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Support for Brexit drops to new low with YouGov – politicalbetting.com

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  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    edited July 2022
    All of the above from Torsten Bell’s (Resolution Foundation) weekly newsletter.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,138
    @GoodwinMJ
    ·
    2h
    "I'm looking at the candidates", says one MP, "and I'm beginning to think we should never have dumped Boris".

    And so it begins.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1547954110745366529?s=20&t=tZll7428ACJvQAfvyDML9g
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    eristdoof said:

    Did you get your fraction the wrong way round, or do you really spend 3000 pounds on a pair of decent shoes?
    I did wonder a little bit, but one never knows on PB, and at least one other poster does like his footwear, so why not? But quite right to check. My own shoes do tend to cost about £80.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,440
    edited July 2022

    Well you are happy killing off large numbers of people just to maintain your standard of living so I hardly think your view can be taken as a balanced one.
    I'm not happy "killing off" anyone. I'm not proposing Logan's Run.

    I accept the fact people die of natural causes. That's just natural.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    What's a 'body worn video.' ? I think they must have left the word 'camera' off the end of the sentence, both in the main text and the picture caption.

    Yep, there will be issues with police trying to cheat the system. But if that happens, and a suspect accuses them of something, it sort-of makes them look a little bit more guilty, doesn't it?
    True. But may also ensure that key evidence never sees the light of day.

    Which generally results is large monetary damages paid out by governments > taxpayers (as is gonna happen here in Seattle due to erasure of key texts by Mayor and Police Chief) but the actual culprits get off the hook with respect to civil AND criminal liability,
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,432
    Farooq said:

    The entirety of capitalism is predicated on the idea of debt being good. Anyone who thinks it's evil is a Communist or a Muslim.
    Eh?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,224

    “Having almost caught up with the economies of France and Germany from the 1990s to the mid-2000s, the UK’s productivity gap with them has almost tripled since 2008 from 6 per cent to 16 per cent…

    …weak growth is the reason real wages saw no growth over ten years in the 2010s, having grown by an average of 33 per cent a decade from 1970 to 2007.”

    George Osborne. Plan A. Insert Ed Balls' flatline hand gesture here.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,432

    The closer she gets to Truss in the next round the better too: hopefully will focus minds that she (Truss) just isn’t a good candidate.
    If (as seems likely) TT drops out after the debates, then she'll need to get a move on - because the lowest of Truss and Badenoch will be out.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,138
    @OlafScholz
    Thank you
    @keir_starmer
    , for visiting Berlin today.

    I am convinced: Together we can and will manage the challenges and embrace the opportunities we all face. In #Germany, in the #UK and all over Europe.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,432
    Farooq said:

    The entirety of capitalism is predicated on the idea of debt being good.
    Because capitalism is about making money off lending/investments.

    Anyone who thinks it's evil is a Communist or a Muslim.
    Debt is not generally seen as an evil except people who have strong ideological or religious reasons to hate it. E.g. Communists or Muslims.

    I don't know what was hard to understand in that?
    Just because you say something, doesn't mean it's true.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,432

    1.
    Income is over-taxed.
    Wealth is under-taxed.
    Investment and competition is under-incentivised.
    Rentierism and monopoly is over-incentivised.

    2.
    UK is already one of the most deregulated economies in the OECD, so it seems likely doing more of that, in itself, is not the answer.

    I would tend to agree with that. We want to encourage work, not discourage it. And we want to encourage the efficient allocation of capital.

    A modest wealth tax - or as I prefer, a Gross Assets Levy - would be a good thing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    I'm not happy "killing off" anyone. I'm not proposing Logan's Run.

    I accept the fact people die of natural causes. That's just natural.
    Logan's Run was natural in the sense that the drugs and the syringe were made of 100% natural elements.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,197

    I'm not happy "killing off" anyone. I'm not proposing Logan's Run.

    I accept the fact people die of natural causes. That's just natural.
    And something of a cause, perhaps?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,432
    HYUFD said:

    @GoodwinMJ
    ·
    2h
    "I'm looking at the candidates", says one MP, "and I'm beginning to think we should never have dumped Boris".

