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Wanted: A PM who DID NOT go to Oxford – politicalbetting.com

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  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818
    kle4 said:

    What if we don't have enough different words for types of blue in our particular language? Would we even see the difference between cyan and aquamarine and periwinkle?
    The Chinese have no distinction between green and brown. It is all Ching dz. Literally nature coloured. Teaching colours in English
    Carnyx said:

    Er, I don't think the Reformers were atheists. Yet look at what happened in England and Scotland. Albeit the former somewhat remedied by the Anglo-Catholic wing of the C of E.
    Indeed. The Taliban blew up the Buddhas at Bamiyan.
    Doubtless they'd read Dawkins.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,838
    Eabhal said:

    I just watched a few vids on twitter and the mob mention his prosecuting journalists/Savile.

    Not good. Bit Trumpian.
    This is why it's really not good when a political party gets into the position of defending the indefensible.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,296
    edited February 2022
    Leon said:

    My faith has absolutely zero to do with life-after-death

    So Larkin, despite being a genius poet, is wrong here
    He's right for many (inc me). People don't like to think dying spells the end of them. Because if so it's the end of everything as far as they are concerned. An infinite eternal black void awaits. Not even that in fact. An infinite eternal black void would be lovely by comparison. This is the bleakest of prospects, both terrible and certain. So it's worth mitigating mentally and a way to do this is to postulate a 'soul' which (like Celine Dion's heart) goes on. This brings a spiritual dimension and 'god' into play. It makes sense to me although I can't myself manage it. Not yet anyway. There's time. Your faith seems to be more of the spacey "there's more than we can ever know" type. That's different to what I'm talking about. But anyway ... my bag of nuts won't open itself.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,644

    So we can deduce, from all those polls that Labour are drifting slightly upwards, the Conservative, LibDems and Greens slightly downwards.
    What I would like to see is the percentage of those who said they genuinely didn't know, at this point in time, how they were likely to vote next time.
    Looking at the detailed tables, it's 17%, with 22% of 2019 Tories, 10% of Labour and 15% of LibDems. So quite a chunk of Tories currently adrift. My experience is that a chunk of don't knows will simply not vote.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,763

    R4 PM reporting that Starmer has been escorted into the back of a Met police car What a total numpty!

    Another Milliband bacon sandwich moment. What an utter spanner!

    Are you quoting a tweet?

    If not, that's a stupid post. Don't need our politicians getting Palmed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,959
    edited February 2022
    Eabhal said:

    I just watched a few vids on twitter and the mob mention his prosecuting journalists/Savile.

    Not good. Bit Trumpian.
    Mob also ranting about being traitor of the working class and something about Julian Assange.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,911
    Carnyx said:

    Er, I don't think the Reformers were atheists. Yet look at what happened in England and Scotland. Albeit the former somewhat remedied by the Anglo-Catholic wing of the C of E.
    You’ve not been to Cambodia, have you?
  • Compared with what? Raw lists like this mean little, if anything.
    Has the whole concept of ‘political’ + ‘betting’ passed you by? Odd if so. Punters, by definition, have to make big calls on imperfect information. You are clearly no punter.

    I realise that 99% of the characters around here are only interested in the ‘political’ bit, but you’re the boring sector.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,929

    Shelley, Byron and others might have been having slightly different experiences on opium itself, though. That is the origin of a lot of the mythology.
    Were Shelley and Byron big on opium?

    Coleridge certainly was. "Kubla Khan" and "Christabel" must surely owe something to that.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    It was Kingsley Amis who nailed the fallacy that giving something a Latin name is the same thing as explaining it. "Why is that monk floating unsupported in mid air, mummy?" "That's called levitation, darling."
    Richard Feynman (much-admired by Dominic Cummings) drew a similar distinction between knowing the name of something and knowing about it.
  • What has evil genie has Johnson released?
    This could actually be the final straw with Boris. The other stuff could be dismissed as a succession of laughable fiascos. But to see the attempted lynching of the LOTO because of smears Boris disseminated from the dispatch box - this is dark stuff.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872
    HYUFD said:

    Atheism and disinterested agnosticism is also a symptom of the decline of self confidence in the West.

    Atheism combined with contempt for your nation's history. If you look at growing economies and growing nations, Nigeria, Brazil, India etc they are all religious. The least religious parts of the US however are also generally the most Woke and least patriotic.

    Even Putin recognises the strength of the Orthodox Church in entrenching pride in Russia (not that he is really a Christian of much devotion). China is atheist but then it has its own alternative religion ie devotion to the Communist Party as the backbone of China
    On the other hand, religion can really screw people up.

    My paternal grandfather was Plymouth Brethren. My paternal grandmother was not. When they got married, both sides of the family disowned them - and the marriage 'that would not last' lasted 60+ years, and produced four great kids, many grandchldren, and many, many superb great-grandchilren.

    The pain this religious rift caused that side of the family was intense, and the effects still reverberate to this day. Fortunately it was not as bad as it could have been, thanks to granddad volunteering from a reserved occupation in WW2.

    It was a pain caused by people seeing religion - or 'their' sort of religion - as the most important attribute a person could hold.

