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The big challenge for BoJo is that Starmer isn’t Corbyn – politicalbetting.com

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  • Saw new Bond yesterday.

    I have to say the dialogue I thought was absolutely horrendous, the worst of the Craig era for that. So clunky and just didn't flow at all. Flat delivery of the lines also did not help.

    Still not the worst Craig film, that still goes to QoS for me.

    I watched Casino Royale last night, that film is a 10/10 to this day, it's so much better than anything that came after it. I feel like it promised something that the films after never were quite able to match.

    I hope they reboot it and bring it back to Casino Royale's gritty realism.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,737
    Carnyx said:

    We don't have enough abattoirs at present even without closures. They're too thinly scattered as it is.
    Agreed.

    There's a big opportunity for some farm based or even mobile abbatoirs.

    Requires us to diverge from some EU regulations, which should imo be a suitable opportunity for this.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,675
    More signs from Shapps that HS2 Eastern leg will never be built.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399

    Part of me agrees with this.

    Wayne Couzens will keep at least a third of his police pension because rules do not allow him to be stripped of the full amount, The Times has learnt.

    Home Office guidelines state that an individual’s pension cannot be forfeited by more than 65 per cent, the amount that relates to the contributions made by the police force and therefore the public purse.

    It adds that at least four judges, in separate cases about pensions, concluded that it would be wrong to take the remaining 35 per cent as it represented the officer’s own contributions from their salary. To strip any of that would be a “clear infringement of the officer’s rights” under the European Convention on Human Rights.



    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/killer-can-keep-at-least-one-third-of-his-police-pension-lvvbdqp96

    Makes sense, everything he contributes himself can be kept, but the employer contributions are removable.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,580
    HYUFD said:

    Mind you still some achievement, only one party has won a general election after ten years in power since universal suffrage in 1918. Major's Tories in 1992
    I think it might be what happens to the LDs in the South that swings it against the Conservatives. I suspect even on today's figures in the RedWall, Johnson has the skills to turn those seats back the way of the Conservatives.

    If he starts to struggle in the RedWall, Johnson's golden goose is a referendum for the restoration of capital punishment.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,737
    edited October 2021
    eek said:

    +1, unless you are in early enough ( before the company takes off) share options rarely generate much money.
    Yes - paid for my new conservatory on the same basis from dad's tiny stake in the original float.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    edited October 2021
    dixiedean said:

    Indeed. Is discriminating between movie star looks with an athlete's body and somewhat obese and ugly to be regarded as just like prejudice against religion or race?
    Everyone would like to date people with movie star looks and an athletic body, at least for short term relationships, however most of us do not have movie star looks so are not of interest to people who do have movie star looks.

    Unless you are a multi millionaire or billionaire with average or below average looks you are not going to be attractive to most with movie star looks unless you are also a 9 or 10 looks wise
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278

    I think it might be what happens to the LDs in the South that swings it against the Conservatives. I suspect even on today's figures in the RedWall, Johnson has the skills to turn those seats back the way of the Conservatives.

    If he starts to struggle in the RedWall, Johnson's golden goose is a referendum for the restoration of capital punishment.
    If Starmer does become PM it will most likely be because of LD and SNP gains from the Conservatives as well as a few Labour gains.

    I cannot see Starmer regaining most of the Redwall to get Labour most seats or a majority
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    IshmaelZ said:

    Which, slice it how you like, was the purest form of arbitrage against UK workers.
    Exactly. Big business were just buying and selling labour as if it were an index they could arb on the futures market, and now it’s all over they don’t know what to do.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872
    MattW said:

    Yes - paid for my new conservatory on the same basis from dad's tiny stake in the original float.
    One law change I'd like to see: no special terms on options for management over other staff, e.g. early vesting dates, better price. That's really abusive, and can tempt management into short term **** that shafts the other staff.

