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Exactly my thoughts on reading that piece (amongst others).volcanopete said:Jim Murphy has got the backing of the Spectator-Andrew Neil and associates.I wonder how this important right wing backing will play in Scotland with Labour under the accusation of being red Tories and London based.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/politics/9355852/scotland-needs-jim-murphy-even-if-he-doesnt-want-to-go-back-there/
Especially after Mr M's been one of the very few SLAB activists to campaign at all consistently and publicly alongside Mr Darling and the Tories in indyref. If you are going to vote against anyone for Tory-hugging, or because you voted Yes, then it's going to affect him more than anyone else.
How far that offsets those who give him an extra mark for his activity is going to be a key issue in this election - never mind the public ones in 2015 and 2016.0 -
There is a lot of resentment in Africa regarding the Chinese policy of non-recruitment of local labour. Contrary to the practice of many other contractors, the Chinese bring in all their own Chinese labour required for the project instead of using local labour.Socrates said:
Today, Zambia is Africa’s biggest producer of copper and China is one of the world’s hungriest consumers of it, and relations between the two are increasingly bitter, as local people struggle to compete against a huge influx of Chinese businesses and unskilled labourPaul_Mid_Beds said:
[on Farm seizures] ‘What has happened is very cruel and nasty and doesn’t reflect well on anybody. But it is worth trying to understand what is happening, rather than saying it’s the lunatic act of one man. It’s not.’
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/7699583/dr-scott-i-presume/
Those Zambians sound awfully racist. Why aren't they celebrating the cultural diversity in food and music that the Chinese immigrants have brought to their country?0 -
I worked there for a few months in 2011, but that was before they legalised cannabis.AndyJS said:
Not sure what I'd do if I ever find myself in Colorado where they've legalised cannabis. Probably still wouldn't take it because of the recent reports on the negative effects of the drug.SimonStClare said:
Ditto - However, I’m always fascinated by these druggy discussions that crop up on PB from time to time, but rarely contribute as I have no personal or social anecdotal stories to add.AndyJS said:
Never used any recreational drugs. Might have done as a teenager if someone had offered me some.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:I wonder how many PBers have ever used drugs?
With the notable exception of Sean T who has been remarkably open about his past.
I got through plenty of class a's during my raving days of 88-96.
After that was a daily weed smoker until early last year when I finally quit.
I must confess that I even attended a number of PB drinks do's when absolutely flying.
Unadventurous maybe, but no regrets either - Indulging, especially with the harder drugs has always struck me as a game of Russian roulette, some live to tell the tale, some don’t.0 -
Welcome to pb.com, Mr. Camel. Dare I ask if you're Bactrian?0
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I was in social set that used them a lot - especially speed/LSD. After giving cannabis a reluctant try as I find stoners very dull company - and knowing the odd effect on me - I had no trouble in saying No Thanks. I wasn't seen as puritanical, just someone who didn't feel better and no one tried to persuade me.
I don't smoke either - just doesn't appeal. I'd like to have tried Ecstasy, but was too chicken at the time. Amyl nitrate [think that was it] was very popular in my teens. Now that really does make me horny and reckless, so I wouldn't go anywhere near it again.SimonStClare said:
Ditto - However, I’m always fascinated by these druggy discussions that crop up on PB from time to time, but rarely contribute as I have no personal or social anecdotal stories to add.AndyJS said:
Never used any recreational drugs. Might have done as a teenager if someone had offered me some.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:I wonder how many PBers have ever used drugs?
With the notable exception of Sean T who has been remarkably open about his past.
I got through plenty of class a's during my raving days of 88-96.
After that was a daily weed smoker until early last year when I finally quit.
I must confess that I even attended a number of PB drinks do's when absolutely flying.
Unadventurous maybe, but no regrets either - Indulging, especially with the harder drugs has always struck me as a game of Russian roulette, some live to tell the tale, some don’t.0 -
I've got the hump. Don't make me any angrier.Morris_Dancer said:Welcome to pb.com, Mr. Camel. Dare I ask if you're Bactrian?
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Yes, that's the PO's equivalency.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Carnyx, I would've thrown her out, had I been presiding officer (assuming that's the Holyrood equivalent of Speaker).
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It's not easy obviously, but I would say look at what people who have got heavily into drugs and suffered as a result recommendMarkHopkins said:iSam
I do see where you're coming from and accept your experience in these drug issues.
But.... if prohibition is so successful, why did America repeal it when it failed with alcohol?
Another example is that some argue that boxing is dangerous and damages lives, but it's better to have it legal and with proper safeguards rather than driven underground.
Shouldn't the same apply to recreational drugs?
(Just asking, unsure myself).
Total abstinence
Why wait until kids are messed up? This is what I don't understand with Russell brand... He preaches and lives by total abstinence, yet wants drug laws relaxed
I say would you rather your kids were so frightened if the punishment for being caught with drugs that they never took them or that they had a friendly drug counsellor in rehab?
As for prohibition, I don't knew the answer... Certainly the increased availability of alcohol hasn't worked here...
Boxing... Well if it wasn't legal it probably wouldn't be legalised... This is the point I am making really... People saying other drugs are no worse than alcohol so should be legalised are effectively arguing that dog fighting should be legalised because it's safer than the illegal dog fighting governed by criminals that we currently have. They could point to boxing as pro drug lobby do with Alcohol0 -
Western civilization was founded on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are the holy trinity of human progress.0
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A couple of points.
The Harman t-shirt thing seems to be a very trivial thing to get worried about.
Does iSamuel drink?0 -
Mr. Scout, not worried, just annoyed.
Mr. Camel, I was just asking. Camelry were used by the Romans, you know.
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/animals-in-ancient-warfare.html0 -
O/T:
Does anyone know why you can't sign into Vanilla on Safari? Just tried to do it in an Apple Shop. Usually I use Chrome.0 -
I thought it was founded on slavery?MonikerDiCanio said:Western civilization was founded on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are the holy trinity of human progress.
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I'm not confusing you with anyone I know that you are the same person behind Bobafett bobajob etcThe_Last_Boy_Scout said:Isam - You are confusing me with another poster again. Why was my analogy nonsebse by the way?
Your analogy was nonsense because you are making the old mistake of pretending that only the user is affected by the effects of their drug taking0 -
I find that if I click on a poster's name, I can sign into Vanilla on Safari that way, but that I can't do so directly on the normal pb page.AndyJS said:O/T:
Does anyone know why you can't sign into Vanilla on Safari? Just tried to do it in an Apple Shop. Usually I use Chrome.0 -
What has it got to do with you bobajob? I may take drugs for all it matters, I could still say they should remain illegal and that they do untold damageThe_Last_Boy_Scout said:A couple of points.
The Harman t-shirt thing seems to be a very trivial thing to get worried about.
Does iSamuel drink?0 -
@MonikerDiCanio
And a whole bunch of interesting plants and fungi, a good book on herbalism and "witchcraft" is fun to take on a country walk.0 -
The_Last_Boy_Scout said:
Isam - You are confusing me with another poster again. Why was my analogy nonsebse by the way?
Other regulars have suggested the same (Neil is as far from Sam as you can get politically I think...)
"Neil Posts: 6,438
June 16
BobaFett said:
@isam
Am I Tim, Bobajob, the Last Boy Scout or someone else? I lose track with you as you have suggested I am all and none of them over the years ;-)
Two out of three aint bad. "
In fairness to @isam Bobafett/Bobajobb's activity period and your own do make it look a bit Bruce Wayne/Batman / Clarke Kent/Supermanish....
