politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB doing better against the Tories in key marginals than i

France on the other hand is just totally dire, they've got 8 million adults with a problem.

what price le Pen, now......???

MrJones said:

Slackbladder said:

I can't believe it's 7%..7% of British Muslims maybe?

Depends where it's polled. 7% in London might be like 1% outside.

Even if it's 100% in London, and 100% Muslim, it's scary figures.

taffys said:

France on the other hand is just totally dire, they've got 8 million adults with a problem.

what price le Pen, now......???

Indeed.

On the other hand looking at the 15% it sort of raises a question against the old debate on religious schools. If France which has a fairly rigid approach to no religion bar the state, has such a number of disaffected citizens, why is that ?

And why has Germany with a very large Turkish population only got 2% (1.5 million adults ) when the muslim population is about 4 million ?

Smarmeron said:

BBC BREAKING NEWS:

UK police investigating video of James Foley "killing" warn sharing or viewing it online may constitute an offence

Tens of thousands or maybe even hundreds of thousands of people in the UK have probably already watched it. What are they going to do, arrest them all?

Once again, entirely the wrong response.

How about arresting people handing out leaflets in Oxford Street supporting ISIS?

MrJones said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Flightpath said:

Alanbrooke said:

Socrates said:

Jesus. 7% support for ISIS in the UK and the left's reaction to anyone pointing out we have a problem beyond a "tiny minority" with British Muslims is to call those raising concern 'bigots'. Through a combination of mass immigration from backwards places and political correctness, New Labour truly screwed our country. Radical action on immigration is clearly needed. Anyone applying for a visa from a country with widespread extremism should have to go through extended interviews on their political views. Given the crisis we're facing it's too late for hand-wringing about these things.

7% that's getting on for 4 million adults.

Correct and way above the entire muslim population. Since most people do not know their MP do people even know what ISIS is? I have tko say a result like this makes me doubt the point of opinion polls.

I think this is one where the exact questions and tables need looking at!

I cannot believe that 15% of frogs support ISIS either.

What are the demographics of Paris?

Prima donnas 37%
Right bastards 15%
Chauvinists 32%
Tourists 6%
EU citizens 10%

Mr. JS, aye. Threatening general internet users but not those distributing pro-terrorist literature is daft.

Mr. Brooke, but what percentage are cheese-eating surrender monkeys?

The French don't have any figures for ethnicity or religion because they refuse to collect them when doing their censuses.

Life_ina_market_town said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Is it? It sounds bloody silly to me. Is he really suggesting the PM should arbitrarily and without any legal process have powers to remove British citizenship?

It would be up to the courts, not the PM, to take decisions like that, and then only if parliament had granted powers to do so (which AFAIK they haven't).

The Secretary of State already has the power, under s. 40(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981 to remove a person's British citizenship if she is satisfied that it would be conducive to the public good, although she may not exercise that power if it would have the effect of making a person stateless. However, s. 66(1) of the Immigration Act 2014 adds new subsection (4A) to section 40 of the 1981 Act. Subsection (4A) provides that the Secretary of State may, in the case of a naturalised citizen, strip a person of their citizenship if he has conducted himself in a manner seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom, and there are reasonable grounds for believing that the person will be naturalised in a foreign jurisdiction, notwithstanding the fact the removal of his citizenship would make him stateless. The amendment is not yet in force.

In short, these authoritarian powers already exist. The decision is for a Minister of the Crown, not for the courts, albeit it is subject to review by the Special Immigration Appeals Commission. It is amazing how Tories will claim their own views are extreme when they are attributed to UKIP.

Err, what do you mean 'their own views'? Are you referring to me? My views are as I stated, that these things should be decided by the courts. In any case I didn't say Farages's remarks were extreme. I said they were bloody silly.

Thanks for the clarification on the law, all the same. In the particular case of those who have gone to Syria or Iraq to fight with ISIS, I imagine they will in many cases not be naturalised citizens, but born here. That makes Farage's remarks even more bloody silly.