    (Yep, I fell victim to this...)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,296
    kjh said:

    I can't deal with someone who is irrational in day to day life conversations, but once you get to the point where you are throwing saucepans at each other I am more tolerant.
    Ah, I see, yes makes sense now. Way I was reading it was that you particularly dislike people who are mentally wild the whole time except during an argument when they suddenly become cool as cucumbers. And I was struggling to imagine such a person. Michael Gove, I suppose, might fit that bill. Easy to see him going nuts in a club, making a connection, then once ensconced tete-a-tete in a quiet corner treating his companion to a calm and methodical analysis of how the UK was being held back, economically and culturally, by its membership of the European Union.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278
    edited October 2021
    TimS said:

    Some very interesting content in this series of posts, which has got me thinking more about the journey the conservatives have been on.

    Yesterday you made some - seemingly tongue in cheek - remarks along the lines of ladies cycling to holy communion, farms shops and so on. There is a rich and long established mercantilist, anti-free trade tradition in the Tory party dating back to the corn laws and beyond. This is the traditional ideology of the landed class on which the party was based. Some of the rhetoric now (possibly accidentally) coming from ministers could arguably look like a return to the old roots. This would make the politics our version of Gaullism - protect the domestic producers, don't be shy of red tape, and encourage a society of artisan production, with state control over heavy industry.

    At the same time other forces are at work in the party too. The populism that sees the EU as the enemy (e.g. Truss neglecting even to mention the bloc among the UK's allies), rails against the urban elites and seeks out a bonfire of regulations. That's a different tradition - to keep with the French theme it's what they would call Poujadisme - the politics of Pierre Poujade. Its British archetype is the White Van Man. That + a hint of cronyism and we're also in the world of Berlusconi. This is a very different tradition from the old Tory one above.

    Both of these share one thing in common though which is the protection of the small producer - the artisan, the yeoman farmer, the tradesman - and the skilled manual employee. The trouble is, as people have noted, for this to work for the client group it represents you need protection from both imported labour and imported goods, otherwise the latter will undercut domestic production. At the moment we have one and not the other and that feels inherently unstable. Either you go the free trade route and keep labour on tap, or you go properly protectionist.

    There is one magic bullet that would resolve the conundrum, which is automation and technological innovation. Then you see wage growth and margin growth while costs remain competitive. I'm just not sure where and how that will come about here, but we do desperately need it and for that we need major catch up capital investment by business.
    Personally I consider myself a British Gaullist to some extent. Trump combined some elements of Gaullist economics with Poujadist populism. That is now largely the conservative coalition in much of the western world.

    Automation is effective if it keeps down costs without rising unemployment.

    Andrew Neil talking about the new Tory coalition on BBC2 now
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kinabalu said:

    The article seems offended that 94% of Ivy League female students wouldn't date a Trumper. But why? That ought to be a high figure and it's good to see it is. It shows the right sort of young women, those with both brains and high personal standards, are getting into top colleges over there. Trump supporters are likely to be thick and bigoted. Who wants to date somebody like that if they can avoid it? It's not prejudiced to say this, it's the plain and simple truth. They like Donald Trump, ffs. I mean, c'mon, that's a 'tell' if ever there was one, and you have to draw the line somewhere. Some Trumpers will be ok, of course, and it's important to say so, but it makes perfect sense to screen them out if you're time limited (which I'm guessing these Ivy League types will be).
    "Trump supporters are likely to be thick and bigoted. Who wants to date somebody like that if they can avoid it? It's not prejudiced to say this, it's the plain and simple truth."

    Nothing like a bit of old-fashioned prejudice. I remember when people used to trot out the line that young Black men were criminals and, when challenged, said "it's the plain and simple truth".
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Interesting header. It has long been my view that the Brexit obsessed Tory right has convinced itself of a lie: that ex-labour voters either voted Tory or abstained because of Brexit. That data clearly shows that that was minority interest: the real driver was Corbyn. Now they have "got Brexit done" and gotten rid of Corbyn, why will that demographic vote Tory? Maybe some of them like having a bit of a clown for their PM?

    Three English by elections since Corbyn left as leader, and Labour got their worst vote share ever in all three. The vote repellent has gone, so why was their share so historically bad, three times over?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872
    Farooq said:

    Aberdeenshire, yesterday. Filled up with no problems. No queues or restrictions. Didn't see any other petrol stations, so 1 good from 1.
    Just checked: one was Esso, the other Shell.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,203
    edited October 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Personally I consider myself a British Gaullist to some extent. Trump combined some elements of Gaullist economics with Poujadist populism. That is now largely the conservative coalition in much of the western world.

