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Liz Truss attempts to be relevant – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,689
edited April 2023 in General
Liz Truss attempts to be relevant – politicalbetting.com

You can't expect economic growth and prosperity when companies are more focused on meeting meaningless diversity quotas and complying with radical climate change standards, rather than engaging in competition and generating money for their employees and the country. pic.twitter.com/flF9TSSxzq

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Comments

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    Good Luck Liz!
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    She needs to apologise to her old school first.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,472
    You tell 'em Liz.
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    But big shout out to Doug Seal who saw the Liz Truss comeback before anybody else.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,303

    But big shout out to Doug Seal who saw the Liz Truss comeback before anybody else.

    *Raises eyebrows*

    I never knew.

    This was some time ago, presumably?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,987
    "Generate money for their employees?"
    Unless they are a profit sharing co-operative they don't do that anyway do they?
    Or is payment of a wage for a task done an act of kindly altruism?
    Or can the Heritage Foundation simply not express itself in plain English?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667
    Twitter releases more political ad data after POLITICO report
    Twitter’s latest data shows revenue from political advertising since early March was more than 50 times higher than the company had previously reported.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/12/twitter-releases-more-political-ad-data-after-politico-report-00091667
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,500
    Full marks for sheer pluck.

    I mean, if I had ever messed up that badly at work, I doubt I would have wanted to show my face ever again.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,793
    I'm not sure quite why she doesn't realise she's made herself into the definition of wrong.

    Icarus gets a better press.

    Of course she wasn't entirely wrong about all things, and she may not be so hopelessly wrong in the future, but the 'Liz Truss says' brand is simply the worst brand in politics ever. (There may have been slightly worse popes, but they're sometimes infallibly bad)

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    Full marks for sheer pluck.

    I mean, if I had ever messed up that badly at work, I doubt I would have wanted to show my face ever again.

    I wish I had the amount of self confidence and chutzpah Liz Truss possess.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667
    “Radical climate change…”

    Still utterly delusional.
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,612
    Liz Truss would be perfect for the old "What's My Line?" TV show!

    What's My Line? Election Day Special
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll_l5_lLifg

    Must say, LT but a pimple on the hind-end of creation, compared to Margaret Chase Smith.

    OR even Karl Mundt!
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,500

    Liz Truss would be perfect for the old "What's My Line?" TV show!

    What's My Line? Election Day Special
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll_l5_lLifg

    Must say, LT but a pimple on the hind-end of creation, compared to Margaret Chase Smith.

    OR even Karl Mundt!

    More "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue".

    Except she doesn't seem that sorry.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,472
    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,709

    Full marks for sheer pluck.

    I mean, if I had ever messed up that badly at work, I doubt I would have wanted to show my face ever again.

    I wish I had the amount of self confidence and chutzpah Liz Truss possess.
    Spelled "delusion"?
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    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Only when Liz Truss admits her mistakes.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    You tell 'em Liz.

    Didn't she talk about ensuring you win the argument so you can enact change? How is it our fault if she accepts she failed to do that?

    If she had sounded more convincing then just saying 'Growth is a good thing' then looking like a deer in headlights when asked about tax cuts she might have done a better job.
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    DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    dixiedean said:

    "Generate money for their employees?"
    Unless they are a profit sharing co-operative they don't do that anyway do they?
    Or is payment of a wage for a task done an act of kindly altruism?
    Or can the Heritage Foundation simply not express itself in plain English?

    How do they pay salaries if not by generating money?
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,612

    Full marks for sheer pluck.

    I mean, if I had ever messed up that badly at work, I doubt I would have wanted to show my face ever again.

    Full marks for increasing her bank balance at the expense of credulous Americans.

    BTW, the Heritage Foundation is SO 20th century. About as influential in today's debates as the Mickey Mouse Club.

    BTW (also FYI) following election of You Know Who, the HF has gone full MAGA.

    For example (from their wiki page):

    "Heritage Action opposed the $40 billion military aid package for Ukraine passed in May 2022 after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, breaking from its previous positions of support for such aid. The Heritage Foundation's foreign policy director at the time, Luke Coffey, said he was ordered to retract his earlier statements supporting aid to Ukraine. Coffey subsequently left the Heritage Foundation."
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,472

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Only when Liz Truss admits her mistakes.
    Yes, the insistence on Liz repenting and dressing herself in sackcloth and ashes for daring to defy the forces of 'dull competence [sic]' is another delightful feature of the PB claw-sharpening that goes on whenever she says anything.
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    Doesn't Liz need to get arrested if she wants to be relevant now?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Tedious it may be. But is it unfairly tedious? I think a lot of people are clear they would like an alternative to how things are currently managed. It's one reason a lot of people were so enthusiastic about Corbyn, albeit a very different kind of project.

    Political leaders have to expect opposition to their ideas, and overcome them if they believe it to be a good idea. Some good ideas will fail when they don't manage it. Many bad ideas will also fail when they don't manage it, and occasionally we get lucky and they do manage to get a good idea through.

    Truss didn't manage it. Things are crappy enough she could improve her reputation by saying she wanted to do things differently (even as she presented as the continuity candidate in the leadership contest in every other way). But if she seems like she is complaining about the fact people opposed her plans she will find that hard.
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,556

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Yes. Not required. A tiny number of people get to be PM of this great country. Liz Truss is one of them. I have no doubt that she has/had great vision and ideas, though the straw men of the snippet doesn't display them well.

    It is hard to exaggerate the extent to which, having been given this golden ticket of being PM, she blew it by hubris, incompetence and disdain.

    To get to be PM and overlook the fact that implementation of radical change in a parliamentary democracy is difficult political art is as big a fail, if not bigger, than Cameron's failure to prepare a plan for Brexit.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,040
    algarkirk said:

    as big a fail, if not bigger, than Cameron's failure to prepare a plan for Brexit.

    The failure to prepare for Brexit doesn't lie with those who didn't want it, campaigned against it, and pointed out what a clusterfuck it would be.
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,612
    dixiedean said:

    "Generate money for their employees?"
    Unless they are a profit sharing co-operative they don't do that anyway do they?
    Or is payment of a wage for a task done an act of kindly altruism?
    Or can the Heritage Foundation simply not express itself in plain English?

    Heritage Foundation used to be a power in the land.

    Now it's just a clapped-out clique of MAGA-maniacs. And Putin suck-ups.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Only when Liz Truss admits her mistakes.
    Yes, the insistence on Liz repenting and dressing herself in sackcloth and ashes for daring to defy the forces of 'dull competence [sic]' is another delightful feature of the PB claw-sharpening that goes on whenever she says anything.
    The ridicule is deserved.
    I suspect her fat fee will be some recompense.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Only when Liz Truss admits her mistakes.
    Yes, the insistence on Liz repenting and dressing herself in sackcloth and ashes for daring to defy the forces of 'dull competence [sic]' is another delightful feature of the PB claw-sharpening that goes on whenever she says anything.
    Is that really all she did? Was there nothing she could have done to be more prepared, or encourage more support for her goals?