    And so it begins.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1547954110745366529?s=20&t=tZll7428ACJvQAfvyDML9g

    If the tweet was from anyone other than Mathew Goodwin, I'd take it a bit more seriously.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302
    rcs1000 said:

    Just because you say something, doesn't mean it's true.
    This is a very interesting series on debt.

    "Promises, Promises: A History of Debt"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b054zdp6

    Makes a convincing point that debt is absolutely essential for society, and civilisation couldn't have developed without it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    rcs1000 said:

    If the tweet was from anyone other than Mathew Goodwin, I'd take it a bit more seriously.
    Is the MP in question Joris Bohnson?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,432
    edited July 2022
    Farooq said:

    So you disagree? Fine, I'm happy to listen to counterarguments. But "Eh?" wasn't exactly a good way of expressing that. I took it to mean you didn't understand what I was saying.
    Well, shall we start with agreeing what debt is?

    Debt and saving are opposite sides of the same coin. You cannot having saving without debt. Because saving is someone choosing not to consume now, because they wish to consume in the future. And debt is someone choosing to consume now, on the proviso that they will hand over some portion of their economic output in the future.

    Debt and saving are mechanisms for the time transfer of work.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Christ alive the Penny hate is reaching red alert levels

    Daniel Moylan says that when Penny Mordaunt was hired to be Head of Communications for Kensington and Chelsea Council he had to fire her because “she was incompetent… she couldn’t do the job”.

    https://order-order.com/2022/07/15/mordaunts-former-boss-says-he-sacked-her-for-incompetence/
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302
    HYUFD said:

    @GoodwinMJ
    ·
    2h
    "I'm looking at the candidates", says one MP, "and I'm beginning to think we should never have dumped Boris".

    And so it begins.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1547954110745366529?s=20&t=tZll7428ACJvQAfvyDML9g


    Though presumably a sizeable minority of tory MPs never wanted to dump him.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,432
    Farooq said:

    Do we? Work is a means to an end. I think we generally work too much, so "encouraging" it feels like the wrong direction.
    Yes.

    People who don't work are massively more likely to suffer from depression, ill health, etc.

    Work means routine. And humans thrive on routine. It's not for nothing that we say that routine is the spice of life.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,309
    IshmaelZ said:

    Christ alive the Penny hate is reaching red alert levels

    Daniel Moylan says that when Penny Mordaunt was hired to be Head of Communications for Kensington and Chelsea Council he had to fire her because “she was incompetent… she couldn’t do the job”.

    https://order-order.com/2022/07/15/mordaunts-former-boss-says-he-sacked-her-for-incompetence/

    The nasty party writ large. I wonder if they do need some cooling off time in opposition.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    @GoodwinMJ
    ·
    2h
    "I'm looking at the candidates", says one MP, "and I'm beginning to think we should never have dumped Boris".

    And so it begins.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1547954110745366529?s=20&t=tZll7428ACJvQAfvyDML9g

    Well, look at Rishi. two months ago we were all thinking the non dom shit n stuff was him finished, 8 weeks later all forgotten and he is the one to beat for the top job. Who was this Pincher guy anyway?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,690

    I don't agree that debt is always bad.

    For example, buying with a credit card gives you infinitely more protection via Section 75 than a debit card.

    I pretty much all my card transactions are on credit card primarily for those reasons and the fact that I get squillions of rewards with my cards.

    For example I get £400 pounds worth of Nectar Points each year.

    But I concede I was harsh on that woman.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    Yes.

    People who don't work are massively more likely to suffer from depression, ill health, etc.

    Work means routine. And humans thrive on routine. It's not for nothing that we say that routine is the spice of life.
    Only on average, and the causation is not all one way. I succumbed to chronic ergophobia in my late 40s, and I get on just fine. Orsiz for corsiz.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,550
    edited July 2022

    I pretty much all my card transactions are on credit card primarily for those reasons and the fact that I get squillions of rewards with my cards.

    For example I get £400 pounds worth of Nectar Points each year.

