politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The pressure on Ed Miliband – Marf gives her take
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The attactions of being first on this thread are less than the annoyance of being last on the previous one!0
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It's frustrating that internet advertising, unlike everything else on the internet, has scarcely improved over time, at least in terms of becoming less annoying.0
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Money isn't everything
Matthew Goodwin @GoodwinMJ · 46m46 minutes ago
Would you prefer a cut in tax you pay or cut in no. of migrants coming to Britain? All voters vs Ukip
Source: YouGov pic.twitter.com/EuEOVZ0ucC
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The quest is on:
will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?
Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.0 -
THinking about the latest Panelbase Scotland poll I have a hunch that the 14% Don't Know might well be "Shy Labour" who - when push come to shove - will troop out and vote Labour on the basis of Not Tory on the day.0
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I haven't had time to read the last thread, but the real question is "Who is trying to destabilise ED" ? If you exclude the Tories who want him in situ because he really is crap.. Who in Labour really wants ED out and who has most to gain?. Its not necessarily the same person ....
Who are the suspects in this drama?0 -
The thing here is that for the lowest paid, a fall in the number of immigrants would be the equivalent of a tax cutMorris_Dancer said:The quest is on:
will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?
Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.0 -
We desperately need more immigrants for an aging population.
Someone has to pay the taxes.0 -
Does backbench dissent really wreck a party's polling figures?Morris_Dancer said:The quest is on:
will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?
Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.
Having some difference of opinion in a party is a good thing.0 -
I fear that my knowledge of popular culture is insufficient for me to understand this cartoon.0
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Is that Salmond's effigy at the back?0
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Mr. Sulphate, if the dissent is the backbenchers trying to axe the leader, then yes.0
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You wait all summer for Ratty to reappear - and four turn up together.
Is this what Ed's pledges for a London-style bus service op north was all about?0 -
FPT:
You wouldn't be pedalling a conspiracy theory would you?Socrates said:It's funny how critics of Putin keep on dying suddenly before old age:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11212072/Russian-actor-and-Putin-critic-found-dead-in-Moscow.html0 -
What that massive quivering fat red blob?dr_spyn said:Is that Salmond's effigy at the back?
I don't see anything resembling that in the cartoon.0 -
I suspect, Richard, that the problem is you are too young!Richard_Nabavi said:I fear that my knowledge of popular culture is insufficient for me to understand this cartoon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krazy_Kat0 -
Why though? Labour would do far better with a different leader and everyone lining up behind him makes the whole party look like a joke.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Sulphate, if the dissent is the backbenchers trying to axe the leader, then yes.
Maybe I'm just allergic to the Blair presidential style where all dissent is suppressed.0 -
On your bike!Luckyguy1983 said:FPT:
You wouldn't be pedalling a conspiracy theory would you?Socrates said:It's funny how critics of Putin keep on dying suddenly before old age:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11212072/Russian-actor-and-Putin-critic-found-dead-in-Moscow.html0 -
From something I saw in the previous thread -can we nix this popular straw man about Kippers 'thinking everything will be fine if we can just leave the EU'. No-one thinks this. We don't think everything will be fine, but we do understand that we won't be able to start making things fine until we regain the crucial powers that currently reside with the EU.
What levers do Cameron and Ed is crap have at their disposal to transform this country's fortunes, even if they wanted to? Having a full number of digits doesn't make you a concert pianist -but you sure as sh*t won't become one if you only have one or two.0 -
Mr. Sulphate, a new leader would boost Labour, but bloodletting right before an election would not.0
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If I was Dave now I'd be telling my troops to STFU.
We don't want to get people feeling sorry for ed.0 -
Yes, because it reinforces the impression of lack of credibility.CopperSulphate said:
Does backbench dissent really wreck a party's polling figures?Morris_Dancer said:The quest is on:
will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?
Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.
ie If Labour MPs don't think he is good enough to be PM, then the public will be more likely to think he isn't good enough to be PM.
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Most seats market is getting closer:
Lab 1.88
Con 2.18
http://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/market?id=1.1014164730 -
Maybe, but the public punishes a divided party.CopperSulphate said:
Does backbench dissent really wreck a party's polling figures?Morris_Dancer said:The quest is on:
will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?
Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.
Having some difference of opinion in a party is a good thing.0 -
Is jackw an unnamed Labour MP?0
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I wonder if it is more that a party is divided when they are already doing badly in the polls.logical_song said:
Maybe, but the public punishes a divided party.CopperSulphate said:
Does backbench dissent really wreck a party's polling figures?Morris_Dancer said:The quest is on:
will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?
Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.
Having some difference of opinion in a party is a good thing.0 -
Mr. Taffys, it's an interesting point. Is Miliband being mocked constantly going to lead to contempt or pity?
I suspect the former.0 -
"Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 3h 3 hours ago
Panelbase Scottish poll has SNP with the 17% lead over LAB on Westminster voting. SNP 45 LAB 28 CON 15 UKIP 7 LD 3 GRN 1"
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB0 -
The Cameron inauthenticity problem in a nutshell.Dave can never be Nigel but he wants to.It makes Dave look like a one-term weakling.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/david-cameron-is-in-danger-of-becoming-a-poor-impression-of-nigel-farage-9844972.html0 -
The 'Prime Minister of In'? -bring it on I say.volcanopete said:The Cameron inauthenticity problem in a nutshell.Dave can never be Nigel but he wants to.It makes Dave look like a one-term weakling.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/david-cameron-is-in-danger-of-becoming-a-poor-impression-of-nigel-farage-9844972.html
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Defence by denial isn't usually a good plan and that's Ed's line. If he'd rounded upon them as anonymous cowards or some such he'd (in my view) be better off.
I think there is a degree that Labour is suffering from localism/devolution/whatever following the Scottish goings on - perhaps these NW MPs are disconnected from Ed's London mob (I know he's really from Doncaster North obviously). Some of the London mob must be in on this though - it's a BBC report!
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Three on the spin. A 39 point turnaround.AndyJS said:"Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 3h 3 hours ago
Panelbase Scottish poll has SNP with the 17% lead over LAB on Westminster voting. SNP 45 LAB 28 CON 15 UKIP 7 LD 3 GRN 1"
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB
Cameron and Miliband battling for most seats, not majorities.
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I thought someone said a Labour MP was mentioned on the BBC's World At One radio programme?0
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As a man from Kent, and not too distant from Edenbridge, I would like to say how proud I am of the burning of Barroso. His effigy that is....0
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Yeah, don't *wheel* that old claptrap out again Luckyguy...Ninoinoz said:
On your bike!Luckyguy1983 said:FPT:
You wouldn't be pedalling a conspiracy theory would you?Socrates said:It's funny how critics of Putin keep on dying suddenly before old age:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11212072/Russian-actor-and-Putin-critic-found-dead-in-Moscow.html
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Edenbridge burning Barroso:
Mr Mitchell said: "There were a lot of people who wanted us to burn Katie Hopkins again but she's put all that weight on so building her would have been a lot of extra work."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-299177790 -
Well no, clearly you can't.Luckyguy1983 said:From something I saw in the previous thread -can we nix this popular straw man about Kippers 'thinking everything will be fine if we can just leave the EU'. No-one thinks this. We don't think everything will be fine, but we do understand that we won't be able to start making things fine until we regain the crucial powers that currently reside with the EU.
What levers do Cameron and Ed is crap have at their disposal to transform this country's fortunes, even if they wanted to? Having a full number of digits doesn't make you a concert pianist -but you sure as sh*t won't become one if you only have one or two.0 -
I'm voting UKIP.
Grateful to Graham Harper and Rocky who created quite a stir on Rochester High Street today. Thank you both. pic.twitter.com/qB89BI6E5u
— Mark Reckless (@MarkReckless) November 6, 20140 -
YouGov/Sun poll tonight – Labour lead by one, Lib Dems and Greens tied on 7%: CON 32%, LAB 33%, LD 7%, UKIP 17%, GRN 7%0
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Was the C4 and BBC report a pooled effort - similar words, with both interviewing Soley.
