The Barnet Bypass: Can the Tories hold on again? – politicalbetting.com
The Barnet Bypass: Can the Tories hold on again? – politicalbetting.com
It’s hard to believe these days, but London used to be a swing city politically. Labour tended to have an edge, but the Tories were frequently hot on their heels. The ‘popular vote’ across local elections in the city was frequently within a couple of percentage points, such as the 1990, 2002, and 2006 elections. In 2006 the Tories even swept control of half a dozen councils off Labour and governed 14 of the city’s 32 boroughs (Labour controlled 7, the rest were Lib Dem or No Overall Control).
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This period also saw a certain Tory politician get elected Mayor of London a couple of times.
Never heard of him.
Quincel sets out a decent case. If Barnet was felt to hold out against tide at least in part for reasons which no longer apply so directly, then it seems a fair bet they can manage it.0 -
London is trending one way: Labour.0
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Suspect Labour has come off the peak in London.
So results will be disappointing.0 -
My thinking is that the Tories will eek it out with a bare majority like in 2014 although boundary changes do favour Labour particularly in wards such as West Hendon which was a shock loss last time.
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It’s great. Just a shame they’re so uselesstheelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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If you bypass Barnet you run the risk of being encircled in Brent...
I know that national politics is the most important factor when it comes to the overall tides in local election results, but it does seem strange to have a discussion of whether control of the council might change without even a cursory discussion of how well the council is currently being run.0 -
Anyone know why London elects three councillors per ward every four years rather than one in 3 years out of four like much of the rest of the country?
Unlike here. Where we elect only one councillor per ward every four years. Well, for 65 of them. The 66th elects two.
But of course it does.
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Tangentially, your regular reminder that 2 of the 5 MPs ahead of Corbyn in order of seniority are not standing at the next election (Sheerman and Harman). Only Bottomly, Edward Leigh (no, me neither) and Nick Brown stand between him and being Father of the House.HYUFD said:Dame Margaret Beckett stepping down as an MP after 39 years
https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1507472072498638852?s=20&t=-Hug2yOPavhFmfZ8RlhSeg
Well, and not being able to stand as a Labour candidate perhaps, but we'll see.
Didn't realise Beckett has actually served 44 years, having been in parliament 74-19 too.
You'd think so, but it didn't stop Barbados, so where there's a will there's a way.Carnyx said:
Waiting for London Bridge?kle4 said:As noted previously wikipedia tells us Jamaica in particular has talked about becoming a republic for a long time, decades infact, with it being an explicit promise of various PMs across the political divide, with popular support it seems, for at least the last 15 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism_in_Jamaica
So when it comes to Jamaica specifically and the Caribbean more generally, it is not so much that the writing is on the wall as its a surprise the wall was still standing after all this time anyway. None of the links on that page at least seem to explain why they've not found the time, given the level of political support there seems to be.1 -
Boris Johnson is of mixed race as well. The usual reminder that his grandfather was Turkish.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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Given 2/3 of the Barnet constituencies are in the top 50 Labour target seats ie Chipping Barnet and Hendon, if Labour do not win Barnet Council in May then Starmer can forget about being PM.
As London was already Labour's strongest UK region even in 2019 it is not surprising it has seen less swung there since the last general election than the North. Nonetheless, Labour must win the marginal seats the Tories hold in the capital still to form a government0 -
You think we'd do better to have a government of white men?theelephant said:
Lol you have made my point....CorrectHorseBattery said:
It’s great. Just a shame they’re so uselesstheelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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Most of the country only elects district or unitary councillors one year out of 4 in all out elections, not just London boroughsdixiedean said:Anyone know why London elects three councillors per ward every four years rather than one in 3 years out of four like much of the rest of the country?
Unlike here. Where we elect only one councillor per ward every four years. Well, for 65 of them. The 66th elects two.
But of course it does.0 -
Depends what people are proponing about it I suppose. It is a diverse government, way more than someone just trying to make token appointments, but I don't know why anyone would think diversity in itself would lead to quality, incompetence knows no ethnicity or gender after all.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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It's part of a long-term strategy to encourage adoption of STV, by virtue of producing absurd outcomes with elections for multiple councillors in single FPTP wards. Surely that has to be one of the most absurd electoral systems?dixiedean said:Anyone know why London elects three councillors per ward every four years rather than one in 3 years out of four like much of the rest of the country?
Unlike here. Where we elect only one councillor per ward every four years. Well, for 65 of them. The 66th elects two.
But of course it does.
Albeit, it's a quiet long-term strategy.0 -
Which is, what, that you are some kind of sexist/racist creep who thinks that is impossible to think of patel as an odious POS because she is a member of the weaker sex, and coffee coloured?theelephant said:
Lol you have made my point....CorrectHorseBattery said:
It’s great. Just a shame they’re so uselesstheelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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Yes. But the other Metropolitan Boroughs don't. Which are more comparable with London Boroughs than Epping or Northumberland.HYUFD said:
Most of the country only elects district or unitary councillors one year out of 4 in all out elections, not just London boroughsdixiedean said:Anyone know why London elects three councillors per ward every four years rather than one in 3 years out of four like much of the rest of the country?
Unlike here. Where we elect only one councillor per ward every four years. Well, for 65 of them. The 66th elects two.
But of course it does.
I was just wondering if there was a good reason that anyone knew of for that?0 -
It's that "content of their character" business again, isn't it?Benpointer said:
You think we'd do better to have a government of white men?theelephant said:
Lol you have made my point....CorrectHorseBattery said:
It’s great. Just a shame they’re so uselesstheelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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A nonsensical claim. Who is not "of mixed race" by that sort of standard?ydoethur said:
Boris Johnson is of mixed race as well. The usual reminder that his grandfather was Turkish.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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Username fail...theelephant said:
Of course I'd forgotten thatydoethur said:
Boris Johnson is of mixed race as well. The usual reminder that his grandfather was Turkish.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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And thank heaven's for that. I'm not sure what the proportions are though, the list of councils this year electing by thirds is pretty high. Some are even electing by halfs, the maniacs. dixiedean might be right, but I've never seen the overall figuresHYUFD said:
Most of the country only elects district or unitary councillors one year out of 4 in all out elections, not just London boroughsdixiedean said:Anyone know why London elects three councillors per ward every four years rather than one in 3 years out of four like much of the rest of the country?
Unlike here. Where we elect only one councillor per ward every four years. Well, for 65 of them. The 66th elects two.
But of course it does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_Kingdom_local_elections
As to 65 wards being 1 cllr and 1 ward having 2, you can blame the LGBCE for that sort of thing - it makes drawing boundaries easier for them to create wards of acceptable variance, and I've seen councils with a mixture of 1,2 and 3. I did wonder if they have been given new guidance on that, as I was stunned that Buckinghamshire Council, the new unitary, not only had well over 100 seats (which is not well liked by them and is rare) but 49 wards each with 3 cllrs.0 -
Farringdon Without obviously isn't a great area for Labour. In yesterday's election there were 11 candidates standing for the ten seats, ten independents and one Labour candidate. The candidate who wasn't elected was the Labour one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_City_of_London_Corporation_election#Farringdon_Without1 -
This is no longer the case with a weird mixture of 2 cllr and 3 cllr wards in various London boroughs such as this one, Wandsworth and others.dixiedean said:
Yes. But the other Metropolitan Boroughs don't. Which are more comparable with London Boroughs than Epping or Northumberland.HYUFD said:
Most of the country only elects district or unitary councillors one year out of 4 in all out elections, not just London boroughsdixiedean said:Anyone know why London elects three councillors per ward every four years rather than one in 3 years out of four like much of the rest of the country?
Unlike here. Where we elect only one councillor per ward every four years. Well, for 65 of them. The 66th elects two.
But of course it does.