MrJones said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Flightpath said:

Alanbrooke said:

Socrates said:

Jesus. 7% support for ISIS in the UK and the left's reaction to anyone pointing out we have a problem beyond a "tiny minority" with British Muslims is to call those raising concern 'bigots'. Through a combination of mass immigration from backwards places and political correctness, New Labour truly screwed our country. Radical action on immigration is clearly needed. Anyone applying for a visa from a country with widespread extremism should have to go through extended interviews on their political views. Given the crisis we're facing it's too late for hand-wringing about these things.

7% that's getting on for 4 million adults.

Correct and way above the entire muslim population. Since most people do not know their MP do people even know what ISIS is? I have tko say a result like this makes me doubt the point of opinion polls.

I think this is one where the exact questions and tables need looking at!

I cannot believe that 15% of frogs support ISIS either.

What are the demographics of Paris?

Certain parts of Paris are densely inhabited by North Africans.

"British extremists are among the most ‘most vicious and vociferous fighters’ in the Islamic State's ranks in Syria and Iraq, a jihadism expert has said.

Sunni Muslims from the UK are taking part in the conflicts ‘in every way’, according to Shiraz Maher, from King's College London's International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2729594/Brutal-Islamic-State-terrorist-beheaded-US-journalist-WAS-British-Foreign-Secretary-Philip-Hammond-reveals.html

Mr. Town, that became apparent when Brown used anti-terror legislation to freeze assets held by Icelandic banks during the financial crisis.

Envy of the world...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-28869932

Is Burnham going to hide behind that is a Principality matter on which he cannot comment.

A bad day for knackered squirrels has become worse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#mediaviewer/File:UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

Graph updated shows EICIPM AOTS.

Life_ina_market_town said:

DavidL said:

Was that amendment not brought in to overturn the Al-Jedda case where the Supreme Court held that the fact the respondent had chosen not to apply for restoration of his Iraqi citizenship meant that the Secretary of State could not make the order?

I would like to think that the fact that it has not been brought into force indicates some second thoughts.

Yes to your first question. Also, you have my apologies. I was wrong about the commencement. Section 66 was entered into force on 28 July 2014 by virtue of article 3(t) of the Immigration Act 2014 (Commencement No. 1, Transitory and Saving Provisions) Order 2014, S.I. 2014/1820.

Smarmeron said:

BBC BREAKING NEWS:

UK police investigating video of James Foley "killing" warn sharing or viewing it online may constitute an offence

Perhaps one day people will wake up to the huge number of ridiculous thought crimes created under the last Labour government's "anti-terrorism" legislation.

The relevant provision is in s40(4A) but you are right that it came into force on 28th July. Sigh. Another consequence of the cabinet reshuffle earlier that month?

Whilst the idea that some sick b might get pleasure or satisfaction out of watching that video turns my stomach I completely agree with your observations about that.

taffys said:

Some Muslims + extreme left probably number 7%.

If even half of that number are muslims then that means half of all the UK's muslims have some sympathy with IS..???

I thought the vast majority of moderate blah blah blah abhor IS.

Muslims are probably about 4% of British voters. I don't know what proportion support ISIS. A minority, probably, but not an insignificant minority.

That would mean most British supporters of ISIS are non-Muslim, and I would assume that they were extreme left. Wiping out Christians and fighting the West is something they'd side with radical Muslims on.

Peter the Punter, if he is around, and other tax experts on here may be interested in the recent tax case relating to the Fishers and the move of Stan James to Gibraltar in 2000.

http://www.financeandtaxtribunals.gov.uk/Aspx/view.aspx?id=7911

Cyclefree said:

AndyJS said:

"British extremists are among the most ‘most vicious and vociferous fighters’ in the Islamic State's ranks in Syria and Iraq, a jihadism expert has said.

Sunni Muslims from the UK are taking part in the conflicts ‘in every way’, according to Shiraz Maher, from King's College London's International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2729594/Brutal-Islamic-State-terrorist-beheaded-US-journalist-WAS-British-Foreign-Secretary-Philip-Hammond-reveals.html

Why do we have a worse extremist problem than other European countries, if that is the case? And if we do, why?

