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The top pollster from GE2019 has LAB lead in double figures – politicalbetting.com

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  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Leon said:

    ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    They can't fight the future, tho. Kids just don't watch BBC. My daughter is 15, she probably consumes an hour of BBC output a month. Is that worth £160 a year? No

    She watches Youtube, Netflix, TikTok. She watches old programmes on streaming services. "Downton" is as close as she gets to watching traditional TV (I think she consumes it via YouTube)

    Her friends watch even less. Dorries is right. It is over for the BBC as it stands. The Culture War thing is a colourful sideshow (and it has maybe accelerated the BBC's demise, mildly). The BBC model is simply broken
    Scheduled TV is broken. It's over. It will be sport and genuinely huge news stories only from now on.
    Why the heck would you watch at a time set by someone else?
  • Punning, so awesome you'd think it was me.


    Foot heads arms body is my all-time favourite headline.
  • Taz said:

    Just what we need with China poised to invade Taiwan and Russia poised to invade Ukraine, or the part of it they haven’t annexed. Weak, inept, leadership in the west and infighting in the Tory regime in westminster. What a time to be alive.

    Ironically, it would help in the immediate term if China were to sail northwards so Putin has to withdraw troops from near the Ukraine back to the east, where they came from.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    edited January 2022

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Rafa sacked apparently.

    @dixiedean

    Roooooney!!!
    Would be a gamble.
    May well be. However. Look at the managers we've had since Moyes. Benitez, Ancelotti, Martinez, now Belgium, Koeman, went to Barcelona.
    None have had any success.
    Moreover. We need a profit of £25m this window not to fall foul of FFP.
    Rooney's done OK at Derby with zero cash and a transfer ban. It's astonishing they aren't bottom, and would be comfortable halfway without a deduction.
    We could do a lot worse. At least he'd get the fans onside for a bit.
    Is he loved at Everton? Didn’t he leave for Utd at a fairly early age?
    Not loved exactly.
    But he's a genuine Evertonian.
    One of our own. We couldn't accuse him of not caring. Which would be a start at least.
    Come to think of it. After today's shambles he could put his boots on.
    Would mine help, my concussion was only 59 years ago and I was a centre forward
    Ha ha.
    Not sure we could afford your salary!!
  • Eabhal said:

    Sweden is one of the few countries I'd be happy for us to help defend.

    Sweden is one of only a couple of countries En/GB/UK has never been at war with.

    (Well, if you ignore that the Sutton Hoo invasion ship was from what is now Sweden; plus a little administrative hiccup during the Napoleonic wars.)
    Don't forget Britain occupied the Swedish island of Hano for a couple of years. There's even a cemetery there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanö
    Subterfuge.
    Burlington
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Leon said:

    ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    They can't fight the future, tho. Kids just don't watch BBC. My daughter is 15, she probably consumes an hour of BBC output a month. Is that worth £160 a year? No

    She watches Youtube, Netflix, TikTok. She watches old programmes on streaming services. "Downton" is as close as she gets to watching traditional TV (I think she consumes it via YouTube)

    Her friends watch even less. Dorries is right. It is over for the BBC as it stands. The Culture War thing is a colourful sideshow (and it has maybe accelerated the BBC's demise, mildly). The BBC model is simply broken
    Anybody who interacts with kids knows the BBC just isn't relevant to them. And the licence fee is totally unenforceable in the days of 5G and broadband.

    The only people who get done for not paying licence fee are idiots who basically admit it to the powerless Capita run sales people.

    But the BBC won't reform.
    That Mail article is fecking genuine LOL.

    "there will be no more licence fee renewals as long as Boris is PM"

    ...so that's no more renewals in the, erm, check notes, next four months.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,243

    Punning, so awesome you'd think it was me.


    Foot heads arms body is my all-time favourite headline.
    Fog in Channel - Continent isolated
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited January 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    They can't fight the future, tho. Kids just don't watch BBC. My daughter is 15, she probably consumes an hour of BBC output a month. Is that worth £160 a year? No

    She watches Youtube, Netflix, TikTok. She watches old programmes on streaming services. "Downton" is as close as she gets to watching traditional TV (I think she consumes it via YouTube)

    Her friends watch even less. Dorries is right. It is over for the BBC as it stands. The Culture War thing is a colourful sideshow (and it has maybe accelerated the BBC's demise, mildly). The BBC model is simply broken
    Scheduled TV is broken. It's over. It will be sport and genuinely huge news stories only from now on.
    Why the heck would you watch at a time set by someone else?
    Viewership for mainstream tv news is tiny in the UK.

    The only live tv where there is viewership and money is sport. And even then the analysis is going to the likes of the Athletic rather than legacy media. I never watch any of analysis from MOTD, Sky Sports etc, once you have read the Athletic or others on the internet that offer specialist analysis there isn't any going back.
  • Scott_xP said:

    How is this supposed to work?

    In the coming days, the military will be put in charge of stopping the flow of illegal migrants across the Channel.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/is-boris-johnson-finally-sunk-t9ndpfwks

    They can't shoot them. They can't drown them. They can't pick them up and take them back.

    It is Boris's "go to" response. Call in the army to generate favourable headlines. Petrol, vaccines, now boats.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Scott_xP said:

    How is this supposed to work?

    In the coming days, the military will be put in charge of stopping the flow of illegal migrants across the Channel.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/is-boris-johnson-finally-sunk-t9ndpfwks

    They can't shoot them. They can't drown them. They can't pick them up and take them back.

    "The military will be deployed." Appears to be this government's magic wand.
    The mere invocation makes the issue go away without the bother of working out exactly how.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Scott_xP said:

    How is this supposed to work?

    In the coming days, the military will be put in charge of stopping the flow of illegal migrants across the Channel.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/is-boris-johnson-finally-sunk-t9ndpfwks

    They can't shoot them. They can't drown them. They can't pick them up and take them back.

    No doubt an order has gone out from the Downfall bunker. Every cabinet minister must do an eye catching, bonkers press release tonight.

    Quiet bat people.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    TimS said:

    Its the new chant of the culture warriors. The green agenda is now seen as a wedge between two view points. The 'don't care got mine' (the old) and the 'what happened to my future' (the young).

    IMO the general idea is to import whatever has fucked up America and try it here.
    They’re on to a loser with being anti-green. It’s a topic that trends inexorably, unstoppably in one direction. Even in the US we see this. Unlike say anti-lockdown sentiment which can be wrong at times, and right at others, a Cnut-like rejection of the inevitable on climate is doomed. As the Australians are slowly but surely discovering as their coal mines, one by one, lose sources of international finance.

    Not least because the decisions are all made internationally. We are all heading to net zero come what may, and any economy clinging on to old technology is going to be left behind.

    Plus it’s just not a salient culture war cleavage like it is in the US. The UK’s elderly Tory voting masses are by abc large quite fond of their green spaces and clean watercourses
    Its not green spaces that they're forming divisive talking points around. I recall from a podcast (the latest talking politics) that it is ideas like green subsidies, private transport vs public and the principle that the elite are hypocritical when championing carbon reducing initiatives.

    Its easy to say that green initiatives are making your bills higher and I'm sure people will be more susceptible to this as the bills rack up.

  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    Leon said:

    ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    They can't fight the future, tho. Kids just don't watch BBC. My daughter is 15, she probably consumes an hour of BBC output a month. Is that worth £160 a year? No

    She watches Youtube, Netflix, TikTok. She watches old programmes on streaming services. "Downton" is as close as she gets to watching traditional TV (I think she consumes it via YouTube)

    Her friends watch even less. Dorries is right. It is over for the BBC as it stands. The Culture War thing is a colourful sideshow (and it has maybe accelerated the BBC's demise, mildly). The BBC model is simply broken
    Anybody who interacts with kids knows the BBC just isn't relevant to them.
    Nope. CBeebies is massive. Delivered through iPads, not broadcast TV. Numberblocks, Hey Duggee and Go-Jetters have absolutely defined a generation of middle class kids.

    Personally I can’t remember the last time I watched anything on the BBC other than election coverage. It could well have been 10 years ago. But Junior is a devotee.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Seven Tory MPs now publicly calling for Boris Johnson to quit 👇🏼

    Roger Gale, Douglas Ross, Andrew Bridgen, Caroline Nokes, Will Wragg, Tobias Ellwood too.

    (Had texts from more this w/e very worried about anger of members/constituents. They believe it’s matter of when, not if)

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1482488392977981440
    https://twitter.com/timloughton/status/1482463465629495297
  • Scott_xP said:

    How is this supposed to work?

    In the coming days, the military will be put in charge of stopping the flow of illegal migrants across the Channel.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/is-boris-johnson-finally-sunk-t9ndpfwks

    They can't shoot them. They can't drown them. They can't pick them up and take them back.

    It is Boris's "go to" response. Call in the army to generate favourable headlines. Petrol, vaccines, now boats.
    How about we get the army to run whatever's left of the BBC?


  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited January 2022

    Leon said:

    ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    They can't fight the future, tho. Kids just don't watch BBC. My daughter is 15, she probably consumes an hour of BBC output a month. Is that worth £160 a year? No

    She watches Youtube, Netflix, TikTok. She watches old programmes on streaming services. "Downton" is as close as she gets to watching traditional TV (I think she consumes it via YouTube)

    Her friends watch even less. Dorries is right. It is over for the BBC as it stands. The Culture War thing is a colourful sideshow (and it has maybe accelerated the BBC's demise, mildly). The BBC model is simply broken
    Anybody who interacts with kids knows the BBC just isn't relevant to them. And the licence fee is totally unenforceable in the days of 5G and broadband.

    The only people who get done for not paying licence fee are idiots who basically admit it to the powerless Capita run sales people.

    But the BBC won't reform.
    The BBC still makes some good programmes, Strictly, the Attenborough documentaries, the Bodyguard etc.