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/profile/790/BobaFett
Username BobaFett Joined February 27
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/profile/736/TheLastBoyScout
Last Active February 27
I wouldn't mind if @PBModerator or @Rcs1000 can clear it up (He can do reverse? dns lookups iirc)0 -
I see the narrative of "brave" Murphy standing up to the evil nationalist fascists who say mean things is strong in the Spectator. One egg, but for that one egg and no-one would have had any idea what it was Murphy had done in those hundred days at all.Carnyx said:
Exactly my thoughts on reading that piece (amongst others).volcanopete said:Jim Murphy has got the backing of the Spectator-Andrew Neil and associates.I wonder how this important right wing backing will play in Scotland with Labour under the accusation of being red Tories and London based.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/politics/9355852/scotland-needs-jim-murphy-even-if-he-doesnt-want-to-go-back-there/
Especially after Mr M's been one of the very few SLAB activists to campaign at all consistently and publicly alongside Mr Darling and the Tories in indyref. If you are going to vote against anyone for Tory-hugging, or because you voted Yes, then it's going to affect him more than anyone else.
How far that offsets those who give him an extra mark for his activity is going to be a key issue in this election - never mind the public ones in 2015 and 2016.0 -
Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Pulpstar, not sure trying to run someone off the road with a truck and kill them counts as 'outwitting' them. Reminds me of an appallingly bad piece by Jon Simpson[sp] who said something similar when Mugabe rigged the election and (ahem) won.
It's not out-manoeuvring someone with cunning and wit when you're a dictator and rig the system.
John Simpson has form. Back in 1991 ha described Saddam's Iraq as a not altogether unpleasant place, with images of a nightclub. I am sure it had some positives. But imagine had he said that of 1930s Germany...0 -
The unstimulated slave empires of antiquity argue against your thesis.david_herdson said:
I thought it was founded on slavery?MonikerDiCanio said:Western civilization was founded on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are the holy trinity of human progress.
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It's called free will. I don't like the X Factor but wouldn't ban something that others do enjoy just because I don't. Ok, trivial example but makes the point.isam said:
It's not easy obviously, but I would say look at what people who have got heavily into drugs and suffered as a result recommendMarkHopkins said:iSam
I do see where you're coming from and accept your experience in these drug issues.
But.... if prohibition is so successful, why did America repeal it when it failed with alcohol?
Another example is that some argue that boxing is dangerous and damages lives, but it's better to have it legal and with proper safeguards rather than driven underground.
Shouldn't the same apply to recreational drugs?
(Just asking, unsure myself).
Total abstinence
Why wait until kids are messed up? This is what I don't understand with Russell brand... He preaches and lives by total abstinence, yet wants drug laws relaxed
If people have the information on which to base a judgement, the capacity to make one, and are willing to accept the consequences of that decision, it's no business of the state to get involved beyond reasonable regulation and taxation unless third parties may be affected.
I'd rather they didn't take them because they understood the negative health consequences, not because they lived in fear of arrest and imprisonment.isam said:I say would you rather your kids were so frightened if the punishment for being caught with drugs that they never took them or that they had a friendly drug counsellor in rehab?
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Would it make a difference if no posts had any sort of name attached?isam said:
I'm not confusing you with anyone I know that you are the same person behind Bobafett bobajob etcThe_Last_Boy_Scout said:Isam - You are confusing me with another poster again. Why was my analogy nonsebse by the way?
If something is nonsense it is nonsense regardless of which nonsensical poster wrote it, so identity is rather superfluous.0 -
Socrates said:
I just look forward to Channel 4's mockumentary on what will happen to energy supply in this country when Ed Miliband tries to cap prices, ramp up renewable requirements and limits government spending at the same time.anotherDave said:
I'm sure it will be a scrupulously fair representation of UKIP's goals.isam said:Channel 4 to show a mockumentary about Ukip running the country in the lead up to the GE
Same people who did 'Tony Blair on Trial'
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/oct/30/nigel-farage-ukip-documentary-spoof-channel-4
You forgot how letting in another 3m Labour voting immigrants will affect housing, education and the NHS.0 -
Is Reggie having identity problems again?Pulpstar said:The_Last_Boy_Scout said:
Isam - You are confusing me with another poster again. Why was my analogy nonsebse by the way?
Other regulars have suggested the same (Neil is as far from Sam as you can get politically I think...)
"Neil Posts: 6,438
June 16
BobaFett said:
@isam
Am I Tim, Bobajob, the Last Boy Scout or someone else? I lose track with you as you have suggested I am all and none of them over the years ;-)
Two out of three aint bad. "
In fairness to @isam Bobafett/Bobajobb's activity period and your own do make it look a bit Bruce Wayne/Batman / Clarke Kent/Supermanish....
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/profile/790/BobaFett
Username BobaFett Joined February 27
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/profile/736/TheLastBoyScout
Last Active February 27
I wouldn't mind if @PBModerator or @Rcs1000 can clear it up (He can do reverse? dns lookups iirc)0 -
Sunil_Prasannan said:
I worked there for a few months in 2011, but that was before they legalised cannabis.AndyJS said:
Not sure what I'd do if I ever find myself in Colorado where they've legalised cannabis. Probably still wouldn't take it because of the recent reports on the negative effects of the drug.SimonStClare said:
Ditto - However, I’m always fascinated by these druggy discussions that crop up on PB from time to time, but rarely contribute as I have no personal or social anecdotal stories to add.AndyJS said:
Never used any recreational drugs. Might have done as a teenager if someone had offered me some.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:I wonder how many PBers have ever used drugs?
With the notable exception of Sean T who has been remarkably open about his past.
I got through plenty of class a's during my raving days of 88-96.
After that was a daily weed smoker until early last year when I finally quit.
I must confess that I even attended a number of PB drinks do's when absolutely flying.
Unadventurous maybe, but no regrets either - Indulging, especially with the harder drugs has always struck me as a game of Russian roulette, some live to tell the tale, some don’t.
Did working there tempt you to use cannabis?!
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@MonikerDiCanio
The Romans were big on Aminita Muscaria, and would quite often give it to their slaves.
One of our classicists will fill you in on the details.0 -
It isn't in question.Pulpstar said:The_Last_Boy_Scout said:
Isam - You are confusing me with another poster again. Why was my analogy nonsebse by the way?
Other regulars have suggested the same (Neil is as far from Sam as you can get politically I think...)
"Neil Posts: 6,438
June 16
BobaFett said:
@isam
Am I Tim, Bobajob, the Last Boy Scout or someone else? I lose track with you as you have suggested I am all and none of them over the years ;-)
Two out of three aint bad. "
In fairness to @isam Bobafett/Bobajobb's activity period and your own do make it look a bit Bruce Wayne/Batman / Clarke Kent/Supermanish....
