Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
Just shows, for all the hype about the CL, the league is truly the one.
Political betting news. Since voting began in Australian election, the polling has been the worst yet for Labour. There’s clearly been a lot of swingback from midterm, or even more than mid term, just few months ago, in this election; the trend is not Labours friend, they don’t appear to have gained any momentum from the campaign. It might still be tight, but the smart bet now is no change of government?
Yes new Essential and Resolve polls have the Labor lead slashed on 2PP to just 51% to 49%, a deficit margin Howard's government in 1998 and Hawke's in 1990 got re elected with.
Resolve has the Coalition leading Labor now 34% to 31% on the primary vote too
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Sky reporting upto 50 mps are currently under investigation for sex and sexual assault allegations
It just makes you despair at the lack of integrity and decency by the political classes
The old adage about power bring an aphrodisiac really just means those in power abusing it to abuse others. Time that was ended once and for all. Be kind. Be good. And if you can't be kind and good, fuck off.
Hey Woolie, sorry to hear of your travails. So glad you are getting some attention
If it helps, I was down there in the darkness, with the black dog howling, during the worst of Covid - just like you. I split with my wife partly for Covid reasons (a painful split as we were still very close), then I had to face lockdown 3 - the winter one - all alone in a one bed flat in Camden when every single thing that usually keeps me sane - from friends to pubs to sun to restaurants to travel to art galleries and sex - was taken away from me. I felt actually suicidal a few times, and - weirder and somehow worse - later I behaved suicidally - eg driving at 140mph at noon for no reason
Crazy shit
I am very glad I did not do myself in. I am now in a much much happier place - I still have my mood swings but they are normal. I will always have them. What happened during Covid was an order of magnitude worse than the average bipolar blues
Anyway. Stick in there. And stay on PB. I found it an invaluable source of company at my loneliest moments….
Thank you Leon. The small flat, alone; where once youth and beauty shone, I get 100% I'm something of a physical and mental wretch now. Disabled with horrors ravaging the insides. Has been quite the culture shock as i used to think myself indestructible, immortal, unstoppable. But I'm not. Now I'm a young old man who plays chess and remembers when life was bar lights and pretty girls who now have fled further even than the time that separates us. But I'm Woolie. And I always will be. I've been strangling black dogs since i was 10. Fuck em. I've seen enough to laugh at the pompous, the famous, the pretenders and the cruel. Just a lad from working class stock who got given a brain and a grin and has rinsed the shit out of both.
I can only hope you feel better soon.
When I was a kid, I felt low - I guess we all do. "The world doesn't understand me" Adrian Mole-style pretentious crap. Having talked to people since, I realised that although I felt low, the black dog never stalked me. I've always been someone who is more 'up' than 'down'. Even when I got told I would never walk properly again, when I had a first operation only to find a friend had died - even through the bad times, it never stalked me.
But I have seen enough people 'down' to realise the black dog is real, and that I've been blooming lucky.
Oddly, I've never seen myself as indestructible, immortal or unstoppable. Quite the opposite. Yet depression has never really been a problem. Odd, really.
I think the indestructible, immortal stuff was a consequnece of the black dog. I had to think that or I'd not have made the morning sometimes (and the first time I don't there's no do over) . With his maw round my neck and his breath suffocating me. The delusion came at a price. Too much, too often, too hard etc. But now I can't pretend I'm immortal I at least know I can, I have, and I will beat the dog. However long it takes or how often I have to.
If it’s any help, I’m someone else who fights the black dog, I have always in the depths of an episode constantly told myself “it’s not real - it’s a chemical/biological process in the brain - a sort of “fake brain news” and by reminding myself constantly it keeps a sense of balance and proportion.
Funnily enough recently I was having a conversation with a great friend who is a very senior medic and we both are very open about our depression and we were able to sit laughing over beers about our preferred methods for ending it because we seem to have both got the defence mechanism in place that it’s “not real” and effectively try and treat it as some sort of dream or similar where you are horrified whilst in it but then you can wake up and it’s not real.
This might be of absolutely no use as everyone is different but I hope it does - the lock down alone was incredibly difficult but we survived it so just think how strong that makes you.
Also I recommend hours of hard gardening - even offer to help someone or something if you don’t have a garden of any sort! Best medicine I have ever found.
Yes, physical exertion works. As does dancing or singing or any social exercise, if you can force yourself to do it
But of course nearly all these options were taken away during lockdown, esp the winter lockdown
Never Again.
One other effective therapy is sharing. Tell people that you feel miserable and shit and don’t be embarrassed about it. Let it out. PB is good for that!
You are angry about lockdowns but it's partly misplaced.
PB is not particularly good for that imho. It's a site populated by a lot of anonymous people, some of whom are extremely abusive. It's one of the last places I would come to lay bare my soul. Friends and family are much better, preferably face to face, and that's the thing which became so difficult during lockdowns.
You're wrong about physical exertion in lockdowns though. I did more than probably any time in my life. I decamped to a remote cliff top and hiked every day. It was astonishingly wonderful and, of course, there was no limit placed on people exercising if they had mental health issues.
The other great benefit of those hikes was proximity to nature: something which can lift the soul. As many of the great writers and poets have found, even in their darkest moments.
On that subject, reading great nature-based writers is recommended.
Well, yes, there was a limit placed on that sort of thing: during lockdown 1 the only places you were allowed to exercise were those you could reach from your front door. And the police came to issue you you with a ticket if you looked like you weren't exercising with sufficient grim-faced single-mindedness. I actually saw it happen. I saw people nervously doing star jumps when the police approached.
During lockdown 3 I remember being unsure if I was allowed to sit on a park bench with my 1 permitted friend during my 1 permitted walk. We decided it was probably illegal so we carried on walking. In the fucking sleet
My God, it was bad
Some of our Antipodean colleagues got it even worse. Police shaking coffee cups to ensure there was enough to justify your mask being down outdoors. Freaks. But they do have Dan Andrews and his sort running their States. Poor old commie Australia 🇦🇺
Political betting news. Since voting began in Australian election, the polling has been the worst yet for Labour. There’s clearly been a lot of swingback from midterm, or even more than mid term, just few months ago, in this election; the trend is not Labours friend, they don’t appear to have gained any momentum from the campaign. It might still be tight, but the smart bet now is no change of government?
Yes new Essential and Resolve polls have the Labor lead slashed on 2PP to just 51% to 49%, a deficit margin Howard's government in 1998 and Hawke's in 1990 got re elected with.
Resolve has the Coalition leading Labor now 34% to 31% on the primary vote too
Looking back lockdowns do seem like the Work of Satan. Designed to send people mad and sad - and to ruin economies
Were any of them necessary? Did we just copy China in a blind, crazy panic? i wonder if future generations will regard our behaviour with total bewilderment
We got taken in by those ridiculous Chinese videos of people dropping in the street and the non covid body bag pics from Italy and the world panicked and went full lemming We should have been protecting the vulnerable, and everyone else following their own precautions suited to them and their family
On reflection it maybe wasn’t China that sent us into panic, it was Italy. Lombardy in Lockdown
China is sufficiently distant and alien that you can say, and we did say, Well we are different and that won’t happen here. But then it happened in northern Italy and they are too close to us for “denial” to work
I suspect Lockdown 1 was unavoidable in some form. We did not know what we were facing so we had to be ultra cautious. After that they are increasingly hard to justify. 2 was absurd and 3 was downright evil.
And of course Labour led by the Integritron wanted Lockdowns 4 and 5 and it is Libertine Boris and JR Mogg that saved us
We were not ultra cautious. You're right that it wasn't China that prompted us. If it had been, we'd have acted sooner. We should have acted sooner. Parts of China locked down in January. By mid-February the evidence was clear that lockdowns were working well to stem the spread. What did we do for the next month?