    However if we are to continue with the license fee it should be open to all freeview broadcasters including ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 and their subsidiary channels Film4, ITV2 etc for programmes of cultural, scientific or current affairs or sporting interest.

    The BBC will then have to make popular enough soaps, dramas and reality shows to be funded by advertising revenue like Strictly and the Bodyguard as they get big audiences.
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Rafa sacked apparently.

    @dixiedean

    Roooooney!!!
    Would be a gamble.
    May well be. However. Look at the managers we've had since Moyes. Benitez, Ancelotti, Martinez, now Belgium, Koeman, went to Barcelona.
    None have had any success.
    Moreover. We need a profit of £25m this window not to fall foul of FFP.
    Rooney's done OK at Derby with zero cash and a transfer ban. It's astonishing they aren't bottom, and would be comfortable halfway without a deduction.
    We could do a lot worse. At least he'd get the fans onside for a bit.
    Is he loved at Everton? Didn’t he leave for Utd at a fairly early age?
    Not loved exactly.
    But he's a genuine Evertonian.
    One of our own. We couldn't accuse him of not caring. Which would be a start at least.
    Come to think of it. After today's shambles he could put his boots on.
    Would mine help, my concussion was only 59 years ago and I was a centre forward
    Ha ha.
    Not sure we could afford your salary!!
    I am not greedy
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    They can't fight the future, tho. Kids just don't watch BBC. My daughter is 15, she probably consumes an hour of BBC output a month. Is that worth £160 a year? No

    She watches Youtube, Netflix, TikTok. She watches old programmes on streaming services. "Downton" is as close as she gets to watching traditional TV (I think she consumes it via YouTube)

    Her friends watch even less. Dorries is right. It is over for the BBC as it stands. The Culture War thing is a colourful sideshow (and it has maybe accelerated the BBC's demise, mildly). The BBC model is simply broken
    Scheduled TV is broken. It's over. It will be sport and genuinely huge news stories only from now on.
    Why the heck would you watch at a time set by someone else?
    Viewership for mainstream tv news is tiny in the UK.

    The only live tv where there is viewership and money is sport. And even then the analysis is going to the likes of the Athletic rather than legacy media. I never watch any of analysis from MOTD, Sky Sports etc, once you have read the Athletic or others on the internet that offer specialist analysis there isn't any going back.
    Yeah. I meant huge news stories. Not your run of the mill daily stuff.
    Things like Boris announcing the first lockdown. US and UK elections. London Bridge. War.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Omnium said:

    GIN1138 said:
    Bercow's sins are all just beyond the Bercow line whereby they count. The man's completely innocent!
    Kathryn Stone, the parliamentary commissioner for standards, has judged Bercow guilty on 21 counts out of another 35 brought by Lord Lisvane, the former clerk of the Commons, and private secretaries Kate Emms and Angus Sinclair
    Absolutely dreadful decision by Starmer to give him membership of the Labour Party before the investigation had concluded... and absolutely the right decision by Boris and the government not to give him a seat in the Lords until all matters pertaining to these bullying allegations had been cleared up...
    Will labour throw him out
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, an invasion of "France" is not impossible at all. In fact, quite plausible


    But it would not be metropolitan France, that is highly unlikely, it would be French territories overseas, particularly Polynesia

    China has just built the world's biggest navy, and is still building. At some point it is going to use it, aggressively, otherwise why make it? Yes, Taiwan, but why not elsewhere?

    How about New Caledonia? Mineral rich, with oceanic resources, and with a restive population that almost wants independence, a temporary Chinese occupation could be scripted as a "liberation" from the dying French Empire. China then signs an exclusive trade Treaty with New New Caledonia, job done

    What could France do? Attack China with nukes from Savoy? It has a handful of ships in the Pacific and a few thousand troops. America would not help, nor the Aussies. China could do it in a weekend, as the Americans did to Grenada

    This, supposedly, is one reason Paris was SO aggrieved by the AUKUS deal. They wanted the Aussies as allies in the region to defend the French Pacific. They know it is endangered

    If China was stupid enough to do that it would shift France firmly into line with the USA, Australia and us in containing China. The EU would follow with France being the biggest EU military power.

    There would also likely be heavy EU tariffs therefore on Chinese imports to follow
    The Germans would never agree, they depend entirely on Chinese trade (in and out), just as they depend on Russian energy. You wildly over-estimate the EU's willingness or ability to fight

    China's interest in New Caledonia:


    "French authorities have observed with concern China’s growing presence across the region from the Indian Ocean to the South Pacific. China’s 2017 inauguration of a military base in Djibouti was a wake-up call for France, which remains anxious about Beijing’s expanding military reach. During a visit to New Caledonia in 2018, French President Emmanuel Macron warned that China’s mounting influence in the South Pacific could “reduce our freedoms and opportunities.”

    "Beijing is especially interested in New Caledonia’s resources, as it imports 55 percent of the nickel produced on the archipelago. The French Navy is dealing with China’s attempt to engineer a fait accompli in the South and East China Seas to impose its territorial claims. Adm. Pierre Vandier, chief of the French Navy, recently denounced Beijing’s “asphyxiating strategy,” explaining that French “vessels were systematically followed, sometimes forced to maneuver in front of Chinese ships to avoid a collision, in defiance of the rules of freedom of navigation.”"

    China is to France in the Indo-Pacific as Japan was to Britain in about 1940. The rising Asian power eyes a weakening European power. Except that China is much mightier than Japan in 1940, and France is much weaker than Britain in 1940

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    👀 And a knighthood for Gavin Williamson to “keep him quiet”. Tory insiders have long claimed the ex-chief whip knows too many of the skeletons still in PM’s cupboard.
    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1482489139903746055
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    ydoethur said:

    Labour have a lead of 43% - 33% in "All seats Labour has lost since 2005" in this Opinium poll.

    Given that would include 40 seats in Scotland where they are now pretty much nowhere, that must mean a huge lead in England.
    Spot on.

    The details in these polls are much, much worse for the Conservatives than the headline figures.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Rafa sacked apparently.

    @dixiedean

    Roooooney!!!
    Would be a gamble.
    May well be. However. Look at the managers we've had since Moyes. Benitez, Ancelotti, Martinez, now Belgium, Koeman, went to Barcelona.
    None have had any success.
    Moreover. We need a profit of £25m this window not to fall foul of FFP.
    Rooney's done OK at Derby with zero cash and a transfer ban. It's astonishing they aren't bottom, and would be comfortable halfway without a deduction.
    We could do a lot worse. At least he'd get the fans onside for a bit.
    Is he loved at Everton? Didn’t he leave for Utd at a fairly early age?
    Not loved exactly.
    But he's a genuine Evertonian.
    One of our own. We couldn't accuse him of not caring. Which would be a start at least.
    Come to think of it. After today's shambles he could put his boots on.
    Would mine help, my concussion was only 59 years ago and I was a centre forward
    Ha ha.
    Not sure we could afford your salary!!
    I am not greedy
    A pie and a pint and you can play off Calvert Lewin.
    I'm sure you'd make more decisive runs than we saw today.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    They can't fight the future, tho. Kids just don't watch BBC. My daughter is 15, she probably consumes an hour of BBC output a month. Is that worth £160 a year? No

    She watches Youtube, Netflix, TikTok. She watches old programmes on streaming services. "Downton" is as close as she gets to watching traditional TV (I think she consumes it via YouTube)

    Her friends watch even less. Dorries is right. It is over for the BBC as it stands. The Culture War thing is a colourful sideshow (and it has maybe accelerated the BBC's demise, mildly). The BBC model is simply broken
    Anybody who interacts with kids knows the BBC just isn't relevant to them. And the licence fee is totally unenforceable in the days of 5G and broadband.

    The only people who get done for not paying licence fee are idiots who basically admit it to the powerless Capita run sales people.

    But the BBC won't reform.
    The BBC still makes some good programmes, Strictly, the Attenborough documentaries, the Bodyguard etc.

    However if we are to continue with the license fee it should be open to all freeview broadcasters including ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 and their subsidiary channels Film4, ITV2 etc for programmes of cultural, scientific or current affairs or sporting interest.

    The BBC will then have to make popular enough soaps, dramas and reality shows to be funded by advertising revenue like Strictly and the Bodyguard as they get big audiences.
    The core problem is the licence fee is totally unenforceable. Its a broken model.

    Sky are going totally streaming, so you don't even need a dish on the side of your house or be at the address where you are watching Sky (you didn't already with Sky Go, but that wasn't full HD).

    If you don't want to pay, there is basically nothing anybody can do. Capita have no power or ability to find out you are watching tv without a licence unless you admit it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    FPT

    This is going to be a popular policy.

    Labour’s @RachelReevesMP says @thefabians conference that a govt led by Keir Starmer would take firms who failed to deliver on PPE contracts during the Covid crisis to court so the Treasury gets the cash back

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1482389809469534216

    Shouldn't the Government be doing this anyway? Why wouldn't they? Breach of contract.
    I suspect that the contracts, if indeed they had them, were written in such haste and without watertight clauses allowing the government to get the money back, that any legal action would be doomed to failure.
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Rafa sacked apparently.

    @dixiedean

    Roooooney!!!
    Would be a gamble.
    May well be. However. Look at the managers we've had since Moyes. Benitez, Ancelotti, Martinez, now Belgium, Koeman, went to Barcelona.
    None have had any success.
    Moreover. We need a profit of £25m this window not to fall foul of FFP.
    Rooney's done OK at Derby with zero cash and a transfer ban. It's astonishing they aren't bottom, and would be comfortable halfway without a deduction.
    We could do a lot worse. At least he'd get the fans onside for a bit.
    Is he loved at Everton? Didn’t he leave for Utd at a fairly early age?
    Not loved exactly.
    But he's a genuine Evertonian.
    One of our own. We couldn't accuse him of not caring. Which would be a start at least.
    Come to think of it. After today's shambles he could put his boots on.
    Would mine help, my concussion was only 59 years ago and I was a centre forward
    Ha ha.
    Not sure we could afford your salary!!
    I am not greedy
    A pie and a pint and you can play off Calvert Lewin.
    I'm sure you'd make more decisive runs than we saw today.
    Deal and no signing on fee
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    ydoethur said:

    Labour have a lead of 43% - 33% in "All seats Labour has lost since 2005" in this Opinium poll.

