Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Brexiteers should expect a lot more polling like this – politicalbetting.com

1235»

Comments

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,465
    This somewhat soporific game has livened up a bit.
  • pillsburypillsbury Posts: 373
    edited November 24

    MattW said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    The Tories have made a mistake thinking the milk and egg crisis is short term - it’s not bird flu, it’s price rises in industry the supermarkets refuse to take on and pass on. It’s absolutely the perfect situation for the government to intervene in this industry now to avoid greater crisis in the future, but this government not good enough to recognise this.

    What would a Labour government do and how would it pay for it?
    Ha! You mea what would any decent government be doing right now! Thatcher and Hestletine would have intervened already!

    You have the egg business unable to exist for long with the current costs, so not only the existential threat to an industry from delaying inevitable intervention too late, but at same time the very poorest in our society the government pay lip service to protecting in this crisis going without staples like milk and eggs.

    Why are you even arguing. It’s a no brainier.
    Should government fix retail prices in general?
    What do you think they are already doing spending £XXXbn helping business in this crisis? but too slow to intervene in egg industry. What I am trying to point out to you is it’s exactly the same thing as household and business energy bail out. What do you think the chickens eat, so why isn’t the war escalating the price of that, etc. it’s about a government recognising it’s not a short term issue when the industry shrinks and number of laying birds decreases, we suck in eggs from places like Italy, we don’t have our own egg security anymore. As well as backing up lip service of helping the poorest within our country, they hear you saying that, but can’t have eggs or milk. Foodbanks can’t get them.

    Why are you are the side of crap government, not good government? The governmental is subsiding the cost of heating private pools same time mothers watering down milk for their babies. That’s you applauding that. It’s not about party politics, just fundamentals. You can’t get more fundamental than milk and eggs, civilised society is based on access to these.
    Why are eggs such a big deal?
    They are nature's perfect food. We should all eat as many as we can get our mits on.
    But our country is currently suffering Apartheid of the Egg. milk and eggs.

    Shameful for any government to preside over.
    Are we, though?

    How many PBers have been refused their heggs and milk?

    I bought two dozen a couple of days ago with no problem, but perhaps that's just Notts.

    Clearly the costs will be passed on, or hegg farmers will turn to other retail channels.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11434151/Experts-warn-shopping-staples-feels-like-buying-gold-bullion-inflation.html

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-63743217
    Mail: Chancellor says inflation is an 'insidious tax is eating into pay cheques, household budgets and savings'

    No, Jezza, fiscal drag is the insidious tax
  • ChrisChris Posts: 8,890
    pillsbury said:

    MattW said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    The Tories have made a mistake thinking the milk and egg crisis is short term - it’s not bird flu, it’s price rises in industry the supermarkets refuse to take on and pass on. It’s absolutely the perfect situation for the government to intervene in this industry now to avoid greater crisis in the future, but this government not good enough to recognise this.

    What would a Labour government do and how would it pay for it?
    Ha! You mea what would any decent government be doing right now! Thatcher and Hestletine would have intervened already!

    You have the egg business unable to exist for long with the current costs, so not only the existential threat to an industry from delaying inevitable intervention too late, but at same time the very poorest in our society the government pay lip service to protecting in this crisis going without staples like milk and eggs.

    Why are you even arguing. It’s a no brainier.
    Should government fix retail prices in general?
    What do you think they are already doing spending £XXXbn helping business in this crisis? but too slow to intervene in egg industry. What I am trying to point out to you is it’s exactly the same thing as household and business energy bail out. What do you think the chickens eat, so why isn’t the war escalating the price of that, etc. it’s about a government recognising it’s not a short term issue when the industry shrinks and number of laying birds decreases, we suck in eggs from places like Italy, we don’t have our own egg security anymore. As well as backing up lip service of helping the poorest within our country, they hear you saying that, but can’t have eggs or milk. Foodbanks can’t get them.

    Why are you are the side of crap government, not good government? The governmental is subsiding the cost of heating private pools same time mothers watering down milk for their babies. That’s you applauding that. It’s not about party politics, just fundamentals. You can’t get more fundamental than milk and eggs, civilised society is based on access to these.
    Why are eggs such a big deal?
    They are nature's perfect food. We should all eat as many as we can get our mits on.
    But our country is currently suffering Apartheid of the Egg. milk and eggs.

    Shameful for any government to preside over.
    Are we, though?

    How many PBers have been refused their heggs and milk?

    I bought two dozen a couple of days ago with no problem, but perhaps that's just Notts.

    Clearly the costs will be passed on, or hegg farmers will turn to other retail channels.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11434151/Experts-warn-shopping-staples-feels-like-buying-gold-bullion-inflation.html

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-63743217
    Mail: Chancellor says inflation is an 'insidious tax is eating into pay cheques, household budgets and savings'

    No, Jezza, fiscal drag is the insidious tax
    It does seem like terminological inexactitude to describe inflation as a "tax", considering that the proceeds of inflation by no means go to the government. But in Hunt's case maybe just the result of sloppy thinking?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 8,890

    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigel Farage confirms Reform will stand a full slate of candidates at the next election & not make any deals with Conservative MPs. About 13-15% of 2019 Conservatives are already planning to vote Reform so this is another big problem in a long list of problems for Rishi Sunak.
    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1595781501953929216

    Yes, problem there for Sunak. He can only secure those votes by abandoning the soggy middle to Starmer.
    Except that UKIP/Reform/Farage is RUBBISH when it comes to FPTP elections.
    That's true, but isn't the problem for Mr Sunak the votes which Mr Farage and his party's candidates draw off the Conservative candidates?

    Though Labour also, to be fair. Which is now a Brexiter party.
    There are no Brexiter parties because Brexit is in the past. There are only Rejoiners and Stay Outers...

    Edit: I suppose there are also people who understand that Brexit is in the past, and those who still havent gotten over it.
    If you are American bugger off, none of your business. If not, write "got."
    The distinction is obviously something that you have forgot.
    Howls of risive laughter.
    I;m currently reading The Countess of Pembroke's Arcadia, written in the 1580s/90s by Sir Philip Sidney. He uses 'gotten'. A lot.
    I'm sure American English accidentally preserves a lot of archaic "English English" usage, "gotten" being a fairly well known example.