I was just wondering if there was a good reason that anyone knew of for that?0 -
It's a common occurence that where you get a properly organised localist party it will sweep up the seats.Andy_JS said:Farringdon Without obviously isn't a great area for Labour. In yesterday's election there were 11 candidates standing for the ten seats, ten independents and one Labour candidate. The candidate who wasn't elected was the Labour one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_City_of_London_Corporation_election#Farringdon_Without0 -
More than you might think, but looking at places where you can claim citizenship based on grandparent lineage it's not treated nonsensically universally, even though if he were to call himself Turkish it would be silly. If he were still american he would definitely call himself of English-Turkish heritage.IshmaelZ said:
A nonsensical claim. Who is not "of mixed race" by that sort of standard?ydoethur said:
Boris Johnson is of mixed race as well. The usual reminder that his grandfather was Turkish.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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I think you attach more importance to peoples' "descent" than most of us do.theelephant said:
I just think having 2 people of South Asian descent in the big offices of state smarks of tokenism when one is priti patelBenpointer said:
You think we'd do better to have a government of white men?theelephant said:
Lol you have made my point....CorrectHorseBattery said:
It’s great. Just a shame they’re so uselesstheelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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Whaaaaaaaaaat rubbish!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Some of the pictures were embarrassing and shameful and really did the royal family no favoursIshmaelZ said:Behind the smiles and glamour the discontent over the Cambridges’ Caribbean tour was unmissable
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2022/03/25/cambridges-caribbean-tour-triumph-monarchy-relic-past/
telegraph having another pop
I think the writing is on the wall. By the time they succeed dear old Katie is going to look like the desiccated mummy of Cruella de Ville, baldy is going to turn into fat Old Baldy, and the more they mishandle the whole piccaninny thang, the more shutting out (the admittedly ghastly) Meghan is going to look like a terrible mistake.
I have long been of the opinion that once HMQ goes so most countries will separate from the monarchy
It is becoming an anachronism
Anachronism? Why compare it to spiders?
Who are we as a people, as a nation? What direction do we want to go? Sure there comes a time when the most fundamental questions need to be addressed, no matter how challenging. Where One needs ones heart to follow an idea, it is the monarchy that is already bringing us together. Holding us together. A monarchy to unite Our colours, Our Faiths, our principles. Before us now is our future, a wider road upon which we seek one another in our aloneness, and we walk the road when we have no hearth to sit beside. Where we will live upon one another according to the law, ancient and timeless, and thus live together in loving kindness. A path To cross the divides of neighbourhoods. A way shared by all Cultures and religion.
Our monarchy is that opening, an opportunity To Walk rough shod over the divide between us, as nations, and as people’s.
When you are Venturing forth together into unknown territory. You cannot be an adventurer without an unknown to explore. Each and every one of us venturing now into a new landscape, we can only be guided by our hearts, our love, our faith. The monarchy let’s all hearts join with ours, it’s never been more relevant.1 -
Although a surprising number of women seem to find him an albeit temporary delight.kle4 said:
More than you might think, but looking at places where you can claim citizenship based on grandparent lineage it's not treated nonsensically universally, even though if he were to call himself Turkish it would be silly. If he were still american he would definitely call himself of English-Turkish heritage.IshmaelZ said:
A nonsensical claim. Who is not "of mixed race" by that sort of standard?ydoethur said:
Boris Johnson is of mixed race as well. The usual reminder that his grandfather was Turkish.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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Fucking hell, what is this lefty meme meant to be about? Is the claim that MLK didn't say it (he did) or that it is in any sense controversial (it isn't) or that it rules out stuff like positive discrimination as a route to getting to where he wanted to end up (it doesn't)?dixiedean said:
It's that "content of their character" business again, isn't it?Benpointer said:
You think we'd do better to have a government of white men?theelephant said:
Lol you have made my point....CorrectHorseBattery said:
It’s great. Just a shame they’re so uselesstheelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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There's an election timetable on Gov.uk (pdf) though it's dated 2019, so I don't know how it has been affected by skipping the elections in 2020. No explanation.kle4 said:
And thank heaven's for that. I'm not sure what the proportions are though, the list of councils this year electing by thirds is pretty high. Some are even electing by halfs, the maniacs. dixiedean might be right, but I've never seen the overall figuresHYUFD said:
Most of the country only elects district or unitary councillors one year out of 4 in all out elections, not just London boroughsdixiedean said:Anyone know why London elects three councillors per ward every four years rather than one in 3 years out of four like much of the rest of the country?
Unle here. Where we elect only one councillor per ward every four years. Well, for 65 of them. The 66th elects two.
But of course it does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_Kingdom_local_elections
As to 65 wards being 1 cllr and 1 ward having 2, you can blame the LGBCE for that sort of thing - it makes drawing boundaries easier for them to create wards of acceptable variance, and I've seen councils with a mixture of 1,2 and 3. I did wonder if they have been given new guidance on that, as I was stunned that Buckinghamshire Council, the new unitary, not only had well over 100 seats (which is not well liked by them and is rare) but 49 wards each with 3 cllrs.
My impression is that electing in thirds was the standard where the wards had multiple members (because electing one person at a time makes most sense for FPTP elections), which was normally the case for densely populated metropolitan councils, while the County Councils normally had one councillor per area, and so would be whole elections. But this has gradually been complicated over the years. Perhaps running all-out elections has been seen as a cost-cutting measure, or a way to create more stable council administration, and has been adopted in an adhoc manner by individual councils when such arguments have won favour.0 -
Re Bucks. The Tory membership needs sinecures to aspire to.kle4 said:
And thank heaven's for that. I'm not sure what the proportions are though, the list of councils this year electing by thirds is pretty high. Some are even electing by halfs, the maniacs. dixiedean might be right, but I've never seen the overall figuresHYUFD said:
Most of the country only elects district or unitary councillors one year out of 4 in all out elections, not just London boroughsdixiedean said:Anyone know why London elects three councillors per ward every four years rather than one in 3 years out of four like much of the rest of the country?
Unlike here. Where we elect only one councillor per ward every four years. Well, for 65 of them. The 66th elects two.
But of course it does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_Kingdom_local_elections
As to 65 wards being 1 cllr and 1 ward having 2, you can blame the LGBCE for that sort of thing - it makes drawing boundaries easier for them to create wards of acceptable variance, and I've seen councils with a mixture of 1,2 and 3. I did wonder if they have been given new guidance on that, as I was stunned that Buckinghamshire Council, the new unitary, not only had well over 100 seats (which is not well liked by them and is rare) but 49 wards each with 3 cllrs.
The entirety of local government is a hotch-potch mess.1 -
I reckon I’m Wiltshire back to the Stone Age, certainly as far as it’s been traced. Makes me proud, kindakle4 said:
More than you might think, but looking at places where you can claim citizenship based on grandparent lineage it's not treated nonsensically universally, even though if he were to call himself Turkish it would be silly. If he were still american he would definitely call himself of English-Turkish heritage.IshmaelZ said:
A nonsensical claim. Who is not "of mixed race" by that sort of standard?ydoethur said:
Boris Johnson is of mixed race as well. The usual reminder that his grandfather was Turkish.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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Allie Hodgkins-Brown
@AllieHBNews
Saturday’s Daily MAIL: “Raab: Free Speech To Get Legal Supremacy” #TomorrowsPapersToday0 -
UK to get a 1st amendment?0
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No, moron, but I genuinely don't give a fuck in either direction about her "Asian descent," and failure to be white, and certainly not enough to introduce it out of the blue as an off-topic topic at the beginning of a thread. You do. Why?theelephant said:
So you think priti Patel is worthy of her office then...IshmaelZ said:
I think you attach more importance to peoples' "descent" than most of us do.theelephant said:
I just think having 2 people of South Asian descent in the big offices of state smarks of tokenism when one is priti patelBenpointer said:
You think we'd do better to have a government of white men?theelephant said:
Lol you have made my point....CorrectHorseBattery said:
It’s great. Just a shame they’re so uselesstheelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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I've seen the argument most recently that there is concern rightwingers, particularly in america but not only there, use that MLK line as an attempt to suggest that there are no problems and therefore nothing needs to be done in relation to any matters of race. And if someone is using it that way that's wrong. But the other objection was that that line was an aspiration, not that it had been achieved, which I don't think counters some of those using it the way they think it does - since one argument is that a hyperfocus on race and privilege suggests it is not an aspiration we should aim for at all.IshmaelZ said:
Fucking hell, what is this lefty meme meant to be about? Is the claim that MLK didn't say it (he did) or that it is in any sense controversial (it isn't) or that it rules out stuff like positive discrimination as a route to getting to where he wanted to end up (it doesn't)?dixiedean said:
It's that "content of their character" business again, isn't it?Benpointer said:
You think we'd do better to have a government of white men?theelephant said:
Lol you have made my point....CorrectHorseBattery said:
It’s great. Just a shame they’re so uselesstheelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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Alnwick elects 2 to keep Alnwick together. But Prudhoe is divided into 2. Berwick and Hexham to three.kle4 said:
And thank heaven's for that. I'm not sure what the proportions are though, the list of councils this year electing by thirds is pretty high. Some are even electing by halfs, the maniacs. dixiedean might be right, but I've never seen the overall figuresHYUFD said:
Most of the country only elects district or unitary councillors one year out of 4 in all out elections, not just London boroughsdixiedean said:Anyone know why London elects three councillors per ward every four years rather than one in 3 years out of four like much of the rest of the country?