    It's bullshit.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    dixiedean said:

    The Chinese have no distinction between green and brown. It is all Ching dz. Literally nature coloured. Teaching colours in English to toddlers there is somewhat challenging.
    This brings back a dim boyhood memory of making a model Zero fighter from a Japanese plastic kit with Japanese instructions leavened with occasional English words. I was more than a little puzzled that the starboard wingtip light was marked 'blue' (it is universally green worldwide). Apparently the blue/green distinction in Japanese is not where you or I would put it. Or is this an urban myth?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818

    How would you define Confucianism or Taoism?
    Or Buddhism come to that. AIUI none of them have 'gods' in the sense the Abrahamic religions do.
    Although Buddhists 'sort of genuflect' (if that's the right phrase) towards assorted Hindu deities.
    More correct to say Indian deities.
    India was Buddhist for more than 1500 years. They are now considered Hindu, because India is.
    But it is more complex than that. They are similar deities, but different.
    And the word is prostrate.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081

    This could actually be the final straw with Boris. The other stuff could be dismissed as a succession of laughable fiascos. But to see the attempted lynching of the LOTO because of smears Boris disseminated from the dispatch box - this is dark stuff.

    Tory cabinet ministers continue to defend it in interviews
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,911
    Talking of Dubai, not for the faint hearted

    https://youtu.be/fZ1owXJZaSQ
  • What has evil genie has Johnson released?
    Not a surprise. Boris's smear was long in the planning and has just enough basis in fact, despite being completely false, to convince what are now termed low-information voters.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,118

    Has the whole concept of ‘political’ + ‘betting’ passed you by? Odd if so. Punters, by definition, have to make big calls on imperfect information. You are clearly no punter.

    I realise that 99% of the characters around here are only interested in the ‘political’ bit, but you’re the boring sector.
    He's asking for a bit more analysis - what are the changes in those vote shares compared to the last GE, or the last poll? Or you could maintain a running average of the subsample splits, which would be a bit more meaningful than simply looking at the figures from each poll in isolation.

    Not much point in making a fetish of imperfect information, and not seeking to do anything to derive more value from it.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    edited February 2022
    kinabalu said:

    He's right for many (inc me). People don't like to think dying spells the end of them. Because if so it's the end of everything as far as they are concerned. An infinite eternal black void awaits. Not even that in fact. An infinite eternal black void would be lovely by comparison. This is the bleakest of prospects, both terrible and certain. So it's worth mitigating mentally and a way to do this is to postulate a 'soul' which (like Celine Dion's heart) goes on. This brings a spiritual dimension and 'god' into play. It makes sense to me although I can't myself manage it. Not yet anyway. There's time. Your faith seems to be more of the spacey "there's more than we can ever know" type. That's different to what I'm talking about. But anyway ... my bag of nuts won't open itself.
    Quick question for you @Kinablu. I'm assuming you are an agnostic / atheist (apologies if I have got that wrong). Given that, how would you justify the Big Bang theory for the creation of the Universe? I am not a scientist by any stretch but my (limited) understanding is that, if the theory states the Universe started from 2 hydrogen atoms coming together, the obvious question is where those 2 atoms came from given one of the basic laws of physics is you cannot create something from nothing. Genuinely curious how a non-believer gets round that contradiction.
  • He'll use same currency as now: the krona.
    Dearie dearie me. How the mighty have fallen. Shame on you.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    Leon said:

    You’ve not been to Cambodia, have you?
    "A French church is generally much less interesting inside than an English or Italian church, precisely because the French s church was scoured by atheists"

    Just surorised by the French/English contrast, that's all - didn't seem the right way round to me. But you might well be right.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    Endillion said:

    i would say that, based on your description, you're an agnostic, not an atheist. And that the difference between absence of belief and belief of absence is the dividing line between the two.
    Not sure that's the case always. My flavour is that the question of god is irrelevant. If he appeared to me tomorrow morning while I'm having my toast and marmalade I might revise my view but he won't so I won't.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rpjs said:

    That’s misleading and something of a myth: lots of languages have no specific future tense: Chinese and Bahasa Indonesia are notable for having very few tenses. As indeed does English: please show me the future tense of any English verb. There are none: you can say “I went” for the past tense;?you can say “I go” or “I am going” for the present tense; but there is no verb form in English to mark a future activity. Instead you have to say “I will go”. All those languages have ways of expressing future activity and I’d be very surprised if you can actually find an example of an Amazonian (or other) language that has no way at all to express the future or past.