    A PM being ousted so swiftly is utterly unprecented - I don't think she needs to be permanently ostracised, but I do think the rebuttal that she was defeated by the forces of the deep state or establushment or anti growth coalition or whatever it is called to be a bit misplaced, since unless she was a once in a century talent all PMs face challenges, and none of them collapsed instantly in the face of that. At some level that is on her.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,205

    She annoys me more than pineapple on pizza.

    The biggest arse ache at work when it comes to not achieving growth is the absolute turd that is the current Brexit deal, then a government that tried to ignore the markets.

    And then she starts going on about woke too.

    Her biggest opponents were the money markets. Hardly a bastion of wokeness. She’s deluded as to why she failed.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    dixiedean said:

    "Generate money for their employees?"
    Unless they are a profit sharing co-operative they don't do that anyway do they?
    Or is payment of a wage for a task done an act of kindly altruism?
    Or can the Heritage Foundation simply not express itself in plain English?

    Heritage Foundation used to be a power in the land.

    Now it's just a clapped-out clique of MAGA-maniacs. And Putin suck-ups.
    I don't know about the USA, but do think tanks ever really have power? They seem to exist for no other reason than to give politicians a pretend feeling their ideas are based on some kind of coherent ideology, rather than some loose, probably contradictory set of ideals. And to provide a ready source of one touch removed political quotes for news organisations.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,748

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Fair! The total nonentity that is Liz Truss really isn't worth it.
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    TresTres Posts: 2,230
    Well once we are out of the IMF, ECHR, UN and NATO we will finally see the benefits of Brexit.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820
    Out of curiosity, how do ex-Presidents make their money after leaving office?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,408
    algarkirk said:

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Yes. Not required. A tiny number of people get to be PM of this great country. Liz Truss is one of them. I have no doubt that she has/had great vision and ideas, though the straw men of the snippet doesn't display them well.

    It is hard to exaggerate the extent to which, having been given this golden ticket of being PM, she blew it by hubris, incompetence and disdain.

    To get to be PM and overlook the fact that implementation of radical change in a parliamentary democracy is difficult political art is as big a fail, if not bigger, than Cameron's failure to prepare a plan for Brexit.
    Yes, it's worth noting that she wasn't wrong about absolutely everything- and we do have a growth and productivity problem.

    It's just that (unfunded) shock & awe tax cuts - seemingly alone - were a pretty crazy way to do it, unless she could demonstrate it would be self-funding in fairly short order to the satisfaction of the markets lending the money.

    The rest is dogma.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,408
    Can someone please pay me £10k to deliver a speech please?

    I could say all sorts of stuff. Nazis. Pineapple. Innuendo. Betting tips.

    I've got it all.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    eek said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Optimal scenario for the US system of government:

    1) Trump loses in the primaries to DeSantis;

    2) Butthurt, he alleges vote rigging and runs as an independent;

    3) DeSantis quits as Governor of Florida to focus on being nominee;

    4) Biden selects Whitmer, Ossoff or Buttigieg as his VP;

    5) Biden wins in an absolute landslide, due to the split vote, consigning both Trump and DeSantis to the outer darkness;

    6) Biden then retires for undisclosed health reasons, leaving a capable President in charge;

    7) A sane Republican nominee - Haley, perhaps? - emerges in 2028 and wins easily.

    4 and 6 are not essential, but they would be optimal.

    I think point 4 - maybe not necessarily one of those, but a VP who is sensible, competent and doesn't drive away swing voters - is actually essential. If Biden does that he's going to win by a landslide that even the paranoid would see couldn't be overturned.

    The problem is, the VP role is occupied by someone who doesn't necessarily fulfil any of those three requirements. And who was the last POTUS to jettison their VP before their re-election bid?
    Harris needs to be offloaded elsewhere sooner rather than later. Isn't she a lawyer so the ideal plan would be to send her to the Supreme court (which I'm sure was a rumoured plan).
    The idea of sending a mediocre politician to the Supreme Court for political convenience is disturbing.
    Well, yes, but if her lawyering skills are reasonable then her being a mediocre politician would not make her out of place on the Court.
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    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,949
    FPT:
    viewcode said:

    I appreciate that you all seem to be invested around Succession, but I need to point out that we are close to Star Trek Picard series 3 episode 9 of 10. Leaked screenshots of the last episodes are available online and they give away crucial plot points including who the main villain is. If you want links to same please let me know.

    [evil grin]

    Please tell me it's the Tribbles.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667
    Taz said:

    She annoys me more than pineapple on pizza.

    The biggest arse ache at work when it comes to not achieving growth is the absolute turd that is the current Brexit deal, then a government that tried to ignore the markets.

    And then she starts going on about woke too.

    Her biggest opponents were the money markets. Hardly a bastion of wokeness. She’s deluded as to why she failed.
    Just rhetoric tailored to the audience.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,748
    dixiedean said:

    "Generate money for their employees?"
    Unless they are a profit sharing co-operative they don't do that anyway do they?
    Or is payment of a wage for a task done an act of kindly altruism?
    Or can the Heritage Foundation simply not express itself in plain English?

    Indeed. The point of the Heritage Foundation is employees should be paid as little as businesses can get away with.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    Can someone please pay me £10k to deliver a speech please?

    I could say all sorts of stuff. Nazis. Pineapple. Innuendo. Betting tips.

    I've got it all.

    Well, I don't have 10k, but I think if you said this you'd have an audience, since it cuts to the heart of things pretty well.

    algarkirk said:

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Yes. Not required. A tiny number of people get to be PM of this great country. Liz Truss is one of them. I have no doubt that she has/had great vision and ideas, though the straw men of the snippet doesn't display them well.

    It is hard to exaggerate the extent to which, having been given this golden ticket of being PM, she blew it by hubris, incompetence and disdain.

    To get to be PM and overlook the fact that implementation of radical change in a parliamentary democracy is difficult political art is as big a fail, if not bigger, than Cameron's failure to prepare a plan for Brexit.
    It's just that (unfunded) shock & awe tax cuts - seemingly alone - were a pretty crazy way to do it, unless she could demonstrate it would be self-funding in fairly short order to the satisfaction of the markets lending the money.
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,612
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    "Generate money for their employees?"
    Unless they are a profit sharing co-operative they don't do that anyway do they?
    Or is payment of a wage for a task done an act of kindly altruism?
    Or can the Heritage Foundation simply not express itself in plain English?

    Heritage Foundation used to be a power in the land.

    Now it's just a clapped-out clique of MAGA-maniacs. And Putin suck-ups.
    I don't know about the USA, but do think tanks ever really have power? They seem to exist for no other reason than to give politicians a pretend feeling their ideas are based on some kind of coherent ideology, rather than some loose, probably contradictory set of ideals. And to provide a ready source of one touch removed political quotes for news organisations.
    Don't know about UK, but in USA number of think tanks have been quite influential & significant politically.

