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Moving the Goalposts – politicalbetting.com

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  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,737
    MaxPB said:

    There's no party of aspiration because the nation is no longer aspirational, it is entitled.
    Owen Paterson definitely is, but I have more hope for the rest of us.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601
    pillsbury said:

    But shirley out of sync? At Paterson time Boris wasn't known to have done anything wrong, much. It wasn't to save Boris. It wasn't to save OP for his own sake (he was after all a comparative oik, went to Radley). It was simply an assertion that the rules didn't apply to Boris or to anyone on his side of the house.
    At the time there was definitely talk of Boris and his cronies being disastisfied with the Standards regime and looking for an opportunity to neuter it. Whether that was with a fear of something specific or just ordinary back covering just in case, visibly demonstrating the rules didn't apply to anyone he chose to protect seems to have been the intent, some misguided projection of strength which blew up in their face.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,640

    You should give it a go. It’s no half bad.
    Have you thought about it? You seem to love the place…
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,575

    You should give it a go. It’s no half bad.
    Says a man who has chosen to live elsewhere...
  • pillsbury said:

    The Trip is a key text in Nordic feminism, believe me.
    “Key text” you say? The weird thing about Nordic Feminism is that it is profoundly popular and definitely not a niche hobby.
  • Have you thought about it? You seem to love the place…
    Yes.

    Yes.

    (Yes.)
  • The punishment is to live in Scotland…
    It is an interesting question, given that the KGB would recruit promising young graduates like David Cameron (who declined) and the Cambridge Spies, in the hope they would go on to have careers where they could be of service to Moscow, what happens to those who never make it? Are the Home Counties littered with only half-believed family rumours about grandad's friendships with lefty Oxbridge tutors back in the day?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,031
    edited November 2022

    £600 of winter fuel allowance is a cost of living grant.

    One of them is going to those on pension credit, but as you yourself say, the winter fuel allowance which ought to be abolished has instead been doubled and who is paying for that? Not the untaxed (relatively) incomes of those who are well off pensioners, that's for sure.
    No it isn't - it is separate and paid to those on pension credit

    The winter fuel allowance for my wife and I as she is over 80 is £300 which this year has been increased to £600 to assist with energy bills

    I did not say the winter fuel allowance should be abolished but the triple lock should

    I have said previously my wife's pension is £4,896 pa and it is only because I paid my taxes and in addition invested into my private pension which is nowhere near the figure you quoted that we are able to manage

    You have a very aggressive attitude to pensioners who in the main do not have second homes income and private £30,000 pensions

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,580
    Not all pensioners, vote Tory!.
    I’ve never done so, and I know many people who are in the same category!
  • pillsbury said:

    The Trip is a key text in Nordic feminism, believe me.
    As in.. Steve Coogan and Rob Brydon?

    The humour in that is pretty bloody British.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,364

    Have you thought about it? You seem to love the place…
    I’ve heard some think Bath is better.
  • ydoethur said:

    Says a man who has chosen to live elsewhere...
    When did anti-immigrant sentiment become de rigueur ?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,152
    Existential crisis for Rishi Sunak tonight as he pulls a vote on housing planning for fear of his first big Tory rebellion.

    He can't blink and dodge big votes for the next two years, can he?

    via @alexwickham and me

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-22/sunak-pulls-uk-housing-vote-as-premier-s-first-tory-revolt-brews
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,575
    edited November 2022

    When did anti-immigrant sentiment become de rigueur ?
    You tell me.

    (Incidentally, it would be 'anti-emigrant sentiment' in your case.)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,737
    rcs1000 said:

    I have a new word that I'm going to use to refer to those who are BAME or the global majority or who are Asian or White or Black or Inuit:

    I'm going with... "People"

    I wonder if it will catch on.
    If they'd been treated as people by the white men in power over the last few centuries, we wouldn't need any of this. But they weren't.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,640

    Yes.

    Yes.

    (Yes.)
    But you are not actually living there. Hmm.
  • When did anti-immigrant sentiment become de rigueur ?
    That is surely, at worst, an anti-emigrant point?
  • It is an interesting question, given that the KGB would recruit promising young graduates like David Cameron (who declined) and the Cambridge Spies, in the hope they would go on to have careers where they could be of service to Moscow, what happens to those who never make it? Are the Home Counties littered with only half-believed family rumours about grandad's friendships with lefty Oxbridge tutors back in the day?
    Oui.