    But I concede I was harsh on that woman.
    In addition to that (Nectar, M&S points, etc) I also use 0% cards and 0%, no fee balance transfer cards to borrow money foc. When interest rates were previously around 5 - 6% I was borrowing around £100,000 using these cards so earning £5K interest using other peoples money. The more I took out the better my credit rating seemed to get.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,640
    IshmaelZ said:

    And...?

    It's trad that Balthasar was black. I have slept 6 to a bed with perfect strangers in Pyrenean mountain huts. Not taking your crown off to go to bed is the only noteworthy thing I am seeing there
    What goes on in Pyrenean mountain huts stays in Pyrenean mountain huts.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Multiplicity of Tory leadership debates strikes yours truly as truly good thing, for Tories.

    While party members, pundits (pungent, PB or otherwise) may complain re: breath & depth of field, they cannot IMHO claim they did not have opportunity to hear & evaluate the candidates and their views, despite the very short time frame for the MP top two process.

    Of course also creates opportunities for Labour, Lib Dems, SNP and PC (plus rising threat of extreme Cornish nationalism) to seize upon what is said to beat the next PM and Tory Party about the head and shoulders. But them's the breaks.

    On balance, a plus for Conservative Party. Rare right now, and all the more valuable for that.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,554

    I pretty much all my card transactions are on credit card primarily for those reasons and the fact that I get squillions of rewards with my cards.

    For example I get £400 pounds worth of Nectar Points each year.

    But I concede I was harsh on that woman.
    Humble brag....
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    I pretty much all my card transactions are on credit card primarily for those reasons and the fact that I get squillions of rewards with my cards.

    For example I get £400 pounds worth of Nectar Points each year.

    But I concede I was harsh on that woman.
    Sounds like you'd be (and perhaps actually are) good at giving good advice re: credit & debt to those who need it?

    By coincidence, was just reading about Jesse Jones, legendary Texas businessman and key player in FDR's New Deal (though JJ was never himself a New Dealer) who made his fortune, created modern Houston (for better or worse, mostly former) AND helped save capitalism in America (no joke).

    His entire career was based on super-intelligent use of credit.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_H._Jones

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,690
    edited July 2022

    Humble brag....
    Nah, most of those Nectar points were pre plague work expenses.

    Plus remember in those days I was getting Nectar points on TPE, Virgin/Avanti Trains, and LNER trains, with bonus offers, at times the train tickets almost became free.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,712

    Wealth has grown from 3x to 8x national GDP since the 1980s, but wealth taxes haven’t moved.

    Do you have those figures with primary residence equity removed? I mean, equity is real money, but it would be useful to have both sets of figures to see how much is house price inflation…
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867
    MaxPB said:

    Spoke to work and they're happy for people to bring family members in on Monday and Tuesday to hang out in our lovely AC office space. My wife and daughter are set to Uber their way in at 10ish and we're setting up a few meeting rooms that already have sofas and TVs for family members who are escaping the heat.

    I think I'm very lucky to have an employer who cares about it's people so much because they could easily have said no, but instead they've allocated a bunch of meeting rooms and given us from 8am to 10am to organise them for people to hang out in.

    That's nice. Well done to your employer
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,292
    rcs1000 said:

    Well, shall we start with agreeing what debt is?

    Debt and saving are opposite sides of the same coin. You cannot having saving without debt. Because saving is someone choosing not to consume now, because they wish to consume in the future. And debt is someone choosing to consume now, on the proviso that they will hand over some portion of their economic output in the future.

    Debt and saving are mechanisms for the time transfer of work.
    And are therefore the "time transfer of work" is monetised and becomes a commodity to be traded, and hence intrinsic to capitalism.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    What goes on in Pyrenean mountain huts stays in Pyrenean mountain huts.
    Notion that people together in a bed MUST be there for something other than sleep, is product of 20th century.

    Most ludicrous example: fact that Abraham Lincoln often shared a bed with other lawyers while touring the judicial circuit in frontier Illinois, is taken as proof-positive that he (and they) were gay.

    When alternate explanation - that beds were in rather short supply, and that sharing was preferable to sleeping on the floor - is just a wee bit more likely.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,253
    IshmaelZ said:

    TSE claims that he does.