    As to colour, there are huge differences in how languages categorize colours. Welsh is interesting: it has a specific word for “blue”, “glas” which in some contexts, especially to do with natural things,, can also mean “green”. (@ydoethur please correct me if wrong)
    After a hard day's being anthropologised over they sit round caning the ayahuasca till one says "After the lies we told today about the absence of personal property rights, what shall we tell the nerds tomorrow?" "Let's tell 'em we only got a present tense, boss."
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    NEW @IpsosUK poll shows @UKLabour have their highest favourability rating since our tracker began just before GE2019 📈

    Favourable = 37% (+7)
    Unfavourable = 39% (-3)
    Net = -2

    Changes from 18 Jan 2022. https://twitter.com/CameronGarrett_/status/1490743943583121413/photo/1
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    Latest @YouGov @thetimes poll. In hindsight #Brexit right 39 (+1); wrong 48 (-1). Fwork 1-2.2.22 (ch since 11-12.1.22). https://bit.ly/3sns8jN
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818
    kle4 said:

    What if we don't have enough different words for types of blue in our particular language? Would we even see the difference between cyan and aquamarine and periwinkle?
    The Chinese have no distinction between green and brown. It is all Ching dz. Literally nature coloured. Tea
    Carnyx said:

    This brings back a dim boyhood memory of making a model Zero fighter from a Japanese plastic kit with Japanese instructions leavened with occasional English words. I was more than a little puzzled that the starboard wingtip light was marked 'blue' (it is universally green worldwide). Apparently the blue/green distinction in Japanese is not where you or I would put it. Or is this an urban myth?
    Certainly. The range of colours, and boundaries of their distinction doesn't translate between Chinese and English well at all.
  • He's asking for a bit more analysis - what are the changes in those vote shares compared to the last GE, or the last poll? Or you could maintain a running average of the subsample splits, which would be a bit more meaningful than simply looking at the figures from each poll in isolation.

    Not much point in making a fetish of imperfect information, and not seeking to do anything to derive more value from it.
    My apologies. My nerd-dom is so profound that I assumed it was frickin obvious the way the cookies are crumbling.

    Seriously, if you lack elementary knowledge of electoral behaviour in the Yookay, you are on the wrong obscure blog.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    Nasty anti-lockdown mob outside parliament chanting "traitor" at Sir Keir Starmer and one shouted that he's "protecting paedophiles". Labour leader was bundled into a police car.
    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1490749246378758151
    https://twitter.com/adam_lewis_b/status/1490742702660628483
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,892
    edited February 2022

    Were Shelley and Byron big on opium?

    Coleridge certainly was. "Kubla Khan" and "Christabel" must surely owe something to that.
    Refreshing my memory, Shelley considered opium / laudanum to have made him more politically radical, as well as attributing all sorts of spiritual insights to it, but yes, it was really more Coleridge than Byron I was thinking of, as the other main figure of the romantic poetic era to have been most interested in it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MrEd said:

    Quick question for you @Kinablu. I'm assuming you are an agnostic / atheist (apologies if I have got that wrong). Given that, how would you justify the Big Bang theory for the creation of the Universe? I am not a scientist by any stretch but my (limited) understanding is that, if the theory states the Universe started from 2 hydrogen atoms coming together, the obvious question is where those 2 atoms came from given one of the basic laws of physics is you cannot create something from nothing. Genuinely curious how a non-believer gets round that contradiction.
    Quantum theory says things come into existence out of nothing all the time.

    Why is God exempt from your theory anyway?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    Labour furious tonight that protesters who surrounded Starmer shouted he was "protecting paedophiles".

    Johnson's comments about Saville now likely to come under further scrutiny

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1490749873183985666
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,118

    This could actually be the final straw with Boris. The other stuff could be dismissed as a succession of laughable fiascos. But to see the attempted lynching of the LOTO because of smears Boris disseminated from the dispatch box - this is dark stuff.
    You'd hope so, but a lot of MPs will have suffered a lot of harassment one way or another from protesters in the vicinity of Westminster over the years - Brexit being particularly contentious - and so if they want to it would be quite easy for them to minimise this.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Scott_xP said:

    Latest @YouGov @thetimes poll. In hindsight #Brexit right 39 (+1); wrong 48 (-1). Fwork 1-2.2.22 (ch since 11-12.1.22). https://bit.ly/3sns8jN

    God can someone draw Sunak a bloody diagram?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872
    Carnyx said:

    Er, I don't think the Reformers were atheists. Yet look at what happened in England and Scotland. Albeit the former somewhat remedied by the Anglo-Catholic wing of the C of E.
    Whilst I agree the reformation was a terrible time for English architecture, I am unsure that the Victorian 'vandalism' of churches - often inspired by Angle-Catholicism - improved matters.

    Pugin's churches are far too OTT for my tastes. But that's just my tastes.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872
    Scott_xP said:

    Nasty anti-lockdown mob outside parliament chanting "traitor" at Sir Keir Starmer and one shouted that he's "protecting paedophiles". Labour leader was bundled into a police car.
    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1490749246378758151
    https://twitter.com/adam_lewis_b/status/1490742702660628483

    Were these protestors from the left or the right of politics? ;)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Refreshing my memory, Shelley considered opium / laudanum to have made him more politically radical, as well as attributing all sorts of spiritual insights to it, but yes, it was really more Coleridge than Byron I was thinking of, for the other main figure of the romantic poetic era to have been most interested in it.
    Confessions of an English Opium-Eater by de Quincey is short, very good and available online. He was a mate of Coleridge.
  • Labour furious tonight that protesters who surrounded Starmer shouted he was "protecting paedophiles".

    Johnson's comments about Saville now likely to come under further scrutiny


    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1490749873183985666?s=21
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    My apologies. My nerd-dom is so profound that I assumed it was frickin obvious the way the cookies are crumbling.

