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The top pollster from GE2019 has LAB lead in double figures – politicalbetting.com

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  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    edited January 2022

    Farooq said:

    MrEd said:

    pigeon said:

    It seems like only yesterday that most commentators, here and elsewhere, regarded a Labour majority government as impossible, and a Labour-led minority government implausible.

    How quickly times change - it's amazing what a few parties can do.

    It's far too early to make pronouncements on this subject, although Johnson is now so deeply in the mire and such an object of contempt that almost everyone agrees that a Tory defeat is more likely if he remains in office.

    There are a few things that we can say, however. For example, that yet another Conservative-led Government post the next GE would be an historic achievement, but that a swing massive enough to generate a Labour majority would also be of historic proportions (more extreme than 1997, I believe.)

    Factoring in both this and the massively strong position of the SNP, you would have to count a Labour minority (as opposed to a coalition, which is in the interest of neither Labour nor the SNP,) as the most likely outcome following the next election. However, should the Conservatives remove Johnson and install a replacement who transpires to be effective, then the path to another win is still open to them. They would have to suffer significant losses to erase their entire majority, the lost Labour voters in the North and Midlands aren't just going to troop back en masse, the electorate isn't yet sold on either Starmer or his party, and any new Prime Minister will likely stick it out until 2024 and hope that inflationary pressures subside and economic conditions improve in their favour (along with receiving some modest assistance from the boundary changes.)

    In short, it's fun pointing at all these dire polls for the Tories and speculating on what they might mean, but an election may be (and quite possibly will be) over two years away, and there's an awful lot that can happen between then and now. Starting with some resolution to the Johnson saga.
    You can see it in Labour’s general attitude (and on here from SKS’ fans) that their view is that BJ led ‘their’ voters astray and once the pied piper is gone, they will all come flocking back to their natural home. That is naive.
    And rejoin the EU
    Who, precisely, has predicted or recommended that?
    Many including on here
    Anyone on here in particular?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    Perhaps Boris needs to copy canoe man and go to Panama :-)

    If Boris is looking for a country tiny enough to win a quick war against within a few weeks to get a poll bounce, Panama might do
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    ydoethur said:

    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak has 45% thinking he would make a good PM.

    However Javid, Hunt, Gove, Truss and Patel all have 30% or less thinking they would make a good PM. All below the 31% Tory voteshare with Boris tonight.

    Therefore only replacing Boris with Sunak likely to see any bounce for the Tories at all

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1482444647351865353?s=20

    That being the case, why hasn't Sunak quietly asked his supporters to write letters to Graham Brady?

    Does he not have enough supporters in the Parliamentary Party who would like to see him become PM? Is he worried about losing the leadership contest?
    Neither Sunak nor Truss nor Hunt have many MPs pushing their case, which probably gives an idea of their supporter base.
    That's the obvious explanation. Which would suggest that the next leadership contest is a lot less predictable than often imagined.

    It would also help to explain why Johnson is still there. No-one really knows who will come next, and whether it will be better or worse, and so they will have to get really desperate to step into the unknown and/or a consensus on a replacement would have to be formed.
    “ next leadership contest is a lot less predictable than often imagined”

    How realistic is Tobias Elwood as a candidate?
    Well, they elected a mad backbencher with a silly voice and no brain last time. As did Labour in 2015. So we shouldn't rule anything out.
    Is Elwood mad, he seems on the saner wing of the party.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Bloody hell. When I said Putin was thinking of himself as a new Peter the Great, I didn't think that might involve war with Sweden. That would be being rather too literal.
    Russians have a bit of a thing about Sweden. We annoy them.

    Anyone annoy the English?
    You tell us. You claim to be the experts about the English character on this board. Do tell. We’re anxious to hear more of your valued, and of course dispassionate, analysis of our psyche.
    I'll do it:
    The English love both cricket and incest porn.
    They certainly love screwing their cousins to the north and west. The penetration is non-consensual.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    Just what we need with China poised to invade Taiwan and Russia poised to invade Ukraine, or the part of it they haven’t annexed. Weak, inept, leadership in the west and infighting in the Tory regime in westminster. What a time to be alive.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Farooq said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    I don't think the the Sutton Hoo find was an invasion ship. It was a ship burial.
    Also I’m pretty sure that some of the invading Vikings/Norsemen came from “Sweden” as well as Denmark and Norway, so it’s a stretch to say we’ve never been at war

    It’s just that, remarkably, for once, it was someone attacking us rather than us invading them
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Omnium said:

    Russian submarines very active in Baltic.

    Where are you finding out about such activity?
    No 1 story in Swedish news.

    Troops being sent to Gotland and tanks in the harbour town and capital Visby.
    Does @HYUFD know, he gets quite animated over the word tanks
    But not woke Swedish tanks. He like the butch Spanish ones.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,785
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Why? Fuck Sweden.

    In the spirit of AUKUS we should only defend English-speaking nations. Tho I guess that, awkwardly, includes Sweden

    If Sweden is allowed to fall, what was the point in, well, everything?

    It's everything a nation and people should be.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Amazing. The Colonelcy of the Grenadier Guards has reverted to the Queen from Prince Andrew. She first held this appointment 80 years ago (Feb 24th).
  • Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    King Cnut says, WTF?

    Battle of Helgeå
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Helgeå
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    edited January 2022

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    Portugal and several South American countries - Brazil, Bolivia, Venezuela (Corinto aside) all spring to mind without much difficulty.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Bloody hell. When I said Putin was thinking of himself as a new Peter the Great, I didn't think that might involve war with Sweden. That would be being rather too literal.
    Russians have a bit of a thing about Sweden. We annoy them.

    Anyone annoy the English?
    Well, duh, the French. I'm surprised you even had to ask.
    Ah, yes, of course, la Vieille Alliance.

    But you guys love the Argentinians don’t you? And the Germans? And the Scots? Of course you do. Hatchets we’re buried long ago.
    I rather like all nationalities. I rather fail to see myself as English, more British, and that's only really about where I was born, and what Rugby team I might support. (If only the Germans could play, or for that matter the French :))

    France is clearly the nation that has done the UK the most harm, and vice-versa. Some of it was just plain stupid. You'd be daft to hold that against the average person though.