    Automation is effective if it keeps down costs without rising unemployment.

    Andrew Neil talking about the new Tory coalition on BBC2 now
    No true Tory/Brit would ever compare themselves to any French person, least of all De Gaulle.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    You haven't read the article, have you?
    It is a well written article, but I am feeling rather exhausted with these culture wars and couldn't even get to the end of it. It feels like the 'progressive authoritarians' have won, and they get to decide everything, including what is and isn't acceptable debate. A lot of people voted for Trump not because they abuse women (as alluded to above) but because they see they are faced with a choice between one form of authoritarianism and another; and simply think that Trump is less dangerous. It is worth doing more to try and understand this perspective, but there is no sign that progressives will embark on such a process, thus perpetuating the existing polarisation that is likely to lead eventually to catastrophic outcomes for the US.

    Looking over here, PB is a great website for much discussion but on certain issues it rapidly descends in to a progressive/authoritarian echo chamber, as people with contrary views withdraw from the debate - it is a similar process at play.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,296
    Pulpstar said:

    It's an absolute nonsense, people can date who they like - the same horseshit has been used about people (Mainly lesbians it seems) that won't date trans.
    There's no human right that you have to be dated by anyone, you can discriminate on colour, political preferences, gender, trans, baldness - whatever the hell basis you like.
    That's true. But it's also nonsense imo to equate screening out Trumpers from your romantic life to screening out, say, Jews. The first is mainly about values, the second is mainly about identity.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818
    So did Sunak have anything at all of interest to say?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,278

    No true Tory/Brit would ever compare themselves to any French person, least of all De Gaulle.
    Some of my ancestors were French Huguenots, I am a little bit French genetically
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,243
    Fishing said:

    Absolutely right. But don't forget the biggest benefit of #3 - that failing businesses in low productivity areas leads to labour and capital being redeployed to more productive and efficient sectors.
    Yes absolutely.

    One of the main missing pieces at the moment seems to the provision of employee training for those that are changing industries. It'd be good to see some kind of framework or tax incentives to encourage more in-work training.

    Otherwise we just need to treat this part of our economy as an opioid addict. Provide relief to deal with the worst of the withdrawal symptoms, but don't stop the detox.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,296
    MrEd said:

    "Trump supporters are likely to be thick and bigoted. Who wants to date somebody like that if they can avoid it? It's not prejudiced to say this, it's the plain and simple truth."

    Nothing like a bit of old-fashioned prejudice. I remember when people used to trot out the line that young Black men were criminals and, when challenged, said "it's the plain and simple truth".
    Whenever I'm in the vicinity of False Equivalence Alley, Ed, and I decide to pop my head around the corner and take a quick look, just to satisfy my curiosity, guess who I very often see loitering there?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    TimS said:

    Some very interesting content in this series of posts, which has got me thinking more about the journey the conservatives have been on.

    Yesterday you made some - seemingly tongue in cheek - remarks along the lines of ladies cycling to holy communion, farms shops and so on. There is a rich and long established mercantilist, anti-free trade tradition in the Tory party dating back to the corn laws and beyond. This is the traditional ideology of the landed class on which the party was based. Some of the rhetoric now (possibly accidentally) coming from ministers could arguably look like a return to the old roots. This would make the politics our version of Gaullism - protect the domestic producers, don't be shy of red tape, and encourage a society of artisan production, with state control over heavy industry.

    At the same time other forces are at work in the party too. The populism that sees the EU as the enemy (e.g. Truss neglecting even to mention the bloc among the UK's allies), rails against the urban elites and seeks out a bonfire of regulations. That's a different tradition - to keep with the French theme it's what they would call Poujadisme - the politics of Pierre Poujade. Its British archetype is the White Van Man. That + a hint of cronyism and we're also in the world of Berlusconi. This is a very different tradition from the old Tory one above.