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/profile/790/BobaFett
Username BobaFett Joined February 27
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/profile/736/TheLastBoyScout
Last Active February 27
I wouldn't mind if @PBModerator or @Rsc1000 can clear it up (He can do dns lookups iirc)
The lastboyscout, bobajob and Bobafett are the same person
Watch for sycophantic crawling and a Love of London that only someone who isn't from there could invent etc0 -
Thanks, that works okay. It's odd how you can't sign in the normal way with Safari. Maybe a bug in the code that no-one's bothered to fix.antifrank said:
I find that if I click on a poster's name, I can sign into Vanilla on Safari that way, but that I can't do so directly on the normal pb page.AndyJS said:O/T:
Does anyone know why you can't sign into Vanilla on Safari? Just tried to do it in an Apple Shop. Usually I use Chrome.0 -
Socrates said:
Today, Zambia is Africa’s biggest producer of copper and China is one of the world’s hungriest consumers of it, and relations between the two are increasingly bitter, as local people struggle to compete against a huge influx of Chinese businesses and unskilled labourPaul_Mid_Beds said:
[on Farm seizures] ‘What has happened is very cruel and nasty and doesn’t reflect well on anybody. But it is worth trying to understand what is happening, rather than saying it’s the lunatic act of one man. It’s not.’
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/7699583/dr-scott-i-presume/
Those Zambians sound awfully racist. Why aren't they celebrating the cultural diversity in food and music that the Chinese immigrants have brought to their country?
Now now. You know only whites can be racist.0 -
Not really, though I did walk past a number of shops in downtown Boulder that smelt as if they were, ah, "dispensing" medicinal productsJonathanD said:Sunil_Prasannan said:
I worked there for a few months in 2011, but that was before they legalised cannabis.AndyJS said:
Not sure what I'd do if I ever find myself in Colorado where they've legalised cannabis. Probably still wouldn't take it because of the recent reports on the negative effects of the drug.SimonStClare said:
Ditto - However, I’m always fascinated by these druggy discussions that crop up on PB from time to time, but rarely contribute as I have no personal or social anecdotal stories to add.AndyJS said:
Never used any recreational drugs. Might have done as a teenager if someone had offered me some.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:I wonder how many PBers have ever used drugs?
With the notable exception of Sean T who has been remarkably open about his past.
I got through plenty of class a's during my raving days of 88-96.
After that was a daily weed smoker until early last year when I finally quit.
I must confess that I even attended a number of PB drinks do's when absolutely flying.
Unadventurous maybe, but no regrets either - Indulging, especially with the harder drugs has always struck me as a game of Russian roulette, some live to tell the tale, some don’t.
Did working there tempt you to use cannabis?!
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On your first point, people don't get mentally ill, commit suicide or die from watching X factordavid_herdson said:
It's called free will. I don't like the X Factor but wouldn't ban something that others do enjoy just because I don't. Ok, trivial example but makes the point.isam said:
It's not easy obviously, but I would say look at what people who have got heavily into drugs and suffered as a result recommendMarkHopkins said:iSam
I do see where you're coming from and accept your experience in these drug issues.
But.... if prohibition is so successful, why did America repeal it when it failed with alcohol?
Another example is that some argue that boxing is dangerous and damages lives, but it's better to have it legal and with proper safeguards rather than driven underground.
Shouldn't the same apply to recreational drugs?
(Just asking, unsure myself).
Total abstinence
Why wait until kids are messed up? This is what I don't understand with Russell brand... He preaches and lives by total abstinence, yet wants drug laws relaxed
If people have the information on which to base a judgement, the capacity to make one, and are willing to accept the consequences of that decision, it's no business of the state to get involved beyond reasonable regulation and taxation unless third parties may be affected.
I'd rather they didn't take them because they understood the negative health consequences, not because they lived in fear of arrest and imprisonment.isam said:I say would you rather your kids were so frightened if the punishment for being caught with drugs that they never took them or that they had a friendly drug counsellor in rehab?
Your second point is a dangerous misunderstanding. Kids esp teenagers think they are indestructable... They need more than someone telling them the side effects. What you're suggesting doesn't work on its own0 -
Except for those whom his loudhailer disturbed!Alistair said:
I see the narrative of "brave" Murphy standing up to the evil nationalist fascists who say mean things is strong in the Spectator. One egg, but for that one egg and no-one would have had any idea what it was Murphy had done in those hundred days at all.Carnyx said:
Exactly my thoughts on reading that piece (amongst others).volcanopete said:Jim Murphy has got the backing of the Spectator-Andrew Neil and associates.I wonder how this important right wing backing will play in Scotland with Labour under the accusation of being red Tories and London based.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/politics/9355852/scotland-needs-jim-murphy-even-if-he-doesnt-want-to-go-back-there/
Especially after Mr M's been one of the very few SLAB activists to campaign at all consistently and publicly alongside Mr Darling and the Tories in indyref. If you are going to vote against anyone for Tory-hugging, or because you voted Yes, then it's going to affect him more than anyone else.
How far that offsets those who give him an extra mark for his activity is going to be a key issue in this election - never mind the public ones in 2015 and 2016.
Just noticed Wings over Scotland has posted a sample video of "how Jim listens to Scotland and avoids shouting about the SNP" from his Irn-Bru crate-supported anabasis, if anyone wants a sample of his rhetorical skills:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/painted-out-of-a-corner/
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There are far more effective and less expensive ways of discouraging drug use than prohibition. For one thing, in a legal trade, you could mark every packet of drugs with factual information on exactly the damage you're doing, and provide a phone number for an addiction helpline.isam said:
Cannabis overdose isn't a direct killer, it just causes mental illnessSmarmeron said:@isam
Just pointing out the stupidity of most of the anti drugs laws.
Someone enjoying a few pints, or whatever is acceptable, but in all probability, mankind was using other drugs well before it's invention.
(look up the lethal dose of alcohol, and compare it to cannabis)
Anyhow my basic point is that drugs are bad for the individual, and for society and so should be strongly discouraged. Legalisation is giving up the war on drugs (that was never fought)
Imagine we spent the money we waste fighting wars that are nothing to do with us on educating kids on the perils of drug use... I think we would be a lot better off
The war on drugs never being fought line is a nonsense one. It has certainly been fought in the US and didn't achieve anything there. You get drug use in maximum security prisons - if you can't control it in what is the equivalent of a police state, why on Earth do you think you can control it in a free society?0 -
Typically off-message comment from Tory MP Michael Fabricant:
" Mark Reckless retweeted
Michael Fabricant @Mike_Fabricant Oct 28
I'm looking forward to visiting #RochesterandStrood again on Thursday. Thanks @MarkReckless for some good restaurant recommendations!"
https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant0 -
There are good restaurants in Rochester & Strood?AndyJS said:Typically off-message comment from Tory MP Michael Fabricant:
" Mark Reckless retweeted
Michael Fabricant @Mike_Fabricant Oct 28
I'm looking forward to visiting #RochesterandStrood again on Thursday. Thanks @MarkReckless for some good restaurant recommendations!"
https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant0 -
I don't drink, but I don't believe in prohibition.0
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Financier said:
There is a lot of resentment in Africa regarding the Chinese policy of non-recruitment of local labour. Contrary to the practice of many other contractors, the Chinese bring in all their own Chinese labour required for the project instead of using local labour.Socrates said:
Today, Zambia is Africa’s biggest producer of copper and China is one of the world’s hungriest consumers of it, and relations between the two are increasingly bitter, as local people struggle to compete against a huge influx of Chinese businesses and unskilled labourPaul_Mid_Beds said:
[on Farm seizures] ‘What has happened is very cruel and nasty and doesn’t reflect well on anybody. But it is worth trying to understand what is happening, rather than saying it’s the lunatic act of one man. It’s not.’
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/7699583/dr-scott-i-presume/
Those Zambians sound awfully racist. Why aren't they celebrating the cultural diversity in food and music that the Chinese immigrants have brought to their country?