Not sure that Ed does himself favours trotting out hackneyed phrases Costa Living Crisis, NHS...
Hostile press didn't ask Ed Miliband to drop coins in that beggar's cup. Their photos made him look like a tight wad, his actions made police, Big Issue and some Social Services angry.0 -
Quiet as a graveyard.
Tories appear to be campaigning in a graveyard in Chatham (in Rochester + Strood).Looks a bit desperate pic.twitter.com/Bb8biAjard
— Jason Groves (@JasonGroves1) November 4, 20140 -
The Lib Dems seemed to have kept a remarkable discipline despite atrocious poll ratings.CopperSulphate said:
I wonder if it is more that a party is divided when they are already doing badly in the polls.logical_song said:
Maybe, but the public punishes a divided party.CopperSulphate said:
Does backbench dissent really wreck a party's polling figures?Morris_Dancer said:The quest is on:
will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?
Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.
Having some difference of opinion in a party is a good thing.0 -
Any bets on how long it will be before a poll puts the Lib Dems in SIXTH place (behind the SNP)?0
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Character of leader does matter, Ben Page IPSOS Mori. News from Scotland chrystalised problem.
Ed M - image hapless. Almost impossible to zoom up the heights of popularity.0 -
The lowest paid are on the state regulated minimum wage. Fewer available workers to take the quite large increase in available jobs would cause inflation, probably an increase in union influence, production and service bottle necks and would impoverish us all.isam said:
The thing here is that for the lowest paid, a fall in the number of immigrants would be the equivalent of a tax cutMorris_Dancer said:The quest is on:
will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?
Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.
What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing.
To be fair 90% of new jobs created in 2013 were to UK nationals
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/13/uk-jobs-british-nationals-romanians-bulgarians0 -
MikeK said:
Quiet as a graveyard.
Tories appear to be campaigning in a graveyard in Chatham (in Rochester + Strood).Looks a bit desperate pic.twitter.com/Bb8biAjard
— Jason Groves (@JasonGroves1) November 4, 2014
There are long traditions of dead people voting, often several times!0 -
Love the fact they noticed the IPSOS MORI outlier, without mentioning all the YouGovs that show an increase in wanting out!volcanopete said:The Cameron inauthenticity problem in a nutshell.Dave can never be Nigel but he wants to.It makes Dave look like a one-term weakling.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/david-cameron-is-in-danger-of-becoming-a-poor-impression-of-nigel-farage-9844972.html
Cue "IPSOS MORI were the most accurate at counting flies on the wall at the last PB meet etc tec"0 -
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Chris Blackhurst thinks "only the more extreme folk of Kent" will enjoy the Barroso-burning.
Smug London bubble-dweller alert.
His piece is predicated around the outlier Mori poll.
Oh well, no one reads the Independent anyway.
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Reckless empty chaired at the hustings
Very "new politics"0 -
MikeK said:
I'm voting UKIP.
Grateful to Graham Harper and Rocky who created quite a stir on Rochester High Street today. Thank you both. pic.twitter.com/qB89BI6E5u
— Mark Reckless (@MarkReckless) November 6, 2014
Is that you Weathercock
? 0 -
Is that you WeathercockPulpstar said:MikeK said:I'm voting UKIP.
Grateful to Graham Harper and Rocky who created quite a stir on Rochester High Street today. Thank you both. pic.twitter.com/qB89BI6E5u
— Mark Reckless (@MarkReckless) November 6, 2014 ?
Who's Weathercock? (innocent face)0 -
Just been watching old TTOI episodes. The LotO practices walking at the Cenotaph, then is defenestrated in a back bench coup.
Absurdest fantasy...0 -
Sorry I meant with posters not trolls. -You can obviously continue as you wish.Flightpath said:
Well no, clearly you can't.Luckyguy1983 said:From something I saw in the previous thread -can we nix this popular straw man about Kippers 'thinking everything will be fine if we can just leave the EU'. No-one thinks this. We don't think everything will be fine, but we do understand that we won't be able to start making things fine until we regain the crucial powers that currently reside with the EU.
