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SystemSystem Posts: 12,680
edited November 2014 in General

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  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,933
    The attactions of being first on this thread are less than the annoyance of being last on the previous one!
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,487
    It's frustrating that internet advertising, unlike everything else on the internet, has scarcely improved over time, at least in terms of becoming less annoying.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,605
    Money isn't everything

    Matthew Goodwin ‏@GoodwinMJ · 46m46 minutes ago
    Would you prefer a cut in tax you pay or cut in no. of migrants coming to Britain? All voters vs Ukip
    Source: YouGov pic.twitter.com/EuEOVZ0ucC

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,891
    The quest is on:
    will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?

    Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    THinking about the latest Panelbase Scotland poll I have a hunch that the 14% Don't Know might well be "Shy Labour" who - when push come to shove - will troop out and vote Labour on the basis of Not Tory on the day.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited November 2014
    I haven't had time to read the last thread, but the real question is "Who is trying to destabilise ED" ? If you exclude the Tories who want him in situ because he really is crap.. Who in Labour really wants ED out and who has most to gain?. Its not necessarily the same person ....
    Who are the suspects in this drama?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,605
    Morris_Dancer said:

    The quest is on:
    will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?

    Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.

    The thing here is that for the lowest paid, a fall in the number of immigrants would be the equivalent of a tax cut
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    We desperately need more immigrants for an aging population.

    Someone has to pay the taxes.
  • CopperSulphateCopperSulphate Posts: 1,119
    Morris_Dancer said:

    The quest is on:
    will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?

    Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.

    Does backbench dissent really wreck a party's polling figures?

    Having some difference of opinion in a party is a good thing.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    I fear that my knowledge of popular culture is insufficient for me to understand this cartoon.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,338
    Is that Salmond's effigy at the back?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,891
    Mr. Sulphate, if the dissent is the backbenchers trying to axe the leader, then yes.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    You wait all summer for Ratty to reappear - and four turn up together.

    Is this what Ed's pledges for a London-style bus service op north was all about?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,595
    FPT:
    Socrates said:

    It's funny how critics of Putin keep on dying suddenly before old age:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11212072/Russian-actor-and-Putin-critic-found-dead-in-Moscow.html

    You wouldn't be pedalling a conspiracy theory would you?
  • CopperSulphateCopperSulphate Posts: 1,119
    edited November 2014
    dr_spyn said:

    Is that Salmond's effigy at the back?

    What that massive quivering fat red blob?

    I don't see anything resembling that in the cartoon.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,795
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    I fear that my knowledge of popular culture is insufficient for me to understand this cartoon.

    I suspect, Richard, that the problem is you are too young!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krazy_Kat
  • CopperSulphateCopperSulphate Posts: 1,119
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Sulphate, if the dissent is the backbenchers trying to axe the leader, then yes.

    Why though? Labour would do far better with a different leader and everyone lining up behind him makes the whole party look like a joke.

    Maybe I'm just allergic to the Blair presidential style where all dissent is suppressed.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    FPT:

    Socrates said:

    It's funny how critics of Putin keep on dying suddenly before old age:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11212072/Russian-actor-and-Putin-critic-found-dead-in-Moscow.html

    You wouldn't be pedalling a conspiracy theory would you?
    On your bike!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,595
    From something I saw in the previous thread -can we nix this popular straw man about Kippers 'thinking everything will be fine if we can just leave the EU'. No-one thinks this. We don't think everything will be fine, but we do understand that we won't be able to start making things fine until we regain the crucial powers that currently reside with the EU.

    What levers do Cameron and Ed is crap have at their disposal to transform this country's fortunes, even if they wanted to? Having a full number of digits doesn't make you a concert pianist -but you sure as sh*t won't become one if you only have one or two.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,891
    Mr. Sulphate, a new leader would boost Labour, but bloodletting right before an election would not.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    If I was Dave now I'd be telling my troops to STFU.

    We don't want to get people feeling sorry for ed.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,810
    edited November 2014
    CopperSulphate said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    The quest is on:
    will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?

    Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.

    Does backbench dissent really wreck a party's polling figures?
    Yes, because it reinforces the impression of lack of credibility.

    ie If Labour MPs don't think he is good enough to be PM, then the public will be more likely to think he isn't good enough to be PM.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Most seats market is getting closer:

    Lab 1.88
    Con 2.18

    http://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/market?id=1.101416473
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,086
    CopperSulphate said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    The quest is on:
    will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?

    Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.

    Does backbench dissent really wreck a party's polling figures?

    Having some difference of opinion in a party is a good thing.
    Maybe, but the public punishes a divided party.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,706
    edited November 2014
    Is jackw an unnamed Labour MP?
  • CopperSulphateCopperSulphate Posts: 1,119
    logical_song said:

    CopperSulphate said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    The quest is on:
    will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?

    Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.

    Does backbench dissent really wreck a party's polling figures?

    Having some difference of opinion in a party is a good thing.
    Maybe, but the public punishes a divided party.
    I wonder if it is more that a party is divided when they are already doing badly in the polls.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,891
    Mr. Taffys, it's an interesting point. Is Miliband being mocked constantly going to lead to contempt or pity?

    I suspect the former.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 3h 3 hours ago

    Panelbase Scottish poll has SNP with the 17% lead over LAB on Westminster voting. SNP 45 LAB 28 CON 15 UKIP 7 LD 3 GRN 1"

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    The Cameron inauthenticity problem in a nutshell.Dave can never be Nigel but he wants to.It makes Dave look like a one-term weakling.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/david-cameron-is-in-danger-of-becoming-a-poor-impression-of-nigel-farage-9844972.html
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,595
    volcanopete said:

    The Cameron inauthenticity problem in a nutshell.Dave can never be Nigel but he wants to.It makes Dave look like a one-term weakling.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/david-cameron-is-in-danger-of-becoming-a-poor-impression-of-nigel-farage-9844972.html

    The 'Prime Minister of In'? -bring it on I say.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,933
    Defence by denial isn't usually a good plan and that's Ed's line. If he'd rounded upon them as anonymous cowards or some such he'd (in my view) be better off.

    I think there is a degree that Labour is suffering from localism/devolution/whatever following the Scottish goings on - perhaps these NW MPs are disconnected from Ed's London mob (I know he's really from Doncaster North obviously). Some of the London mob must be in on this though - it's a BBC report!

  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    AndyJS said:

    "Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 3h 3 hours ago

    Panelbase Scottish poll has SNP with the 17% lead over LAB on Westminster voting. SNP 45 LAB 28 CON 15 UKIP 7 LD 3 GRN 1"

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB

    Three on the spin. A 39 point turnaround.

    Cameron and Miliband battling for most seats, not majorities.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I thought someone said a Labour MP was mentioned on the BBC's World At One radio programme?
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,927
    As a man from Kent, and not too distant from Edenbridge, I would like to say how proud I am of the burning of Barroso. His effigy that is....
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,487
    Ninoinoz said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    FPT:

    Socrates said:

    It's funny how critics of Putin keep on dying suddenly before old age:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11212072/Russian-actor-and-Putin-critic-found-dead-in-Moscow.html

    You wouldn't be pedalling a conspiracy theory would you?
    On your bike!
    Yeah, don't *wheel* that old claptrap out again Luckyguy...

  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,927
    Edenbridge burning Barroso:

    Mr Mitchell said: "There were a lot of people who wanted us to burn Katie Hopkins again but she's put all that weight on so building her would have been a lot of extra work."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29917779
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    From something I saw in the previous thread -can we nix this popular straw man about Kippers 'thinking everything will be fine if we can just leave the EU'. No-one thinks this. We don't think everything will be fine, but we do understand that we won't be able to start making things fine until we regain the crucial powers that currently reside with the EU.

    What levers do Cameron and Ed is crap have at their disposal to transform this country's fortunes, even if they wanted to? Having a full number of digits doesn't make you a concert pianist -but you sure as sh*t won't become one if you only have one or two.

    Well no, clearly you can't.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    I'm voting UKIP.

    Grateful to Graham Harper and Rocky who created quite a stir on Rochester High Street today. Thank you both. pic.twitter.com/qB89BI6E5u

    — Mark Reckless (@MarkReckless) November 6, 2014
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight – Labour lead by one, Lib Dems and Greens tied on 7%: CON 32%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 17%, GRN 7%
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,338
    Was the C4 and BBC report a pooled effort - similar words, with both interviewing Soley.

    Not sure that Ed does himself favours trotting out hackneyed phrases Costa Living Crisis, NHS...