A tricky one. African regimes tend to prefer Chinese to Western companies as they don't come with "baggage". None of those nonsense worries about back handers, or commitment to democracy or the environment.
Western companies on the other hand do, or are forced to (Bribery Act, FCPA, etc). They also normally take environmental standards seriously as well as CSR. They also hire locally. Even if they are "neo-Colonialist".0 -
I stand to benefit.TheWatcher said:When I hear someone arguing for the legalisation of drugs, I first ask myself 'are they a user/abuser, or do they stand to benefit financially from any changes to the law?'
I anticipate less crime from addicts scouring the local residences for felonious opportunities, I would hope to benefit from less street crime or shop lifting. It would be nice if some of the profits from the nefarious dishonest and illegal trade was regularised taxed and made legal.
I would hope crime figures fall, police have time to attend to child rape and things like that, there are less poisons added to the drugs, helping the NHS as well.
We should all be better off, including the users, with the exceptions of the scum that trade in illegal drugs.0 -
Do they serve Freshly-squeezed Tory majority?Richard_Nabavi said:
There are good restaurants in Rochester & Strood?AndyJS said:Typically off-message comment from Tory MP Michael Fabricant:
" Mark Reckless retweeted
Michael Fabricant @Mike_Fabricant Oct 28
I'm looking forward to visiting #RochesterandStrood again on Thursday. Thanks @MarkReckless for some good restaurant recommendations!"
https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant0 -
It could be argued that slavery and the *growth* of empires can happily go hand-in-hand (except for the slaves), and act as a stimulant to development. Egypt, Greece and Rome of antiquity, and Spain, France and Britain more recently would suggest so. (Greece wasn't an empire as such but was arguably the most developed society within a thousand miles).MonikerDiCanio said:
The unstimulated slave empires of antiquity argue against your thesis.david_herdson said:
I thought it was founded on slavery?MonikerDiCanio said:Western civilization was founded on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are the holy trinity of human progress.
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Martin Kettle laments Labour's lack of ambition in Rochester:
"The north Kent constituency of Rochester and Strood, where probably the most consequential byelection of this parliament will take place in three weeks’ time, is a seat that a strong Labour party could win. A confident Labour party certainly ought to be in strong contention. Instead, Ed Miliband seems resigned to finishing third behind the Conservatives and Ukip. No part of what this says about the Labour party’s condition is good.
If you know your postwar political history, the conclusion is pretty obvious. To get a Labour government, you have to win Rochester and Strood. It is one of the seats in Kent – like Dartford and Dover – that help to make the difference between Labour general election victory and general election defeat. Without wins in the marginals in such counties as Kent, Berkshire, Essex and Hertfordshire, you don’t get Labour governments."
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/29/miliband-point-of-no-return-rochester-come-out-fighting0 -
What are you talking about, "read from a government pamphlet"? The government sacked the last drugs advisor that recommended legalisation. It is the government that does not want to listen to the arguments for legalisation.isam said:
I have to ask, as it seems that the PB view in drug usage is read from a government pamphlet, has anyone any real life experience of the issue... I have and I don't recognise any of what you are sayingSocrates said:
Prohibition certainly isn't better than legalisation. It does nothing to restrict supply, means there are dealers who are incentivised to push harsher drugs on soft drug uses, provides the start up capital for gangs to get into worse activities, and provides an apparently more attractive lifestyle for kids on sink estate than going to legal work. It's a miserable, failed policy.isam said:
BobajobThe_Last_Boy_Scout said:ISamuel
by your logic we would also ban dangerous sports such as rock fishing and mountaineering because some come to harm while doing them. Education is a better tool than prohibition
The first part is complete nonsense , I'd agree education is better than prohibition, but prohibition is better than legalisation
Drugs are legal in all but name anyway, passing a law will make no positive difference
And, as you asked, yes I have real life experience of the issue. Many of my friends have taken drugs over the years, and several still do.0 -
The BBC is reporting that the UK is now importing sperm from abroad, due to a lack of donors.
So the immigrants are now arriving before they are even conceived! I blame the last Labour government.0 -
Slavery is disastrous for economic growth. Just look at the southern US vs the northern US. The line of industrial development directly tracked the free state vs slave state divide.david_herdson said:
It could be argued that slavery and the *growth* of empires can happily go hand-in-hand (except for the slaves), and act as a stimulant to development. Egypt, Greece and Rome of antiquity, and Spain, France and Britain more recently would suggest so. (Greece wasn't an empire as such but was arguably the most developed society within a thousand miles).MonikerDiCanio said:
The unstimulated slave empires of antiquity argue against your thesis.david_herdson said:
I thought it was founded on slavery?MonikerDiCanio said:Western civilization was founded on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are the holy trinity of human progress.
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They come here...SandyRentool said:The BBC is reporting that the UK is now importing sperm from abroad, due to a lack of donors.
So the immigrants are now arriving before they are even conceived! I blame the last Labour government.0 -
The dealers will still be there, but on the right side of the law when their trade is legalised. Shell suits traded up for Saville Row.philiph said:
I stand to benefit.TheWatcher said:When I hear someone arguing for the legalisation of drugs, I first ask myself 'are they a user/abuser, or do they stand to benefit financially from any changes to the law?'
I anticipate less crime from addicts scouring the local residences for felonious opportunities, I would hope to benefit from less street crime or shop lifting. It would be nice if some of the profits from the nefarious dishonest and illegal trade was regularised taxed and made legal.
I would hope crime figures fall, police have tome to attend to child rape and things like that, there are less poisons added to the drugs, helping the NHS as well.
We should all be better off, including the users, with the exceptions of the scum that trade in illegal drugs.
Plod will love it - less work for lazy coppers to do, whilst waiting to collect their pensions. Don't believe any nonsense about other crimes being solved.0 -
I can't remember the exact words, but the blurb to one of the exhibits at the Museum of London Docklands says something on the lines of:david_herdson said:
It could be argued that slavery and the *growth* of empires can happily go hand-in-hand (except for the slaves), and act as a stimulant to development. Egypt, Greece and Rome of antiquity, and Spain, France and Britain more recently would suggest so. (Greece wasn't an empire as such but was arguably the most developed society within a thousand miles).MonikerDiCanio said:
The unstimulated slave empires of antiquity argue against your thesis.david_herdson said:
I thought it was founded on slavery?MonikerDiCanio said:Western civilization was founded on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are the holy trinity of human progress.
"A considerable proportion of London's wealth was obtained through slavery."0 -
I don’t think my ‘social set’ was immune to taking drugs, it was just never readily apparent, to me at least and no one proffered them around. – I remember visiting Amsterdam several times in the early 80’s with friends; the standing joke at the time was that I was the only member of the group not approached by pushers – very odd, as I didn't look like a plod on holiday, imho....Plato said:
I was in social set that used them a lot - especially speed/LSD. After giving cannabis a reluctant try as I find stoners very dull company - and knowing the odd effect on me - I had no trouble in saying No Thanks. I wasn't seen as puritanical, just someone who didn't feel better and no one tried to persuade me.
SimonStClare said:
Ditto - However, I’m always fascinated by these druggy discussions that crop up on PB from time to time, but rarely contribute as I have no personal or social anecdotal stories to add.AndyJS said:
Never used any recreational drugs. Might have done as a teenager if someone had offered me some.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:I wonder how many PBers have ever used drugs?
With the notable exception of Sean T who has been remarkably open about his past.
