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Italy makes vaccinations compulsory for the over 50s – politicalbetting.com

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  • eekeek Posts: 21,002
    FF43 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    ..

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    kjh said:

    OK I am going to ask what is probably an idiotic question but I'm struggling to get this gas prices issue. I understand why it happened in the first place but we have had it for a few months now and gas is a commodity type product and not (I believe) something that has a huge timeline in changing supply volumes so why is it still an issue? I appreciate the UK storage issue, but the price issue isn't unique to the UK.

    AIUI gas prices increased worldwide as Asia and Europe competed for LNG as the world restarted industrial boilers coming out of a Covid lull. Normally Europe would revert to Russian gas and leave the more expensive LNG to Asia in that situation. For reasons that are not quite clear, Western Europe is not buying Russian gas on the spot markets and only taking contracted amounts. Is that because Russia is deliberately withholding gas beyond what it is contracted to supply, or is it because the market price of that gas is too high and Western Europe is refusing to buy and instead is running down reserves?

    Despite not consuming much Russian gas the UK is in the same market as the rest of Europe for alternative supplies - Norwegian gas and LNG - and so pays the same prices.
    For reasons not clear Europe isn't buying Russian Gas?

    The Ukraine and Nord Stream 2 are reasons why Russia is playing politics with European gas supplies.
    What is clear, European gas buyers are not prepared to pay the prices Russia is demanding. What isn't clear, whether Russia would actually supply the gas at those prices and also whether it is managing to place the gas which would otherwise be sold to W Europe.
    What evidence do you have for any of the assertions you are making above.

    You may not have noticed the price of none domestic gas but it's currently way higher than it ever used to be.
    Like @kjh I was curious about what was actually going on with gas prices so did some poking around on the web. you can do the same if you wish. It's all AIUI.

    I don't understand your second comment.
    I don't need to check the web beyond looking at current market prices given that they reflect the current price at which gas is being bought and sold - I find it very strange that you claim gas buyers are not prepared to pay the prices Russia is demanding. They may not like paying those prices but they don't have much choice until other supplies become available (which they are as tankers reroute deliveries from the Middle East and elsewhere to Europe).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,905
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    On Djokovic, I see it was discussed here earlier but I didn't notice the crucial detail that I heard on the radio mentioned. Apologies if I missed it, but..

    The State rule for domestic travel to Victoria is that you can have been previously infected, rather than vaccinated. Apparently all that Djokovic has is "proof" that he's been infected.

    The Federal rule for entering Australia has no such exemption. You have to prove that you are unable to be vaccinated. It's quite clear that any State rules are in addition.

    "Proof that you cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons when coming to Australia
    If you are coming to Australia and have a medical contraindication recorded in the Australian Immunisation Register (AIR) you can show an Australian COVID-19 digital certificate to airline staff. You can otherwise show your immunisation history statement.

    If you do not have your medical contraindication recorded in the AIR you will need to show airline staff a medical certificate that indicates you are unable to be vaccinated with a COVID-19 vaccine because of a medical condition. The medical certificate must be in English and include the following information:

    your name (this must match your travel identification documents)
    date of medical consultation and details of your medical practitioner
    details that clearly acknowledge that you have a medical condition which means you cannot receive a COVID-19 vaccination (vaccination is contraindicated).
    Airlines are responsible for ensuring your proof meets these requirements.

    People who have received non-TGA approved or recognised vaccines should not be certified in this category and cannot be treated as vaccinated for the purposes of their travel.

    You should check any requirements, particularly quarantine and post-arrival testing requirements, in the state or territory to which you are travelling as this will impact your travel arrangements.

    If you are planning on traveling onwards to or through a different state or territory when you arrive in Australia, you need to check domestic travel restrictions. States and territories can apply their own travel restrictions.

    You are responsible for complying with travel restrictions and requirements that apply to you. Please note: proof that you cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons is separate to a Commissioner’s travel exemption."
    https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/vaccinated-travellers#toc-6

    I'm sure they won't let him in. He might be able to sue his airline.

    My reading is the Federal has overrode the State in this one case for political reasons. Djokovic is getting special treatment. Special *adverse* treatment. It's a misuse of power imo but I'd think it has sufficient technical validity to stand. We'll see. It's potentially a big problem for Djokovic longer term because countries other than Oz might take a similar approach.
    The Australian lawyer on the radio earlier was very clear on this: Federal always overrides State.