    But no longer much help in determining from usage who is an American - for those to whom such a distinction is important.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 2,286
    pillsbury said:

    MattW said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    The Tories have made a mistake thinking the milk and egg crisis is short term - it’s not bird flu, it’s price rises in industry the supermarkets refuse to take on and pass on. It’s absolutely the perfect situation for the government to intervene in this industry now to avoid greater crisis in the future, but this government not good enough to recognise this.

    What would a Labour government do and how would it pay for it?
    Ha! You mea what would any decent government be doing right now! Thatcher and Hestletine would have intervened already!

    You have the egg business unable to exist for long with the current costs, so not only the existential threat to an industry from delaying inevitable intervention too late, but at same time the very poorest in our society the government pay lip service to protecting in this crisis going without staples like milk and eggs.

    Why are you even arguing. It’s a no brainier.
    Should government fix retail prices in general?
    What do you think they are already doing spending £XXXbn helping business in this crisis? but too slow to intervene in egg industry. What I am trying to point out to you is it’s exactly the same thing as household and business energy bail out. What do you think the chickens eat, so why isn’t the war escalating the price of that, etc. it’s about a government recognising it’s not a short term issue when the industry shrinks and number of laying birds decreases, we suck in eggs from places like Italy, we don’t have our own egg security anymore. As well as backing up lip service of helping the poorest within our country, they hear you saying that, but can’t have eggs or milk. Foodbanks can’t get them.

    Why are you are the side of crap government, not good government? The governmental is subsiding the cost of heating private pools same time mothers watering down milk for their babies. That’s you applauding that. It’s not about party politics, just fundamentals. You can’t get more fundamental than milk and eggs, civilised society is based on access to these.
    Why are eggs such a big deal?
    They are nature's perfect food. We should all eat as many as we can get our mits on.
    But our country is currently suffering Apartheid of the Egg. milk and eggs.

    Shameful for any government to preside over.
    Are we, though?

    How many PBers have been refused their heggs and milk?

    I bought two dozen a couple of days ago with no problem, but perhaps that's just Notts.

    Clearly the costs will be passed on, or hegg farmers will turn to other retail channels.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11434151/Experts-warn-shopping-staples-feels-like-buying-gold-bullion-inflation.html

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-63743217
    Mail: Chancellor says inflation is an 'insidious tax is eating into pay cheques, household budgets and savings'

    No, Jezza, fiscal drag is the insidious tax
    "fiscal drag": a term for when people who get a pay rise have to pay more tax.
  • Happy Thanksgiving! Gobble!! Gobble!!!
  • pillsburypillsbury Posts: 373
    Driver said:

    pillsbury said:

    MattW said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    The Tories have made a mistake thinking the milk and egg crisis is short term - it’s not bird flu, it’s price rises in industry the supermarkets refuse to take on and pass on. It’s absolutely the perfect situation for the government to intervene in this industry now to avoid greater crisis in the future, but this government not good enough to recognise this.

    What would a Labour government do and how would it pay for it?
    Ha! You mea what would any decent government be doing right now! Thatcher and Hestletine would have intervened already!

    You have the egg business unable to exist for long with the current costs, so not only the existential threat to an industry from delaying inevitable intervention too late, but at same time the very poorest in our society the government pay lip service to protecting in this crisis going without staples like milk and eggs.

    Why are you even arguing. It’s a no brainier.
    Should government fix retail prices in general?
    What do you think they are already doing spending £XXXbn helping business in this crisis? but too slow to intervene in egg industry. What I am trying to point out to you is it’s exactly the same thing as household and business energy bail out. What do you think the chickens eat, so why isn’t the war escalating the price of that, etc. it’s about a government recognising it’s not a short term issue when the industry shrinks and number of laying birds decreases, we suck in eggs from places like Italy, we don’t have our own egg security anymore. As well as backing up lip service of helping the poorest within our country, they hear you saying that, but can’t have eggs or milk. Foodbanks can’t get them.

    Why are you are the side of crap government, not good government? The governmental is subsiding the cost of heating private pools same time mothers watering down milk for their babies. That’s you applauding that. It’s not about party politics, just fundamentals. You can’t get more fundamental than milk and eggs, civilised society is based on access to these.
    Why are eggs such a big deal?
    They are nature's perfect food. We should all eat as many as we can get our mits on.
    But our country is currently suffering Apartheid of the Egg. milk and eggs.

    Shameful for any government to preside over.
    Are we, though?

    How many PBers have been refused their heggs and milk?

    I bought two dozen a couple of days ago with no problem, but perhaps that's just Notts.

    Clearly the costs will be passed on, or hegg farmers will turn to other retail channels.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11434151/Experts-warn-shopping-staples-feels-like-buying-gold-bullion-inflation.html

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-63743217
    Mail: Chancellor says inflation is an 'insidious tax is eating into pay cheques, household budgets and savings'

    No, Jezza, fiscal drag is the insidious tax
    "fiscal drag": a term for when people who get a pay rise have to pay more tax.
    And people who get a real terms pay standstill or cut, have to pay more tax.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,991
    edited November 24
    Has Biden pardoned the turkey yet?

    Edit: apparently he did it a few days ago:

    https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1594741212619149314
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,486
    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigel Farage confirms Reform will stand a full slate of candidates at the next election & not make any deals with Conservative MPs. About 13-15% of 2019 Conservatives are already planning to vote Reform so this is another big problem in a long list of problems for Rishi Sunak.
    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1595781501953929216

    Yes, problem there for Sunak. He can only secure those votes by abandoning the soggy middle to Starmer.
    Except that UKIP/Reform/Farage is RUBBISH when it comes to FPTP elections.
    That's true, but isn't the problem for Mr Sunak the votes which Mr Farage and his party's candidates draw off the Conservative candidates?

    Though Labour also, to be fair. Which is now a Brexiter party.
    There are no Brexiter parties because Brexit is in the past. There are only Rejoiners and Stay Outers...

    Edit: I suppose there are also people who understand that Brexit is in the past, and those who still havent gotten over it.
    If you are American bugger off, none of your business. If not, write "got." Either way you sound as intelligent as a Frenchman in 1936 dismissing any talk of a German threat as "not having come to terms with the Treaty of Versailles."
    Someone has gotten all worked up
  • Has Biden pardoned the turkey yet?

    IF you mean his predecessor as POTUS, hell no.