    La déloyauté est la caractéristique déterminante de la nation anglaise.
  • So, not an ISIHAC aficionado? Pity is more appropriate than scorn.
    I think it's OK to say that Bill and Graeme did more comic writing than Tim did. And we still have Graeme Garden, I hope. Who, on top of the gags and performances, has developed two formats, Clue and The Unbelieveable Truth, that look like they will happily run forever.
  • ydoethur said:

    You tell me.

    (Incidentally, it would be 'anti-emigrant sentiment' in your case.)
    Huh?

    I’m both. Obviously. As are all emigrants/immigrants.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601
    Scott_xP said:

    Existential crisis for Rishi Sunak tonight as he pulls a vote on housing planning for fear of his first big Tory rebellion.

    He can't blink and dodge big votes for the next two years, can he?

    via @alexwickham and me

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-22/sunak-pulls-uk-housing-vote-as-premier-s-first-tory-revolt-brews

    So he was going to lose the vote then. What's his solution then? We seem to be going round in circles with regards the planning system, as nothing can get through the Tory MPs.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,640
    RobD said:

    I’ve heard some think Bath is better.
    The religious types, perhaps.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,640

    When did anti-immigrant sentiment become de rigueur ?
    What does that have to do with anything?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,575

    Huh?

    I’m both. Obviously. As are all emigrants/immigrants.
    Yes.

    So if we were disparaging you for your choice, it would be anti-emigrant sentiment because you have emigrated.

    Whereas actually, the reason you're being criticised is for your hypocrisy.
  • I think it's OK to say that Bill and Graeme did more comic writing than Tim did. And we still have Graeme Garden, I hope. Who, on top of the gags and performances, has developed two formats, Clue and The Unbelieveable Truth, that look like they will happily run forever.
    I do not accept the “writers are more remarkable than performers” reasoning. Mutually co-dependants.
  • kle4 said:

    So he was going to lose the vote then. What's his solution then? We seem to be going round in circles with regards the planning system, as nothing can get through the Tory MPs.
    1 Letwin-style indicative votes.
    2 A backdoor Svengali winding everyone up into utter paranoia in order to force an early general election.
    3 Erm...
    4 Forget I said anything.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601

    If they'd been treated as people by the white men in power over the last few centuries, we wouldn't need any of this. But they weren't.
    Not all the global majority were suffering under the thumb of the white men the last few centuries, or all in the same way, or some doing their own treating people badly.

    Even if the proposition were 100% true, coming up with new terminology lumping together all non white people doesn't seem particularly useful. Is changing a group name from BAME to Global Majority, a term so wideranging it seems completely pointless, something anyone 'needs'?
  • RobD said:

    I’ve heard some think Bath is better.
    Yes, but they are an absolute Shower.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,432

    I see PB.com is going with full on eugenics theory tonight.
    We're moving on to phrenology tomorrow, if it's any consolation.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited November 2022
    kle4 said:

    So he was going to lose the vote then. What's his solution then? We seem to be going round in circles with regards the planning system, as nothing can get through the Tory MPs.
    I’m old enough to remember “the anti-growth coalition” ….
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601
    rcs1000 said:

    We're moving on to phrenology tomorrow, if it's any consolation.
    Only retrophrenology thanks
  • No it isn't - it is separate and paid to those on pension credit

    The winter fuel allowance for my wife and I as she is over 80 is £300 which this year has been increased to £600 to assist with energy bills

    I did not say the winter fuel allowance should be abolish but the triple lock should

    You have a very aggressive attitude to pensioners who in the main do not have second homes income and private £30,000 pensions
    I don't have an aggressive attitude to pensioners, I just think pensioners should be treated the same as everyone else.

    There are plenty of people who need help with energy bills and that should be determined based upon need, not age. People with a decent income that aren't paying tax on that income, and live rent-free, shouldn't be the priority for who needs help. If some of those who need support happen to be old, then they should get what they need, but because they need it not because they're old.

    And fixing the tax system so those with private pensions and second homes income pay their fair share of tax, same as those who work for a living, won't negatively affect or harm those who don't have such incomes.
  • kle4 said:

    So he was going to lose the vote then. What's his solution then? We seem to be going round in circles with regards the planning system, as nothing can get through the Tory MPs.
    Doing absolutely nothing would be far better than passing the Villiers amendment.