France may be in a worse position, judging by this poll. They have a bigger Muslim population, mostly drawn from North Africa, and a bigger extreme left than we have.

''Why do we have a worse extremist problem than other European countries, if that is the case? And if we do, why?''

At some juncture, the spotlight will fall on the last labour government in this regard. Ed had better be ready.

taffys said:

''Why do we have a worse extremist problem than other European countries, if that is the case? And if we do, why?''

At some juncture, the spotlight will fall on the last labour government in this regard. Ed had better be ready.

Ed will say as little as possible as he can, like on so many other issues.

He won't be able to do that if he gets into number 10 of course.

MaxPB said:

Extremely disturbing poll.

Disturbing ? I thought it was great, as it shows how much work the Tories have got to do to change peoples minds. What they have got to start doing is saying that they understand peoples concerns about cost of living and what they are doing, which should start to help within the next few years. At the moment the polling is showing that people are not very optimistic, believing that they will be worse off in the coming years.

Smarmeron said:

Sean_F
What is the extreme Rights solution?

Pretty disagreeable I should think.

@taffys
''Why do we have a worse extremist problem than other European countries, if that is the case? And if we do, why?''
Higher levels of social dissatisfaction probably.
Note I am merely stating my opinion on this, not making a political point.

Sean_F said:

Cyclefree said:

AndyJS said:

"British extremists are among the most ‘most vicious and vociferous fighters’ in the Islamic State's ranks in Syria and Iraq, a jihadism expert has said.

Sunni Muslims from the UK are taking part in the conflicts ‘in every way’, according to Shiraz Maher, from King's College London's International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2729594/Brutal-Islamic-State-terrorist-beheaded-US-journalist-WAS-British-Foreign-Secretary-Philip-Hammond-reveals.html

Why do we have a worse extremist problem than other European countries, if that is the case? And if we do, why?

France may be in a worse position, judging by this poll. They have a bigger Muslim population, mostly drawn from North Africa, and a bigger extreme left than we have.

There also more likely to strongly affirm the secular, and their right wing are more inclined to making avowedly anti-Muslim pronouncements. One might then read the apparent extraordinarily high support for IS as a counter-reaction.

Charles said:

malcolmg said:

Charles said:

isam said:

DavidL said:

I fundamentally disagree with the archbishop. The question is do we fight militant Islam by reverting to their standards and savagery or do we fight them by adhering to our own?

I vote the latter.

It is why I am extremely intolerant of us tolerating different cultures in this country which are not consistent with our own values. If Islamic people want to come and live in this country fine. But their women will be respected and have rights. They will dress as they want, go where they want and speak to who they want (I could get more graphic here).

If that is unacceptable to the Islamic community they have the choice. Go and live with the savages or stay here and accept our principles are better.

We are at risk because we have compromised our values. We must stop this although turning the clock back is always more difficult.

If you can be bothered, and can read without prejudice, have a look at Enoch Powell's Birmingham speech of 1968 and "The Road To National Suicide" from 1977

He foresaw what is happening now a long time ago. He knew it was a controversial thing to say openly, but thought it was for the greater good that he did.

He also said "Of all silly sayings, one of the silliest is 'you cant turn the clock back'. Of course you can turn the clock back and we often do. If a clock is showing the wrong time, we turn it back"

No thanks, my grandfather knew him very well and regarded him as a self-opinionate arse with an overly-inflated view of his own intellectual capabilities.
That's good enough for me!

I am sure he thought well of your grandfather who sounds like a lovely chap.

He had his faults, as we all do. He was nearly as acerbic as you sometimes, and didn't tolerate fools lightly. But he faithfully served his country for all his adult life, while also finding time to be a theologian and philosopher.

Still a bit harsh on Enoch though, but if he was like me he cannot have been a bad sort.

MaxPB said:

taffys said:

It won't because Dave is too weak and the major media outlets are too scared.