I got through plenty of class a's during my raving days of 88-96.
After that was a daily weed smoker until early last year when I finally quit.
I must confess that I even attended a number of PB drinks do's when absolutely flying.
Unadventurous maybe, but no regrets either - Indulging, especially with the harder drugs has always struck me as a game of Russian roulette, some live to tell the tale, some don’t.0 -
The profits won't beTheWatcher said:
The dealers will still be there, but on the right side of the law when their trade is legalised. Shell suits traded up for Saville Row.philiph said:
I stand to benefit.TheWatcher said:When I hear someone arguing for the legalisation of drugs, I first ask myself 'are they a user/abuser, or do they stand to benefit financially from any changes to the law?'
I anticipate less crime from addicts scouring the local residences for felonious opportunities, I would hope to benefit from less street crime or shop lifting. It would be nice if some of the profits from the nefarious dishonest and illegal trade was regularised taxed and made legal.
I would hope crime figures fall, police have tome to attend to child rape and things like that, there are less poisons added to the drugs, helping the NHS as well.
We should all be better off, including the users, with the exceptions of the scum that trade in illegal drugs.0 -
I take the Prof Nutt stance of relative harm. If other drugs were legal, alcohol would be potentially less of an issue.
And we could tax/regulate them - rather then be exploited/harmed by criminals.
Would I drink less if another form of social anaesthetic was available - probably.TheWatcher said:When I hear someone arguing for the legalisation of drugs, I first ask myself 'are they a user/abuser, or do they stand to benefit financially from any changes to the law?'
0 -
It would seem that my reappearance has caused complete confusion on here! I am from the Home Counties, not London!0
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Your example of scary drug pushers is very wide of the mark that's allSocrates said:
What are you talking about, "read from a government pamphlet"? The government sacked the last drugs advisor that recommended legalisation. It is the government that does not want to listen to the arguments for legalisation.isam said:
I have to ask, as it seems that the PB view in drug usage is read from a government pamphlet, has anyone any real life experience of the issue... I have and I don't recognise any of what you are sayingSocrates said:
Prohibition certainly isn't better than legalisation. It does nothing to restrict supply, means there are dealers who are incentivised to push harsher drugs on soft drug uses, provides the start up capital for gangs to get into worse activities, and provides an apparently more attractive lifestyle for kids on sink estate than going to legal work. It's a miserable, failed policy.isam said:
BobajobThe_Last_Boy_Scout said:ISamuel
by your logic we would also ban dangerous sports such as rock fishing and mountaineering because some come to harm while doing them. Education is a better tool than prohibition
The first part is complete nonsense , I'd agree education is better than prohibition, but prohibition is better than legalisation
Drugs are legal in all but name anyway, passing a law will make no positive difference
And, as you asked, yes I have real life experience of the issue. Many of my friends have taken drugs over the years, and several still do.
Most drug dealers are normal people who provide what they're asked for, not pushers who force them selves on precious flowers
Drugs are legal anyway. No one goes to prison for having or taking them. They are a net bad for society, why legalise them?
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IBelieve that alcohol goes back to ancient China through self-fermentation of fruit, but may well have happened to other similar civilisations. Tobacco dates back to the early inhabitants of the Americas where probably it was chewed before it was burned. Caffeine (coffee) was first discovered by the West from Ethiopia and was known throughout a lot of the Muslim world.MonikerDiCanio said:Western civilization was founded on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are the holy trinity of human progress.
0 -
I was thinking about the last thread.
http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/10/29/concerns-about-health-and-immigration-rise-as-the-economy-drops-to-six-year-low-in-the-ipsos-mori-issues-index/
Quite Ironic really that one of the major issues of the day, public finances, has been perceived to have been resolved. The public concern has certainly reduced in this area and polls are showing that the Tories and GO are more trusted. this actually in many ways plays into the hands of Labour because unintentionally the memories of the electorate are steadily being eroded from the serious issues of that period of government.
On the other side of this fiscal coin the Tories are now, simply by nullyfying this area of the politic, losing a good weapon that they could have used against the opposition in the run up tothe next election. They have to all intents and purposes eliminated one of the best cases for not voting Labour and reducing this threat / risk factor within the electorate as a whole.
Meanwhile Labour and Andy Burnham are more trusted on the NHS. Mmmmm........go figure?
DUEMA
ABL
0 -
You mean to say the nasty criminals who deal drugs now won't all go straight if drugs are legalised???TheWatcher said:
The dealers will still be there, but on the right side of the law when their trade is legalised. Shell suits traded up for Saville Row.philiph said:
I stand to benefit.TheWatcher said:When I hear someone arguing for the legalisation of drugs, I first ask myself 'are they a user/abuser, or do they stand to benefit financially from any changes to the law?'
I anticipate less crime from addicts scouring the local residences for felonious opportunities, I would hope to benefit from less street crime or shop lifting. It would be nice if some of the profits from the nefarious dishonest and illegal trade was regularised taxed and made legal.
I would hope crime figures fall, police have tome to attend to child rape and things like that, there are less poisons added to the drugs, helping the NHS as well.
We should all be better off, including the users, with the exceptions of the scum that trade in illegal drugs.
Plod will love it - less work for lazy coppers to do, whilst waiting to collect their pensions. Don't believe any nonsense about other crimes being solved.
You're kidding me????!!0 -
@The_Last_Boy_Scout
Scouts honour?..... ;-)0 -
Slavery is probably incompatible with an industrialised society, which requires relatively free movement of people, capital and information - all of which become difficult if not impossible to reconcile with slavery. That said, for pre-industrial societies, it made economic, if not moral, sense.Socrates said:
Slavery is disastrous for economic growth. Just look at the southern US vs the northern US. The line of industrial development directly tracked the free state vs slave state divide.david_herdson said:
It could be argued that slavery and the *growth* of empires can happily go hand-in-hand (except for the slaves), and act as a stimulant to development. Egypt, Greece and Rome of antiquity, and Spain, France and Britain more recently would suggest so. (Greece wasn't an empire as such but was arguably the most developed society within a thousand miles).MonikerDiCanio said:
The unstimulated slave empires of antiquity argue against your thesis.david_herdson said:
I thought it was founded on slavery?MonikerDiCanio said:Western civilization was founded on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are the holy trinity of human progress.
0 -
anyone voted yet in the South Yorkshire PCC election?0
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I don't think this is accurate. The vast majority of economic growth is down to total factor productivity (i.e. technological change), not capital deepening. The discovery of advances in agriculture, railways, electrical power etc was not caused by slavery.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I can't remember the exact words, but the blurb to one of the exhibits at the Museum of London Docklands says something on the lines of:david_herdson said:
It could be argued that slavery and the *growth* of empires can happily go hand-in-hand (except for the slaves), and act as a stimulant to development. Egypt, Greece and Rome of antiquity, and Spain, France and Britain more recently would suggest so. (Greece wasn't an empire as such but was arguably the most developed society within a thousand miles).MonikerDiCanio said:
The unstimulated slave empires of antiquity argue against your thesis.david_herdson said:
I thought it was founded on slavery?MonikerDiCanio said:Western civilization was founded on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are the holy trinity of human progress.