    Hostile press didn't ask Ed Miliband to drop coins in that beggar's cup. Their photos made him look like a tight wad, his actions made police, Big Issue and some Social Services angry.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Quiet as a graveyard.

    Tories appear to be campaigning in a graveyard in Chatham (in Rochester + Strood).Looks a bit desperate pic.twitter.com/Bb8biAjard

    — Jason Groves (@JasonGroves1) November 4, 2014
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    MikeK said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight – Labour lead by one, Lib Dems and Greens tied on 7%: CON 32%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 17%, GRN 7%

    An early release tonight. Usually they only do that when the Tories are ahead.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,099
    CopperSulphate said:

    logical_song said:

    CopperSulphate said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    The quest is on:
    will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?

    Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.

    Does backbench dissent really wreck a party's polling figures?

    Having some difference of opinion in a party is a good thing.
    Maybe, but the public punishes a divided party.
    I wonder if it is more that a party is divided when they are already doing badly in the polls.
    The Lib Dems seemed to have kept a remarkable discipline despite atrocious poll ratings.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Any bets on how long it will be before a poll puts the Lib Dems in SIXTH place (behind the SNP)?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    MikeK said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight – Labour lead by one, Lib Dems and Greens tied on 7%: CON 32%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 17%, GRN 7%

    Lol - I think that was last night's.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,338
    Character of leader does matter, Ben Page IPSOS Mori. News from Scotland chrystalised problem.

    Ed M - image hapless. Almost impossible to zoom up the heights of popularity.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    isam said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    The quest is on:
    will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?

    Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.

    The thing here is that for the lowest paid, a fall in the number of immigrants would be the equivalent of a tax cut
    The lowest paid are on the state regulated minimum wage. Fewer available workers to take the quite large increase in available jobs would cause inflation, probably an increase in union influence, production and service bottle necks and would impoverish us all.
    What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing.
    To be fair 90% of new jobs created in 2013 were to UK nationals
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/13/uk-jobs-british-nationals-romanians-bulgarians
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,810
    felix said:

    MikeK said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight – Labour lead by one, Lib Dems and Greens tied on 7%: CON 32%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 17%, GRN 7%

    Lol - I think that was last night's.
    Yes - that is last night's.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MikeK said:

    Quiet as a graveyard.

    Tories appear to be campaigning in a graveyard in Chatham (in Rochester + Strood).Looks a bit desperate pic.twitter.com/Bb8biAjard

    — Jason Groves (@JasonGroves1) November 4, 2014

    There are long traditions of dead people voting, often several times!
  • isamisam Posts: 42,605
    volcanopete said:

    The Cameron inauthenticity problem in a nutshell.Dave can never be Nigel but he wants to.It makes Dave look like a one-term weakling.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/david-cameron-is-in-danger-of-becoming-a-poor-impression-of-nigel-farage-9844972.html

    Love the fact they noticed the IPSOS MORI outlier, without mentioning all the YouGovs that show an increase in wanting out!

    Cue "IPSOS MORI were the most accurate at counting flies on the wall at the last PB meet etc tec"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,099
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29929438

    Arf !
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,927
    Chris Blackhurst thinks "only the more extreme folk of Kent" will enjoy the Barroso-burning.

    Smug London bubble-dweller alert.

    His piece is predicated around the outlier Mori poll.

    Oh well, no one reads the Independent anyway.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Reckless empty chaired at the hustings

    Very "new politics"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,099
    MikeK said:

    I'm voting UKIP.

    Grateful to Graham Harper and Rocky who created quite a stir on Rochester High Street today. Thank you both. pic.twitter.com/qB89BI6E5u

    — Mark Reckless (@MarkReckless) November 6, 2014

    Is that you Weathercock :) ?
  • GaiusGaius Posts: 227
    surbiton said:

    We desperately need more immigrants for an aging population.

    Someone has to pay the taxes.

    I think you will find that people already pay more than enough tax to the tune of £600bn a year.

    What we really need is a govt that doesn't waste so much.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Pulpstar said:

    MikeK said:

    I'm voting UKIP.

    Grateful to Graham Harper and Rocky who created quite a stir on Rochester High Street today. Thank you both. pic.twitter.com/qB89BI6E5u

    — Mark Reckless (@MarkReckless) November 6, 2014
    Is that you Weathercock :) ?