    Given that would include 40 seats in Scotland where they are now pretty much nowhere, that must mean a huge lead in England.
    Spot on.

    The details in these polls are much, much worse for the Conservatives than the headline figures.
    I’ve seen it suggested - including here - that it is middle class voters in the south who are the most upset with the PM’s goings on.

    The polling detail suggests the opposite. Perhaps those who have had the tougher lockdown experience are more angry than the middle class office workers sipping their Chardonnay from their home offices?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    kle4 said:

    Well now.


    Yeah right. All hinges on what dodge means. I think we'll instead learn what Tory MP equivocating looks like.
    Yup. Bozza is going nowhere unless the PCP find someone to spearhead a putsch. No sign of that so far.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    edited January 2022

    Punning, so awesome you'd think it was me.


    Foot heads arms body is my all-time favourite headline.
    Fog in Channel - Continent isolated
    Took a little while to find, but my all-time favourite 'headline'

    https://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers/cover-647
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    edited January 2022
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Labour have a lead of 43% - 33% in "All seats Labour has lost since 2005" in this Opinium poll.

    Given that would include 40 seats in Scotland where they are now pretty much nowhere, that must mean a huge lead in England.
    Spot on.

    The details in these polls are much, much worse for the Conservatives than the headline figures.
    I’ve seen it suggested - including here - that it is middle class voters in the south who are the most upset with the PM’s goings on.

    The polling detail suggests the opposite. Perhaps those who have had the tougher lockdown experience are more angry than the middle class office workers sipping their Chardonnay from their home offices?
    We've heard from quite a few on here that a drinking culture whilst working still exists in certain industries.
    It isn't in call centres, supermarkets or on building sites. Let alone the NHS or education.
    After work in the pub, sure. But not during. That's instant dismissal. No arguments.
    So maybe it cut through more?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    It is a pretty sad state of affairs if Putin can send a couple of submarines in the general direction of Gotland and everyone concludes that Russia is about to invade Sweden. Why isn't Sweden better prepared for this type of test?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Labour have a lead of 43% - 33% in "All seats Labour has lost since 2005" in this Opinium poll.

    Given that would include 40 seats in Scotland where they are now pretty much nowhere, that must mean a huge lead in England.
    Spot on.

    The details in these polls are much, much worse for the Conservatives than the headline figures.
    I’ve seen it suggested - including here - that it is middle class voters in the south who are the most upset with the PM’s goings on.

    The polling detail suggests the opposite. Perhaps those who have had the tougher lockdown experience are more angry than the middle class office workers sipping their Chardonnay from their home offices?
    Agreed. Con VI in the SE (outwith London) has been tremendous. They are building up support where they really don’t need it. The North is totally gone. The key is the Midlands: Labour have a clear lead for now, but swingback still feasible.
  • ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    Mrs Thatcher greatly harmed British television because she was annoyed at ITV and mistrusted the BBC. So why shouldn't this lot have a go?
    /
    ITV? I thought she was pissed at the Beeb because of their coverage of the Falklands?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    Tuesday. The assailants next key reveal is Tuesday afternoon.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Knowing Boris he’d be snorting coke and shagging his new mistress as British troops were being slaughtered on the streets of Ulaanbaatar.

    One rule for plebs, another for Boris.
    They wouldn't be slaughtered there. He'd send them to the wrong place and they'd be slaughtered in Addis Ababa instead.
    Fair point.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Punning, so awesome you'd think it was me.


    Foot heads arms body is my all-time favourite headline.
    Nah. Good as it is, the best headline ever was in the P&J the day after Inverness Caledonian Thistle beat Celtic.

    Super Caley go ballistic, Celtic are atrocious.

    Just perfect.
    That was The Sun.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited January 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    They can't fight the future, tho. Kids just don't watch BBC. My daughter is 15, she probably consumes an hour of BBC output a month. Is that worth £160 a year? No

    She watches Youtube, Netflix, TikTok. She watches old programmes on streaming services. "Downton" is as close as she gets to watching traditional TV (I think she consumes it via YouTube)

    Her friends watch even less. Dorries is right. It is over for the BBC as it stands. The Culture War thing is a colourful sideshow (and it has maybe accelerated the BBC's demise, mildly). The BBC model is simply broken
    Anybody who interacts with kids knows the BBC just isn't relevant to them. And the licence fee is totally unenforceable in the days of 5G and broadband.

    The only people who get done for not paying licence fee are idiots who basically admit it to the powerless Capita run sales people.

    But the BBC won't reform.
    The BBC still makes some good programmes, Strictly, the Attenborough documentaries, the Bodyguard etc.

    However if we are to continue with the license fee it should be open to all freeview broadcasters including ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 and their subsidiary channels Film4, ITV2 etc for programmes of cultural, scientific or current affairs or sporting interest.

    The BBC will then have to make popular enough soaps, dramas and reality shows to be funded by advertising revenue like Strictly and the Bodyguard as they get big audiences.
    The core problem is the licence fee is totally unenforceable. Its a broken model.

    Sky are going totally streaming, so you don't even need a dish on the side of your house or be at the address where you are watching Sky (you didn't already with Sky Go, but that wasn't full HD).

    If you don't want to pay, there is basically nothing anybody can do. Capita have no power or ability to find out you are watching tv without a licence unless you admit it.
    It would only apply to freeview channels so if you only ever watched Sky having paid for it or a paid subscription service like Netflix or Amazon Prime you would not have to pay it.

    The government would however give Capita full powers to track and fine anyone watching freeview having not paid the licence fee
  • Punning, so awesome you'd think it was me.


    Foot heads arms body is my all-time favourite headline.
    Nah. Good as it is, the best headline ever was in the P&J the day after Inverness Caledonian Thistle beat Celtic.

    Super Caley go ballistic, Celtic are atrocious.

    Just perfect.
    Also beautiful. But I love the alliteration in Foot Heads Arms Body
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    You've got a travelogue type book in you. Not sure it will entirely make you popular in many regions of the world, but will be an interesting read.

    Leonly Planet?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Punning, so awesome you'd think it was me.


    Foot heads arms body is my all-time favourite headline.
    Nah. Good as it is, the best headline ever was in the P&J the day after Inverness Caledonian Thistle beat Celtic.

    Super Caley go ballistic, Celtic are atrocious.

    Just perfect.
    That is extremely good (and probably unbeatable) but the Sun did a famous headline on a library strike in north east London/Essex:

    BOOK LACK IN ONGAR


    Which is also genius. Sun sub-editors are paid well for a reason
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Leon said:

    The big question is where is Gove in all this? Is he the key to everything and is he still tied to the hip with Cummings. Surely they will want to wait until they have the ideal replacement ready.

    All the hints say that Cummings wants Sunak. I'd be amazed if is actually Gove. He is completely unelectable. Starmer would trounce him

    I actually think Gove might make an OK PM, but he is not papabile, not remotely
    Gove is the kingmaker. Or Cummings. I presume they work together on it. They then act as consigliere.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    edited January 2022

    Punning, so awesome you'd think it was me.


    Foot heads arms body is my all-time favourite headline.
    Nah. Good as it is, the best headline ever was in the P&J the day after Inverness Caledonian Thistle beat Celtic.

    Super Caley go ballistic, Celtic are atrocious.

    Just perfect.
    Erm, wasn't Super Caley Go Ballistic, Celtic are Atrocious in the Scottish edition of the Sun?

    ETA scooped by @Alistair
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Labour have a lead of 43% - 33% in "All seats Labour has lost since 2005" in this Opinium poll.

    Given that would include 40 seats in Scotland where they are now pretty much nowhere, that must mean a huge lead in England.
    Spot on.

    The details in these polls are much, much worse for the Conservatives than the headline figures.
    I’ve seen it suggested - including here - that it is middle class voters in the south who are the most upset with the PM’s goings on.

    The polling detail suggests the opposite. Perhaps those who have had the tougher lockdown experience are more angry than the middle class office workers sipping their Chardonnay from their home offices?
    If you voted Johnson despite your grandfather turning in his grave as many did in Dec 2019 you are going to be more pissed than the average bear that you were cheated.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,293

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Labour have a lead of 43% - 33% in "All seats Labour has lost since 2005" in this Opinium poll.

    Given that would include 40 seats in Scotland where they are now pretty much nowhere, that must mean a huge lead in England.
    Spot on.

    The details in these polls are much, much worse for the Conservatives than the headline figures.
    I’ve seen it suggested - including here - that it is middle class voters in the south who are the most upset with the PM’s goings on.

    The polling detail suggests the opposite. Perhaps those who have had the tougher lockdown experience are more angry than the middle class office workers sipping their Chardonnay from their home offices?
    Agreed. Con VI in the SE (outwith London) has been tremendous. They are building up support where they really don’t need it. The North is totally gone. The key is the Midlands: Labour have a clear lead for now, but swingback still feasible.
    Labour seem to be so far ahead in the North of England that a large number of Redwall Mps look doomed. There'd need to be an enormous swing back for the Tories to have a hope of holding Blyth Valley or Leigh, for instance.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    You've got a travelogue type book in you. Not sure it will entirely make you popular in many regions of the world, but will be an interesting read.