What levers do Cameron and Ed is crap have at their disposal to transform this country's fortunes, even if they wanted to? Having a full number of digits doesn't make you a concert pianist -but you sure as sh*t won't become one if you only have one or two.
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"What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing"Flightpath said:
The lowest paid are on the state regulated minimum wage. Fewer available workers to take the quite large increase in available jobs would cause inflation, probably an increase in union influence, production and service bottle necks and would impoverish us all.isam said:
The thing here is that for the lowest paid, a fall in the number of immigrants would be the equivalent of a tax cutMorris_Dancer said:The quest is on:
will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?
Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.
What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing.
To be fair 90% of new jobs created in 2013 were to UK nationals
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/13/uk-jobs-british-nationals-romanians-bulgarians
Yes I agree
But more jobs are being dragged down to minimum wage level by economic migrants
I freely confess this is a protectionist move, and I dont care if UKIP used to be a free market libertarian rah rah rah party
I have always been a Labour voter, and motivated by getting the best deal for the lowest paid.. If that means stifling foreign competition, and I think that is the best way, then so be it
Its better for the poor of this country to have the chance to earn a decent wage without competition rather than be propped up by state benefits.. They're being propped up either way, but at least this way they are working and learning
By all means have foreign competetiton in highly skilled jobs.. same as the old system in football.. only the best can come and play here... the journeymen can stay in their own country and our kids will learn on the job
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Its not contempt or pity, weird Ed has become a figure of fun.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Taffys, it's an interesting point. Is Miliband being mocked constantly going to lead to contempt or pity?
I suspect the former.
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Mr. Pulpstar, huzzah!
Nobody bleated when Cameron et al. got burnt. 'tis a victory over the desperately offended.0 -
Whoever complained should be charged with wasting police time.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, huzzah!
Nobody bleated when Cameron et al. got burnt. 'tis a victory over the desperately offended.0 -
But given you're a self-employed publisher and author, why aren't you getting the same support that a self-employed Big Issue seller does?Morris_Dancer said:The quest is on:
will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?
Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.0 -
UKIP and the Countryside.
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/531907/Ukip-to-win-rural-countryside-vote-next-election0 -
My local Conservative MP sent a leaflet round this week boasting of how "Queens Hospital is under new management and already has record levels of Doctors and Nurses to care for patients"
But no beds for sick children
http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/health/pictured_boy_with_broken_arm_uses_floor_for_bed_at_busy_queen_s_hospital_1_38359700 -
Romford NHS has always been rubbish.isam said:My local Conservative MP sent a leaflet round this week boasting of how "Queens Hospital is under new management and already has record levels of Doctors and Nurses to care for patients"
But no beds for sick children
http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/health/pictured_boy_with_broken_arm_uses_floor_for_bed_at_busy_queen_s_hospital_1_38359700 -
It was probably Salmond. He completely misjudged in taking offence.Pulpstar said:
Whoever complained should be charged with wasting police time.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, huzzah!
Nobody bleated when Cameron et al. got burnt. 'tis a victory over the desperately offended.
Mr Salmond responded to the initial tweet by telling BBC Scotland he was "used to insults from Tories in East Sussex".
No one likes people who can't take a joke. Would he have got on his high horse if an effigy of Cameron was being put on a pyre in Edinburgh?0 -
At the risk of taking you literally...Luckyguy1983 said:
Having a full number of digits doesn't make you a concert pianist -but you sure as sh*t won't become one if you only have one or two.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO2Aq0sEf88
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@faisalislam: ..@KellyTolhurst: "@markreckless hasn't turned up because the candidate for Labour and Conservatives are two strong women and he was scared"0
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“O, wad some Power the giftie gie usMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, huzzah!
Nobody bleated when Cameron et al. got burnt. 'tis a victory over the desperately offended.
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion.”