We should have done some sort of lockdown much faster (something I said at the time) and severely curtailed international travel (something I did not say at the time but others did)
Yes we WERE ultra cautious. The fact you can get this wrong shows how the Overton Window of Psychosocial Sanity has been shifted by the Lockdowns towards the acceptance of lunacy
FFS at no other point in history have entire economies basically shuttered. The last time they closed all the pubs in England was when Cromwell did it, and he didn’t do it as thoroughly as Boris, Sturgeon and Drakeford. We were locked in our homes. Insane
If closing EVERYTHING and telling EVERYONE to stay home is not “ultra cautious” then God help us if you get into power and decide to err on the side of epidemiological pessimism
Ok, in that sense we were cautious, yes. But we should have done something sooner. So timewise, we did far too little, which is why I reacted against your "ultra cautious".
There are two elements at play here. WHAT we did and WHEN. I think what we did was a little on the draconian side, but the when was too slack.
The when can never be too late. Taking away liberties needs to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. If there is any doubt liberty must prevail.
Sadly that seems to have been forgotten by some.
You're right, except there was no doubt. By the time we locked down there was ample data that this disease was killing people in worrying numbers and that more than a month's worth of data from China that said lockdown were working to stop it. Those were the known facts at the time. The unknowns were many still, but it was clear what was growing in our midst and that there was at least one way to seriously hamper its progress.
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
Just shows, for all the hype about the CL, the league is truly the one.
Depends, I genuinely think winning a CL confirms that you're something special.
Political betting news. Since voting began in Australian election, the polling has been the worst yet for Labour. There’s clearly been a lot of swingback from midterm, or even more than mid term, just few months ago, in this election; the trend is not Labours friend, they don’t appear to have gained any momentum from the campaign. It might still be tight, but the smart bet now is no change of government?
As I have posted on here before Labor often flatter to deceive in Australia.
Don't write off Liberal/National coalition yet! So basically I am agreeing with you 👍
Political betting news. Since voting began in Australian election, the polling has been the worst yet for Labour. There’s clearly been a lot of swingback from midterm, or even more than mid term, just few months ago, in this election; the trend is not Labours friend, they don’t appear to have gained any momentum from the campaign. It might still be tight, but the smart bet now is no change of government?
As I have posted on here before Labor often flatter to deceive in Australia.
Don't write off Liberal/National coalition yet! So basically I am agreeing with you 👍
Albanese is an Australian Kinnock and Ed Miliband all in one
BREAKING: Tory whips confirm they've asked an MP to stay away from Parliament after he was arrested for alleged sexual assault, indecent assault & rape.
“The Chief Whip has asked that the MP concerned does not attend the Parliamentary Estate while an investigation is ongoing."
Sky reporting upto 50 mps are currently under investigation for sex and sexual assault allegations
It just makes you despair at the lack of integrity and decency by the political classes
The old adage about power bring an aphrodisiac really just means those in power abusing it to abuse others. Time that was ended once and for all. Be kind. Be good. And if you can't be kind and good, fuck off.
Hey Woolie, sorry to hear of your travails. So glad you are getting some attention
If it helps, I was down there in the darkness, with the black dog howling, during the worst of Covid - just like you. I split with my wife partly for Covid reasons (a painful split as we were still very close), then I had to face lockdown 3 - the winter one - all alone in a one bed flat in Camden when every single thing that usually keeps me sane - from friends to pubs to sun to restaurants to travel to art galleries and sex - was taken away from me. I felt actually suicidal a few times, and - weirder and somehow worse - later I behaved suicidally - eg driving at 140mph at noon for no reason
Crazy shit
I am very glad I did not do myself in. I am now in a much much happier place - I still have my mood swings but they are normal. I will always have them. What happened during Covid was an order of magnitude worse than the average bipolar blues
Anyway. Stick in there. And stay on PB. I found it an invaluable source of company at my loneliest moments….
Thank you Leon. The small flat, alone; where once youth and beauty shone, I get 100% I'm something of a physical and mental wretch now. Disabled with horrors ravaging the insides. Has been quite the culture shock as i used to think myself indestructible, immortal, unstoppable. But I'm not. Now I'm a young old man who plays chess and remembers when life was bar lights and pretty girls who now have fled further even than the time that separates us. But I'm Woolie. And I always will be. I've been strangling black dogs since i was 10. Fuck em. I've seen enough to laugh at the pompous, the famous, the pretenders and the cruel. Just a lad from working class stock who got given a brain and a grin and has rinsed the shit out of both.
I can only hope you feel better soon.
When I was a kid, I felt low - I guess we all do. "The world doesn't understand me" Adrian Mole-style pretentious crap. Having talked to people since, I realised that although I felt low, the black dog never stalked me. I've always been someone who is more 'up' than 'down'. Even when I got told I would never walk properly again, when I had a first operation only to find a friend had died - even through the bad times, it never stalked me.
But I have seen enough people 'down' to realise the black dog is real, and that I've been blooming lucky.
Oddly, I've never seen myself as indestructible, immortal or unstoppable. Quite the opposite. Yet depression has never really been a problem. Odd, really.
I think the indestructible, immortal stuff was a consequnece of the black dog. I had to think that or I'd not have made the morning sometimes (and the first time I don't there's no do over) . With his maw round my neck and his breath suffocating me. The delusion came at a price. Too much, too often, too hard etc. But now I can't pretend I'm immortal I at least know I can, I have, and I will beat the dog. However long it takes or how often I have to.
If it’s any help, I’m someone else who fights the black dog, I have always in the depths of an episode constantly told myself “it’s not real - it’s a chemical/biological process in the brain - a sort of “fake brain news” and by reminding myself constantly it keeps a sense of balance and proportion.
Funnily enough recently I was having a conversation with a great friend who is a very senior medic and we both are very open about our depression and we were able to sit laughing over beers about our preferred methods for ending it because we seem to have both got the defence mechanism in place that it’s “not real” and effectively try and treat it as some sort of dream or similar where you are horrified whilst in it but then you can wake up and it’s not real.
This might be of absolutely no use as everyone is different but I hope it does - the lock down alone was incredibly difficult but we survived it so just think how strong that makes you.
Also I recommend hours of hard gardening - even offer to help someone or something if you don’t have a garden of any sort! Best medicine I have ever found.
Yes, physical exertion works. As does dancing or singing or any social exercise, if you can force yourself to do it
But of course nearly all these options were taken away during lockdown, esp the winter lockdown
Never Again.
One other effective therapy is sharing. Tell people that you feel miserable and shit and don’t be embarrassed about it. Let it out. PB is good for that!
You are angry about lockdowns but it's partly misplaced.
PB is not particularly good for that imho. It's a site populated by a lot of anonymous people, some of whom are extremely abusive. It's one of the last places I would come to lay bare my soul. Friends and family are much better, preferably face to face, and that's the thing which became so difficult during lockdowns.
You're wrong about physical exertion in lockdowns though. I did more than probably any time in my life. I decamped to a remote cliff top and hiked every day. It was astonishingly wonderful and, of course, there was no limit placed on people exercising if they had mental health issues.
The other great benefit of those hikes was proximity to nature: something which can lift the soul. As many of the great writers and poets have found, even in their darkest moments.
On that subject, reading great nature-based writers is recommended.
Well, yes, there was a limit placed on that sort of thing: during lockdown 1 the only places you were allowed to exercise were those you could reach from your front door. And the police came to issue you you with a ticket if you looked like you weren't exercising with sufficient grim-faced single-mindedness. I actually saw it happen. I saw people nervously doing star jumps when the police approached.