    Seriously, if you lack elementary knowledge of electoral behaviour in the Yookay, you are on the wrong obscure blog.
    It's only you that keeps track of Scottish subsamples and you're not even in the UK
  • A goat of a problem at Asda

    Fighting goats stop traffic at Asda as 'frustrated' drivers try to move them

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/fighting-goats-stop-traffic-llandudno-23009662#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare
  • Were these protestors from the left or the right of politics? ;)
    Corbyn was there.

    Piers that is.

    Piers Corbyn has now addressed protesters who targeted Keir Starmer earlier

    https://twitter.com/DavidTWilcock/status/1490741524891676685
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,118

    My apologies. My nerd-dom is so profound that I assumed it was frickin obvious the way the cookies are crumbling.

    Seriously, if you lack elementary knowledge of electoral behaviour in the Yookay, you are on the wrong obscure blog.
    Shrug.

    It's just that your post would be more interesting with that information. In particular, the margin of error on subsamples is so large that some further analysis is required to make them worth looking at for anything more than mild amusement value.

    We have plenty of nerds on here who are prepared to put in the effort to make things more interesting for the others. Shame that you are not one of us.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    So we can deduce, from all those polls that Labour are drifting slightly upwards, the Conservative, LibDems and Greens slightly downwards.
    What I would like to see is the percentage of those who said they genuinely didn't know, at this point in time, how they were likely to vote next time.
    The issue for Labour is, as has been pointed out before, their opinion poll performance is not being reflected in actual results. Local council by-elections have limited value but they should pick up at least some shift in sentiment. So far, they haven't, in fact the results would suggest any progress Labour is having in middle-class areas and not in their traditional heartlands.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,892
    edited February 2022

    On the other hand, religion can really screw people up.

    My paternal grandfather was Plymouth Brethren. My paternal grandmother was not. When they got married, both sides of the family disowned them - and the marriage 'that would not last' lasted 60+ years, and produced four great kids, many grandchldren, and many, many superb great-grandchilren.

    The pain this religious rift caused that side of the family was intense, and the effects still reverberate to this day. Fortunately it was not as bad as it could have been, thanks to granddad volunteering from a reserved occupation in WW2.

    It was a pain caused by people seeing religion - or 'their' sort of religion - as the most important attribute a person could hold.

    It's bullshit.
    I would call that purely restrictive social dogma, rather than anything to do with the spiritual possibilities of life, personally speaking.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    Taz said:

    Talking of Dubai, not for the faint hearted

    https://youtu.be/fZ1owXJZaSQ

    JEEEEESUS ************* ******** *** ************!!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872
    dixiedean said:


    The Chinese have no distinction between green and brown. It is all Ching dz. Literally nature coloured. Tea

    Which is why China will fail. Everyone knows the correct distinction is #B07C3C
  • Huh?

    Deltapoll did not ask that question.
    Probably 55 to 45 for the union even with Boris

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,644

    Were these protestors from the left or the right of politics? ;)
    The lunatic wing.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,712

    Not a surprise. Boris's smear was long in the planning and has just enough basis in fact, despite being completely false, to convince what are now termed low-information voters.
    Eh? How can it, as you say, have just enough basis in fact despite being completely false? Sounds contradictory to me.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,737
    edited February 2022

    I liked the last one he said "I get accused of arrogance because I don't pray, but what could be more arrogant than asking the God who didn't stop the Holocaust for help finding your car keys"
    Lost car keys are St Antony :smile:, if you are a Saint enthusiast.

    The last I heard, God's way of dealing with such arrogance is that you don't find them.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872

    I would call that pure restrictive, and social dogma, rather than anything to do with the spiritual possibilities of thing , myself.
    Religion is the restrictive and dogmatic aspects of spirituality. which is why religions try to say 'we are right, you are wrong' when they come against other forms of spirituality.

    Religion is power. People crave power over others. Spirituality is personal.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    IshmaelZ said:

    Quantum theory says things come into existence out of nothing all the time.

    Why is God exempt from your theory anyway?
    As I said in the post, I'm not a scientist. However my limited (again) understanding is that Quantum Theory explaining the creation of the Universe is like winning the National Lottery a million times over in succession given how many "ifs" and "buts" you have to assume in order to make it work.

    But you tell me differently.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,051
    TOPPING said:

    JEEEEESUS ************* ******** *** ************!!
    This isn't some reverse four yorkshireman tale of lack of bravery, but I can barely even watch that stuff. I don't like standing too close to the edge of a 1st floor balcony. In China there was this hotel that was like 50 stories, but all within a skyscraper, so there was a viewing floor at the top where you could look down to the lobby, all enclosed so no chance of falling, and I hated that.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,929
    I kinda wonder if Boris singing "I Will Survive" is just him ensuring the TV biopic which will inevitably follow his defensetration has as many memorable scenes as possible. At least means that an actor who can do a passable Welsh accent gets a part (playing Guto Harri)
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,892
    edited February 2022

    Religion is the restrictive and dogmatic aspects of spirituality. which is why religions try to say 'we are right, you are wrong' when they come against other forms of spirituality.