    Politicians will talk tough for political reasons, but the decision will have nothing to do with the politics.
    The more accurate statement is Federal CAN override but have not in similar cases. I'd say that taking a different approach here in response to public opinion does have a great deal to do with politics.
    And Scott Morrison seeing an ideal opportunity to play tough and get a poll bounce before the Australian general election later this year
  • CookieCookie Posts: 7,364
    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    The problem is that this Omicron picture is similar but *bigger*.
    Before we get ONS regional prevalences (tomorrow), reported cases per 100k will be an imperfect proxy, but they suggest the North is going past London's peak.
    Hospitals there are buckling because it's worse.
    (2/2).

    https://twitter.com/PaulMainwood/status/1479075865237594114?s=20

    The NW has constantly been hard hit.

    So far.....

    image
    Hospitalisations in London appearsto have peaked and is declining.

    Hospitalisations in the North West appears to be surpassing last winter's peak.

    Which is quite surprising - the impression I got from London was that pretty much everyone had it, but it certainly doesn't feel like that here. 'A lot of it about', certainly. But no worse than any cold in any winter.

    But perhaps that's because I don't know that many old people, and it's considerably worse for them.
    Younger v older population centres?

    Terrace Housing?

    Bingo? Whippets? Timothy Taylor’s Landlord?
    The hospitalisations are definitely starting to fall, in London....

    image
    image
    image
    Is it that unlike Lancashire, sometimes the sun comes out in London and it’s a bit warmer?

    What do your monoliths show for conurbation v rural split?
    I'll give you the former but winters in the north west are actually warmer than in the south east, I think. It's the gulf stream. The price of which, though, is that it is cloudier and damper.
    Really? I find London warmer than north this time of year. All year really.
    North West specifically – and snow more common in London than Manchester for the same reason. The SE is exposed to easterlies, whereas the NW is not. Cookie is right (although the Lake District winters can be harsh in a cold polar maritime flow).
    Yes, snow is fairly rare in Manchester - particularly so in south west Manchester where I am, sadly. Just as Leeds and Newcastle are in rain shadows, sheltered from wet westerly windows, Manchester is in a snow shadow - easterly winds bringin snow tend to drop it all on Yorkshire.
    I remember a great aerial photo of the UK from the big snow of January 2010, I think - the whole country was white, with the exception of bits of south west Cornwall and a small five mile radius circle around my house.
    London itself and the NW are pretty similar for winter temperature.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/pub/data/weather/uk/climate/averages/maps/uk/9120_1km/MeanTemp_Average_1991-2020_16.gif

    Parts of the rural SE (particularly East Anglia) are colder than Liverpool-Manchester, and there is more snow in the SE overall than in the Cheshire / Lancashire plain, although that's partly because of the relief of the Downs and Chilterns.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/pub/data/weather/uk/climate/averages/maps/uk/9120_1km/SnowLying_Average_1991-2020_16.gif

    Of course what those lucky Mancunians have which we don't down here is easy access to proper high hills where there's much more snow.
    Hm - I must have been comparing the NW to the SE, rather than to London. I suppose that's the warming effect of a city, too (so possibly also true that Manchester is warmer than the wider North West).

    Our hills are a boon, I'll grant you. It may not snow in Trafford much, but it's generally easy to find some snow within 45 minutes drive during a cold spell.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,780
    edited January 6
    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    ..

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    kjh said:

    OK I am going to ask what is probably an idiotic question but I'm struggling to get this gas prices issue. I understand why it happened in the first place but we have had it for a few months now and gas is a commodity type product and not (I believe) something that has a huge timeline in changing supply volumes so why is it still an issue? I appreciate the UK storage issue, but the price issue isn't unique to the UK.

    AIUI gas prices increased worldwide as Asia and Europe competed for LNG as the world restarted industrial boilers coming out of a Covid lull. Normally Europe would revert to Russian gas and leave the more expensive LNG to Asia in that situation. For reasons that are not quite clear, Western Europe is not buying Russian gas on the spot markets and only taking contracted amounts. Is that because Russia is deliberately withholding gas beyond what it is contracted to supply, or is it because the market price of that gas is too high and Western Europe is refusing to buy and instead is running down reserves?