"A considerable proportion of London's wealth was obtained through slavery."0 -
@iSamuel
Crawling sycophancy is tortology. I have not been sycophantic as I recall - merely thanked people for welcoming me back. Your posts have been the opposite rather blunt and saying my analogies are nonsense without saying why.0 -
Well, they didn't say "a majority", merely "considerable".Socrates said:
I don't think this is accurate. The vast majority of economic growth is down to total factor productivity (i.e. technological change), not capital deepening. The discovery of advances in agriculture, railways, electrical power etc was not caused by slavery.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I can't remember the exact words, but the blurb to one of the exhibits at the Museum of London Docklands says something on the lines of:david_herdson said:
It could be argued that slavery and the *growth* of empires can happily go hand-in-hand (except for the slaves), and act as a stimulant to development. Egypt, Greece and Rome of antiquity, and Spain, France and Britain more recently would suggest so. (Greece wasn't an empire as such but was arguably the most developed society within a thousand miles).MonikerDiCanio said:
The unstimulated slave empires of antiquity argue against your thesis.david_herdson said:
I thought it was founded on slavery?MonikerDiCanio said:Western civilization was founded on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are the holy trinity of human progress.
"A considerable proportion of London's wealth was obtained through slavery."0 -
Wasn't it the Egyptians who invented beer?Financier said:
IBelieve that alcohol goes back to ancient China through self-fermentation of fruit, but may well have happened to other similar civilisations. Tobacco dates back to the early inhabitants of the Americas where probably it was chewed before it was burned. Caffeine (coffee) was first discovered by the West from Ethiopia and was known throughout a lot of the Muslim world.MonikerDiCanio said:Western civilization was founded on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are the holy trinity of human progress.
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I believe the house speciality is newly-crushed Tory defeat, served with lashings of no confidence sauce.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Do they serve Freshly-squeezed Tory majority?Richard_Nabavi said:
There are good restaurants in Rochester & Strood?AndyJS said:Typically off-message comment from Tory MP Michael Fabricant:
" Mark Reckless retweeted
Michael Fabricant @Mike_Fabricant Oct 28
I'm looking forward to visiting #RochesterandStrood again on Thursday. Thanks @MarkReckless for some good restaurant recommendations!"
https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant
It's recommended that you take a chateaux d'brady 1922, to accompany it.0 -
Tiny Tim's Tea Rooms sounds enticing:Richard_Nabavi said:
There are good restaurants in Rochester & Strood?AndyJS said:Typically off-message comment from Tory MP Michael Fabricant:
" Mark Reckless retweeted
Michael Fabricant @Mike_Fabricant Oct 28
I'm looking forward to visiting #RochesterandStrood again on Thursday. Thanks @MarkReckless for some good restaurant recommendations!"
https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurants-g635679-Rochester_Kent_England.html0 -
I think you mean tautology. So your comment is a tautological tautologyThe_Last_Boy_Scout said:@iSamuel
Crawling sycophancy is tortology. I have not been sycophantic as I recall - merely thanked people for welcoming me back. Your posts have been the opposite rather blunt and saying my analogies are nonsense without saying why. 0 -
@Sunil_Prasannan
Elephants get drunk (along with several other species) claiming to have "invented" it, is typical of the semi evolved apes!0 -
Thanks for asking the question, and the tip. I've been having the same problem on my wife's MacBook.AndyJS said:
Thanks, that works okay. It's odd how you can't sign in the normal way with Safari. Maybe a bug in the code that no-one's bothered to fix.antifrank said:
I find that if I click on a poster's name, I can sign into Vanilla on Safari that way, but that I can't do so directly on the normal pb page.AndyJS said:O/T:
Does anyone know why you can't sign into Vanilla on Safari? Just tried to do it in an Apple Shop. Usually I use Chrome.0 -
Britain First are complaining that the Royal Mail is refusing to deliver its election leaflets in Rochester & Strood:
https://www.britainfirst.org/help-us-expose-john-gartland-royal-mail-commissar-thinks-owns-democracy/0 -
It made economic sense for individual slave-owners, but not for societies as a whole. In the southern US, low skill labour was held back from moving to its most productive usage (self-employment on the frontier), huge expense had to be used on a police state to recapture escaped slaves, free labour had its wage undermined (reducing consumption spending), and the occasional revolt caused a lot of capital damage.david_herdson said:Slavery is probably incompatible with an industrialised society, which requires relatively free movement of people, capital and information - all of which become difficult if not impossible to reconcile with slavery. That said, for pre-industrial societies, it made economic, if not moral, sense.
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I presume you are an avid supporter then of the tobacco companies and abhor recent laws against tobacco use. I cannot understand the LD strategy here - for every switcher brought back from Labour 2 or 3 more will be lost to Con/UKIP. I think Clegg has got carried back to the 60s after wearing the harperson t-shirt the other day. BTW how silly did it make Miliband look - so not what he needs!philiph said:
I stand to benefit.TheWatcher said:When I hear someone arguing for the legalisation of drugs, I first ask myself 'are they a user/abuser, or do they stand to benefit financially from any changes to the law?'
I anticipate less crime from addicts scouring the local residences for felonious opportunities, I would hope to benefit from less street crime or shop lifting. It would be nice if some of the profits from the nefarious dishonest and illegal trade was regularised taxed and made legal.
I would hope crime figures fall, police have time to attend to child rape and things like that, there are less poisons added to the drugs, helping the NHS as well.
We should all be better off, including the users, with the exceptions of the scum that trade in illegal drugs.0 -
Ha! The default of my group was to be stoned/tripping/coming down - I was a novelty and hence my tedium with their company unless taking the pee.
I had a vg friend who became quite different when he was stoned - angry, dark and vengeful. and drew a lot of ugly cartoons like Gerald Scarfe. It made me very uncomfortable - I felt like I was seeing his inner self.SimonStClare said:I don’t think my ‘social set’ was immune to taking drugs, it was just never readily apparent, to me at least and no one proffered them around. – I remember visiting Amsterdam several times in the early 80’s with friends; the standing joke at the time was that I was the only member of the group not approached by pushers – very odd, as I didn't look like a plod on holiday, imho....
Plato said:I
SimonStClare said:AndyJS said:
Never used any recreational drugs. Might have done as a teenager if someone had offered me some.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:I wonder how many PBers have ever used drugs?
.SimonStClare said:I don’t think my ‘social set’ was immune to taking drugs, it was just never readily apparent, to me at least and no one proffered them around. – I remember visiting Amsterdam several times in the early 80’s with friends; the standing joke at the time was that I was the only member of the group not approached by pushers – very odd, as I didn't look like a plod on holiday, imho....
snipSimonStClare said:
Ditto - However, I’m always fascinated by these druggy discussions that crop up on PB from time to time, but rarely contribute as I have no personal or social anecdotal stories to add.AndyJS said:
Never used any recreational drugs. Might have done as a teenager if someone had offered me some.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:I wonder how many PBers have ever used drugs?
With the notable exception of Sean T who has been remarkably open about his past.
I got through plenty of class a's during my raving days of 88-96.
After that was a daily weed smoker until early last year when I finally quit.
I must confess that I even attended a number of PB drinks do's when absolutely flying.
Unadventurous maybe, but no regrets either - Indulging, especially with the harder drugs has always struck me as a game of Russian roulette, some live to tell the tale, some don’t.
0 -
Very well said. Sadly, I don't see many of our politicians, of any party, willing to stand up and make the libertarian case on this.david_herdson said:
It's called free will. I don't like the X Factor but wouldn't ban something that others do enjoy just because I don't. Ok, trivial example but makes the point.isam said:
It's not easy obviously, but I would say look at what people who have got heavily into drugs and suffered as a result recommendMarkHopkins said:iSam
I do see where you're coming from and accept your experience in these drug issues.