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    Your encyclopaedic knowledge of England is not up to all that. The Sutton Hoo ship was used to bury a king not invade England. Or anywhere, except the afterlife.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    HYUFD said:

    Perhaps Boris needs to copy canoe man and go to Panama :-)

    If Boris is looking for a country tiny enough to win a quick war against within a few weeks to get a poll bounce, Panama might do
    He’d get lost on the way. It’s too far. Somewhere closer to home. The Isle of Man ?
  • Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    Don't forget Britain occupied the Swedish island of Hano for a couple of years. There's even a cemetery there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanö
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    edited January 2022
    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Bloody hell. When I said Putin was thinking of himself as a new Peter the Great, I didn't think that might involve war with Sweden. That would be being rather too literal.
    Russians have a bit of a thing about Sweden. We annoy them.

    Anyone annoy the English?
    You tell us. You claim to be the experts about the English character on this board. Do tell. We’re anxious to hear more of your valued, and of course dispassionate, analysis of our psyche.
    I'll do it:
    The English love both cricket and incest porn.
    Watching one’s step mom being pounded by a big, hairy Australian could combine the two, with a healthy dose of masochism thrown in.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Why? Fuck Sweden.

    In the spirit of AUKUS we should only defend English-speaking nations. Tho I guess that, awkwardly, includes Sweden

    Technically as well as defending Australia and the USA, we are obliged to defend France too as it is also in NATO with us unlike Sweden
    I really - honestly - wonder if NATO has any reality left at all. Would we go to war to defend France? Why? They’ve acted like utter c*nuts throughout Brexit and continue to do so. They literally want us to fail as a nation so Brexit can be seen as a disaster. Fuck them

    I’m perfectly serious. NATO Is brain dead (as, ironically, macron pointed out)

    British soldiers should only die defending AUKUS states and possibly Italy coz I like the Italians
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    Tim Loughton MP
    @timloughton
    I have regretfully come to the conclusion that Boris Johnson’s position is now untenable, that his resignation is the only way to bring this whole unfortunate episode to an end and I am working with colleagues to impress that view on Number 10.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    Another Conservative MP says Boris Johnson must resign https://twitter.com/timloughton/status/1482463465629495297
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Ireland can do one, as well
  • I don’t like this poll. It just doesn’t seem right to me.

    I expected it to be quite a similar margin gap reported between main parties from opinium, I thought maybe 9, because there’s two traits I’ve noted about this pollster polls in Observer, period when everyone else showed bigger Tory leads over Labour, this polling didn’t, but also didn’t change as markedly between each poll, as others do, certainly you gov do leap about. Obviously it’s all there for you to analyse for your own conclusions. But recent polls show Tory drop, after an uptick for Tories in holiday time polls.

    We saw from the by elections before Christmas libdems can attract Tory votes Labour just can’t. So with Tories declining, why only labour increasing and libdems jumping backwards in this polling?

    This poll has Labour increasing whilst the libdems drop into single figures - and I am just calling that plain wrong and an outlier in the current climate. To be fair all company’s can suffer a rouge poll now again, not really their fault? and fair enough time will prove me right or wrong if they report differently next time, time after, and the figures from this one don’t sit right in middle of sequence. But whilst voters are deserting scandal hit Tories this poll has labour gaining and the libdems going back into single figures - I’ll bake a tofu hat cake and eat it if that is accurate. More likely its 2 off Tory’s and 1 off Labour on the Lib Dems right now, for 40, 29, 12.

    ☹️

    Trust the swarm.

    Even if you compare the same pollster, each reading could fairly easily be two points out either way. That means you can get a change of plus or minus four points without anything really changing.

    Step back and look at all the polls together, from a distance, and the landscape is much clearer.



    You can see the Paterson Plunge, the little drift upwards when Christmas didn't turn into a disaster, and the next fall is beginning to show in the trendline.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Another Conservative MP says Boris Johnson must resign https://twitter.com/timloughton/status/1482463465629495297

    Good
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    Don't forget Britain occupied the Swedish island of Hano for a couple of years. There's even a cemetery there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanö
    When was the last time England went to war with Norway? 1066?

    Scotland of course had the invasion of Haakon IV in 1263.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Perhaps Boris needs to copy canoe man and go to Panama :-)

    If Boris is looking for a country tiny enough to win a quick war against within a few weeks to get a poll bounce, Panama might do
    Good look with trying to take Southern Panama quickly. Darién Gap, its crazy jungle, no roads and stuff full of what's left of the FARC types and drug cartels.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    Tomorrow on #SundayMorning with Sophie Raworth

    Leader of the Labour Party Sir Keir Starmer

    Conservative Party Chairman Oliver Dowden

    Former British number one Laura Robson

    Papers with Piers Morgan and Katy Balls

    9am, BBC One
    https://bbc.in/3fvpOkG
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    Farooq said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    I don't think the the Sutton Hoo find was an invasion ship. It was a ship burial.
    And Anglo-Saxon
  • Punning, so awesome you'd think it was me.


  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,785
    edited January 2022
    I'd also enjoy the confused look on @StuartDickson as the Black Watch fought, under the butcher's apron, to defend his lake house from the Russians.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Kaboom.

    Boris Johnson is deader than a DODO, you cannot recover from these results

    63% now think the Prime Minister should resign, nearly three times the 22% who think he should remain as Conservative Party leader.

    48% of those who voted Conservative in 2019 think he should go, with just 37% thinking he should stay.

    He’s toast. There’s no way back from this. Not for the Tories.
    I may try and work in a reference to a niche website into one of tomorrow's headers.
    Would this be one where you’d find the odd Stepmom or two ?
    Possibly.
    What I don't understand is why no Stepdads ever feature. Very non PC.
    You don't watch a lot of porn, do you?
    No, actually. Not since that weird Yugoslav film about orgone energy as a student, I think.
    I'm not sure I can let that one pass without a bemused look.
    Found it!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W.R.:_Mysteries_of_the_Organism

    I misread that as Mysteries of the Orgasm.

    Having read the article, that would, still make sense...
    Have you read much Reich Dr Y?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pllRW9wETzw
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Kaboom.

    Boris Johnson is deader than a DODO, you cannot recover from these results

    63% now think the Prime Minister should resign, nearly three times the 22% who think he should remain as Conservative Party leader.

    48% of those who voted Conservative in 2019 think he should go, with just 37% thinking he should stay.