    Leonly Planet?
    I've often thought that, when the time comes to set down my flint knapper, I could turn to writing, and do one outrageous, politically incorrect book about all my travels and what I REALLY think of various places, a book which would get me utterly cancelled but also make a deal of money as I retire (so who cares if I am cancelled)

    Hmmm....
  • HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    They can't fight the future, tho. Kids just don't watch BBC. My daughter is 15, she probably consumes an hour of BBC output a month. Is that worth £160 a year? No

    She watches Youtube, Netflix, TikTok. She watches old programmes on streaming services. "Downton" is as close as she gets to watching traditional TV (I think she consumes it via YouTube)

    Her friends watch even less. Dorries is right. It is over for the BBC as it stands. The Culture War thing is a colourful sideshow (and it has maybe accelerated the BBC's demise, mildly). The BBC model is simply broken
    Anybody who interacts with kids knows the BBC just isn't relevant to them. And the licence fee is totally unenforceable in the days of 5G and broadband.

    The only people who get done for not paying licence fee are idiots who basically admit it to the powerless Capita run sales people.

    But the BBC won't reform.
    The BBC still makes some good programmes, Strictly, the Attenborough documentaries, the Bodyguard etc.

    However if we are to continue with the license fee it should be open to all freeview broadcasters including ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 and their subsidiary channels Film4, ITV2 etc for programmes of cultural, scientific or current affairs or sporting interest.

    The BBC will then have to make popular enough soaps, dramas and reality shows to be funded by advertising revenue like Strictly and the Bodyguard as they get big audiences.
    The main selling point of the BBC is that there are no bloody adverts.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Labour starting to remind the electorate of 1997 when they last turned out a broken, sleazy tory party after years in power...


    Sienna Rodgers
    @siennamarla

    Rachel Reeves is in conversation with Polly Toynbee at #FEPSFAB22. Reeves says the shift in the polls is an opportunity that must be seized because it means "people are more interested in what Labour has to say" – so plans re living with Covid etc are being set out now.

    There are "so many parallels with what we inherited in 1997", Reeves says. "We’ve got a playbook here because Labour did transform public services." Citing New Labour policies on public services: "Friends, we will do those things again. We will turn around those public services."

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    The papers are a total damp squib.

    Bozza is going nowhere.

    Anyone know why we have to wait until 26 Jan for the remaining covid restrictions to be binned? Why not can them now? Does anyone think we should keep them?
  • HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    They can't fight the future, tho. Kids just don't watch BBC. My daughter is 15, she probably consumes an hour of BBC output a month. Is that worth £160 a year? No

    She watches Youtube, Netflix, TikTok. She watches old programmes on streaming services. "Downton" is as close as she gets to watching traditional TV (I think she consumes it via YouTube)

    Her friends watch even less. Dorries is right. It is over for the BBC as it stands. The Culture War thing is a colourful sideshow (and it has maybe accelerated the BBC's demise, mildly). The BBC model is simply broken
    Anybody who interacts with kids knows the BBC just isn't relevant to them. And the licence fee is totally unenforceable in the days of 5G and broadband.

    The only people who get done for not paying licence fee are idiots who basically admit it to the powerless Capita run sales people.

    But the BBC won't reform.
    The BBC still makes some good programmes, Strictly, the Attenborough documentaries, the Bodyguard etc.

    However if we are to continue with the license fee it should be open to all freeview broadcasters including ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 and their subsidiary channels Film4, ITV2 etc for programmes of cultural, scientific or current affairs or sporting interest.

    The BBC will then have to make popular enough soaps, dramas and reality shows to be funded by advertising revenue like Strictly and the Bodyguard as they get big audiences.
    The main selling point of the BBC is that there are no bloody adverts.
    There are, for their other programmes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited January 2022

    Labour starting to remind the electorate of 1997 when they last turned out a broken, sleazy tory party after years in power...


    Sienna Rodgers
    @siennamarla

    Rachel Reeves is in conversation with Polly Toynbee at #FEPSFAB22. Reeves says the shift in the polls is an opportunity that must be seized because it means "people are more interested in what Labour has to say" – so plans re living with Covid etc are being set out now.

    There are "so many parallels with what we inherited in 1997", Reeves says. "We’ve got a playbook here because Labour did transform public services." Citing New Labour policies on public services: "Friends, we will do those things again. We will turn around those public services."

    Except that Labour in 1997 inherited a booming economy and a surplus - the so-called "golden economic legacy" - and Labour in 2024- if they win - will inherit debt around 100% of GDP, and painful deficits


    THERE IS NO BLOODY MONEY LEFT
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    You've got a travelogue type book in you. Not sure it will entirely make you popular in many regions of the world, but will be an interesting read.

    Leonly Planet?
    I've often thought that, when the time comes to set down my flint knapper, I could turn to writing, and do one outrageous, politically incorrect book about all my travels and what I REALLY think of various places, a book which would get me utterly cancelled but also make a deal of money as I retire (so who cares if I am cancelled)

    Hmmm....
    How could you make money if you were cancelled?
    The words you are looking for is "unpopular with a certain set."
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    The passably attractive women must have heard you were in town. And left.

    But they don't go out until at least 1 am. Perhaps you were badly jet-lagged and missed them..?

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    The papers are a total damp squib.

    Bozza is going nowhere.

    Anyone know why we have to wait until 26 Jan for the remaining covid restrictions to be binned? Why not can them now? Does anyone think we should keep them?

    Pagel.
  • ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    Mrs Thatcher greatly harmed British television because she was annoyed at ITV and mistrusted the BBC. So why shouldn't this lot have a go?
    /
    ITV? I thought she was pissed at the Beeb because of their coverage of the Falklands?
    ITV did a couple of documentaries: Death of a Princess and Death on the Rock.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_on_the_Rock
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_Princess
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    The papers are a total damp squib.

    Bozza is going nowhere.

    Anyone know why we have to wait until 26 Jan for the remaining covid restrictions to be binned? Why not can them now? Does anyone think we should keep them?

    Because. Without fear of COVID, the entire raison d'etre of this government disappears.
    It's all hard slog of inflation, tax rises, waiting lists, a total absence of Brexit dividend and a traumatised electorate.
    With no plan whatsoever.
    COVID has kept Bozo afloat for two years.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    The papers are a total damp squib.

    Bozza is going nowhere.

    Anyone know why we have to wait until 26 Jan for the remaining covid restrictions to be binned? Why not can them now? Does anyone think we should keep them?

    Pagel.
    I’m sure that’s true but even she has gone quiet about them. Seems to be focusing her efforts on getting venues better ventilated these days. (Which, I think, is fair enough)
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    They can't fight the future, tho. Kids just don't watch BBC. My daughter is 15, she probably consumes an hour of BBC output a month. Is that worth £160 a year? No

    She watches Youtube, Netflix, TikTok. She watches old programmes on streaming services. "Downton" is as close as she gets to watching traditional TV (I think she consumes it via YouTube)

    Her friends watch even less. Dorries is right. It is over for the BBC as it stands. The Culture War thing is a colourful sideshow (and it has maybe accelerated the BBC's demise, mildly). The BBC model is simply broken
    Anybody who interacts with kids knows the BBC just isn't relevant to them. And the licence fee is totally unenforceable in the days of 5G and broadband.

    The only people who get done for not paying licence fee are idiots who basically admit it to the powerless Capita run sales people.

    But the BBC won't reform.
    The BBC still makes some good programmes, Strictly, the Attenborough documentaries, the Bodyguard etc.

    However if we are to continue with the license fee it should be open to all freeview broadcasters including ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 and their subsidiary channels Film4, ITV2 etc for programmes of cultural, scientific or current affairs or sporting interest.

    The BBC will then have to make popular enough soaps, dramas and reality shows to be funded by advertising revenue like Strictly and the Bodyguard as they get big audiences.
    The main selling point of the BBC is that there are no bloody adverts.
    There are, for their other programmes.
    Pathetic comment
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Leon said:

    Labour starting to remind the electorate of 1997 when they last turned out a broken, sleazy tory party after years in power...


    Sienna Rodgers
    @siennamarla

    Rachel Reeves is in conversation with Polly Toynbee at #FEPSFAB22. Reeves says the shift in the polls is an opportunity that must be seized because it means "people are more interested in what Labour has to say" – so plans re living with Covid etc are being set out now.

    There are "so many parallels with what we inherited in 1997", Reeves says. "We’ve got a playbook here because Labour did transform public services." Citing New Labour policies on public services: "Friends, we will do those things again. We will turn around those public services."

    Except that Labour in 1997 inherited a booming economy and a surplus - the so-called "golden economic legacy" - and Labour in 2024- if they win - will inherit debt around 100% of GDP, and painful deficits


    THERE IS NO BLOODY MONEY LEFT
    We can't afford a Labour government is pretty much the go to argument of the Conservative Party at all times ever.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    GIN1138 said:

    Omnium said:

    GIN1138 said:
    Bercow's sins are all just beyond the Bercow line whereby they count. The man's completely innocent!
    Kathryn Stone, the parliamentary commissioner for standards, has judged Bercow guilty on 21 counts out of another 35 brought by Lord Lisvane, the former clerk of the Commons, and private secretaries Kate Emms and Angus Sinclair
    Absolutely dreadful decision by Starmer to give him membership of the Labour Party before the investigation had concluded... and absolutely the right decision by Boris and the government not to give him a seat in the Lords until all matters pertaining to these bullying allegations had been cleared up...
    ......and Priti Patel's bullying?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited January 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    They can't fight the future, tho. Kids just don't watch BBC. My daughter is 15, she probably consumes an hour of BBC output a month. Is that worth £160 a year? No

    She watches Youtube, Netflix, TikTok. She watches old programmes on streaming services. "Downton" is as close as she gets to watching traditional TV (I think she consumes it via YouTube)

    Her friends watch even less. Dorries is right. It is over for the BBC as it stands. The Culture War thing is a colourful sideshow (and it has maybe accelerated the BBC's demise, mildly). The BBC model is simply broken
    Anybody who interacts with kids knows the BBC just isn't relevant to them. And the licence fee is totally unenforceable in the days of 5G and broadband.

    The only people who get done for not paying licence fee are idiots who basically admit it to the powerless Capita run sales people.

    But the BBC won't reform.
    The BBC still makes some good programmes, Strictly, the Attenborough documentaries, the Bodyguard etc.