During lockdown 3 I remember being unsure if I was allowed to sit on a park bench with my 1 permitted friend during my 1 permitted walk. We decided it was probably illegal so we carried on walking. In the fucking sleet
My God, it was bad
Some of our Antipodean colleagues got it even worse. Police shaking coffee cups to ensure there was enough to justify your mask being down outdoors. Freaks. But they do have Dan Andrews and his sort running their States. Poor old commie Australia 🇦🇺
We all did it. And its an insanely good thing that so many are very happy to go along with the greater good.
(Was it the greater good? Who knows and I really don't care)
Political betting news. Since voting began in Australian election, the polling has been the worst yet for Labour. There’s clearly been a lot of swingback from midterm, or even more than mid term, just few months ago, in this election; the trend is not Labours friend, they don’t appear to have gained any momentum from the campaign. It might still be tight, but the smart bet now is no change of government?
Yes new Essential and Resolve polls have the Labor lead slashed on 2PP to just 51% to 49%, a deficit margin Howard's government in 1998 and Hawke's in 1990 got re elected with.
Resolve has the Coalition leading Labor now 34% to 31% on the primary vote too
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
No domestic success for Newcastle since 1955 (if we exclude the Texaco cup which everyone does) No top league since the 1920s But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
Political betting news. Since voting began in Australian election, the polling has been the worst yet for Labour. There’s clearly been a lot of swingback from midterm, or even more than mid term, just few months ago, in this election; the trend is not Labours friend, they don’t appear to have gained any momentum from the campaign. It might still be tight, but the smart bet now is no change of government?
Yes new Essential and Resolve polls have the Labor lead slashed on 2PP to just 51% to 49%, a deficit margin Howard's government in 1998 and Hawke's in 1990 got re elected with.
Resolve has the Coalition leading Labor now 34% to 31% on the primary vote too
Political betting post. Since locals clear uptick in Lib Dem polling, greens solid too, this coming mostly at Labour expense and the gap between the two main parties as smaller, though no obvious bounce in the Tory share whilst Lab Lib Green combined seems on the higher end of scale from each pollster.
HOWEVER. Within this trend of smaller Labour leads because of explained locals bounce, we are due monthly Kantor, tick tock, that never gives Labour much lead the best of times, there could be long shot betting opportunity to bet on the first Tory lead in a long while?
Looking back lockdowns do seem like the Work of Satan. Designed to send people mad and sad - and to ruin economies
Were any of them necessary? Did we just copy China in a blind, crazy panic? i wonder if future generations will regard our behaviour with total bewilderment
We got taken in by those ridiculous Chinese videos of people dropping in the street and the non covid body bag pics from Italy and the world panicked and went full lemming We should have been protecting the vulnerable, and everyone else following their own precautions suited to them and their family
On reflection it maybe wasn’t China that sent us into panic, it was Italy. Lombardy in Lockdown
China is sufficiently distant and alien that you can say, and we did say, Well we are different and that won’t happen here. But then it happened in northern Italy and they are too close to us for “denial” to work
I suspect Lockdown 1 was unavoidable in some form. We did not know what we were facing so we had to be ultra cautious. After that they are increasingly hard to justify. 2 was absurd and 3 was downright evil.
And of course Labour led by the Integritron wanted Lockdowns 4 and 5 and it is Libertine Boris and JR Mogg that saved us
We were not ultra cautious. You're right that it wasn't China that prompted us. If it had been, we'd have acted sooner. We should have acted sooner. Parts of China locked down in January. By mid-February the evidence was clear that lockdowns were working well to stem the spread. What did we do for the next month?
We should have done some sort of lockdown much faster (something I said at the time) and severely curtailed international travel (something I did not say at the time but others did)
Yes we WERE ultra cautious. The fact you can get this wrong shows how the Overton Window of Psychosocial Sanity has been shifted by the Lockdowns towards the acceptance of lunacy
FFS at no other point in history have entire economies basically shuttered. The last time they closed all the pubs in England was when Cromwell did it, and he didn’t do it as thoroughly as Boris, Sturgeon and Drakeford. We were locked in our homes. Insane
If closing EVERYTHING and telling EVERYONE to stay home is not “ultra cautious” then God help us if you get into power and decide to err on the side of epidemiological pessimism
Ok, in that sense we were cautious, yes. But we should have done something sooner. So timewise, we did far too little, which is why I reacted against your "ultra cautious".
There are two elements at play here. WHAT we did and WHEN. I think what we did was a little on the draconian side, but the when was too slack.
The when can never be too late. Taking away liberties needs to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. If there is any doubt liberty must prevail.
Sadly that seems to have been forgotten by some.
You're right, except there was no doubt. By the time we locked down there was ample data that this disease was killing people in worrying numbers and that more than a month's worth of data from China that said lockdown were working to stop it. Those were the known facts at the time. The unknowns were many still, but it was clear what was growing in our midst and that there was at least one way to seriously hamper its progress.
Diseases kill.
That's not enough to say lockdown.
I think the circumstances were serious enough and to warrant severe action, but implementation of said action can still have been far from ideal. Blunt measures to begin with as a matter of urgency and caution made sense I think, but there was definitely a period where any suggestion of a less blunt approach at the first indication of difficulty would have been politically very difficult, even though the situation had changed significantly (for instance with vaccines), to the point what turned out to be sensible choices were against the public mood at the time, like the summer opening.
Political betting post. Since locals clear uptick in Lib Dem polling, greens solid too, this coming mostly at Labour expense and the gap between the two main parties as smaller, though no obvious bounce in the Tory share whilst Lab Lib Green combined seems on the higher end of scale from each pollster.
HOWEVER. Within this trend of smaller Labour leads because of explained locals bounce, we are due monthly Kantor, tick tock, that never gives Labour much lead the best of times, there could be long shot betting opportunity to bet on the first Tory lewd in a long while?
I fancy that will come from either one of YouGovs wobbles or a Teche Friday poll
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
Just shows, for all the hype about the CL, the league is truly the one.
In a way, Liverpool (and Real Madrid for that matter) have had it good both ways. The European Cup was tricky to get into when they were really good, but much easier to get into when they haven't been dominant domestically.
Looking back lockdowns do seem like the Work of Satan. Designed to send people mad and sad - and to ruin economies
Were any of them necessary? Did we just copy China in a blind, crazy panic? i wonder if future generations will regard our behaviour with total bewilderment
We got taken in by those ridiculous Chinese videos of people dropping in the street and the non covid body bag pics from Italy and the world panicked and went full lemming We should have been protecting the vulnerable, and everyone else following their own precautions suited to them and their family
On reflection it maybe wasn’t China that sent us into panic, it was Italy. Lombardy in Lockdown
China is sufficiently distant and alien that you can say, and we did say, Well we are different and that won’t happen here. But then it happened in northern Italy and they are too close to us for “denial” to work
I suspect Lockdown 1 was unavoidable in some form. We did not know what we were facing so we had to be ultra cautious. After that they are increasingly hard to justify. 2 was absurd and 3 was downright evil.
And of course Labour led by the Integritron wanted Lockdowns 4 and 5 and it is Libertine Boris and JR Mogg that saved us
We were not ultra cautious. You're right that it wasn't China that prompted us. If it had been, we'd have acted sooner. We should have acted sooner. Parts of China locked down in January. By mid-February the evidence was clear that lockdowns were working well to stem the spread. What did we do for the next month?