    Religion is power. People crave power over others. Spirituality is personal.
    Collective spirituality is not of necessity extremely dogmatic, although it is obviously much more likely to become so than private belief.

    Look at the Quakers, for instance. A very democratic and open-minded collective religious group.

  • JBriskin3 said:

    Well Nippy should be in jail for sedition. But it's actually her stormtroopers that drive round in the police vans up here so I'm pretty sure that it's me that should be more fearful than you.
    Please explain, for us not fluent in BritNattish.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Farooq said:

    The big bang theory says nothing about two hydrogen atoms coming together.
    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
    Apart from using Wikipedia, what is your explanation then?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    IshmaelZ said:

    After a hard day's being anthropologised over they sit round caning the ayahuasca till one says "After the lies we told today about the absence of personal property rights, what shall we tell the nerds tomorrow?" "Let's tell 'em we only got a present tense, boss."
    Totally. IIRC some of the material Margaret Mead used in Coming of Age in Samoa turned out to be exactly that.
  • MrEd said:

    As I said in the post, I'm not a scientist. However my limited (again) understanding is that Quantum Theory explaining the creation of the Universe is like winning the National Lottery a million times over in succession given how many "ifs" and "buts" you have to assume in order to make it work.

    But you tell me differently.
    But God kicking around out there is just a banality by comparison?
  • Probably 55 to 45 for the union even with Boris

    Complacency, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of Unionist complacency in the morning.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872

    Collective spirituality is not of necessity extremely dogmatic, although it is obviously much more likely to become so than private belief.

    Look at the Quakers, for instance. A very democratic and open-minded collective religious group.

    The one Quaker I know well (and who proclaims himself as such) is batsh*t insane, a big fan of Assad and Putin. And when criticised, he says, 'as a Quaker...'.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,892
    edited February 2022
    Farooq said:

    Don't whitewash it. Some religions actively try to control who you socialise with, who you pair up with. Until 7 years ago, you couldn't be monarch and married to a Catholic. The Pope must be unmarried and celibate. Muslims are told not to marry non-Muslims. Many religions ban same-sex relationships. This kind of control is normal in religion.
    Does that mean that power and control is all religion is ? Ofcourse, it doesn't.

    It's nothing to do with whitewashing ; the current trend is in fact a sort of "blackwashing" of every conceivable spiritual belief as tainted by power.
  • Complacency, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of Unionist complacency in the morning.
    The clueless wonders are in for a shock, am I right?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Provocative question. Why are we still wearing masks? If we aren't going to remove the requirement to wear them now, when are we? I admit I'm coming from a Welsh perspective but it annoys me that if I want to go to the Arts centre I must be wearing a mask, must have my vaccine passport and the mask can only be taken off when seated in the food area. I presume it is the same for the theatre though I can't find their guidance online. What is all this for? Yes it will reduce transmission but not by very much. There are no more people dying than would be expected at this time of year. We have got through the omicron (tidal) wave without the earth caving in as some of us were prepared to argue was unlikely anyway. I'm trying not to be too smug about that.

    I'll go further. Is it actually a bad thing that people get infected with omicron? Covid won't disappear and I would have thought getting infected with a fairly mild form of the disease if you've been vaccinated puts you in a better position if a nastier variant were to pop along at some point. Something which we don't tend to mention. I saw a link from zero covid types on twitter recently pointing out how fewer children were getting sick with a host of other diseases presumably as a result of social distancing. Well isn't that great? So many healthy children thanks to wearing masks and keeping away from their friends. However I think about my nieces and nephews and wonder what sort of immune system they are developing and if they are going to be rather 'naive' when the next nasty bug comes around which could be a covid variant more harmful to children than we've seen so far. I don't know the answer to this but the problem is the question isn't even being asked.
  • MrEd said:

    Apart from using Wikipedia, what is your explanation then?
    I thought you did a “PB flounce”?

    No other obscure blogs interested in your unique insights? Chortle.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    kle4 said:

    This isn't some reverse four yorkshireman tale of lack of bravery, but I can barely even watch that stuff. I don't like standing too close to the edge of a 1st floor balcony. In China there was this hotel that was like 50 stories, but all within a skyscraper, so there was a viewing floor at the top where you could look down to the lobby, all enclosed so no chance of falling, and I hated that.
    There’s a glass slide between two buildings that’s just opened out here, I think it’s 50 floors up
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Uaq5hJ2RBRE

    Also the zip line through the marina area, which I have done and was great fun. https://youtube.com/watch?v=VK8A5GA8aAo
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,831
    rpjs said:

    That’s misleading and something of a myth: lots of languages have no specific future tense: Chinese and Bahasa Indonesia are notable for having very few tenses. As indeed does English: please show me the future tense of any English verb. There are none: you can say “I went” for the past tense;?you can say “I go” or “I am going” for the present tense; but there is no verb form in English to mark a future activity. Instead you have to say “I will go”. All those languages have ways of expressing future activity and I’d be very surprised if you can actually find an example of an Amazonian (or other) language that has no way at all to express the future or past.