    Despite not consuming much Russian gas the UK is in the same market as the rest of Europe for alternative supplies - Norwegian gas and LNG - and so pays the same prices.
    For reasons not clear Europe isn't buying Russian Gas?

    The Ukraine and Nord Stream 2 are reasons why Russia is playing politics with European gas supplies.
    What is clear, European gas buyers are not prepared to pay the prices Russia is demanding. What isn't clear, whether Russia would actually supply the gas at those prices and also whether it is managing to place the gas which would otherwise be sold to W Europe.
    What evidence do you have for any of the assertions you are making above.

    You may not have noticed the price of none domestic gas but it's currently way higher than it ever used to be.
    Like @kjh I was curious about what was actually going on with gas prices so did some poking around on the web. you can do the same if you wish. It's all AIUI.

    I don't understand your second comment.
    I don't need to check the web beyond looking at current market prices given that they reflect the current price at which gas is being bought and sold - I find it very strange that you claim gas buyers are not prepared to pay the prices Russia is demanding. They may not like paying those prices but they don't have much choice until other supplies become available (which they are as tankers reroute deliveries from the Middle East and elsewhere to Europe).
    They do. They can run down their reserves, which is what they are doing according to the industry publications I read. Obviously only a short term solution. They can also buy LNG gas at Asian prices, which they are also doing as a partial solution. People agree that Russia is continuing to provide contracted amounts of gas

    I have no doubt there is plenty of politics involved in setting prices but there is a real trade-off between supplying smaller amounts of a commodity at a higher price versus bigger amounts at a lower price. There have been perennial arguments at OPEC about that trade-off.

    Should add by returning to my original point. It's possible Russia is actually withholding gas. Not clear.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 30,662
    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    Morning all, on the Colston verdicts:

    The removal of the statue was a good thing - we shouldn't be celebrating that shameful aspect of our history - and my natural reluctance to second-guess jury verdicts goes unchallenged here.

    And now to burnish this opinion of mine with the balance, moral gravitas and historical context it is so clearly crying out for. Here we go:

    I condemn Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and all other leftist tyrants. In fact I condemn tyrants of any ilk. I have no time for them - tyrants.

    There is a goodly long list of people & civilizations throughout history who were both not British and have profited from the enslaving of others. I'll just mention the Romans but gosh one could go on.

    Is that ok?

    Spot on.

    Ps it still was criminal damage by the definition of the law but you have to accept all jury verdicts if you believe in the system
    It was easy peasy. I duly condemned all tyranny and slavery and thus earned my right to also condemn ours. But pls bookmark this post so I don't have to always preface any negative comment about our colonial crimes with a reference to lots of other stuff that we didn't do. Time saver.

    As for the statue, what they did wasn't criminal. So said the jury. I'd like you to say that back to me to show you really do accept it. Least you can do, Ed, after what I've just done.
    Haha Kinablu, ok I will. It wasn't criminal because the jury said it wasn't.

    And yes I promise.
    ... said it wasn't having heard the evidence and considered the context.

    But, ok, good enough. Your response to any future posts of mine which are critical of our colonialism and its legacy will not be to accuse me of turning a blind eye to other things.

    You'll have to come up with a different line of crap. This is progress.
    Deal. And I expect not to be called a supporter of insurrection or even an anti-vaxxer as I was by one poster because I said I would have voted for Trump. Fair enough?
    I'll take you as you come, as always.

    On that point, agreed that supporting Trump doesn't mean endorsing all of his horrid horrid ways. When assessing a Trumper I always take into account how enthusiastic about him they seem to be, eg how much energy they put into defending him and into attacking like a rottweiler those who do him down. Sort of fair-minded person I am.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 34,507

    What is remarkable to me in the abolition of slavery and the slave trade in the British Empire is that despite fierce opposition, a majority decision was taken to end an extremely lucrative trade on almost solely moral grounds. There are few precedents. I'd say I was proud, but that would imply I'm ashamed of the slave trade that preceded it, which I'm not, not being responsible for either.

    What I also find interesting is that the campaign to extirpate it that followed wasn't just a half-hearted then effort. It was full on in every way. I'm thinking of such things as the enthusiasm with which the RN used the slightest resistance by slavers to charge them with piracy and hang them, among other things.
    You are over egging it a bit!

