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It’s one of those mornings where one story dominates the front pages – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,702
edited July 2023 in General
It’s one of those mornings where one story dominates the front pages – politicalbetting.com

Summary of Monday's front pages (10/07/2023) #TomorrowsPapersToday #FrontPages #MondaysPapers #Headlines pic.twitter.com/6peZaFROEl

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    The press love anything that sells papers in the silly season, they love sex scandals at any time, they love moralising about sex scandals and they love talking about themselves.

    Of course they would find this one irresistible.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    Fishing said:

    The press love anything that sells papers in the silly season, they love sex scandals at any time, they love moralising about sex scandals and they love talking about themselves.

    Of course they would find this one irresistible.

    Also the media love talking about the media....
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,536
    In the last thread, at least two PBers were banned for speculating on this story.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,536
    And my quip about the "star" being too stupid to use OnlyFans was deleted.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,536
    Banks are closing down defence companies’ accounts, Government warns
    MoD claims ethical investing to blame for vital defence contractors being unable to access finance

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/07/09/banks-investigated-for-closing-defence-companies-accounts/ (£££)
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,536
    edited July 2023
    FPT
    Andy_JS said:

    It's not just Farage having banking problems.

    "Stuart Campbell – the man behind pro-independence blog Wings Over Scotland – claimed last month that First Direct, his bank for over 25 years, cancelled his personal account out of the blue, without even informing him. He only found out when his card was declined at the supermarket.

    First Direct offered no explanation as to why it did this to Campbell. But it’s possible to make an educated guess. As well as campaigning for Scottish independence, Campbell has not held back when attacking the excesses of woke ideology. Recently, he has been especially critical of the SNP’s trans policies."

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/07/07/the-terrifying-rise-of-debanking/

    Other political figures who have had accounts or closed include Jeremy Hunt and Ken Clarke, who have not campaigned for Scottish independence. As your linked article finally gets round to admitting, it is most likely the enhanced anti-money laundering procedures for PEPs (politically exposed persons) that are to blame, as indeed even Nigel Farage has said. Either banks are too trigger happy or PEP customers are unwilling to jump through intrusive and bureaucratic hoops demanded by the banks.

    Of course, as punters many of us face the same problems with having betting accounts closed for similar reasons, amid demands for pay slips, bank statements and passports.

    Jeremy Hunt denied bank account by Monzo
    Chancellor is among multiple politicians to have accounts denied and cards cancelled because of 'disproportionate' money laundering rules

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/07/08/jeremy-hunt-denied-bank-account-american-express-monzo/ (£££)
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,536

    Fishing said:

    The press love anything that sells papers in the silly season, they love sex scandals at any time, they love moralising about sex scandals and they love talking about themselves.

    Of course they would find this one irresistible.

    Also the media love talking about the media....
    And media groups with rival broadcasting arms love bashing the BBC.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited July 2023

    Fishing said:

    The press love anything that sells papers in the silly season, they love sex scandals at any time, they love moralising about sex scandals and they love talking about themselves.

    Of course they would find this one irresistible.

    Also the media love talking about the media....
    And media groups with rival broadcasting arms love bashing the BBC.
    Well it goes both ways.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,536
    edited July 2023

    Fishing said:

    The press love anything that sells papers in the silly season, they love sex scandals at any time, they love moralising about sex scandals and they love talking about themselves.

    Of course they would find this one irresistible.

    Also the media love talking about the media....
    And media groups with rival broadcasting arms love bashing the BBC.
    Well it goes both ways.
    After thinking about it for 30 seconds, I'm not sure it does go both ways. Does the BBC habitually attack Fleet Street or other media groups?

    ETA a quick glance at the Telegraph and Times home pages finds two other anti-BBC stories, unrelated to this one. Where is the BBC's equivalent?
  • Options
    Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 596
    How to sing a National Anthem:
    1. Play a few bars and let the crowd do the rest - see Welsh football fans or Scottish rugby fans.
    2. Ask an American actor/Elvis impersonator to do a novelty version.....

    Discuss
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited July 2023

    Fishing said:

    The press love anything that sells papers in the silly season, they love sex scandals at any time, they love moralising about sex scandals and they love talking about themselves.

    Of course they would find this one irresistible.

    Also the media love talking about the media....
    And media groups with rival broadcasting arms love bashing the BBC.
    Well it goes both ways.
    After thinking about it for 30 seconds, I'm not sure it does go both ways. Does the BBC habitually attack Fleet Street or other media groups?

    ETA a quick glance at the Telegraph and Times home pages finds two other anti-BBC stories, unrelated to this one. Where is the BBC's equivalent?
    You obviously miss the BBC near daily twitter bashing at the moment.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,536
    OK why hasn't the star been named? The Sun, which broke the story, reports calls for the BBC to name him, whilst conspicuously not doing so itself.

    My guess is that so far neither the Sun nor the BBC has been able to trace the sordid pictures back to when the child was under 18, or possibly establish a direct link between the star's payments and the child's photographs. Obviously this may change after forensic examination of phones and messages.

    It is possible an MP might use Parliamentary privilege to name the star today or later this week.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited July 2023

    OK why hasn't the star been named? The Sun, which broke the story, reports calls for the BBC to name him, whilst conspicuously not doing so itself.

    My guess is that so far neither the Sun nor the BBC has been able to trace the sordid pictures back to when the child was under 18, or possibly establish a direct link between the star's payments and the child's photographs. Obviously this may change after forensic examination of phones and messages.

    It is possible an MP might use Parliamentary privilege to name the star today or later this week.

    I was hoping we got past that nonsense of MPs doing this just because they could. What was the name of the Lib Dem MP who was always doing it during the "super injunction" period?

    I could understand them doing it if it was still being covered up, but the police are now involved so there is no good reason why an MP should. I guess we also don't know if it will lead to identification of the child, in the same way as everybody knows the name of the young man involved with Schofield. From the bits in the Sun story, it sounds like they are really quite troubled e.g. heavy serious drug use.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205

    OK why hasn't the star been named? The Sun, which broke the story, reports calls for the BBC to name him, whilst conspicuously not doing so itself.

    My guess is that so far neither the Sun nor the BBC has been able to trace the sordid pictures back to when the child was under 18, or possibly establish a direct link between the star's payments and the child's photographs. Obviously this may change after forensic examination of phones and messages.

    It is possible an MP might use Parliamentary privilege to name the star today or later this week.

    Cynically, the story is bigger with the BBC man not being named.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505
    Penddu2 said:

    How to sing a National Anthem:
    1. Play a few bars and let the crowd do the rest - see Welsh football fans or Scottish rugby fans.
    2. Ask an American actor/Elvis impersonator to do a novelty version.....

    Discuss

    National anthems sound far better sung by 50,000 bad singers than one good one.

  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,300

    OK why hasn't the star been named? The Sun, which broke the story, reports calls for the BBC to name him, whilst conspicuously not doing so itself.

    My guess is that so far neither the Sun nor the BBC has been able to trace the sordid pictures back to when the child was under 18, or possibly establish a direct link between the star's payments and the child's photographs. Obviously this may change after forensic examination of phones and messages.

    It is possible an MP might use Parliamentary privilege to name the star today or later this week.

    I was hoping we got past that nonsense of MPs doing this just because they could. What was the name of the Lib Dem MP who was always doing it during the "super injunction" period?

    I could understand them doing it if it was still being covered up, but the police are now involved so there is no good reason why an MP should. I guess we also don't know if it will lead to identification of the child, in the same way as everybody knows the name of the young man involved with Schofield. From the bits in the Sun story, it sounds like they are really quite troubled e.g. heavy serious drug use.
    John Hemming was the Lib Dem MP

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13525021
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,300

    In the last thread, at least two PBers were banned for speculating on this story.


    Both of whom have had multiple bans already and will be back.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,871

    In the last thread, at least two PBers were banned for speculating on this story.

    Can we speculate on who these naughty PBers are........
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,082

    In the last thread, at least two PBers were banned for speculating on this story.

    Can we speculate on who these naughty PBers are........
    The ones who were banned? Or the other naughty PBers… like @Cyclefree
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,300
    Cookie said:

    Fishing said:

    The press love anything that sells papers in the silly season, they love sex scandals at any time, they love moralising about sex scandals and they love talking about themselves.

    Of course they would find this one irresistible.

    Also the media love talking about the media....
    And media groups with rival broadcasting arms love bashing the BBC.
    Well it goes both ways.
    After thinking about it for 30 seconds, I'm not sure it does go both ways. Does the BBC habitually attack Fleet Street or other media groups?

    ETA a quick glance at the Telegraph and Times home pages finds two other anti-BBC stories, unrelated to this one. Where is the BBC's equivalent?
    None of the BBC's rivals are extracting money with menaces from the BBC's customers. You might not agree with the editorial position of, say, The Telegraph or The Guardian, but you are freenit to consume them in a way you are not with the BBC. Not surprising if anti-beebery is only one way.
    That said, the Beeb was right on board when Hugh Grant was trying to limit the power of the press. The BBC are keen to hit back when they can. The Beeb are very much of the view that life would be better if they were the only arbiter of the news agenda.
    True and they even have their own fact check service set up with BBC Verify.

    It’s time we found an alternative way to fund the BBC removing the license fee and funding the means of transmission via taxation.