    Both of these share one thing in common though which is the protection of the small producer - the artisan, the yeoman farmer, the tradesman - and the skilled manual employee. The trouble is, as people have noted, for this to work for the client group it represents you need protection from both imported labour and imported goods, otherwise the latter will undercut domestic production. At the moment we have one and not the other and that feels inherently unstable. Either you go the free trade route and keep labour on tap, or you go properly protectionist.

    There is one magic bullet that would resolve the conundrum, which is automation and technological innovation. Then you see wage growth and margin growth while costs remain competitive. I'm just not sure where and how that will come about here, but we do desperately need it and for that we need major catch up capital investment by business.
    Cheers for that well thought out piece @TimS. Just some thoughts / comments:

    1. Tory opposition to the repeal of the Corn Laws mainly came from the landowning classes out of a desire to protect their own interests, not to help the smaller farmers (who had far less political influence then);

    2. There is an interesting argument that the UK's dominance in the world stems from the embracing of free trade as it allowed new entrants a foothold and therefore a platform to grow from. I think there is a lot in that argument. In fact, if you want a prime example, look at the US - arguably one of the most protectionist markets out there when it comes to a lot of goods;

    3. I wouldn't say the Government's stance against the EU is necessarily populist, I think it is more driven by the (probably correct) view that the EU will, by default, act against the UK's interests post-Brexit and that the only way to get any sort of equitable treatment is to play and sound tough. I'd argue most people want a friendly relationship with the UK but not at the expense of the UK being walked over
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818
    Ratters said:

    Yes absolutely.

    One of the main missing pieces at the moment seems to the provision of employee training for those that are changing industries. It'd be good to see some kind of framework or tax incentives to encourage more in-work training.

    Otherwise we just need to treat this part of our economy as an opioid addict. Provide relief to deal with the worst of the withdrawal symptoms, but don't stop the detox.
    The wholesale closing of FE colleges, casualisation of the staff and sky high fee increases really hasn't helped with this.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,314
    kinabalu said:

    Ah, I see, yes makes sense now. Way I was reading it was that you particularly dislike people who are mentally wild the whole time except during an argument when they suddenly become cool as cucumbers. And I was struggling to imagine such a person. Michael Gove, I suppose, might fit that bill. Easy to see him going nuts in a club, making a connection, then once ensconced tete-a-tete in a quiet corner treating his companion to a calm and methodical analysis of how the UK was being held back, economically and culturally, by its membership of the European Union.
    I think such a person would fail criteria g) Those who are just a bit too weird.

    I have a firm view that once you start throwing saucepans at one another then irrationality is a given. Otherwise it is not allowed.
  • HYUFD said:

    Some of my ancestors were French Huguenots, I am a little bit French genetically
    I know you're happily loved up now, but when you were out on the pull you could have tried the old Phil Lynott line.
    'Are there any girls here tonight with a bit of French in them? Are there any girls here that would like a little bit more French in them?'
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kinabalu said:

    Whenever I'm in the vicinity of False Equivalence Alley, Ed, and I decide to pop my head around the corner and take a quick look, just to satisfy my curiosity, guess who I very often see loitering there?
    Kinablu, it's prejudice, simple as. Nobody here would accept such language if it was made in reference to other groups. And your "it's the plain and simple truth" is straight out of the "my best mate is black" textbook of excuses for making such comments.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818
    MrEd said:

    Kinablu, it's prejudice, simple as. Nobody here would accept such language if it was made in reference to other groups. And your "it's the plain and simple truth" is straight out of the "my best mate is black" textbook of excuses for making such comments.
    There is, of course, a world of difference between prejudice and irrational or unfair prejudice.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818
    dixiedean said:

    So did Sunak have anything at all of interest to say?

    Obviously not a great deal.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,296
    edited October 2021
    isam said:

    Three English by elections since Corbyn left as leader, and Labour got their worst vote share ever in all three. The vote repellent has gone, so why was their share so historically bad, three times over?
    Brexit was a bigger and deeper reason than Corbyn for the terrible GE19 performance. By similar token, Brexit was a bigger and deeper reason than Corbyn for the good GE17 performance. Corbyn haters push the 2nd of these truths and deny the 1st. Corbyn fans deny the 2nd and push the 1st.