    He’s toast. There’s no way back from this. Not for the Tories.
    I may try and work in a reference to a niche website into one of tomorrow's headers.
    Would this be one where you’d find the odd Stepmom or two ?
    Possibly.
    What I don't understand is why no Stepdads ever feature. Very non PC.
    You don't watch a lot of porn, do you?
    No, actually. Not since that weird Yugoslav film about orgone energy as a student, I think.
    I'm not sure I can let that one pass without a bemused look.
    Found it!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W.R.:_Mysteries_of_the_Organism

    I misread that as Mysteries of the Orgasm.

    Having read the article, that would, still make sense...
    Have you read much Reich Dr Y?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pllRW9wETzw
    I will confess the answer is 'no'...
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Nigelb said:

    Omnium said:

    Russian submarines very active in Baltic.

    Where are you finding out about such activity?
    No 1 story in Swedish news.

    Troops being sent to Gotland and tanks in the harbour town and capital Visby.
    Not convinced of the efficacy of tanks vs submarines.
    Sounds a bit HYUFD.
    FUDHY thinks that tanks are the ideal tool to prevent Catalonian and Scottish grannies from casting votes in ballot boxes.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    I don’t like this poll. It just doesn’t seem right to me.

    I expected it to be quite a similar margin gap reported between main parties from opinium, I thought maybe 9, because there’s two traits I’ve noted about this pollster polls in Observer, period when everyone else showed bigger Tory leads over Labour, this polling didn’t, but also didn’t change as markedly between each poll, as others do, certainly you gov do leap about. Obviously it’s all there for you to analyse for your own conclusions. But recent polls show Tory drop, after an uptick for Tories in holiday time polls.

    We saw from the by elections before Christmas libdems can attract Tory votes Labour just can’t. So with Tories declining, why only labour increasing and libdems jumping backwards in this polling?

    This poll has Labour increasing whilst the libdems drop into single figures - and I am just calling that plain wrong and an outlier in the current climate. To be fair all company’s can suffer a rouge poll now again, not really their fault? and fair enough time will prove me right or wrong if they report differently next time, time after, and the figures from this one don’t sit right in middle of sequence. But whilst voters are deserting scandal hit Tories this poll has labour gaining and the libdems going back into single figures - I’ll bake a tofu hat cake and eat it if that is accurate. More likely its 2 off Tory’s and 1 off Labour on the Lib Dems right now, for 40, 29, 12.

    ☹️

    Trust the swarm.

    Even if you compare the same pollster, each reading could fairly easily be two points out either way. That means you can get a change of plus or minus four points without anything really changing.

    Step back and look at all the polls together, from a distance, and the landscape is much clearer.



    You can see the Paterson Plunge, the little drift upwards when Christmas didn't turn into a disaster, and the next fall is beginning to show in the trendline.
    Nope. You can’t placate me. I’m cheesed off by that bad poll and I’m going to bed early 😠
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Nigelb said:

    Omnium said:

    Russian submarines very active in Baltic.

    Where are you finding out about such activity?
    No 1 story in Swedish news.

    Troops being sent to Gotland and tanks in the harbour town and capital Visby.
    Not convinced of the efficacy of tanks vs submarines.
    Sounds a bit HYUFD.
    FUDHY thinks that tanks are the ideal tool to prevent Catalonian and Scottish grannies from casting votes in ballot boxes.
    I wouldn't have thought that would be a problem. After all, sealed ballot boxes are hard to cast votes in. That's why most people prefer polling booths.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Why? Fuck Sweden.

    In the spirit of AUKUS we should only defend English-speaking nations. Tho I guess that, awkwardly, includes Sweden

    Technically as well as defending Australia and the USA, we are obliged to defend France too as it is also in NATO with us unlike Sweden
    I really - honestly - wonder if NATO has any reality left at all. Would we go to war to defend France? Why? They’ve acted like utter c*nuts throughout Brexit and continue to do so. They literally want us to fail as a nation so Brexit can be seen as a disaster. Fuck them

    I’m perfectly serious. NATO Is brain dead (as, ironically, macron pointed out)

    British soldiers should only die defending AUKUS states and possibly Italy coz I like the Italians
    Surely the other remaining Commonwealth realms too eg Canada and New Zealand?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088
    Leon said:

    Ireland can do one, as well

    Ireland has no effective air defence capability. This is provided by the RAF.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,997
    IanB2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    I don't think the the Sutton Hoo find was an invasion ship. It was a ship burial.
    And Anglo-Saxon
    The Wuffings of East Anglia were quite probably from Sweden. The helmet and shield from the burial have their closest examples in the Vendel period finds from Sweden, and some items were probably made there.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    .
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Russian submarines very active in Baltic.

    Where are you finding out about such activity?
    No 1 story in Swedish news.

    Troops being sent to Gotland and tanks in the harbour town and capital Visby.
    The Russians along the Ukranian border may well be most effective as a distraction of course.

    Does Sweden have any defensive understandings with any of the Baltic states?
    What would the Russians have to gain by attacking Sweden ?

    Sweden ?
    Or what’s left of it should they really be serious.

    More likely a bloody nose.
    Most likely it’s just Putin dicking around for the lolz.
    It makes sense that Putin would try a few distractions ahead of whatever he has planned.

    He’s such an attention seeking nob. Ukraine still seems most likely. Would be good - and highly unlikely - if the West were to do something unexpected and a bit left field in return. We are too predictable: sanctions on a few oligarchs, kick them out of one or two international organisations. Funding a deadly Ukrainian guerrilla insurgency would of course be effective but morally dubious. But a bit of creativity is certainly called for.
    There was a suggestion in one article that we might launch retaliatory cyber attacks. One of the advantages of those is that they have a certain degree of deniability that seizing Kaliningrad lacks.

    If Putin turned off the supply of gas to Europe, then being able to shut down the Russian gas industry with cyber attacks would be interesting.
  • HYUFD said:

    Perhaps Boris needs to copy canoe man and go to Panama :-)

    If Boris is looking for a country tiny enough to win a quick war against within a few weeks to get a poll bounce, Panama might do
    Uncle Sam says, WTF?
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Bloody hell. When I said Putin was thinking of himself as a new Peter the Great, I didn't think that might involve war with Sweden. That would be being rather too literal.
    Russians have a bit of a thing about Sweden. We annoy them.

    Anyone annoy the English?
    You tell us. You claim to be the experts about the English character on this board. Do tell. We’re anxious to hear more of your valued, and of course dispassionate, analysis of our psyche.
    I'll do it:
    The English love both cricket and incest porn.
    Watching one’s step mom being pounded by a big, hairy Australian could combine the two, with a healthy dose of masochism thrown in.
    yes, I enjoyed that one too
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    What will worry Downing Street is that this call for the PM to go comes after a couple of days of speaking to constituents. We’ve been reporting today that others are hardening their views.