    Richard Sharp, yesterday, was saying the ‘well off’ should pay more for the BBC than poorer households. No. The BBC is losing listeners and viewers. The license fee in its current form is untenable. You cannot demand people pay more for a service they use less and less.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Fishing said:

    The press love anything that sells papers in the silly season, they love sex scandals at any time, they love moralising about sex scandals and they love talking about themselves.

    Of course they would find this one irresistible.

    Also the media love talking about the media....
    And media groups with rival broadcasting arms love bashing the BBC.
    Well it goes both ways.
    After thinking about it for 30 seconds, I'm not sure it does go both ways. Does the BBC habitually attack Fleet Street or other media groups?

    ETA a quick glance at the Telegraph and Times home pages finds two other anti-BBC stories, unrelated to this one. Where is the BBC's equivalent?
    None of the BBC's rivals are extracting money with menaces from the BBC's customers. You might not agree with the editorial position of, say, The Telegraph or The Guardian, but you are freenit to consume them in a way you are not with the BBC. Not surprising if anti-beebery is only one way.
    That said, the Beeb was right on board when Hugh Grant was trying to limit the power of the press. The BBC are keen to hit back when they can. The Beeb are very much of the view that life would be better if they were the only arbiter of the news agenda.
    True and they even have their own fact check service set up with BBC Verify.

    It’s time we found an alternative way to fund the BBC removing the license fee and funding the means of transmission via taxation.

    Richard Sharp, yesterday, was saying the ‘well off’ should pay more for the BBC than poorer households. No. The BBC is losing listeners and viewers. The license fee in its current form is untenable. You cannot demand people pay more for a service they use less and less.
    I've been saying this for years, and the reaction from many was "You just hate the BBC!"

    Which is rubbish. I love the BBC. I personally have zero problem with paying the licence fee, and believe I get value for it from BBC 4 alone.

    But I'm not everyone, and the world has become a much more exciting place, media-wise. People can get their entertainment and news from so many more sources, and the licence fee increasingly looks like an anachronism of little relevance to large sectors of the population.

    I don't know what the answer is, but people who proclaim to love the BBC should be asking whether insisting on keeping the licence fee is actually going to kill the thing they love.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,082
    edited July 2023

    A somewhat jumbled personal post, if I may:

    Over the weekend I celebrated my dad's birthday. I'm lucky that both my parents are still alive, and are healthy (and wealthy) enough to enjoy holidays to the seaside. They have been brilliant parents.

    On his birthday, I came across a post about Henderika Oudgenoeg, a girl born in Delfzijl, Netherlands on exactly the same day as my dad. The photo shows a girl staring into the camera, clutching a doll and her elder brother's hand.

    She was just like my dad, except for two accidents: she was born in the Netherlands, not the UK, and she was Jewish, not Christian.

    She and her brother were deported to Auschwitz and murdered in a gas chamber when she was six.

    https://twitter.com/AuschwitzMuseum/status/1677762000410013696

    That little girl and my dad had no connection, aside from the accident of birthdate. Yet I cannot help of that connection as being strong: what would Henderika Oudgenoeg have become without the evil of anti-Semitism? Would she have had three happy children, as my dad did? would she have become a doctor and helped people?

    So much potential, utterly wasted: times six million.

    Hear hear.

    Except 6m is the number of Jews. I believe there were about 5m assorted other “undesirables” - gays, trade unionists, gypsies etc.

    So it should be “so much potential, utterly wasted: times eleven million”
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061

    A somewhat jumbled personal post, if I may:

    Over the weekend I celebrated my dad's birthday. I'm lucky that both my parents are still alive, and are healthy (and wealthy) enough to enjoy holidays to the seaside. They have been brilliant parents.

    On his birthday, I came across a post about Henderika Oudgenoeg, a girl born in Delfzijl, Netherlands on exactly the same day as my dad. The photo shows a girl staring into the camera, clutching a doll and her elder brother's hand.

    She was just like my dad, except for two accidents: she was born in the Netherlands, not the UK, and she was Jewish, not Christian.

    She and her brother were deported to Auschwitz and murdered in a gas chamber when she was six.

    https://twitter.com/AuschwitzMuseum/status/1677762000410013696

    That little girl and my dad had no connection, aside from the accident of birthdate. Yet I cannot help of that connection as being strong: what would Henderika Oudgenoeg have become without the evil of anti-Semitism? Would she have had three happy children, as my dad did? would she have become a doctor and helped people?

    So much potential, utterly wasted: times six million.

    Hear hear.

    Except 6m is the number of Jews. I believe there were about 5m assorted other “undesirables” - gays, trade unionists, gypsies etc.

    So it should be times eleven million
    A good point, well put.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,806

    A somewhat jumbled personal post, if I may:

    Over the weekend I celebrated my dad's birthday. I'm lucky that both my parents are still alive, and are healthy (and wealthy) enough to enjoy holidays to the seaside. They have been brilliant parents.

    On his birthday, I came across a post about Henderika Oudgenoeg, a girl born in Delfzijl, Netherlands on exactly the same day as my dad. The photo shows a girl staring into the camera, clutching a doll and her elder brother's hand.

    She was just like my dad, except for two accidents: she was born in the Netherlands, not the UK, and she was Jewish, not Christian.

    She and her brother were deported to Auschwitz and murdered in a gas chamber when she was six.

    https://twitter.com/AuschwitzMuseum/status/1677762000410013696

    That little girl and my dad had no connection, aside from the accident of birthdate. Yet I cannot help of that connection as being strong: what would Henderika Oudgenoeg have become without the evil of anti-Semitism? Would she have had three happy children, as my dad did? would she have become a doctor and helped people?

    So much potential, utterly wasted: times six million.

    There are some unappealing aspects to "dark tourism", where coach parties tick off sites such as Auschwitz or The Killing Fields.

    I think though the Auschwitz Museum twitter with its individual stories gets it right, and I find their tales very moving.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,806
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Fishing said:

    The press love anything that sells papers in the silly season, they love sex scandals at any time, they love moralising about sex scandals and they love talking about themselves.

    Of course they would find this one irresistible.

    Also the media love talking about the media....
    And media groups with rival broadcasting arms love bashing the BBC.
    Well it goes both ways.
    After thinking about it for 30 seconds, I'm not sure it does go both ways. Does the BBC habitually attack Fleet Street or other media groups?

    ETA a quick glance at the Telegraph and Times home pages finds two other anti-BBC stories, unrelated to this one. Where is the BBC's equivalent?
    None of the BBC's rivals are extracting money with menaces from the BBC's customers. You might not agree with the editorial position of, say, The Telegraph or The Guardian, but you are freenit to consume them in a way you are not with the BBC. Not surprising if anti-beebery is only one way.
    That said, the Beeb was right on board when Hugh Grant was trying to limit the power of the press. The BBC are keen to hit back when they can. The Beeb are very much of the view that life would be better if they were the only arbiter of the news agenda.
    True and they even have their own fact check service set up with BBC Verify.

    It’s time we found an alternative way to fund the BBC removing the license fee and funding the means of transmission via taxation.

    Richard Sharp, yesterday, was saying the ‘well off’ should pay more for the BBC than poorer households. No. The BBC is losing listeners and viewers. The license fee in its current form is untenable. You cannot demand people pay more for a service they use less and less.
    I don't see why we need a BBC at all. There's nothing it provides that the private sector doesn't, usually rather better. If the BBC didn't exist, there's no way we'd invent it in its current form, like the NHS or the planning system. Like them, it is a relic of a much more statist, homogenous era. Unlike them, it doesn't provide services that otherwise might not be.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,917
    I can't agree with the excessive focus on this. It doesn't even seem like news frankly until the identity is known.

    BBC should focus on actually informing us about things.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    Foxy said:

    A somewhat jumbled personal post, if I may:

    Over the weekend I celebrated my dad's birthday. I'm lucky that both my parents are still alive, and are healthy (and wealthy) enough to enjoy holidays to the seaside. They have been brilliant parents.

    On his birthday, I came across a post about Henderika Oudgenoeg, a girl born in Delfzijl, Netherlands on exactly the same day as my dad. The photo shows a girl staring into the camera, clutching a doll and her elder brother's hand.

    She was just like my dad, except for two accidents: she was born in the Netherlands, not the UK, and she was Jewish, not Christian.

    She and her brother were deported to Auschwitz and murdered in a gas chamber when she was six.

    https://twitter.com/AuschwitzMuseum/status/1677762000410013696

    That little girl and my dad had no connection, aside from the accident of birthdate. Yet I cannot help of that connection as being strong: what would Henderika Oudgenoeg have become without the evil of anti-Semitism? Would she have had three happy children, as my dad did? would she have become a doctor and helped people?

    So much potential, utterly wasted: times six million.

    There are some unappealing aspects to "dark tourism", where coach parties tick off sites such as Auschwitz or The Killing Fields.

    I think though the Auschwitz Museum twitter with its individual stories gets it right, and I find their tales very moving.
    That's a good point, but we need something that makes a connection with people. My dad's generation had a very visceral connection with the war; things like waking up in the New Forest one morning to see a distant glow as Southampton burned.