    On the other hand, IF you are REALLY talkin' turkey:

    Biden pardons Thanksgiving turkeys: ‘No ballot stuffing, no fowl play’
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/21/politics/biden-thanksgiving-turkey-pardon/index.html
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,365

    Has Biden pardoned the turkey yet?

    Edit: apparently he did it a few days ago:

    https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1594741212619149314

    The Big T will have to be convicted first.
  • pillsburypillsbury Posts: 373
    rcs1000 said:

    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigel Farage confirms Reform will stand a full slate of candidates at the next election & not make any deals with Conservative MPs. About 13-15% of 2019 Conservatives are already planning to vote Reform so this is another big problem in a long list of problems for Rishi Sunak.
    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1595781501953929216

    Yes, problem there for Sunak. He can only secure those votes by abandoning the soggy middle to Starmer.
    Except that UKIP/Reform/Farage is RUBBISH when it comes to FPTP elections.
    That's true, but isn't the problem for Mr Sunak the votes which Mr Farage and his party's candidates draw off the Conservative candidates?

    Though Labour also, to be fair. Which is now a Brexiter party.
    There are no Brexiter parties because Brexit is in the past. There are only Rejoiners and Stay Outers...

    Edit: I suppose there are also people who understand that Brexit is in the past, and those who still havent gotten over it.
    If you are American bugger off, none of your business. If not, write "got." Either way you sound as intelligent as a Frenchman in 1936 dismissing any talk of a German threat as "not having come to terms with the Treaty of Versailles."
    Someone has gotten all worked up
    Gotten mad, even.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,421
    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,046
    Interesting poll in the header. Not surprisingly, most people tell pollsters they want something better than things that actually exist. Just like any other political poll.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,712
    EPG said:

    Interesting poll in the header. Not surprisingly, most people tell pollsters they want something better than things that actually exist. Just like any other political poll.

    People want a Labour Brexit.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,586
    pillsbury said:

    rcs1000 said:

    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigel Farage confirms Reform will stand a full slate of candidates at the next election & not make any deals with Conservative MPs. About 13-15% of 2019 Conservatives are already planning to vote Reform so this is another big problem in a long list of problems for Rishi Sunak.
    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1595781501953929216

    Yes, problem there for Sunak. He can only secure those votes by abandoning the soggy middle to Starmer.
    Except that UKIP/Reform/Farage is RUBBISH when it comes to FPTP elections.
    That's true, but isn't the problem for Mr Sunak the votes which Mr Farage and his party's candidates draw off the Conservative candidates?

    Though Labour also, to be fair. Which is now a Brexiter party.
    There are no Brexiter parties because Brexit is in the past. There are only Rejoiners and Stay Outers...

    Edit: I suppose there are also people who understand that Brexit is in the past, and those who still havent gotten over it.
    If you are American bugger off, none of your business. If not, write "got." Either way you sound as intelligent as a Frenchman in 1936 dismissing any talk of a German threat as "not having come to terms with the Treaty of Versailles."
    Someone has gotten all worked up
    Gotten mad, even.
    He's gotten 'gotten' where of course in RP he should have gotten 'got'.
    Daft gadgie.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,991
    @AFP
    #BREAKING Hungary postpones approving Finland and Sweden NATO accession to next year: PM


    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1595809808170749952
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903

    Has Biden pardoned the turkey yet?

    Edit: apparently he did it a few days ago:

    https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1594741212619149314

    The Big T will have to be convicted first.
    Outrageous remark. Turkeys are nothing like Donald Trump.

    One is a stupid looking animal that people like for no discernible reason despite its weird mottled top, incredibly small brain, massive body weight and tendency to shit everywhere.

    The other is delicious with bread sauce.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,712

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,421
    edited November 24

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    I never worked longer than 32 hours straight.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,771

    EPG said:

    Interesting poll in the header. Not surprisingly, most people tell pollsters they want something better than things that actually exist. Just like any other political poll.

    People want a Labour Brexit.
    Leon did compare Brexit to having a baby.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,712
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    I'd get sacked anyway for telling the kids to f-off.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 1,846
    Chris said:

    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigel Farage confirms Reform will stand a full slate of candidates at the next election & not make any deals with Conservative MPs. About 13-15% of 2019 Conservatives are already planning to vote Reform so this is another big problem in a long list of problems for Rishi Sunak.
    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1595781501953929216

    Yes, problem there for Sunak. He can only secure those votes by abandoning the soggy middle to Starmer.
    Except that UKIP/Reform/Farage is RUBBISH when it comes to FPTP elections.
    That's true, but isn't the problem for Mr Sunak the votes which Mr Farage and his party's candidates draw off the Conservative candidates?

    Though Labour also, to be fair. Which is now a Brexiter party.
    There are no Brexiter parties because Brexit is in the past. There are only Rejoiners and Stay Outers...

    Edit: I suppose there are also people who understand that Brexit is in the past, and those who still havent gotten over it.
    If you are American bugger off, none of your business. If not, write "got."
    The distinction is obviously something that you have forgot.
    Howls of risive laughter.
    I;m currently reading The Countess of Pembroke's Arcadia, written in the 1580s/90s by Sir Philip Sidney. He uses 'gotten'. A lot.
    I'm sure American English accidentally preserves a lot of archaic "English English" usage, "gotten" being a fairly well known example.

    But no longer much help in determining from usage who is an American - for those to whom such a distinction is important.
    Some Americanisms are extremely useful. For example,

    Footpath: dotted line on a map that allows a pedestrian to walk across a field.

    Sidewalk: raised margin along a road that allows a pedestrian to stay alive.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    I'd get sacked anyway for telling the kids to f-off.
    Why bother telling the kids to F off? Much more satisfying and useful to save it for the DfE and OFSTED.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,712

    Chris said:

    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigel Farage confirms Reform will stand a full slate of candidates at the next election & not make any deals with Conservative MPs. About 13-15% of 2019 Conservatives are already planning to vote Reform so this is another big problem in a long list of problems for Rishi Sunak.
    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1595781501953929216

    Yes, problem there for Sunak. He can only secure those votes by abandoning the soggy middle to Starmer.
    Except that UKIP/Reform/Farage is RUBBISH when it comes to FPTP elections.
    That's true, but isn't the problem for Mr Sunak the votes which Mr Farage and his party's candidates draw off the Conservative candidates?