    First do no harm shouldn't just apply to doctors.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,737
    kle4 said:

    Not all the global majority were suffering under the thumb of the white men the last few centuries, or all in the same way, or some doing their own treating people badly.

    Even if the proposition were 100% true, coming up with new terminology lumping together all non white people doesn't seem particularly useful. Is changing a group name from BAME to Global Majority, a term so wideranging it seems completely pointless, something anyone 'needs'?
    One can have a sensible debate about terminology, but, to be honest, in a thread where one person suggested Native Americans have generally lower IQ because of foetal alcohol syndrome, and someone else suggested that the average population IQ is shrinking because poor people are having too many kids, I'm thinking, no, this is not a place where I can see a sensible debate about terminology happening. Hopefully tomorrow's thread will have advanced beyond the 1920s in its thinking. Good night.
  • So, not an ISIHAC aficionado? Pity is more appropriate than scorn.
    ISIHAC was created by Garden & Oddie as a largely unscripted format because they were too busy on telly to write for radio.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,831

    You laid the blame for Truss's disastrous mini budget squarely on Truss and Kwarteng, which is where it belonged. Shame you seem to be spreading the blame for Sunak and Hunt's attempted asphyxiation of economic growth on 'the nation', 'the 'orrible retired Tories', or anyone else, save Sunak and Hunt, the sorry pair that you claimed would save the economy, despite every indication to the contrary.
    The disaster of the Truss and Kwarteng budget was basic competence. They borrowed to cut taxes and showed no working as to how this would be funded over the medium term. I dare to you try and find any enthusiasm from me for the Hunt/Rishi budget. I think overall it's unimaginative and declinist. I've said so on a number of occasions. The only upside is that it passes the basic competence test and the UK still holds market confidence after it was revealed. Under the former pair the UK was heading towards financial ruin so the bar was set very low, that the autumn statement has cleared that low bar is no surprise.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,137
    kle4 said:

    So he was going to lose the vote then. What's his solution then? We seem to be going round in circles with regards the planning system, as nothing can get through the Tory MPs.
    kle4 said:

    So he was going to lose the vote then. What's his solution then? We seem to be going round in circles with regards the planning system, as nothing can get through the Tory MPs.
    It’s nothing to do with growth or housing; he’s simply trying to do his wealthy property developer mates a favour. And his MPs are rightly calling him out on it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,297
    edited November 2022
    Leon said:

    FPT for @Luckyguy1983

    "Younger people are generally stupider. I think it's dietary."


    +++

    I had a drink with an academic friend yesterday. He was talking about the latest crop of students, 18 and 19, who are the first cohort really impacted by Covid and Lockdowns

    He said it is horrifying. They are clueless and dim, AND their social skills are pitiful, they don't know how to interact, to flirt, charm, persuade. All they can do is scroll their phones, monotonously

    He was already concerned by a decline in intelligence, but this has now - he told me - turned into a freefall

    What have we done?

    I did say phones are a bad idea.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,826
    Leon said:

    lol. Global Majority. I have no doubt @kinabalu will be using it daily

    Does it include Chinese? Inuit? Jews? Cornish? Gays? What? Is it everyone who is a minority and is therefore in a majority because everyone is actually a minority?

    God, I despise this shit. I'd like to dismiss it, but unfortunately, it matters
    Weary and slightly forced chuckle. All but the remarkably unobservant will have noticed that your interest in the precise terminology for ethnic groupings comfortably exceeds mine and indeed almost everyone's.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,297
    edited November 2022
    FPT
    dixiedean said:

    Incidentally. I see 14.5 Australia as stonking value. A probable value loser, but the performances of all the European teams has been disappointing so far. Except one.

    Did you back Australia, and cash out after the first goal, thus making a huge profit?
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,106
    kle4 said:

    So he was going to lose the vote then. What's his solution then? We seem to be going round in circles with regards the planning system, as nothing can get through the Tory MPs.
    The Tory party is ungovernable. We’ve had the ERG spouting their crap, now the NIMBYs. They need an extinction level event clear these MPs out (which is coming). Not sure it can last 2 more years
  • In pleasantly surprising news, its interesting to read that SCOTUS has cleared the way for the Democrat-controlled House to get Trump's tax returns. I fully expected them to stall for deliberations until January by which point the Republicans would control the House.
  • One can have a sensible debate about terminology, but, to be honest, in a thread where one person suggested Native Americans have generally lower IQ because of foetal alcohol syndrome, and someone else suggested that the average population IQ is shrinking because poor people are having too many kids, I'm thinking, no, this is not a place where I can see a sensible debate about terminology happening. Hopefully tomorrow's thread will have advanced beyond the 1920s in its thinking. Good night.
    The prevalence of FAS among native Americans, and the tendency of FAS to reduce IQ, are facts as well established as heliocentricity. The truth of any given proposition is entirely independent of the way you personally feeeel about it, sadly.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,848
    rcs1000 said:

    We're moving on to phrenology tomorrow, if it's any consolation.
    Good, I have some interesting ideas to share on that subject.
  • Good, I have some interesting ideas to share on that subject.
    I'm looking forward to hearing them, but be warned that my bump of scepticism is very pronounced.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,826

    Not all pensioners, vote Tory!.
    I’ve never done so, and I know many people who are in the same category!

    Indeed. My mum has done it just twice and not for many years. My dad has done it more often than is really defensible but even he doesn't do it now.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,848
    edited November 2022
    ...
    MaxPB said:

    The disaster of the Truss and Kwarteng budget was basic competence. They borrowed to cut taxes and showed no working as to how this would be funded over the medium term. I dare to you try and find any enthusiasm from me for the Hunt/Rishi budget. I think overall it's unimaginative and declinist. I've said so on a number of occasions. The only upside is that it passes the basic competence test and the UK still holds market confidence after it was revealed. Under the former pair the UK was heading towards financial ruin so the bar was set very low, that the autumn statement has cleared that low bar is no surprise.
    I think a good idea, poorly executed is better than a bad idea, well executed. One is a bumpy road to a good place, the other is a smooth road to a bad one.
  • I don't have an aggressive attitude to pensioners, I just think pensioners should be treated the same as everyone else.

    There are plenty of people who need help with energy bills and that should be determined based upon need, not age. People with a decent income that aren't paying tax on that income, and live rent-free, shouldn't be the priority for who needs help. If some of those who need support happen to be old, then they should get what they need, but because they need it not because they're old.

    And fixing the tax system so those with private pensions and second homes income pay their fair share of tax, same as those who work for a living, won't negatively affect or harm those who don't have such incomes.
    Why do you hate democracy, boy?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,848
    pillsbury said:

    I'm looking forward to hearing them, but be warned that my bump of scepticism is very pronounced.
    Oh, I thought you were just pleased to see me.

    *ah, my coat*
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,163
    Longer range MLRS ammunition has been sent to Ukraine by Turkey.

    Colby Badhwar 🇨🇦🇬🇧
    @ColbyBadhwar
    BIG DEVELOPMENT: Per
    @IsmailDemirSSB
    , Pres of 🇹🇷 Defence Industry Agency, TRLG 230 can actually hit targets 150km away. Today
    @DefMon3
    posted this map showing what the provision of GLSDBs (also with a 150km range) would look like. I think we now know what 🇺🇦 hit Dzhankoi with.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/ColbyBadhwar/status/1595130495012306944
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,950
    kinabalu said:

    Indeed. My mum has done it just twice and not for many years. My dad has done it more often than is really defensible but even he doesn't do it now.
    My Mam did it just the once and vowed never, ever again.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,950
    edited November 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Did you back Australia, and cash out after the first goal, thus making a huge profit?
    I wish. They were firmly on top at 1-0. Got greedy...
    But I was treating it as a value loser, so not too gutted...
    Much.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,831

    ...

    I think a good idea, poorly executed is better than a bad idea, well executed. One is a bumpy road to a good place, the other is a smooth road to a bad one.
    No it wasn't. The Truss/Kwarteng budget was a one way street to a sovereign debt crisis and eventual national humiliation as we begged the IMF to cover our loan repayments while we won back market confidence and implemented much the same budget measures that Hunt and Rishi have put in place.
  • pillsbury said:

    Why do you hate democracy, boy?
    I don't.

    I will support what I want and vote as I want at the next election. If my beliefs lose the election (and I expect they will since no party matches my beliefs currently) then I will be disappointed but respect that, I won't seek to overturn democracy.

    Do you get it yet? Or do you need some pictures and smaller words?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302
    Big if true:

    Manchester United: Glazer family owners consider selling Premier League club

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63723992
  • geoffw said:

     

    Seriously, engineering a second place is a lot more difficult that winning the group.