    Who's Weathercock? (innocent face)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Just been watching old TTOI episodes. The LotO practices walking at the Cenotaph, then is defenestrated in a back bench coup.

    Absurdest fantasy...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,595
    Flightpath said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    From something I saw in the previous thread -can we nix this popular straw man about Kippers 'thinking everything will be fine if we can just leave the EU'. No-one thinks this. We don't think everything will be fine, but we do understand that we won't be able to start making things fine until we regain the crucial powers that currently reside with the EU.

    What levers do Cameron and Ed is crap have at their disposal to transform this country's fortunes, even if they wanted to? Having a full number of digits doesn't make you a concert pianist -but you sure as sh*t won't become one if you only have one or two.

    Well no, clearly you can't.
    Sorry I meant with posters not trolls. -You can obviously continue as you wish.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,605
    edited November 2014
    Flightpath said:

    isam said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    The quest is on:
    will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?

    Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.

    The thing here is that for the lowest paid, a fall in the number of immigrants would be the equivalent of a tax cut
    The lowest paid are on the state regulated minimum wage. Fewer available workers to take the quite large increase in available jobs would cause inflation, probably an increase in union influence, production and service bottle necks and would impoverish us all.
    What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing.
    To be fair 90% of new jobs created in 2013 were to UK nationals
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/13/uk-jobs-british-nationals-romanians-bulgarians
    "What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing"

    Yes I agree

    But more jobs are being dragged down to minimum wage level by economic migrants

    I freely confess this is a protectionist move, and I dont care if UKIP used to be a free market libertarian rah rah rah party

    I have always been a Labour voter, and motivated by getting the best deal for the lowest paid.. If that means stifling foreign competition, and I think that is the best way, then so be it

    Its better for the poor of this country to have the chance to earn a decent wage without competition rather than be propped up by state benefits.. They're being propped up either way, but at least this way they are working and learning

    By all means have foreign competetiton in highly skilled jobs.. same as the old system in football.. only the best can come and play here... the journeymen can stay in their own country and our kids will learn on the job

  • GaiusGaius Posts: 227
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Taffys, it's an interesting point. Is Miliband being mocked constantly going to lead to contempt or pity?

    I suspect the former.

    Its not contempt or pity, weird Ed has become a figure of fun.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,891
    Mr. Pulpstar, huzzah!

    Nobody bleated when Cameron et al. got burnt. 'tis a victory over the desperately offended.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,099
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Pulpstar, huzzah!

    Nobody bleated when Cameron et al. got burnt. 'tis a victory over the desperately offended.

    Whoever complained should be charged with wasting police time.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Morris_Dancer said:

    The quest is on:
    will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?

    Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.

    But given you're a self-employed publisher and author, why aren't you getting the same support that a self-employed Big Issue seller does?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    UKIP and the Countryside.

    http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/531907/Ukip-to-win-rural-countryside-vote-next-election
  • isamisam Posts: 42,605
    My local Conservative MP sent a leaflet round this week boasting of how "Queens Hospital is under new management and already has record levels of Doctors and Nurses to care for patients"

    But no beds for sick children

    http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/health/pictured_boy_with_broken_arm_uses_floor_for_bed_at_busy_queen_s_hospital_1_3835970
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    isam said:

    My local Conservative MP sent a leaflet round this week boasting of how "Queens Hospital is under new management and already has record levels of Doctors and Nurses to care for patients"

    But no beds for sick children

    http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/health/pictured_boy_with_broken_arm_uses_floor_for_bed_at_busy_queen_s_hospital_1_3835970

    Romford NHS has always been rubbish.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,927
    edited November 2014
    Pulpstar said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Pulpstar, huzzah!

    Nobody bleated when Cameron et al. got burnt. 'tis a victory over the desperately offended.

    Whoever complained should be charged with wasting police time.
    It was probably Salmond. He completely misjudged in taking offence.

    Mr Salmond responded to the initial tweet by telling BBC Scotland he was "used to insults from Tories in East Sussex".

    No one likes people who can't take a joke. Would he have got on his high horse if an effigy of Cameron was being put on a pyre in Edinburgh?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Luckyguy1983 said:


    Having a full number of digits doesn't make you a concert pianist -but you sure as sh*t won't become one if you only have one or two.