We should have done some sort of lockdown much faster (something I said at the time) and severely curtailed international travel (something I did not say at the time but others did)
Yes we WERE ultra cautious. The fact you can get this wrong shows how the Overton Window of Psychosocial Sanity has been shifted by the Lockdowns towards the acceptance of lunacy
FFS at no other point in history have entire economies basically shuttered. The last time they closed all the pubs in England was when Cromwell did it, and he didn’t do it as thoroughly as Boris, Sturgeon and Drakeford. We were locked in our homes. Insane
If closing EVERYTHING and telling EVERYONE to stay home is not “ultra cautious” then God help us if you get into power and decide to err on the side of epidemiological pessimism
Ok, in that sense we were cautious, yes. But we should have done something sooner. So timewise, we did far too little, which is why I reacted against your "ultra cautious".
There are two elements at play here. WHAT we did and WHEN. I think what we did was a little on the draconian side, but the when was too slack.
The when can never be too late. Taking away liberties needs to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. If there is any doubt liberty must prevail.
Sadly that seems to have been forgotten by some.
You're right, except there was no doubt. By the time we locked down there was ample data that this disease was killing people in worrying numbers and that more than a month's worth of data from China that said lockdown were working to stop it. Those were the known facts at the time. The unknowns were many still, but it was clear what was growing in our midst and that there was at least one way to seriously hamper its progress.
Diseases kill.
That's not enough to say lockdown.
No, it isn't, and luckily I wasn't making anywhere like such a general point. We've had other deadly pandemics, including in my lifetime, that certainly didn't require lockdowns.
Indeed so how can you say it was ever proven beyond all reasonable doubt that this did?
Political betting post. Since locals clear uptick in Lib Dem polling, greens solid too, this coming mostly at Labour expense and the gap between the two main parties as smaller, though no obvious bounce in the Tory share whilst Lab Lib Green combined seems on the higher end of scale from each pollster.
HOWEVER. Within this trend of smaller Labour leads because of explained locals bounce, we are due monthly Kantor, tick tock, that never gives Labour much lead the best of times, there could be long shot betting opportunity to bet on the first Tory lead in a long while?
That is certainly on the horizon for when a disgraced Starmer has to resign in lockdown-busting shame in a week or two, whilst Johnson doesn't have to.
Looking back lockdowns do seem like the Work of Satan. Designed to send people mad and sad - and to ruin economies
Were any of them necessary? Did we just copy China in a blind, crazy panic? i wonder if future generations will regard our behaviour with total bewilderment
We got taken in by those ridiculous Chinese videos of people dropping in the street and the non covid body bag pics from Italy and the world panicked and went full lemming We should have been protecting the vulnerable, and everyone else following their own precautions suited to them and their family
On reflection it maybe wasn’t China that sent us into panic, it was Italy. Lombardy in Lockdown
China is sufficiently distant and alien that you can say, and we did say, Well we are different and that won’t happen here. But then it happened in northern Italy and they are too close to us for “denial” to work
I suspect Lockdown 1 was unavoidable in some form. We did not know what we were facing so we had to be ultra cautious. After that they are increasingly hard to justify. 2 was absurd and 3 was downright evil.
And of course Labour led by the Integritron wanted Lockdowns 4 and 5 and it is Libertine Boris and JR Mogg that saved us
We were not ultra cautious. You're right that it wasn't China that prompted us. If it had been, we'd have acted sooner. We should have acted sooner. Parts of China locked down in January. By mid-February the evidence was clear that lockdowns were working well to stem the spread. What did we do for the next month?
We should have done some sort of lockdown much faster (something I said at the time) and severely curtailed international travel (something I did not say at the time but others did)
Yes we WERE ultra cautious. The fact you can get this wrong shows how the Overton Window of Psychosocial Sanity has been shifted by the Lockdowns towards the acceptance of lunacy
FFS at no other point in history have entire economies basically shuttered. The last time they closed all the pubs in England was when Cromwell did it, and he didn’t do it as thoroughly as Boris, Sturgeon and Drakeford. We were locked in our homes. Insane
If closing EVERYTHING and telling EVERYONE to stay home is not “ultra cautious” then God help us if you get into power and decide to err on the side of epidemiological pessimism
Ok, in that sense we were cautious, yes. But we should have done something sooner. So timewise, we did far too little, which is why I reacted against your "ultra cautious".
There are two elements at play here. WHAT we did and WHEN. I think what we did was a little on the draconian side, but the when was too slack.
The when can never be too late. Taking away liberties needs to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. If there is any doubt liberty must prevail.
Sadly that seems to have been forgotten by some.
You're right, except there was no doubt. By the time we locked down there was ample data that this disease was killing people in worrying numbers and that more than a month's worth of data from China that said lockdown were working to stop it. Those were the known facts at the time. The unknowns were many still, but it was clear what was growing in our midst and that there was at least one way to seriously hamper its progress.
Diseases kill.
That's not enough to say lockdown.
No, it isn't, and luckily I wasn't making anywhere like such a general point. We've had other deadly pandemics, including in my lifetime, that certainly didn't require lockdowns.
Unfortunately, the numbers were different this time.
Wave 1 got us to about 10% immunity by infection at a cost of about 50k deaths.
Had the UK let nature take its course, that would have been about 350k deaths over the spring and early summer of 2020. Because nobody worked out how you could lock away the elderly for 3 months whilst everyone else took their turn in front of the Russian Roulette gun.
And may the Lord have mercy on any hypothetical government that tried that path only for variants and vaccines to roll up a few months later.
There is a rollicking cosy dystopia to be written about a government forced into that situation. How would you actually manage it? What would you do if you turned out to be an international outlier? How would the final chapter go (Prime Minister, there appears to be a variant that allows reinfection...)? Far too early to write it, natch, but it will be a damn good read when the time comes.
Political betting news. Since voting began in Australian election, the polling has been the worst yet for Labour. There’s clearly been a lot of swingback from midterm, or even more than mid term, just few months ago, in this election; the trend is not Labours friend, they don’t appear to have gained any momentum from the campaign. It might still be tight, but the smart bet now is no change of government?
As I have posted on here before Labor often flatter to deceive in Australia.
Don't write off Liberal/National coalition yet! So basically I am agreeing with you 👍
Albanese is an Australian Kinnock and Ed Miliband all in one
Or Starmer in other words you mean.
But it looks like the more Charismatic and Aggressive right wing politician, miles behind on polls and ratings for nearly all the parliament, has swung back to beat another weak opponent and win again.
Let’s hope not setting a trend. 🙁
Looking at everything a couple of months back, I was so sure there was no way back 🙁
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
No domestic success for Newcastle since 1955 (if we exclude the Texaco cup which everyone does) No top league since the 1920s But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
They've won division 2 a few times. More than most teams have done.
Honestly, you big club fans. You're like my in-laws. They're Spurs fans, and appear to sincerely believe that supporting Spurs is a unique burden, rather than winning more than virtually anyone else bar roughly 5 clubs, which, as the sixth richest club in the land, is pretty much bang on where you'd expect them to be.
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
No domestic success for Newcastle since 1955 (if we exclude the Texaco cup which everyone does) No top league since the 1920s But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
They've won division 2 a few times. More than most teams have done.
Honestly, you big club fans. You're like my in-laws. They're Spurs fans, and appear to sincerely believe that supporting Spurs is a unique burden, rather than winning more than virtually anyone else bar roughly 5 clubs, which, as the sixth richest club in the land, is pretty much bang on where you'd expect them to be.