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Well now that King George A&E is closing and Harold Wood Hospital is closed altogether, you can imagine it hasnt got any better...chestnut said:
Romford NHS has always been rubbish.isam said:My local Conservative MP sent a leaflet round this week boasting of how "Queens Hospital is under new management and already has record levels of Doctors and Nurses to care for patients"
But no beds for sick children
http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/health/pictured_boy_with_broken_arm_uses_floor_for_bed_at_busy_queen_s_hospital_1_3835970
Oh and the council are selling the homes at Harold Wood, and it is rumoured St Georges, to house Newham overspill, so there will be tens of thousands more people to deal with
Grrreat0 -
Mr. Charles, one waits with bated breath to see what Miliband's conference speech pledge of more help for the self-employed will be.
Incidentally, if anyone wants to both help a self-employed chap and get themselves an absurdly good bargain, do feel free to browse my wares here (available elsewhere, notably Smashwords, but I know most use Amazon):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thaddeus-White/e/B008C6RU98/
Been a dry year, but hoping to get Kingdom Asunder out in 2015, as well as (potentially) several short stories [though anthologies can be delayed because of the large number involved], and another project that sci-fi fans may enjoy.0 -
Burning effigies of those who seek authority over them is a favorite pastime of Kentishmen (and South Saxons*) of all persuasions, I thoughtKentRising said:Chris Blackhurst thinks "only the more extreme folk of Kent" will enjoy the Barroso-burning.
Smug London bubble-dweller alert.
His piece is predicated around the outlier Mori poll.
Oh well, no one reads the Independent anyway.
*but they don't really count0 -
This is why Labour MPs are in despair about Ed...
@ezraklein: Every losing Democratic Senate candidate was more popular than Obama: http://t.co/e92NRlUzaG
He is going to cost them their seats0 -
Bless her -how wonderful. She has four digits, but I'll allow it.Charles said:
At the risk of taking you literally...Luckyguy1983 said:
Having a full number of digits doesn't make you a concert pianist -but you sure as sh*t won't become one if you only have one or two.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO2Aq0sEf88
We could continue the analogy further, and say even with the limited powers at their disposal, a really great and utterly determined Government could turn things around within the EU. Sadly, the direction of travel is such that staying in still seems to be a dead end to me.
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Been to Dirty Ducks for a not so dry run0
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FPT
@OldKingCole
Indeed I have some sympathy for Clegg. Nice lad even if he was an arsonist but absolutely hopeless when it comes to policy (that HoL reform was a mess). After all he got dealt a lousy hand. Huhne, Cable. Oakeshott, Tonge, Opek, Baker, Browne, Laws, Davey, Featherstone, Teather, Rennard, Hancock, Alexander, Ashdown.
No wonder the poor sod is so unpopular trying to make even a sow's ear let alone a silk purse out of that worthless rabble!0 -
@Flightpath
Your Iraq war theory is cobblers because three quarters of those voters who left Blair left before the 2001 election when Iraq wasn't even contemplated
The Libdems won votes off Labour by pretending to be left wing. That's why those votes returned to Labour as soon as the Libdems got into bed with the 'centreist' Tories. Funny that isn't it? First they are repelled by 'centreist' Blair and then they are repelled by Centreist Cameron and you think those voters are centreists?
And if the centreist Libdems were so succesful in their centreism do tell how they rarely win 10% of the vote share these days in polls and hanging on to their deposit is now considered an event to celebrate at by elections?
As for your opinion of UKIP, given your narrow minded bigoted view of them you'll understand if i respond in this way.........
You really do talk bollocks!0 -
Ditto. Mine was so poor they bought me S1 of Friends a decade ago. I still haven't broken the seal.Richard_Nabavi said:
I fear that my knowledge of popular culture is insufficient for me to understand this cartoon.
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I had my £9.99 gym bag with me so definitely not part of TSE's metropolitan elite. Been to Tooting managed to resist shouting power to the. people0
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These people that are being pushed out are being displaced by all the money that is moving into Tower Hamlets, Hackney, Newham.isam said:Well now that King George A&E is closing and Harold Wood Hospital is closed altogether, you can imagine it hasnt got any better...
Oh and the council are selling the homes at Harold Wood, and it is rumoured St Georges, to house Newham overspill, so there will be tens of thousands more people to deal with
Grrreat
The smart money is moving into, not out of, London. It's a reversal of what used to be the norm.