    At the risk of taking you literally...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO2Aq0sEf88
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @faisalislam: ..@KellyTolhurst: "@markreckless hasn't turned up because the candidate for Labour and Conservatives are two strong women and he was scared"
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Pulpstar, huzzah!

    Nobody bleated when Cameron et al. got burnt. 'tis a victory over the desperately offended.

    “O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
    To see oursels as others see us!
    It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
    An' foolish notion.”
  • isamisam Posts: 42,605
    edited November 2014
    chestnut said:

    isam said:

    My local Conservative MP sent a leaflet round this week boasting of how "Queens Hospital is under new management and already has record levels of Doctors and Nurses to care for patients"

    But no beds for sick children

    http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/health/pictured_boy_with_broken_arm_uses_floor_for_bed_at_busy_queen_s_hospital_1_3835970

    Romford NHS has always been rubbish.
    Well now that King George A&E is closing and Harold Wood Hospital is closed altogether, you can imagine it hasnt got any better...

    Oh and the council are selling the homes at Harold Wood, and it is rumoured St Georges, to house Newham overspill, so there will be tens of thousands more people to deal with

    Grrreat
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,891
    Mr. Charles, one waits with bated breath to see what Miliband's conference speech pledge of more help for the self-employed will be.

    Incidentally, if anyone wants to both help a self-employed chap and get themselves an absurdly good bargain, do feel free to browse my wares here (available elsewhere, notably Smashwords, but I know most use Amazon):
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thaddeus-White/e/B008C6RU98/

    Been a dry year, but hoping to get Kingdom Asunder out in 2015, as well as (potentially) several short stories [though anthologies can be delayed because of the large number involved], and another project that sci-fi fans may enjoy.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    KentRising said:

    Chris Blackhurst thinks "only the more extreme folk of Kent" will enjoy the Barroso-burning.

    Smug London bubble-dweller alert.

    His piece is predicated around the outlier Mori poll.

    Oh well, no one reads the Independent anyway.

    Burning effigies of those who seek authority over them is a favorite pastime of Kentishmen (and South Saxons*) of all persuasions, I thought

    *but they don't really count
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    This is why Labour MPs are in despair about Ed...

    @ezraklein: Every losing Democratic Senate candidate was more popular than Obama: http://t.co/e92NRlUzaG

    He is going to cost them their seats
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,595
    Charles said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:


    Having a full number of digits doesn't make you a concert pianist -but you sure as sh*t won't become one if you only have one or two.

    At the risk of taking you literally...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO2Aq0sEf88
    Bless her -how wonderful. She has four digits, but I'll allow it.

    We could continue the analogy further, and say even with the limited powers at their disposal, a really great and utterly determined Government could turn things around within the EU. Sadly, the direction of travel is such that staying in still seems to be a dead end to me.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    Been to Dirty Ducks for a not so dry run
  • manofkent2014manofkent2014 Posts: 1,543
    FPT

    @OldKingCole

    Indeed I have some sympathy for Clegg. Nice lad even if he was an arsonist but absolutely hopeless when it comes to policy (that HoL reform was a mess). After all he got dealt a lousy hand. Huhne, Cable. Oakeshott, Tonge, Opek, Baker, Browne, Laws, Davey, Featherstone, Teather, Rennard, Hancock, Alexander, Ashdown.

    No wonder the poor sod is so unpopular trying to make even a sow's ear let alone a silk purse out of that worthless rabble!
  • manofkent2014manofkent2014 Posts: 1,543
    @Flightpath

    Your Iraq war theory is cobblers because three quarters of those voters who left Blair left before the 2001 election when Iraq wasn't even contemplated

    The Libdems won votes off Labour by pretending to be left wing. That's why those votes returned to Labour as soon as the Libdems got into bed with the 'centreist' Tories. Funny that isn't it? First they are repelled by 'centreist' Blair and then they are repelled by Centreist Cameron and you think those voters are centreists?

    And if the centreist Libdems were so succesful in their centreism do tell how they rarely win 10% of the vote share these days in polls and hanging on to their deposit is now considered an event to celebrate at by elections?

    As for your opinion of UKIP, given your narrow minded bigoted view of them you'll understand if i respond in this way.........