I'm Leeds. We aren't big. We've also won div 2, it doesn't count. It's like a participation certificate
Looking back lockdowns do seem like the Work of Satan. Designed to send people mad and sad - and to ruin economies
Were any of them necessary? Did we just copy China in a blind, crazy panic? i wonder if future generations will regard our behaviour with total bewilderment
We got taken in by those ridiculous Chinese videos of people dropping in the street and the non covid body bag pics from Italy and the world panicked and went full lemming We should have been protecting the vulnerable, and everyone else following their own precautions suited to them and their family
On reflection it maybe wasn’t China that sent us into panic, it was Italy. Lombardy in Lockdown
China is sufficiently distant and alien that you can say, and we did say, Well we are different and that won’t happen here. But then it happened in northern Italy and they are too close to us for “denial” to work
I suspect Lockdown 1 was unavoidable in some form. We did not know what we were facing so we had to be ultra cautious. After that they are increasingly hard to justify. 2 was absurd and 3 was downright evil.
And of course Labour led by the Integritron wanted Lockdowns 4 and 5 and it is Libertine Boris and JR Mogg that saved us
We were not ultra cautious. You're right that it wasn't China that prompted us. If it had been, we'd have acted sooner. We should have acted sooner. Parts of China locked down in January. By mid-February the evidence was clear that lockdowns were working well to stem the spread. What did we do for the next month?
We should have done some sort of lockdown much faster (something I said at the time) and severely curtailed international travel (something I did not say at the time but others did)
Yes we WERE ultra cautious. The fact you can get this wrong shows how the Overton Window of Psychosocial Sanity has been shifted by the Lockdowns towards the acceptance of lunacy
FFS at no other point in history have entire economies basically shuttered. The last time they closed all the pubs in England was when Cromwell did it, and he didn’t do it as thoroughly as Boris, Sturgeon and Drakeford. We were locked in our homes. Insane
If closing EVERYTHING and telling EVERYONE to stay home is not “ultra cautious” then God help us if you get into power and decide to err on the side of epidemiological pessimism
Ok, in that sense we were cautious, yes. But we should have done something sooner. So timewise, we did far too little, which is why I reacted against your "ultra cautious".
There are two elements at play here. WHAT we did and WHEN. I think what we did was a little on the draconian side, but the when was too slack.
The when can never be too late. Taking away liberties needs to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. If there is any doubt liberty must prevail.
Sadly that seems to have been forgotten by some.
You're right, except there was no doubt. By the time we locked down there was ample data that this disease was killing people in worrying numbers and that more than a month's worth of data from China that said lockdown were working to stop it. Those were the known facts at the time. The unknowns were many still, but it was clear what was growing in our midst and that there was at least one way to seriously hamper its progress.
Diseases kill.
That's not enough to say lockdown.
No, it isn't, and luckily I wasn't making anywhere like such a general point. We've had other deadly pandemics, including in my lifetime, that certainly didn't require lockdowns.
Unfortunately, the numbers were different this time.
Wave 1 got us to about 10% immunity by infection at a cost of about 50k deaths.
Had the UK let nature take its course, that would have been about 350k deaths over the spring and early summer of 2020. Because nobody worked out how you could lock away the elderly for 3 months whilst everyone else took their turn in front of the Russian Roulette gun.
And may the Lord have mercy on any hypothetical government that tried that path only for variants and vaccines to roll up a few months later.
There is a rollicking cosy dystopia to be written about a government forced into that situation. How would you actually manage it? What would you do if you turned out to be an international outlier? How would the final chapter go (Prime Minister, there appears to be a variant that allows reinfection...)? Far too early to write it, natch, but it will be a damn good read when the time comes.
I totally Disagree,
1) wave one might have got us to 50K 'total' deaths as you put it but that was deaths with and depths form COVID the excess deaths was much lower.
2) wave one got us to the opposite of where she should have been, there was lots of infection and death in Care homes, because people who still had the viruses where discarded from hospital back to there care home, but only a small proportion of the young and heathy population. therefor even if 70% of the population did get it, it would not have been 7 times the number of deaths.
The government made a lot of mistakes, care homes and not encouraging old people to protect themselves as best they could, where the first and most impotent, because they the fallers there led to the first lockdown and from that the need for a second and probably third.
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
No domestic success for Newcastle since 1955 (if we exclude the Texaco cup which everyone does) No top league since the 1920s But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
They've won division 2 a few times. More than most teams have done.
Honestly, you big club fans. You're like my in-laws. They're Spurs fans, and appear to sincerely believe that supporting Spurs is a unique burden, rather than winning more than virtually anyone else bar roughly 5 clubs, which, as the sixth richest club in the land, is pretty much bang on where you'd expect them to be.
Spurs 6th richest? The Toon says Haddaway and Shite
Worth nothing the Coalition in Australia has been at been at the high end for quite some time. They had equal seats with Labour in 2010 even though they didn't end up in power
It's amusing that the chap in charge when they won big in 2013 only lasted 2 years as PM. As is the oft noted fact that since Howard they've had 5 PMs in 15 years, with none making it to 4 years in office.
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
No domestic success for Newcastle since 1955 (if we exclude the Texaco cup which everyone does) No top league since the 1920s But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
They've won division 2 a few times. More than most teams have done.
Honestly, you big club fans. You're like my in-laws. They're Spurs fans, and appear to sincerely believe that supporting Spurs is a unique burden, rather than winning more than virtually anyone else bar roughly 5 clubs, which, as the sixth richest club in the land, is pretty much bang on where you'd expect them to be.
Spurs 6th richest? The Toon says Haddaway and Shite
By turnover Spurs are 5th biggest club in the country.
Looking back lockdowns do seem like the Work of Satan. Designed to send people mad and sad - and to ruin economies
Were any of them necessary? Did we just copy China in a blind, crazy panic? i wonder if future generations will regard our behaviour with total bewilderment
We got taken in by those ridiculous Chinese videos of people dropping in the street and the non covid body bag pics from Italy and the world panicked and went full lemming We should have been protecting the vulnerable, and everyone else following their own precautions suited to them and their family
On reflection it maybe wasn’t China that sent us into panic, it was Italy. Lombardy in Lockdown
China is sufficiently distant and alien that you can say, and we did say, Well we are different and that won’t happen here. But then it happened in northern Italy and they are too close to us for “denial” to work
I suspect Lockdown 1 was unavoidable in some form. We did not know what we were facing so we had to be ultra cautious. After that they are increasingly hard to justify. 2 was absurd and 3 was downright evil.
And of course Labour led by the Integritron wanted Lockdowns 4 and 5 and it is Libertine Boris and JR Mogg that saved us
We were not ultra cautious. You're right that it wasn't China that prompted us. If it had been, we'd have acted sooner. We should have acted sooner. Parts of China locked down in January. By mid-February the evidence was clear that lockdowns were working well to stem the spread. What did we do for the next month?
We should have done some sort of lockdown much faster (something I said at the time) and severely curtailed international travel (something I did not say at the time but others did)
Yes we WERE ultra cautious. The fact you can get this wrong shows how the Overton Window of Psychosocial Sanity has been shifted by the Lockdowns towards the acceptance of lunacy
FFS at no other point in history have entire economies basically shuttered. The last time they closed all the pubs in England was when Cromwell did it, and he didn’t do it as thoroughly as Boris, Sturgeon and Drakeford. We were locked in our homes. Insane
If closing EVERYTHING and telling EVERYONE to stay home is not “ultra cautious” then God help us if you get into power and decide to err on the side of epidemiological pessimism
Ok, in that sense we were cautious, yes. But we should have done something sooner. So timewise, we did far too little, which is why I reacted against your "ultra cautious".
There are two elements at play here. WHAT we did and WHEN. I think what we did was a little on the draconian side, but the when was too slack.
The when can never be too late. Taking away liberties needs to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. If there is any doubt liberty must prevail.
Sadly that seems to have been forgotten by some.
You're right, except there was no doubt. By the time we locked down there was ample data that this disease was killing people in worrying numbers and that more than a month's worth of data from China that said lockdown were working to stop it. Those were the known facts at the time. The unknowns were many still, but it was clear what was growing in our midst and that there was at least one way to seriously hamper its progress.