    Though Labour also, to be fair. Which is now a Brexiter party.
    There are no Brexiter parties because Brexit is in the past. There are only Rejoiners and Stay Outers...

    Edit: I suppose there are also people who understand that Brexit is in the past, and those who still havent gotten over it.
    If you are American bugger off, none of your business. If not, write "got."
    The distinction is obviously something that you have forgot.
    Howls of risive laughter.
    I;m currently reading The Countess of Pembroke's Arcadia, written in the 1580s/90s by Sir Philip Sidney. He uses 'gotten'. A lot.
    I'm sure American English accidentally preserves a lot of archaic "English English" usage, "gotten" being a fairly well known example.

    But no longer much help in determining from usage who is an American - for those to whom such a distinction is important.
    Some Americanisms are extremely useful. For example,

    Footpath: dotted line on a map that allows a pedestrian to walk across a field.

    Sidewalk: raised margin along a road that allows a pedestrian to stay alive.
    Public footpath and pavement.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,262
    edited November 24
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
  • pillsburypillsbury Posts: 373

    Chris said:

    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    pillsbury said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigel Farage confirms Reform will stand a full slate of candidates at the next election & not make any deals with Conservative MPs. About 13-15% of 2019 Conservatives are already planning to vote Reform so this is another big problem in a long list of problems for Rishi Sunak.
    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1595781501953929216

    Yes, problem there for Sunak. He can only secure those votes by abandoning the soggy middle to Starmer.
    Except that UKIP/Reform/Farage is RUBBISH when it comes to FPTP elections.
    That's true, but isn't the problem for Mr Sunak the votes which Mr Farage and his party's candidates draw off the Conservative candidates?

    Though Labour also, to be fair. Which is now a Brexiter party.
    There are no Brexiter parties because Brexit is in the past. There are only Rejoiners and Stay Outers...

    Edit: I suppose there are also people who understand that Brexit is in the past, and those who still havent gotten over it.
    If you are American bugger off, none of your business. If not, write "got."
    The distinction is obviously something that you have forgot.
    Howls of risive laughter.
    I;m currently reading The Countess of Pembroke's Arcadia, written in the 1580s/90s by Sir Philip Sidney. He uses 'gotten'. A lot.
    I'm sure American English accidentally preserves a lot of archaic "English English" usage, "gotten" being a fairly well known example.

    But no longer much help in determining from usage who is an American - for those to whom such a distinction is important.
    Some Americanisms are extremely useful. For example,

    Footpath: dotted line on a map that allows a pedestrian to walk across a field.

    Sidewalk: raised margin along a road that allows a pedestrian to stay alive.
    Public footpath and pavement.
    Pavement means something else in US English, and they don't have public footpaths anyway

    And back yard actually means garden
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 1,488
    edited November 24
    Um, Brexit... obviously not great. However, hang on a minute: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/24/michelle-mone-ppe-firm-revelations-prompt-anger-in-commons

    If this is even reasonably true, the Conservative Party is about to get taken apart.

    They were flirting with an extinction level event, but if this becomes the news of the next three months then surely it would be completely fatal for the Tories. No wonder Gove is said to be cacking himself.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,486

    @AFP
    #BREAKING Hungary postpones approving Finland and Sweden NATO accession to next year: PM


    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1595809808170749952

    Fairly shameless really - what could possibly be the issue?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903
    edited November 24
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    You really are clueless. Not helped admittedly by one ex-teacher on here who has made a number of, to put it mildly, odd claims about his career.

    Let's just leave it that holidays are not 'off while others are working' (and in fact teachers only got two more weeks holiday than civil servants, and have no choice over when to take it) and you do find teachers who have to work all night to meet tight deadlines, particularly when OFSTED are about to come in.
  • In the USA, as Americans are preparing (or preparing for) their turkey (or whatever) dinners, Americans at this moment have choice between watching

    > Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade in NYC (very traditional American event)
    > Buffalo Bills v Detroit Lions NFL football game in Detroit (ditto)

    And later today

    > National Dog Show in Philadelphia

    > University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff (UAPB) Golden Lions v Alabama State University Hornets at Montgomery =Turkey Day Classic (traditional Black college football match up)

    > New York Giants v Dallas Cowboys at Dallas NFL football

    > Mississippi State University Bulldogs v University of Mississippi (Ole Miss) Runnin' Rebels at Oxford (classic in-state college football rivalry)

    > New England Patriots v Minnesota Vikings at Minneapolis NFL football
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    And yet there is no shortage of capable people who would like to be City lawyers, and an absolute dearth of people willing and able to teach maths and physics.

    It the free market were working, physics teachers should be paid way more, and City lawyers rather less.
    And if externalities were taken into account, a great many city lawyers should be paying us for the work they do...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,594
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    In my experience of corporate all-nighters, a lot of it is just sitting around waiting.
  • kle4 said:

    @AFP
    #BREAKING Hungary postpones approving Finland and Sweden NATO accession to next year: PM


    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1595809808170749952

    Fairly shameless really - what could possibly be the issue?
    How much Hungary, esp. well-connected Hungarians, are gonna get out of letting Finns & Swedes into NATO.

    Hope POTUS, Pentagon, Foggy Bottom, etc REALLY start putting the screws to Orban & rest of his Putinist Goulash Mafia.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,303

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    I'm watching "Industry" atm and it's bringing back vivid memories of silly hours - many spent arsing about - in investment banking. The programme really nails it apart from all the acrobatic promiscuous sex. I don't recall that aspect.
  • pillsburypillsbury Posts: 373
    Cicero said:

    Um, Brexit... obviously not great. However, hang on a minute: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/24/michelle-mone-ppe-firm-revelations-prompt-anger-in-commons

    If this is even reasonably true, the Conservative Party is about to get taken apart.

    They were flirting with an extinction level event, but if this becomes the news of the next three months then surely it would be completely fatal for the Tories. No wonder Gove is said to be cacking himself.

    Good.

    Guardian is really gunning for her. Icing on the cake is, MPs are not allowed to name her as they otherwise could because she is a peer.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,262
    edited November 24

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    And yet there is no shortage of capable people who would like to be City lawyers, and an absolute dearth of people willing and able to teach maths and physics.