    I have a pair of boots which cost £6,000 (but not to me, I scored them on ebay for £50)
    Schneider’s ??
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867
    edited July 2022

    The nasty party writ large. I wonder if they do need some cooling off time in opposition.

    I've been saying that for some time. They've lost their desire to win and want to put ideological purity over all else.

    A small Labour majority with Tories going into Opposition and Kemi becoming LOTO to PM Starmer would be the best outcome at the next election I think.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,989
    edited July 2022
    deleted - blockquotes went haywire
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    I thought Penny Mordaunt came across well in her interview . The attacks on her by Moylan and Frost make me warm to her more given those attacking her are loathsome characters .

    And if she pisses off the Daily Mail that’s another plus .
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    edited July 2022

    Eh?
    The entirety of capitalism is predicated on the idea of debt being good.
    Because capitalism is about making money off lending/investments.

    Anyone who thinks it's evil is a Communist or a Muslim.
    Debt is not generally seen as an evil except people who have strong ideological or religious reasons to hate it. E.g. Communists or Muslims.

    I don't know what was hard to understand in that?
    So how come it is always socialist governments that end up defaulting on their debt?


    ...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited July 2022

    Eh?
    FAROOQ - The entirety of capitalism is predicated on the idea of debt being good.
    Because capitalism is about making money off lending/investments.

    Anyone who thinks it's evil is a Communist or a Muslim.
    Debt is not generally seen as an evil except people who have strong ideological or religious reasons to hate it. E.g. Communists or Muslims.

    I don't know what was hard to understand in that?

    NOA - So how come it is always socialist governments that end up defaulting on their debt?


    SSI - Philip II of Spain (Queen Mary's hubby) was a socialist?

    Or maybe a communist, seeing he was a serial defaulter: 1557, 1560, 1569, 1575, and 1596.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,989
    Farooq said:



    The entirety of capitalism is predicated on the idea of debt being good.
    Because capitalism is about making money off lending/investments.

    Anyone who thinks it's evil is a Communist or a Muslim.
    Debt is not generally seen as an evil except people who have strong ideological or religious reasons to hate it. E.g. Communists or Muslims.

    I don't know what was hard to understand in that?
    So how come it is always socialist governments which default on their debt?
    If they hate debt, why do they borrow so much?
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,964

    There is a small war going on. You may have seen something in the news about it. We are training some of the soldiers fighting in it. See my link above.

    Imagine telling a Ukrainian recruit that we are stopping their training because the grass is too dry.
    The alternative was to stop it because everything around them had caught fire...... Great military minds......
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    edited July 2022

    The entirety of capitalism is predicated on the idea of debt being good.
    Because capitalism is about making money off lending/investments.

    Anyone who thinks it's evil is a Communist or a Muslim.
    Debt is not generally seen as an evil except people who have strong ideological or religious reasons to hate it. E.g. Communists or Muslims.

    I don't know what was hard to understand in that?
    So how come it is always socialist governments that end up defaulting on their debt?


    Philip II of Spain (Queen Mary's hubby) was a socialist?

    Or maybe a communist, seeing he was a serial defaulter: 1557, 1560, 1569, 1575, and 1596.

    Exactly what I was trying to say, though I would also add the rather more recent Charles Stuart. Vanilla got in the way with the blockquotes ...

    And, I see on checking ,also a number of Yoo-nited States, most recently Arkansas in 1933. Obvs raving commies the lot.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    rcs1000 said:

    Yes.

    People who don't work are massively more likely to suffer from depression, ill health, etc.

    Work means routine. And humans thrive on routine. It's not for nothing that we say that routine is the spice of life.
    A muddling of cause and effect. Somehow one suspects that people without jobs who are sick suffer because they are impoverished and not because they don't have a tedious employer to please.

    I strongly suspect that people who don't bother to work anymore because they are rich enough not to need to are, on average, healthier and happier than workers in minimum wage crap jobs. Or almost all other jobs, come to think of it.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,640

    Notion that people together in a bed MUST be there for something other than sleep, is product of 20th century.

    Most ludicrous example: fact that Abraham Lincoln often shared a bed with other lawyers while touring the judicial circuit in frontier Illinois, is taken as proof-positive that he (and they) were gay.