    After slavery was abolished, the British colonial sugar interest switched to indentured Indian labour (hence the Indian populations of Guyana, Trinidad, Natalie, Mauritius and Fiji) which was exploitative, though not as bad as the triangle trade. It only ended in 1922.

    https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-international-day-for-remembrance-slave-trade-abolition-tells-stories-of-indian-indentured-labourers-5932089/

    There was also the practice of "blackbirding" in the Pacific, which was barely distinguishable from kidnapping, and went on until the 1930s.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbirding

  • eekeek Posts: 21,002
    FF43 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    ..

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    kjh said:

    OK I am going to ask what is probably an idiotic question but I'm struggling to get this gas prices issue. I understand why it happened in the first place but we have had it for a few months now and gas is a commodity type product and not (I believe) something that has a huge timeline in changing supply volumes so why is it still an issue? I appreciate the UK storage issue, but the price issue isn't unique to the UK.

    AIUI gas prices increased worldwide as Asia and Europe competed for LNG as the world restarted industrial boilers coming out of a Covid lull. Normally Europe would revert to Russian gas and leave the more expensive LNG to Asia in that situation. For reasons that are not quite clear, Western Europe is not buying Russian gas on the spot markets and only taking contracted amounts. Is that because Russia is deliberately withholding gas beyond what it is contracted to supply, or is it because the market price of that gas is too high and Western Europe is refusing to buy and instead is running down reserves?

    Despite not consuming much Russian gas the UK is in the same market as the rest of Europe for alternative supplies - Norwegian gas and LNG - and so pays the same prices.
    For reasons not clear Europe isn't buying Russian Gas?

    The Ukraine and Nord Stream 2 are reasons why Russia is playing politics with European gas supplies.
    What is clear, European gas buyers are not prepared to pay the prices Russia is demanding. What isn't clear, whether Russia would actually supply the gas at those prices and also whether it is managing to place the gas which would otherwise be sold to W Europe.
    What evidence do you have for any of the assertions you are making above.

    You may not have noticed the price of none domestic gas but it's currently way higher than it ever used to be.
    Like @kjh I was curious about what was actually going on with gas prices so did some poking around on the web. you can do the same if you wish. It's all AIUI.

    I don't understand your second comment.
    I don't need to check the web beyond looking at current market prices given that they reflect the current price at which gas is being bought and sold - I find it very strange that you claim gas buyers are not prepared to pay the prices Russia is demanding. They may not like paying those prices but they don't have much choice until other supplies become available (which they are as tankers reroute deliveries from the Middle East and elsewhere to Europe).
    They do. They can run down their reserves, which is what they are doing according to the industry publications I read. Obviously only a short term solution. They can also buy LNG gas at Asian prices, which they are also doing as a partial solution. People agree that Russia is continuing to provide contracted amounts of gas

    I have no doubt there is plenty of politics involved in setting prices but there is a real trade-off between supplying smaller amounts of a commodity at a higher price versus bigger amounts at a lower price. There have been perennial arguments at OPEC about that trade-off.

    Should add by returning to my original point. It's possible Russia is actually withholding gas. Not clear.
    Um that was my original point - The Ukraine and Nord Stream 2 are reasons why Russia is playing politics with European gas supplies and so (may be) keeping supply low.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,080

    Mr. Pointer, it's always seemed bizarre to me to feel shame or pride over things one has no control over, or never did.

    Mr. Dancer, I felt quite proud when England won the 1966 World Cup. Although I wasn't selected, being too young at the time, so had no control over it.
  • Dingwall on the DoE mask document:




    @rwjdingwall
    Replying to
    @leoniedelt
    and
    @lensiseethrough
    I admire the professional integrity of the statisticians for putting such weak data in plain sight knowing that anyone with basic skills will then pull it apart, despite the accompanying narrative spinning in line with the policy preferred by their customers.

    Dingwall, huh?

    image
    The Robert Dingwall seen by the HART antivaxxer conspiracy theorists as "friendly" and "on the inside"?
    Yeadon is a cosignatory to Piers Corbyn's claim that the vaccine will kill 90% of people who get it within 18 months, is he not?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 7,235
    Carnyx said:

    This thread has gone for a swim in the Floating Harbour at Bristol.

    Is that at all sensible?
This discussion has been closed.