year until you leave.'
For the second, 'let's ratify it now in case there's a new President elected in six weeks.'
Admittedly, you could point out neither was directly to do with Trump. But the Supreme Court has been being rigged for a very long time (since Franklin D Roosevelt, indeed) and recent events have left it 'packed' with a Republican majority through quite shameless procedural jiggery pokery.
That's them rules.
Now, I think the sidelining of Garland was egregious, but the Senate is given that power.
So equally the rules allow the Democrats to expand the court to 15 Justices when they next have the trifecta.
They don't need the trifecta. Senate and Presidency are enough. And there is no actual set number of justices for the Supreme Court.
But - it would be a bad idea. It would just mean the Republicans would then appoint x number to restock the court in their own favour when they next held the Presidency and the Senate. And so on ad infinitum.
Franklin D. Roosevelt tried it in the 1930s and the extent of the opposition caused him to back down. (Admittedly, the mere idea also stopped the Supreme Court from behaving like dicks.)
As my father asked on Christmas Day over the turkey, what do Gazans do for a living? How does their economy work? I suspect the whole place is a refugee camp in reality, and now it seems Israel is going to close it down. Is their end game Gaza uninhabitable and all remaining Gazans forced to other refugee camps? It’s beginning to look like it.
I have huge sympathy for Israel. What we we do if a similar terrorist act ( yes BBC, Hamas are terrorists) were carried out on U.K. soil? But all those expressing an opinion around our table now thought Israel had gone too far.
Well, with respect, we didn't carpet bomb West Belfast or Derry in the wake of Warrenpoint/Lord Mountbatten, or Enniskillen, or Omagh.
No we didn’t, but the scale and sheer nastiness of what Hamas did is a factor.
Since 7th October, Israel has killed 15 times, yes FIFTEEN times, as many people as Hamas did. 21,110 divided by 1,387 = 15.22
What sort of cockwomble goes to four significant figures when dividing their terrorist tally?
Freer is an obsessive supporter of Israel and all it's work. However much graffitti is painted on his office walls I bet actuarilly he's a 1000 times safer in his Finchley office than any single child in Gaza whom he wants Israel to continue bombing.
I presume you would support the firebombing of a Pro Palestine MPs office?
Or is violence in politics only for some people?
There are no pro Palestinian MP's who support the bombing of Israel.
You seem to be unaware of the Life and Works of Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Nice of you to return with a juicy bit of libel for us.
"Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn: Why I called Hamas our friends"
Er, I can read and at no point does Corbyn say he supports the bombing of Israel. I hope for Mike's sake that Corbyn isn't litigious.
He supports Hamas and Hezbollah, two organisations that exist solely to bomb Israel and whose raison d'etre is the destruction of Israel.
Your argument is as facile as suggesting people who openly supported the IRA during the Troubles weren't supporting bombings.
Oh wait - he did that too! 🤦♂️
He doesn't support Hamas and Hezbollah, he supports talking to them in order to make peace. Just as he supported talking to the IRA to make peace. Eventually the British government agreed with him in public (they'd been talking to the IRA in private for decades of course) and lo and behold, after talking to the IRA we now have peace in Northern Ireland.
Comments
What does Israel expect if it continually smashes Gaza into pieces? No retaliation???
So if an MP said and says the same, fair enough, I would not castigate them for it. The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves - as does Israel
What happened on October 7 was, however, far far beyond normal war between combatants, it was closer to a medieval pogrom with 21st century social media footage, It was an attempt to torture and kill every Jew they could find - from babies to grannies - with deliberate and maximum cruelty
Israel will now - as I predicted from the off - probably render Gaza uninhabitable, thus "solving the problem" by changing the facts on the ground
Of course he believes they have the right to do that. I personally believe they have the right to do that. The Gazans are being brutally attacked, are they meant to just sit there and do nothing, as they all die?
So any sane person "supports the bombing of Israel" inasmuch as they sadly support the normal rules of war
Your argument is as facile as suggesting people who openly supported the IRA during the Troubles weren't supporting bombings.
Oh wait - he did that too! 🤦♂️
Given Hamas had never made any secret of their ultimate goal (clue, Austrian painters would fit right in) calling them a "force for social justice" is possibly the single stupidest and most offensive thing an MP has said in recent memory - and that's with some Olympic-level competition from Brexiteers on the Tory right.
Will Trump provoke a crisis of legitimacy for the US supreme court?
The court can only rescue Trump from the Colorado ruling by shredding originalism and textualism. Will it?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/26/trump-us-supreme-court-crisis?CMP=share_btn_tw
Greece would offer major treasures to UK for Parthenon marbles, minister says
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/dec/27/greece-would-offer-major-treasures-to-uk-for-parthenon-marbles-minister-says
Their greatest threat isn't Israel but moderate Arab opinion but that along with moderate Israeli opinion, was extinguished on October 7th.
The only two alternative options Israel had were either to do nothing but that was politically unacceptable once the details of the Hamas atrocity were revealed. No Government could stand back and watch so many of its citizens be slaughtered without desiring to retaliate - or to make the retailiation swift and devastating but instead and probably under US pressure, Israel have gone for a more nuanced approach but nuance isn't easy in a Gaza sewer and it takes time and casualties in a way a massive aerial and armoured assault doesn't.