    Will more follow? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60005134 https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1482466532634599425
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    Don't forget Britain occupied the Swedish island of Hano for a couple of years. There's even a cemetery there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanö
    When was the last time England went to war with Norway? 1066?

    Scotland of course had the invasion of Haakon IV in 1263.
    Norway was part of Denmark up to the end of the Napoleonic Wars and Denmark was on Napoleon’s side, at least until Nelson destroyed their navy.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Why? Fuck Sweden.

    In the spirit of AUKUS we should only defend English-speaking nations. Tho I guess that, awkwardly, includes Sweden

    Technically as well as defending Australia and the USA, we are obliged to defend France too as it is also in NATO with us unlike Sweden
    I really - honestly - wonder if NATO has any reality left at all. Would we go to war to defend France? Why? They’ve acted like utter c*nuts throughout Brexit and continue to do so. They literally want us to fail as a nation so Brexit can be seen as a disaster. Fuck them

    I’m perfectly serious. NATO Is brain dead (as, ironically, macron pointed out)

    British soldiers should only die defending AUKUS states and possibly Italy coz I like the Italians
    Personally I don't see why we should offer much more than tea and sympathy to any other country that gets invaded - unless it's a tiny African state and the invader can be repelled by sending whatever we've got these days that passes for a gunboat. I mean what is it all in aid of? We get in trouble every time we do it.
  • ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    Don't forget Britain occupied the Swedish island of Hano for a couple of years. There's even a cemetery there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanö
    When was the last time England went to war with Norway? 1066?

    Scotland of course had the invasion of Haakon IV in 1263.
    Stretching things of course, you could say Britain "occupied" Norway in 1945, after the Nazis surrendered.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Doomsday
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    IanB2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    I don't think the the Sutton Hoo find was an invasion ship. It was a ship burial.
    And Anglo-Saxon
    The Wuffings of East Anglia were quite probably from Sweden. The helmet and shield from the burial have their closest examples in the Vendel period finds from Sweden, and some items were probably made there.
    Sure. But Sutton Hoo wasn’t an invasion ship.
  • .

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Russian submarines very active in Baltic.

    Where are you finding out about such activity?
    No 1 story in Swedish news.

    Troops being sent to Gotland and tanks in the harbour town and capital Visby.
    The Russians along the Ukranian border may well be most effective as a distraction of course.

    Does Sweden have any defensive understandings with any of the Baltic states?
    What would the Russians have to gain by attacking Sweden ?

    Sweden ?
    Or what’s left of it should they really be serious.

    More likely a bloody nose.
    Most likely it’s just Putin dicking around for the lolz.
    It makes sense that Putin would try a few distractions ahead of whatever he has planned.

    He’s such an attention seeking nob. Ukraine still seems most likely. Would be good - and highly unlikely - if the West were to do something unexpected and a bit left field in return. We are too predictable: sanctions on a few oligarchs, kick them out of one or two international organisations. Funding a deadly Ukrainian guerrilla insurgency would of course be effective but morally dubious. But a bit of creativity is certainly called for.
    There was a suggestion in one article that we might launch retaliatory cyber attacks. One of the advantages of those is that they have a certain degree of deniability that seizing Kaliningrad lacks.

    If Putin turned off the supply of gas to Europe, then being able to shut down the Russian gas industry with cyber attacks would be interesting.
    This from Reuters

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sweden-boosts-patrols-gotland-amid-nato-russia-tensions-2022-01-13/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland can do one, as well

    Ireland has no effective air defence capability. This is provided by the RAF.
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland can do one, as well

    Ireland has no effective air defence capability. This is provided by the RAF.
    And we should withdraw it. See where their endless, shrill Britophobia gets them then.

    At various points during Covid Irish media was practically exulting over the high levels of UK deaths
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,997
    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    Don't forget Britain occupied the Swedish island of Hano for a couple of years. There's even a cemetery there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanö
    When was the last time England went to war with Norway? 1066?

    Scotland of course had the invasion of Haakon IV in 1263.
    We declared war on Sweden in 1717, taking the Russian side in the Great Norfthern War.

    (We seem to have changed sides on Charles XII's death though).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    Quite striking from Dominic Lawson: not a natural opponent of the government or PM. For my part, I shall wait for Sue Gray's report before passing judgement. #strangetimes https://twitter.com/nickmacpherson2/status/1482466534178136064/photo/1
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    edited January 2022
    Eabhal said:

    I'd also enjoy the confused look on @StuartDickson as the Black Watch fought, under the butcher's apron, to defend his lake house from the Russians.

    Much as I value the martial heritage of Scots, I fear for the chances of the several hundred strong battalion of the Black Watch against the 1st Guards Tank Army.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    HYUFD said:

    Perhaps Boris needs to copy canoe man and go to Panama :-)

    If Boris is looking for a country tiny enough to win a quick war against within a few weeks to get a poll bounce, Panama might do
    A man, a plan, a canal? Able HYUFD was, ere he saw elba
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Russian submarines very active in Baltic.

    Where are you finding out about such activity?
    No 1 story in Swedish news.

    Troops being sent to Gotland and tanks in the harbour town and capital Visby.
    The Russians along the Ukranian border may well be most effective as a distraction of course.

    Does Sweden have any defensive understandings with any of the Baltic states?
    They regularly conduct exercises together and have various defence cooperation arrangements, eg Swedish personnel in NATO cybercentre in Tallinn and NATO’s centre for strategic communication in Latvia.

    Sweden and Finland have long history of common defence procurement/development projects.
  • Leon said:

    Ireland can do one, as well

    Er, they speak English there too, you know (only a small minority use Irish as their every day language).
  • HYUFD said:

    Perhaps Boris needs to copy canoe man and go to Panama :-)

    If Boris is looking for a country tiny enough to win a quick war against within a few weeks to get a poll bounce, Panama might do
    Good look with trying to take Southern Panama quickly. Darién Gap, its crazy jungle, no roads and stuff full of what's left of the FARC types and drug cartels.
    Have a friend (seeing him for coffee tomorrow) who actually crossed the Darien Gap when he was a kid with his family.

    Says it was indeed one heck of a trip. In more ways than one.
  • I don’t like this poll. It just doesn’t seem right to me.