    I have a lesser connection, as you might expect from someone born nearly thirty years after it ended. I've got my dad's stories; my paternal granddad's few tales of his time as DEMS on ships; or my maternal grandmother's working at the Western Approaches in Liverpool.

    What connection does my son have? The events were seventy years before he was born, and he can only hear my granddad's stories now - and he was a child at the time, and does not like to talk about them much. My mum was born during the war, and has no memories of it. The connection for him is less visceral. And on the other hand, there are loads of Wehraboos on t'Internet glorying in the non-political Wehrmacht and its wonderful tanks - a gateway into neo-Nazism.

    For people with little or no direct connection with WW2 or the horrors of the camps and fascism, perhaps such trips can be important. As long as you learn something from it, that is...
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,017
    I’ve no doubt that swathes of the press will use this to make generalised critiques of BBC ‘culture’ or whatever, as if journos elsewhere are squeaky clean (and as has been pointed out often, it wasn’t that long ago that The Sun was routinely tapping up teenagers for nudey pics).

    There’s a simple fact underlying this: the BBC is airtime that the media barons could be extracting more income from. That is it, and all. There is never enough pie.

    As to the prurient speculation: it is potentially very damaging to a lot of the regular names I’ve seen being chucked around - and being used pretty shamelessly by the press in their thumbnail imagery on links.
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,017

    OK why hasn't the star been named? The Sun, which broke the story, reports calls for the BBC to name him, whilst conspicuously not doing so itself.

    My guess is that so far neither the Sun nor the BBC has been able to trace the sordid pictures back to when the child was under 18, or possibly establish a direct link between the star's payments and the child's photographs. Obviously this may change after forensic examination of phones and messages.

    It is possible an MP might use Parliamentary privilege to name the star today or later this week.

    I was hoping we got past that nonsense of MPs doing this just because they could. What was the name of the Lib Dem MP who was always doing it during the "super injunction" period?

    I could understand them doing it if it was still being covered up, but the police are now involved so there is no good reason why an MP should. I guess we also don't know if it will lead to identification of the child, in the same way as everybody knows the name of the young man involved with Schofield. From the bits in the Sun story, it sounds like they are really quite troubled e.g. heavy serious drug use.
    Yes, silly grandstanding by the MPs who did this. Though in an international media landscape now, the Streisand Effect is very real.

  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,227
    edited July 2023
    The superinjunction process was clearly being abused by the wealthy and powerful to cover up misdemeanours . What Hemming (who used to post here iirc) and others did was expose it. I didn’t have a problem with it.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,300

    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Fishing said:

    The press love anything that sells papers in the silly season, they love sex scandals at any time, they love moralising about sex scandals and they love talking about themselves.

    Of course they would find this one irresistible.

    Also the media love talking about the media....
    And media groups with rival broadcasting arms love bashing the BBC.
    Well it goes both ways.
    After thinking about it for 30 seconds, I'm not sure it does go both ways. Does the BBC habitually attack Fleet Street or other media groups?

    ETA a quick glance at the Telegraph and Times home pages finds two other anti-BBC stories, unrelated to this one. Where is the BBC's equivalent?
    None of the BBC's rivals are extracting money with menaces from the BBC's customers. You might not agree with the editorial position of, say, The Telegraph or The Guardian, but you are freenit to consume them in a way you are not with the BBC. Not surprising if anti-beebery is only one way.
    That said, the Beeb was right on board when Hugh Grant was trying to limit the power of the press. The BBC are keen to hit back when they can. The Beeb are very much of the view that life would be better if they were the only arbiter of the news agenda.
    True and they even have their own fact check service set up with BBC Verify.

    It’s time we found an alternative way to fund the BBC removing the license fee and funding the means of transmission via taxation.

    Richard Sharp, yesterday, was saying the ‘well off’ should pay more for the BBC than poorer households. No. The BBC is losing listeners and viewers. The license fee in its current form is untenable. You cannot demand people pay more for a service they use less and less.
    I've been saying this for years, and the reaction from many was "You just hate the BBC!"

    Which is rubbish. I love the BBC. I personally have zero problem with paying the licence fee, and believe I get value for it from BBC 4 alone.

    But I'm not everyone, and the world has become a much more exciting place, media-wise. People can get their entertainment and news from so many more sources, and the licence fee increasingly looks like an anachronism of little relevance to large sectors of the population.

    I don't know what the answer is, but people who proclaim to love the BBC should be asking whether insisting on keeping the licence fee is actually going to kill the thing they love.
    I was arguing this back in the days of Uk.media.tv.misc and get the same result. Some BBC advocates just cannot accept criticism of its method of funding.

    I long since abandoned BBC4 as it stopped, or reduced, it’s classic TV reruns and stopped making new drama.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,374
    Foxy said:
    I see very little substance to her at the moment. She is undoubtedly qualified and clever but she seems remarkably short of ideas, aspirations or vision. Labour is clearly aware of this, hence this contrived effort for "colour" but when even friendly papers like the Guardian report this for what it is she has a problem.

    At the moment she is coming across as a road block that is making it very difficult for Starmer to commit to anything. Labour gain "credibility" but lose the ability to inspire hope. I am not sure it is a great trade off.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,378
    Fishing said:

    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Fishing said:

    The press love anything that sells papers in the silly season, they love sex scandals at any time, they love moralising about sex scandals and they love talking about themselves.

    Of course they would find this one irresistible.

    Also the media love talking about the media....
    And media groups with rival broadcasting arms love bashing the BBC.
    Well it goes both ways.
    After thinking about it for 30 seconds, I'm not sure it does go both ways. Does the BBC habitually attack Fleet Street or other media groups?

    ETA a quick glance at the Telegraph and Times home pages finds two other anti-BBC stories, unrelated to this one. Where is the BBC's equivalent?
    None of the BBC's rivals are extracting money with menaces from the BBC's customers. You might not agree with the editorial position of, say, The Telegraph or The Guardian, but you are freenit to consume them in a way you are not with the BBC. Not surprising if anti-beebery is only one way.
    That said, the Beeb was right on board when Hugh Grant was trying to limit the power of the press. The BBC are keen to hit back when they can. The Beeb are very much of the view that life would be better if they were the only arbiter of the news agenda.
    True and they even have their own fact check service set up with BBC Verify.

    It’s time we found an alternative way to fund the BBC removing the license fee and funding the means of transmission via taxation.

    Richard Sharp, yesterday, was saying the ‘well off’ should pay more for the BBC than poorer households. No. The BBC is losing listeners and viewers. The license fee in its current form is untenable. You cannot demand people pay more for a service they use less and less.
    I don't see why we need a BBC at all. There's nothing it provides that the private sector doesn't, usually rather better. If the BBC didn't exist, there's no way we'd invent it in its current form, like the NHS or the planning system. Like them, it is a relic of a much more statist, homogenous era. Unlike them, it doesn't provide services that otherwise might not be.
    Not sure what is happening at the moment but I find myself increasingly in agreement with you!

    The BBC is a state funded organisation and it bears all the hallmarks of a bloated behemoth.

    I don't pay a licence fee and I never will. If people don't take a stance, nothing will change.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,806
    edited July 2023
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:
    I see very little substance to her at the moment. She is undoubtedly qualified and clever but she seems remarkably short of ideas, aspirations or vision. Labour is clearly aware of this, hence this contrived effort for "colour" but when even friendly papers like the Guardian report this for what it is she has a problem.

    At the moment she is coming across as a road block that is making it very difficult for Starmer to commit to anything. Labour gain "credibility" but lose the ability to inspire hope. I am not sure it is a great trade off.
    I suspect she can be interesting, but the facile spin of this arranged visit was pretty clunky.

    No more clunky than Sunak hanging around on a Southampton street where his mother's pharmacy used to be though.

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,572
    edited July 2023
    Is this one of those of Brexit dividends?

    Brexit tariffs threaten Vauxhall’s mega factory in Luton

    Crippling taxes weaken competitiveness of Britain’s nascent electric vehicle industry


    New Brexit tariffs on electric car parts threaten the future of Vauxhall’s huge factory in Luton, the plant’s director has warned.

    Mark Noble, who runs the Bedfordshire site, warned that crippling taxes applied to vehicles exported into mainland Europe pose a risk to the factory’s competitiveness.

    Under new “rules of origin” laws that come into force from January, 45pc of the value of an electric car must originate from either the UK or the EU. This is due to rise to 65pc in 2027.

    But car makers have urged the Government to roll out a moratorium on the new laws to allow them to catch up with the changes.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/09/brexit-tarrifs-threaten-vauxhall-mega-factory-luton/
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,378

    A somewhat jumbled personal post, if I may:

    Over the weekend I celebrated my dad's birthday. I'm lucky that both my parents are still alive, and are healthy (and wealthy) enough to enjoy holidays to the seaside. They have been brilliant parents.

    On his birthday, I came across a post about Henderika Oudgenoeg, a girl born in Delfzijl, Netherlands on exactly the same day as my dad. The photo shows a girl staring into the camera, clutching a doll and her elder brother's hand.

    She was just like my dad, except for two accidents: she was born in the Netherlands, not the UK, and she was Jewish, not Christian.

    She and her brother were deported to Auschwitz and murdered in a gas chamber when she was six.

    https://twitter.com/AuschwitzMuseum/status/1677762000410013696

    That little girl and my dad had no connection, aside from the accident of birthdate. Yet I cannot help of that connection as being strong: what would Henderika Oudgenoeg have become without the evil of anti-Semitism? Would she have had three happy children, as my dad did? would she have become a doctor and helped people?