Unlike here. Where we elect only one councillor per ward every four years. Well, for 65 of them. The 66th elects two.
But of course it does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_Kingdom_local_elections
As to 65 wards being 1 cllr and 1 ward having 2, you can blame the LGBCE for that sort of thing - it makes drawing boundaries easier for them to create wards of acceptable variance, and I've seen councils with a mixture of 1,2 and 3. I did wonder if they have been given new guidance on that, as I was stunned that Buckinghamshire Council, the new unitary, not only had well over 100 seats (which is not well liked by them and is rare) but 49 wards each with 3 cllrs.
Ponteland has its tiny centre quartered into four wards. Each one having a huge hinterland of villages many, many miles from Ponteland.0 -
There you have the advantage of me, I'm a first generation moonraker.turbotubbs said:
I reckon I’m Wiltshire back to the Stone Age, certainly as far as it’s been traced. Makes me proud, kindakle4 said:
More than you might think, but looking at places where you can claim citizenship based on grandparent lineage it's not treated nonsensically universally, even though if he were to call himself Turkish it would be silly. If he were still american he would definitely call himself of English-Turkish heritage.IshmaelZ said:
A nonsensical claim. Who is not "of mixed race" by that sort of standard?ydoethur said:
Boris Johnson is of mixed race as well. The usual reminder that his grandfather was Turkish.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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I quite like a hotch-potch mess, if things have developed for idiosyncratic reasons, provided that people are mostly happy with them, and they largely work. But it's not just the elections to local government that are a mess. Revenue-raising is a mess. Accountability is a mess, partly because local journalism is mostly dead, but mostly because central government has made most of the decisions and restricted the funding so much that there's no leeway to be accountable for anything much else.dixiedean said:
Re Bucks. The Tory membership needs sinecures to aspire to.kle4 said:
And thank heaven's for that. I'm not sure what the proportions are though, the list of councils this year electing by thirds is pretty high. Some are even electing by halfs, the maniacs. dixiedean might be right, but I've never seen the overall figuresHYUFD said:
Most of the country only elects district or unitary councillors one year out of 4 in all out elections, not just London boroughsdixiedean said:Anyone know why London elects three councillors per ward every four years rather than one in 3 years out of four like much of the rest of the country?
Unlike here. Where we elect only one councillor per ward every four years. Well, for 65 of them. The 66th elects two.
But of course it does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_Kingdom_local_elections
As to 65 wards being 1 cllr and 1 ward having 2, you can blame the LGBCE for that sort of thing - it makes drawing boundaries easier for them to create wards of acceptable variance, and I've seen councils with a mixture of 1,2 and 3. I did wonder if they have been given new guidance on that, as I was stunned that Buckinghamshire Council, the new unitary, not only had well over 100 seats (which is not well liked by them and is rare) but 49 wards each with 3 cllrs.
The entirety of local government is a hotch-potch mess.
Local government seems to exist largely to act as a scapegoat for decisions made in Westminster.2 -
Ohhhh!
Newsnight have heard that Treasury officials urged Sunak to do something on UC to cope with cost of living.
He overruled them.
Massive, if true.
Sunak is a lay.0 -
Would need something to amend first, surely?rottenborough said:UK to get a 1st amendment?
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So what does them being four useless fuckwits prove?theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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On topic. Nice piece Pip.
But I’m betting for Labour to fail to gain Barnet on my understanding of politics, the main reason they lost last time isn’t the sort of thing to melt in the face of a “New Management” sign, especially when so called “new” management was right beside old management on the last campaign trail.
People need to survive in an uncertain world.
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White men hold no monopoly on incompetence.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
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I thought that ward was mainly lawyers as it includes both Middle and Inner Temple?kle4 said:
It's a common occurence that where you get a properly organised localist party it will sweep up the seats.Andy_JS said:Farringdon Without obviously isn't a great area for Labour. In yesterday's election there were 11 candidates standing for the ten seats, ten independents and one Labour candidate. The candidate who wasn't elected was the Labour one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_City_of_London_Corporation_election#Farringdon_Without0 -
Calm down my friend.IshmaelZ said:
Fucking hell, what is this lefty meme meant to be about? Is the claim that MLK didn't say it (he did) or that it is in any sense controversial (it isn't) or that it rules out stuff like positive discrimination as a route to getting to where he wanted to end up (it doesn't)?dixiedean said:
It's that "content of their character" business again, isn't it?Benpointer said:
You think we'd do better to have a government of white men?theelephant said:
Lol you have made my point....CorrectHorseBattery said:
It’s great. Just a shame they’re so uselesstheelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
It was merely to point that it is good to have folk from different backgrounds. Providing they are honest and halfway competent.
I believe you take the same view.
Nothing more.
It would also. be nice if fewer went to Eton.0 -
It certainly is, but that number of councillors will not help with the sinecures. Sure, they'll get a basic allowance, but there's only so many committee chairs' allowances (or in rare cases deputy chairs) to go around, and so with such a large council you actually increase the number of cllrs who get nothing on top of the basic allowance (and like many councils they do not allow more than one special responsibility allowance) and you have nothing to reward them with.dixiedean said:
Re Bucks. The Tory membership needs sinecures to aspire to.kle4 said:
And thank heaven's for that. I'm not sure what the proportions are though, the list of councils this year electing by thirds is pretty high. Some are even electing by halfs, the maniacs. dixiedean might be right, but I've never seen the overall figuresHYUFD said:
Most of the country only elects district or unitary councillors one year out of 4 in all out elections, not just London boroughsdixiedean said:Anyone know why London elects three councillors per ward every four years rather than one in 3 years out of four like much of the rest of the country?
Unlike here. Where we elect only one councillor per ward every four years. Well, for 65 of them. The 66th elects two.
But of course it does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_Kingdom_local_elections
As to 65 wards being 1 cllr and 1 ward having 2, you can blame the LGBCE for that sort of thing - it makes drawing boundaries easier for them to create wards of acceptable variance, and I've seen councils with a mixture of 1,2 and 3. I did wonder if they have been given new guidance on that, as I was stunned that Buckinghamshire Council, the new unitary, not only had well over 100 seats (which is not well liked by them and is rare) but 49 wards each with 3 cllrs.
The entirety of local government is a hotch-potch mess.0 -
Though you can get banged up for an annoying protest.rottenborough said:
Allie Hodgkins-Brown
@AllieHBNews
Saturday’s Daily MAIL: “Raab: Free Speech To Get Legal Supremacy” #TomorrowsPapersToday
"You have the right to free speech as long as you are not dumb enough to actually try it."2 -
Damn incomer. I’m amazed anyone even talks to you...kle4 said:
There you have the advantage of me, I'm a first generation moonraker.turbotubbs said:
I reckon I’m Wiltshire back to the Stone Age, certainly as far as it’s been traced. Makes me proud, kindakle4 said:
More than you might think, but looking at places where you can claim citizenship based on grandparent lineage it's not treated nonsensically universally, even though if he were to call himself Turkish it would be silly. If he were still american he would definitely call himself of English-Turkish heritage.IshmaelZ said:
A nonsensical claim. Who is not "of mixed race" by that sort of standard?ydoethur said:
Boris Johnson is of mixed race as well. The usual reminder that his grandfather was Turkish.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
It’s a bit weird really. In the village I grew up in, where my folks moved when I was 5, we turned out to be related to half the families. Dads family more Trowbridge, mum more east Wiltshire, including sadly many uncles who didn’t make it through the war.