True but UKIP aren't scared. I bet their people are digging up Labour's best multi-culti pronouncements as we speak.

And where is Farage on all of this? Nowhere. He hasn't made a single speech or comment on the evils of ISIL. He, rightly, is scared of being labelled a racist, the media has beaten UKIP and they have shut Farage up.

One hopes that the Guardian would have learned a lesson when they were abused by those Islamist thugs with the terrorist flag, but instead we have them defending them as "youths" and "misguided".

Where is the BBC article on this poll? Or even more sceptical press like the Telegraph?

To be fair to Farage it was only today that he said these guys should be stripped of their passports.

Slackbladder said:

MaxPB said:

taffys said:

It won't because Dave is too weak and the major media outlets are too scared.

True but UKIP aren't scared. I bet their people are digging up Labour's best multi-culti pronouncements as we speak.

And where is Farage on all of this? Nowhere. He hasn't made a single speech or comment on the evils of ISIL. He, rightly, is scared of being labelled a racist, the media has beaten UKIP and they have shut Farage up.

One hopes that the Guardian would have learned a lesson when they were abused by those Islamist thugs with the terrorist flag, but instead we have them defending them as "youths" and "misguided".

Where is the BBC article on this poll? Or even more sceptical press like the Telegraph?

To be fair to Farage it was only today that he said these guys should be stripped of their passports.

http://www.ukip.org/strip_islamic_state_jihadists_of_british_citizenship

MaxPB said:

taffys said:

It won't because Dave is too weak and the major media outlets are too scared.

True but UKIP aren't scared. I bet their people are digging up Labour's best multi-culti pronouncements as we speak.

And where is Farage on all of this? Nowhere. He hasn't made a single speech or comment on the evils of ISIL. He, rightly, is scared of being labelled a racist, the media has beaten UKIP and they have shut Farage up.

One hopes that the Guardian would have learned a lesson when they were abused by those Islamist thugs with the terrorist flag, but instead we have them defending them as "youths" and "misguided".

Where is the BBC article on this poll? Or even more sceptical press like the Telegraph?

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-08-20/ukip-calls-for-is-fighters-to-be-stripped-of-british-citizenship/

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Max, point of order: whilst Farage has been quiet, today he has asserted Britons fighting for ISIS should be stripped of British citizenship.

Slackbladder said:

MaxPB said:

taffys said:

It won't because Dave is too weak and the major media outlets are too scared.

True but UKIP aren't scared. I bet their people are digging up Labour's best multi-culti pronouncements as we speak.

And where is Farage on all of this? Nowhere. He hasn't made a single speech or comment on the evils of ISIL. He, rightly, is scared of being labelled a racist, the media has beaten UKIP and they have shut Farage up.

One hopes that the Guardian would have learned a lesson when they were abused by those Islamist thugs with the terrorist flag, but instead we have them defending them as "youths" and "misguided".

Where is the BBC article on this poll? Or even more sceptical press like the Telegraph?

To be fair to Farage it was only today that he said these guys should be stripped of their passports.

That's today. What about the last few weeks this has all been happening? What about on Israel and Hamas? Does UKIP support the right of Israel to defend itself from those who seek to destroy it? Would he support a British military intervention in Iraq? These questions remain unanswered because Farage is scared of being labelled an Islamophobe by the media. Farage is as weak as Cameron on this subject because he fears the media reaction.

The poll on ISIS was conducted by ICM Research and the tables can be found here. The fieldwork was conducted between July 11th and July 13th. The relevant data are on p. 2, table 2. The question posed was:

From what you know, please, tell me if you have a very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable or very unfavorable opinion of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant otherwise known as ISIS?

The number of those with a favourable view of ISIS in Great Britain was 7%, in Germany 2% and in France 16%. An extraordinary indictment of the British public.

corporeal said:

Slackbladder said:

corporeal said:

Slackbladder said:

Cyclefree said:

HurstLlama said:

taffys said:

Now, why would the Filth say that?

Our authorities are being desperately wrong-footed on this. It's almost more depressing than what has happened to that poor journalist.