    It the free market were working, physics teachers should be paid way more, and City lawyers rather less.
    Why? Capitalism obviously pays most to those taking the biggest risks with the most money.

    You can also be sacked more easily in the City than teaching. You become a teacher as you enjoy your subject, like children and the stability, pension and long holidays.

    You join a City firm mainly for the money despite the long hours
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 17,712
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    And yet there is no shortage of capable people who would like to be City lawyers, and an absolute dearth of people willing and able to teach maths and physics.

    It the free market were working, physics teachers should be paid way more, and City lawyers rather less.
    Why? Capitalism obviously pays most to those taking the biggest risks with the most money.

    You can also be sacked more easily in the City than teaching. You become a teacher as you enjoy your subject, like children and the stability, pension and long holidays.

    You
    Getting paid a fortune for putting other people's money at risk is not taking a risk.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,149

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    And yet there is no shortage of capable people who would like to be City lawyers, and an absolute dearth of people willing and able to teach maths and physics.

    It the free market were working, physics teachers should be paid way more, and City lawyers rather less.
    Why? Capitalism obviously pays most to those taking the biggest risks with the most money.

    You can also be sacked more easily in the City than teaching. You become a teacher as you enjoy your subject, like children and the stability, pension and long holidays.

    You
    Getting paid a fortune for putting other people's money at risk is not taking a risk.
    And inflating the London salaries and house prices as well. Can't think what political party in what area benefits from that.
  • Sunil, how are you celebrating Thanksgiving in Kerala?

    With Cali-cold-cuts?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903
    edited November 24
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    And yet there is no shortage of capable people who would like to be City lawyers, and an absolute dearth of people willing and able to teach maths and physics.

    It the free market were working, physics teachers should be paid way more, and City lawyers rather less.
    Why? Capitalism obviously pays most to those taking the biggest risks with the most money.

    You can also be sacked more easily in the City than teaching. You become a teacher as you enjoy your subject, like children and the stability, pension and long holidays.

    You join a City firm mainly for the money despite the long hours
    Hyufd, teachers join the teaching profession for all sorts of reasons, and you really shouldn't presume to tell other people what they did and why they did it. You can also, contrary to myth, be sacked very easily in teaching, or forced out by a principal via bullying which amounts to the same thing.

    It's that sort of comment that means for all your many sterling qualities you do tend to come across as a bit of a muppet at times.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,262
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    You really are clueless. Not helped admittedly by one ex-teacher on here who has made a number of, to put it mildly, odd claims about his career.

    Let's just leave it that holidays are not 'off while others are working' (and in fact teachers only got two more weeks holiday than civil servants, and have no choice over when to take it) and you do find teachers who have to work all night to meet tight deadlines, particularly when OFSTED are about to come in.
    I have yet meet a teacher who spends the school holidays working full time.

    Again, prep at home for the odd OFSTED every few years not the same as regular all nighters in the office
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,046
    Thinking about one's own maths teachers, you don't need to be above average intelligence or hard-working.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,683
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    You really are clueless. Not helped admittedly by one ex-teacher on here who has made a number of, to put it mildly, odd claims about his career.

    Let's just leave it that holidays are not 'off while others are working' (and in fact teachers only got two more weeks holiday than civil servants, and have no choice over when to take it) and you do find teachers who have to work all night to meet tight deadlines, particularly when OFSTED are about to come in.
    I am absolutely on your side on this, although I think it has gotten (couldn’t resist) worse in recent times. A friend was a maths teacher back 25 years ago and admitted having the best part of six weeks in France every summer. Similarly another friend was head of English at a local school and did similar.
    However that’s one side of the coin, and the other is the brutal term times. I suspect hyfud hs never taught anything. I lecture but it’s not my full hours, but even then it can be tiring. And I’m doing material I know like the back of my hand.
    Every job has pros and cons. Teaching no different. Being an academic at uni suits me perfectly. I have not taken my full leave allocation ever, but mainly because I love what I do and I’m not paid by the hour. I still get a buzz from successful experiments. One of the (very minor) issues is idiots asking what I do all summer…
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,303
    So, the best saved for last. Brazil! Always a treat.

    (Lineker's trousers much improved - more appropriate for a man of 61)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 37,450

    I could go on… but you get the point. Every single personal Twitter account has been deleted from the official profiles of Scot Gov ministers.

    Presumably because misinformation by tweet was out of control, and Scot Gov doesn’t want to be held accountable for it.….

    Nicola Sturgeon’s personal Twitter account has never been listed on her Scot Gov profile page, because she has an official First Minister Twitter account:
    @ScotGovFM


    https://twitter.com/staylorish/status/1595771545896583172

    They have blocked most independence supporters so only talked amongst themselves in any case
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,149
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    You really are clueless. Not helped admittedly by one ex-teacher on here who has made a number of, to put it mildly, odd claims about his career.

    Let's just leave it that holidays are not 'off while others are working' (and in fact teachers only got two more weeks holiday than civil servants, and have no choice over when to take it) and you do find teachers who have to work all night to meet tight deadlines, particularly when OFSTED are about to come in.
    THis thread has gone on holiday ...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    You really are clueless. Not helped admittedly by one ex-teacher on here who has made a number of, to put it mildly, odd claims about his career.

    Let's just leave it that holidays are not 'off while others are working' (and in fact teachers only got two more weeks holiday than civil servants, and have no choice over when to take it) and you do find teachers who have to work all night to meet tight deadlines, particularly when OFSTED are about to come in.
    I have yet meet a teacher who spends the school holidays working full time.

    Again, prep at home for the odd OFSTED every few years not the same as regular all nighters in the office
    I have yet to meet a civil servant who spends any of their holidays doing any work...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,402
    edited November 24
    The ‘three Ps’ that wrecked Boris Johnson’s political career
    The Downfall of Boris Johnson, Sebastian Payne's rollicking account of the PM's last days, is as funny as the best of Tom Sharpe

    Sebastian Payne’s energetic book charting the downfall of Boris Johnson reads more like a comic novel than a biography. To recap: in late 2021, BoJo was riding high off the back of Brexit and the Coronavirus, occupying Left and Right, squatting “like a giant toad across British politics” (to quote a contemporary writer).