Hamas probably also realised (as they aren't stupid) the West doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged conflict and nightly coverage of the destruction of Gaza City, Khan Younis and elsewhere serves only to increase the calls for some sort of ceasefire. Hamas can afford to wait, Israel probably can't.
"OPINION: The facts demonstrate that the northern Sinai Peninsula is an ideal location to develop a spacious resettlement for the people of Gaza."
https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/1739340510056022107?s=20
This is the obvious, inexorable endpoint for what Israel is doing. It is the only way they can permanently prevent a repeat of October 7. And if they don't achieve that goal - making October 7 unrepeatable - then the war is pointless, indeed hideously counter-productive
SINCE Oct 7th.
It's not consistent for anyone who believes that Israel is an illegitimate settler-colonialist project to support its right to exist in anything like its present form.
First Israeli Conscientious Objector of the Gaza War Is Jailed: 'I Know It's the Right Thing'
Tal Mitnick, 18, is currently serving 30 days in a military jail after refusing to be drafted into the Israel Defense Forces on Tuesday. The government wants to 'deepen the occupation and disallow any kind of dissent,' he said on the eve of his sentencing.
If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated.
Interestingly, October 7 has made Israeli Arabs much more supportive of Israel, it has also persuaded ultra-Orthodox Jews to join the army (hitherto not-kosher)
Israel has been radicalised and united by the attack, and the IDF won't stop now until Gaza is "finished" in some appalling way. I am not sure even Biden can rein them in
I don't even like Corbyn, but I think he has every right to be judged on what he says and does not by his inner monologue as divined by people who have no insights into his thought processes - or indeed much else.
It's a disgrace.
Israel has no realistic option but to fight this war until everyone who is fighting for or otherwise supporting Hamas is dead or surrenders.
Other nations though have a choice to be able to offer refuge to innocents, instead they're just turning a blind eye.
Considering they're a forcing for bombing and destroying Israel and nothing else, yes I totally agree that we should judge on his words and actions.
And that judgment is guilty.
Your attempts to justify the inexcusable are as mad as those who attempt to justify Trump.
How horrendous.
[Because Israel.cannot defend a 20 mile border, we will drive the Palestinians into a country with a far, far longer border with Israel.]
It isn't inexorable logic, it's execrable logic - Bibi logic. When the Israelis have time to sit and think how it all happened they are coming for that man, and his conduct in directing this war aims simply to put off that day for as long as possible.
Hezbollah talks tough and does almost nothing, ditto Iran
As for the rest: Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, Iraq, UAE, the MENA in general, there is not a peep from any capital and no hint of military aid for Gaza
Hamas have perhaps miscalculated. They correctly estimated that if they launched a terrible attack on Israel then Israel would respond with brutal fury - and so it is. But my sense is they then expected the Arab world to unite in attacking Israel, and nothing like that has occurred
Majority of Israelis oppose annexation, resettlement of Gaza
https://www.timesofisrael.com/majority-of-israelis-oppose-annexation-resettlement-of-gaza-poll/
If people cared, they'd be offering refuge.
I think they doubly miscalculated, they both thought that the Arab world would respond (it has not) and that the West would restrain Israel (it has not).
Hamas acted like a drunk picking a fight with someone bigger than them, safe in the knowledge the other guys friends would hold them back. Instead the other guys friends saw what happened and are content to stand back and let the fight play out.
I'm sure plenty of Arabs want Hamas to be gutted but ruling groups have to keep one eye on radical populations and the undercurrents in the streets.
As with Ukraine, I'm not sure what the end looks like - a cordon sanitaire extending beyond rocket range from the Israeli border? What of the Palestinian civilians - do they go to Egypt, the Sinai or live in the ruins?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-britains-nazi-loving-press-baron-made-the-case-for-hitler/
Here is what I said, I was explictly talking about the conduct of the war:
"the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH"
Here is the poll:
"57.5% of Israelis said the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power."
https://x.com/AHistoryRhyme/status/1739305803268448414?s=20
… If you look at Israeli polls, the Israeli public thinks the IDF have not gone far ENOUGH. Israelis want Gaza eradicated…
I know it’s really fucking tedious when your simplistic solutions get critiqued, but man up.
Around the world there are considerably more than 2m refugees.
If ethnic cleansing is allegedly happening in your eyes, all the more reason to offer refugee status to innocents.
My guess is Israel wants to render Gaza largely uninhabitable, at least for now. A no go zone for everyone, especially Hamas. So where do these poor people live? Can Egypt be persuaded with billions in aid?
Israel should escalate and grind down Hamas until everyone who supports Hamas and fights for Hamas is dead, or surrenders unconditionally.
Because that's the right thing to do when innocents are at risk of dying at war.
If the rest of the world shuts out Palestinians and denies them refuge, they're morally culpable for every innocent that dies in the war.