    Such as the Heritage Foundation, in its day. Which came and went a while back.
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    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,448
    edited April 2023
    kle4 said:

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Only when Liz Truss admits her mistakes.
    Yes, the insistence on Liz repenting and dressing herself in sackcloth and ashes for daring to defy the forces of 'dull competence [sic]' is another delightful feature of the PB claw-sharpening that goes on whenever she says anything.
    Is that really all she did? Was there nothing she could have done to be more prepared, or encourage more support for her goals?

    A PM being ousted so swiftly is utterly unprecented - I don't think she needs to be permanently ostracised, but I do think the rebuttal that she was defeated by the forces of the deep state or establushment or anti growth coalition or whatever it is called to be a bit misplaced, since unless she was a once in a century talent all PMs face challenges, and none of them collapsed instantly in the face of that. At some level that is on her.
    The only reason she's any status is some very wealthy people like hearing their own ideas regurgitated from these 'think tank' networks.

    She's got to roll back down the political hill or what is the penalty for pushing such ridiculous policies?
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    I can understand why people think I drew this cartoon but I didn't.


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    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,949
    Again FPT (sorry):

    This is Javier Milei, Argentine right wing presidential candidate

    Fabricant should get some tips


    On first glance I thought that was Bob Mortimer doing a character.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    "Generate money for their employees?"
    Unless they are a profit sharing co-operative they don't do that anyway do they?
    Or is payment of a wage for a task done an act of kindly altruism?
    Or can the Heritage Foundation simply not express itself in plain English?

    Heritage Foundation used to be a power in the land.

    Now it's just a clapped-out clique of MAGA-maniacs. And Putin suck-ups.
    I don't know about the USA, but do think tanks ever really have power? They seem to exist for no other reason than to give politicians a pretend feeling their ideas are based on some kind of coherent ideology, rather than some loose, probably contradictory set of ideals. And to provide a ready source of one touch removed political quotes for news organisations.
    Don't know about UK, but in USA number of think tanks have been quite influential & significant politically.

    Such as the Heritage Foundation, in its day. Which came and went a while back.
    Who are the big hitters now?
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,556
    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    as big a fail, if not bigger, than Cameron's failure to prepare a plan for Brexit.

    The failure to prepare for Brexit doesn't lie with those who didn't want it, campaigned against it, and pointed out what a clusterfuck it would be.
    There were just 2 possible outcomes of a process the PM initiated by his government's legislation, knowing that either was about equally possible. No other body than government can have the civil service assist in preparing for governing eventualities. Cameron was at fault.
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    kle4 said:

    eek said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Optimal scenario for the US system of government:

    1) Trump loses in the primaries to DeSantis;

    2) Butthurt, he alleges vote rigging and runs as an independent;

    3) DeSantis quits as Governor of Florida to focus on being nominee;

    4) Biden selects Whitmer, Ossoff or Buttigieg as his VP;

    5) Biden wins in an absolute landslide, due to the split vote, consigning both Trump and DeSantis to the outer darkness;

    6) Biden then retires for undisclosed health reasons, leaving a capable President in charge;

    7) A sane Republican nominee - Haley, perhaps? - emerges in 2028 and wins easily.

    4 and 6 are not essential, but they would be optimal.

    I think point 4 - maybe not necessarily one of those, but a VP who is sensible, competent and doesn't drive away swing voters - is actually essential. If Biden does that he's going to win by a landslide that even the paranoid would see couldn't be overturned.

    The problem is, the VP role is occupied by someone who doesn't necessarily fulfil any of those three requirements. And who was the last POTUS to jettison their VP before their re-election bid?
    Harris needs to be offloaded elsewhere sooner rather than later. Isn't she a lawyer so the ideal plan would be to send her to the Supreme court (which I'm sure was a rumoured plan).
    The idea of sending a mediocre politician to the Supreme Court for political convenience is disturbing.
    Well, yes, but if her lawyering skills are reasonable then her being a mediocre politician would not make her out of place on the Court.
    I don't think anyone has claimed Harris is an intellectual legal giant...
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    ohnotnow said:

    FPT:

    viewcode said:

    I appreciate that you all seem to be invested around Succession, but I need to point out that we are close to Star Trek Picard series 3 episode 9 of 10. Leaked screenshots of the last episodes are available online and they give away crucial plot points including who the main villain is. If you want links to same please let me know.

    [evil grin]

    Please tell me it's the Tribbles.
    No Picard spoilers.

    Anyone spoiling Picard for me will see me a deliver a righteous anger that you would mistake me for Jules Winnfield.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,408
    I could also try the full Lord Flashheart for the after dinner circuit if I get short of material:

    "Hey girls, look at my machinery!"
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,709

    kle4 said:

    eek said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Optimal scenario for the US system of government:

    1) Trump loses in the primaries to DeSantis;

    2) Butthurt, he alleges vote rigging and runs as an independent;

    3) DeSantis quits as Governor of Florida to focus on being nominee;

    4) Biden selects Whitmer, Ossoff or Buttigieg as his VP;

    5) Biden wins in an absolute landslide, due to the split vote, consigning both Trump and DeSantis to the outer darkness;

    6) Biden then retires for undisclosed health reasons, leaving a capable President in charge;

    7) A sane Republican nominee - Haley, perhaps? - emerges in 2028 and wins easily.

    4 and 6 are not essential, but they would be optimal.

    I think point 4 - maybe not necessarily one of those, but a VP who is sensible, competent and doesn't drive away swing voters - is actually essential. If Biden does that he's going to win by a landslide that even the paranoid would see couldn't be overturned.

    The problem is, the VP role is occupied by someone who doesn't necessarily fulfil any of those three requirements. And who was the last POTUS to jettison their VP before their re-election bid?
    Harris needs to be offloaded elsewhere sooner rather than later. Isn't she a lawyer so the ideal plan would be to send her to the Supreme court (which I'm sure was a rumoured plan).
    The idea of sending a mediocre politician to the Supreme Court for political convenience is disturbing.
    Well, yes, but if her lawyering skills are reasonable then her being a mediocre politician would not make her out of place on the Court.
    I don't think anyone has claimed Harris is an intellectual legal giant...
    She shouldn't be out of place then with the other numpties.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,980

    ohnotnow said:

    FPT:

    viewcode said:

    I appreciate that you all seem to be invested around Succession, but I need to point out that we are close to Star Trek Picard series 3 episode 9 of 10. Leaked screenshots of the last episodes are available online and they give away crucial plot points including who the main villain is. If you want links to same please let me know.

    [evil grin]

    Please tell me it's the Tribbles.
    No Picard spoilers.

    Anyone spoiling Picard for me will see me a deliver a righteous anger that you would mistake me for Jules Winnfield.
    I've not seen any episodes, nor know anything about it. If this is the last season I may have to binge watch over a long weekend.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,472
    kle4 said:

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Tedious it may be. But is it unfairly tedious? I think a lot of people are clear they would like an alternative to how things are currently managed. It's one reason a lot of people were so enthusiastic about Corbyn, albeit a very different kind of project.