    I expected it to be quite a similar margin gap reported between main parties from opinium, I thought maybe 9, because there’s two traits I’ve noted about this pollster polls in Observer, period when everyone else showed bigger Tory leads over Labour, this polling didn’t, but also didn’t change as markedly between each poll, as others do, certainly you gov do leap about. Obviously it’s all there for you to analyse for your own conclusions. But recent polls show Tory drop, after an uptick for Tories in holiday time polls.

    We saw from the by elections before Christmas libdems can attract Tory votes Labour just can’t. So with Tories declining, why only labour increasing and libdems jumping backwards in this polling?

    This poll has Labour increasing whilst the libdems drop into single figures - and I am just calling that plain wrong and an outlier in the current climate. To be fair all company’s can suffer a rouge poll now again, not really their fault? and fair enough time will prove me right or wrong if they report differently next time, time after, and the figures from this one don’t sit right in middle of sequence. But whilst voters are deserting scandal hit Tories this poll has labour gaining and the libdems going back into single figures - I’ll bake a tofu hat cake and eat it if that is accurate. More likely its 2 off Tory’s and 1 off Labour on the Lib Dems right now, for 40, 29, 12.

    ☹️

    Trust the swarm.

    Even if you compare the same pollster, each reading could fairly easily be two points out either way. That means you can get a change of plus or minus four points without anything really changing.

    Step back and look at all the polls together, from a distance, and the landscape is much clearer.



    You can see the Paterson Plunge, the little drift upwards when Christmas didn't turn into a disaster, and the next fall is beginning to show in the trendline.
    Nope. You can’t placate me. I’m cheesed off by that bad poll and I’m going to bed early 😠
    Fair enough. Though glancing at the graph again, that 27% Boris got this week is worse than Keir got in his vaccine bounce doldrums, or Jez got while we were all waiting for him to finally go away.

    For now, it's one poll and looks a bit outlier-y, but that's bad.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland can do one, as well

    Ireland has no effective air defence capability. This is provided by the RAF.
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland can do one, as well

    Ireland has no effective air defence capability. This is provided by the RAF.
    And we should withdraw it. See where their endless, shrill Britophobia gets them then.

    At various points during Covid Irish media was practically exulting over the high levels of UK deaths
    Ireland like Sweden is not in NATO, so technically we also no longer have an obligation to defend it. Nor is it a Commonwealth realm either. Though we could still choose to
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,997
    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    Don't forget Britain occupied the Swedish island of Hano for a couple of years. There's even a cemetery there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanö
    When was the last time England went to war with Norway? 1066?

    Scotland of course had the invasion of Haakon IV in 1263.
    1807, Battle of Copenhagen, Denmark & Norway were one country.
  • Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Why? Fuck Sweden.

    In the spirit of AUKUS we should only defend English-speaking nations. Tho I guess that, awkwardly, includes Sweden

    Technically as well as defending Australia and the USA, we are obliged to defend France too as it is also in NATO with us unlike Sweden
    I really - honestly - wonder if NATO has any reality left at all. Would we go to war to defend France? Why? They’ve acted like utter c*nuts throughout Brexit and continue to do so. They literally want us to fail as a nation so Brexit can be seen as a disaster. Fuck them

    I’m perfectly serious. NATO Is brain dead (as, ironically, macron pointed out)

    British soldiers should only die defending AUKUS states and possibly Italy coz I like the Italians
    Because they like the rest of the world think this country's descent into a pathetic caricature of the 1950s is just that?

    Pathetic.

  • NEW: Carrie Johnson pictured breaking Covid rules hugging friend at West End club

    The Prime Minister’s wife ‘regrets the momentary lapse in judgement' after breaching social distancing guidelines

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1482466659612905472
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Putin invading Sweden would be a genius move by the year 2022. How could it possibly outdo 2021 for drama?

    Aha!

    I like the Swedes but unfortunately for them Sweden is not in NATO.

    So if Putin invaded Sweden we would have no obligation to defend them.

    Perhaps Stuart Dickson can mobilise a quick militia or else take a crash course in Russian!
    Being occupied by a big, ugly, ignorant neighbour isn’t so bad. Lots of wee nations put up with it. For a while.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    IanB2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    I don't think the the Sutton Hoo find was an invasion ship. It was a ship burial.
    And Anglo-Saxon
    Although it has a lot of similarities to Swedish royal ship burials of the same period, to the extent that some historians have speculated that the Wuffingas dynasty buried at Sutton Hoo (there are about twenty barrows in total there) might have been of Swedish origin.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Why? Fuck Sweden.

    In the spirit of AUKUS we should only defend English-speaking nations. Tho I guess that, awkwardly, includes Sweden

    Technically as well as defending Australia and the USA, we are obliged to defend France too as it is also in NATO with us unlike Sweden
    I really - honestly - wonder if NATO has any reality left at all. Would we go to war to defend France? Why? They’ve acted like utter c*nuts throughout Brexit and continue to do so. They literally want us to fail as a nation so Brexit can be seen as a disaster. Fuck them

    I’m perfectly serious. NATO Is brain dead (as, ironically, macron pointed out)

    British soldiers should only die defending AUKUS states and possibly Italy coz I like the Italians
    Because they like the rest of the world think this country's descent into a pathetic caricature of the 1950s is just that?

    Pathetic.

    Impressively incisive for just your third post, Bob
  • Carrie Johnson, the Prime Minister's wife, was photographed breaking Covid-19 social distancing rules days after the public was warned that it was "critical" to follow the guidance, The Telegraph can disclose.

    Despite Boris Johnson's warning that "you should keep your distance from anyone you don't live with", Mrs Johnson, 33, was pictured embracing a close friend while the pair celebrated the friend's engagement at a private members' club in London's West End.

    The pair seemingly shared a joke as they posed for the camera while sitting next to each other on a sofa on the club's outdoor roof terrace.

    Mrs Johnson appeared to have her arm around the friend, Anna Pinder, and one of her legs draped over her leg. Ms Pinder's hands were clasped together in her lap.

    The embrace, seemingly initiated by Mrs Johnson, stands in stark contrast to the isolation rules members of the public rigidly stuck to.

    People have been angered by allegations of parties being held at Number 10 despite coronavirus restrictions, including a young woman who abided by guidance which prevented her from hugging her grandmother at her mother's funeral.

    At the time, in September 2020, ministers had warned that Britain was facing a second wave of infections. The law prevented people from gathering in groups of more than six, other than for education, work, weddings and funerals.