It does give me a sense of belonging though, which not everyone has.0 -
I'm not sure that "politician overrules civil servants" is that big a story.rottenborough said:Ohhhh!
Newsnight have heard that Treasury officials urged Sunak to do something on UC to cope with cost of living.
He overruled them.
Massive, if true.
Sunak is a lay.
If it was a matter of Coffey urging him to do so, or other Cabinet Minsters, then it would be more consequential.0 -
Something will need to be done, so it seems mad not to have done it on Wednesday.rottenborough said:Ohhhh!
Newsnight have heard that Treasury officials urged Sunak to do something on UC to cope with cost of living.
He overruled them.
Massive, if true.
Sunak is a lay.1 -
Writing as an advocate of diversity, I'd argue that the 3 great offices of state do not demonstrate diversity at all. They have more in common than their diverse backgrounds. Namely, they're all rubbish at their jobs. And you can throw in the PM for good measure.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
0 -
Midlands the oppositeCorrectHorseBattery said:London is trending one way: Labour.
1 -
Stone Age = 1,333 generations back, and if you can trace yourself 13 generations back then A. you are v posh and B. still only 1% of the way there. If you have exactly 5 digits per extremity, odds are against your being purebred over all that time.turbotubbs said:
I reckon I’m Wiltshire back to the Stone Age, certainly as far as it’s been traced. Makes me proud, kindakle4 said:
More than you might think, but looking at places where you can claim citizenship based on grandparent lineage it's not treated nonsensically universally, even though if he were to call himself Turkish it would be silly. If he were still american he would definitely call himself of English-Turkish heritage.IshmaelZ said:
A nonsensical claim. Who is not "of mixed race" by that sort of standard?ydoethur said:
Boris Johnson is of mixed race as well. The usual reminder that his grandfather was Turkish.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
0 -
Gavin Williamson. Boris Johnson. Michael Green. Some fella who doored a cyclist as Transport Secretary, who was so useless I've deliberately forgotten their name, if not the complexion of their skin. Dominic "Dover" Raab.theelephant said:
Would someone of priti patels competence have got to be home secretary if they were a white man...IshmaelZ said:
No, moron, but I genuinely don't give a fuck in either direction about her "Asian descent," and failure to be white, and certainly not enough to introduce it out of the blue as an off-topic topic at the beginning of a thread. You do. Why?theelephant said:
So you think priti Patel is worthy of her office then...IshmaelZ said:
I think you attach more importance to peoples' "descent" than most of us do.theelephant said:
I just think having 2 people of South Asian descent in the big offices of state smarks of tokenism when one is priti patelBenpointer said:
You think we'd do better to have a government of white men?theelephant said:
Lol you have made my point....CorrectHorseBattery said:
It’s great. Just a shame they’re so uselesstheelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
0 -
It must be a white elephant?IshmaelZ said:
No, moron, but I genuinely don't give a fuck in either direction about her "Asian descent," and failure to be white, and certainly not enough to introduce it out of the blue as an off-topic topic at the beginning of a thread. You do. Why?theelephant said:
So you think priti Patel is worthy of her office then...IshmaelZ said:
I think you attach more importance to peoples' "descent" than most of us do.theelephant said:
I just think having 2 people of South Asian descent in the big offices of state smarks of tokenism when one is priti patelBenpointer said:
You think we'd do better to have a government of white men?theelephant said:
Lol you have made my point....CorrectHorseBattery said:
It’s great. Just a shame they’re so uselesstheelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
I’m very drunk. And I think I’ve caught a cold.0 -
Would you mind so much, if they had?theelephant said:
Would someone of priti patels competence have got to be home secretary if they were a white man...IshmaelZ said:
No, moron, but I genuinely don't give a fuck in either direction about her "Asian descent," and failure to be white, and certainly not enough to introduce it out of the blue as an off-topic topic at the beginning of a thread. You do. Why?theelephant said:
So you think priti Patel is worthy of her office then...IshmaelZ said:
I think you attach more importance to peoples' "descent" than most of us do.theelephant said:
I just think having 2 people of South Asian descent in the big offices of state smarks of tokenism when one is priti patelBenpointer said:
You think we'd do better to have a government of white men?theelephant said:
Lol you have made my point....CorrectHorseBattery said:
It’s great. Just a shame they’re so uselesstheelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
0 -
Interesting. My impression was they don't like to mix urban and rural in general if they can help itdixiedean said:
Alnwick elects 2 to keep Alnwick together. But Prudhoe is divided into 2. Berwick and Hexham to three.kle4 said:
And thank heaven's for that. I'm not sure what the proportions are though, the list of councils this year electing by thirds is pretty high. Some are even electing by halfs, the maniacs. dixiedean might be right, but I've never seen the overall figuresHYUFD said:
Most of the country only elects district or unitary councillors one year out of 4 in all out elections, not just London boroughsdixiedean said:Anyone know why London elects three councillors per ward every four years rather than one in 3 years out of four like much of the rest of the country?
Unlike here. Where we elect only one councillor per ward every four years. Well, for 65 of them. The 66th elects two.
But of course it does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_Kingdom_local_elections
As to 65 wards being 1 cllr and 1 ward having 2, you can blame the LGBCE for that sort of thing - it makes drawing boundaries easier for them to create wards of acceptable variance, and I've seen councils with a mixture of 1,2 and 3. I did wonder if they have been given new guidance on that, as I was stunned that Buckinghamshire Council, the new unitary, not only had well over 100 seats (which is not well liked by them and is rare) but 49 wards each with 3 cllrs.
Ponteland has its tiny centre quartered into four wards. Each one having a huge hinterland of villages many, many miles from Ponteland.
Of course, the way the process works they often work off the most plausible overall scheme initially proposed and tweak it in later stages, so it may be that the authority itself made that suggestion initially, and it was only in Alnwick that enough people argued against it and so persuaded them to make it a twofer to keep them together?
Edit: No, looks like the council and others objected to it, but they were dismissed, so the disparity with other areas is curious.0 -
You calling him a blow-in from Gaul?IshmaelZ said:
Stone Age = 1,333 generations back, and if you can trace yourself 13 generations back then A. you are v posh and B. still only 1% of the way there. If you have exactly 5 digits per extremity, odds are against your being purebred over all that time.turbotubbs said:
I reckon I’m Wiltshire back to the Stone Age, certainly as far as it’s been traced. Makes me proud, kindakle4 said:
More than you might think, but looking at places where you can claim citizenship based on grandparent lineage it's not treated nonsensically universally, even though if he were to call himself Turkish it would be silly. If he were still american he would definitely call himself of English-Turkish heritage.IshmaelZ said:
A nonsensical claim. Who is not "of mixed race" by that sort of standard?ydoethur said:
Boris Johnson is of mixed race as well. The usual reminder that his grandfather was Turkish.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
0 -
Rather having 1 ward with 3 councillors there should be 3 smaller wards with 1 councillor each. Make politics more local.4
-
I exaggerate for effect, as you do so well too. Most of us can never really know our ancestry, and I guess the further back you go, the more ancestors there are until we all reach genius khan, or something...IshmaelZ said:
Stone Age = 1,333 generations back, and if you can trace yourself 13 generations back then A. you are v posh and B. still only 1% of the way there. If you have exactly 5 digits per extremity, odds are against your being purebred over all that time.turbotubbs said:
I reckon I’m Wiltshire back to the Stone Age, certainly as far as it’s been traced. Makes me proud, kindakle4 said:
More than you might think, but looking at places where you can claim citizenship based on grandparent lineage it's not treated nonsensically universally, even though if he were to call himself Turkish it would be silly. If he were still american he would definitely call himself of English-Turkish heritage.IshmaelZ said:
A nonsensical claim. Who is not "of mixed race" by that sort of standard?ydoethur said:
Boris Johnson is of mixed race as well. The usual reminder that his grandfather was Turkish.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
0 -
I think the party of Hancock, Grayling and Williamson might have been up to the task.theelephant said:
Would someone of priti patels competence have got to be home secretary if they were a white man...IshmaelZ said:
No, moron, but I genuinely don't give a fuck in either direction about her "Asian descent," and failure to be white, and certainly not enough to introduce it out of the blue as an off-topic topic at the beginning of a thread. You do. Why?theelephant said:
So you think priti Patel is worthy of her office then...IshmaelZ said:
I think you attach more importance to peoples' "descent" than most of us do.theelephant said:
I just think having 2 people of South Asian descent in the big offices of state smarks of tokenism when one is priti patelBenpointer said:
You think we'd do better to have a government of white men?theelephant said:
Lol you have made my point....CorrectHorseBattery said:
It’s great. Just a shame they’re so uselesstheelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
2 -
Or, pile on to him - that sort of shit is catnip to the people with a vote on his future.rottenborough said:Ohhhh!