The problem, maybe, is that evidence is emerging that all the multiculturalism nonsense that we have been force-fed for so many years is now being revealed for the nonsense that it always was. Actually not all cultures are equal and nor are all religious beliefs equally benign. If that idea takes off then lots of people (including I would guess 90% of senior police officers) are going to look very silly.

Most sensible people have thought this for years. Unfortunately not enough of them were/are in the Establishment.

Or if they did they met a hail of 'racist/xenophobic/bigots' cry.

I wonder what Mr 'Dem Muslims' tim would make of all this? He's probably not recovered yet from seeing his gorgeous Mr Darling duff up Salmond.

Can I suggest a dose of nuance would be helpful to this topic?

I was. Anyone which mentioned that multiculturalism had/has serious issues is denounced in those terms.

Or are you that blinkered?

I was trying to reply more generally to the conversation.

There's a fair bit of that denouncing that goes on, it's also sometimes correct.

Fair enough... these things can get a bit personal (and I'm guilty of that as well) sometimes.

corporeal said:

I wonder how many of those were don't knows who didn't want to admit it.

"Don't knows" were 29% in Great Britain, 16% in Germany and 23% in the French Republic.

Life_ina_market_town said:

corporeal said:

I wonder how many of those were don't knows who didn't want to admit it.

"Don't knows" were 29% in Great Britain, 16% in Germany and 23% in the French Republic.

Certainly, but as has been mined many times, sometimes people don't like admitting they don't know.

saddened said:

DavidL said:

Life_ina_market_town said:

DavidL said:

Was that amendment not brought in to overturn the Al-Jedda case where the Supreme Court held that the fact the respondent had chosen not to apply for restoration of his Iraqi citizenship meant that the Secretary of State could not make the order?

I would like to think that the fact that it has not been brought into force indicates some second thoughts.

Yes to your first question. Also, you have my apologies. I was wrong about the commencement. Section 66 was entered into force on 28 July 2014 by virtue of article 3(t) of the Immigration Act 2014 (Commencement No. 1, Transitory and Saving Provisions) Order 2014, S.I. 2014/1820.

Smarmeron said:

BBC BREAKING NEWS:

UK police investigating video of James Foley "killing" warn sharing or viewing it online may constitute an offence

Perhaps one day people will wake up to the huge number of ridiculous thought crimes created under the last Labour government's "anti-terrorism" legislation.

Whilst the idea that some sick b might get pleasure or satisfaction out of watching that video turns my stomach I completely agree with your observations about that.

Why sick b? If more people actually did see what the BBC and other outlets insist on describing as an execution, they would be exposed to the reality of what actually occurred. A very brave man who carried himself in a way that I would never have the courage to emulate, being viciously butchered, not executed, by a man who's so indoctrinated in a perversion of a religion that it must be close to a mental illness. It might also encourage, by demand from the public, politicians of all stripes to act not pontificate about what needs to be done.

I meant those that would revel in or glorify this atrocity but I certainly would not want to watch something as horrible as that and I don't think many sane people would. Do you need any more than the description to work out these people are mentally ill and beneath contempt?

The question was whether or not it should be made illegal to watch it. I think not, with said reservations. But I am not even remotely tempted.

Sean_F said:

taffys said:

Some Muslims + extreme left probably number 7%.

If even half of that number are muslims then that means half of all the UK's muslims have some sympathy with IS..???

I thought the vast majority of moderate blah blah blah abhor IS.

Muslims are probably about 4% of British voters. I don't know what proportion support ISIS. A minority, probably, but not an insignificant minority.

That would mean most British supporters of ISIS are non-Muslim, and I would assume that they were extreme left. Wiping out Christians and fighting the West is something they'd side with radical Muslims on.

The question answered went like this:

"From what you know, please, tell me if you have a very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable or very unfavorable opinion of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant otherwise known as ISIS?"

I suspect that if the question asked had been something like this:

"Do you support the objective of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, otherwise known as ISIS, which is to murder every non-muslim who refuses to convert?"