    So much potential, utterly wasted: times six million.

    God, that's a heartfelt and gut-wrenching post. Thank you for sharing it.

    Everyone should go once to Yad Vashem and fall silent in the Children's Memorial there.

  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,227
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:
    I see very little substance to her at the moment. She is undoubtedly qualified and clever but she seems remarkably short of ideas, aspirations or vision. Labour is clearly aware of this, hence this contrived effort for "colour" but when even friendly papers like the Guardian report this for what it is she has a problem.

    At the moment she is coming across as a road block that is making it very difficult for Starmer to commit to anything. Labour gain "credibility" but lose the ability to inspire hope. I am not sure it is a great trade off.
    And on this I think we agree. By boxing herself into an orthodoxy entirely framed by the current Government, she leaves no room to offer tactical redirection, never mind an alternative vision.

    The country needs more from Labour than bland managerialism.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,806
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:
    I see very little substance to her at the moment. She is undoubtedly qualified and clever but she seems remarkably short of ideas, aspirations or vision. Labour is clearly aware of this, hence this contrived effort for "colour" but when even friendly papers like the Guardian report this for what it is she has a problem.

    At the moment she is coming across as a road block that is making it very difficult for Starmer to commit to anything. Labour gain "credibility" but lose the ability to inspire hope. I am not sure it is a great trade off.
    I think the real roadblock is our annual budget deficit of £130 billion, on top of some of the highest tax rates in our history.

    I notice that the government is getting increasingly nervous about financing it at the new interest rates.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,572
    Remember when pollsters found Boris Johnson had better ratings in Scotland than Alex Salmond?

    Half of people questioned by pollsters believe that Humza Yousaf has done a bad job in his first 100 days as first minister.

    Fewer than a quarter of voters (23 per cent) endorsed his tenure, which has been fraught with internal party issues and U-turns on the deposit return scheme and highly protected marine areas.

    A poll in April had suggested that 19 per cent of people thought Yousaf was doing well, and 44 per cent believed the opposite, although his administration was just weeks old when it was conducted.

    He [Yousaf] had a slightly better rating than Rishi Sunak, with 22 per cent of Scots saying he was doing a good job leading the UK government, compared to 59 per cent who said he was doing a bad job.

    On favourability, 28 per cent had a favourable view of Yousaf, and 51 per cent had an unfavourable view.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/humza-yousaf-s-doing-a-bad-job-poll-suggests-5pm2bp0hx
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,602
    I logged-on this to see this thread headline this morning and half-expected to see wall-to-wall coverage of Damian Lewis with his microphone.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,368
    However much I loathe the BBC on the way its managed and the way that it now broadcasts. I want access to its library of brilliant stuff it has broadcast in the past.... especially its dramas.
    Today's offerings on BBC are not worth to me 14 quid a year never mind 14 quid a month....
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,572
    edited July 2023
    Sleazy broken Scottish Nationalism on the slide.

    YouGov

    Should Scotland be an independent country?

    Yes 37% (-2)

    No 46% (+1)

    Changes with the last YouGov poll in April.

    Repercentaged without DKs/WNVs

    Yes 45%

    No 55%
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,227

    However much I loathe the BBC on the way its managed and the way that it now broadcasts. I want access to its library of brilliant stuff it has broadcast in the past.... especially its dramas.
    Today's offerings on BBC are not worth to me 14 quid a year never mind 14 quid a month....

    You didn’t watch Blue Lights then. Which was excellent.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,378
    edited July 2023
    You surely can't really expect Rachel Reeves and Labour to come out with radical solutions 10 months or 15 months before the next General Election that they are on course to win?

    Since when has that ever been a winning formula?

    Labour have to show economic competence and trustworthiness, not cutting-edge radicalism.

    It may be depressing but when the other party are imploding, you just need to be there and sound sensible.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,806

    Cookie said:



    I don't see why we need a BBC at all. There's nothing it provides that the private sector doesn't, usually rather better. If the BBC didn't exist, there's no way we'd invent it in its current form, like the NHS or the planning system. Like them, it is a relic of a much more statist, homogenous era. Unlike them, it doesn't provide services that otherwise might not be.

    Sorry, no. I've lived in both Australia and the US for many years and the private sector produces absolute crap for news. My son (17) who has never lived in the UK joined me watching the BBC 6 o clock news the other day and couldn't believe how interesting, unsensational and non-parochial it was, especially compared to "ABC World News Tonight" that is rarely about the world or news at all.

    Australia is little better. The ABC there survives very much on buying scraps from the BBC.

    People all over the world access the BBC via VPNs. Almost no one does that for American broadcast news or Australian TV.

    So again,, no. Show me a private sector doing it better and I'll listen.
    The BBC suffers from having to do everything for everyone, hence has lots that doesn't appeal to everyone.

    My boys did appreciate CBBC when young, and nice to have advertising free content for them. I haven't watched it since, but glad it still exists.

    I think the problem is more one of "the talent" being indulged to think that the rules do not apply to them. It is a problem in TV, other media, social media influencers, politics, business, pretty much anywhere there is a household name.

    I don't know who this person is, but it isn't the BBC that is sick, but rather our whole celebrity obsessed culture.

  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,378
    edited July 2023
    edit
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,227
    Heathener said:

    You surely can't really expect Rachel Reeves and Labour to come out with radical solutions 10 months or 15 months before the next General Election that they are on course to win?

    Since when has that ever been a winning formula?

    Labour have to show economic competence and trustworthiness, not cutting-edge radicalism.

    It may be depressing but when the other party are imploding, you just need to be there and sound sensible.

    But if ever there was a time to sell something radical it’s now. This is not 1997.
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,017
    Heathener said:

    You surely can't really expect Rachel Reeves and Labour to come out with radical solutions 10 months or 15 months before the next General Election that they are on course to win?

    Since when has that ever been a winning formula?

    Labour have to show economic competence and trustworthiness, not cutting-edge radicalism.

    It may be depressing but when the other party are imploding, you just need to be there and sound sensible.

    Indeed - Napoleon's 'never interrupt your enemy...' maxim applies.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,378
    edited July 2023
    Argh - something wrong with blockquoting.

    Am trying to respond to your comment @MartinVegas about news in both OZ and the US.

    Well there's a common denominator to news in Oz and the US and it's in the form of a single odious individual.

    But youngsters these days don't get news from traditional television. I don't own a tv and many GenZ's and millenials don't either.

    Online is where news is to be found and I see no reason to plunder the BBC website for it when there are so many alternatives.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,029

    Is this one of those of Brexit dividends?

    Brexit tariffs threaten Vauxhall’s mega factory in Luton

    Crippling taxes weaken competitiveness of Britain’s nascent electric vehicle industry


    New Brexit tariffs on electric car parts threaten the future of Vauxhall’s huge factory in Luton, the plant’s director has warned.

    Mark Noble, who runs the Bedfordshire site, warned that crippling taxes applied to vehicles exported into mainland Europe pose a risk to the factory’s competitiveness.

    Under new “rules of origin” laws that come into force from January, 45pc of the value of an electric car must originate from either the UK or the EU. This is due to rise to 65pc in 2027.

    But car makers have urged the Government to roll out a moratorium on the new laws to allow them to catch up with the changes.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/09/brexit-tarrifs-threaten-vauxhall-mega-factory-luton/

    Fuck it. It's only a mega factory which is 1/1000th of a giga factory.

    Also, every Vauxhall product since the Mk.1 GTE has been junk so who cares?
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:



    I don't see why we need a BBC at all. There's nothing it provides that the private sector doesn't, usually rather better. If the BBC didn't exist, there's no way we'd invent it in its current form, like the NHS or the planning system. Like them, it is a relic of a much more statist, homogenous era. Unlike them, it doesn't provide services that otherwise might not be.

    Sorry, no. I've lived in both Australia and the US for many years and the private sector produces absolute crap for news. My son (17) who has never lived in the UK joined me watching the BBC 6 o clock news the other day and couldn't believe how interesting, unsensational and non-parochial it was, especially compared to "ABC World News Tonight" that is rarely about the world or news at all.

    Australia is little better. The ABC there survives very much on buying scraps from the BBC.

    People all over the world access the BBC via VPNs. Almost no one does that for American broadcast news or Australian TV.

    So again,, no. Show me a private sector doing it better and I'll listen.
    The BBC suffers from having to do everything for everyone, hence has lots that doesn't appeal to everyone.

    My boys did appreciate CBBC when young, and nice to have advertising free content for them. I haven't watched it since, but glad it still exists.

    I think the problem is more one of "the talent" being indulged to think that the rules do not apply to them. It is a problem in TV, other media, social media influencers, politics, business, pretty much anywhere there is a household name.

    I don't know who this person is, but it isn't the BBC that is sick, but rather our whole celebrity obsessed culture.