Diseases kill.
That's not enough to say lockdown.
No, it isn't, and luckily I wasn't making anywhere like such a general point. We've had other deadly pandemics, including in my lifetime, that certainly didn't require lockdowns.
Unfortunately, the numbers were different this time.
Wave 1 got us to about 10% immunity by infection at a cost of about 50k deaths.
Had the UK let nature take its course, that would have been about 350k deaths over the spring and early summer of 2020. Because nobody worked out how you could lock away the elderly for 3 months whilst everyone else took their turn in front of the Russian Roulette gun.
And may the Lord have mercy on any hypothetical government that tried that path only for variants and vaccines to roll up a few months later.
There is a rollicking cosy dystopia to be written about a government forced into that situation. How would you actually manage it? What would you do if you turned out to be an international outlier? How would the final chapter go (Prime Minister, there appears to be a variant that allows reinfection...)? Far too early to write it, natch, but it will be a damn good read when the time comes.
I totally Disagree,
1) wave one might have got us to 50K 'total' deaths as you put it but that was deaths with and depths form COVID the excess deaths was much lower.
2) wave one got us to the opposite of where she should have been, there was lots of infection and death in Care homes, because people who still had the viruses where discarded from hospital back to there care home, but only a small proportion of the young and heathy population. therefor even if 70% of the population did get it, it would not have been 7 times the number of deaths.
The government made a lot of mistakes, care homes and not encouraging old people to protect themselves as best they could, where the first and most impotent, because they the fallers there led to the first lockdown and from that the need for a second and probably third.
'Deaths with' would have been greatly increased because of covid making many diseases much worse, the mortality from general anaesthesia much higher, and so on.
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
No domestic success for Newcastle since 1955 (if we exclude the Texaco cup which everyone does) No top league since the 1920s But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
They've won division 2 a few times. More than most teams have done.
Honestly, you big club fans. You're like my in-laws. They're Spurs fans, and appear to sincerely believe that supporting Spurs is a unique burden, rather than winning more than virtually anyone else bar roughly 5 clubs, which, as the sixth richest club in the land, is pretty much bang on where you'd expect them to be.
I'm Leeds. We aren't big. We've also won div 2, it doesn't count. It's like a participation certificate
Didn't Leeds win the league in the 70s, and again in the 90s? Don't they get gates of 30,000 plus? Being the only team in one of the biggest cities in the country? Leeds is a big club. If winning a league apart from the top one doesn't count, almost every team has never won anything. Saying Leeds isn't a big club is like saying Great Britain is a small island. Granted there are bigger, but there are thousands of smaller.
Political betting news. Since voting began in Australian election, the polling has been the worst yet for Labour. There’s clearly been a lot of swingback from midterm, or even more than mid term, just few months ago, in this election; the trend is not Labours friend, they don’t appear to have gained any momentum from the campaign. It might still be tight, but the smart bet now is no change of government?
As I have posted on here before Labor often flatter to deceive in Australia.
Don't write off Liberal/National coalition yet! So basically I am agreeing with you 👍
Albanese is an Australian Kinnock and Ed Miliband all in one
Or Starmer in other words you mean.
But it looks like the more Charismatic and Aggressive right wing politician, miles behind on polls and ratings for nearly all the parliament, has swung back to beat another weak opponent and win again.
Let’s hope not setting a trend. 🙁
Looking at everything a couple of months back, I was so sure there was no way back 🙁
Correct me if I'm wrong but due to Australia's electoral system, close to 100% of Green votes will flow to Labor (or elect Greens themselves). Plus this time, there are a bunch of independents who are an anti-Coalition force? So the question is really who is gaining from Labor's decline?
Looking back lockdowns do seem like the Work of Satan. Designed to send people mad and sad - and to ruin economies
Were any of them necessary? Did we just copy China in a blind, crazy panic? i wonder if future generations will regard our behaviour with total bewilderment
We got taken in by those ridiculous Chinese videos of people dropping in the street and the non covid body bag pics from Italy and the world panicked and went full lemming We should have been protecting the vulnerable, and everyone else following their own precautions suited to them and their family
On reflection it maybe wasn’t China that sent us into panic, it was Italy. Lombardy in Lockdown
China is sufficiently distant and alien that you can say, and we did say, Well we are different and that won’t happen here. But then it happened in northern Italy and they are too close to us for “denial” to work
I suspect Lockdown 1 was unavoidable in some form. We did not know what we were facing so we had to be ultra cautious. After that they are increasingly hard to justify. 2 was absurd and 3 was downright evil.
And of course Labour led by the Integritron wanted Lockdowns 4 and 5 and it is Libertine Boris and JR Mogg that saved us
We were not ultra cautious. You're right that it wasn't China that prompted us. If it had been, we'd have acted sooner. We should have acted sooner. Parts of China locked down in January. By mid-February the evidence was clear that lockdowns were working well to stem the spread. What did we do for the next month?
We should have done some sort of lockdown much faster (something I said at the time) and severely curtailed international travel (something I did not say at the time but others did)
Yes we WERE ultra cautious. The fact you can get this wrong shows how the Overton Window of Psychosocial Sanity has been shifted by the Lockdowns towards the acceptance of lunacy
FFS at no other point in history have entire economies basically shuttered. The last time they closed all the pubs in England was when Cromwell did it, and he didn’t do it as thoroughly as Boris, Sturgeon and Drakeford. We were locked in our homes. Insane
If closing EVERYTHING and telling EVERYONE to stay home is not “ultra cautious” then God help us if you get into power and decide to err on the side of epidemiological pessimism
Ok, in that sense we were cautious, yes. But we should have done something sooner. So timewise, we did far too little, which is why I reacted against your "ultra cautious".
There are two elements at play here. WHAT we did and WHEN. I think what we did was a little on the draconian side, but the when was too slack.
The when can never be too late. Taking away liberties needs to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. If there is any doubt liberty must prevail.
Sadly that seems to have been forgotten by some.
You're right, except there was no doubt. By the time we locked down there was ample data that this disease was killing people in worrying numbers and that more than a month's worth of data from China that said lockdown were working to stop it. Those were the known facts at the time. The unknowns were many still, but it was clear what was growing in our midst and that there was at least one way to seriously hamper its progress.
Diseases kill.
That's not enough to say lockdown.
No, it isn't, and luckily I wasn't making anywhere like such a general point. We've had other deadly pandemics, including in my lifetime, that certainly didn't require lockdowns.
Indeed so how can you say it was ever proven beyond all reasonable doubt that this did?
Let alone sooner than it was done?
Because the nature of this disease. It's not like HIV/AIDS where a lockdown would have been plainly mad. This one spreads and kills through the air, by proximity. By mid-February 2020 the evidence was very clear that people mixing far less was a way of curtailing the spread. And at the time, it was probably the only way to seriously reduce the excess deaths that would result. And it did.
Not enough to justify taking away fundamental liberties.
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
No domestic success for Newcastle since 1955 (if we exclude the Texaco cup which everyone does) No top league since the 1920s But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
They've won division 2 a few times. More than most teams have done.
Honestly, you big club fans. You're like my in-laws. They're Spurs fans, and appear to sincerely believe that supporting Spurs is a unique burden, rather than winning more than virtually anyone else bar roughly 5 clubs, which, as the sixth richest club in the land, is pretty much bang on where you'd expect them to be.
You've never heard the terms Spursy?
60 years without a title, only one trophy this millenium, Spurs are Spursy.
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
No domestic success for Newcastle since 1955 (if we exclude the Texaco cup which everyone does) No top league since the 1920s But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
They've won division 2 a few times. More than most teams have done.