That the answers would have been somewhat different. Thus I conclude that what this poll really tells us is that the general population in Germany is much better informed about world affairs than in the UK - but British respondents are at least willing to admit that they don't know the answer a bit more often than the French.

Surely everyone remembers those frequent polls that expose how poor most people's knowledge is of such things. Take for example this Daily Mail article, which is about history, but the same applies to being able to recognise Cabinet ministers, for example. I'd expect that at least 90% of the contributors to this blog would be able to answer the five questions correctly - just as we would all be able to give a reasonable precis of who ISIL/ISIS/The Islamic State are.

That just goes to show how unusual and unrepresentative the people who contribute to this board are. Most of the 65 people who told ICM they had a favourable view of ISIS will not have known much about them. I would guess that fewer than five of them would even know what the "Levant" was.

Get a grip people. You are not about to be murdered in your beds by one of millions of British Jihadists. Keep Calm and Carry On.

The clear message from this poll – which, of course, is only one survey and all that – is that the English take the view that if you want your independence you should have it. But remember that independence is just that........

So what we see in this poll is really a reaction to repudiation. If you don’t like us then we’re under no obligation to like or help you. It is a reminder, frankly, that the impact - and even importance – of Scottish independence is as much a matter of psychology as of politics. Divorce is an ugly business, especially for the party that didn’t want to initiate the break-up.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/08/english-voters-send-a-message-to-scotland-we-cant-go-on-like-this/

@Hugh
It's the same old smoke and mirrors trick, "New Labour" were doing much the same as well

OblitusSumMe said:

Sean_F said:

taffys said:

Some Muslims + extreme left probably number 7%.

If even half of that number are muslims then that means half of all the UK's muslims have some sympathy with IS..???

I thought the vast majority of moderate blah blah blah abhor IS.

Muslims are probably about 4% of British voters. I don't know what proportion support ISIS. A minority, probably, but not an insignificant minority.

That would mean most British supporters of ISIS are non-Muslim, and I would assume that they were extreme left. Wiping out Christians and fighting the West is something they'd side with radical Muslims on.

The question answered went like this:

"From what you know, please, tell me if you have a very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable or very unfavorable opinion of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant otherwise known as ISIS?"

I suspect that if the question asked had been something like this:

"Do you support the objective of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, otherwise known as ISIS, which is to murder every non-muslim who refuses to convert?"

That the answers would have been somewhat different. Thus I conclude that what this poll really tells us is that the general population in Germany is much better informed about world affairs than in the UK - but British respondents are at least willing to admit that they don't know the answer a bit more often than the French.

Surely everyone remembers those frequent polls that expose how poor most people's knowledge is of such things. Take for example this Daily Mail article, which is about history, but the same applies to being able to recognise Cabinet ministers, for example. I'd expect that at least 90% of the contributors to this blog would be able to answer the five questions correctly - just as we would all be able to give a reasonable precis of who ISIL/ISIS/The Islamic State are.

That just goes to show how unusual and unrepresentative the people who contribute to this board are. Most of the 65 people who told ICM they had a favourable view of ISIS will not have known much about them. I would guess that fewer than five of them would even know what the "Levant" was.

Get a grip people. You are not about to be murdered in your beds by one of millions of British Jihadists. Keep Calm and Carry On.

What you're effectively doing though is therefore questioning any poll with 'do people know what they're talking about?' Which could be applied to nearly anything at all.

Martin Kettle:

Anti-English feeling in Scotland and anti-Scottish feeling in England have generally and happily played little overt part in the independence referendum campaign. Most English and most Scots prefer it that way, for reasons both of high principle and low political calculation. The campaign, by and large, has been positive and high-minded. But the survey is a reminder that the resentments on which reactionary forms of nationalism often thrive, where they exist, can be a two-way street. After 18 September, things may begin to get nastier than most of us would prefer to believe, in Scotland as well as in England.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/20/yes-no-nasty-scottish-referendum

@HurstLlama
I have no problem with the self employed, I do have a problem with it being used as a "cover" to paper over cracks in our economy.