    What brought him down within six silly months? “The three Ps”. Owen Paterson, who Boris unwisely tried to protect in wake of a lobbying scandal; Partygate, which he brazened through and almost survived; and Chris Pincher, the whip whose wandering hands goosed a government.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/fall-boris-johnson-sebastian-payne-review-three-ps-brought/ (£££)
  • ChrisChris Posts: 8,890
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    Sometimes you're so stupid as to be entertaining, but often you're just offensive.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    You really are clueless. Not helped admittedly by one ex-teacher on here who has made a number of, to put it mildly, odd claims about his career.

    Let's just leave it that holidays are not 'off while others are working' (and in fact teachers only got two more weeks holiday than civil servants, and have no choice over when to take it) and you do find teachers who have to work all night to meet tight deadlines, particularly when OFSTED are about to come in.
    THis thread has gone on holiday ...
    Looks like the boss has called it back into work...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,262
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    Sometimes you're so stupid as to be entertaining, but often you're just offensive.
    I didn't say anything offensive, just there are benefits to teaching not just whinging about it
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903

    The ‘three Ps’ that wrecked Boris Johnson’s political career
    The Downfall of Boris Johnson, Sebastian Payne's rollicking account of the PM's last days, is as funny as the best of Tom Sharpe

    Sebastian Payne’s energetic book charting the downfall of Boris Johnson reads more like a comic novel than a biography. To recap: in late 2021, BoJo was riding high off the back of Brexit and the Coronavirus, occupying Left and Right, squatting “like a giant toad across British politics” (to quote a contemporary writer).

    What brought him down within six silly months? “The three Ps”. Owen Paterson, who Boris unwisely tried to protect in wake of a lobbying scandal; Partygate, which he brazened through and almost survived; and Chris Pincher, the whip whose wandering hands goosed a government.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/fall-boris-johnson-sebastian-payne-review-three-ps-brought/ (£££)

    I'd have gone for three Ss - Sunak, Sajid and sanity.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903
    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    Sometimes you're so stupid as to be entertaining, but often you're just offensive.
    I didn't say anything offensive, just there are benefits to teaching not just whinging about it
    You didn't say anything offensive and then said - something offensive...
  • ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    You really are clueless. Not helped admittedly by one ex-teacher on here who has made a number of, to put it mildly, odd claims about his career.

    Let's just leave it that holidays are not 'off while others are working' (and in fact teachers only got two more weeks holiday than civil servants, and have no choice over when to take it) and you do find teachers who have to work all night to meet tight deadlines, particularly when OFSTED are about to come in.
    THis thread has gone on holiday ...
    Looks like the boss has called it back into work...
    But it's now phoned in sick, without leaving any cover work.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,262
    edited November 24
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    You really are clueless. Not helped admittedly by one ex-teacher on here who has made a number of, to put it mildly, odd claims about his career.

    Let's just leave it that holidays are not 'off while others are working' (and in fact teachers only got two more weeks holiday than civil servants, and have no choice over when to take it) and you do find teachers who have to work all night to meet tight deadlines, particularly when OFSTED are about to come in.
    I have yet meet a teacher who spends the school holidays working full time.

    Again, prep at home for the odd OFSTED every few years not the same as regular all nighters in the office
    I have yet to meet a civil servant who spends any of their holidays doing any work...
    Civil servants get less holiday than teachers do.

    Fast stream civil servants and permanent secretaries certainly do work long hours
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,824
    An unusual local by-election on the island tonight.

    A funnily drawn ward, taking in a chunk of both the north and south coasts of the island, which prior to boundary changes was represented by the current Tory MP. When he got into Parliament, the Tory candidate and elected councillor for the consequent local by-election was already a sitting UKIP councillor in Portsmouth at the time; he only resigned his Portsmouth seat when the time period for a by-election in that council had passed.

    He went on to lead the Tory Group on the council after they lost their majority, against the trend, in 2021. But he then resigned during the Truss premiership saying that he was resigning his Conservative membership, disillusioned both with it and with politics in general.

    So you’d think a Tory loss was nailed on, except that both the LibDems and Green Party fought the seat last time, splitting the opposition vote, and both defeated candidates are standing again.

    I’d hope for a LibDem gain in current circumstances, but that depends heavily on whether Green supporters think they are still in with a chance.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,262
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    Sometimes you're so stupid as to be entertaining, but often you're just offensive.
    I didn't say anything offensive, just there are benefits to teaching not just whinging about it
    You didn't say anything offensive and then said - something offensive...
    There was nothing offensive, just facts
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    You really are clueless. Not helped admittedly by one ex-teacher on here who has made a number of, to put it mildly, odd claims about his career.

    Let's just leave it that holidays are not 'off while others are working' (and in fact teachers only got two more weeks holiday than civil servants, and have no choice over when to take it) and you do find teachers who have to work all night to meet tight deadlines, particularly when OFSTED are about to come in.
    I have yet meet a teacher who spends the school holidays working full time.

    Again, prep at home for the odd OFSTED every few years not the same as regular all nighters in the office
    I have yet to meet a civil servant who spends any of their holidays doing any work...
    Civil servants get less holiday than teachers do.

    Fast stream civil servants anx permanent secretaries certainly do work long hours
    They get ten weeks when you include flexi and bank holidays. Teachers get twelve, which they have to take at set times (only one bank holiday does not fall routinely within term dates). Try getting time off for a dentist's appointment or a solicitor's appointment in term time, and you will realise why that is an issue.

    And you are suggesting civil servants work longer hours than teachers? Sorry, that is simply not true. They do work comparatively long hours, but they have much more flexibility over when and where to work and much less pressure on deadlines.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,149
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    Sometimes you're so stupid as to be entertaining, but often you're just offensive.
    I didn't say anything offensive, just there are benefits to teaching not just whinging about it
    You didn't say anything offensive and then said - something offensive...
    There was nothing offensive, just facts
    Rather a lot of other people are on leave in school holidays. Ever heard of 'parents'? Yet you said 'in school holidays teachers are off while others are working'. That's quite untrue as any fule kno.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,262
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    And yet there is no shortage of capable people who would like to be City lawyers, and an absolute dearth of people willing and able to teach maths and physics.

    It the free market were working, physics teachers should be paid way more, and City lawyers rather less.
    Why? Capitalism obviously pays most to those taking the biggest risks with the most money.

    You can also be sacked more easily in the City than teaching. You become a teacher as you enjoy your subject, like children and the stability, pension and long holidays.