    When alternate explanation - that beds were in rather short supply, and that sharing was preferable to sleeping on the floor - is just a wee bit more likely.
    Ah but was Abe ever in a Pyrenean mountain hut? We need to know.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,138
    edited July 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    If the tweet was from anyone other than Mathew Goodwin, I'd take it a bit more seriously.
    'Remarkable quotes from source close to Starmer. Starmer always felt with Boris in charge "Labour would end up losing". But now not scared at all.'

    “Despite the sleaze, he thought that by 2024 it would have faded into the background and Labour would struggle to win back the seats in the north and Midlands that it lost in 2019. That’s now changed.”

    “Yes, we’re going to need a change of approach because you haven’t got the probity card to play,” they said. “But someone like Sunak is vulnerable to traditional attack lines. He’s very rich and people don’t like that. Mordaunt is a bit more unknowable but she could well implode.”



    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1547998482769670147?s=20&t=XZy3ZB_0ZVu0qhwaL7XalA

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1547998571265286146?s=20&t=XZy3ZB_0ZVu0qhwaL7XalA

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    ClippP said:

    The alternative was to stop it because everything around them had caught fire...... Great military minds......
    GRass fires can be surprisingly lethal. There is a fine book about a fire in Montana and the smokejumpers who died in it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mann_Gulch_fire
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,550
    edited July 2022
    kjh said:

    In addition to that (Nectar, M&S points, etc) I also use 0% cards and 0%, no fee balance transfer cards to borrow money foc. When interest rates were previously around 5 - 6% I was borrowing around £100,000 using these cards so earning £5K interest using other peoples money. The more I took out the better my credit rating seemed to get.
    When I say borrow I mean not having to pay off what I spend and then when the 0% period is about to expire transfer it to a no transfer fee 0% card.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,485
    Lovely evening here in East London - if this were summer, I'd be happy.

    I'm told there are people who enjoy extreme heat - I'm not one of them. I have seen the humidity numbers for Tuesday and they offer some hope it won't be the sticky humid heat we usually get in London.

    The Arpege model (which is often used by weather watchers for what are called now-casting events) has the core of the heat to the north of London on Monday with mid afternoon maximums of 37-38c. On Tuesday, there's a line stretching from London to south Yorkshire which exceeds 40c by mid afternoon - we could easily see a 41c out of that somewhere but it's a narrow if long area.

    The heat is chased out from the south west with the last remnants leaving Lincolnshire after dark - by Wednesday morning London is a chilly 21c.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,847
    rcs1000 said:

    This may - or may not - be related to Biden's Middle East visit.
    It doesn't really feel like news to me. They've been working together covertly quite a lot. Whether that's a good thing or not depends if you're on the receiving end I suppose.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,571
    stodge said:

    Lovely evening here in East London - if this were summer, I'd be happy.

    I'm told there are people who enjoy extreme heat - I'm not one of them. I have seen the humidity numbers for Tuesday and they offer some hope it won't be the sticky humid heat we usually get in London.

    The Arpege model (which is often used by weather watchers for what are called now-casting events) has the core of the heat to the north of London on Monday with mid afternoon maximums of 37-38c. On Tuesday, there's a line stretching from London to south Yorkshire which exceeds 40c by mid afternoon - we could easily see a 41c out of that somewhere but it's a narrow if long area.

    The heat is chased out from the south west with the last remnants leaving Lincolnshire after dark - by Wednesday morning London is a chilly 21c.

    Thank the Gods it looks like this will be a two day heat event.

  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,273
    nico679 said:

    I thought Penny Mordaunt came across well in her interview . The attacks on her by Moylan and Frost make me warm to her more given those attacking her are loathsome characters .

    And if she pisses off the Daily Mail that’s another plus .

    I fear it will take it's toll on her, perhaps even in the debate tonight. I know that you should expect attacks in the running for this position, but it's all one target at the moment. Everyone is human, everyone has a breaking point.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,575
    pigeon said:

    A muddling of cause and effect. Somehow one suspects that people without jobs who are sick suffer because they are impoverished and not because they don't have a tedious employer to please.