    And it can go badly wrong.

    Best to win the group and try to beat France. So far there's good reason to think they could do it.
  • And it can go badly wrong.

    Best to win the group and try to beat France. So far there's good reason to think they could do it.
    If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.

    If we can't beat France, we don't deserve the Cup anyway.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302

    If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.

    If we can't beat France, we don't deserve the Cup anyway.
    In any event, Argentina could well beat France in the round of 16.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,107
    pigeon said:

    That's whataboutery. The average pensioner household now has, after housing costs, a higher disposable income than the average working household. Most pensioners are homeowners. QED.

    State pension income is guaranteed to rise by inflation or more (depending on circumstances) by the triple lock, whereas most earned incomes are in real terms decline. Earned incomes are taxed to absolute fuck to service the Government's expenses (largely pensions, health and social care for pensioners, and a colossal debt racked up during the Covid lockdowns,) whilst taxation of property and inheritances is kept at rock bottom. Childcare costs are allowed to inflate out of control, whilst ministers persist with plans (even if briefly delayed) to cap social care costs so as to allow estates to be preserved. The supply of new homes is deliberately and systematically deprioritised and choked off, so that prices will be kept buoyant, to the advantage of existing owners (i.e. older people.) Even Brexit was a pure and simple case of the will of the aged trumping that of the young. The list goes on.

    Yes, quite a lot of pensioners are hard-up and quite a lot of younger people are very comfortable, but taken as a whole the balance of society is ludicrously tilted in favour of the former and against the latter - and it's at the core of all of our problems as a nation. A country that sinks an ever-greater share of its wealth into servicing the care and interests of unproductive assets (houses) and unproductive people (the retired) is doomed to failure. Britain is doomed to failure. End of story.
    Yes the rich pensioners getting £9K maximum after paying in for up to 50 years , bollox
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,297
    What about this as an idea: teams that come first in their group can choose who they play next.
  • ISIHAC was created by Garden & Oddie as a largely unscripted format because they were too busy on telly to write for radio.
    Yes. And?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,950
    Andy_JS said:

    What about this as an idea: teams that come first in their group can choose who they play next.

    Which group winner gets to choose first?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601

    ...

    I think a good idea, poorly executed is better than a bad idea, well executed. One is a bumpy road to a good place, the other is a smooth road to a bad one.
    I'd be tempted to agree, but that assumes you reach the destination in both cases. When execution might be so poor that you never do. In which case it's nothing more than claiming a good intent makes up for a poor result, the perennial 'good idea in theory/never been done properly'.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,950
    edited November 2022
    The World Cup format means the path to the final is rarely predictable.
    Best to win and play well, and go with the flow.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,297
    edited November 2022
    dixiedean said:
    They're still useful for a lot of people in this country, especially places with poor mobile phone coverage.

    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/public-call-boxes

    "Protecting essential phone boxes

    Public call boxes can provide a safety net for people without access to a landline or working mobile phone. In areas with poor mobile coverage, a public call box can be the only option for making calls, including to the emergency services."
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    France look mustard even without Benzama
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,848
    MaxPB said:

    No it wasn't. The Truss/Kwarteng budget was a one way street to a sovereign debt crisis and eventual national humiliation as we begged the IMF to cover our loan repayments while we won back market confidence and implemented much the same budget measures that Hunt and Rishi have put in place.
    I don't support Kwarteng's budget any more than you support the current one, but I do know that the ambition of Truss Kwarteng was not to end up with a state bigger than in Jeremy Corbyn's wettest dream, which is the effect of Sunak and Hunt's proposals.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,950
    Andy_JS said:

    They're still useful for a lot of people in this country, especially places with poor mobile phone coverage.
    I would agree. They're also important if you're out of credit. For safety. I wouldn't be in favour. Coin operated not so much.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,577
    rcs1000 said:

    We're moving on to phrenology tomorrow, if it's any consolation.
    I can't get your head round phrenology....
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,553
    edited November 2022
    dixiedean said:

    My Mam did it just the once and vowed never, ever again.
    Are we still talking about voting? Just checking.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,779
    MaxPB said:

    I've heard they're hiring like mad to fill development roles. If they can last out the next 3-6 months I wouldn't be surprised if they turn it around completely by the end of next year. I know someone who is still there and he said that it feels like a startup again. The glaring issue is that a startup doesn't usually have a $700m revenue line to maintain and mega clients to keep happy.
    Although @Gardenwalker tells us his last job was running a $250m revenue start up…
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,256

    You should give it a go. It’s no half bad.
    When Blair wanted to house asylum seekers outside London, lawyers claimed that it was against the human rights of refugees to be forced to live in Glasgow or Edinburgh.
  • When Blair wanted to house asylum seekers outside London, lawyers claimed that it was against the human rights of refugees to be forced to live in Glasgow or Edinburgh.
    English lawyers.