    My oldest two girls (born 2010 and 2011) watched CBeebies - though Milkshake on Channel 5 and various freeview channels appeared to be providing an equally attractive offer. But its main benefit was that it was always there. By the time my youngest was born in 2014, on-demand viewing of various sorts trumped anything the BBC had to offer.
    None of them ever really got into CBBC, for the same reason: on-demand viewing took away the one competitive advantage of a dedicated children's channel.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,670
    edited July 2023
    @Farooq
    @Miklosvar
    @dixiedean

    So @Dixiedean stated that (paraphrasing so I hope I have this right) to appreciate the issue for a certain group you had to be a member of that certain group (not all groups, just that particular example). You disagreed and used an analogy to demonstrate that wasn’t true. It was an excellent analogy in that in the case you gave (a completely different group) it clearly wasn’t true which was the point you wanted to make.

    Analogies are very useful. They can often bring sudden clarity to an issue and can often provide easy routes to solving difficult problems (not quite the same, but the issue of 3 different sized circles with tangents on each pair of circles all interesting in a straight line is hard to prove, but easy if you change it to 3 balls and intersecting planes).

    The problem with analogies is it can appear you have one when you haven’t.

    Whether you agree with @Dixiedean or not, and I am sure he was generalizing anyway, but it is not true that your analogy proves him wrong as each case depends on the context (the group involved). You have picked one example that is at one extreme. His was different.

    You simply picked a case that was obviously true. There are plenty of examples where what you deduce is not obviously true.

    Eg. I think it is reasonable to assume that as someone who doesn’t speak Chinese I have little understanding of Chinese grammar. For me that is certainly a fact and I assume true for others. So it is true that those best able to comment are generally Chinese speakers. As a left hander I am aware that most right handers are not aware of some of the niche issues eg playing cards. Left handers are clearly more qualified to comment. You picked an example that you don’t have to be a Jew to appreciate the holocaust was wrong (paraphrasing) is true but was both tasteless and invalid compared to @dixiedean’s point.

    I don’t want to harp on about other issues but you brought these up again (not me). You have called me a liar directly yesterday and implied I lied a few weeks ago by posting laughter when I apologised that I had to leave temporarily to deal with the clearance of my deceased father’s house. Yesterday you accused me of being operatic in my reaction to your post about the death of my father. Really you think I overreacted and you haven’t gone beyond the pale by posting laughter? I mean really you do think that is ok? Didn't even attempt an apology.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,572
    Dura_Ace said:

    Is this one of those of Brexit dividends?

    Brexit tariffs threaten Vauxhall’s mega factory in Luton

    Crippling taxes weaken competitiveness of Britain’s nascent electric vehicle industry


    New Brexit tariffs on electric car parts threaten the future of Vauxhall’s huge factory in Luton, the plant’s director has warned.

    Mark Noble, who runs the Bedfordshire site, warned that crippling taxes applied to vehicles exported into mainland Europe pose a risk to the factory’s competitiveness.

    Under new “rules of origin” laws that come into force from January, 45pc of the value of an electric car must originate from either the UK or the EU. This is due to rise to 65pc in 2027.

    But car makers have urged the Government to roll out a moratorium on the new laws to allow them to catch up with the changes.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/09/brexit-tarrifs-threaten-vauxhall-mega-factory-luton/

    Fuck it. It's only a mega factory which is 1/1000th of a giga factory.

    Also, every Vauxhall product since the Mk.1 GTE has been junk so who cares?
    The Vauxhall Corsa has given me so many hours of pleasure.

    I'll get some chav in a souped Corsa trying to race/overtake me and then I gently put my foot on the accelerator......
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,536

    A somewhat jumbled personal post, if I may:

    Over the weekend I celebrated my dad's birthday. I'm lucky that both my parents are still alive, and are healthy (and wealthy) enough to enjoy holidays to the seaside. They have been brilliant parents.

    On his birthday, I came across a post about Henderika Oudgenoeg, a girl born in Delfzijl, Netherlands on exactly the same day as my dad. The photo shows a girl staring into the camera, clutching a doll and her elder brother's hand.

    She was just like my dad, except for two accidents: she was born in the Netherlands, not the UK, and she was Jewish, not Christian.

    She and her brother were deported to Auschwitz and murdered in a gas chamber when she was six.

    https://twitter.com/AuschwitzMuseum/status/1677762000410013696

    That little girl and my dad had no connection, aside from the accident of birthdate. Yet I cannot help of that connection as being strong: what would Henderika Oudgenoeg have become without the evil of anti-Semitism? Would she have had three happy children, as my dad did? would she have become a doctor and helped people?

    So much potential, utterly wasted: times six million.

    Hear hear.

    Except 6m is the number of Jews. I believe there were about 5m assorted other “undesirables” - gays, trade unionists, gypsies etc.

    So it should be “so much potential, utterly wasted: times eleven million”
    And all the other soldiers, sailors, airmen and civilians killed in the war, and every war, and the 7- and 8-year-old girls killed at that school in Wimbledon and every dead gang member stabbed by someone from the next postcode. Everyone who dies before their time, or even who is born and lives in the wrong place.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,148
    ...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    edited July 2023



    I don't see why we need a BBC at all. There's nothing it provides that the private sector doesn't, usually rather better. If the BBC didn't exist, there's no way we'd invent it in its current form, like the NHS or the planning system. Like them, it is a relic of a much more statist, homogenous era. Unlike them, it doesn't provide services that otherwise might not be.
    Sorry, no. I've lived in both Australia and the US for many years and the private sector produces absolute crap for news. My son (17) who has never lived in the UK joined me watching the BBC 6 o clock news the other day and couldn't believe how interesting, unsensational and non-parochial it was, especially compared to "ABC World News Tonight" that is rarely about the world or news at all.

    Australia is little better. The ABC there survives very much on buying scraps from the BBC.

    People all over the world access the BBC via VPNs. Almost no one does that for American broadcast news or Australian TV.

    So again, no. Show me a private sector doing it better and I'll listen.

    I agree that there's significant value in having a public broadcaster. It ought though to be funded from general taxation.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,572
    edited July 2023
    Cyclefree and myself have all warned you to avoid Revolut.

    A flaw in Revolut’s payment system in the US allowed criminals to steal more than $20mn of its funds over several months last year before the company could close the loophole, according to multiple people with knowledge of the episode.

    The incident, which has not yet been disclosed publicly, is likely to add further pressure to the highly valued fintech, which has faced a string of senior departures and a qualified audit from BDO while it awaits a banking licence in the UK.

    The problem stemmed from differences between European and US payment systems, which meant that when certain transactions were declined Revolut would erroneously refund accounts, handing them its own money, according to three people with knowledge of the situation.

    Although Revolut recouped part of the roughly $23mn stolen by pursuing some of those who had taken funds, the net loss was about $20mn — equal to almost two-thirds of its annual net profit in 2021, those people added.


    https://www.ft.com/content/0025347f-6e0c-4dbd-9762-e4eec0431050
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    Dura_Ace said:

    Is this one of those of Brexit dividends?

    Brexit tariffs threaten Vauxhall’s mega factory in Luton

    Crippling taxes weaken competitiveness of Britain’s nascent electric vehicle industry


    New Brexit tariffs on electric car parts threaten the future of Vauxhall’s huge factory in Luton, the plant’s director has warned.

    Mark Noble, who runs the Bedfordshire site, warned that crippling taxes applied to vehicles exported into mainland Europe pose a risk to the factory’s competitiveness.

    Under new “rules of origin” laws that come into force from January, 45pc of the value of an electric car must originate from either the UK or the EU. This is due to rise to 65pc in 2027.

    But car makers have urged the Government to roll out a moratorium on the new laws to allow them to catch up with the changes.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/09/brexit-tarrifs-threaten-vauxhall-mega-factory-luton/

    Fuck it. It's only a mega factory which is 1/1000th of a giga factory.

    Also, every Vauxhall product since the Mk.1 GTE has been junk so who cares?
    The people who work there ?
    More generally, Brexit has wrecked any prospects we might have had for a significant share of the EV industry.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    On another note:

    This weekend I stayed in the little Suffolk village of Wangford. A book in the house had a collection of Suffolk stories, and one was of William Smith, a teacher at the village school in the run-up to WW1. He was an ordinary man, except his son lived in Germany for a period, and he went to visit him; and he had a couple of German girls visit.

    When war broke out, this led to rumours of him being a German spy. The rumours got to the authorities, and he was ordered to leave the area. A few days later he committed suicide; his wife did the same a few months later.

    "William died as a result of village gossip, of idle tittle-tattle nothing more."

    Thanks to the Internet the whole world is not a village, and we are seeing gossip and tittle-tattle everywhere we turn. It doesn't matter if we don't like the target of the gossip; it can still be just as hurtful and have real consequences to the innocent.

    https://surname-society.org/false-rumours/

    Yesterday morning I went down to the church to see if I could find his grave to pay my respects; I could not find it (I hadn't seen the link above then).
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,831
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:



    I don't see why we need a BBC at all. There's nothing it provides that the private sector doesn't, usually rather better. If the BBC didn't exist, there's no way we'd invent it in its current form, like the NHS or the planning system. Like them, it is a relic of a much more statist, homogenous era. Unlike them, it doesn't provide services that otherwise might not be.

    Sorry, no. I've lived in both Australia and the US for many years and the private sector produces absolute crap for news. My son (17) who has never lived in the UK joined me watching the BBC 6 o clock news the other day and couldn't believe how interesting, unsensational and non-parochial it was, especially compared to "ABC World News Tonight" that is rarely about the world or news at all.