    As for this debate, you are correct that Starmer is doing badly, and looks likely to lose the next GE, but imo you overplay the point because you project too much of your own feelings into it. Eg making out that his previous 'Remainerdom' is a big problem (it isn't, it's your other thing 'charisma'), and here, where you're implying Starmer has gone backwards from GE19. Not so. He hasn't. The polls say he hasn't, as do those byelections when you think about the circumstances, the Woollens, Galloway, the LibDem tactical voting.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    How's that contradictory?

    If third world wages are to be paid, they should be paid to people living in the third world. Not the UK.

    Yes it is better to import products than import minimum wage people, who are then paid housing benefit and universal credit in order to live while driving up costs here.
    How do you pay people first world wages if you are importing everything. if you want first world wages you either need to produce and export at first world prices or buy all your own stuff that you produced on first world wages. Your solutions are for dummies unable to grasp that changing £20 notes for £10 notes is not viable for long.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,922

    No they won't, if they're productive they'll stay.

    What will go is the £9.12 per hour jobs being advertised.

    Do you think its acceptable to expect a night shift job for difficult work to be filled for £9.12 per hour?
    Are you really as stupid as you make out. You actually think they will keep the ones on £30K + and bag the £9 an hour ones. FFS how can anyone be so thick.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited October 2021
    New thread.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,737

    More signs from Shapps that HS2 Eastern leg will never be built.

    That will lose my Red Wall MP any possi
    TimS said:

    That seems a strange comment.

    The President of the European Commission herself, Ursula von der Leyen, is of the opinion that we are not amongst the EU's closest allies.

    This is the relevant section from her "State of the EU 2021" speech, made on 15/9/2021.

    https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/default/files/soteu_2021_address_en_0.pdf
    Honourable Members,
    In a more contested world, protecting your interests is not only about defending yourself.
    It is about forging strong and reliable partnerships. This is not a luxury – it is essential for
    our future stability, security and prosperity.
    This work starts by deepening our partnership with our closest allies.
    With the US we will develop our new agenda for global change – from the new Trade and
    Technology Council to health security and sustainability.
    The EU and the US will always be stronger – together.
    The same is true of our neighbours in the Western Balkans.
    Before the end of the month, I will travel to the region to send a strong signal of our
    commitment to the accession process. We owe it to all those young people who
    believe in a European future.
    This is why we are ramping up our support through our new investment and economic plan,
    worth around a third of the region’s GDP. Because an investment in the future of the
    Western Balkans is an investment in the future of the EU.
    And we will also continue investing in our partnerships across our neighbourhood – from
    stepping up our engagement in the Eastern Partnership to implementing the new Agenda
    for the Mediterranean and continuing to work on the different aspects of our relationship
    with Turkey.


    Note that this is not part of the French submarine tantrum, and Brussels cutting its nose off in support, as AUKUS was announced on the 16/9/2021.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,737
    (Sorry, quotes rather buggered above)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    kinabalu said:

    The article seems offended that 94% of Ivy League female students wouldn't date a Trumper. But why? That ought to be a high figure and it's good to see it is. It shows the right sort of young women, those with both brains and high personal standards, are getting into top colleges over there. Trump supporters are likely to be thick and bigoted. Who wants to date somebody like that if they can avoid it? It's not prejudiced to say this, it's the plain and simple truth.
    You've literally just given a masterclass in what prejudice is.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    kinabalu said:

    Whenever I'm in the vicinity of False Equivalence Alley, Ed, and I decide to pop my head around the corner and take a quick look, just to satisfy my curiosity, guess who I very often see loitering there?
    I dunno? You?

    You're brilliant at assuming rank prejudice in others who you don't agree with whilst believing you're totally free of it yourself.

    It's a masterclass in cognitive dissonance.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    Farooq said:

    I wouldn't date someone who was more than faintly religious. Nothing wrong with that. If someone wants to throw the word "prejudice" around, it's their prerogative to be wrong.
    But, you might not put it as an as absolute "red line" on your dating profile, right? You'd at least be willing to go out on a date to talk to and listen to her first?

    This is the crucial factor here: we don't rule out people immediately based on our own pre-judgements without getting to know them first.