    As to colour, there are huge differences in how languages categorize colours. Welsh is interesting: it has a specific word for “blue”, “glas” which in some contexts, especially to do with natural things,, can also mean “green”. (@ydoethur please correct me if wrong)
    Leon peddling something based on merely cursory knowledge and understanding? Surely not.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,892
    edited February 2022

    The one Quaker I know well (and who proclaims himself as such) is batsh*t insane, a big fan of Assad and Putin. And when criticised, he says, 'as a Quaker...'.
    I'm not sure that that discredits an entire group. They still have strikingly few restrictions of adapting their beliefs, and their structures are quite noticeably democratic, for instance.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    Quite a big deal: one of Boris Johnson’s former cabinet ministers links the harassment of Starmer outside parliament to the PM’s Savile jibes
    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1490755275464314882
    https://twitter.com/juliansmithuk/status/1490754037708435460
  • The clueless wonders are in for a shock, am I right?
    Johnson blocks indyref.
    Starmer gonna block indyref.
    Davey? Who he?

    According to the PB brains trust there ain’t gonna be a fresh indyref. So, hard to see how any “clueless wonders” can be in for any “shock”.
  • Complacency, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of Unionist complacency in the morning.
    Son - bit patronising but no need for complacency you will lose the vote
  • Quite a big deal: one of Boris Johnson’s former cabinet ministers links the harassment of Starmer outside parliament to the PM’s Savile jibes

    Julian Smith tweets What happened to Keir Starmer tonight outside parliament is appalling. It is really important for our democracy & for his security that the false Savile slurs made against him are withdrawn in full.

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1490755275464314882
  • Eh? How can it, as you say, have just enough basis in fact despite being completely false? Sounds contradictory to me.
    Starmer was DPP. Savile was not prosecuted. There's your basis in fact. And it is completely false claim to imply a causal link. Boris knows he was lying.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    Please explain, for us not fluent in BritNattish.
    Nicola Sturgeon (First Minister of Scotland) should be in jail for Sedition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition) for failing to uphold the Edinburgh Agreement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Agreement_(2012))

    "Co-operation
    30. The United Kingdom and Scottish Governments are committed,
    through the Memorandum of Understanding between them and others,to
    working together on matters of mutual interest and to the principles of good
    communication and mutual respect. The two governments have reached this
    agreement in that spirit. They look forward to a referendum that is legal and
    fair producing a decisive and respected outcome. The two governments are
    committed to continue to work together constructively in the light of the
    outcome, whatever it is, in the best interests of the people of Scotland and of
    the rest of the United Kingdom. "
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,421

    Provocative question. Why are we still wearing masks? If we aren't going to remove the requirement to wear them now, when are we? I admit I'm coming from a Welsh perspective but it annoys me that if I want to go to the Arts centre I must be wearing a mask, must have my vaccine passport and the mask can only be taken off when seated in the food area. I presume it is the same for the theatre though I can't find their guidance online. What is all this for? Yes it will reduce transmission but not by very much. There are no more people dying than would be expected at this time of year. We have got through the omicron (tidal) wave without the earth caving in as some of us were prepared to argue was unlikely anyway. I'm trying not to be too smug about that.

    I'll go further. Is it actually a bad thing that people get infected with omicron? Covid won't disappear and I would have thought getting infected with a fairly mild form of the disease if you've been vaccinated puts you in a better position if a nastier variant were to pop along at some point. Something which we don't tend to mention. I saw a link from zero covid types on twitter recently pointing out how fewer children were getting sick with a host of other diseases presumably as a result of social distancing. Well isn't that great? So many healthy children thanks to wearing masks and keeping away from their friends. However I think about my nieces and nephews and wonder what sort of immune system they are developing and if they are going to be rather 'naive' when the next nasty bug comes around which could be a covid variant more harmful to children than we've seen so far. I don't know the answer to this but the problem is the question isn't even being asked.

    It’ll be like the six nations and allowing fans in stadiums. Masks will be ditched once the virtue signallers have had enough and there’s no longer political capital in prolonging the nonsense.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,118
    edited February 2022

    The one Quaker I know well (and who proclaims himself as such) is batsh*t insane, a big fan of Assad and Putin. And when criticised, he says, 'as a Quaker...'.
    There are lots of different Quakers, just as there are lots of different people all over the place. My paternal grandparents became Quakers and I always thought they were lovely about it, but it must have been different for my Dad, as he ended up being devoutly atheist.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    All Net Approval Ratings (7 Feb):

    Rishi Sunak: +8% (-3)
    Keir Starmer: -1% (–)
    Boris Johnson: -26% (+1)

    Changes +/- 31 Jan

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-7-february-2022/ https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1490744681831010311/photo/1
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,051

    Quite a big deal: one of Boris Johnson’s former cabinet ministers links the harassment of Starmer outside parliament to the PM’s Savile jibes

    Julian Smith tweets What happened to Keir Starmer tonight outside parliament is appalling. It is really important for our democracy & for his security that the false Savile slurs made against him are withdrawn in full.