    However if we are to continue with the license fee it should be open to all freeview broadcasters including ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 and their subsidiary channels Film4, ITV2 etc for programmes of cultural, scientific or current affairs or sporting interest.

    The BBC will then have to make popular enough soaps, dramas and reality shows to be funded by advertising revenue like Strictly and the Bodyguard as they get big audiences.
    The main selling point of the BBC is that there are no bloody adverts.
    There are, for their other programmes.
    Pathetic comment
    Actually the BBC do run plenty of adverts e.g anybody accessing their website from overseas. They also own 100% of UKTV where all of their revenue comes from ads and a big bulk of their schedule is old BBC shows.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    The passably attractive women must have heard you were in town. And left.

    But they don't go out until at least 1 am. Perhaps you were badly jet-lagged and missed them..?

    Honestly, I tried, there aren't any

    Stark contrast with Chile which has fabulously attractive women. Indeed the Atacama desert resort town of San Pedro has, I reckon, the highest level of female beauty per capita IN THE WORLD, and this is after an intense personal lifelong scientific study, comparable to Darwin's work on The Beagle

    I think all the rich families in Chile send their lissom daughters on a gap year holiday to the Atacama. The effect is striking

    Going back to Argentina, the calamitous mishandling of their economy is stunning


    "Early in the twentieth century, Argentina had one of the ten highest per capita GDP levels globally. It was on par with Canada and Australia, and had surpassed both France and Italy."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Argentina

    Nothing has changed in terms of potential. Argentina is vast, with a smallish but quite literate population, with incredible resources, and a wide wide ocean to fish in. It has jungles and prairies and wheat fields and mountains.

    Now?

    It's 95th in the world, just behind Guyana, just ahead of Turkmenistan. This is not helped by the constantly collapsing currency, but still

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita


    They have had deep recessions every other year for decades. It is a kind of slow-motion Venezuela. Something is deeply wrong with Argentina
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    edited January 2022

    The papers are a total damp squib.

    Bozza is going nowhere.

    Anyone know why we have to wait until 26 Jan for the remaining covid restrictions to be binned? Why not can them now? Does anyone think we should keep them?

    Because that is when they will expire if not renewed.

    The Star is having fun: Party Party Taxes Parties.
    Party-poopers from the party that loves a rule-breaking party will tax parties, with essential office supplies such as wine glasses set to be walloped.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/party-loving-tories-introduce-mega-25957085
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Let's hope all of the Covid restrictions are lifted on 26th January, if not sooner. Is that the government plan? That everything goes on that date, or is just some of the restrictions?
  • Leon said:

    Labour starting to remind the electorate of 1997 when they last turned out a broken, sleazy tory party after years in power...


    Sienna Rodgers
    @siennamarla

    Rachel Reeves is in conversation with Polly Toynbee at #FEPSFAB22. Reeves says the shift in the polls is an opportunity that must be seized because it means "people are more interested in what Labour has to say" – so plans re living with Covid etc are being set out now.

    There are "so many parallels with what we inherited in 1997", Reeves says. "We’ve got a playbook here because Labour did transform public services." Citing New Labour policies on public services: "Friends, we will do those things again. We will turn around those public services."

    Except that Labour in 1997 inherited a booming economy and a surplus - the so-called "golden economic legacy" - and Labour in 2024- if they win - will inherit debt around 100% of GDP, and painful deficits


    THERE IS NO BLOODY MONEY LEFT
    This is the challenge for all politicians going forward. We and the rest of the West have had 2 massively expensive crises in a row.

    You want more money for the NHS and social care
    You want to spend billions on Net Zero
    You want to invest huge amounts in levelling up
    You want low taxes
    You want to maintain current services

    Sorry something has to give
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    The passably attractive women must have heard you were in town. And left.

    But they don't go out until at least 1 am. Perhaps you were badly jet-lagged and missed them..?

    Honestly, I tried, there aren't any

    Stark contrast with Chile which has fabulously attractive women. Indeed the Atacama desert resort town of San Pedro has, I reckon, the highest level of female beauty per capita IN THE WORLD, and this is after an intense personal lifelong scientific study, comparable to Darwin's work on The Beagle

    I think all the rich families in Chile send their lissom daughters on a gap year holiday to the Atacama. The effect is striking

    Going back to Argentina, the calamitous mishandling of their economy is stunning


    "Early in the twentieth century, Argentina had one of the ten highest per capita GDP levels globally. It was on par with Canada and Australia, and had surpassed both France and Italy."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Argentina

    Nothing has changed in terms of potential. Argentina is vast, with a smallish but quite literate population, with incredible resources, and a wide wide ocean to fish in. It has jungles and prairies and wheat fields and mountains.

    Now?

    It's 95th in the world, just behind Guyana, just ahead of Turkmenistan. This is not helped by the constantly collapsing currency, but still

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita


    They have had deep recessions every other year for decades. It is a kind of slow-motion Venezuela. Something is deeply wrong with Argentina
    It is a clear lesson in the dangers of caudilloism. Democracy is by far the best government type for long term economic success. Once you start introducing dictators you might get lucky with one or two, but before long you have an inept idiot in charge. Unlike democracy, it is far harder to remove him. Meaning you get decades of shitshow rather than 5 years.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Leon said:

    Labour starting to remind the electorate of 1997 when they last turned out a broken, sleazy tory party after years in power...


    Sienna Rodgers
    @siennamarla

    Rachel Reeves is in conversation with Polly Toynbee at #FEPSFAB22. Reeves says the shift in the polls is an opportunity that must be seized because it means "people are more interested in what Labour has to say" – so plans re living with Covid etc are being set out now.

    There are "so many parallels with what we inherited in 1997", Reeves says. "We’ve got a playbook here because Labour did transform public services." Citing New Labour policies on public services: "Friends, we will do those things again. We will turn around those public services."

    Except that Labour in 1997 inherited a booming economy and a surplus - the so-called "golden economic legacy" - and Labour in 2024- if they win - will inherit debt around 100% of GDP, and painful deficits


    THERE IS NO BLOODY MONEY LEFT
    This is the challenge for all politicians going forward. We and the rest of the West have had 2 massively expensive crises in a row.

    You want more money for the NHS and social care
    You want to spend billions on Net Zero
    You want to invest huge amounts in levelling up
    You want low taxes
    You want to maintain current services

    Sorry something has to give
    Net zero and levelling up are actually less expensive than climate change and entrenched poverty though.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    The passably attractive women must have heard you were in town. And left.

    But they don't go out until at least 1 am. Perhaps you were badly jet-lagged and missed them..?

    Honestly, I tried, there aren't any

    Stark contrast with Chile which has fabulously attractive women. Indeed the Atacama desert resort town of San Pedro has, I reckon, the highest level of female beauty per capita IN THE WORLD, and this is after an intense personal lifelong scientific study, comparable to Darwin's work on The Beagle

    I think all the rich families in Chile send their lissom daughters on a gap year holiday to the Atacama. The effect is striking
    Interesting. It's only got a population of 4,000 according to Wikipedia unless I've got the wrong San Pedro.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    The passably attractive women must have heard you were in town. And left.

    But they don't go out until at least 1 am. Perhaps you were badly jet-lagged and missed them..?

    Honestly, I tried, there aren't any

    Stark contrast with Chile which has fabulously attractive women. Indeed the Atacama desert resort town of San Pedro has, I reckon, the highest level of female beauty per capita IN THE WORLD, and this is after an intense personal lifelong scientific study, comparable to Darwin's work on The Beagle

    I think all the rich families in Chile send their lissom daughters on a gap year holiday to the Atacama. The effect is striking

    Going back to Argentina, the calamitous mishandling of their economy is stunning


    "Early in the twentieth century, Argentina had one of the ten highest per capita GDP levels globally. It was on par with Canada and Australia, and had surpassed both France and Italy."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Argentina

    Nothing has changed in terms of potential. Argentina is vast, with a smallish but quite literate population, with incredible resources, and a wide wide ocean to fish in. It has jungles and prairies and wheat fields and mountains.

    Now?

    It's 95th in the world, just behind Guyana, just ahead of Turkmenistan. This is not helped by the constantly collapsing currency, but still

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita


    They have had deep recessions every other year for decades. It is a kind of slow-motion Venezuela. Something is deeply wrong with Argentina
    It is a clear lesson in the dangers of caudilloism. Democracy is by far the best government type for long term economic success. Once you start introducing dictators you might get lucky with one or two, but before long you have an inept idiot in charge. Unlike democracy, it is far harder to remove him. Meaning you get decades of shitshow rather than 5 years.
    That is certainly true of Argentina in the Peron era and onwards. But Argentina has been "democratic" for quite a while now and that hasn't helped either. The country is still a catastrophe. Something ELSE is wrong. Something even deeper

    Meanwhile autocracies like Singapore flourish, with hardly any democracy at all

    So it really isn't as simple as you say
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    The passably attractive women must have heard you were in town. And left.

    But they don't go out until at least 1 am. Perhaps you were badly jet-lagged and missed them..?

    Honestly, I tried, there aren't any

    Stark contrast with Chile which has fabulously attractive women. Indeed the Atacama desert resort town of San Pedro has, I reckon, the highest level of female beauty per capita IN THE WORLD, and this is after an intense personal lifelong scientific study, comparable to Darwin's work on The Beagle

    I think all the rich families in Chile send their lissom daughters on a gap year holiday to the Atacama. The effect is striking

    Going back to Argentina, the calamitous mishandling of their economy is stunning


    "Early in the twentieth century, Argentina had one of the ten highest per capita GDP levels globally. It was on par with Canada and Australia, and had surpassed both France and Italy."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Argentina

    Nothing has changed in terms of potential. Argentina is vast, with a smallish but quite literate population, with incredible resources, and a wide wide ocean to fish in. It has jungles and prairies and wheat fields and mountains.

    Now?