    Political leaders have to expect opposition to their ideas, and overcome them if they believe it to be a good idea. Some good ideas will fail when they don't manage it. Many bad ideas will also fail when they don't manage it, and occasionally we get lucky and they do manage to get a good idea through.

    Truss didn't manage it. Things are crappy enough she could improve her reputation by saying she wanted to do things differently (even as she presented as the continuity candidate in the leadership contest in every other way). But if she seems like she is complaining about the fact people opposed her plans she will find that hard.
    But why does this need to be re-hashed? Of course Liz Truss didn't succeed as PM - if she'd succeeded, she would still be PM, regardless of the very real circumstantial and political obstacles that stood in her way, which Sunak has neatly dodged with his supine acquiescence in being completely shit.

    The people who think this political failure requires her to maintain a trappist silence forever (who also happen to be people who were vigorously opposed to her agenda) have said their bit - I'm not sure what new they think they're bringing to the conversation.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,040
    algarkirk said:

    No other body than government can have the civil service assist in preparing for governing eventualities. Cameron was at fault.

    Nope

    Until the vote it wasn't an eventuality, and after the vote Cameron wasn't PM
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    kle4 said:

    eek said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Optimal scenario for the US system of government:

    1) Trump loses in the primaries to DeSantis;

    2) Butthurt, he alleges vote rigging and runs as an independent;

    3) DeSantis quits as Governor of Florida to focus on being nominee;

    4) Biden selects Whitmer, Ossoff or Buttigieg as his VP;

    5) Biden wins in an absolute landslide, due to the split vote, consigning both Trump and DeSantis to the outer darkness;

    6) Biden then retires for undisclosed health reasons, leaving a capable President in charge;

    7) A sane Republican nominee - Haley, perhaps? - emerges in 2028 and wins easily.

    4 and 6 are not essential, but they would be optimal.

    I think point 4 - maybe not necessarily one of those, but a VP who is sensible, competent and doesn't drive away swing voters - is actually essential. If Biden does that he's going to win by a landslide that even the paranoid would see couldn't be overturned.

    The problem is, the VP role is occupied by someone who doesn't necessarily fulfil any of those three requirements. And who was the last POTUS to jettison their VP before their re-election bid?
    Harris needs to be offloaded elsewhere sooner rather than later. Isn't she a lawyer so the ideal plan would be to send her to the Supreme court (which I'm sure was a rumoured plan).
    The idea of sending a mediocre politician to the Supreme Court for political convenience is disturbing.
    Well, yes, but if her lawyering skills are reasonable then her being a mediocre politician would not make her out of place on the Court.
    I don't think anyone has claimed Harris is an intellectual legal giant...
    I did say "if".
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,333
    I think Liz was brave in the best sense of the word and was attempting to do something genuinely innovative.

    Where she showed herself manifestly unsuited to the job, however, was in not understanding, via incompetence or hubris, that the markets wouldn't give her a free pass just because she had a new plan.

    Anyone can be genuinely innovative if they ignore the consequences of their actions and don't plan to address any likely criticism in advance and this is where she failed and failed badly.

    All the markets needed, all we needed was a "costed" plan which explained where the money would come from. It might have strained credibility but at least we would have seen her workings. And, given the subject of his PhD I cannot believe that Kwasi didn't have some workings somewhere.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    kle4 said:

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Tedious it may be. But is it unfairly tedious? I think a lot of people are clear they would like an alternative to how things are currently managed. It's one reason a lot of people were so enthusiastic about Corbyn, albeit a very different kind of project.

    Political leaders have to expect opposition to their ideas, and overcome them if they believe it to be a good idea. Some good ideas will fail when they don't manage it. Many bad ideas will also fail when they don't manage it, and occasionally we get lucky and they do manage to get a good idea through.

    Truss didn't manage it. Things are crappy enough she could improve her reputation by saying she wanted to do things differently (even as she presented as the continuity candidate in the leadership contest in every other way). But if she seems like she is complaining about the fact people opposed her plans she will find that hard.
    But why does this need to be re-hashed? Of course Liz Truss didn't succeed as PM - if she'd succeeded, she would still be PM, regardless of the very real circumstantial and political obstacles that stood in her way, which Sunak has neatly dodged with his supine acquiescence in being completely shit.

    The people who think this political failure requires her to maintain a trappist silence forever (who also happen to be people who were vigorously opposed to her agenda) have said their bit - I'm not sure what new they think they're bringing to the conversation.
    It might need to be rehashed because she is commenting about it, and naturally is presenting the best possible explanation for what happened, which invites responses. What new is she bringing after all? But as you say she shouldn't have to be silent. Therefore when she justifies herself she will face rebuttal, and probably always will. That's consequence.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,311

    Can someone please pay me £10k to deliver a speech please?

    I could say all sorts of stuff. Nazis. Pineapple. Innuendo. Betting tips.

    I've got it all.

    Weave all that into a solid helping of anti-woke rhetoric and I expect you'd find a large enough audience on YouTube if you wanted it.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,408
    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    as big a fail, if not bigger, than Cameron's failure to prepare a plan for Brexit.

    The failure to prepare for Brexit doesn't lie with those who didn't want it, campaigned against it, and pointed out what a clusterfuck it would be.
    There were just 2 possible outcomes of a process the PM initiated by his government's legislation, knowing that either was about equally possible. No other body than government can have the civil service assist in preparing for governing eventualities. Cameron was at fault.
    They thought it was an 80%+ chance they'd win 60:40. Remain had whopping leads pre-campaign, and they thought undecideds would break for that rather than Leave as they actually did.

    But, please, let's not debate it again.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,612

    kle4 said:

    eek said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Optimal scenario for the US system of government:

    1) Trump loses in the primaries to DeSantis;

    2) Butthurt, he alleges vote rigging and runs as an independent;

    3) DeSantis quits as Governor of Florida to focus on being nominee;

    4) Biden selects Whitmer, Ossoff or Buttigieg as his VP;

    5) Biden wins in an absolute landslide, due to the split vote, consigning both Trump and DeSantis to the outer darkness;

    6) Biden then retires for undisclosed health reasons, leaving a capable President in charge;

    7) A sane Republican nominee - Haley, perhaps? - emerges in 2028 and wins easily.

    4 and 6 are not essential, but they would be optimal.

    I think point 4 - maybe not necessarily one of those, but a VP who is sensible, competent and doesn't drive away swing voters - is actually essential. If Biden does that he's going to win by a landslide that even the paranoid would see couldn't be overturned.