Newsnight have heard that Treasury officials urged Sunak to do something on UC to cope with cost of living.
He overruled them.
Massive, if true.
Sunak is a lay.
0 -
They certainly are sending very mixed signals. Either left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, or a cynical strategy to be able to claim they are free speech/low tax etc with one measure, even as they do the opposite on another measure.Foxy said:
Though you can get banged up for an annoying protest.rottenborough said:
Allie Hodgkins-Brown
@AllieHBNews
Saturday’s Daily MAIL: “Raab: Free Speech To Get Legal Supremacy” #TomorrowsPapersToday
"You have the right to free speech as long as you are not dumb enough to actually try it."0 -
I like a bit of chaotic nature but there are limitations, and the devolution nonsense does not help, though the push for unitaries does. As to the latter point, and don't they know it too!LostPassword said:
I quite like a hotch-potch mess, if things have developed for idiosyncratic reasons, provided that people are mostly happy with them, and they largely work. But it's not just the elections to local government that are a mess. Revenue-raising is a mess. Accountability is a mess, partly because local journalism is mostly dead, but mostly because central government has made most of the decisions and restricted the funding so much that there's no leeway to be accountable for anything much else.dixiedean said:
Re Bucks. The Tory membership needs sinecures to aspire to.kle4 said:
And thank heaven's for that. I'm not sure what the proportions are though, the list of councils this year electing by thirds is pretty high. Some are even electing by halfs, the maniacs. dixiedean might be right, but I've never seen the overall figuresHYUFD said:
Most of the country only elects district or unitary councillors one year out of 4 in all out elections, not just London boroughsdixiedean said:Anyone know why London elects three councillors per ward every four years rather than one in 3 years out of four like much of the rest of the country?
Unlike here. Where we elect only one councillor per ward every four years. Well, for 65 of them. The 66th elects two.
But of course it does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_Kingdom_local_elections
As to 65 wards being 1 cllr and 1 ward having 2, you can blame the LGBCE for that sort of thing - it makes drawing boundaries easier for them to create wards of acceptable variance, and I've seen councils with a mixture of 1,2 and 3. I did wonder if they have been given new guidance on that, as I was stunned that Buckinghamshire Council, the new unitary, not only had well over 100 seats (which is not well liked by them and is rare) but 49 wards each with 3 cllrs.
The entirety of local government is a hotch-potch mess.
Local government seems to exist largely to act as a scapegoat for decisions made in Westminster.0 -
I won't let you down on that score.Farooq said:
But they've still got a pretty good grip on the opportunities to demonstrate it.rcs1000 said:
White men hold no monopoly on incompetence.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
2 -
Many of those voters on the green benches are red wall these days. UC cuts, foodbanks and so on are a disaster for those seats.IshmaelZ said:
Or, pile on to him - that sort of shit is catnip to the people with a vote on his future.rottenborough said:Ohhhh!
Newsnight have heard that Treasury officials urged Sunak to do something on UC to cope with cost of living.
He overruled them.
Massive, if true.
Sunak is a lay.
0 -
Actually no it isn't. I was not happy when the UC uplift was withdrawn and the rough sleeping support measures were stopped. Most of the Conservatives I know want a decent society with support for people who need it - the argument is how it's paid for.IshmaelZ said:
Or, pile on to him - that sort of shit is catnip to the people with a vote on his future.rottenborough said:Ohhhh!
Newsnight have heard that Treasury officials urged Sunak to do something on UC to cope with cost of living.
He overruled them.
Massive, if true.
Sunak is a lay.0 -
I'm SW London as far back as I can go, but seeing as that is only about 150 years it's not that impressive. There also seems to be an unhealthy involvement in pubs in my family history.turbotubbs said:
I reckon I’m Wiltshire back to the Stone Age, certainly as far as it’s been traced. Makes me proud, kindakle4 said:
More than you might think, but looking at places where you can claim citizenship based on grandparent lineage it's not treated nonsensically universally, even though if he were to call himself Turkish it would be silly. If he were still american he would definitely call himself of English-Turkish heritage.IshmaelZ said:
A nonsensical claim. Who is not "of mixed race" by that sort of standard?ydoethur said:
Boris Johnson is of mixed race as well. The usual reminder that his grandfather was Turkish.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
2 -
It's the worst budget since Thatcher's days imho.turbotubbs said:
Something will need to be done, so it seems mad not to have done it on Wednesday.rottenborough said:Ohhhh!
Newsnight have heard that Treasury officials urged Sunak to do something on UC to cope with cost of living.
He overruled them.
Massive, if true.
Sunak is a lay.
Utterly appalling, tin eared and counter productive.
Sunak will spend the autumn statement undoing much of it.
If not before.
No wonder he looked nervous before he stood up to deliver it. Something in the back of his mind was shouting this is a turd.0 -
A thought. If Westminster had 3 member constituencies, say 220 of them, with annual elections for one-third, would we be better or worse governed?1
-
You calling me a Putin apologist? Eh? You want some? I’ll fight you Farooq.Farooq said:
Perhaps I've just had 8 years of cretins dismissing the valuable work of journalists as "lamestream media". First it was SNPers, then Corbynites, Brexiters, Trumplettes at the same time, and now Putin apologists.MoonRabbit said:
I knew you wouldn’t agree.Farooq said:
"Lamestream" fucking christMoonRabbit said:
Were those 4 Russian helicopters being shot down on here this morning really from a computer game?Farooq said:
I mean how do we REALLY know that the 100+ dead children aren't cRiSiS aCtOrSNigelb said:
He’s ‘just asking questions’.CorrectHorseBattery said:Sorry is @Luckyguy1983 a Putin mouthpiece now
It had a sort of Ukraine government video message stamped on it I thought odd, why would it gratuitously need that? It was created by Russians wasn’t it? So it was a propaganda to try to undermine honest Ukraine message, which mainly feed onto our news as true facts, Ukraine message discredited by Russians with fake message using computer game footage?
It’s got to be going on. I have suspected this all along. fake Russian pretend Ukraine propaganda, to undermine Ukraine giving us the facts. It doesn’t surprise me, firstly, as you would think the Russians would pay dirty truck loads of money to people to do that, whilst the real Ukraines are up their eyebrows in war zone, and a few times when bad news story’s of Russian aggression have come out, the Ukraine government have clarified it to excuse the Russians, so come across as honest to me.
One example was the cars of women and children destroyed on the safe route out of maripole, it did happen, but the Ukraine government said they were actually not on the agreed safe route when butchered by Russians, the other example is when Russia claimed chemical weapon factories, the US said there are no factories, the Ukraine government said yes there are chemicals factories US built with us, but definitely not making weapons. Do you agree with me sometimes the Ukraine government playing it too honest, maybe thinking it’s important for us to trust them?
so it’s fake Russian pretend Ukraine propaganda that could be causing your argument with LuckyMan? It’s obvious now PB are discussing these things to decide what’s true and not. We also need to appreciate, despite &kraine Government Official stamped on it, it’s come from GRU.