    But the Prime Minister, together with senior ministers and health officials, stressed that adhering to separate social distancing guidance was key to slowing the spread of Covid-19 and avoiding a second national lockdown.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/15/carrie-johnson-pictured-breaking-covid-rules-hugging-friend/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2022

    NEW: Carrie Johnson pictured breaking Covid rules hugging friend at West End club

    The Prime Minister’s wife ‘regrets the momentary lapse in judgement' after breaching social distancing guidelines

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1482466659612905472

    That's a super weak story, when you see what the guidance was i.e it was fine to meet people outside fine (which it was in a small group), you just advised not to hug them.

    There has be to something better.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    🔴 Michael Gove has been accused of embarking on "manoeuvres" after it emerged that he courted dozens of Tory backbenchers at a dinner hosted by the MP who ran his last leadership bid
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/15/michael-gove-said-leadership-manoeuvres-courting-tory-mps-dinner/?utm_content=politics&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1642278362
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,785

    NEW: Carrie Johnson pictured breaking Covid rules hugging friend at West End club

    The Prime Minister’s wife ‘regrets the momentary lapse in judgement' after breaching social distancing guidelines

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1482466659612905472

    That can't be it, can it?

    Superb expectation management from Bozo.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Farooq said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    I don't think the the Sutton Hoo find was an invasion ship. It was a ship burial.
    Hmmm… so a ship manufactured in Mälardalen was buried in Suffolk? It’s a tricky one. Sean’s aliens must have transported it there. There is no other reasonable explanation.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    NEW: Carrie Johnson pictured breaking Covid rules hugging friend at West End club

    The Prime Minister’s wife ‘regrets the momentary lapse in judgement' after breaching social distancing guidelines

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1482466659612905472

    Struggling to give a F about this.
  • ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    Don't forget Britain occupied the Swedish island of Hano for a couple of years. There's even a cemetery there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanö
    When was the last time England went to war with Norway? 1066?

    Scotland of course had the invasion of Haakon IV in 1263.
    1807, Battle of Copenhagen, Denmark & Norway were one country.
    Britain occupied Norway in 1945, albeit in a "friendly" way.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Doomsday
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    NOT A NEW POLL but The FindoutnowUK poll from 13 Jan

    LAB: 41% (+3)
    CON: 27% (-3)
    LDM: 11% (+1)
    GRN: 8% (-2)
    RFM: 5% (-2)

    Gives this startling map:

    image

    LAB: 344 (+142)
    CON: 198 (-167)
    SNP: 57 (+9)
    LDM: 25 (+14)
    PLC: 5 (+1)
    GRN: 1 (=)
    Others: 1 (+1)

    Changes w/ GE2019.
  • .

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Russian submarines very active in Baltic.

    Where are you finding out about such activity?
    No 1 story in Swedish news.

    Troops being sent to Gotland and tanks in the harbour town and capital Visby.
    The Russians along the Ukranian border may well be most effective as a distraction of course.

    Does Sweden have any defensive understandings with any of the Baltic states?
    What would the Russians have to gain by attacking Sweden ?

    Sweden ?
    Or what’s left of it should they really be serious.

    More likely a bloody nose.
    Most likely it’s just Putin dicking around for the lolz.
    It makes sense that Putin would try a few distractions ahead of whatever he has planned.

    He’s such an attention seeking nob. Ukraine still seems most likely. Would be good - and highly unlikely - if the West were to do something unexpected and a bit left field in return. We are too predictable: sanctions on a few oligarchs, kick them out of one or two international organisations. Funding a deadly Ukrainian guerrilla insurgency would of course be effective but morally dubious. But a bit of creativity is certainly called for.
    There was a suggestion in one article that we might launch retaliatory cyber attacks. One of the advantages of those is that they have a certain degree of deniability that seizing Kaliningrad lacks.

    If Putin turned off the supply of gas to Europe, then being able to shut down the Russian gas industry with cyber attacks would be interesting.
    This from Reuters

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sweden-boosts-patrols-gotland-amid-nato-russia-tensions-2022-01-13/
    Patrolling waters off Gotland not only sends a PR message, it's a positive help to NATO and Baltic States.

    Note that Russian sea & air incursions into Swedish waters & airspace are NOT a rare thing. Nor are Swedish counter-measures.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,336

    I don’t like this poll. It just doesn’t seem right to me.

    I expected it to be quite a similar margin gap reported between main parties from opinium, I thought maybe 9, because there’s two traits I’ve noted about this pollster polls in Observer, period when everyone else showed bigger Tory leads over Labour, this polling didn’t, but also didn’t change as markedly between each poll, as others do, certainly you gov do leap about. Obviously it’s all there for you to analyse for your own conclusions. But recent polls show Tory drop, after an uptick for Tories in holiday time polls.

    We saw from the by elections before Christmas libdems can attract Tory votes Labour just can’t. So with Tories declining, why only labour increasing and libdems jumping backwards in this polling?

    This poll has Labour increasing whilst the libdems drop into single figures - and I am just calling that plain wrong and an outlier in the current climate. To be fair all company’s can suffer a rouge poll now again, not really their fault? and fair enough time will prove me right or wrong if they report differently next time, time after, and the figures from this one don’t sit right in middle of sequence. But whilst voters are deserting scandal hit Tories this poll has labour gaining and the libdems going back into single figures - I’ll bake a tofu hat cake and eat it if that is accurate. More likely its 2 off Tory’s and 1 off Labour on the Lib Dems right now, for 40, 29, 12.

    ☹️

    I don't think it matters very much here. The idea is to provide an alternative to the tories that they feel safe with. I think the tories aren't scared of starmer/Labour anymore and they will vote for them in tory/Labour seats. They are likely to vote anti tory in other seats as well I think if there was an election tomorrow we would see a 1997 event.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Russian submarines very active in Baltic.

    Where are you finding out about such activity?
    No 1 story in Swedish news.

    Troops being sent to Gotland and tanks in the harbour town and capital Visby.
    The Russians along the Ukranian border may well be most effective as a distraction of course.

    Does Sweden have any defensive understandings with any of the Baltic states?
    They regularly conduct exercises together and have various defence cooperation arrangements, eg Swedish personnel in NATO cybercentre in Tallinn and NATO’s centre for strategic communication in Latvia.

    Sweden and Finland have long history of common defence procurement/development projects.
    Putin 'helping out' a Baltic state in need is fairly plausible. A complete defeat of Nato in a day or so and then stop. Let the chips fly.