    You join a City firm mainly for the money despite the long hours
    Hyufd, teachers join the teaching profession for all sorts of reasons, and you really shouldn't presume to tell other people what they did and why they did it. You can also, contrary to myth, be sacked very easily in teaching, or forced out by a principal via bullying which amounts to the same thing.

    It's that sort of comment that means for all your many sterling qualities you do tend to come across as a bit of a muppet at times.
    Compared to most jobs it is harder to get rid of teachers once qualified unless they consistently completely fail OFSTED inspections and have awful exam results or are judged with a criminal offence
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    And yet there is no shortage of capable people who would like to be City lawyers, and an absolute dearth of people willing and able to teach maths and physics.

    It the free market were working, physics teachers should be paid way more, and City lawyers rather less.
    Why? Capitalism obviously pays most to those taking the biggest risks with the most money.

    You can also be sacked more easily in the City than teaching. You become a teacher as you enjoy your subject, like children and the stability, pension and long holidays.

    You join a City firm mainly for the money despite the long hours
    Hyufd, teachers join the teaching profession for all sorts of reasons, and you really shouldn't presume to tell other people what they did and why they did it. You can also, contrary to myth, be sacked very easily in teaching, or forced out by a principal via bullying which amounts to the same thing.

    It's that sort of comment that means for all your many sterling qualities you do tend to come across as a bit of a muppet at times.
    Compared to most jobs it is harder to get rid of teachers once qualified unless they consistently completely fail OFSTED inspections and have awful exam results or are judged with a criminal offence
    No it isn't. As you would know if you had ever been one, or ever represented several - as I have - in cases of wrongful dismissal.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,262

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    And yet there is no shortage of capable people who would like to be City lawyers, and an absolute dearth of people willing and able to teach maths and physics.

    It the free market were working, physics teachers should be paid way more, and City lawyers rather less.
    Why? Capitalism obviously pays most to those taking the biggest risks with the most money.

    You can also be sacked more easily in the City than teaching. You become a teacher as you enjoy your subject, like children and the stability, pension and long holidays.

    You
    Getting paid a fortune for putting other people's money at risk is not taking a risk.
    It us because if they start losing money for clients and the firm they will soon be out
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 5,427

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    And yet there is no shortage of capable people who would like to be City lawyers, and an absolute dearth of people willing and able to teach maths and physics.

    It the free market were working, physics teachers should be paid way more, and City lawyers rather less.
    Teaching however is not a free market is why, a private firm has to pay to the going rate or have a shortage of staff and face losing customers, the public sector doesnt have enough teachers well it doesnt matter as they cant go out of business and by law you still need to send your kids to school regardless of if there are enough teachers. There is therefore no pressure to enhance pay to get sufficient in
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,262
    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    And yet there is no shortage of capable people who would like to be City lawyers, and an absolute dearth of people willing and able to teach maths and physics.

    It the free market were working, physics teachers should be paid way more, and City lawyers rather less.
    Teaching however is not a free market is why, a private firm has to pay to the going rate or have a shortage of staff and face losing customers, the public sector doesnt have enough teachers well it doesnt matter as they cant go out of business and by law you still need to send your kids to school regardless of if there are enough teachers. There is therefore no pressure to enhance pay to get sufficient in
    There is in private schools of course, hence an argument for more choice.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,262
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    Sometimes you're so stupid as to be entertaining, but often you're just offensive.
    I didn't say anything offensive, just there are benefits to teaching not just whinging about it
    You didn't say anything offensive and then said - something offensive...
    There was nothing offensive, just facts
    Rather a lot of other people are on leave in school holidays. Ever heard of 'parents'? Yet you said 'in school holidays teachers are off while others are working'. That's quite untrue as any fule kno.
    Most parents are not both on leave during all the school holidays
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,262
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    And yet there is no shortage of capable people who would like to be City lawyers, and an absolute dearth of people willing and able to teach maths and physics.

    It the free market were working, physics teachers should be paid way more, and City lawyers rather less.
    Why? Capitalism obviously pays most to those taking the biggest risks with the most money.

    You can also be sacked more easily in the City than teaching. You become a teacher as you enjoy your subject, like children and the stability, pension and long holidays.

    You join a City firm mainly for the money despite the long hours
    Hyufd, teachers join the teaching profession for all sorts of reasons, and you really shouldn't presume to tell other people what they did and why they did it. You can also, contrary to myth, be sacked very easily in teaching, or forced out by a principal via bullying which amounts to the same thing.

    It's that sort of comment that means for all your many sterling qualities you do tend to come across as a bit of a muppet at times.
    Compared to most jobs it is harder to get rid of teachers once qualified unless they consistently completely fail OFSTED inspections and have awful exam results or are judged with a criminal offence
    No it isn't. As you would know if you had ever been one, or ever represented several - as I have - in cases of wrongful dismissal.
    Just 14 teachers were sacked in 3 years for incompetence in the whole of Scotland for instance
    https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/14930647.bad-teachers-14-sacked-scotland-three-years-competence-grounds/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,824
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    And yet there is no shortage of capable people who would like to be City lawyers, and an absolute dearth of people willing and able to teach maths and physics.

    It the free market were working, physics teachers should be paid way more, and City lawyers rather less.
    Why? Capitalism obviously pays most to those taking the biggest risks with the most money.

    You can also be sacked more easily in the City than teaching. You become a teacher as you enjoy your subject, like children and the stability, pension and long holidays.

    You join a City firm mainly for the money despite the long hours
    Hyufd, teachers join the teaching profession for all sorts of reasons, and you really shouldn't presume to tell other people what they did and why they did it. You can also, contrary to myth, be sacked very easily in teaching, or forced out by a principal via bullying which amounts to the same thing.