    It's 95th in the world, just behind Guyana, just ahead of Turkmenistan. This is not helped by the constantly collapsing currency, but still

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita


    They have had deep recessions every other year for decades. It is a kind of slow-motion Venezuela. Something is deeply wrong with Argentina
    Someone used to argue on here that the 21st century could see Britain follow a similar trajectory to Argentina in the 20th century.
  • Punning, so awesome you'd think it was me.


    Foot heads arms body is my all-time favourite headline.
    Nah. Good as it is, the best headline ever was in the P&J the day after Inverness Caledonian Thistle beat Celtic.

    Super Caley go ballistic, Celtic are atrocious.

    Just perfect.
    Erm, wasn't Super Caley Go Ballistic, Celtic are Atrocious in the Scottish edition of the Sun?

    ETA scooped by @Alistair
    Apologies yes. I thought it was the P&J. A much better newspaper all round. :)
  • Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    The passably attractive women must have heard you were in town. And left.

    But they don't go out until at least 1 am. Perhaps you were badly jet-lagged and missed them..?

    Honestly, I tried, there aren't any

    Stark contrast with Chile which has fabulously attractive women. Indeed the Atacama desert resort town of San Pedro has, I reckon, the highest level of female beauty per capita IN THE WORLD, and this is after an intense personal lifelong scientific study, comparable to Darwin's work on The Beagle

    I think all the rich families in Chile send their lissom daughters on a gap year holiday to the Atacama. The effect is striking

    Going back to Argentina, the calamitous mishandling of their economy is stunning


    "Early in the twentieth century, Argentina had one of the ten highest per capita GDP levels globally. It was on par with Canada and Australia, and had surpassed both France and Italy."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Argentina

    Nothing has changed in terms of potential. Argentina is vast, with a smallish but quite literate population, with incredible resources, and a wide wide ocean to fish in. It has jungles and prairies and wheat fields and mountains.

    Now?

    It's 95th in the world, just behind Guyana, just ahead of Turkmenistan. This is not helped by the constantly collapsing currency, but still

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita


    They have had deep recessions every other year for decades. It is a kind of slow-motion Venezuela. Something is deeply wrong with Argentina
    It is a clear lesson in the dangers of caudilloism. Democracy is by far the best government type for long term economic success. Once you start introducing dictators you might get lucky with one or two, but before long you have an inept idiot in charge. Unlike democracy, it is far harder to remove him. Meaning you get decades of shitshow rather than 5 years.
    That is certainly true of Argentina in the Peron era and onwards. But Argentina has been "democratic" for quite a while now and that hasn't helped either. The country is still a catastrophe. Something ELSE is wrong. Something even deeper

    Meanwhile autocracies like Singapore flourish, with hardly any democracy at all

    So it really isn't as simple as you say
    Singapore is "partly free", according to Freedom House. So too, surprisingly, is India.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    The passably attractive women must have heard you were in town. And left.

    But they don't go out until at least 1 am. Perhaps you were badly jet-lagged and missed them..?

    Honestly, I tried, there aren't any

    Stark contrast with Chile which has fabulously attractive women. Indeed the Atacama desert resort town of San Pedro has, I reckon, the highest level of female beauty per capita IN THE WORLD, and this is after an intense personal lifelong scientific study, comparable to Darwin's work on The Beagle

    I think all the rich families in Chile send their lissom daughters on a gap year holiday to the Atacama. The effect is striking
    Interesting. It's only got a population of 4,000 according to Wikipedia unless I've got the wrong San Pedro.
    No, that's it. It's tiny.

    It's a chic desert resort town surrounded by saltflats and stunning mountains and volcanoes - the Andes. Quite close to the Bolivian border

    It attracts young people as a kind of upscale cowboy rugged hipster backpacker hangout. Most are Chilean gap year types with a sizeable smattering of young Europeans and Americans

    I am not joking about the women. It's the sort of place where, as a man, your jaw drops every four metres

    The closest comparison I can think of is maybe rich coastal Croatia or bits of the Baltics, or Minsk, or central St Petersburg, where every third woman seems to be a model. The Slavic cheekbones
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    The passably attractive women must have heard you were in town. And left.

    But they don't go out until at least 1 am. Perhaps you were badly jet-lagged and missed them..?

    Honestly, I tried, there aren't any

    Stark contrast with Chile which has fabulously attractive women. Indeed the Atacama desert resort town of San Pedro has, I reckon, the highest level of female beauty per capita IN THE WORLD, and this is after an intense personal lifelong scientific study, comparable to Darwin's work on The Beagle

    I think all the rich families in Chile send their lissom daughters on a gap year holiday to the Atacama. The effect is striking

    Going back to Argentina, the calamitous mishandling of their economy is stunning


    "Early in the twentieth century, Argentina had one of the ten highest per capita GDP levels globally. It was on par with Canada and Australia, and had surpassed both France and Italy."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Argentina

    Nothing has changed in terms of potential. Argentina is vast, with a smallish but quite literate population, with incredible resources, and a wide wide ocean to fish in. It has jungles and prairies and wheat fields and mountains.

    Now?

    It's 95th in the world, just behind Guyana, just ahead of Turkmenistan. This is not helped by the constantly collapsing currency, but still

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita


    They have had deep recessions every other year for decades. It is a kind of slow-motion Venezuela. Something is deeply wrong with Argentina
    It is a clear lesson in the dangers of caudilloism. Democracy is by far the best government type for long term economic success. Once you start introducing dictators you might get lucky with one or two, but before long you have an inept idiot in charge. Unlike democracy, it is far harder to remove him. Meaning you get decades of shitshow rather than 5 years.
    That is certainly true of Argentina in the Peron era and onwards. But Argentina has been "democratic" for quite a while now and that hasn't helped either. The country is still a catastrophe. Something ELSE is wrong. Something even deeper

    Meanwhile autocracies like Singapore flourish, with hardly any democracy at all

    So it really isn't as simple as you say
    I found this helpful in understanding the dynamics of South America.

    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2020/08/02/book-review-the-jakarta-method-washingtons-anticommunist-crusade-and-the-mass-murder-program-that-shaped-our-world-by-vincent-bevins/

    Dismantling stable governments and poisoning relatively cohesive societies seems to have long term consequences.
  • Leon said:

    Labour starting to remind the electorate of 1997 when they last turned out a broken, sleazy tory party after years in power...


    Sienna Rodgers
    @siennamarla

    Rachel Reeves is in conversation with Polly Toynbee at #FEPSFAB22. Reeves says the shift in the polls is an opportunity that must be seized because it means "people are more interested in what Labour has to say" – so plans re living with Covid etc are being set out now.

    There are "so many parallels with what we inherited in 1997", Reeves says. "We’ve got a playbook here because Labour did transform public services." Citing New Labour policies on public services: "Friends, we will do those things again. We will turn around those public services."

    Except that Labour in 1997 inherited a booming economy and a surplus - the so-called "golden economic legacy" - and Labour in 2024- if they win - will inherit debt around 100% of GDP, and painful deficits


    THERE IS NO BLOODY MONEY LEFT
    This is the challenge for all politicians going forward. We and the rest of the West have had 2 massively expensive crises in a row.

    You want more money for the NHS and social care
    You want to spend billions on Net Zero
    You want to invest huge amounts in levelling up
    You want low taxes
    You want to maintain current services

    Sorry something has to give
    Or the economy could grow.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    You've got a travelogue type book in you. Not sure it will entirely make you popular in many regions of the world, but will be an interesting read.

    Leonly Planet?
    I've often thought that, when the time comes to set down my flint knapper, I could turn to writing, and do one outrageous, politically incorrect book about all my travels and what I REALLY think of various places, a book which would get me utterly cancelled but also make a deal of money as I retire (so who cares if I am cancelled)

    Hmmm....
    I would buy it.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    The passably attractive women must have heard you were in town. And left.

    But they don't go out until at least 1 am. Perhaps you were badly jet-lagged and missed them..?

    Honestly, I tried, there aren't any

    Stark contrast with Chile which has fabulously attractive women. Indeed the Atacama desert resort town of San Pedro has, I reckon, the highest level of female beauty per capita IN THE WORLD, and this is after an intense personal lifelong scientific study, comparable to Darwin's work on The Beagle

    I think all the rich families in Chile send their lissom daughters on a gap year holiday to the Atacama. The effect is striking

    Going back to Argentina, the calamitous mishandling of their economy is stunning


    "Early in the twentieth century, Argentina had one of the ten highest per capita GDP levels globally. It was on par with Canada and Australia, and had surpassed both France and Italy."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Argentina

    Nothing has changed in terms of potential. Argentina is vast, with a smallish but quite literate population, with incredible resources, and a wide wide ocean to fish in. It has jungles and prairies and wheat fields and mountains.

    Now?

    It's 95th in the world, just behind Guyana, just ahead of Turkmenistan. This is not helped by the constantly collapsing currency, but still

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita


    They have had deep recessions every other year for decades. It is a kind of slow-motion Venezuela. Something is deeply wrong with Argentina
    It is a clear lesson in the dangers of caudilloism. Democracy is by far the best government type for long term economic success. Once you start introducing dictators you might get lucky with one or two, but before long you have an inept idiot in charge. Unlike democracy, it is far harder to remove him. Meaning you get decades of shitshow rather than 5 years.
    That is certainly true of Argentina in the Peron era and onwards. But Argentina has been "democratic" for quite a while now and that hasn't helped either. The country is still a catastrophe. Something ELSE is wrong. Something even deeper

    Meanwhile autocracies like Singapore flourish, with hardly any democracy at all

    So it really isn't as simple as you say
    I found this helpful in understanding the dynamics of South America.

    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2020/08/02/book-review-the-jakarta-method-washingtons-anticommunist-crusade-and-the-mass-murder-program-that-shaped-our-world-by-vincent-bevins/

    Dismantling stable governments and poisoning relatively cohesive societies seems to have long term consequences.
    Argentina went off the rails long before the USA got involved.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    The passably attractive women must have heard you were in town. And left.