    The problem is, the VP role is occupied by someone who doesn't necessarily fulfil any of those three requirements. And who was the last POTUS to jettison their VP before their re-election bid?
    Harris needs to be offloaded elsewhere sooner rather than later. Isn't she a lawyer so the ideal plan would be to send her to the Supreme court (which I'm sure was a rumoured plan).
    The idea of sending a mediocre politician to the Supreme Court for political convenience is disturbing.
    Well, yes, but if her lawyering skills are reasonable then her being a mediocre politician would not make her out of place on the Court.
    I don't think anyone has claimed Harris is an intellectual legal giant...
    NOT a legal or practical requirement. As quick review of past & present SCOTUS will confirm.

    Until latter 20th century, few inside OR outside the Beltway even pretended that Supremes were ipso facto legal giants.

    Was argument on behalf of a few, for example Oliver Wendell Holmes. But NOT the norm, which was MUCH more oriented to politically-connected and/or -relevant lawyers, including many who had little experience as judges, or even in conventional legal practice.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    "Generate money for their employees?"
    Unless they are a profit sharing co-operative they don't do that anyway do they?
    Or is payment of a wage for a task done an act of kindly altruism?
    Or can the Heritage Foundation simply not express itself in plain English?

    Heritage Foundation used to be a power in the land.

    Now it's just a clapped-out clique of MAGA-maniacs. And Putin suck-ups.
    I don't know about the USA, but do think tanks ever really have power? They seem to exist for no other reason than to give politicians a pretend feeling their ideas are based on some kind of coherent ideology, rather than some loose, probably contradictory set of ideals. And to provide a ready source of one touch removed political quotes for news organisations.
    They’re also somewhere to keep your political allies in well paid jobs while you’re out of office. Remember that incoming administrations staff themselves largely with unelected people who aren’t full time civil servants.

    In the US some are substantial bases of political power and influence.
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,062
    kle4 said:

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Only when Liz Truss admits her mistakes.
    Yes, the insistence on Liz repenting and dressing herself in sackcloth and ashes for daring to defy the forces of 'dull competence [sic]' is another delightful feature of the PB claw-sharpening that goes on whenever she says anything.
    Is that really all she did? Was there nothing she could have done to be more prepared, or encourage more support for her goals?

    A PM being ousted so swiftly is utterly unprecented - I don't think she needs to be permanently ostracised, but I do think the rebuttal that she was defeated by the forces of the deep state or establushment or anti growth coalition or whatever it is called to be a bit misplaced, since unless she was a once in a century talent all PMs face challenges, and none of them collapsed instantly in the face of that. At some level that is on her.
    Lord Bath surely?

    At least Truss was able to form a cabinet!
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,869
    Evening all 😀

    Truss and Kwarteng made the classic error of assuming the world stands still and just as no one told Jeremy Corbin it wasn’t 1979 any more, no one told Truss it wasn’t 1986.

    Her message of fundamentalist capitalism played well once but the world has changed and the notion people would happily accept being a little wealthier in order for the very rich to become a lot wealthier just wouldn’t fly in the post-pandemic world where notions of fairness reign supreme.

    The public recoil from the immediate policy announcements told us we were no longer Thatcher’s children and that Thatcherism had gone the way of democratic socialism.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,062
    kle4 said:

    eek said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Optimal scenario for the US system of government:

    1) Trump loses in the primaries to DeSantis;

    2) Butthurt, he alleges vote rigging and runs as an independent;

    3) DeSantis quits as Governor of Florida to focus on being nominee;

    4) Biden selects Whitmer, Ossoff or Buttigieg as his VP;

    5) Biden wins in an absolute landslide, due to the split vote, consigning both Trump and DeSantis to the outer darkness;

    6) Biden then retires for undisclosed health reasons, leaving a capable President in charge;

    7) A sane Republican nominee - Haley, perhaps? - emerges in 2028 and wins easily.

    4 and 6 are not essential, but they would be optimal.

    I think point 4 - maybe not necessarily one of those, but a VP who is sensible, competent and doesn't drive away swing voters - is actually essential. If Biden does that he's going to win by a landslide that even the paranoid would see couldn't be overturned.

    The problem is, the VP role is occupied by someone who doesn't necessarily fulfil any of those three requirements. And who was the last POTUS to jettison their VP before their re-election bid?
    Harris needs to be offloaded elsewhere sooner rather than later. Isn't she a lawyer so the ideal plan would be to send her to the Supreme court (which I'm sure was a rumoured plan).
    The idea of sending a mediocre politician to the Supreme Court for political convenience is disturbing.
    Well, yes, but if her lawyering skills are reasonable then her being a mediocre politician would not make her out of place on the Court.
    I believe she was quite focused on locking up black people. So would probably fit right in with the Justices
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    kle4 said:

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Only when Liz Truss admits her mistakes.
    Yes, the insistence on Liz repenting and dressing herself in sackcloth and ashes for daring to defy the forces of 'dull competence [sic]' is another delightful feature of the PB claw-sharpening that goes on whenever she says anything.
    Is that really all she did? Was there nothing she could have done to be more prepared, or encourage more support for her goals?

    A PM being ousted so swiftly is utterly unprecented - I don't think she needs to be permanently ostracised, but I do think the rebuttal that she was defeated by the forces of the deep state or establushment or anti growth coalition or whatever it is called to be a bit misplaced, since unless she was a once in a century talent all PMs face challenges, and none of them collapsed instantly in the face of that. At some level that is on her.
    Lord Bath surely?

    At least Truss was able to form a cabinet!
    The all knowing powers of wikipedia, Andrew Gimson and Iain Dale don't tend to include Lord Bath as an official PM. But I don't doubt there will be a push to include him and Waldegrave. They failed too hard to even count I guess.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,472
    kle4 said:

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Only when Liz Truss admits her mistakes.
    Yes, the insistence on Liz repenting and dressing herself in sackcloth and ashes for daring to defy the forces of 'dull competence [sic]' is another delightful feature of the PB claw-sharpening that goes on whenever she says anything.
    Is that really all she did? Was there nothing she could have done to be more prepared, or encourage more support for her goals?

    A PM being ousted so swiftly is utterly unprecented - I don't think she needs to be permanently ostracised, but I do think the rebuttal that she was defeated by the forces of the deep state or establushment or anti growth coalition or whatever it is called to be a bit misplaced, since unless she was a once in a century talent all PMs face challenges, and none of them collapsed instantly in the face of that. At some level that is on her.
    That's not all she did, but I think that is what's upset people here the most.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,748
    edited April 2023

    Can someone please pay me £10k to deliver a speech please?

    I could say all sorts of stuff. Nazis. Pineapple. Innuendo. Betting tips.

    I've got it all.

    £10K is Third Division rates for a third rate prime minister. Theresa May remarkably picked up £100K for a speech. Not sure what the organisers expected for that money - unless it was a rerun of May's conference speech where she lost her voice and the set collapsed around her - which was hilarious if excruciating.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,854

    ohnotnow said:

    FPT:

    viewcode said:

    I appreciate that you all seem to be invested around Succession, but I need to point out that we are close to Star Trek Picard series 3 episode 9 of 10. Leaked screenshots of the last episodes are available online and they give away crucial plot points including who the main villain is. If you want links to same please let me know.