DavidL said:

This is the latest breakdown on employment in the UK: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/publications/re-reference-tables.html?edition=tcm:77-319703

It shows that over the last 12 months total employment has increased by 820K, self employment by 408K and actual employment by 447K. So the increase in self employment is roughly half of the story.

Some of this may be statistical manipulation. More, I suspect, is the ever increasing use of "self employment" by dodgy employers who seek to avoid Employers NI, employment rights and a range of other responsibilities. Many working in call centres, for example, are "self employed" and this is an increasing trend that really should be stopped by more aggressive recovery by HMRC.

"Self employment" is in these circumstances one step down from a zero hours contract. It is an abuse but it does not mean that people are not working. I have recently come across a company that was employing thousands of agency workers on a "self employment" basis so that their real employers could avoid NI. The sums involved were staggering and depressing.

They tried that with IR35. It utterly failed.

Flightpath said:

Allenbrooke says .
''well maybe, but if it's correct then we've got a lot of sick people in the country.
France on the other hand is just totally dire, they've got 8 million adults with a problem. ''

Yes but who are they? Who goes round supporting people being beheaded?
Are people confusing with Gaza?
But anyway the damage is done - the poll will just encourage rightwing loonies to howl blue nurder at left wing loonies and religious maniacs (although really I wonder how much is religion and how much just plain maniac.)

When you say 8 million with a problem are you not playing the extremists game for them by lumping all one sector into an amorphous identical like-thinking group

Are you not playing their game by trying to hide the problem ?

Personally free speech wins out for me even if it is inconvenient to some.

OblitusSumMe said:

I suspect that if the question asked had been something like this:

"Do you support the objective of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, otherwise known as ISIS, which is to murder every non-muslim who refuses to convert?"...
Get a grip people. You are not about to be murdered in your beds by one of millions of British Jihadists. Keep Calm and Carry On.

That is not the policy of the Caliphate. Christians and Jews are nominally tolerated if they give allegiance to the Islamic State, accept dhimmi status, and pay the jiyza. Understandably, very few Christians or Jews have been prepared or able to fulfil these conditions. It is not a question about whether many British people are about to be murdered in their beds by the soldiers of the Prince of the Faithful. The issue is the support for, or indifference to a barbarous state built on a messianic totalitarian ideology, on the part of a substantial number of British subjects.

Slackbladder said:

OblitusSumMe said:

The question answered went like this:

"From what you know, please, tell me if you have a very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable or very unfavorable opinion of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant otherwise known as ISIS?"

I suspect that if the question asked had been something like this:

"Do you support the objective of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, otherwise known as ISIS, which is to murder every non-muslim who refuses to convert?"

That the answers would have been somewhat different. Thus I conclude that what this poll really tells us is that the general population in Germany is much better informed about world affairs than in the UK - but British respondents are at least willing to admit that they don't know the answer a bit more often than the French.

Surely everyone remembers those frequent polls that expose how poor most people's knowledge is of such things. Take for example this Daily Mail article, which is about history, but the same applies to being able to recognise Cabinet ministers, for example. I'd expect that at least 90% of the contributors to this blog would be able to answer the five questions correctly - just as we would all be able to give a reasonable precis of who ISIL/ISIS/The Islamic State are.

That just goes to show how unusual and unrepresentative the people who contribute to this board are. Most of the 65 people who told ICM they had a favourable view of ISIS will not have known much about them. I would guess that fewer than five of them would even know what the "Levant" was.

Get a grip people. You are not about to be murdered in your beds by one of millions of British Jihadists. Keep Calm and Carry On.

What you're effectively doing though is therefore questioning any poll with 'do people know what they're talking about?' Which could be applied to nearly anything at all.

Well, not really. I'm saying not to obsess about small numbers in any poll.

After all, if you look at the unfavourable scores then you see that they are 64% [GB], 82% [Germany] and 62% [France], so probably a majority in each country know who ISIS are and don't like it.