    But they don't go out until at least 1 am. Perhaps you were badly jet-lagged and missed them..?

    Honestly, I tried, there aren't any

    Stark contrast with Chile which has fabulously attractive women. Indeed the Atacama desert resort town of San Pedro has, I reckon, the highest level of female beauty per capita IN THE WORLD, and this is after an intense personal lifelong scientific study, comparable to Darwin's work on The Beagle

    I think all the rich families in Chile send their lissom daughters on a gap year holiday to the Atacama. The effect is striking

    Going back to Argentina, the calamitous mishandling of their economy is stunning


    "Early in the twentieth century, Argentina had one of the ten highest per capita GDP levels globally. It was on par with Canada and Australia, and had surpassed both France and Italy."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Argentina

    Nothing has changed in terms of potential. Argentina is vast, with a smallish but quite literate population, with incredible resources, and a wide wide ocean to fish in. It has jungles and prairies and wheat fields and mountains.

    Now?

    It's 95th in the world, just behind Guyana, just ahead of Turkmenistan. This is not helped by the constantly collapsing currency, but still

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita


    They have had deep recessions every other year for decades. It is a kind of slow-motion Venezuela. Something is deeply wrong with Argentina
    It is a clear lesson in the dangers of caudilloism. Democracy is by far the best government type for long term economic success. Once you start introducing dictators you might get lucky with one or two, but before long you have an inept idiot in charge. Unlike democracy, it is far harder to remove him. Meaning you get decades of shitshow rather than 5 years.
    That is certainly true of Argentina in the Peron era and onwards. But Argentina has been "democratic" for quite a while now and that hasn't helped either. The country is still a catastrophe. Something ELSE is wrong. Something even deeper

    Meanwhile autocracies like Singapore flourish, with hardly any democracy at all

    So it really isn't as simple as you say
    I found this helpful in understanding the dynamics of South America.

    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2020/08/02/book-review-the-jakarta-method-washingtons-anticommunist-crusade-and-the-mass-murder-program-that-shaped-our-world-by-vincent-bevins/

    Dismantling stable governments and poisoning relatively cohesive societies seems to have long term consequences.
    Except that the most successful economy in South America is probably Chile (with the possible exception of Uruguay) and Chile is where the USA helped a quasi-Fascist (Pinochet) overthrow a quasi-communist (Allende) and after decades of stern autocracy Chile became democratic, and remains so, and - by the sad standards of Latin America - is stable, prosperous and free

    The real explanations are much deeper than any of these glib analyses
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    The passably attractive women must have heard you were in town. And left.

    But they don't go out until at least 1 am. Perhaps you were badly jet-lagged and missed them..?

    Honestly, I tried, there aren't any

    Stark contrast with Chile which has fabulously attractive women. Indeed the Atacama desert resort town of San Pedro has, I reckon, the highest level of female beauty per capita IN THE WORLD, and this is after an intense personal lifelong scientific study, comparable to Darwin's work on The Beagle

    I think all the rich families in Chile send their lissom daughters on a gap year holiday to the Atacama. The effect is striking

    Going back to Argentina, the calamitous mishandling of their economy is stunning


    "Early in the twentieth century, Argentina had one of the ten highest per capita GDP levels globally. It was on par with Canada and Australia, and had surpassed both France and Italy."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Argentina

    Nothing has changed in terms of potential. Argentina is vast, with a smallish but quite literate population, with incredible resources, and a wide wide ocean to fish in. It has jungles and prairies and wheat fields and mountains.

    Now?

    It's 95th in the world, just behind Guyana, just ahead of Turkmenistan. This is not helped by the constantly collapsing currency, but still

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita


    They have had deep recessions every other year for decades. It is a kind of slow-motion Venezuela. Something is deeply wrong with Argentina
    It is a clear lesson in the dangers of caudilloism. Democracy is by far the best government type for long term economic success. Once you start introducing dictators you might get lucky with one or two, but before long you have an inept idiot in charge. Unlike democracy, it is far harder to remove him. Meaning you get decades of shitshow rather than 5 years.
    That is certainly true of Argentina in the Peron era and onwards. But Argentina has been "democratic" for quite a while now and that hasn't helped either. The country is still a catastrophe. Something ELSE is wrong. Something even deeper

    Meanwhile autocracies like Singapore flourish, with hardly any democracy at all

    So it really isn't as simple as you say
    Autocracies like Singapore manage to succeed because they are small enough to surf on other people's economic success and cream off the top. It's not really doable for a larger nation. And Argentina's democracy is highly flawed. The rewards for democracy really come into ripeness when you become comprehensively democratic.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    The papers are a total damp squib.

    Bozza is going nowhere.

    Anyone know why we have to wait until 26 Jan for the remaining covid restrictions to be binned? Why not can them now? Does anyone think we should keep them?

    Because that is when they will expire if not renewed.

    The Star is having fun: Party Party Taxes Parties.
    Party-poopers from the party that loves a rule-breaking party will tax parties, with essential office supplies such as wine glasses set to be walloped.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/party-loving-tories-introduce-mega-25957085
    Yes, like the Star story.

    Re: 26 Jan, I know they expire then but so what? Why not just can them tomorrow? Does anyone think they should stay?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Andy_JS said:

    Let's hope all of the Covid restrictions are lifted on 26th January, if not sooner. Is that the government plan? That everything goes on that date, or is just some of the restrictions?

    Who cares. No one is listening to these liars anymore.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    The passably attractive women must have heard you were in town. And left.

    But they don't go out until at least 1 am. Perhaps you were badly jet-lagged and missed them..?

    Honestly, I tried, there aren't any

    Stark contrast with Chile which has fabulously attractive women. Indeed the Atacama desert resort town of San Pedro has, I reckon, the highest level of female beauty per capita IN THE WORLD, and this is after an intense personal lifelong scientific study, comparable to Darwin's work on The Beagle

    I think all the rich families in Chile send their lissom daughters on a gap year holiday to the Atacama. The effect is striking

    Going back to Argentina, the calamitous mishandling of their economy is stunning


    "Early in the twentieth century, Argentina had one of the ten highest per capita GDP levels globally. It was on par with Canada and Australia, and had surpassed both France and Italy."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Argentina

    Nothing has changed in terms of potential. Argentina is vast, with a smallish but quite literate population, with incredible resources, and a wide wide ocean to fish in. It has jungles and prairies and wheat fields and mountains.

    Now?

    It's 95th in the world, just behind Guyana, just ahead of Turkmenistan. This is not helped by the constantly collapsing currency, but still

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita


    They have had deep recessions every other year for decades. It is a kind of slow-motion Venezuela. Something is deeply wrong with Argentina
    It is a clear lesson in the dangers of caudilloism. Democracy is by far the best government type for long term economic success. Once you start introducing dictators you might get lucky with one or two, but before long you have an inept idiot in charge. Unlike democracy, it is far harder to remove him. Meaning you get decades of shitshow rather than 5 years.
    That is certainly true of Argentina in the Peron era and onwards. But Argentina has been "democratic" for quite a while now and that hasn't helped either. The country is still a catastrophe. Something ELSE is wrong. Something even deeper

    Meanwhile autocracies like Singapore flourish, with hardly any democracy at all

    So it really isn't as simple as you say
    Autocracies like Singapore manage to succeed because they are small enough to surf on other people's economic success and cream off the top. It's not really doable for a larger nation. And Argentina's democracy is highly flawed. The rewards for democracy really come into ripeness when you become comprehensively democratic.
    Ah, I see. "Comprehensively democratic". That's the key?

    Hmm.....

    Anyway, enough debate. An entertaining evening. Night night
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    The passably attractive women must have heard you were in town. And left.

    But they don't go out until at least 1 am. Perhaps you were badly jet-lagged and missed them..?

    Honestly, I tried, there aren't any

    Stark contrast with Chile which has fabulously attractive women. Indeed the Atacama desert resort town of San Pedro has, I reckon, the highest level of female beauty per capita IN THE WORLD, and this is after an intense personal lifelong scientific study, comparable to Darwin's work on The Beagle

    I think all the rich families in Chile send their lissom daughters on a gap year holiday to the Atacama. The effect is striking

    Going back to Argentina, the calamitous mishandling of their economy is stunning


    "Early in the twentieth century, Argentina had one of the ten highest per capita GDP levels globally. It was on par with Canada and Australia, and had surpassed both France and Italy."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Argentina

    Nothing has changed in terms of potential. Argentina is vast, with a smallish but quite literate population, with incredible resources, and a wide wide ocean to fish in. It has jungles and prairies and wheat fields and mountains.

    Now?

    It's 95th in the world, just behind Guyana, just ahead of Turkmenistan. This is not helped by the constantly collapsing currency, but still

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita


    They have had deep recessions every other year for decades. It is a kind of slow-motion Venezuela. Something is deeply wrong with Argentina
    It is a clear lesson in the dangers of caudilloism. Democracy is by far the best government type for long term economic success. Once you start introducing dictators you might get lucky with one or two, but before long you have an inept idiot in charge. Unlike democracy, it is far harder to remove him. Meaning you get decades of shitshow rather than 5 years.
    That is certainly true of Argentina in the Peron era and onwards. But Argentina has been "democratic" for quite a while now and that hasn't helped either. The country is still a catastrophe. Something ELSE is wrong. Something even deeper

    Meanwhile autocracies like Singapore flourish, with hardly any democracy at all

    So it really isn't as simple as you say
    I found this helpful in understanding the dynamics of South America.

    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2020/08/02/book-review-the-jakarta-method-washingtons-anticommunist-crusade-and-the-mass-murder-program-that-shaped-our-world-by-vincent-bevins/

    Dismantling stable governments and poisoning relatively cohesive societies seems to have long term consequences.
    Except that the most successful economy in South America is probably Chile (with the possible exception of Uruguay) and Chile is where the USA helped a quasi-Fascist (Pinochet) overthrow a quasi-communist (Allende) and after decades of stern autocracy Chile became democratic, and remains so, and - by the sad standards of Latin America - is stable, prosperous and free

    The real explanations are much deeper than any of these glib analyses
    Why not read the book. It's well reviewed and covers these topics in detail.