    Australia is little better. The ABC there survives very much on buying scraps from the BBC.

    People all over the world access the BBC via VPNs. Almost no one does that for American broadcast news or Australian TV.

    So again,, no. Show me a private sector doing it better and I'll listen.
    The BBC suffers from having to do everything for everyone, hence has lots that doesn't appeal to everyone.

    My boys did appreciate CBBC when young, and nice to have advertising free content for them. I haven't watched it since, but glad it still exists.

    I think the problem is more one of "the talent" being indulged to think that the rules do not apply to them. It is a problem in TV, other media, social media influencers, politics, business, pretty much anywhere there is a household name.

    I don't know who this person is, but it isn't the BBC that is sick, but rather our whole celebrity obsessed culture.

    Also, people who aren’t “the talent” also commit similar crimes. It’s just that they don’t get headlines about them.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,566
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:
    I see very little substance to her at the moment. She is undoubtedly qualified and clever but she seems remarkably short of ideas, aspirations or vision. Labour is clearly aware of this, hence this contrived effort for "colour" but when even friendly papers like the Guardian report this for what it is she has a problem.

    At the moment she is coming across as a road block that is making it very difficult for Starmer to commit to anything. Labour gain "credibility" but lose the ability to inspire hope. I am not sure it is a great trade off.
    I think the real roadblock is our annual budget deficit of £130 billion, on top of some of the highest tax rates in our history.

    I notice that the government is getting increasingly nervous about financing it at the new interest rates.
    Remember that Belgian(?) politician after 2008? The one who said "we know what needs to be done, but not how to get elected after doing it?"

    The problem for Sunak and Hunt is the same one that faces Starmer and Reeves. There isn't an answer to all of this that doesn't involve living standards falling. Not because of some elite conspiracy, but because our collective standard of living has risen beyond our ability to pay for it.

    The two things Starmer has going for him are that, assuming he wins in 2024/5, he then has five years to grow and find some green shoots and an obvious scapegoat in the meantime.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,806
    edited July 2023
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:



    I don't see why we need a BBC at all. There's nothing it provides that the private sector doesn't, usually rather better. If the BBC didn't exist, there's no way we'd invent it in its current form, like the NHS or the planning system. Like them, it is a relic of a much more statist, homogenous era. Unlike them, it doesn't provide services that otherwise might not be.

    Sorry, no. I've lived in both Australia and the US for many years and the private sector produces absolute crap for news. My son (17) who has never lived in the UK joined me watching the BBC 6 o clock news the other day and couldn't believe how interesting, unsensational and non-parochial it was, especially compared to "ABC World News Tonight" that is rarely about the world or news at all.

    Australia is little better. The ABC there survives very much on buying scraps from the BBC.

    People all over the world access the BBC via VPNs. Almost no one does that for American broadcast news or Australian TV.

    So again,, no. Show me a private sector doing it better and I'll listen.
    The BBC suffers from having to do everything for everyone, hence has lots that doesn't appeal to everyone.

    My boys did appreciate CBBC when young, and nice to have advertising free content for them. I haven't watched it since, but glad it still exists.

    I think the problem is more one of "the talent" being indulged to think that the rules do not apply to them. It is a problem in TV, other media, social media influencers, politics, business, pretty much anywhere there is a household name.

    I don't know who this person is, but it isn't the BBC that is sick, but rather our whole celebrity obsessed culture.

    My oldest two girls (born 2010 and 2011) watched CBeebies - though Milkshake on Channel 5 and various freeview channels appeared to be providing an equally attractive offer. But its main benefit was that it was always there. By the time my youngest was born in 2014, on-demand viewing of various sorts trumped anything the BBC had to offer.
    None of them ever really got into CBBC, for the same reason: on-demand viewing took away the one competitive advantage of a dedicated children's channel.
    The problem of "on demand viewing" is the algorithms that drive engagement, and take us all into the darkest corners of the internet very quickly.

    Netflix maybe slightly better than YouTube, Facebook or TikTok, but only marginally. It soon starts feeding the cultural hegemony of (American) consumer capitalism and celebrity. The BBC often fails (who doesn't?) but at least it tries to educate more broadly.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,378
    edited July 2023

    Cyclefree and myself have all warned you to avoid Revolut.

    A flaw in Revolut’s payment system in the US allowed criminals to steal more than $20mn of its funds over several months last year before the company could close the loophole, according to multiple people with knowledge of the episode.

    The incident, which has not yet been disclosed publicly, is likely to add further pressure to the highly valued fintech, which has faced a string of senior departures and a qualified audit from BDO while it awaits a banking licence in the UK.

    The problem stemmed from differences between European and US payment systems, which meant that when certain transactions were declined Revolut would erroneously refund accounts, handing them its own money, according to three people with knowledge of the situation.

    Although Revolut recouped part of the roughly $23mn stolen by pursuing some of those who had taken funds, the net loss was about $20mn — equal to almost two-thirds of its annual net profit in 2021, those people added.


    https://www.ft.com/content/0025347f-6e0c-4dbd-9762-e4eec0431050

    ✔️

    A friend of mine tried to persuade me to sign up which I did for a short time before becoming concerned about it. Actually, it was crap for me in parts of Asia where it didn't offer transactions in several local currencies. And I didn't like certain draconian aspects and privacy invasions.

    I've since deleted my Revolut account.

    My friend? Revolut has 'lost' him $2000 during a transfer that neither he nor they can now find.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    The mayor of occupied Melitopol says that the whole Zaporizhzhia region is being mined and booby-trapped: water and electrical installations as well as the nuclear power plant
    https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1678285032698400768
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Good morning, everyone.

    On the BBC; I read yesterday on the red button (which I do use usually once or twice a week) that Sharp reckons the BBC should in future be funded by a tax/fee on broadband.

    I think they can sod off if that's their approach. I work online. I need an internet connection. I don't need the BBC. It's crackers, and unacceptable.

    The TV licence fee is a weird anachronism which exists because it was made way back when, and it doesn't really make sense now. Instituting a new system that's complete insane is not something people will, or should, accept.
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,017
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:



    I don't see why we need a BBC at all. There's nothing it provides that the private sector doesn't, usually rather better. If the BBC didn't exist, there's no way we'd invent it in its current form, like the NHS or the planning system. Like them, it is a relic of a much more statist, homogenous era. Unlike them, it doesn't provide services that otherwise might not be.

    Sorry, no. I've lived in both Australia and the US for many years and the private sector produces absolute crap for news. My son (17) who has never lived in the UK joined me watching the BBC 6 o clock news the other day and couldn't believe how interesting, unsensational and non-parochial it was, especially compared to "ABC World News Tonight" that is rarely about the world or news at all.

    Australia is little better. The ABC there survives very much on buying scraps from the BBC.

    People all over the world access the BBC via VPNs. Almost no one does that for American broadcast news or Australian TV.

    So again,, no. Show me a private sector doing it better and I'll listen.
    The BBC suffers from having to do everything for everyone, hence has lots that doesn't appeal to everyone.

    My boys did appreciate CBBC when young, and nice to have advertising free content for them. I haven't watched it since, but glad it still exists.

    I think the problem is more one of "the talent" being indulged to think that the rules do not apply to them. It is a problem in TV, other media, social media influencers, politics, business, pretty much anywhere there is a household name.

    I don't know who this person is, but it isn't the BBC that is sick, but rather our whole celebrity obsessed culture.

    My oldest two girls (born 2010 and 2011) watched CBeebies - though Milkshake on Channel 5 and various freeview channels appeared to be providing an equally attractive offer. But its main benefit was that it was always there. By the time my youngest was born in 2014, on-demand viewing of various sorts trumped anything the BBC had to offer.
    None of them ever really got into CBBC, for the same reason: on-demand viewing took away the one competitive advantage of a dedicated children's channel.
    My two watched CBeebies, the younger (six) still does, and a bit of CBBC, but entirely on demand (indeed, we don't actually get a TV signal - all our watching is via internet). Older boy (nearly ten) watches Horrible Histories though he is more apt to watch videos on YouTube of planes or The Simpsons on Disney+

    I still think the BBC is excellent value for money and for all its failings (which are broadly similar failings to those found in most large institutions and companies) is a huge net positive and a lynchpin of our cultural and creative industries (which the Tories obviously despise, even though it's one of the few areas where we are genuine world leaders).

  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,536

    Why is the unidentified BBC presenter sexual predator story getting so much more coverage than the one about the unidentified MP accused of rape being allowed to stand as a candidate for the Tories at the next general election? I genuinely don’t get it. Both seem equally bad and to be of equal public interest.

    BBC, echoes of Jimmy Savile, the "child" angle, and the star's anonymity and presumed fame which combine to encourage speculation.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,378
    edited July 2023
    For many years when a news event happened most organisations would send one reporter and one camera operator. Often these were shared across affiliates: Channel 4 and Sky News for instance.

    Not so the BBC. They would have multiple reporters and crew representing branches: so for example, BBC One News, Six O' Clock, Ten O'Clock, Five Live, Radio One, BBC News, Website etc all with their 'own' reporting crew. It wasn't uncommon to see Radio Five and BBC One with separate vans parked outside the same courtroom.