    Unsettling Sweden would fit in with that.

    Seizing Gotland would too.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Kaboom.

    Boris Johnson is deader than a DODO, you cannot recover from these results

    63% now think the Prime Minister should resign, nearly three times the 22% who think he should remain as Conservative Party leader.

    48% of those who voted Conservative in 2019 think he should go, with just 37% thinking he should stay.

    He’s toast. There’s no way back from this. Not for the Tories.
    I may try and work in a reference to a niche website into one of tomorrow's headers.
    Would this be one where you’d find the odd Stepmom or two ?
    Possibly.
    What I don't understand is why no Stepdads ever feature. Very non PC.
    You don't watch a lot of porn, do you?
    No, actually. Not since that weird Yugoslav film about orgone energy as a student, I think.
    I'm not sure I can let that one pass without a bemused look.
    Found it!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W.R.:_Mysteries_of_the_Organism

    I misread that as Mysteries of the Orgasm.

    Having read the article, that would, still make sense...
    Have you read much Reich Dr Y?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pllRW9wETzw
    I will confess the answer is 'no'...
    You will like this 🙂

    The best quote I have read about an Orgon Accumulator is from the New York professor who forked out to buy one for his wife.
    “Do you think it actually works, Professor?”
    “Of course it doesn’t work! But she sits in that box for endless hours, and it’s so beautifully peaceful and quiet…”
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Bloody hell. When I said Putin was thinking of himself as a new Peter the Great, I didn't think that might involve war with Sweden. That would be being rather too literal.
    Russians have a bit of a thing about Sweden. We annoy them.

    Anyone annoy the English?
    Some try...
    I’m very trying.
  • NEW: Carrie Johnson pictured breaking Covid rules hugging friend at West End club

    The Prime Minister’s wife ‘regrets the momentary lapse in judgement' after breaching social distancing guidelines

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1482466659612905472

    Struggling to give a F about this.
    In the scheme of things this is a non story
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,997

    Farooq said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    I don't think the the Sutton Hoo find was an invasion ship. It was a ship burial.
    Hmmm… so a ship manufactured in Mälardalen was buried in Suffolk? It’s a tricky one. Sean’s aliens must have transported it there. There is no other reasonable explanation.
    I am not sure we know the ship was manufactured in Sweden. But you can get a ship from Sweden to East Anglia by, er, sailing it. It doesn't have to be an invasion, and by the time Raedwald or whoever was buried you were a couple of generations along from the original settlers. So it would have been a consensual visit. Or a purchase.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,226
    Time for bed, the Sundays look a damp squib
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    Leon said:

    More hospitality anecdata, following on from this arvo


    Parkway in Camden is absolutely buzzing (and it is a cold if clear night - 4C)

    All the restaurants that were desolate last Saturday are bustling tonight, some of the pubs are spilling onto the pavements. A transformation.

    Great to see, but a little peculiar. I know business always picks up from the famously dead first two weeks of Jan (even without plague) but this is a quintupling of customers.

    The rules have not changed one iota, so this is a mood change. People think it's all over, they don't care any more, everyone who wants a jab has been jabbed. Enough. The first thing PM Sunak should do is get rid of the last restrictions. Next weekend

    Deep irony that Boris blows it: just as Britain gets in a Borisovian mood of boosterism and bonhomie

    Godalming anecdata - 100% masks in Sainsbury. Ate out with a friend in a pub - half full, staff not masked, some customers masked when they came in, took them off once they sat down. General impression here is that people are relaxing for social life but keeping up masks where it doesn't inconvenience them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    NEW: Carrie Johnson pictured breaking Covid rules hugging friend at West End club

    The Prime Minister’s wife ‘regrets the momentary lapse in judgement' after breaching social distancing guidelines

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1482466659612905472

    Struggling to give a F about this.
    Yes, the bathos is striking

    Tho if one were truly bored one could be titillated by the hint of sapphism.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Bloody hell. When I said Putin was thinking of himself as a new Peter the Great, I didn't think that might involve war with Sweden. That would be being rather too literal.
    Russians have a bit of a thing about Sweden. We annoy them.

    Anyone annoy the English?
    Nobody, everybody loves us, it is why English is the lingua franca of the world.
    I asked if anyone annoys the English, not if you lot annoy other peoples.
    The French irritate, the Americans can chafe, the Germans sometimes exasperate. We don't give a fuck about the Scots. Sorry
    The Seany doth protest too much.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    I don't think the the Sutton Hoo find was an invasion ship. It was a ship burial.
    Also I’m pretty sure that some of the invading Vikings/Norsemen came from “Sweden” as well as Denmark and Norway, so it’s a stretch to say we’ve never been at war

    It’s just that, remarkably, for once, it was someone attacking us rather than us invading them
    Denmark in that period stretched into what’s now southern Sweden (Scania), and remained so until the 17th century. The Swedish vikings of the period were more focused to the east, and effectively founded what is now both Ukraine and Russia (don’t tell Putin).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Why? Fuck Sweden.

    In the spirit of AUKUS we should only defend English-speaking nations. Tho I guess that, awkwardly, includes Sweden

    Technically as well as defending Australia and the USA, we are obliged to defend France too as it is also in NATO with us unlike Sweden
    I really - honestly - wonder if NATO has any reality left at all. Would we go to war to defend France? Why? They’ve acted like utter c*nuts throughout Brexit and continue to do so. They literally want us to fail as a nation so Brexit can be seen as a disaster. Fuck them

    I’m perfectly serious. NATO Is brain dead (as, ironically, macron pointed out)

    British soldiers should only die defending AUKUS states and possibly Italy coz I like the Italians
    Yeah, it is why we should leave NATO. It is one of the few things left to do from Michael Foots manifesto.
  • With all this talk of us leaping to Sweden's defence (and Australia's and Canada's and America's) we'd better hope it happens before Boris's defence cuts kick in.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56477900
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2022

    NEW: Carrie Johnson pictured breaking Covid rules hugging friend at West End club

    The Prime Minister’s wife ‘regrets the momentary lapse in judgement' after breaching social distancing guidelines

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1482466659612905472

    Struggling to give a F about this.
    As stories go, its the equivalent of saying we got em, we got em doing 34mph in a 30mph, when we know all round there has people who been drunk driving, swerving all over the place, crashing into roadside furniture day in day out.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: Carrie Johnson broke Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482470743204057094/photo/1
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    Perhaps Boris needs to copy canoe man and go to Panama :-)