The poorer people, whatever their heritage, have to move somewhere cheaper - i.e further away from London. An RM postcode is a lot cheaper than an E postcode.
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Dirty Dicks that should bebigjohnowls said:Been to Dirty Ducks for a not so dry run
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Yes you are right.. I think that is what will win Hornchurch & Upminster for UKIP next Maychestnut said:
These people that are being pushed out are being displaced by all the money that is moving into Tower Hamlets, Hackney, Newham.isam said:Well now that King George A&E is closing and Harold Wood Hospital is closed altogether, you can imagine it hasnt got any better...
Oh and the council are selling the homes at Harold Wood, and it is rumoured St Georges, to house Newham overspill, so there will be tens of thousands more people to deal with
Grrreat
The smart money is moving into, not out of, London. It's a reversal of what used to be the norm.
The poorer people, whatever their heritage, have to move somewhere cheaper - i.e further away from London. An RM postcode is a lot cheaper than an E postcode.
Hospitals are being demolished, and built on to house overspill from the places you mention... it isn't going down well
The conservative council approved the developments, and Boris ignored the petitions
http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/boris_snub_is_such_an_insult_claims_harold_wood_residents_1_778766
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I prefer to see people in a job than on the dole. Its a triumph of hope over expectation to think that this process will be easy and that people can move into generously paid jobs.isam said:
"What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing"Flightpath said:
The lowest paid are on the state regulated minimum wage. Fewer available workers to take the quite large increase in available jobs would cause inflation, probably an increase in union influence, production and service bottle necks and would impoverish us all.isam said:
The thing here is that for the lowest paid, a fall in the number of immigrants would be the equivalent of a tax cutMorris_Dancer said:The quest is on:
will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?
Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.
What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing.
To be fair 90% of new jobs created in 2013 were to UK nationals
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/13/uk-jobs-british-nationals-romanians-bulgarians
Yes I agree
But more jobs are being dragged down to minimum wage level by economic migrants
I freely confess this is a protectionist move, and I dont care if UKIP used to be a free market libertarian rah rah rah party
I have always been a Labour voter, and motivated by getting the best deal for the lowest paid.. If that means stifling foreign competition, and I think that is the best way, then so be it
Its better for the poor of this country to have the chance to earn a decent wage without competition rather than be propped up by state benefits.. They're being propped up either way, but at least this way they are working and learning
By all means have foreign competetiton in highly skilled jobs.. same as the old system in football.. only the best can come and play here... the journeymen can stay in their own country and our kids will learn on the job
You neatly illustrate the schism amongst the UKIP collective. In truth there is a massive split in purpose between its supporters.
The recent report by the way - pretty well argued and researched - pointed out that EU migrants have contributed £20 billion in taxes over the amount that they claimed or consumed. The figure for native Brits in the same period was minus £617 billion. Consumers are getting a good deal from overseas workers whether they are migrants from the EU or hard pressed labour in China.
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He certainly does. I voted LD in 2005 because of Iraqmanofkent2014 said:@Flightpath
Your Iraq war theory is cobblers because three quarters of those voters who left Blair left before the 2001 election when Iraq wasn't even contemplated
The Libdems won votes off Labour by pretending to be left wing. That's why those votes returned to Labour as soon as the Libdems got into bed with the 'centreist' Tories. Funny that isn't it? First they are repelled by 'centreist' Blair and then they are repelled by Centreist Cameron and you think those voters are centreists?
And if the centreist Libdems were so succesful in their centreism do tell how they rarely win 10% of the vote share these days in polls and hanging on to their deposit is now considered an event to celebrate at by elections?
As for your opinion of UKIP, given your narrow minded bigoted view of them you'll understand if i respond in this way.........
You really do talk bollocks!0 -
I see UKIP's Mr Reckless has bottled it tonight.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 22m22 minutes ago Rochester, South East
..@KellyTolhurst: "@markreckless hasn't turned up because the candidate for Labour and Conservatives are two strong women and he was scared"0 -
Who are the Lab MPs who have commented today?0
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John. We actual "gather" on the first floor right at the back of the pub beyond the restaurant. It's usually very crowed and people have been known to miss it entirely.bigjohnowls said:
Dirty Dicks that should bebigjohnowls said:Been to Dirty Ducks for a not so dry run
The slim-line man we know as Fat Steve usually arranges a special area which works well. Hope uoi can make an good to see Isam and others again.
