Your Iraq war theory is cobblers because three quarters of those voters who left Blair left before the 2001 election when Iraq wasn't even contemplated
The Libdems won votes off Labour by pretending to be left wing. That's why those votes returned to Labour as soon as the Libdems got into bed with the 'centreist' Tories. Funny that isn't it? First they are repelled by 'centreist' Blair and then they are repelled by Centreist Cameron and you think those voters are centreists?
And if the centreist Libdems were so succesful in their centreism do tell how they rarely win 10% of the vote share these days in polls and hanging on to their deposit is now considered an event to celebrate at by elections?
As for your opinion of UKIP, given your narrow minded bigoted view of them you'll understand if i respond in this way.........
You really do talk bollocks!
He certainly does. I voted LD in 2005 because of Iraq
I quit the party because of Iraq in 2004 (and NHS privatisation).
Bit of a shittter that LD votes enabled the coalition to accelerate the latter then?
Increased use of the private sector was in the LibDem manifesto in 2010, but was not in the 97 Labour one. Indeed in 97 Labour promised to abolish the internal market.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 22m22 minutes ago Rochester, South East ..@KellyTolhurst: "@markreckless hasn't turned up because the candidate for Labour and Conservatives are two strong women and he was scared"
Well I hope he isn't ill. I still haven't fully recovered from the flu which started a fortnight ago.
@BethRigby: Labour woes: no orchestrated attempt to oust Miliband but 2 of malcontents say they may break cover in next few days that cld change things
Your Iraq war theory is cobblers because three quarters of those voters who left Blair left before the 2001 election when Iraq wasn't even contemplated
The Libdems won votes off Labour by pretending to be left wing. That's why those votes returned to Labour as soon as the Libdems got into bed with the 'centreist' Tories. Funny that isn't it? First they are repelled by 'centreist' Blair and then they are repelled by Centreist Cameron and you think those voters are centreists?
And if the centreist Libdems were so succesful in their centreism do tell how they rarely win 10% of the vote share these days in polls and hanging on to their deposit is now considered an event to celebrate at by elections?
As for your opinion of UKIP, given your narrow minded bigoted view of them you'll understand if i respond in this way.........
You really do talk bollocks!
I'm glad for you to keep thinking as you do In 1997 Labour had 43% of the vote and the LDs 17% In 2001 Labour had 41% of the vote and the LDs 18% In 2005 Labour had 35% of the vote and LDs 22%.
I do not argue that the LDs were honest - I point out they were effective. If the tories could have offered a home for those voters who turned to the LDs, both in 2005 and 2010 things might have been different in both elections.
Meantime its UKIP now who are are pretending they can be all things to all men when the only thing in common is a hatred of foreigners and immigrants. Something which ignores a more important social problem facing the UK.
Mr. P, if so, be interesting to see whether they've learnt anything from when they failed to remove Brown.
I am hopeful Miliband has the intellectual self-confidence to stand firm against the capitalist pigdogs seeking to remove him from his rightful place as chairman.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 22m22 minutes ago Rochester, South East ..@KellyTolhurst: "@markreckless hasn't turned up because the candidate for Labour and Conservatives are two strong women and he was scared"
I think you're being unfair on Mr Reckless, Mike. I imagine he was ordered not to attend by the UKIP leadership. The two women would have confronted him with no end of Bloomite sexist quotations, and the poor man would have been squirming on his seat. Not a pretty spectacle. Good politics by UKIP to keep a lid on that sort of thing.
They should be at home anyway, cleaning behind the fridge....
The government are meant to look out for these people not ruin them
Wages might rise initially after we restricted EU immigration, but soon companies would move abroad in search of the low wages than still exist in many places.
And that so instead of earning low wages many in the UK would be looking at the dole queue.
Its not nice, but that's globalisation for you.
Companies that can move abroad have already moved abroad. The ones that still here are here for a reason. People don't seem to realise there are different dynamics at play between textiles manufacturers and agriculture.
The Rochester by-election seems to have been going on forever, doesn't it? I'm bored with it and I don't even live there - what must voters feel like as the 97th leaflet comes through the door?
I do not attempt to defend Lab on this other than it was seen as a short term measure to get the horrendous waiting times down. Milburn was the architect of the internal market though. Big mistake. You do know there are some Lab figures i detest more than Dave. Blair and Milburn to name two.
Your Iraq war theory is cobblers because three quarters of those voters who left Blair left before the 2001 election when Iraq wasn't even contemplated
The Libdems won votes off Labour by pretending to be left wing. That's why those votes returned to Labour as soon as the Libdems got into bed with the 'centreist' Tories. Funny that isn't it? First they are repelled by 'centreist' Blair and then they are repelled by Centreist Cameron and you think those voters are centreists?
And if the centreist Libdems were so succesful in their centreism do tell how they rarely win 10% of the vote share these days in polls and hanging on to their deposit is now considered an event to celebrate at by elections?
As for your opinion of UKIP, given your narrow minded bigoted view of them you'll understand if i respond in this way.........
You really do talk bollocks!