    [evil grin]

    Please tell me it's the Tribbles.
    No Picard spoilers.

    Anyone spoiling Picard for me will see me a deliver a righteous anger that you would mistake me for Jules Winnfield.
    [mimes zipping up lips and throwing away the key]
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,556
    edited April 2023
    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    No other body than government can have the civil service assist in preparing for governing eventualities. Cameron was at fault.

    Nope

    Until the vote it wasn't an eventuality, and after the vote Cameron wasn't PM
    A lovely piece of special pleading. I love the idea that the job of government and civil service is to have plans only for one future contingent at a time. Call it 'Truss level planning'.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,501
    edited April 2023
    Joe Biden has just sewn up 100% of the Irish American vote in 2024.

    🚨Joe Biden gaffe alert: @POTUS just said his rugby player cousin @KearneyRob “beat the hell out of the Black and Tans”….instead of the @AllBlacks

    https://twitter.com/SMurphyTV/status/1646234858187010048
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,598
    ohnotnow said:

    Again FPT (sorry):

    This is Javier Milei, Argentine right wing presidential candidate

    Fabricant should get some tips


    On first glance I thought that was Bob Mortimer doing a character.
    Evening all.

    That's the first horsehair wig I've seen.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,472
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Tedious it may be. But is it unfairly tedious? I think a lot of people are clear they would like an alternative to how things are currently managed. It's one reason a lot of people were so enthusiastic about Corbyn, albeit a very different kind of project.

    Political leaders have to expect opposition to their ideas, and overcome them if they believe it to be a good idea. Some good ideas will fail when they don't manage it. Many bad ideas will also fail when they don't manage it, and occasionally we get lucky and they do manage to get a good idea through.

    Truss didn't manage it. Things are crappy enough she could improve her reputation by saying she wanted to do things differently (even as she presented as the continuity candidate in the leadership contest in every other way). But if she seems like she is complaining about the fact people opposed her plans she will find that hard.
    But why does this need to be re-hashed? Of course Liz Truss didn't succeed as PM - if she'd succeeded, she would still be PM, regardless of the very real circumstantial and political obstacles that stood in her way, which Sunak has neatly dodged with his supine acquiescence in being completely shit.

    The people who think this political failure requires her to maintain a trappist silence forever (who also happen to be people who were vigorously opposed to her agenda) have said their bit - I'm not sure what new they think they're bringing to the conversation.
    It might need to be rehashed because she is commenting about it, and naturally is presenting the best possible explanation for what happened, which invites responses. What new is she bringing after all? But as you say she shouldn't have to be silent. Therefore when she justifies herself she will face rebuttal, and probably always will. That's consequence.
    There is nothing in the videoclip above that references her time in office at all. She's not even addressing UK policy directly, but US policy.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,987
    Driver said:

    dixiedean said:

    "Generate money for their employees?"
    Unless they are a profit sharing co-operative they don't do that anyway do they?
    Or is payment of a wage for a task done an act of kindly altruism?
    Or can the Heritage Foundation simply not express itself in plain English?

    How do they pay salaries if not by generating money?
    Of course.
    But if they generate more money, does that go to the employee?
    Certainly not automatically. And quite usually not at all.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,408

    Joe Biden has just sewn up 100% of the Irish American vote in 2024.

    🚨Joe Biden gaffe alert: @POTUS just said his rugby player cousin @KearneyRob“beat the hell out of the Black and Tans”….instead of the @AllBlacks

    https://twitter.com/SMurphyTV/status/1646234858187010048

    He's such a dipstick.

    I can't think of any American worse suited to appeal to the Unionists.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,612

    Joe Biden has just sewn up 100% of the Irish American vote in 2024.

    🚨Joe Biden gaffe alert: @POTUS just said his rugby player cousin @KearneyRob“beat the hell out of the Black and Tans”….instead of the @AllBlacks

    https://twitter.com/SMurphyTV/status/1646234858187010048

    Even Kevin McCarthy?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820
    edited April 2023

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Can we just take everyone's tedious sarcasm in response to this snippet as read?

    Tedious it may be. But is it unfairly tedious? I think a lot of people are clear they would like an alternative to how things are currently managed. It's one reason a lot of people were so enthusiastic about Corbyn, albeit a very different kind of project.

    Political leaders have to expect opposition to their ideas, and overcome them if they believe it to be a good idea. Some good ideas will fail when they don't manage it. Many bad ideas will also fail when they don't manage it, and occasionally we get lucky and they do manage to get a good idea through.

    Truss didn't manage it. Things are crappy enough she could improve her reputation by saying she wanted to do things differently (even as she presented as the continuity candidate in the leadership contest in every other way). But if she seems like she is complaining about the fact people opposed her plans she will find that hard.
    But why does this need to be re-hashed? Of course Liz Truss didn't succeed as PM - if she'd succeeded, she would still be PM, regardless of the very real circumstantial and political obstacles that stood in her way, which Sunak has neatly dodged with his supine acquiescence in being completely shit.

    The people who think this political failure requires her to maintain a trappist silence forever (who also happen to be people who were vigorously opposed to her agenda) have said their bit - I'm not sure what new they think they're bringing to the conversation.
    It might need to be rehashed because she is commenting about it, and naturally is presenting the best possible explanation for what happened, which invites responses. What new is she bringing after all? But as you say she shouldn't have to be silent. Therefore when she justifies herself she will face rebuttal, and probably always will. That's consequence.
    There is nothing in the videoclip above that references her time in office at all. She's not even addressing UK policy directly, but US policy.
    I was referring generically to her defences. Guido for instance quotes her talking about her time in office directly, and referring to her UK policy (in an effort to encourage US policy)

    My tax cuts… faced coordinated resistance. And we didn’t just face coordinated resistance from within the Conservative Party, or even inside the British corporate establishment. We faced it from the IMF, and even President Biden. So, my warning to you here today is it’s not enough just to have the right ideas. It’s not enough even to have broad support for those ideas. We need to be able to take on those who resist change, and who don’t want change. And we need to be able to ensure that we’re winning the argument enough to do that…”
    https://order-order.com/2023/04/12/truss-rips-corporate-establishment-for-downfall/

    Pretty clear she is referencing her time in office. She is not philosophising in a vaccum.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,408

    Joe Biden has just sewn up 100% of the Irish American vote in 2024.

    🚨Joe Biden gaffe alert: @POTUS just said his rugby player cousin @KearneyRob“beat the hell out of the Black and Tans”….instead of the @AllBlacks

    https://twitter.com/SMurphyTV/status/1646234858187010048

    Here's a picture of them performing the haka.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    Joe Biden has just sewn up 100% of the Irish American vote in 2024.