    If Boris is looking for a country tiny enough to win a quick war against within a few weeks to get a poll bounce, Panama might do
    Boris’s Darien scheme. I like it.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    NEW: Carrie Johnson pictured breaking Covid rules hugging friend at West End club

    The Prime Minister’s wife ‘regrets the momentary lapse in judgement' after breaching social distancing guidelines

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1482466659612905472

    Struggling to give a F about this.
    As stories go, its the equivalent of saying we got em, we got em doing 34mph in a 30mph, when we know all round there has people been drunk driving, swerving all over the place, crashing into roadside furniture day in day out.
    Yeah, it's a bit meh tbh.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840

    NOT A NEW POLL but The FindoutnowUK poll from 13 Jan

    LAB: 41% (+3)
    CON: 27% (-3)
    LDM: 11% (+1)
    GRN: 8% (-2)
    RFM: 5% (-2)

    Gives this startling map:

    image

    LAB: 344 (+142)
    CON: 198 (-167)
    SNP: 57 (+9)
    LDM: 25 (+14)
    PLC: 5 (+1)
    GRN: 1 (=)
    Others: 1 (+1)

    Changes w/ GE2019.

    Hexham goes red.
    Is that an MRP?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Putin invading Sweden would be a genius move by the year 2022. How could it possibly outdo 2021 for drama?

    Aha!

    I like the Swedes but unfortunately for them Sweden is not in NATO.

    So if Putin invaded Sweden we would have no obligation to defend them.

    Perhaps Stuart Dickson can mobilise a quick militia or else take a crash course in Russian!
    Being occupied by a big, ugly, ignorant neighbour isn’t so bad. Lots of wee nations put up with it. For a while.
    300 years and counting. And when offered a chance to democratically overthrow your big, ugly, ignorant rulers - uniquely amongst the nations you said Er no thanks, we like them ruling over us
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    With all this talk of us leaping to Sweden's defence (and Australia's and Canada's and America's) we'd better hope it happens before Boris's defence cuts kick in.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56477900

    We are not obliged to defend Sweden as it is not in NATO but all other NATO members plus Australia thanks to the recent defence agreement are also all obliged to defend us
  • TimSTimS Posts: 9,169
    If France were being invaded (which is a preposterous idea anyway) then you could be sure the world would be in such a state that Britain, the US and every other power under the sun would be at war.

    But let’s get back to reality. Russia is not going to land troops in Gotland. The worst Sweden might get is a few rogue subs or threatening mig fly pasts. No, they’re going to spend their efforts creating yet more frozen conflicts in their former Soviet lands.
  • Farooq said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    I don't think the the Sutton Hoo find was an invasion ship. It was a ship burial.
    Hmmm… so a ship manufactured in Mälardalen was buried in Suffolk? It’s a tricky one. Sean’s aliens must have transported it there. There is no other reasonable explanation.
    I am not sure we know the ship was manufactured in Sweden. But you can get a ship from Sweden to East Anglia by, er, sailing it. It doesn't have to be an invasion, and by the time Raedwald or whoever was buried you were a couple of generations along from the original settlers. So it would have been a consensual visit. Or a purchase.
    Vikings were rather famous for not just sailing across seas and oceans, but also FAR up rivers.

    Russia being a prime example in this regard, indeed Kievian Rus was founded by Vikings or close enough.

    Which is apt right now, given apparent connection between Gotland and eastern Ukraine
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited January 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: Carrie Johnson broke Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482470743204057094/photo/1

    As has been commented on, this a very weak story in the scheme of things and if this is the best the Sundays can do then No 10 will breath a sigh off relief
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088

    Leon said:

    More hospitality anecdata, following on from this arvo


    Parkway in Camden is absolutely buzzing (and it is a cold if clear night - 4C)

    All the restaurants that were desolate last Saturday are bustling tonight, some of the pubs are spilling onto the pavements. A transformation.

    Great to see, but a little peculiar. I know business always picks up from the famously dead first two weeks of Jan (even without plague) but this is a quintupling of customers.

    The rules have not changed one iota, so this is a mood change. People think it's all over, they don't care any more, everyone who wants a jab has been jabbed. Enough. The first thing PM Sunak should do is get rid of the last restrictions. Next weekend

    Deep irony that Boris blows it: just as Britain gets in a Borisovian mood of boosterism and bonhomie

    Godalming anecdata - 100% masks in Sainsbury. Ate out with a friend in a pub - half full, staff not masked, some customers masked when they came in, took them off once they sat down. General impression here is that people are relaxing for social life but keeping up masks where it doesn't inconvenience them.
    Either that or they're tolerating the rules but will burn their masks the nanosecond that the rules get junked.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,997
    rpjs said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    I don't think the the Sutton Hoo find was an invasion ship. It was a ship burial.
    Also I’m pretty sure that some of the invading Vikings/Norsemen came from “Sweden” as well as Denmark and Norway, so it’s a stretch to say we’ve never been at war

    It’s just that, remarkably, for once, it was someone attacking us rather than us invading them
    Denmark in that period stretched into what’s now southern Sweden (Scania), and remained so until the 17th century. The Swedish vikings of the period were more focused to the east, and effectively founded what is now both Ukraine and Russia (don’t tell Putin).
    The Swedes like to believe that Swedish vikings were peaceful chaps, just going to Novgorod to trade and found the Rus state.

    But there is plenty of evidence that Swedes took part in general Viking-ing. There is a tombstone of a Swedish viking in the archaeology museum in Stockholm, celebrating the fact that he came to England and "took geld three times".
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland can do one, as well

    Ireland has no effective air defence capability. This is provided by the RAF.
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland can do one, as well

    Ireland has no effective air defence capability. This is provided by the RAF.
    And we should withdraw it. See where their endless, shrill Britophobia gets them then.

    At various points during Covid Irish media was practically exulting over the high levels of UK deaths
    Ireland like Sweden is not in NATO, so technically we also no longer have an obligation to defend it. Nor is it a Commonwealth realm either. Though we could still choose to
    We'd be nuts to allow the Russian Navy use of Irish ports, so it would be in our self-interest to defend Ireland from any potential antagonist.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    King Cnut says, WTF?

    Battle of Helgeå
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Helgeå
    I said war. You have linked to the Scandinavian equivalent of a clan skirmish.

    Besides, “Sweden” didn’t even exist then.
This discussion has been closed.