But.... if prohibition is so successful, why did America repeal it when it failed with alcohol?
Another example is that some argue that boxing is dangerous and damages lives, but it's better to have it legal and with proper safeguards rather than driven underground.
Shouldn't the same apply to recreational drugs?
(Just asking, unsure myself).
Total abstinence
Why wait until kids are messed up? This is what I don't understand with Russell brand... He preaches and lives by total abstinence, yet wants drug laws relaxed
If people have the information on which to base a judgement, the capacity to make one, and are willing to accept the consequences of that decision, it's no business of the state to get involved beyond reasonable regulation and taxation unless third parties may be affected.
I'd rather they didn't take them because they understood the negative health consequences, not because they lived in fear of arrest and imprisonment.isam said:I say would you rather your kids were so frightened if the punishment for being caught with drugs that they never took them or that they had a friendly drug counsellor in rehab?
0 -
There is a theory that beer was the driving force behind the foundation of agricultural civilisation. The idea is that nomadic men discovered that grain would ferment in water and that the result tastes nice, so they settled down to cultivate the grain so that they could make more of the stuff.0
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My point is that the vast, vast majority of London's wealth is down to technological improvement, with only a fraction due to added capital. And of that added capital, only a fraction of that can be said to be down to slavery. Thus I don't think even a "considerable proportion" is down to it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Well, they didn't say "a majority", merely "considerable".Socrates said:
I don't think this is accurate. The vast majority of economic growth is down to total factor productivity (i.e. technological change), not capital deepening. The discovery of advances in agriculture, railways, electrical power etc was not caused by slavery.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I can't remember the exact words, but the blurb to one of the exhibits at the Museum of London Docklands says something on the lines of:david_herdson said:
It could be argued that slavery and the *growth* of empires can happily go hand-in-hand (except for the slaves), and act as a stimulant to development. Egypt, Greece and Rome of antiquity, and Spain, France and Britain more recently would suggest so. (Greece wasn't an empire as such but was arguably the most developed society within a thousand miles).MonikerDiCanio said:
The unstimulated slave empires of antiquity argue against your thesis.david_herdson said:
I thought it was founded on slavery?MonikerDiCanio said:Western civilization was founded on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are the holy trinity of human progress.
"A considerable proportion of London's wealth was obtained through slavery."0 -
I'm looking at their site but I can't see one side of this story, let alone the RMs.AndyJS said:Britain First are complaining that the Royal Mail is refusing to deliver its election leaflets in Rochester & Strood:
https://www.britainfirst.org/help-us-expose-john-gartland-royal-mail-commissar-thinks-owns-democracy/
https://www.britainfirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/jayda-leaflet3.jpg
Doesn't tell us much.0 -
I did say why they were nonsense, you haven't been anywhere just here using similar names so I don't see why people are welcoming you backThe_Last_Boy_Scout said:@iSamuel
Crawling sycophancy is tortology. I have not been sycophantic as I recall - merely thanked people for welcoming me back. Your posts have been the opposite rather blunt and saying my analogies are nonsense without saying why.
Just throwing this out there to all PBers.. Anyone have experience of living in the UAE? A mate of mine is over there and his wife is a nurse... Is it easy for her to find work ? Preferably in midwifery0 -
That's because most of the public aren't libertarians, acknowledging that there are knock-on effects to others. There's a far stronger case to be made against prohibition, which hasn't been made, which is that prohibition doesn't reduce drug usage, and causes all sorts of other costs.Casino_Royale said:Very well said. Sadly, I don't see many of our politicians, of any party, willing to stand up and make the libertarian case on this.
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I don't drink and probably never will, but I don't believe in prohibition. Just like bungee-jumping. I'm not into that, but just because I'm not, I wouldn't dream of banning it for other people!Casino_Royale said:
Very well said. Sadly, I don't see many of our politicians, of any party, willing to stand up and make the libertarian case on this.david_herdson said:
It's called free will. I don't like the X Factor but wouldn't ban something that others do enjoy just because I don't. Ok, trivial example but makes the point.isam said:
It's not easy obviously, but I would say look at what people who have got heavily into drugs and suffered as a result recommendMarkHopkins said:iSam
I do see where you're coming from and accept your experience in these drug issues.
But.... if prohibition is so successful, why did America repeal it when it failed with alcohol?
Another example is that some argue that boxing is dangerous and damages lives, but it's better to have it legal and with proper safeguards rather than driven underground.
Shouldn't the same apply to recreational drugs?
(Just asking, unsure myself).
Total abstinence
Why wait until kids are messed up? This is what I don't understand with Russell brand... He preaches and lives by total abstinence, yet wants drug laws relaxed
If people have the information on which to base a judgement, the capacity to make one, and are willing to accept the consequences of that decision, it's no business of the state to get involved beyond reasonable regulation and taxation unless third parties may be affected.
I'd rather they didn't take them because they understood the negative health consequences, not because they lived in fear of arrest and imprisonment.isam said:I say would you rather your kids were so frightened if the punishment for being caught with drugs that they never took them or that they had a friendly drug counsellor in rehab?
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It was the meeting of the three that catalysed understanding and perspective.Financier said:
IBelieve that alcohol goes back to ancient China through self-fermentation of fruit, but may well have happened to other similar civilisations. Tobacco dates back to the early inhabitants of the Americas where probably it was chewed before it was burned. Caffeine (coffee) was first discovered by the West from Ethiopia and was known throughout a lot of the Muslim world.MonikerDiCanio said:Western civilization was founded on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are the holy trinity of human progress.
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Maybe Royal Mail don't want the UKIP vote to be split?AndyJS said:Britain First are complaining that the Royal Mail is refusing to deliver its election leaflets in Rochester & Strood:
https://www.britainfirst.org/help-us-expose-john-gartland-royal-mail-commissar-thinks-owns-democracy/ 0 -
Well we know the LDs are boycotting the poll, so chances are Nick Clegg hasn't made it to the polling station yet.state_go_away said:anyone voted yet in the South Yorkshire PCC election?
Incidentally, the LDs are part of the government that foisted PCCs and these silly elections onto us, and now they are boycotting them! Typical nonsense from the pot-head party.0 -
I don't know about the healthcare market there, but I've been to Dubai several times. They generally seem to have a policy of allowing anyone who gets a job a visa, but they'll kick you out as soon as you lose it.isam said:
I did say why they were nonsense, you haven't been anywhere just here using similar names so I don't see why people are welcoming you backThe_Last_Boy_Scout said:@iSamuel
Crawling sycophancy is tortology. I have not been sycophantic as I recall - merely thanked people for welcoming me back. Your posts have been the opposite rather blunt and saying my analogies are nonsense without saying why.
Just throwing this out there to all PBers.. Anyone have experience of living in the UAE? A mate of mine is over there and his wife is a nurse... Is it easy for her to find work ? Preferably in midwifery
It's a horrible place though.0 -
@benatipsosmori: Wow. Once a year or less we do a poll that genuinely surprises me and has big immediate implications. Out later!0
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Sunil_Prasannan said:
Well, they didn't say "a majority", merely "considerable".Socrates said:
I don't think this is accurate. The vast majority of economic growth is down to total factor productivity (i.e. technological change), not capital deepening. The discovery of advances in agriculture, railways, electrical power etc was not caused by slavery.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I can't remember the exact words, but the blurb to one of the exhibits at the Museum of London Docklands says something on the lines of:david_herdson said:
It could be argued that slavery and the *growth* of empires can happily go hand-in-hand (except for the slaves), and act as a stimulant to development. Egypt, Greece and Rome of antiquity, and Spain, France and Britain more recently would suggest so. (Greece wasn't an empire as such but was arguably the most developed society within a thousand miles).MonikerDiCanio said:
The unstimulated slave empires of antiquity argue against your thesis.david_herdson said:
I thought it was founded on slavery?MonikerDiCanio said:Western civilization was founded on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are the holy trinity of human progress.