    They had ample opportunity to go private funded, for example if they had made iPlayer a globally-accessible subscription service which would have rivalled anything from Netflix or Sky.

    This is what happens when you have a compulsory tax-funded unaccountable organisation.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,806
    Nigelb said:

    The mayor of occupied Melitopol says that the whole Zaporizhzhia region is being mined and booby-trapped: water and electrical installations as well as the nuclear power plant
    https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1678285032698400768

    If so then it sounds to me that the Russians do not expect to hold it for long.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,368
    Heathener said:

    You surely can't really expect Rachel Reeves and Labour to come out with radical solutions 10 months or 15 months before the next General Election that they are on course to win?

    Since when has that ever been a winning formula?

    Labour have to show economic competence and trustworthiness, not cutting-edge radicalism.

    It may be depressing but when the other party are imploding, you just need to be there and sound sensible.

    They haven't shown anything you said so yourself.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,906
    Heathener said:

    For many years when a news event happened most organisations would send one reporter and one camera operator. Often these were shared across affiliates: Channel 4 and Sky News for instance.

    Not so the BBC. They would have multiple reporters and crew representing branches: so for example, BBC One News, Six O' Clock, Ten O'Clock, Five Live, Radio One, BBC News, Website etc all with their 'own' reporting crew. It wasn't uncommon to see Radio Five and BBC One with separate vans parked outside the same courtroom.

    They had ample opportunity to go private funded, for example if they had made iPlayer a globally-accessible subscription service which would have rivalled anything from Netflix or Sky.

    This is what happens when you have a compulsory tax-funded unaccountable organisation.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. The BBC could never have taken iPlayer global, because they do not own the rights.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    ‘It’s simple and cheap’: the volunteers making Ukraine’s Trembita bomb
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/09/its-simple-and-cheap-the-volunteers-making-ukraine-trembita-bomb
    ...The Ukrainian version has a range of 140km (87 miles). It can carry 25kgs of explosives, and it runs on diesel or petrol that you can buy in the local garage.

    Best of all for Ukraine’s armed forces, the Trembita is cheap. It costs about $3,000 (£2,300) to build the rocket and another $7,000 to equip it with a modern navigation system. ..

  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,017
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:



    I don't see why we need a BBC at all. There's nothing it provides that the private sector doesn't, usually rather better. If the BBC didn't exist, there's no way we'd invent it in its current form, like the NHS or the planning system. Like them, it is a relic of a much more statist, homogenous era. Unlike them, it doesn't provide services that otherwise might not be.

    Sorry, no. I've lived in both Australia and the US for many years and the private sector produces absolute crap for news. My son (17) who has never lived in the UK joined me watching the BBC 6 o clock news the other day and couldn't believe how interesting, unsensational and non-parochial it was, especially compared to "ABC World News Tonight" that is rarely about the world or news at all.

    Australia is little better. The ABC there survives very much on buying scraps from the BBC.

    People all over the world access the BBC via VPNs. Almost no one does that for American broadcast news or Australian TV.

    So again,, no. Show me a private sector doing it better and I'll listen.
    The BBC suffers from having to do everything for everyone, hence has lots that doesn't appeal to everyone.

    My boys did appreciate CBBC when young, and nice to have advertising free content for them. I haven't watched it since, but glad it still exists.

    I think the problem is more one of "the talent" being indulged to think that the rules do not apply to them. It is a problem in TV, other media, social media influencers, politics, business, pretty much anywhere there is a household name.

    I don't know who this person is, but it isn't the BBC that is sick, but rather our whole celebrity obsessed culture.

    My oldest two girls (born 2010 and 2011) watched CBeebies - though Milkshake on Channel 5 and various freeview channels appeared to be providing an equally attractive offer. But its main benefit was that it was always there. By the time my youngest was born in 2014, on-demand viewing of various sorts trumped anything the BBC had to offer.
    None of them ever really got into CBBC, for the same reason: on-demand viewing took away the one competitive advantage of a dedicated children's channel.
    The problem of "on demand viewing" is the algorithms that drive engagement, and take us all into the darkest corners of the internet very quickly.

    Netflix maybe slightly better than YouTube, Facebook or TikTok, but only marginally. It soon starts feeding the cultural hegemony of (American) consumer capitalism and celebrity. The BBC often fails (who doesn't?) but at least it tries to educate more broadly.
    Netflix is starting to struggle, I think. Fewer of the landmark productions and a lot of pretty meh churn programming (and a very haphazard film offering), which is chipping away at its original premium brand image. I'm not alone, I'm sure, in binning it off at £14 a month now. I might re-subscribe the next time we do a Ghibli marathon.

    I had also cancelled Disney+ but turns out we missed some of the stuff on there, so it's back on the menu (boys).
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,368

    Why is the unidentified BBC presenter sexual predator story getting so much more coverage than the one about the unidentified MP accused of rape being allowed to stand as a candidate for the Tories at the next general election? I genuinely don’t get it. Both seem equally bad and to be of equal public interest.

    You obviously are finding guilty before trial... not good.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,578
    Heathener said:

    Cyclefree and myself have all warned you to avoid Revolut.

    A flaw in Revolut’s payment system in the US allowed criminals to steal more than $20mn of its funds over several months last year before the company could close the loophole, according to multiple people with knowledge of the episode.

    The incident, which has not yet been disclosed publicly, is likely to add further pressure to the highly valued fintech, which has faced a string of senior departures and a qualified audit from BDO while it awaits a banking licence in the UK.

    The problem stemmed from differences between European and US payment systems, which meant that when certain transactions were declined Revolut would erroneously refund accounts, handing them its own money, according to three people with knowledge of the situation.

    Although Revolut recouped part of the roughly $23mn stolen by pursuing some of those who had taken funds, the net loss was about $20mn — equal to almost two-thirds of its annual net profit in 2021, those people added.


    https://www.ft.com/content/0025347f-6e0c-4dbd-9762-e4eec0431050

    ✔️

    A friend of mine tried to persuade me to sign up which I did for a short time before becoming concerned about it. Actually, it was crap for me in parts of Asia where it didn't offer transactions in several local currencies. And I didn't like certain draconian aspects and privacy invasions.

    I've since deleted my Revolut account.

    My friend? Revolut has 'lost' him $2000 during a transfer that neither he nor they can now find.
    All the alt-banks should be viewed with caution, until the sector has had a couple of rounds of failures/scandals.

    Use for exchange etc - don’t keep serious sums there.

    One possible exception is the Chase card, since that is backed by an actual bank.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,378
    edited July 2023
    Jonathan said:

    Heathener said:

    For many years when a news event happened most organisations would send one reporter and one camera operator. Often these were shared across affiliates: Channel 4 and Sky News for instance.

    Not so the BBC. They would have multiple reporters and crew representing branches: so for example, BBC One News, Six O' Clock, Ten O'Clock, Five Live, Radio One, BBC News, Website etc all with their 'own' reporting crew. It wasn't uncommon to see Radio Five and BBC One with separate vans parked outside the same courtroom.

    They had ample opportunity to go private funded, for example if they had made iPlayer a globally-accessible subscription service which would have rivalled anything from Netflix or Sky.

    This is what happens when you have a compulsory tax-funded unaccountable organisation.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. The BBC could never have taken iPlayer global, because they do not own the rights.
    To the content of all of their programmes? That's what negotiations are about. You build that in every time you commission a collaborative programme. It's what the private sector does day in, day out, all over the globe.

    The BBC is farcically bloated and lacking in financial nous, partly of course because its hands are tied by an anachronistic pernicious form of state funding. They scare Grannies into propping them up with really vicious nasty court order letters which are literally in red.

    I know. I have a large pile of them. Which I have ignored for years and always will.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,536
    BT is on high alert for a takeover spearheaded by its major shareholder Deutsche Telekom, in what would be a crucial test of Britain’s approach to European investment post-Brexit.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/07/09/bt-high-alert-german-takeover/
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,378

    Why is the unidentified BBC presenter sexual predator story getting so much more coverage than the one about the unidentified MP accused of rape being allowed to stand as a candidate for the Tories at the next general election? I genuinely don’t get it. Both seem equally bad and to be of equal public interest.

    You obviously are finding guilty before trial... not good.
    This general point is a good one but I feel as if we're like Canute on that beach. The internet has rendered presumption of innocence harder and harder to hold.

    Dystopian Black Mirror is here.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Outriders on the right attack any popular public institution they see as a threat, The EU, the BBC, the RNLI, the NHS. It’s big business for them. Hey want to own it all and have no alternative.

    Indeed. No opportunity to make a profit should be missed.

    There is a complete lack of interest in conserving our national institutions by modern "Conservatives".

    It’s far easier to asset strip the public sector and extract rent then become an entrepreneur and come up with something new. A British disease.
    The water companies bring a prime example.

    Listening to the media coverage, it seems quite likely that Thames customers, rather than the 'investors' will get to pay for the excess debt loaded on to the company by Macquarie et al.
    Because we have to maintain confidence in the UK as a destination for investment...
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,378
    edited July 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Outriders on the right attack any popular public institution they see as a threat, The EU, the BBC, the RNLI, the NHS. It’s big business for them. Hey want to own it all and have no alternative.

    Indeed. No opportunity to make a profit should be missed.

    There is a complete lack of interest in conserving our national institutions by modern "Conservatives".