It’s hard for lamestream news to back track, so they put this “not yet verified by us message” out a lot now hoping to protect their integrity.
will you agree to meet LuckyMan in the middle and shake hands, as what is news and what is not is a bit hard? 💁♀️
That’s the clear difference between us maybe? You trust everything in old media newspapers and TV, more than you trust coming here to PB, and learning from it questioned and analysed by subject matter experts and put to debate?0 -
Worse. Unless there's a large majority then there'd be little stability so governments would be even less inclined to make unpopular decisions for fear of being kicked out within 12 months.dixiedean said:A thought. If Westminster had 3 member constituencies, say 220 of them, with annual elections for one-third, would we be better or worse governed?
1 -
A very interesting thought. Not quite chartist, but almost.dixiedean said:A thought. If Westminster had 3 member constituencies, say 220 of them, with annual elections for one-third, would we be better or worse governed?
It's hard to argue we are particularly well governed with a mass change every 3-5 years on average, but being small c conservative I do worry about a government being able to take a medium term view even if something which might in the long run be popular causes them to lose seats after a year. I don't credit we the public with sufficient foresight on what will end up being good policy. But it would certainly keep them on their toes.0 -
A misleading veneer, I assure you.Farooq said:
Surely you're more a sort of grey-beige rather than white.kle4 said:
I won't let you down on that score.Farooq said:
But they've still got a pretty good grip on the opportunities to demonstrate it.rcs1000 said:
White men hold no monopoly on incompetence.theelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
I don't know about your incompetence. Your posts are normally disappointingly sane and rational.1 -
He has revealed his true self. He is an utterly dry Thatcher worshipper who knows the price of at least one of the twenty different types of loaf delivered to his house for breakfast each day by minimum wage courier.ExiledInScotland said:
Actually no it isn't. I was not happy when the UC uplift was withdrawn and the rough sleeping support measures were stopped. Most of the Conservatives I know want a decent society with support for people who need it - the argument is how it's paid for.IshmaelZ said:
Or, pile on to him - that sort of shit is catnip to the people with a vote on his future.rottenborough said:Ohhhh!
Newsnight have heard that Treasury officials urged Sunak to do something on UC to cope with cost of living.
He overruled them.
Massive, if true.
Sunak is a lay.
Initially I liked the way he seemed to be competent and hard working compared to the clown.
But now I am done.
Lay.
0 -
So why do we have it for Councils?RH1992 said:
Worse. Unless there's a large majority then there'd be little stability so governments would be even less inclined to make unpopular decisions for fear of being kicked out within 12 months.dixiedean said:A thought. If Westminster had 3 member constituencies, say 220 of them, with annual elections for one-third, would we be better or worse governed?
1 -
There's not much that he did that he can undo. He's not going to be able to claw back any of the money given away. The chances of the cut to fuel duty not becoming permanent must be zero, for example.rottenborough said:
It's the worst budget since Thatcher's days imho.turbotubbs said:
Something will need to be done, so it seems mad not to have done it on Wednesday.rottenborough said:Ohhhh!
Newsnight have heard that Treasury officials urged Sunak to do something on UC to cope with cost of living.
He overruled them.
Massive, if true.
Sunak is a lay.
Utterly appalling, tin eared and counter productive.
Sunak will spend the autumn statement undoing much of it.
If not before.
No wonder he looked nervous before he stood up to deliver it. Something in the back of his mind was shouting this is a turd.
So if he does provide more money for those who most need it, we will have to borrow it.
What I'm surprised about is that I haven't heard anything from Tory backbenchers about more money for Defence. I know Reeves mentioned it. Maybe it's just not been reported on that prominently.0 -
Playing to too many audiences: the Conservative Party electorate and the actual electorate.rottenborough said:
It's the worst budget since Thatcher's days imho.turbotubbs said:
Something will need to be done, so it seems mad not to have done it on Wednesday.rottenborough said:Ohhhh!
Newsnight have heard that Treasury officials urged Sunak to do something on UC to cope with cost of living.
He overruled them.
Massive, if true.
Sunak is a lay.
Utterly appalling, tin eared and counter productive.
Sunak will spend the autumn statement undoing much of it.
If not before.
No wonder he looked nervous before he stood up to deliver it. Something in the back of his mind was shouting this is a turd.0 -
Waverley (Surrey) is much the same as London, as are many southern councils. I quite like that there isn't a continuous election campaign, though I know activists who prefer that because it helps mobilise the not-as-activists. I take Sandy's point that splitting up into lots of tiny wards would be more representative. Multiple councillors per ward makes progressive (or any other kind of) alliance easier, though.dixiedean said:Anyone know why London elects three councillors per ward every four years rather than one in 3 years out of four like much of the rest of the country?
Unlike here. Where we elect only one councillor per ward every four years. Well, for 65 of them. The 66th elects two.
But of course it does.0 -
Gavin Williamson waves.theelephant said:
Would someone of priti patels competence have got to be home secretary if they were a white man...IshmaelZ said:
No, moron, but I genuinely don't give a fuck in either direction about her "Asian descent," and failure to be white, and certainly not enough to introduce it out of the blue as an off-topic topic at the beginning of a thread. You do. Why?theelephant said:
So you think priti Patel is worthy of her office then...IshmaelZ said:
I think you attach more importance to peoples' "descent" than most of us do.theelephant said:
I just think having 2 people of South Asian descent in the big offices of state smarks of tokenism when one is priti patelBenpointer said:
You think we'd do better to have a government of white men?theelephant said:
Lol you have made my point....CorrectHorseBattery said:
It’s great. Just a shame they’re so uselesstheelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
5 -
And we know which one was uppermost in his mind.IshmaelZ said:
Playing to too many audiences: the Conservative Party electorate and the actual electorate.rottenborough said:
It's the worst budget since Thatcher's days imho.turbotubbs said:
Something will need to be done, so it seems mad not to have done it on Wednesday.rottenborough said:Ohhhh!
Newsnight have heard that Treasury officials urged Sunak to do something on UC to cope with cost of living.
He overruled them.
Massive, if true.
Sunak is a lay.
Utterly appalling, tin eared and counter productive.
Sunak will spend the autumn statement undoing much of it.
If not before.
No wonder he looked nervous before he stood up to deliver it. Something in the back of his mind was shouting this is a turd.0 -
Legacy. I've not checked by I'm guessing newly created authorities are now all out.dixiedean said:
So why do we have it for Councils?RH1992 said:
Worse. Unless there's a large majority then there'd be little stability so governments would be even less inclined to make unpopular decisions for fear of being kicked out within 12 months.dixiedean said:A thought. If Westminster had 3 member constituencies, say 220 of them, with annual elections for one-third, would we be better or worse governed?
And while you can request to become all-out if you think you think in the short term you will be winning seats under a by thirds approach you may not be inclined to make a switch. Most politicos I know are not fans of by thirds, but if, say, you did badly as all seats were up during the Maygasm, you might feel aggrieved.0 -
There are too many examples to count of that being true across a plethora of senior ministerial posts.theelephant said:
Would someone of priti patels competence have got to be home secretary if they were a white man...IshmaelZ said:
No, moron, but I genuinely don't give a fuck in either direction about her "Asian descent," and failure to be white, and certainly not enough to introduce it out of the blue as an off-topic topic at the beginning of a thread. You do. Why?theelephant said:
So you think priti Patel is worthy of her office then...IshmaelZ said:
I think you attach more importance to peoples' "descent" than most of us do.theelephant said:
I just think having 2 people of South Asian descent in the big offices of state smarks of tokenism when one is priti patelBenpointer said:
You think we'd do better to have a government of white men?theelephant said:
Lol you have made my point....CorrectHorseBattery said:
It’s great. Just a shame they’re so uselesstheelephant said:Do you realise for the first time in history there is not a single white man in any of the 3 great offices of state outside the pm...an Asian man, an Asian woman and a white woman...if the proponents of diversity are correct this should be the greatest govt ever...
0 -
Yet the 3.1% increase in benefits is actually slightly more than the 3% average pay increase agreed for the average worker this yearrottenborough said:
He has revealed his true self. He is an utterly dry Thatcher worshipper who knows the price of at least one of the twenty different types of loaf delivered to his house for breakfast each day by minimum wage courier.ExiledInScotland said:
Actually no it isn't. I was not happy when the UC uplift was withdrawn and the rough sleeping support measures were stopped. Most of the Conservatives I know want a decent society with support for people who need it - the argument is how it's paid for.IshmaelZ said:
Or, pile on to him - that sort of shit is catnip to the people with a vote on his future.rottenborough said:Ohhhh!