    🚨Joe Biden gaffe alert: @POTUS just said his rugby player cousin @KearneyRob“beat the hell out of the Black and Tans”….instead of the @AllBlacks

    https://twitter.com/SMurphyTV/status/1646234858187010048

    He's such a dipstick.

    I can't think of any American worse suited to appeal to the Unionists.
    I did like a headline yesterday about whether he could put pressure on the DUP - didn't seem like he would be the ideal person to do that.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,205
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    She annoys me more than pineapple on pizza.

    The biggest arse ache at work when it comes to not achieving growth is the absolute turd that is the current Brexit deal, then a government that tried to ignore the markets.

    And then she starts going on about woke too.

    Her biggest opponents were the money markets. Hardly a bastion of wokeness. She’s deluded as to why she failed.
    Just rhetoric tailored to the audience.
    But it’s not just that audience, it’s the wider audience she’s speaking to as the speech has been widely publicised prior to it being made, especially if she is trying to launch some sort of comeback.

    Such nonsense just comes over as deluded.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,987
    TOPPING said:

    I think Liz was brave in the best sense of the word and was attempting to do something genuinely innovative.

    Where she showed herself manifestly unsuited to the job, however, was in not understanding, via incompetence or hubris, that the markets wouldn't give her a free pass just because she had a new plan.

    Anyone can be genuinely innovative if they ignore the consequences of their actions and don't plan to address any likely criticism in advance and this is where she failed and failed badly.

    All the markets needed, all we needed was a "costed" plan which explained where the money would come from. It might have strained credibility but at least we would have seen her workings. And, given the subject of his PhD I cannot believe that Kwasi didn't have some workings somewhere.

    I don't think it was an expected free pass because it was a "new plan".
    It was because it fitted in with their own ideology. Which they believed the markets shared. So would bend the facts to their views.
    But they don't have an ideology. Very few outside active politics do.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,205

    Joe Biden has just sewn up 100% of the Irish American vote in 2024.

    🚨Joe Biden gaffe alert: @POTUS just said his rugby player cousin @KearneyRob “beat the hell out of the Black and Tans”….instead of the @AllBlacks

    https://twitter.com/SMurphyTV/status/1646234858187010048

    Come out ye Black and Tans !!
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013

    Joe Biden has just sewn up 100% of the Irish American vote in 2024.

    🚨Joe Biden gaffe alert: @POTUS just said his rugby player cousin @KearneyRob“beat the hell out of the Black and Tans”….instead of the @AllBlacks

    https://twitter.com/SMurphyTV/status/1646234858187010048

    He's such a dipstick.

    I can't think of any American worse suited to appeal to the Unionists.
    To be fair, the Unionists don't identify with the Black and Tans. Nor would any sane person, for that matter.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820
    FF43 said:

    Can someone please pay me £10k to deliver a speech please?

    I could say all sorts of stuff. Nazis. Pineapple. Innuendo. Betting tips.

    I've got it all.

    £10K is Third Division rates for a third rate prime minister. Theresa May remarkably picked up £100K for a speech. Not sure what the organisers expected for that money - unless it was a rerun of May's conference speech where she lost her voice and the set collapsed around her - which was hilarious if excruciating.
    She doesn't seem to be running out of people wanting to hire her even though it has been some years since she was in office - she must be doing something right, as far as they are concerned.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    eek said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Optimal scenario for the US system of government:

    1) Trump loses in the primaries to DeSantis;

    2) Butthurt, he alleges vote rigging and runs as an independent;

    3) DeSantis quits as Governor of Florida to focus on being nominee;

    4) Biden selects Whitmer, Ossoff or Buttigieg as his VP;

    5) Biden wins in an absolute landslide, due to the split vote, consigning both Trump and DeSantis to the outer darkness;

    6) Biden then retires for undisclosed health reasons, leaving a capable President in charge;

    7) A sane Republican nominee - Haley, perhaps? - emerges in 2028 and wins easily.

    4 and 6 are not essential, but they would be optimal.

    I think point 4 - maybe not necessarily one of those, but a VP who is sensible, competent and doesn't drive away swing voters - is actually essential. If Biden does that he's going to win by a landslide that even the paranoid would see couldn't be overturned.

    The problem is, the VP role is occupied by someone who doesn't necessarily fulfil any of those three requirements. And who was the last POTUS to jettison their VP before their re-election bid?
    Harris needs to be offloaded elsewhere sooner rather than later. Isn't she a lawyer so the ideal plan would be to send her to the Supreme court (which I'm sure was a rumoured plan).
    The idea of sending a mediocre politician to the Supreme Court for political convenience is disturbing.
    Well, yes, but if her lawyering skills are reasonable then her being a mediocre politician would not make her out of place on the Court.
    I don't think anyone has claimed Harris is an intellectual legal giant...
    She shouldn't be out of place then with the other numpties.
    She’s a perfectly competent lawyer.
    But neither a legal academic, nor a judge, which is the norm.

    There’s actually a reasonable argument for having someone less specialised in constitutional law on the court, but I doubt it would get much traction.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,654
    She (or rather her henchman) announced historically huge tax cuts that were not only unfunded, but came about a week after promising to underwrite everyone's energy bills for 2 years. She literally wrote cheques she couldn't cash. If there had been a David Laws coming into the treasury after Kwarteng's departure he might have noticed and leaked a little note saying "there is no money left" (which Greg Hands would then tweet on a daily basis until 2035).

    I see this story and I think "bless". I kind of wish she'd stuck around for longer because it seems unfair Sunak's Tories aren't suffering more in the polls for the sheer stupidity of that short period of government., coming as it did after 2 years of Britain Trump.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803
    Taz said:

    She annoys me more than pineapple on pizza.

    The biggest arse ache at work when it comes to not achieving growth is the absolute turd that is the current Brexit deal, then a government that tried to ignore the markets.

    And then she starts going on about woke too.

    Her biggest opponents were the money markets. Hardly a bastion of wokeness. She’s deluded as to why she failed.
    Maybe they hunt a lot and eat lots of venison at Rules?
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,310
    It's all just part of her coping mechanism I suppose. But the picture she paints of British business is surely a grotesque caricature. I've worked in the private sector for twenty-five years and have never encountered anything like the wacky woke practices she claims are now the norm. That sort of irresponsible rhetoric might actually deter investment if anyone is silly enough to give it credence. And that, along with Brexit, is the last thing we need. Reckless, unpatriotic, damaging and facile is my take.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,303
    Taz said:

    Joe Biden has just sewn up 100% of the Irish American vote in 2024.

    🚨Joe Biden gaffe alert: @POTUS just said his rugby player cousin @KearneyRob “beat the hell out of the Black and Tans”….instead of the @AllBlacks

    https://twitter.com/SMurphyTV/status/1646234858187010048

    Come out ye Black and Tans !!
    Very Auxieward.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,330
    Man. My family makes the family in Succession look sane and normal
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803

    Joe Biden has just sewn up 100% of the Irish American vote in 2024.