I'm glad for you to keep thinking as you do In 1997 Labour had 43% of the vote and the LDs 17% In 2001 Labour had 41% of the vote and the LDs 18% In 2005 Labour had 35% of the vote and LDs 22%.
I do not argue that the LDs were honest - I point out they were effective. If the tories could have offered a home for those voters who turned to the LDs, both in 2005 and 2010 things might have been different in both elections.
Meantime its UKIP now who are are pretending they can be all things to all men when the only thing in common is a hatred of foreigners and immigrants. Something which ignores a more important social problem facing the UK.
No you were arguing that they were a centreist party which by this latest response even you seem now to recognise was garbage. Why you now have to quote figures showing their advancement when that was never in question is absurd.
As I said before your opinion on UKIP is irrelevant as it is based on your own deluded attempts to project your own bigotry towards them upon them. The only hatred I see is yours for UKIP. I think psychiatrists would call it 'transference' but I do not know sufficient about psychiatry to know exactly what condition it is symptomatic of........
We desperately need more immigrants for an aging population.
Someone has to pay the taxes.
What is it about Labour and their ponzi schemes?
Of course then that population ages and......?
Bloody clueless
You know rather than leaving a generation who preferred to sit at home rather than work for a living and importing new voters .... err workers .... your party could have done something more productive.
The Rochester by-election seems to have been going on forever, doesn't it? I'm bored with it and I don't even live there - what must voters feel like as the 97th leaflet comes through the door?
The fault is that the official campaign period has been extended. It will be the same at the general election.
How I loved the Eastleigh by-election and the sheer speed and intensity of it. Huhne please guilty on the the Monday am , resigns as an MP in the afternoon and the election takes place 3 weeks and 2 days later.
The quest is on: will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?
Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.
Does backbench dissent really wreck a party's polling figures?
Yes, because it reinforces the impression of lack of credibility.
ie If Labour MPs don't think he is good enough to be PM, then the public will be more likely to think he isn't good enough to be PM.
ERRR - Have you not seen how poorly the public rate him already?
Well now that King George A&E is closing and Harold Wood Hospital is closed altogether, you can imagine it hasnt got any better...
Oh and the council are selling the homes at Harold Wood, and it is rumoured St Georges, to house Newham overspill, so there will be tens of thousands more people to deal with
Grrreat
These people that are being pushed out are being displaced by all the money that is moving into Tower Hamlets, Hackney, Newham.
The smart money is moving into, not out of, London. It's a reversal of what used to be the norm.
The poorer people, whatever their heritage, have to move somewhere cheaper - i.e further away from London. An RM postcode is a lot cheaper than an E postcode.
When extreme right wing opportunists say they want the NHS to be more efficient they are happy to ignore the consequences - ie fewer but more efficiet hospitals and other forms of treatment. London has too many hospitals, which cost too much money... money that can be spent elsewhere. There are major reconfigurations going on all over London.
UKIP are the same as all the others, they talk the talk but when push comes to shove they take the easy expedient political line that might gain a few votes. Harold Wood Hospital was closed in 2006 it and Oldchurch was replaced by a new Queens Hospital costing 260 million.
This is a not uncommon process - in Oxford the Radcliffe Infirmary was closed and sold to the University and a new wing built at the John Radcliffe Hospital. I regularly visit an excellent new community hospital on a greenfield site in Berkshire.
The Rochester by-election seems to have been going on forever, doesn't it? I'm bored with it and I don't even live there - what must voters feel like as the 97th leaflet comes through the door?
The fault is that the official campaign period has been extended. It will be the same at the general election.
How I loved the Eastleigh by-election and the sheer speed and intensity of it. Huhne please guilty on the the Monday am , resigns as an MP in the afternoon and the election takes place 3 weeks and 2 days later.
So attempting to disenfranchise the voters of Eastleigh by limiting their opportunity to get to know the various candidates is acceptable because it's in your narrow partisan interest?
I see David Cameron has said that he would like to see an Asian PM. Well Dave, here's your chance - resign after you lose Rochester, and let Priti have the job. Sorted!
Oh, and all of these Blairites must be red raw from this day-long wankathon they've been indulging in. When will they just bugger off, and leave the party to us Labourites?
Labour really seem to be doing their best lately to make my 4 and half year prediction of a Labour Majority in 2015 look even more under threat. As with the rise of UKIP, Ed M's internal party problems are still not as bad as Cameron's (if not in satisfaction levels, then in openly malcontented MP levels at least), but his party appearing as divided as the Tories, coupled with the threat of the SNP, actually has a chance at cancelling out or at least equaling what had seemed to be the perfect storm of factors that were holding the Tories back.
Makes him sound desperate, but in all fairness Cameron's all but been on his hands and knees pleading with his plotters, and former party members, for several years, which is the only reason his weakness is not as newsworthy. Could be crucial for Ed M if the dissatisfaction with him is not peaking but is ready to roll on from now on though.
A friend of lives just outside Mevagissey - a lovely old harbour town with lots of beamed ale houses alongside chinking young-persons bars. Not the sort of place you'd imagine Labour to have any dealings with whatsoever. Did the other parties forget to make their submissions or something?