Newsnight have heard that Treasury officials urged Sunak to do something on UC to cope with cost of living.
He overruled them.
Massive, if true.
Sunak is a lay.
Initially I liked the way he seemed to be competent and hard working compared to the clown.
But now I am done.
Lay.1 -
That seems to me to be a fundamentally anti-democratic argument.RH1992 said:
Worse. Unless there's a large majority then there'd be little stability so governments would be even less inclined to make unpopular decisions for fear of being kicked out within 12 months.dixiedean said:A thought. If Westminster had 3 member constituencies, say 220 of them, with annual elections for one-third, would we be better or worse governed?
You are saying that a government needs to be able to make decisions which the public have no ability to influence, because otherwise they will make the wrong decisions. Why not do away with elections altogether then?
The current way in which we do politics infantilises the voters. If democracy is to work then we need to have voters who are prepared to take difficult decisions.
What I thought was particularly terrible about Sunak's budget was that he completely ducked being honest with the voters about the difficulty of the situation.1 -
I suppose the counter argument is the we've got a majority so we can do what we like for 4/5 years. Much beloved of one poster.kle4 said:
A very interesting thought. Not quite chartist, but almost.dixiedean said:A thought. If Westminster had 3 member constituencies, say 220 of them, with annual elections for one-third, would we be better or worse governed?
It's hard to argue we are particularly well governed with a mass change every 3-5 years on average, but being small c conservative I do worry about a government being able to take a medium term view even if something which might in the long run be popular causes them to lose seats after a year. I don't credit we the public with sufficient foresight on what will end up being good policy. But it would certainly keep them on their toes.
No matter how insane, inefficient or incompetent.
Not summat I've thought through, mind.1 -
How BigG can call our beloved royal family an anachronism and still pretend he is a Tory is beyond me!!MoonRabbit said:
Whaaaaaaaaaat rubbish!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Some of the pictures were embarrassing and shameful and really did the royal family no favoursIshmaelZ said:Behind the smiles and glamour the discontent over the Cambridges’ Caribbean tour was unmissable
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2022/03/25/cambridges-caribbean-tour-triumph-monarchy-relic-past/
telegraph having another pop
I think the writing is on the wall. By the time they succeed dear old Katie is going to look like the desiccated mummy of Cruella de Ville, baldy is going to turn into fat Old Baldy, and the more they mishandle the whole piccaninny thang, the more shutting out (the admittedly ghastly) Meghan is going to look like a terrible mistake.
I have long been of the opinion that once HMQ goes so most countries will separate from the monarchy
It is becoming an anachronism
Anachronism? Why compare it to spiders?
Who are we as a people, as a nation? What direction do we want to go? Sure there comes a time when the most fundamental questions need to be addressed, no matter how challenging. Where One needs ones heart to follow an idea, it is the monarchy that is already bringing us together. Holding us together. A monarchy to unite Our colours, Our Faiths, our principles. Before us now is our future, a wider road upon which we seek one another in our aloneness, and we walk the road when we have no hearth to sit beside. Where we will live upon one another according to the law, ancient and timeless, and thus live together in loving kindness. A path To cross the divides of neighbourhoods. A way shared by all Cultures and religion.
Our monarchy is that opening, an opportunity To Walk rough shod over the divide between us, as nations, and as people’s.
When you are Venturing forth together into unknown territory. You cannot be an adventurer without an unknown to explore. Each and every one of us venturing now into a new landscape, we can only be guided by our hearts, our love, our faith. The monarchy let’s all hearts join with ours, it’s never been more relevant.1 -
I don't know how they count the ballots in multi member wards. How do you put the same ballot into three different piles?
On that note of bafflement, goodnight.0 -
I am in awe of how ballsy so many Ukrainian citizens are. This video shows a group singing the Bayraktar song in taunting Russian troops down the road (apparently the main drag of Kherson)
https://twitter.com/WashingtonPoint/status/1507336374067810306
And then there is this dark sense of humour:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOuqMViXsAAUJ9Z?format=jpg&name=900x900
0 -
👍🏻HYUFD said:
How BigG can call our beloved royal family an anachronism and still pretend he is a Tory is beyond me!!MoonRabbit said:
Whaaaaaaaaaat rubbish!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Some of the pictures were embarrassing and shameful and really did the royal family no favoursIshmaelZ said:Behind the smiles and glamour the discontent over the Cambridges’ Caribbean tour was unmissable
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2022/03/25/cambridges-caribbean-tour-triumph-monarchy-relic-past/
telegraph having another pop
I think the writing is on the wall. By the time they succeed dear old Katie is going to look like the desiccated mummy of Cruella de Ville, baldy is going to turn into fat Old Baldy, and the more they mishandle the whole piccaninny thang, the more shutting out (the admittedly ghastly) Meghan is going to look like a terrible mistake.
I have long been of the opinion that once HMQ goes so most countries will separate from the monarchy
It is becoming an anachronism
Anachronism? Why compare it to spiders?
Who are we as a people, as a nation? What direction do we want to go? Sure there comes a time when the most fundamental questions need to be addressed, no matter how challenging. Where One needs ones heart to follow an idea, it is the monarchy that is already bringing us together. Holding us together. A monarchy to unite Our colours, Our Faiths, our principles. Before us now is our future, a wider road upon which we seek one another in our aloneness, and we walk the road when we have no hearth to sit beside. Where we will live upon one another according to the law, ancient and timeless, and thus live together in loving kindness. A path To cross the divides of neighbourhoods. A way shared by all Cultures and religion.
Our monarchy is that opening, an opportunity To Walk rough shod over the divide between us, as nations, and as people’s.
When you are Venturing forth together into unknown territory. You cannot be an adventurer without an unknown to explore. Each and every one of us venturing now into a new landscape, we can only be guided by our hearts, our love, our faith. The monarchy let’s all hearts join with ours, it’s never been more relevant.1 -
It is obviously slightly anti democratic as more chances to vote is by definition more democracy. I'm just a firm believer that an elected government should be given the time (majority size permitting) to be able to carry out more complex reforms that aren't at risk of being reversed because they haven't had time to take effect and bed in.LostPassword said:
That seems to me to be a fundamentally anti-democratic argument.RH1992 said:
Worse. Unless there's a large majority then there'd be little stability so governments would be even less inclined to make unpopular decisions for fear of being kicked out within 12 months.dixiedean said:A thought. If Westminster had 3 member constituencies, say 220 of them, with annual elections for one-third, would we be better or worse governed?
You are saying that a government needs to be able to make decisions which the public have no ability to influence, because otherwise they will make the wrong decisions. Why not do away with elections altogether then?
The current way in which we do politics infantilises the voters. If democracy is to work then we need to have voters who are prepared to take difficult decisions.
What I thought was particularly terrible about Sunak's budget was that he completely ducked being honest with the voters about the difficulty of the situation.0 -
Re Eurovision:
As previously stated here, I had £600 on UKR to win at 4.8 and sold the bet at 3.55, banking nearly £200. UKR are currently favourites at 2.52. Value or not?
I've been thinking a bit more about this market. If UKR are able to file a team and they win - as expected - it will be a great PUCK FUTIN message. But will it actually affect the outcome of the war? I don't think so.
Ed Sheeran is about to hold a concert in Birmingham in support of UKR and the UKR band Antytila were keen to perform remotely. But they are all currently fighting the war and are soldiers in combat gear and the idea has been turned down by the organisers because of the fact that they are soldiers and the concert organisers state that the concert has "a purely humanitarian purpose".
The current Eurovision UKR entry, Kalush Orchestra, band members are also currently fighting the war. It would probably be a huge PR success if they left battle and attended Eurovision and won the vote. But it might not be possible for them to do so. It won't win them the war and it might be viewed by some voters as the wrong priority choice for them at this moment in time. And if they don't make Eurovision this time and UKR remain as an independent state, they would surely be a shoo in for next year.