    🚨Joe Biden gaffe alert: @POTUS just said his rugby player cousin @KearneyRob“beat the hell out of the Black and Tans”….instead of the @AllBlacks

    https://twitter.com/SMurphyTV/status/1646234858187010048

    He's such a dipstick.

    I can't think of any American worse suited to appeal to the Unionists.
    Slight problem there. The Unionists don't appeal to anyone at all in GB. Apart from a few Tories. And not many of them either, vide that poll posted in the last thread. Well worth a look if you missed it - it was quite a surprise.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820
    TimS said:

    She (or rather her henchman) announced historically huge tax cuts that were not only unfunded, but came about a week after promising to underwrite everyone's energy bills for 2 years. She literally wrote cheques she couldn't cash. If there had been a David Laws coming into the treasury after Kwarteng's departure he might have noticed and leaked a little note saying "there is no money left" (which Greg Hands would then tweet on a daily basis until 2035).

    I see this story and I think "bless". I kind of wish she'd stuck around for longer because it seems unfair Sunak's Tories aren't suffering more in the polls for the sheer stupidity of that short period of government., coming as it did after 2 years of Britain Trump.

    I thought Truss had done enough to survive into the new year at least, and it would have been interesting to see what might have happened if she could have weathered just a couple more months.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,501
    edited April 2023
    Carnyx said:

    Joe Biden has just sewn up 100% of the Irish American vote in 2024.

    🚨Joe Biden gaffe alert: @POTUS just said his rugby player cousin @KearneyRob“beat the hell out of the Black and Tans”….instead of the @AllBlacks

    https://twitter.com/SMurphyTV/status/1646234858187010048

    He's such a dipstick.

    I can't think of any American worse suited to appeal to the Unionists.
    Slight problem there. The Unionists don't appeal to anyone at all in GB. Apart from a few Tories. And not many of them either, vide that poll posted in the last thread. Well worth a look if you missed it - it was quite a surprise.
    It wasn't a surprise.

    Back in 2019 there was a poll of Tory members which showed a majority were prepared to see Northern Ireland leave the UK if they could get their Brexit.




    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/18/most-conservative-members-would-see-party-destroye
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803

    Carnyx said:

    Joe Biden has just sewn up 100% of the Irish American vote in 2024.

    🚨Joe Biden gaffe alert: @POTUS just said his rugby player cousin @KearneyRob“beat the hell out of the Black and Tans”….instead of the @AllBlacks

    https://twitter.com/SMurphyTV/status/1646234858187010048

    He's such a dipstick.

    I can't think of any American worse suited to appeal to the Unionists.
    Slight problem there. The Unionists don't appeal to anyone at all in GB. Apart from a few Tories. And not many of them either, vide that poll posted in the last thread. Well worth a look if you missed it - it was quite a surprise.
    It wasn't a surprise.

    Back in 2019 there was a poll of Tories/Brexiteers/Tory members which showed a majority were prepared to see Northern Ireland leave the UK if they could get their Brexit.
    The one Wings over Scotland commissioned? He certainly commissioned a very similar poll as I recall.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,654

    It's all just part of her coping mechanism I suppose. But the picture she paints of British business is surely a grotesque caricature. I've worked in the private sector for twenty-five years and have never encountered anything like the wacky woke practices she claims are now the norm. That sort of irresponsible rhetoric might actually deter investment if anyone is silly enough to give it credence. And that, along with Brexit, is the last thing we need. Reckless, unpatriotic, damaging and facile is my take.

    They need to decide whether it's reality 1 or 2.

    Reality 1: business is hopelessly woke and part of the new elite (TM Matt Goodwin) holding back Britain. Or

    Reality 2: the private sector is always right, unlike those woke lazy public sector layabouts who are holding back Britain.

    or actually they don't, because they're very comfortable with doublethink when it suits them.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,654
    Carnyx said:

    Joe Biden has just sewn up 100% of the Irish American vote in 2024.

    🚨Joe Biden gaffe alert: @POTUS just said his rugby player cousin @KearneyRob“beat the hell out of the Black and Tans”….instead of the @AllBlacks

    https://twitter.com/SMurphyTV/status/1646234858187010048

    He's such a dipstick.

    I can't think of any American worse suited to appeal to the Unionists.
    Slight problem there. The Unionists don't appeal to anyone at all in GB. Apart from a few Tories. And not many of them either, vide that poll posted in the last thread. Well worth a look if you missed it - it was quite a surprise.
    That poll was hilarious, and (one would like to think) a wake up call for some of the posturing politicians in NI. Because I expect a similar poll taken in the Republic would come up with something similar.
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    Smart51Smart51 Posts: 52
    Truss states "You can't expect economic growth and prosperity when companies are more focused on meeting meaningless diversity quotas and complying with radical climate change standards, rather than engaging in competition and generating money for their employees and the country." It is clearly nonsense. Companies do no such thing. Which is more likely, she doesn't know how business works, or she is trying to fool people?
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    pm215pm215 Posts: 936
    kle4 said:


    A PM being ousted so swiftly is utterly unprecented - I don't think she needs to be permanently ostracised, but I do think the rebuttal that she was defeated by the forces of the deep state or establushment or anti growth coalition or whatever it is called to be a bit misplaced, since unless she was a once in a century talent all PMs face challenges, and none of them collapsed instantly in the face of that. At some level that is on her.

    Yes; to be out of office that fast you need to make multiple mistakes simultaneously, and I think Truss did indeed make multiple errors on various levels. The 'establishment/deep state' theory oversimplifies by implying that it was only the proposed policy direction that led to her downfall.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667
    edited April 2023
    Smart51 said:

    Truss states "You can't expect economic growth and prosperity when companies are more focused on meeting meaningless diversity quotas and complying with radical climate change standards, rather than engaging in competition and generating money for their employees and the country." It is clearly nonsense. Companies do no such thing. Which is more likely, she doesn't know how business works, or she is trying to fool people?

    She’s telling her paying hosts what they want to hear.
    Supply and demand - all capitalists understand how that works.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820
    TimS said:

    It's all just part of her coping mechanism I suppose. But the picture she paints of British business is surely a grotesque caricature. I've worked in the private sector for twenty-five years and have never encountered anything like the wacky woke practices she claims are now the norm. That sort of irresponsible rhetoric might actually deter investment if anyone is silly enough to give it credence. And that, along with Brexit, is the last thing we need. Reckless, unpatriotic, damaging and facile is my take.

    They need to decide whether it's reality 1 or 2.

    Reality 1: business is hopelessly woke and part of the new elite (TM Matt Goodwin) holding back Britain. Or

    Reality 2: the private sector is always right, unlike those woke lazy public sector layabouts who are holding back Britain.

    or actually they don't, because they're very comfortable with doublethink when it suits them.
    I think you've just accurately summarised the human condition.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,714
    edited April 2023
    Prediction: referendum on proportional representation for Westminster on Thursday 1st May 2025.

    Anyone think it's likely?
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