"A considerable proportion of London's wealth was obtained through slavery."
I'd still think the claim questionable. London was not one of the ports seriously engaged in the slave trade, especially when compared with Bristol, Liverpool and Glasgow. Furthermore, whilst London was always an important trading hub it really grew into a massive port in the nineteenth century well after the slave trade was banned in the UK or by UK shipping.
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Here is a genuine question to those who would legalize drugs but have them regulated enough to be only sold by certain approved sources.
I think its fair to say most people who argue the above (like Nick Palmer earlier I think) state an example of an addict who will get better treatment by this approach. Fair enough but would the approved seller sell to somebody who has never tried drugs before? If so then you have to say that the state would effectively start people off on drugs as well as easing them off0 -
You should do. They stopped donors being anonymous.SandyRentool said:The BBC is reporting that the UK is now importing sperm from abroad, due to a lack of donors.
I blame the last Labour government.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/uk-facing-sperm-donor-shortage/0 -
0
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yes I agree they are a nonsense and costly exercise . They are also probably a bit dangerous in terms of polarising power in one personSandyRentool said:
Well we know the LDs are boycotting the poll, so chances are Nick Clegg hasn't made it to the polling station yet.state_go_away said:anyone voted yet in the South Yorkshire PCC election?
Incidentally, the LDs are part of the government that foisted PCCs and these silly elections onto us, and now they are boycotting them! Typical nonsense from the pot-head party.0 -
We know the horrendous consequences of alcohol and tobacco abuse and the costs it brings to our health system so why would we choose to add to this by encouraging more drug use. The LDs are totally schizophrenic on this - Nanny state one minute and now they want flower power and purple haze the next- do me a favour.Socrates said:
That's because most of the public aren't libertarians, acknowledging that there are knock-on effects to others. There's a far stronger case to be made against prohibition, which hasn't been made, which is that prohibition doesn't reduce drug usage, and causes all sorts of other costs.Casino_Royale said:Very well said. Sadly, I don't see many of our politicians, of any party, willing to stand up and make the libertarian case on this.
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This depends on how you define Autumn.SandyRentool said:If we legalise drugs, will it give a boost to GDP?
Expect a surprise announcement in the Autumn* Statement
*December isn't in Autumn
I did once see a definition of Autumn where it was October, November and December. This was in the context of Arctic sea-ice, where the temperature of the ocean is the determining factor, and the greater thermal inertia of the oceans mean that you would expect the seasons to be delayed compared to a land-based perspective.
I favour Hubert Lamb's definition of the seasons, which is based on an analysis of weather patterns. He's not quite as pessimistic as made out, though, as he gives an alternative naming of his five seasons that has two summer seasons, rather than the two winter seasons used in my link above.
However, in either case he has winter starting on 20th November, earlier than the meteorological standard.0 -
Autumn is September ,October and November imho.OblitusSumMe said:
This depends on how you define Autumn.SandyRentool said:If we legalise drugs, will it give a boost to GDP?
Expect a surprise announcement in the Autumn* Statement
*December isn't in Autumn
I did once see a definition of Autumn where it was October, November and December. This was in the context of Arctic sea-ice, where the temperature of the ocean is the determining factor, and the greater thermal inertia of the oceans mean that you would expect the seasons to be delayed compared to a land-based perspective.
I favour Hubert Lamb's definition of the seasons, which is based on an analysis of weather patterns. He's not quite as pessimistic as made out, though, as he gives an alternative naming of his five seasons that has two summer seasons, rather than the two winter seasons used in my link above.
However, in either case he has winter starting on 20th November, earlier than the meteorological standard.
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If June 21st is Mid-Summer, and Dec 21st is Mid-Winter, than Mid-Autumn would be Sep 21st and Mid-Spring would be March 21stOblitusSumMe said:
This depends on how you define Autumn.SandyRentool said:If we legalise drugs, will it give a boost to GDP?
Expect a surprise announcement in the Autumn* Statement
*December isn't in Autumn
I did once see a definition of Autumn where it was October, November and December. This was in the context of Arctic sea-ice, where the temperature of the ocean is the determining factor, and the greater thermal inertia of the oceans mean that you would expect the seasons to be delayed compared to a land-based perspective.
I favour Hubert Lamb's definition of the seasons, which is based on an analysis of weather patterns. He's not quite as pessimistic as made out, though, as he gives an alternative naming of his five seasons that has two summer seasons, rather than the two winter seasons used in my link above.
However, in either case he has winter starting on 20th November, earlier than the meteorological standard.0 -
Jim Murphy putting in a good performance on the Daily Politics.
I hope Neil Findlay wins0 -
As opposed to the totally unrepresentative and unelected bodies they replaced. Typical Labour - opposing democracy here!state_go_away said:
yes I agree they are a nonsense and costly exercise . They are also probably a bit dangerous in terms of polarising power in one personSandyRentool said:
Well we know the LDs are boycotting the poll, so chances are Nick Clegg hasn't made it to the polling station yet.state_go_away said:anyone voted yet in the South Yorkshire PCC election?
Incidentally, the LDs are part of the government that foisted PCCs and these silly elections onto us, and now they are boycotting them! Typical nonsense from the pot-head party.0 -
The DWP often announce that papers will be released in "the Autumn". That usually means the last Friday before Christmas.0
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Harry Cole @MrHarryCole 53s53 seconds ago
"The only thing i'm interested in is getting rid of losing Labour" says Jim Murphy. He says, deserting Miliband.0 -
Avast, Mr Llama - I am well aware of 1807 and all that! Belike!HurstLlama said:Sunil_Prasannan said:
Well, they didn't say "a majority", merely "considerable".Socrates said:
I don't think this is accurate. The vast majority of economic growth is down to total factor productivity (i.e. technological change), not capital deepening. The discovery of advances in agriculture, railways, electrical power etc was not caused by slavery.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I can't remember the exact words, but the blurb to one of the exhibits at the Museum of London Docklands says something on the lines of:david_herdson said:
It could be argued that slavery and the *growth* of empires can happily go hand-in-hand (except for the slaves), and act as a stimulant to development. Egypt, Greece and Rome of antiquity, and Spain, France and Britain more recently would suggest so. (Greece wasn't an empire as such but was arguably the most developed society within a thousand miles).MonikerDiCanio said:
The unstimulated slave empires of antiquity argue against your thesis.david_herdson said:
I thought it was founded on slavery?MonikerDiCanio said:Western civilization was founded on alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. They are the holy trinity of human progress.
"A considerable proportion of London's wealth was obtained through slavery."
I'd still think the claim questionable. London was not one of the ports seriously engaged in the slave trade, especially when compared with Bristol, Liverpool and Glasgow. Furthermore, whilst London was always an important trading hub it really grew into a massive port in the nineteenth century well after the slave trade was banned in the UK or by UK shipping.0