Honestly, you big club fans. You're like my in-laws. They're Spurs fans, and appear to sincerely believe that supporting Spurs is a unique burden, rather than winning more than virtually anyone else bar roughly 5 clubs, which, as the sixth richest club in the land, is pretty much bang on where you'd expect them to be.
I'm Leeds. We aren't big. We've also won div 2, it doesn't count. It's like a participation certificate
I used to support Leeds. Brought me some joy and much grief as a lad
They’ve had it tough. Yet the potential is enormous. They are probably the most unsuccessful club that nonetheless has the singular support of an entire large English city. I’m surprised some minor oligarch hasn’t bought them
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
No domestic success for Newcastle since 1955 (if we exclude the Texaco cup which everyone does) No top league since the 1920s But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
They've won division 2 a few times. More than most teams have done.
Honestly, you big club fans. You're like my in-laws. They're Spurs fans, and appear to sincerely believe that supporting Spurs is a unique burden, rather than winning more than virtually anyone else bar roughly 5 clubs, which, as the sixth richest club in the land, is pretty much bang on where you'd expect them to be.
Spurs 6th richest? The Toon says Haddaway and Shite
Sadly Forbes does indeed put the smallest club in London at number 6 Spurs who famously win the cup when there's a batman symbol in the year
Political betting news. Since voting began in Australian election, the polling has been the worst yet for Labour. There’s clearly been a lot of swingback from midterm, or even more than mid term, just few months ago, in this election; the trend is not Labours friend, they don’t appear to have gained any momentum from the campaign. It might still be tight, but the smart bet now is no change of government?
As I have posted on here before Labor often flatter to deceive in Australia.
Don't write off Liberal/National coalition yet! So basically I am agreeing with you 👍
Albanese is an Australian Kinnock and Ed Miliband all in one
Or Starmer in other words you mean.
But it looks like the more Charismatic and Aggressive right wing politician, miles behind on polls and ratings for nearly all the parliament, has swung back to beat another weak opponent and win again.
Let’s hope not setting a trend. 🙁
Looking at everything a couple of months back, I was so sure there was no way back 🙁
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
No domestic success for Newcastle since 1955 (if we exclude the Texaco cup which everyone does) No top league since the 1920s But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
They've won division 2 a few times. More than most teams have done.
Honestly, you big club fans. You're like my in-laws. They're Spurs fans, and appear to sincerely believe that supporting Spurs is a unique burden, rather than winning more than virtually anyone else bar roughly 5 clubs, which, as the sixth richest club in the land, is pretty much bang on where you'd expect them to be.
Spurs 6th richest? The Toon says Haddaway and Shite
By turnover Spurs are 5th biggest club in the country.
10th in the world overall.
Newcastle nowhere to be seen.
But the financial muscle behind Newcastle is now enormous. Dwarfing virtually every other team on the planet, except maybe PSG?
The Saudi fund that owns them is worth £320 billion
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
No domestic success for Newcastle since 1955 (if we exclude the Texaco cup which everyone does) No top league since the 1920s But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
They've won division 2 a few times. More than most teams have done.
Honestly, you big club fans. You're like my in-laws. They're Spurs fans, and appear to sincerely believe that supporting Spurs is a unique burden, rather than winning more than virtually anyone else bar roughly 5 clubs, which, as the sixth richest club in the land, is pretty much bang on where you'd expect them to be.
I'm Leeds. We aren't big. We've also won div 2, it doesn't count. It's like a participation certificate
I used to support Leeds. Brought me some joy and much grief as a lad
They’ve had it tough. Yet the potential is enormous. They are probably the most unsuccessful club that nonetheless has the singular support of an entire large English city. I’m surprised some minor oligarch hasn’t bought them
Radrizzani is a very minor oligarch! But we also have investment from the owners of the 49ers. They'll probably spend a bit if we stay up
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
No domestic success for Newcastle since 1955 (if we exclude the Texaco cup which everyone does) No top league since the 1920s But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
They've won division 2 a few times. More than most teams have done.
Honestly, you big club fans. You're like my in-laws. They're Spurs fans, and appear to sincerely believe that supporting Spurs is a unique burden, rather than winning more than virtually anyone else bar roughly 5 clubs, which, as the sixth richest club in the land, is pretty much bang on where you'd expect them to be.
Spurs 6th richest? The Toon says Haddaway and Shite
By turnover Spurs are 5th biggest club in the country.
10th in the world overall.
Newcastle nowhere to be seen.
But the financial muscle behind Newcastle is now enormous. Dwarfing virtually every other team on the planet, except maybe PSG?
The Saudi fund that owns them is worth £320 billion
Financial fair play, they cannot do a Citeh.
Remember the PL have taken pre-emptive action against Newcastle.
Premier League clubs vote to block Newcastle sponsorship deals at emergency meeting
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
No domestic success for Newcastle since 1955 (if we exclude the Texaco cup which everyone does) No top league since the 1920s But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
They've won division 2 a few times. More than most teams have done.
Honestly, you big club fans. You're like my in-laws. They're Spurs fans, and appear to sincerely believe that supporting Spurs is a unique burden, rather than winning more than virtually anyone else bar roughly 5 clubs, which, as the sixth richest club in the land, is pretty much bang on where you'd expect them to be.
Spurs 6th richest? The Toon says Haddaway and Shite
By turnover Spurs are 5th biggest club in the country.
10th in the world overall.
Newcastle nowhere to be seen.
But the financial muscle behind Newcastle is now enormous. Dwarfing virtually every other team on the planet, except maybe PSG?
The Saudi fund that owns them is worth £320 billion
The known unknown is how much they will actually spend. Saying £320bn is one thing, but they won't spend it all on the Toon.
And, of course, that was before they owned Newcastle.
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
No domestic success for Newcastle since 1955 (if we exclude the Texaco cup which everyone does) No top league since the 1920s But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
They've won division 2 a few times. More than most teams have done.
Honestly, you big club fans. You're like my in-laws. They're Spurs fans, and appear to sincerely believe that supporting Spurs is a unique burden, rather than winning more than virtually anyone else bar roughly 5 clubs, which, as the sixth richest club in the land, is pretty much bang on where you'd expect them to be.
I'm Leeds. We aren't big. We've also won div 2, it doesn't count. It's like a participation certificate
Didn't Leeds win the league in the 70s, and again in the 90s? Don't they get gates of 30,000 plus? Being the only team in one of the biggest cities in the country? Leeds is a big club. If winning a league apart from the top one doesn't count, almost every team has never won anything. Saying Leeds isn't a big club is like saying Great Britain is a small island. Granted there are bigger, but there are thousands of smaller.
Newcsatle are a bigger club. We won the league in 69, 74 and 92 (the last div 1 title) Cup in 72 League Cup 68 Leeds and Newcastle are both tbf mid range clubs with periods of big history
Political betting post. Since locals clear uptick in Lib Dem polling, greens solid too, this coming mostly at Labour expense and the gap between the two main parties as smaller, though no obvious bounce in the Tory share whilst Lab Lib Green combined seems on the higher end of scale from each pollster.
HOWEVER. Within this trend of smaller Labour leads because of explained locals bounce, we are due monthly Kantor, tick tock, that never gives Labour much lead the best of times, there could be long shot betting opportunity to bet on the first Tory lead in a long while?
That is certainly on the horizon for when a disgraced Starmer has to resign in lockdown-busting shame in a week or two, whilst Johnson doesn't have to.
No I don’t think so. The Kantor only comes out once a month and is due now, not in a few weeks.
Starmer resigning without trying to hang on might boost Labour a bit, or at very least put pressure on Boris and Tory ratings, so that may not throw up the Tory lead you predict.