0 -
Reckless or Gutless?0
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" EU migrants have contributed £20 billion in taxes over the amount that they claimed or consumed. The figure for native Brits in the same period was minus £617 billion"Flightpath said:
I prefer to see people in a job than on the dole. Its a triumph of hope over expectation to think that this process will be easy and that people can move into generously paid jobs.isam said:
"What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing"Flightpath said:isam said:
The thing here is that for the lowest paid, a fall in the number of immigrants would be the equivalent of a tax cutMorris_Dancer said:The quest is on:
will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?
Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.
Yes I agree
But more jobs are being dragged down to minimum wage level by economic migrants
I freely confess this is a protectionist move, and I dont care if UKIP used to be a free market libertarian rah rah rah party
I have always been a Labour voter, and motivated by getting the best deal for the lowest paid.. If that means stifling foreign competition, and I think that is the best way, then so be it
Its better for the poor of this country to have the chance to earn a decent wage without competition rather than be propped up by state benefits.. They're being propped up either way, but at least this way they are working and learning
By all means have foreign competetiton in highly skilled jobs.. same as the old system in football.. only the best can come and play here... the journeymen can stay in their own country and our kids will learn on the job
You neatly illustrate the schism amongst the UKIP collective. In truth there is a massive split in purpose between its supporters.
The recent report by the way - pretty well argued and researched - pointed out that EU migrants have contributed £20 billion in taxes over the amount that they claimed or consumed. The figure for native Brits in the same period was minus £617 billion. Consumers are getting a good deal from overseas workers whether they are migrants from the EU or hard pressed labour in China.
That's the point I am making.. the economic boost from EU migrants is paying for the people they replace to be on the dole... a false economy with added social misery...The government are meant to look out for these people not ruin them0 -
''In truth there is a massive split in purpose between its supporters.''
Most are far more worried about what goes on in Rotherham than strasbourg.
EU related immigration has always been a pretty positive thing in my book. Non EU immigration is a far, far more mixed bag.
no politician, not even UKIP, have the courage to say this.0 -
I quit the party because of Iraq in 2004 (and NHS privatisation).bigjohnowls said:
He certainly does. I voted LD in 2005 because of Iraqmanofkent2014 said:@Flightpath
Your Iraq war theory is cobblers because three quarters of those voters who left Blair left before the 2001 election when Iraq wasn't even contemplated
The Libdems won votes off Labour by pretending to be left wing. That's why those votes returned to Labour as soon as the Libdems got into bed with the 'centreist' Tories. Funny that isn't it? First they are repelled by 'centreist' Blair and then they are repelled by Centreist Cameron and you think those voters are centreists?
And if the centreist Libdems were so succesful in their centreism do tell how they rarely win 10% of the vote share these days in polls and hanging on to their deposit is now considered an event to celebrate at by elections?
As for your opinion of UKIP, given your narrow minded bigoted view of them you'll understand if i respond in this way.........
You really do talk bollocks!
0 -
Would be great if that was actually the reason he gaveMikeSmithson said:I see UKIP's Mr Reckless has bottled it tonight.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 22m22 minutes ago Rochester, South East
..@KellyTolhurst: "@markreckless hasn't turned up because the candidate for Labour and Conservatives are two strong women and he was scared"
Carswell didn't go to the first one in Clacton, didn't work out too bad0 -
yes why don't we just keep borrowing a la Osborne and let non-brits do all the work, it's called conservatism.Flightpath said:
I prefer to see people in a job than on the dole. Its a triumph of hope over expectation to think that this process will be easy and that people can move into generously paid jobs.isam said:
"What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing"Flightpath said:
The lowest paid are on the state regulated minimum wage. Fewer available workers to take the quite large increase in available jobs would cause inflation, probably an increase in union influence, production and service bottle necks and would impoverish us all.isam said:
The thing here is that for the lowest paid, a fall in the number of immigrants would be the equivalent of a tax cutMorris_Dancer said:The quest is on:
will Conservative backbenchers manage to screw their chances by trying to axe Cameron before Labour backbenchers can damage their party beyond repair by briefing so much against Miliband it drives their polling through the floor?