    Yawn.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,577

    English lawyers.

    Yawn.
    You'd be all over them like a cheap suit if those English lawyers said you could have another referendum!
  • “ The Labour Party are now to the right of the Conservatives.”

    https://twitter.com/olafdoesstuff/status/1595059766979891200?s=46&t=4AGrhAU-wq-Cj2KCctR2zQ
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,577
    We all backing the Japanese for tomorrow's upset?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,297
    edited November 2022
    To me it seems a no-brainer that it's a good idea to have more than one way of doing something.

    So with money: cash, cheques, credit cards, debit cards, bank payments.
    With communications: mobile phones, landlines, phone boxes, letters, postcards.

    And a bad idea to have only one way of doing something.
  • The punishment is to live in Scotland…
    And listen to people who don't live in Scotland bleat endlessly about how crap it is. All grist to the mill of a Calvinist of course.
  • You'd be all over them like a cheap suit if those English lawyers said you could have another referendum!
    The Scottish nation does not require the permission of a Master Race.
  • …
  • FYI, in December 2020 the #OECD was forecasting that the #UK economy would grow by 4.2% in 2021. The outturn was 7.5%.

    Just two months ago (September) it was forecasting UK growth of 3.4% for 2022. Now it's 4.4%.

    Still, I'm sure its 2023 and 2024 forecasts will be spot on... 😉


    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1595110855301279744
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,432
    dixiedean said:

    Which group winner gets to choose first?
    Most points, best goal difference, goals scored. Etc
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Andy_JS said:

    What about this as an idea: teams that come first in their group can choose who they play next.

    Great idea 👍
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    dixiedean said:

    Which group winner gets to choose first?
    You can choose winner or runner up from your sister group
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,256
    edited November 2022

    English lawyers.

    Yawn.
    They were a pretty varied bunch, IIRC. Think there were some Scots among them. The real reason for the suit was the idea that the refugees were more likely to have family in London already.

    EDIT: But the idea that it was a human rights violation, reminded me of some challenges to deportations that Michael Howard quashed. On the grounds the Netherlands wasn't a homophobic hellhole where gay immigrants get lynched all the time. IIRC, at the time, the Dutch had the best legal and social protections for gay rights in Europe....
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    We all backing the Japanese for tomorrow's upset?

    I hope. But I’m not backing!
  • My wife remains in hospital. Week Three.

    Blocked from leaving for the third time in week by various minor non-entities in the hospital system despite the lead and senior consultant (who has been her main doctor for ten years) demanding she be discharged.

    Today a doctor phoned to say he was literally signing her discharge paperwork, yet she remains there.

    I wont go into details now, but if this ever ends and I get her home, I have a humdinger of header on the utterly failing and yet stubbornly sclerotic and massively tickbox and over paper worked NHS.

    It is beyond belief how many so-called decision makers many of whom seem to have the intelligence of a clam claim to be involved in a discharge and seem to have blocking powers rather than just advisory.

    It is a wonder that anyone ever leaves hospital.

    I suspect a lot of the bed blocking that the media talk about is actually completely self-inflicted by the NHS themselves judging by what I have seen in last week or so.

    I am emotional and very very :angry: tonight.



  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,730
    Andy_JS said:

    To me it seems a no-brainer that it's a good idea to have more than one way of doing something.

    So with money: cash, cheques, credit cards, debit cards, bank payments.
    With communications: mobile phones, landlines, phone boxes, letters, postcards.

    And a bad idea to have only one way of doing something.

    It may be good, but not worth the cost of maintaining five different ways to do one thing. For example, a few decades ago, there weren't five systems. Most people used just cash or cheques / bank drafts.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924

    “ The Labour Party are now to the right of the Conservatives.”

    https://twitter.com/olafdoesstuff/status/1595059766979891200?s=46&t=4AGrhAU-wq-Cj2KCctR2zQ

    Told you so!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,364
    EPG said:

    It may be good, but not worth the cost of maintaining five different ways to do one thing. For example, a few decades ago, there weren't five systems. Most people used just cash or cheques / bank drafts.
    Thankfully we’ve already ditched smoke signals, semaphore, and the telegram.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,950
    edited November 2022

    My wife remains in hospital. Week Three.