    It's that sort of comment that means for all your many sterling qualities you do tend to come across as a bit of a muppet at times.
    Compared to most jobs it is harder to get rid of teachers once qualified unless they consistently completely fail OFSTED inspections and have awful exam results or are judged with a criminal offence
    No it isn't. As you would know if you had ever been one, or ever represented several - as I have - in cases of wrongful dismissal.
    Just 14 teachers were sacked in 3 years for incompetence in the whole of Scotland for instance
    https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/14930647.bad-teachers-14-sacked-scotland-three-years-competence-grounds/
    So how many people get sacked for incompetence from typical comparable jobs in the private sector?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,149
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    Sometimes you're so stupid as to be entertaining, but often you're just offensive.
    I didn't say anything offensive, just there are benefits to teaching not just whinging about it
    You didn't say anything offensive and then said - something offensive...
    There was nothing offensive, just facts
    Rather a lot of other people are on leave in school holidays. Ever heard of 'parents'? Yet you said 'in school holidays teachers are off while others are working'. That's quite untrue as any fule kno.
    Most parents are not both on leave during all the school holidays
    So? There'll still be more parents than teachers during all the school holidays. You didn't say 'all'. Moving goalposts again.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,262
    edited November 24
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    And yet there is no shortage of capable people who would like to be City lawyers, and an absolute dearth of people willing and able to teach maths and physics.

    It the free market were working, physics teachers should be paid way more, and City lawyers rather less.
    Why? Capitalism obviously pays most to those taking the biggest risks with the most money.

    You can also be sacked more easily in the City than teaching. You become a teacher as you enjoy your subject, like children and the stability, pension and long holidays.

    You join a City firm mainly for the money despite the long hours
    Hyufd, teachers join the teaching profession for all sorts of reasons, and you really shouldn't presume to tell other people what they did and why they did it. You can also, contrary to myth, be sacked very easily in teaching, or forced out by a principal via bullying which amounts to the same thing.

    It's that sort of comment that means for all your many sterling qualities you do tend to come across as a bit of a muppet at times.
    Compared to most jobs it is harder to get rid of teachers once qualified unless they consistently completely fail OFSTED inspections and have awful exam results or are judged with a criminal offence
    No it isn't. As you would know if you had ever been one, or ever represented several - as I have - in cases of wrongful dismissal.
    Just 14 teachers were sacked in 3 years for incompetence in the whole of Scotland for instance
    https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/14930647.bad-teachers-14-sacked-scotland-three-years-competence-grounds/
    So how many people get sacked for incompetence from typical comparable jobs in the private sector?
    5900 bankers sacked for misconduct since financial crisis

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/bankers-uk-misconduct-crash_n_4758543/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,262
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    Sometimes you're so stupid as to be entertaining, but often you're just offensive.
    I didn't say anything offensive, just there are benefits to teaching not just whinging about it
    You didn't say anything offensive and then said - something offensive...
    There was nothing offensive, just facts
    Rather a lot of other people are on leave in school holidays. Ever heard of 'parents'? Yet you said 'in school holidays teachers are off while others are working'. That's quite untrue as any fule kno.
    Most parents are not both on leave during all the school holidays
    So? There'll still be more parents than teachers during all the school holidays. You didn't say 'all'. Moving goalposts again.
    No there will be more teachers off every day off the school holidays than parents off every day
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,542
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    And yet there is no shortage of capable people who would like to be City lawyers, and an absolute dearth of people willing and able to teach maths and physics.

    It the free market were working, physics teachers should be paid way more, and City lawyers rather less.
    Why? Capitalism obviously pays most to those taking the biggest risks with the most money.

    You can also be sacked more easily in the City than teaching. You become a teacher as you enjoy your subject, like children and the stability, pension and long holidays.

    You join a City firm mainly for the money despite the long hours
    Hyufd, teachers join the teaching profession for all sorts of reasons, and you really shouldn't presume to tell other people what they did and why they did it. You can also, contrary to myth, be sacked very easily in teaching, or forced out by a principal via bullying which amounts to the same thing.

    It's that sort of comment that means for all your many sterling qualities you do tend to come across as a bit of a muppet at times.
    Compared to most jobs it is harder to get rid of teachers once qualified unless they consistently completely fail OFSTED inspections and have awful exam results or are judged with a criminal offence
    No it isn't. As you would know if you had ever been one, or ever represented several - as I have - in cases of wrongful dismissal.
    Just 14 teachers were sacked in 3 years for incompetence in the whole of Scotland for instance
    https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/14930647.bad-teachers-14-sacked-scotland-three-years-competence-grounds/
    So how many people get sacked for incompetence from typical comparable jobs in the private sector?
    5900 bankers sacked for misconduct since financial crisis

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/bankers-uk-misconduct-crash_n_4758543/
    No surprise that bankers are more likely to be guilty of misconduct than teachers.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,421
    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    I'm watching "Industry" atm and it's bringing back vivid memories of silly hours - many spent arsing about - in investment banking. The programme really nails it apart from all the acrobatic promiscuous sex. I don't recall that aspect.
    Is that you don’t recall or you don’t recall?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,421
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Driver said:

    nico679 said:

    Not sure removing the working time directive is a good look for the Tories . In this rush to remove anything EU related the right wing papers will be celebrating as workers rights are flushed down the toilet .

    WTD is a joke. I have never worked a job where I didn't have to waive it as a condition of employment.
    I was working at Goldman Sachs when the WTD came out, and HR kindly put a copy of a waiver on everyone's desk to sign.

    I did wonder what the consequences of not signing it would be.
    I asked my boss and he told me that it was the sort of question it was better not to ask!
    Sensible bosses know that having staff working excessive hours is not a recipe for long term success.

    Staying back to meet an important deadline once in a while is fine. Working way above contracted hours every week is quite another.

    Any workplace where that is the accepted culture is not one where I would want to work.
    Then stay away from teaching.
    Only in term time, in school holidays teachers are off while others are working.

    Plus lesson prep at home in the evening is not quite the same as doing an all nighter at a City firm to close a deal, though obviously you get paid more for doing the latter
    And yet there is no shortage of capable people who would like to be City lawyers, and an absolute dearth of people willing and able to teach maths and physics.

    It the free market were working, physics teachers should be paid way more, and City lawyers rather less.
    Why? Capitalism obviously pays most to those taking the biggest risks with the most money.

    You can also be sacked more easily in the City than teaching. You become a teacher as you enjoy your subject, like children and the stability, pension and long holidays.

    You join a City firm mainly for the money despite the long hours
    I’ve met a few people in the City over the years.

    Those who are in it “mainly for the money” hate themselves and their lives.

    It’s a shitty lifestyle that comes at an immense personal cost to yourself and your loved ones. If you don’t love the job itself (and there are many who do) then get the hell out of there
This discussion has been closed.