So, for now, I'm keeping out of this market.0 -
Downsides to either approach. Political culture including citizenry can improve, but I'm not sure how to get there. It's not even a matter of people making the wrong choices if we had more frequent elections, just that the effects of some decisions and investments take time to show themselves, so is it even reasonable to ask people to weigh in so often? If the government brings in a tax that's unpopular and then loses its majority as a result, but then the new government realises there were very few options and keeps it going, what was even the point?dixiedean said:
I suppose the counter argument is the we've got a majority so we can do what we like for 4/5 years. Much beloved of one poster.kle4 said:
A very interesting thought. Not quite chartist, but almost.dixiedean said:A thought. If Westminster had 3 member constituencies, say 220 of them, with annual elections for one-third, would we be better or worse governed?
It's hard to argue we are particularly well governed with a mass change every 3-5 years on average, but being small c conservative I do worry about a government being able to take a medium term view even if something which might in the long run be popular causes them to lose seats after a year. I don't credit we the public with sufficient foresight on what will end up being good policy. But it would certainly keep them on their toes.
No matter how insane, inefficient or incompetent.
Not summat I've thought through, mind.0 -
I made a point nothing about the war but about PB being better than old style media. I prefer to get understanding from PB, it gets tested here against different points of view, backgrounds, experiences, speshullisms. The old media is owned and edited by people with a particular bent. I trust it less now as “the valuable work of journalists” than you do. I always liked to cross refer, I recommend it to you. No not in all instances there is good people and stuff you can trust. Not particularly in the papers though, the hacks will hammer Johnson over parties one week, get promotion and pay rise to different organ and earn their living hammering Captain Hindsight instead.Farooq said:
No, you're the weirder variety, the Putin apologist apologist.MoonRabbit said:
You calling me a Putin apologist? Eh? You want some? I’ll fight you Farooq.Farooq said:
Perhaps I've just had 8 years of cretins dismissing the valuable work of journalists as "lamestream media". First it was SNPers, then Corbynites, Brexiters, Trumplettes at the same time, and now Putin apologists.MoonRabbit said:
I knew you wouldn’t agree.Farooq said:
"Lamestream" fucking christMoonRabbit said:
Were those 4 Russian helicopters being shot down on here this morning really from a computer game?Farooq said:
I mean how do we REALLY know that the 100+ dead children aren't cRiSiS aCtOrSNigelb said:
He’s ‘just asking questions’.CorrectHorseBattery said:Sorry is @Luckyguy1983 a Putin mouthpiece now
It had a sort of Ukraine government video message stamped on it I thought odd, why would it gratuitously need that? It was created by Russians wasn’t it? So it was a propaganda to try to undermine honest Ukraine message, which mainly feed onto our news as true facts, Ukraine message discredited by Russians with fake message using computer game footage?
It’s got to be going on. I have suspected this all along. fake Russian pretend Ukraine propaganda, to undermine Ukraine giving us the facts. It doesn’t surprise me, firstly, as you would think the Russians would pay dirty truck loads of money to people to do that, whilst the real Ukraines are up their eyebrows in war zone, and a few times when bad news story’s of Russian aggression have come out, the Ukraine government have clarified it to excuse the Russians, so come across as honest to me.
One example was the cars of women and children destroyed on the safe route out of maripole, it did happen, but the Ukraine government said they were actually not on the agreed safe route when butchered by Russians, the other example is when Russia claimed chemical weapon factories, the US said there are no factories, the Ukraine government said yes there are chemicals factories US built with us, but definitely not making weapons. Do you agree with me sometimes the Ukraine government playing it too honest, maybe thinking it’s important for us to trust them?
so it’s fake Russian pretend Ukraine propaganda that could be causing your argument with LuckyMan? It’s obvious now PB are discussing these things to decide what’s true and not. We also need to appreciate, despite &kraine Government Official stamped on it, it’s come from GRU.
It’s hard for lamestream news to back track, so they put this “not yet verified by us message” out a lot now hoping to protect their integrity.
will you agree to meet LuckyMan in the middle and shake hands, as what is news and what is not is a bit hard? 💁♀️
That’s the clear difference between us maybe? You trust everything in old media newspapers and TV, more than you trust coming here to PB, and learning from it questioned and analysed by subject matter experts and put to debate?
I feel sorry for you Farooq, you get more bitter with every post, sat there with Ukraine flag on both cheeks thinking only you are worthy and unless we don’t hit your level of fervour, we don’t care. We bloody do care. We are battling on for what’s right and meaningful in this world as much as everyone. But You’ve got yourself lost mate, turning on your brothers and sisters and free speech.
I’ll go and pray for you now.0 -
There's a clever though very analogue (i.e. non-digital) solution: you line up all the ballots side by side and overlay them with a grid to keep them tidy, then count the votes for each candidate from left to right.SandyRentool said:I don't know how they count the ballots in multi member wards. How do you put the same ballot into three different piles?
On that note of bafflement, goodnight.0 -
Things can be anachronistic and still not necessarily need replacing. If we were starting from scratch now would we have it? Probably not. But is it worth replacing the whole thing? No thanks.HYUFD said:
How BigG can call our beloved royal family an anachronism and still pretend he is a Tory is beyond me!!MoonRabbit said:
Whaaaaaaaaaat rubbish!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Some of the pictures were embarrassing and shameful and really did the royal family no favoursIshmaelZ said:Behind the smiles and glamour the discontent over the Cambridges’ Caribbean tour was unmissable
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2022/03/25/cambridges-caribbean-tour-triumph-monarchy-relic-past/
telegraph having another pop
I think the writing is on the wall. By the time they succeed dear old Katie is going to look like the desiccated mummy of Cruella de Ville, baldy is going to turn into fat Old Baldy, and the more they mishandle the whole piccaninny thang, the more shutting out (the admittedly ghastly) Meghan is going to look like a terrible mistake.
I have long been of the opinion that once HMQ goes so most countries will separate from the monarchy
It is becoming an anachronism
Anachronism? Why compare it to spiders?
Who are we as a people, as a nation? What direction do we want to go? Sure there comes a time when the most fundamental questions need to be addressed, no matter how challenging. Where One needs ones heart to follow an idea, it is the monarchy that is already bringing us together. Holding us together. A monarchy to unite Our colours, Our Faiths, our principles. Before us now is our future, a wider road upon which we seek one another in our aloneness, and we walk the road when we have no hearth to sit beside. Where we will live upon one another according to the law, ancient and timeless, and thus live together in loving kindness. A path To cross the divides of neighbourhoods. A way shared by all Cultures and religion.
Our monarchy is that opening, an opportunity To Walk rough shod over the divide between us, as nations, and as people’s.
When you are Venturing forth together into unknown territory. You cannot be an adventurer without an unknown to explore. Each and every one of us venturing now into a new landscape, we can only be guided by our hearts, our love, our faith. The monarchy let’s all hearts join with ours, it’s never been more relevant.1 -
There's a contingency plan for Ukraine if the act otherwise can't perform. The act was recently in Lviv to film a recorded version of their song so it'll be there regardless.stjohn said:Re Eurovision:
As previously stated here, I had £600 on UKR to win at 4.8 and sold the bet at 3.55, banking nearly £200. UKR are currently favourites at 2.52. Value or not?
I've been thinking a bit more about this market. If UKR are able to file a team and they win - as expected - it will be a great PUCK FUTIN message. But will it actually affect the outcome of the war? I don't think so.
Ed Sheeran is about to hold a concert in Birmingham in support of UKR and the UKR band Antytila were keen to perform remotely. But they are all currently fighting the war and are soldiers in combat gear and the idea has been turned down by the organisers because of the fact that they are soldiers and the concert organisers state that the concert has "a purely humanitarian purpose".
The current Eurovision UKR entry, Kalush Orchestra, band members are also currently fighting the war. It would probably be a huge PR success if they left battle and attended Eurovision and won the vote. But it might not be possible for them to do so. It won't win them the war and it might be viewed by some voters as the wrong priority choice for them at this moment in time. And if they don't make Eurovision this time and UKR remain as an independent state, they would surely be a shoo in for next year.
So, for now, I'm keeping out of this market.
The same is the case for all performing nations in case of Covid, they can record a video entry. The UK's act was in Bulgaria doing this earlier this week.2