    America did far more than help Pinochet. Its actions were fundamental to the deposing of an elected leader and the corrupting of an army.

    Regarding Chile. Yes it is considered prosperous but the argument is as always for whom. The recent election may right some of the systemic inequalities.

  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Labour starting to remind the electorate of 1997 when they last turned out a broken, sleazy tory party after years in power...


    Sienna Rodgers
    @siennamarla

    Rachel Reeves is in conversation with Polly Toynbee at #FEPSFAB22. Reeves says the shift in the polls is an opportunity that must be seized because it means "people are more interested in what Labour has to say" – so plans re living with Covid etc are being set out now.

    There are "so many parallels with what we inherited in 1997", Reeves says. "We’ve got a playbook here because Labour did transform public services." Citing New Labour policies on public services: "Friends, we will do those things again. We will turn around those public services."

    Yet they still thought it was fine to send out a tweet publicising how a nurse had stopped a deeply upset man seeing his dying wife in order to gain some political points on BJ’s parties, and seem to have been surprised by the responses. I think one thing you will find post-COVID is that a decent chunk of the electorate is going to be sceptical about any party that advocates a greater role for the state, and that is not going to help Labour.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    edited January 2022

    The papers are a total damp squib.

    Bozza is going nowhere.

    Anyone know why we have to wait until 26 Jan for the remaining covid restrictions to be binned? Why not can them now? Does anyone think we should keep them?

    Because that is when they will expire if not renewed.

    The Star is having fun: Party Party Taxes Parties.
    Party-poopers from the party that loves a rule-breaking party will tax parties, with essential office supplies such as wine glasses set to be walloped.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/party-loving-tories-introduce-mega-25957085
    Yes, like the Star story.

    Re: 26 Jan, I know they expire then but so what? Why not just can them tomorrow? Does anyone think they should stay?
    There is due to be a review before the rules expire in ten days. I guess they will be anxious to see if belatedly reducing the isolation period eases staff shortages that are impacting the NHS as well as other sectors.
  • HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    They can't fight the future, tho. Kids just don't watch BBC. My daughter is 15, she probably consumes an hour of BBC output a month. Is that worth £160 a year? No

    She watches Youtube, Netflix, TikTok. She watches old programmes on streaming services. "Downton" is as close as she gets to watching traditional TV (I think she consumes it via YouTube)

    Her friends watch even less. Dorries is right. It is over for the BBC as it stands. The Culture War thing is a colourful sideshow (and it has maybe accelerated the BBC's demise, mildly). The BBC model is simply broken
    Anybody who interacts with kids knows the BBC just isn't relevant to them. And the licence fee is totally unenforceable in the days of 5G and broadband.

    The only people who get done for not paying licence fee are idiots who basically admit it to the powerless Capita run sales people.

    But the BBC won't reform.
    The BBC still makes some good programmes, Strictly, the Attenborough documentaries, the Bodyguard etc.

    However if we are to continue with the license fee it should be open to all freeview broadcasters including ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 and their subsidiary channels Film4, ITV2 etc for programmes of cultural, scientific or current affairs or sporting interest.

    The BBC will then have to make popular enough soaps, dramas and reality shows to be funded by advertising revenue like Strictly and the Bodyguard as they get big audiences.
    The main selling point of the BBC is that there are no bloody adverts.
    There's no adverts on Netflix either.

    But who actually gives a f##k about adverts in 2022?

    We have shows series linked from Sky channels etc and for decades now TV remotes have had a fast forward button to skip past the ads.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    Those who enjoy wordle, may enjoy this variation.

    https://conniptions.org/pfeffel/
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ‘The days of state-run television are over’

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1482481807580872707?s=20

    Its going to be all out war between the BBC and the government. The BBC bods will see it as they can't come to pass that the Tories win the next GE.

    They can't fight the future, tho. Kids just don't watch BBC. My daughter is 15, she probably consumes an hour of BBC output a month. Is that worth £160 a year? No

    She watches Youtube, Netflix, TikTok. She watches old programmes on streaming services. "Downton" is as close as she gets to watching traditional TV (I think she consumes it via YouTube)

    Her friends watch even less. Dorries is right. It is over for the BBC as it stands. The Culture War thing is a colourful sideshow (and it has maybe accelerated the BBC's demise, mildly). The BBC model is simply broken
    Anybody who interacts with kids knows the BBC just isn't relevant to them. And the licence fee is totally unenforceable in the days of 5G and broadband.

    The only people who get done for not paying licence fee are idiots who basically admit it to the powerless Capita run sales people.

    But the BBC won't reform.
    The BBC still makes some good programmes, Strictly, the Attenborough documentaries, the Bodyguard etc.

    However if we are to continue with the license fee it should be open to all freeview broadcasters including ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 and their subsidiary channels Film4, ITV2 etc for programmes of cultural, scientific or current affairs or sporting interest.

    The BBC will then have to make popular enough soaps, dramas and reality shows to be funded by advertising revenue like Strictly and the Bodyguard as they get big audiences.
    The main selling point of the BBC is that there are no bloody adverts.
    There's no adverts on Netflix either.

    But who actually gives a f##k about adverts in 2022?

    We have shows series linked from Sky channels etc and for decades now TV remotes have had a fast forward button to skip past the ads.
    I can't stand adverts. Breaks my immersion in a drama. Even if you are fast forwarding.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited January 2022
    I mentioned on an earlier thread that I'd recorded the pressure wave from the volcano, and a couple of others posted graphs.

    Just to add that I believe I've just recorded the one going the long way round the earth. Incredible.

    I wonder if it will come back for a second pass? I believe the one from Krakatoa went round the world twice.


    Note that this phenomenon is likely to be a gravity wave - like a wave from a stone dropped in a pond. The lower atmosphere ripples up and down after it was disturbed by the volcanic eruption. It is not an actual shock wave.

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    There is absolutely nothing in AUKUS about mutual defence commitments. It's primarily a technology collaboration agreement that transfers US technology to Australia and Australian tax payers' money to the USA.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Leon said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    If Putin attacks Sweden I think Britain should launch a unilateral attack on the Bahamas AND Mongolia, just for the lolz. Also, we would win, as everyone else would be distracted

    Well Boris needs a Falklands moment
    Who do you suggest we invade. I would caution that Russia and China would be a bad idea.

    Argentina again?
    We would whip the Argies again. With just a dinghy

    I went to Ushuaia, their main naval base for any Falklands type stuff, in 2019. The whole town is plastered with LAS MALVINAS SON ARGENTINAS! type stuff, with flags and banners and memorials to the wartime dead

    Also, parts of their navy are there, basically a couple of rusting cruisers and half-sunk submarines.

    It is a weirdly pathetic nation, Argentina (and I apologise to any Argentinian readers or commenters). The people are lovely and nice but so so many are puffed up with a mad patriotic pride they cannot possibly satisfy, meanwhile their country falls down around them, even tho they have the resources of a highly prosperous nation

    The only impressive people are the wine makers, the cowboys, and the steak restaurateurs, everyone else stares dumbly at the wall, or falls over broken pavements. The women are are unusually hideous with weird heads. I saw one passably attractive woman in Buenos Aires in a week. ONE. In the capital city (which is bit of a toilet, not the "Paris of Latin America as is often promised")

    The Iguazu Falls are great, however

    The passably attractive women must have heard you were in town. And left.

    But they don't go out until at least 1 am. Perhaps you were badly jet-lagged and missed them..?

    Honestly, I tried, there aren't any

    Stark contrast with Chile which has fabulously attractive women. Indeed the Atacama desert resort town of San Pedro has, I reckon, the highest level of female beauty per capita IN THE WORLD, and this is after an intense personal lifelong scientific study, comparable to Darwin's work on The Beagle

    I think all the rich families in Chile send their lissom daughters on a gap year holiday to the Atacama. The effect is striking

    Going back to Argentina, the calamitous mishandling of their economy is stunning


    "Early in the twentieth century, Argentina had one of the ten highest per capita GDP levels globally. It was on par with Canada and Australia, and had surpassed both France and Italy."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Argentina

    Nothing has changed in terms of potential. Argentina is vast, with a smallish but quite literate population, with incredible resources, and a wide wide ocean to fish in. It has jungles and prairies and wheat fields and mountains.

    Now?

    It's 95th in the world, just behind Guyana, just ahead of Turkmenistan. This is not helped by the constantly collapsing currency, but still

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita


    They have had deep recessions every other year for decades. It is a kind of slow-motion Venezuela. Something is deeply wrong with Argentina
    It is a clear lesson in the dangers of caudilloism. Democracy is by far the best government type for long term economic success. Once you start introducing dictators you might get lucky with one or two, but before long you have an inept idiot in charge. Unlike democracy, it is far harder to remove him. Meaning you get decades of shitshow rather than 5 years.
    That is certainly true of Argentina in the Peron era and onwards. But Argentina has been "democratic" for quite a while now and that hasn't helped either. The country is still a catastrophe. Something ELSE is wrong. Something even deeper

    Meanwhile autocracies like Singapore flourish, with hardly any democracy at all

    So it really isn't as simple as you say
    Singapore is a city state.

    City states tend to be richer.

    How much is the (sorta) dictatorship, and how much being a city state?

    Also, of course, Singapore has the rule of law. How many (sorta) dictatorships have the rule of law?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Nadine Dorries wants a BBC that is a puppet of the government and this latest attack on it shows the arrogance within no10.

    The Tories are now so disconnected from reality that they have ignored the demographic who most use it ,which happens to be the over 65s and their strongest voter block in terms of recent elections .

    This could become a real election issue , 24 hours to save the BBC ! Going after the BBC could backfire spectacularly.
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