    This isn't saying we can't have views on our preferred mates; it's saying we give them the benefit of the doubt and view them in the round as individual people.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110

    But, you might not put it as an as absolute "red line" on your dating profile, right? You'd at least be willing to go out on a date to talk to and listen to her first?

    This is the crucial factor here: we don't rule out people immediately based on our own pre-judgements without getting to know them first.

    This isn't saying we can't have views on our preferred mates; it's saying we give them the benefit of the doubt and view them in the round as individual people.
    Why the hell would anyone sane be willing to go on a date and talk to a Trumpite?

    Life is way too short.

    There may be something in the idea that making it a key tenet of your Tinder profile is annoyingly performative, but as far as I can tell the youth have always been a bit performative.

    Likening it to anti-Semitism?
    Get a grip.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,737
    edited October 2021

    Why the hell would anyone sane be willing to go on a date and talk to a Trumpite?

    Life is way too short.

    There may be something in the idea that making it a key tenet of your Tinder profile is annoyingly performative, but as far as I can tell the youth have always been a bit performative.

    Likening it to anti-Semitism?
    Get a grip.
    Guardian's obsessed with racism in dating:

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/jan/13/black-woman-always-fetishised-racism-in-bedroom
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/sep/29/wltm-colour-blind-dating-app-racial-discrimination-grindr-tinder-algorithm-racism
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/apr/09/tinder-dating-queer-dark-skinned-black-woman
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/oct/28/racism-and-online-dating
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/feb/29/dating-in-age-of-apps-sex-with-a-black-man-on-bucket-list-ben-arogundade
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/aug/11/my-search-for-mr-woke-a-dating-diary
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2018/jun/26/single-black-female-love-island-the-problem-with-race-and-dating

    And nearly all of the pieces are by wimminz.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047

    Why the hell would anyone sane be willing to go on a date and talk to a Trumpite?

    Life is way too short.

    There may be something in the idea that making it a key tenet of your Tinder profile is annoyingly performative, but as far as I can tell the youth have always been a bit performative.

    Likening it to anti-Semitism?
    Get a grip.
    There's a difference between someone who voted Republican in the Presidential election of 2016 or even 2020 and a "Trump supporter" who marched on the Capitol.

    To suggest there's full equivalence is just prejudice.

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,118
    edited October 2021

    But, you might not put it as an as absolute "red line" on your dating profile, right? You'd at least be willing to go out on a date to talk to and listen to her first?

    This is the crucial factor here: we don't rule out people immediately based on our own pre-judgements without getting to know them first.

    This isn't saying we can't have views on our preferred mates; it's saying we give them the benefit of the doubt and view them in the round as individual people.
    Right, my initial pre-judgement on someone who said they were a Trump supporter is that they would be: selfish, misogynist, racist, and inclined to accept conspiracy theories. Not attractive to me.

    However, I must allow that it's possible someone would be loving, caring and generous, but somehow rationalise supporting Trump, perhaps by elevating one issue above all others (e.g. Isolationism, or opposition to the Clinton dynasty).

    If asked the question I would probably say that I wouldn't date a Trump supporter, but I'm making the assumptions in my first paragraph, and there's diversity even among Trump supporters. They won't all be the same, even if enough of them are similar enough that a stereotype works most of the time.
  • I can't stand people that put politics on their dating profiles, instant swipe left for me. It is irrelevant
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047

    Right, my initial pre-judgement on someone who said they were a Trump supporter is that they would be: selfish, misogynist, racist, and inclined to accept conspiracy theories. Not attractive to me.

    However, I must allow that it's possible someone would be loving, caring and generous, but somehow rationalise supporting Trump, perhaps by elevating one issue above all others (e.g. Isolationism, or opposition to the Clinton dynasty).

    If asked the question I would probably say that I wouldn't date a Trump supporter, but I'm making the assumptions in my first paragraph, and there's diversity even among Trump supporters. They won't all be the same, even if enough of them are similar enough that a stereotype works most of the time.
    I think a lot of perfectly normal and ordinary Americans voted for Trump, just as Britons did for Brexit.

    It's instructive to me that dating preferences are far more open-minded the other way round, despite both camps not having much time for uber-Woke Democrats or ultra-Remainers.
This discussion has been closed.