And by the way I am not proposing this as a wise solution for the Israelis, I am merely pointing out this is the logic of Israeli public opinion and this is the logic of what the IDF are doing to Gaza, right now. I can't see any other endpoint that makes political and strategic sense for them
Make Gaza an almost impossible place to live and force the Gazans to move, to a more distant place where Israel can be sure there wil be no more October 7s coming over the wall
Jehovah alone knows where that place might be
Indeed, this is one reason why Egypt is clearly quite happy (whatever their public statements) to see Gaza pounded to rubble. It sends a very clear message to Iran and their militias.
But they won't take any refugees for fear of having more of the aforesaid militias slot in alongside them.
What's happening now is they are going all out. Previously it was economic sanctions, now it's bombs.
And that was always the inevitable result of 7th October, which makes me wonder what the hell Hamas thought they would achieve.
Achieving the destruction of Hamas without innocents being at risk is an absolutely impossible ask.
Bombing people in refugee camps is met with shrugs . Israel hides behind its now worn out mantra that they need to continue until allegedly Hamas can’t commit another October 7th attack .
Clearly the IDF wouldn’t suffer such intelligence failures again so at what point will they say job done !
What we are seeing is a united, galvanised and cruelly radicalised Israel now determined to settle the Palestinian problem once and for all. And it will not go well for the poor Palestinians
Who is going to stop them? I guess ultimately America could stop all aid and cease supplying weapons, but maybe Israel has stockpiled enough anyway. I also wonder if Biden has the bollocks to finally say No to Jerusalem
Absolutely anywhere in Gaza should be a fair target for IDF forces if Hamas targets are there. That includes so-called "refugee camps".
They should say job done when everyone in Hamas is dead.
If they were indiscriminately killing everyone it would be 2 million dead, not thousands.
There is no reasonable solution to the current conflict that includes those attacks continuing. It is absolutely absurd that Israel has tolerated it for this long.
No: justices were appointed according to the rules. Trump was lucky he got to appoint so many. If, as counterfactual, it had been a democratic president and 3 reliably progressive justices appointed the court wouldn’t have been “packed” it would have been “at the forefront of forging the modern America”.
I am trying to work out if the Israelis have a strategy beyond blind fury and brutal revenge, and I believe they do. Gaza will cease to exist as we have known it
Many of these so-called "refugee camps" have people who were not only born in the "camp" but their parents were born there, and their grandparents were born there too.
At what point does something cease to be a "camp" and become a town or city or other place of residence instead?
The only true, safe refuge would be outside the warzone.
In both cases their reasoning was 'there's an election coming.'
For the first, they said, 'let's delay it for the new President to decide because it's less than a year until you leave.'
For the second, 'let's ratify it now in case there's a new President elected in six weeks.'
Admittedly, you could point out neither was directly to do with Trump. But the Supreme Court has been being rigged for a very long time (since Franklin D Roosevelt, indeed) and recent events have left it 'packed' with a Republican majority through quite shameless procedural jiggery pokery.
SCOTUS will throw out the Colorado decision, you can't have US presidential candidates being excluded from the national elections by partisan courts in state capitals on the grounds that the judges don't approve of his face. What is to stop a Republican supreme court in Tennessee ruling out Biden coz of all the dodgy photos of him with his 15 year old babysitter?
Trump has not been convicted by a jury of insurrection. All else is fluff
1906 and 1918 would also be contenders but both were before universal suffrage (1928) so should probably be discounted.
According to Wiki 279 seats were gained by various parties in 1945.
In 1931 the Tories gained 210, National Liberal gained 35, National Labour gained 13. In total 289 seats were gained by different parties.
Wikipedia's graphic on this is very unhelpful.
Now, I think the sidelining of Garland was egregious, but the Senate is given that power.
It would be close between 1945 and 1931 on that basis.
I have huge sympathy for Israel. What we we do if a similar terrorist act ( yes BBC, Hamas are terrorists) were carried out on U.K. soil? But all those expressing an opinion around our table now thought Israel had gone too far.
It's only his last few deluded fanboys who believe his ludicrous explanations of why he has always been terribly keen on meeting extremists of the worst kind from one side and being sympathetic to their demands. While unfailingly condemning even those in the mainstream of the other.
He's no man of peace. Never has been. He's someone who unfailingly wants whichever 'side' Western nations are on, to lose, so will demand peace from then - and defining the other side's violence as legitimate resistance that they hold no blame for, or ignoring it altogether. It's a truly cancerous attitude one is thankful has been exorcised from Labour.
21,110 divided by 1,387 = 15.22
There wasn’t any taking of sides. More a general weariness with everything that comes from the Middle East, and an urgent desire for it all to go away, whatever it takes
Alexei Sayle
What is happening is horrendous and I have huge sympathy for all innocents affected by this. At some point the conundrum of a Israel vs people who think Israel shouldn’t exist needs to be resolved. It’s not easy to see how.
We would have invaded Ireland
https://x.com/archrose90/status/1739777228521505060
But - it would be a bad idea. It would just mean the Republicans would then appoint x number to restock the court in their own favour when they next held the Presidency and the Senate. And so on ad infinitum.
Franklin D. Roosevelt tried it in the 1930s and the extent of the opposition caused him to back down. (Admittedly, the mere idea also stopped the Supreme Court from behaving like dicks.)