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1490755275464314882

    It's not a big deal. Most of the party will continue to say he has clarified his remarks, and so avoid any question of connection between spreading such stuff and the sort of loonies who hassled Keir.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922
    Unpopular said:

    My hope is he would be a bit cannier than that. You can't out-SNP the SNP so offering more powers is just another short term strategy for storing up problems. There's not much to go on, admittedly, but I think he gets this. The Tories are Labour's enemy, but the SNP are their nemesis. I genuinely believe that an SLAB revival in Scotland is not only in Labour's interest, but is in the national interest.
    It will not happen as long as they persist in not being democratic.If they do not support independence they re going nowhere.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,892
    edited February 2022

    Religion is the restrictive and dogmatic aspects of spirituality. which is why religions try to say 'we are right, you are wrong' when they come against other forms of spirituality.

    Religion is power. People crave power over others. Spirituality is personal.
    Although I partially agree with aspects here, too, the other problem with it is that in our now very aggressively atheist society, religion has become a widely understood shorthand for anything vaguely spiritual at all. Anything remotely in this category is now tainted by the same concepts, solely of power.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,051

    Johnson blocks indyref.
    Starmer gonna block indyref.
    Davey? Who he?

    According to the PB brains trust there ain’t gonna be a fresh indyref. So, hard to see how any “clueless wonders” can be in for any “shock”.
    I think there'll be one. I'm just not quite sure yet how it will come about.
  • Son - bit patronising but no need for complacency you will lose the vote
    What “vote”?

    According to the Mensa geniuses around here, there ain’t gonna be no vote. Hmmm… wonder why…? Tis a brain teaser.
  • tlg86 said:

    It’ll be like the six nations and allowing fans in stadiums. Masks will be ditched once the virtue signallers have had enough and there’s no longer political capital in prolonging the nonsense.
    I'm still pro mask.

    I've spent the last two years wearing as mask and mouthing 'fuck off' to people who annoy me.

    I'm not ready to take off the mask, it will get me into trouble.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    tlg86 said:

    It’ll be like the six nations and allowing fans in stadiums. Masks will be ditched once the virtue signallers have had enough and there’s no longer political capital in prolonging the nonsense.
    It was quite amazing just how quickly Scotland and Wales opened stadia to fans, once it became clear the rugby would move to England if they didn’t!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,081
    @JulianSmithUK is right.. and there are many, many paid-up members of @Conservatives who agree. The hallmark of a confident & mature democracy is the ability to disagree strongly about ideas & policy while still respecting the integrity of your political opponents
    https://twitter.com/DLidington/status/1490755943575003139
    https://twitter.com/JulianSmithUK/status/1490754037708435460
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872

    Corbyn was there.

    Piers that is.

    Piers Corbyn has now addressed protesters who targeted Keir Starmer earlier

    https://twitter.com/DavidTWilcock/status/1490741524891676685
    The thing about Piers Corbyn - from my limited knowledge of him - is that I have no idea where on the political spectrum he lies. I do wonder if he lies somewhere off the plain, on the √(−1) axis,
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,118

    Provocative question. Why are we still wearing masks? If we aren't going to remove the requirement to wear them now, when are we? I admit I'm coming from a Welsh perspective but it annoys me that if I want to go to the Arts centre I must be wearing a mask, must have my vaccine passport and the mask can only be taken off when seated in the food area. I presume it is the same for the theatre though I can't find their guidance online. What is all this for? Yes it will reduce transmission but not by very much. There are no more people dying than would be expected at this time of year. We have got through the omicron (tidal) wave without the earth caving in as some of us were prepared to argue was unlikely anyway. I'm trying not to be too smug about that.

    I'll go further. Is it actually a bad thing that people get infected with omicron? Covid won't disappear and I would have thought getting infected with a fairly mild form of the disease if you've been vaccinated puts you in a better position if a nastier variant were to pop along at some point. Something which we don't tend to mention. I saw a link from zero covid types on twitter recently pointing out how fewer children were getting sick with a host of other diseases presumably as a result of social distancing. Well isn't that great? So many healthy children thanks to wearing masks and keeping away from their friends. However I think about my nieces and nephews and wonder what sort of immune system they are developing and if they are going to be rather 'naive' when the next nasty bug comes around which could be a covid variant more harmful to children than we've seen so far. I don't know the answer to this but the problem is the question isn't even being asked.

    We need to have a bit of effort put in to trying to get people back to normal social interaction, otherwise this will become the new normal, and it will be detrimental for many.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    Johnson blocks indyref.
    Starmer gonna block indyref.
    Davey? Who he?

    According to the PB brains trust there ain’t gonna be a fresh indyref. So, hard to see how any “clueless wonders” can be in for any “shock”.
    Starmer will enable a indyref I suspect.