The Rochester by-election seems to have been going on forever, doesn't it? I'm bored with it and I don't even live there - what must voters feel like as the 97th leaflet comes through the door?
The fault is that the official campaign period has been extended. It will be the same at the general election.
How I loved the Eastleigh by-election and the sheer speed and intensity of it. Huhne please guilty on the the Monday am , resigns as an MP in the afternoon and the election takes place 3 weeks and 2 days later.
Have we forgotten postal votes, Mike?
Because of them, a lot of people voted before the campaign had begun.
So is there any real prospect of Labour backbenchers doing to Ed what the Tories did viz IDS and Michael Howard (ie forcing him to go and coalescing round a unity candidate) or is it too late to ditch him? The incentive for the would-be successor is huge - unlike Howard, he/she would more than likely become PM.
Oh, and all of these Blairites must be red raw from this day-long wankathon they've been indulging in. When will they just bugger off, and leave the party to us Labourites?
So is there any real prospect of Labour backbenchers doing to Ed what the Tories did viz IDS and Michael Howard (ie forcing him to go and coalescing round a unity candidate) or is it too late to ditch him? The incentive for the would-be successor is huge - unlike Howard, he/she would more than likely become PM.
And therein is the problem of a single candidate. They could be PM, so more than one would want the gig.
The second problem? Labour have a poor track record on recent leader coronations.
One possibility that has not yet occurred to folks is an amalgamation between the Lib Dems and the Greens and the SNP. It wouldn;t take much in the way of policy adjustment, the replacement of Clegg with Farron, and it's game on. This bloc could then hold the balance of power. UKIP would have missed their chance by playing the Green end of the policy spectrum wrongly. In fact is Roger Helmer in place to frustrate UKIP and ensure they remain in the doldrums?
Comments
I still haven't fully recovered from the flu which started a fortnight ago.
In 1997 Labour had 43% of the vote and the LDs 17%
In 2001 Labour had 41% of the vote and the LDs 18%
In 2005 Labour had 35% of the vote and LDs 22%.
I do not argue that the LDs were honest - I point out they were effective. If the tories could have offered a home for those voters who turned to the LDs, both in 2005 and 2010 things might have been different in both elections.
Meantime its UKIP now who are are pretending they can be all things to all men when the only thing in common is a hatred of foreigners and immigrants.
Something which ignores a more important social problem facing the UK.
http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/election-maps/gb/
I am hopeful Miliband has the intellectual self-confidence to stand firm against the capitalist pigdogs seeking to remove him from his rightful place as chairman.
Car crash in slow motion at its very best.
Tonight's by-elections:
Bilton (Rugby): CON def.
Mevagissey (Cornwall): LAB def.
You do know there are some Lab figures i detest more than Dave.
Blair and Milburn to name two.
Mevagissey is a genuine four way battle.
As I said before your opinion on UKIP is irrelevant as it is based on your own deluded attempts to project your own bigotry towards them upon them. The only hatred I see is yours for UKIP. I think psychiatrists would call it 'transference' but I do not know sufficient about psychiatry to know exactly what condition it is symptomatic of........
Mr. Owls, I was glad of the privatisation under Labour when I got to see the specialist I needed sooner than I otherwise would.
Didn't know they had any
Of course then that population ages and......?
Bloody clueless
You know rather than leaving a generation who preferred to sit at home rather than work for a living and importing new voters .... err workers .... your party could have done something more productive.
TM @IOS
(where is he by the way?)
How I loved the Eastleigh by-election and the sheer speed and intensity of it. Huhne please guilty on the the Monday am , resigns as an MP in the afternoon and the election takes place 3 weeks and 2 days later.
London has too many hospitals, which cost too much money... money that can be spent elsewhere. There are major reconfigurations going on all over London.
UKIP are the same as all the others, they talk the talk but when push comes to shove they take the easy expedient political line that might gain a few votes.
Harold Wood Hospital was closed in 2006 it and Oldchurch was replaced by a new Queens Hospital costing 260 million.
This is a not uncommon process - in Oxford the Radcliffe Infirmary was closed and sold to the University and a new wing built at the John Radcliffe Hospital. I regularly visit an excellent new community hospital on a greenfield site in Berkshire.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-29931269
Oh, and all of these Blairites must be red raw from this day-long wankathon they've been indulging in. When will they just bugger off, and leave the party to us Labourites?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-29944507
Another accidental discharge...
@SkyNews: TELEGRAPH FRONT PAGE: "Back me: Miliband's plea to plotters" #skypapers http://t.co/2Mn2KCS5Jo
Thanks for filling in for me!
A friend of lives just outside Mevagissey - a lovely old harbour town with lots of beamed ale houses alongside chinking young-persons bars. Not the sort of place you'd imagine Labour to have any dealings with whatsoever. Did the other parties forget to make their submissions or something?
Because of them, a lot of people voted before the campaign had begun.
NEW THREAD
The second problem? Labour have a poor track record on recent leader coronations.