    You really do talk bollocks!
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Ditto. Mine was so poor they bought me S1 of Friends a decade ago. I still haven't broken the seal.
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    I fear that my knowledge of popular culture is insufficient for me to understand this cartoon.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    I had my £9.99 gym bag with me so definitely not part of TSE's metropolitan elite. Been to Tooting managed to resist shouting power to the. people
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    isam said:

    Well now that King George A&E is closing and Harold Wood Hospital is closed altogether, you can imagine it hasnt got any better...

    Oh and the council are selling the homes at Harold Wood, and it is rumoured St Georges, to house Newham overspill, so there will be tens of thousands more people to deal with

    Grrreat

    These people that are being pushed out are being displaced by all the money that is moving into Tower Hamlets, Hackney, Newham.

    The smart money is moving into, not out of, London. It's a reversal of what used to be the norm.

    The poorer people, whatever their heritage, have to move somewhere cheaper - i.e further away from London. An RM postcode is a lot cheaper than an E postcode.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    bigjohnowls said:

    Been to Dirty Ducks for a not so dry run

    Dirty Dicks that should be
  • isamisam Posts: 42,605
    edited November 2014
    chestnut said:

    isam said:

    Well now that King George A&E is closing and Harold Wood Hospital is closed altogether, you can imagine it hasnt got any better...

    Oh and the council are selling the homes at Harold Wood, and it is rumoured St Georges, to house Newham overspill, so there will be tens of thousands more people to deal with

    Grrreat

    These people that are being pushed out are being displaced by all the money that is moving into Tower Hamlets, Hackney, Newham.

    The smart money is moving into, not out of, London. It's a reversal of what used to be the norm.

    The poorer people, whatever their heritage, have to move somewhere cheaper - i.e further away from London. An RM postcode is a lot cheaper than an E postcode.
    Yes you are right.. I think that is what will win Hornchurch & Upminster for UKIP next May

    Hospitals are being demolished, and built on to house overspill from the places you mention... it isn't going down well

    The conservative council approved the developments, and Boris ignored the petitions

    http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/boris_snub_is_such_an_insult_claims_harold_wood_residents_1_778766
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    isam said:

    Flightpath said:

    isam said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    The quest is on:
    will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?

    Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.

    The thing here is that for the lowest paid, a fall in the number of immigrants would be the equivalent of a tax cut
    The lowest paid are on the state regulated minimum wage. Fewer available workers to take the quite large increase in available jobs would cause inflation, probably an increase in union influence, production and service bottle necks and would impoverish us all.
    What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing.
    To be fair 90% of new jobs created in 2013 were to UK nationals
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/13/uk-jobs-british-nationals-romanians-bulgarians
    "What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing"

    Yes I agree

    But more jobs are being dragged down to minimum wage level by economic migrants

    I freely confess this is a protectionist move, and I dont care if UKIP used to be a free market libertarian rah rah rah party

    I have always been a Labour voter, and motivated by getting the best deal for the lowest paid.. If that means stifling foreign competition, and I think that is the best way, then so be it

    Its better for the poor of this country to have the chance to earn a decent wage without competition rather than be propped up by state benefits.. They're being propped up either way, but at least this way they are working and learning

    By all means have foreign competetiton in highly skilled jobs.. same as the old system in football.. only the best can come and play here... the journeymen can stay in their own country and our kids will learn on the job

    I prefer to see people in a job than on the dole. Its a triumph of hope over expectation to think that this process will be easy and that people can move into generously paid jobs.

    You neatly illustrate the schism amongst the UKIP collective. In truth there is a massive split in purpose between its supporters.
    The recent report by the way - pretty well argued and researched - pointed out that EU migrants have contributed £20 billion in taxes over the amount that they claimed or consumed. The figure for native Brits in the same period was minus £617 billion. Consumers are getting a good deal from overseas workers whether they are migrants from the EU or hard pressed labour in China.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    manofkent2014 said:

    @Flightpath

    Your Iraq war theory is cobblers because three quarters of those voters who left Blair left before the 2001 election when Iraq wasn't even contemplated

    The Libdems won votes off Labour by pretending to be left wing. That's why those votes returned to Labour as soon as the Libdems got into bed with the 'centreist' Tories. Funny that isn't it? First they are repelled by 'centreist' Blair and then they are repelled by Centreist Cameron and you think those voters are centreists?