    Blocked from leaving for the third time in week by various minor non-entities in the hospital system despite the lead and senior consultant (who has been her main doctor for ten years) demanding she be discharged.

    Today a doctor phoned to say he was literally signing her discharge paperwork, yet she remains there.

    I wont go into details now, but if this ever ends and I get her home, I have a humdinger of header on the utterly failing and yet stubbornly sclerotic and massively tickbox and over paper worked NHS.

    It is beyond belief how many so-called decision makers many of whom seem to have the intelligence of a clam claim to be involved in a discharge and seem to have blocking powers rather than just advisory.

    It is a wonder that anyone ever leaves hospital.

    I suspect a lot of the bed blocking that the media talk about is actually completely self-inflicted by the NHS themselves judging by what I have seen in last week or so.

    I am emotional and very very :angry: tonight.



    Would give that a like. But won't. The last 12 years seem to have been an Amazon of paperwork.
    Whilst promising a bonfire of red tape.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,730
    RobD said:

    Thankfully we’ve already ditched smoke signals, semaphore, and the telegram.
    Cheque clearing in the UK nowadays is based on digital images of course.
  • dixiedean said:

    Would give that a like. But won't. The last 12 years seem to have been an Amazon of paperwork.
    Whilst promising a bonfire of red tape.
    When @Foxy is next around he might be able to comment but seems to me that a load of totally semi-medical non-entities are allowed to sit in discharge meetings and literally block the lead consultant's decisions based on their own minor bollocks e.g concerned about her diet.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,577

    “ The Labour Party are now to the right of the Conservatives.”

    https://twitter.com/olafdoesstuff/status/1595059766979891200?s=46&t=4AGrhAU-wq-Cj2KCctR2zQ

    That won't stand up to scrutiny within days of a Labour Govt., Nige.

    Labour will still be looking to load the private sector with a mass of taxes and borrowing to give to the public sector. Which will cause the same old crash in employment it always does.

    Of course, Farage knows this to be true.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,831

    My wife remains in hospital. Week Three.

    Blocked from leaving for the third time in week by various minor non-entities in the hospital system despite the lead and senior consultant (who has been her main doctor for ten years) demanding she be discharged.

    Today a doctor phoned to say he was literally signing her discharge paperwork, yet she remains there.

    I wont go into details now, but if this ever ends and I get her home, I have a humdinger of header on the utterly failing and yet stubbornly sclerotic and massively tickbox and over paper worked NHS.

    It is beyond belief how many so-called decision makers many of whom seem to have the intelligence of a clam claim to be involved in a discharge and seem to have blocking powers rather than just advisory.

    It is a wonder that anyone ever leaves hospital.

    I suspect a lot of the bed blocking that the media talk about is actually completely self-inflicted by the NHS themselves judging by what I have seen in last week or so.

    I am emotional and very very :angry: tonight.



    I think it's time to just walk up and leave, the NHS seems to give no fuck about patients, just their precious boxes that need ticking. Really hope everything works out mate.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,169
    dixiedean said:
    Apparently they are still used quite a lot in the UK for 999 calls. Needless street clutter imo, assume they are retained for the advertising. There is an energetic campaign to remove them round me.

    My next adversary is those huge electric billboards that the council keep placing in the middle of the pavement. Apparently have the same carbon footprint as a two bed house.
  • MaxPB said:

    I think it's time to just walk up and leave, the NHS seems to give no fuck about patients, just their precious boxes that need ticking. Really hope everything works out mate.
    Thanks.

    I am actively considering forcing a self-discharge on her behalf if you see what I mean.

    The problem is they are are all a mixture of a) well meaning b) covering their own arses c) unable to see the whole picture of the person and their life. Item b seems to win out.

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,169
    malcolmg said:

    Yes the rich pensioners getting £9K maximum after paying in for up to 50 years , bollox
    Why do we means test every other benefit except for the State Pension? Why is it the only benefit that goes up by the triple lock?

    That 9k would be far better directed at someone disabled, or invested elsewhere.
This discussion has been closed.