    It’s far easier to asset strip the public sector and extract rent then become an entrepreneur and come up with something new. A British disease.
    The water companies bring a prime example.

    Listening to the media coverage, it seems quite likely that Thames customers, rather than the 'investors' will get to pay for the excess debt loaded on to the company by Macquarie et al.
    Because we have to maintain confidence in the UK as a destination for investment...
    I guess the difference is that water, electricity, gas, and housing are basic needs. There's a compelling case for ensuring that everyone is served by these utilities. Maslow basic needs.

    Unless you think the BBC is an essential utility for life (and there are some who do) then it's not quite the same thing.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 3,993
    edited July 2023
    Alex Chalk v impressive on R4 just now re (obviously as it’s the BBC) the presenter scandal first then the clearly less important issue of rape prosecution. First time I remember a minister or Mp being interviewed where they have actually answered the questions in depth, with detail, facts, empathy and adding personal experience into the mix of being a prosecutor.

    He will be a sad loss to the Tory party if/when he loses Cheltenham. Should be Home Sec rather than Braverman.
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,227
    boulay said:

    Alex Chalk v impressive on R4 just now re (obviously as it’s the BBC) the presenter scandal first then the clearly less important issue of rape prosecution. First time I remember a minister or Mp being interviewed where they have actually answered the questions in depth, with detail, facts, empathy and adding personal experience into the mix of being a prosecutor.

    He will be a sad loss to the Tory party if/when he loses Cheltenham. Should be Home Sec rather than Braverman.

    Braverman being Home Sec instead of someone with a degree of competence is exactly why he needs to lose his seat. He has supported the Government every single step of the way.

  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:



    I don't see why we need a BBC at all. There's nothing it provides that the private sector doesn't, usually rather better. If the BBC didn't exist, there's no way we'd invent it in its current form, like the NHS or the planning system. Like them, it is a relic of a much more statist, homogenous era. Unlike them, it doesn't provide services that otherwise might not be.

    Sorry, no. I've lived in both Australia and the US for many years and the private sector produces absolute crap for news. My son (17) who has never lived in the UK joined me watching the BBC 6 o clock news the other day and couldn't believe how interesting, unsensational and non-parochial it was, especially compared to "ABC World News Tonight" that is rarely about the world or news at all.

    Australia is little better. The ABC there survives very much on buying scraps from the BBC.

    People all over the world access the BBC via VPNs. Almost no one does that for American broadcast news or Australian TV.

    So again,, no. Show me a private sector doing it better and I'll listen.
    The BBC suffers from having to do everything for everyone, hence has lots that doesn't appeal to everyone.

    My boys did appreciate CBBC when young, and nice to have advertising free content for them. I haven't watched it since, but glad it still exists.

    I think the problem is more one of "the talent" being indulged to think that the rules do not apply to them. It is a problem in TV, other media, social media influencers, politics, business, pretty much anywhere there is a household name.

    I don't know who this person is, but it isn't the BBC that is sick, but rather our whole celebrity obsessed culture.

    My oldest two girls (born 2010 and 2011) watched CBeebies - though Milkshake on Channel 5 and various freeview channels appeared to be providing an equally attractive offer. But its main benefit was that it was always there. By the time my youngest was born in 2014, on-demand viewing of various sorts trumped anything the BBC had to offer.
    None of them ever really got into CBBC, for the same reason: on-demand viewing took away the one competitive advantage of a dedicated children's channel.
    The problem of "on demand viewing" is the algorithms that drive engagement, and take us all into the darkest corners of the internet very quickly.

    Netflix maybe slightly better than YouTube, Facebook or TikTok, but only marginally. It soon starts feeding the cultural hegemony of (American) consumer capitalism and celebrity. The BBC often fails (who doesn't?) but at least it tries to educate more broadly.
    That's true, and that is a concern. And even before you go squirrelling inadvertently around the darkest corners of the internet, the general cultural tone of Netflix, Amazon, Disney is rather less palatable to yer standard grumpy rightwing provincial Englishman than even the BBC. They're all made by metropolitan showbiz types. And even if you could avoid the license fee, they're bloody expensive.
    But at least none of these send the heavies round to force you to buy their products.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,140

    Good morning, everyone.

    On the BBC; I read yesterday on the red button (which I do use usually once or twice a week) that Sharp reckons the BBC should in future be funded by a tax/fee on broadband.

    I think they can sod off if that's their approach. I work online. I need an internet connection. I don't need the BBC. It's crackers, and unacceptable.

    The TV licence fee is a weird anachronism which exists because it was made way back when, and it doesn't really make sense now. Instituting a new system that's complete insane is not something people will, or should, accept.

    I'm not sure many people really need a TV licence these days. Having to watch a TV program at a particular time has got to be rather a quaint concept.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,906
    Heathener said:

    Jonathan said:

    Heathener said:

    For many years when a news event happened most organisations would send one reporter and one camera operator. Often these were shared across affiliates: Channel 4 and Sky News for instance.

    Not so the BBC. They would have multiple reporters and crew representing branches: so for example, BBC One News, Six O' Clock, Ten O'Clock, Five Live, Radio One, BBC News, Website etc all with their 'own' reporting crew. It wasn't uncommon to see Radio Five and BBC One with separate vans parked outside the same courtroom.

    They had ample opportunity to go private funded, for example if they had made iPlayer a globally-accessible subscription service which would have rivalled anything from Netflix or Sky.

    This is what happens when you have a compulsory tax-funded unaccountable organisation.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. The BBC could never have taken iPlayer global, because they do not own the rights.
    To the content of all of their programmes? That's what negotiations are about. You build that in every time you commission a collaborative programme. It's what the private sector does day in, day out, all over the globe.

    The BBC is farcically bloated and lacking in financial nous, partly of course because its hands are tied by an anachronistic pernicious form of state funding. They scare Grannies into propping them up with really vicious nasty court order letters which are literally in red.

    I know. I have a large pile of them. Which I have ignored for years and always will.
    You really don’t know what you are talking about. Yes, the BBC own very narrow rights to broadcast “their own” programmes in the UK for a limit period. I am it sure if it is the case today, but originally iPlayer used the same rules for catch up/ time shift TV. Saves a lot of money. Global rights are a negotiated separately with the production company.

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,790
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:



    I don't see why we need a BBC at all. There's nothing it provides that the private sector doesn't, usually rather better. If the BBC didn't exist, there's no way we'd invent it in its current form, like the NHS or the planning system. Like them, it is a relic of a much more statist, homogenous era. Unlike them, it doesn't provide services that otherwise might not be.

    Sorry, no. I've lived in both Australia and the US for many years and the private sector produces absolute crap for news. My son (17) who has never lived in the UK joined me watching the BBC 6 o clock news the other day and couldn't believe how interesting, unsensational and non-parochial it was, especially compared to "ABC World News Tonight" that is rarely about the world or news at all.

    Australia is little better. The ABC there survives very much on buying scraps from the BBC.

    People all over the world access the BBC via VPNs. Almost no one does that for American broadcast news or Australian TV.

    So again,, no. Show me a private sector doing it better and I'll listen.
    The BBC suffers from having to do everything for everyone, hence has lots that doesn't appeal to everyone.

    My boys did appreciate CBBC when young, and nice to have advertising free content for them. I haven't watched it since, but glad it still exists.

    I think the problem is more one of "the talent" being indulged to think that the rules do not apply to them. It is a problem in TV, other media, social media influencers, politics, business, pretty much anywhere there is a household name.

    I don't know who this person is, but it isn't the BBC that is sick, but rather our whole celebrity obsessed culture.

    My oldest two girls (born 2010 and 2011) watched CBeebies - though Milkshake on Channel 5 and various freeview channels appeared to be providing an equally attractive offer. But its main benefit was that it was always there. By the time my youngest was born in 2014, on-demand viewing of various sorts trumped anything the BBC had to offer.
    None of them ever really got into CBBC, for the same reason: on-demand viewing took away the one competitive advantage of a dedicated children's channel.
    The problem of "on demand viewing" is the algorithms that drive engagement, and take us all into the darkest corners of the internet very quickly.

    Netflix maybe slightly better than YouTube, Facebook or TikTok, but only marginally. It soon starts feeding the cultural hegemony of (American) consumer capitalism and celebrity. The BBC often fails (who doesn't?) but at least it tries to educate more broadly.
    That's true, and that is a concern. And even before you go squirrelling inadvertently around the darkest corners of the internet, the general cultural tone of Netflix, Amazon, Disney is rather less palatable to yer standard grumpy rightwing provincial Englishman than even the BBC. They're all made by metropolitan showbiz types. And even if you could avoid the license fee, they're bloody expensive.
    But at least none of these send the heavies round to force you to buy their products.
    The Venn diagram of those who bang on about the importance of Britain's 'soft power', and those who denigrate the BBC, has a surprisingly large intersect group, which should be labelled 'Hypocrites'.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970

    Why is the unidentified BBC presenter sexual predator story getting so much more coverage than the one about the unidentified MP accused of rape being allowed to stand as a candidate for the Tories at the next general election? I genuinely don’t get it. Both seem equally bad and to be of equal public interest.

    You obviously are finding guilty before trial... not good.
    You obviously did not understand my point … not surprising.

This discussion has been closed.