    I strongly suspect that people who don't bother to work anymore because they are rich enough not to need to are, on average, healthier and happier than workers in minimum wage crap jobs. Or almost all other jobs, come to think of it.
    Certainly than those who have the misfortune to work in health or education in this country…
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,788
    rcs1000 said:

    Yes.

    People who don't work are massively more likely to suffer from depression, ill health, etc.

    Work means routine. And humans thrive on routine. It's not for nothing that we say that routine is the spice of life.
    Eh? I absolutely love not working. And, in retirement, I reckon I have more routines than I did when working.
    Logging on to PB at 8.18 every morning, for example.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,575

    Thank the Gods it looks like this will be a two day heat event.

    Will the grand final be at a later stage?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,847
    ydoethur said:

    I smell bullshit. It seems highly improbable anyone was fired by RBKC for incompetence or they would have no staff left.

    Who knows, perhaps Penny does have a competency issue. But she's following Boris. As long as she keeps her willy to herself and appoints a reasonable cabinet, she'll look great by comparison.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    There is a small war going on. You may have seen something in the news about it. We are training some of the soldiers fighting in it. See my link above.

    Imagine telling a Ukrainian recruit that we are stopping their training because the grass is too dry.
    As I recall, there was also some international unpleasantness post-9/11.

    Just as that Labour flack decided that 9/11 was excellent for burying other bad news, so did the US military trot it out for ANYTHING they wanted to do but had been prevented in the past, thanks to (no doubt wokish) inconvenient (for them) laws and regulations.

    The attempt to endanger Seattle's public drinking water supply (one of the best in the world) being especially ignorant AND egregious. And apparently unnecessary, as military found some other places and ways to train soldiers. Certainly was NOT a problem (or THE problem) with invasion of Iraq and war in Afghanistan.

    Your argument fails for lack of sufficient bull-shit detection (as already noted) seeing as how UKR training was impeded MORE by setting Salisbury Plain on fire, than it would have been by AVOIDING setting it on fire in the first place.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,847
    jonny83 said:

    I fear it will take it's toll on her, perhaps even in the debate tonight. I know that you should expect attacks in the running for this position, but it's all one target at the moment. Everyone is human, everyone has a breaking point.
    If she gets ganged up on in the debate, it'll make the other candidates look bad. I think they'll be clever enough not to do that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    THis thread has died a natural death, thanks to Mike Smithson, but it doesn't matter because it was over 65 or something.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    jonny83 said:

    I fear it will take it's toll on her, perhaps even in the debate tonight. I know that you should expect attacks in the running for this position, but it's all one target at the moment. Everyone is human, everyone has a breaking point.
    Far betting that breaking point be reached in a (pre-) leadership debate, than AFTER elevation as Prime Minister?

    Like Harry Truman famously said - if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    If she gets ganged up on in the debate, it'll make the other candidates look bad. I think they'll be clever enough not to do that.
    And if PM4PM - or any other hopeful - gets ganged up on AND holds her own, it makes her look good.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    NEW THREAD
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    ydoethur said:

    I smell bullshit. It seems highly improbable anyone was fired by RBKC for incompetence or they would have no staff left.

    Logic failure. We're talking about senior management level.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,401
    The heat makes me horny.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,575

    Who knows, perhaps Penny does have a competency issue. But she's following Boris. As long as she keeps her willy to herself and appoints a reasonable cabinet, she'll look great by comparison.
    Is this why she talks so much about transgender issues?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,401
    rcs1000 said:

    Yes.

    People who don't work are massively more likely to suffer from depression, ill health, etc.

    Work means routine. And humans thrive on routine. It's not for nothing that we say that routine is the spice of life.
    Well, curry is the spice of life really.

    So I have a routine curry.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,137
    And we’re off on C4
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,898
    Here we go ...
  • TresTres Posts: 2,821

    However bad things get, fentanyl isn't the solution.
    Never had an endoscopy?
  • I like to condense things

    Here are my two word assessments of each candidate

    Truss - haziest bluster (I’ll never do better than that anagram)
    Sunak - Putin’s favourite
    Mordant - woo woo?
    Tugendhat - ok gone
    Badenoch - wtf not

  • XipeXipe Posts: 47
    Test
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