    I'm ready for it - I just wish we could block indyref3 at this stage.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    Nicola Sturgeon (First Minister of Scotland) should be in jail for Sedition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition) for failing to uphold the Edinburgh Agreement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Agreement_(2012))

    "Co-operation
    30. The United Kingdom and Scottish Governments are committed,
    through the Memorandum of Understanding between them and others,to
    working together on matters of mutual interest and to the principles of good
    communication and mutual respect. The two governments have reached this
    agreement in that spirit. They look forward to a referendum that is legal and
    fair producing a decisive and respected outcome. The two governments are
    committed to continue to work together constructively in the light of the
    outcome, whatever it is, in the best interests of the people of Scotland and of
    the rest of the United Kingdom. "
    For us not fluent in DementedTwatish, what obscure point are you attempting to make?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,051
    JBriskin3 said:

    Nicola Sturgeon (First Minister of Scotland) should be in jail for Sedition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition) for failing to uphold the Edinburgh Agreement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Agreement_(2012))

    "Co-operation
    30. The United Kingdom and Scottish Governments are committed,
    through the Memorandum of Understanding between them and others,to
    working together on matters of mutual interest and to the principles of good
    communication and mutual respect. The two governments have reached this
    agreement in that spirit. They look forward to a referendum that is legal and
    fair producing a decisive and respected outcome. The two governments are
    committed to continue to work together constructively in the light of the
    outcome, whatever it is, in the best interests of the people of Scotland and of
    the rest of the United Kingdom. "
    According to the sedition link

    In Scotland, section 51 of the Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2010 abolished the common law offences of sedition and leasing-making[52] with effect from 28 March 2011
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    kle4 said:

    It's not a big deal. Most of the party will continue to say he has clarified his remarks, and so avoid any question of connection between spreading such stuff and the sort of loonies who hassled Keir.
    I think labour should fight dirty on this. It was, after all, one B. Johnson who dismissed the child abuse inquiry as “spaffing money up the wall”
  • A Labour MP has accused Boris Johnson of "inciting" violence against Sir Keir Starmer, after he was surrounded by an anti-lockdown mob.

    The group surrounded the Labour leader and chanted "traitor" while another protestor shouted that Sir Keir was "protecting paedophiles".

    Sir Keir was then bundled into a police car and escorted away from the crowd.

    Chris Bryant, Labour MP for the Rhondda, hit out at the Prime Minister after a video of the incident was shared on social media, suggesting it was Mr Johnson's comments in the despatch box regarding Jimmy Savile that had encouraged the group.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/02/07/chris-bryant-keir-starmer-boris-johnson-inciting-violence/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    The thing about Piers Corbyn - from my limited knowledge of him - is that I have no idea where on the political spectrum he lies. I do wonder if he lies somewhere off the plain, on the √(−1) axis,
    He’s an imaginary politician?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    But God kicking around out there is just a banality by comparison?
    I tend to take the Sherlock Holmes approach to things: "When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

    The Atheist argument seems to rest on the view that "God cannot exist, therefore there has to be some other reason why the Universe came into existence. Let's produce a theory to prove that". I think that is logically wrong because you have assumed something is impossible which you don't know one way or the other whether it is true or not. In that way, I'd say Atheists are more irrational than Believers - the latter say we don't know what happened but we believe in God whereas the former say we know there is no God - which is impossible to prove / disprove - therefore something else must be the answer, even though that something else has been nowhere near proven but is based on what would appear a scientific contradiction (i.e. creating something from nothing, a phenomenon which isn't really seen anywhere else).

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,580
    Eabhal said:

    Are you quoting a tweet?

    If not, that's a stupid post. Don't need our politicians getting Palmed.
    I just heard the R4 PM breaking headline. It sounded like Starmer had just been a dick.

    I wasn't aware of the Jimmy Savile accusation from the crowd.

    Boris flew a Trumpian kite last Monday.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,831
    MrEd said:

    Quick question for you @Kinablu. I'm assuming you are an agnostic / atheist (apologies if I have got that wrong). Given that, how would you justify the Big Bang theory for the creation of the Universe? I am not a scientist by any stretch but my (limited) understanding is that, if the theory states the Universe started from 2 hydrogen atoms coming together, the obvious question is where those 2 atoms came from given one of the basic laws of physics is you cannot create something from nothing. Genuinely curious how a non-believer gets round that contradiction.
    What a stupid question! Your imaginary Santa solves nothing. For, in the absence of a better explanation, I can simply suggest that the two atoms came from the same place that your big man in a red furry suit came from.

  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    kle4 said:

    This isn't some reverse four yorkshireman tale of lack of bravery, but I can barely even watch that stuff. I don't like standing too close to the edge of a 1st floor balcony. In China there was this hotel that was like 50 stories, but all within a skyscraper, so there was a viewing floor at the top where you could look down to the lobby, all enclosed so no chance of falling, and I hated that.
    I have a complete terror of heights. Watching anything like that makes me feel queasy.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    For us not fluent in DementedTwatish, what obscure point are you attempting to make?
    Nippy should be treated as a criminal in the same way those Catalonian politicians were.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    I just heard the R4 PM breaking headline. It sounded like Starmer had just been a dick.

    I wasn't aware of the Jimmy Savile accusation from the crowd.

    Boris flew a Trumpian kite last Monday.
    Genuine question - how did it sound like Starmer had just been a dick?
  • kle4 said:

    According to the sedition link

    In Scotland, section 51 of the Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2010 abolished the common law offences of sedition and leasing-making[52] with effect from 28 March 2011
    A Wikipedia fan who doesn’t even bother checking supplied sources? Who’d’ve thunk it?
This discussion has been closed.