    And if the centreist Libdems were so succesful in their centreism do tell how they rarely win 10% of the vote share these days in polls and hanging on to their deposit is now considered an event to celebrate at by elections?

    As for your opinion of UKIP, given your narrow minded bigoted view of them you'll understand if i respond in this way.........

    You really do talk bollocks!

    He certainly does. I voted LD in 2005 because of Iraq
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    I see UKIP's Mr Reckless has bottled it tonight.

    Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 22m22 minutes ago Rochester, South East
    ..@KellyTolhurst: "@markreckless hasn't turned up because the candidate for Labour and Conservatives are two strong women and he was scared"
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    Who are the Lab MPs who have commented today?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    bigjohnowls said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Been to Dirty Ducks for a not so dry run

    Dirty Dicks that should be
    John. We actual "gather" on the first floor right at the back of the pub beyond the restaurant. It's usually very crowed and people have been known to miss it entirely.

    The slim-line man we know as Fat Steve usually arranges a special area which works well. Hope uoi can make an good to see Isam and others again.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Reckless or Gutless?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,605
    Flightpath said:

    isam said:

    Flightpath said:

    isam said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    The quest is on:
    will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?

    Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.

    The thing here is that for the lowest paid, a fall in the number of immigrants would be the equivalent of a tax cut
    "What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing"

    Yes I agree

    But more jobs are being dragged down to minimum wage level by economic migrants

    I freely confess this is a protectionist move, and I dont care if UKIP used to be a free market libertarian rah rah rah party

    I have always been a Labour voter, and motivated by getting the best deal for the lowest paid.. If that means stifling foreign competition, and I think that is the best way, then so be it

    Its better for the poor of this country to have the chance to earn a decent wage without competition rather than be propped up by state benefits.. They're being propped up either way, but at least this way they are working and learning

    By all means have foreign competetiton in highly skilled jobs.. same as the old system in football.. only the best can come and play here... the journeymen can stay in their own country and our kids will learn on the job

    I prefer to see people in a job than on the dole. Its a triumph of hope over expectation to think that this process will be easy and that people can move into generously paid jobs.

    You neatly illustrate the schism amongst the UKIP collective. In truth there is a massive split in purpose between its supporters.
    The recent report by the way - pretty well argued and researched - pointed out that EU migrants have contributed £20 billion in taxes over the amount that they claimed or consumed. The figure for native Brits in the same period was minus £617 billion. Consumers are getting a good deal from overseas workers whether they are migrants from the EU or hard pressed labour in China.
    " EU migrants have contributed £20 billion in taxes over the amount that they claimed or consumed. The figure for native Brits in the same period was minus £617 billion"

    That's the point I am making.. the economic boost from EU migrants is paying for the people they replace to be on the dole... a false economy with added social misery...The government are meant to look out for these people not ruin them
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''In truth there is a massive split in purpose between its supporters.''

    Most are far more worried about what goes on in Rotherham than strasbourg.

    EU related immigration has always been a pretty positive thing in my book. Non EU immigration is a far, far more mixed bag.

    no politician, not even UKIP, have the courage to say this.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    bigjohnowls said:

    manofkent2014 said:

    @Flightpath

    Your Iraq war theory is cobblers because three quarters of those voters who left Blair left before the 2001 election when Iraq wasn't even contemplated

    The Libdems won votes off Labour by pretending to be left wing. That's why those votes returned to Labour as soon as the Libdems got into bed with the 'centreist' Tories. Funny that isn't it? First they are repelled by 'centreist' Blair and then they are repelled by Centreist Cameron and you think those voters are centreists?

    And if the centreist Libdems were so succesful in their centreism do tell how they rarely win 10% of the vote share these days in polls and hanging on to their deposit is now considered an event to celebrate at by elections?

    As for your opinion of UKIP, given your narrow minded bigoted view of them you'll understand if i respond in this way.........

    You really do talk bollocks!

    He certainly does. I voted LD in 2005 because of Iraq
    I quit the party because of Iraq in 2004 (and NHS privatisation).

  • isamisam Posts: 42,605
    edited November 2014
    MikeSmithson said:

    I see UKIP's Mr Reckless has bottled it tonight.

    Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 22m22 minutes ago Rochester, South East
    ..@KellyTolhurst: "@markreckless hasn't turned up because the candidate for Labour and Conservatives are two strong women and he was scared"

    Would be great if that was actually the reason he gave

    Carswell didn't go to the first one in Clacton, didn't work out too bad
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,052
    Flightpath said:

    isam said:

    Flightpath said:

    isam said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    The quest is on:
    will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?

    Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.

    The thing here is that for the lowest paid, a fall in the number of immigrants would be the equivalent of a tax cut
    The lowest paid are on the state regulated minimum wage. Fewer available workers to take the quite large increase in available jobs would cause inflation, probably an increase in union influence, production and service bottle necks and would impoverish us all.
    What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing.
    To be fair 90% of new jobs created in 2013 were to UK nationals
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/13/uk-jobs-british-nationals-romanians-bulgarians
    "What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing"

    Yes I agree

    But more jobs are being dragged down to minimum wage level by economic migrants

    can stay in their own country and our kids will learn on the job

    I prefer to see people in a job than on the dole. Its a triumph of hope over expectation to think that this process will be easy and that people can move into generously paid jobs.

    You neatly illustrate the schism amongst the UKIP collective. In truth there is a massive split in purpose between its supporters.
    The recent report by the way - pretty well argued and researched - pointed out that EU migrants have contributed £20 billion in taxes over the amount that they claimed or consumed. The figure for native Brits in the same period was minus £617 billion. Consumers are getting a good deal from overseas workers whether they are migrants from the EU or hard pressed labour in China.
    yes why don't we just keep borrowing a la Osborne and let non-brits do all the work, it's called conservatism.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,400
    MikeSmithson said:

    I see UKIP's Mr Reckless has bottled it tonight.

    Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 22m22 minutes ago Rochester, South East
    ..@KellyTolhurst: "@markreckless hasn't turned up because the candidate for Labour and Conservatives are two strong women and he was scared"

    I think you're being unfair on Mr Reckless, Mike. I imagine he was ordered not to attend by the UKIP leadership. The two women would have confronted him with no end of Bloomite sexist quotations, and the poor man would have been squirming on his seat. Not a pretty spectacle. Good politics by UKIP to keep a lid on that sort of thing.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The government are meant to look out for these people not ruin them

    Wages might rise initially after we restricted EU immigration, but soon companies would move abroad in search of the low wages than still exist in many places.

    And that so instead of earning low wages many in the UK would be looking at the dole queue.

    Its not nice, but that's globalisation for you.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,605
    MikeSmithson said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Been to Dirty Ducks for a not so dry run

    Dirty Dicks that should be
    John. We actual "gather" on the first floor right at the back of the pub beyond the restaurant. It's usually very crowed and people have been known to miss it entirely.

    The slim-line man we know as Fat Steve usually arranges a special area which works well. Hope uoi can make an good to see Isam and others again.
    Ah thanks!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    foxinsoxuk said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    manofkent2014 said:

    @Flightpath

    Your Iraq war theory is cobblers because three quarters of those voters who left Blair left before the 2001 election when Iraq wasn't even contemplated

    The Libdems won votes off Labour by pretending to be left wing. That's why those votes returned to Labour as soon as the Libdems got into bed with the 'centreist' Tories. Funny that isn't it? First they are repelled by 'centreist' Blair and then they are repelled by Centreist Cameron and you think those voters are centreists?

    And if the centreist Libdems were so succesful in their centreism do tell how they rarely win 10% of the vote share these days in polls and hanging on to their deposit is now considered an event to celebrate at by elections?

    As for your opinion of UKIP, given your narrow minded bigoted view of them you'll understand if i respond in this way.........

    You really do talk bollocks!

    He certainly does. I voted LD in 2005 because of Iraq
    I quit the party because of Iraq in 2004 (and NHS privatisation).

    Bit of a shittter that LD votes enabled the coalition to accelerate the latter then?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    MikeSmithson said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Been to Dirty Ducks for a not so dry run

    Dirty Dicks that should be
    John. We actual "gather" on the first floor right at the back of the pub beyond the restaurant. It's usually very crowed and people have been known to miss it entirely.

    The slim-line man we know as Fat Steve usually arranges a special area which works well. Hope uoi can make an good to see Isam and others again.
    It was incredibly busy tonight. Didn't venture upstairs though.
    Looking forward to it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,891
    Mr. Owls, video on the NHS (including a spot on privatisation) here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lM69zmUHfc
This discussion has been closed.

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