Mr. Isam, money's much like oxygen - it's importance becomes apparent when your supply is insufficient for your needs.
What the UK needs is an increase in the quality and motivation of the available UK born workfoce such as would make them worth employing.
To be fair 90% of new jobs created in 2013 were to UK nationals
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/13/uk-jobs-british-nationals-romanians-bulgarians
Yes I agree
But more jobs are being dragged down to minimum wage level by economic migrants
can stay in their own country and our kids will learn on the job
You neatly illustrate the schism amongst the UKIP collective. In truth there is a massive split in purpose between its supporters.
The recent report by the way - pretty well argued and researched - pointed out that EU migrants have contributed £20 billion in taxes over the amount that they claimed or consumed. The figure for native Brits in the same period was minus £617 billion. Consumers are getting a good deal from overseas workers whether they are migrants from the EU or hard pressed labour in China.0 -
I think you're being unfair on Mr Reckless, Mike. I imagine he was ordered not to attend by the UKIP leadership. The two women would have confronted him with no end of Bloomite sexist quotations, and the poor man would have been squirming on his seat. Not a pretty spectacle. Good politics by UKIP to keep a lid on that sort of thing.MikeSmithson said:I see UKIP's Mr Reckless has bottled it tonight.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 22m22 minutes ago Rochester, South East
..@KellyTolhurst: "@markreckless hasn't turned up because the candidate for Labour and Conservatives are two strong women and he was scared"0 -
The government are meant to look out for these people not ruin them
Wages might rise initially after we restricted EU immigration, but soon companies would move abroad in search of the low wages than still exist in many places.
And that so instead of earning low wages many in the UK would be looking at the dole queue.
Its not nice, but that's globalisation for you.0 -
Ah thanks!MikeSmithson said:
John. We actual "gather" on the first floor right at the back of the pub beyond the restaurant. It's usually very crowed and people have been known to miss it entirely.bigjohnowls said:
Dirty Dicks that should bebigjohnowls said:Been to Dirty Ducks for a not so dry run
The slim-line man we know as Fat Steve usually arranges a special area which works well. Hope uoi can make an good to see Isam and others again.0 -
Bit of a shittter that LD votes enabled the coalition to accelerate the latter then?foxinsoxuk said:
I quit the party because of Iraq in 2004 (and NHS privatisation).bigjohnowls said:
He certainly does. I voted LD in 2005 because of Iraqmanofkent2014 said:@Flightpath
Your Iraq war theory is cobblers because three quarters of those voters who left Blair left before the 2001 election when Iraq wasn't even contemplated
The Libdems won votes off Labour by pretending to be left wing. That's why those votes returned to Labour as soon as the Libdems got into bed with the 'centreist' Tories. Funny that isn't it? First they are repelled by 'centreist' Blair and then they are repelled by Centreist Cameron and you think those voters are centreists?
And if the centreist Libdems were so succesful in their centreism do tell how they rarely win 10% of the vote share these days in polls and hanging on to their deposit is now considered an event to celebrate at by elections?
As for your opinion of UKIP, given your narrow minded bigoted view of them you'll understand if i respond in this way.........
You really do talk bollocks!0 -
It was incredibly busy tonight. Didn't venture upstairs though.MikeSmithson said:
John. We actual "gather" on the first floor right at the back of the pub beyond the restaurant. It's usually very crowed and people have been known to miss it entirely.bigjohnowls said:
Dirty Dicks that should bebigjohnowls said:Been to Dirty Ducks for a not so dry run
The slim-line man we know as Fat Steve usually arranges a special area which works well. Hope uoi can make an good to see Isam and others again.
Looking forward to it.0 -
Mr. Owls, video on the NHS (including a spot on privatisation) here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lM69zmUHfc0