When the new Labour leader appointed they sure to get a bounce and honeymoon, even if they then turn out to be a dud and start going backwards against the Tories. However, the period between Starmer’s resignation and Nandy or Streetings (based on current betting) crowning, period they effectively don’t have proper leader, could see the Tories build up a poll lead again.
What would Labour actually do without Starmer and Rayner overnight. Due to nature of their going (lawmaker lawbreakers) and promise to go, they couldn’t remotely hang on till successor found - Labour would have to turn to a grandee as mind the shop leader? Like Harriet Harman, Dianne Abbott, Margaret Beckett.
Or I think Ed Milliband, who has worn the captains armband before, but won’t be standing for leadership. Ed v Boris might be funky enough to prevent a Tory lead at least until new leader honeymoon is over.
How analytical and fair about Labour is this post and prospects of next Tory lead?
Having seen Liverpool's line up tonight and the bench, laying Liverpool a lot tonight.
**Buffs nails**
and weeps.
My sympathy. Just two trophies already, with. European Cup Final to come. Try being a Swindon fan for a year.
Indeed, my friends who support other teams said what really annoyed was that them was during the 30 year title drought Liverpool were portrayed as some success starved team, in those thirty years Liverpool won 4 league cups, 3 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, and the Champions League twice.
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
No domestic success for Newcastle since 1955 (if we exclude the Texaco cup which everyone does) No top league since the 1920s But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
They've won division 2 a few times. More than most teams have done.
Honestly, you big club fans. You're like my in-laws. They're Spurs fans, and appear to sincerely believe that supporting Spurs is a unique burden, rather than winning more than virtually anyone else bar roughly 5 clubs, which, as the sixth richest club in the land, is pretty much bang on where you'd expect them to be.
You've never heard the terms Spursy?
60 years without a title, only one trophy this millenium, Spurs are Spursy.
As a Stockport fan, it's very difficult to have any sympathy at all for any of this.
Comments
Try being a Newcastle or a Forest fan.
Resolve has the Coalition leading Labor now 34% to 31% on the primary vote too
https://twitter.com/vanOnselenP/status/1526535528405155840?t=9aupegrFVJc-XIIMMu-Htg&s=19
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/race-tightens-poll-shows-coalition-lifting-support-and-labor-dropping-20220517-p5am44.html
That's not enough to say lockdown.
I know Pep and the owners would love a CL.
It is great being European Royalty.
Don't write off Liberal/National coalition yet! So basically I am agreeing with you 👍
(Was it the greater good? Who knows and I really don't care)
No top league since the 1920s
But they do have the Intertoto in 2006. Glory.
His promise to allow the young to use superannuation funds for a house deposit has also gone down well
Since locals clear uptick in Lib Dem polling, greens solid too, this coming mostly at Labour expense and the gap between the two main parties as smaller, though no obvious bounce in the Tory share whilst Lab Lib Green combined seems on the higher end of scale from each pollster.
HOWEVER. Within this trend of smaller Labour leads because of explained locals bounce, we are due monthly Kantor, tick tock, that never gives Labour much lead the best of times, there could be long shot betting opportunity to bet on the first Tory lead in a long while?
Let alone sooner than it was done?
Wave 1 got us to about 10% immunity by infection at a cost of about 50k deaths.
Had the UK let nature take its course, that would have been about 350k deaths over the spring and early summer of 2020. Because nobody worked out how you could lock away the elderly for 3 months whilst everyone else took their turn in front of the Russian Roulette gun.
And may the Lord have mercy on any hypothetical government that tried that path only for variants and vaccines to roll up a few months later.
There is a rollicking cosy dystopia to be written about a government forced into that situation. How would you actually manage it? What would you do if you turned out to be an international outlier? How would the final chapter go (Prime Minister, there appears to be a variant that allows reinfection...)? Far too early to write it, natch, but it will be a damn good read when the time comes.
But it looks like the more Charismatic and Aggressive right wing politician, miles behind on polls and ratings for nearly all the parliament, has swung back to beat another weak opponent and win again.
Let’s hope not setting a trend. 🙁
Looking at everything a couple of months back, I was so sure there was no way back 🙁
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2022_Australian_federal_election
Honestly, you big club fans. You're like my in-laws. They're Spurs fans, and appear to sincerely believe that supporting Spurs is a unique burden, rather than winning more than virtually anyone else bar roughly 5 clubs, which, as the sixth richest club in the land, is pretty much bang on where you'd expect them to be.
1) wave one might have got us to 50K 'total' deaths as you put it but that was deaths with and depths form COVID the excess deaths was much lower.
2) wave one got us to the opposite of where she should have been, there was lots of infection and death in Care homes, because people who still had the viruses where discarded from hospital back to there care home, but only a small proportion of the young and heathy population. therefor even if 70% of the population did get it, it would not have been 7 times the number of deaths.
The government made a lot of mistakes, care homes and not encouraging old people to protect themselves as best they could, where the first and most impotent, because they the fallers there led to the first lockdown and from that the need for a second and probably third.
It's amusing that the chap in charge when they won big in 2013 only lasted 2 years as PM. As is the oft noted fact that since Howard they've had 5 PMs in 15 years, with none making it to 4 years in office.
Sometimes it’s good to step away from politics.
10th in the world overall.
Newcastle nowhere to be seen.
If winning a league apart from the top one doesn't count, almost every team has never won anything.
Saying Leeds isn't a big club is like saying Great Britain is a small island. Granted there are bigger, but there are thousands of smaller.
60 years without a title, only one trophy this millenium, Spurs are Spursy.
They’ve had it tough. Yet the potential is enormous. They are probably the most unsuccessful club that nonetheless has the singular support of an entire large English city. I’m surprised some minor oligarch hasn’t bought them
Spurs who famously win the cup when there's a batman symbol in the year
So election 2019 in Australia would be more apt for him.
Though Starmer does at least lead Boris on preferred PM now, neither Shorten nor Albanese have led Morrison on that measure
The Saudi fund that owns them is worth £320 billion
But we also have investment from the owners of the 49ers. They'll probably spend a bit if we stay up
Remember the PL have taken pre-emptive action against Newcastle.
Premier League clubs vote to block Newcastle sponsorship deals at emergency meeting
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/oct/18/premier-league-clubs-vote-to-block-newcastle-sponsorship-deals-at-emergency-meeting
Which they lifted but it'll be difficult for the barcodes to agree a 300 million quid sponsorship deal with Saudi airlines.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league-amanda-staveley-newcastle-magpies-sports-direct-b1975819.html
We won the league in 69, 74 and 92 (the last div 1 title)
Cup in 72
League Cup 68
Leeds and Newcastle are both tbf mid range clubs with periods of big history
Starmer resigning without trying to hang on might boost Labour a bit, or at very least put pressure on Boris and Tory ratings, so that may not throw up the Tory lead you predict.
When the new Labour leader appointed they sure to get a bounce and honeymoon, even if they then turn out to be a dud and start going backwards against the Tories. However, the period between Starmer’s resignation and Nandy or Streetings (based on current betting) crowning, period they effectively don’t have proper leader, could see the Tories build up a poll lead again.
What would Labour actually do without Starmer and Rayner overnight. Due to nature of their going (lawmaker lawbreakers) and promise to go, they couldn’t remotely hang on till successor found - Labour would have to turn to a grandee as mind the shop leader? Like Harriet Harman, Dianne Abbott, Margaret Beckett.
Or I think Ed Milliband, who has worn the captains armband before, but won’t be standing for leadership. Ed v Boris might be funky enough to prevent a Tory lead at least until new leader honeymoon is over.
How analytical and fair about Labour is this post and prospects of next Tory lead?