Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Pence for the 2024 nomination looks a good bet at 14/1 – politicalbetting.com

1235

Comments

  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    eek said:

    Woke is business friendly - non-woke is politically incorrect which means you could upset potential customers.

    Yes I do know that a lot of customers are non-woke but targetting them has a habit of upsetting people who know how linkedIn's banning algorithms work.
    Businesses like being woke because it is a largely cost free way of showing they are progressive, giving them much more slack for paying low wages and helping support authoritarian regimes.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Aslan said:

    Businesses like being woke because it is a largely cost free way of showing they are progressive, giving them much more slack for paying low wages and helping support authoritarian regimes.
    I am still waiting for one of these big international companies who speak up for racial justice in the US to comment on the Uighur concentration camps in China.
  • dixiedean said:

    Or that high volume urban stores are prioritised for deliveries?
    Stores here have apology notices up prominently.
    Only one I've seen in Newcastle was in KFC.
    The Aldi way of doing supermarkets is probably more robust to delivery SNAFUs. One brand/size of most products, we'll sell you a kayak but only for two weeks of the year, that sort of thing. The model most UK shoppers seem to prefer has a lot more product choice, which gives more potential to go wrong. Nobody is going to starve, but the system is no longer working happily. As always, the nation can either ignore the red flashing lights or ignore them. You can make a case either way.

    (Anecdata: after a couple of weeks where things seemed to be improving, Tesco home delivery are back to having 20% or so of my usuals unavailable.)
  • TOPPING said:

    Hope you picked up a couple of bottles of their champagne. It's excellent. Oooh. Just looked. It has gone up from £12.99 to £13.49 in a few months.

    Has you weekly (?) shop at Aldi changed price?
    I couldn't tell you. I'm eclectic with my shopping, I don't like having the same things regularly so I'm always changing what I purchase depending upon what mood I'm in. Shop at multiple supermarkets as a result too. Today I only nipped out for coffee, milk and bread.

    My main staple I buy regularly from Aldi is their own brand version of Dolce Gusto coffee pods. They're excellent and I prefer them over the name branded or even Starbucks branded coffee pods. Those haven't changed price they've been £2.50 per box of 16 pods since my bean machine broke down and I switched to pods a couple of years ago. I typically spend £20 on coffee per shop.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470
    Aslan said:

    I suspect there is a split between smaller stores who understand the new state of affairs means better pay and conditions for their low wage workers. The bigger, more British ones have relationships into government and reckon they can lobby the powers that be to bail them out and let in a whole bunch more Eastern Europeans.
    Apparently it is a mix of corporate level "We pay X, the conditions are Y. Take it or leave it" and the mentality that business cannot adapt to changing conditions.

    The later attitude has to be seen to be believed. I spoke to one chap who couldn't invest in automation for his business, wouldn't etc. Said business can be (part) automated with off the shelf solutions. It wasn't lack of money either. It was just that his business used cheap labour - he would use cheap labour, and *wouldn't* adapt, because that is what he had always done....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    MattW said:

    The supervisor at my local Aldi (of which we have six) reported that they are not offering decent wage boosts to drivers. Quoted £14 per hour.

    Strange, as they are top payer for other staff.

    £14/hr is not too bad for local deliveries, no? c.£30k salary on a full-time basis.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited September 2021
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751
    ping said:
    I find it genuinely astonishing that our political class could ever be short of wind but that appears to be the case.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751
    MaxPB said:

    Yup, the best ones are when Amazon and such do all of that rainbow shite. They get away with industrial scale tax avoidance, horrible working conditions and loss-leading with their storefront to hollow out local competitors and local high streets. But it's all good, they have rainbows on their website so who gives a fuck about all that.
    You're way too nice about them.
  • Mr. Max, it always puzzles me when I see women-led or the like on business entries on Googlemaps.

    It's not a problem, but obviously a business has to be 'led' by men or women...

    On voting: EHV is the optimal system. Enormo-haddock voting eliminates human error by removing humans from the voting process. It's a sensible policy for a happier Britain.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,138
    On the subject of Emma and her Britishness we nearly had a similar case in the UCI World Championships. In the Women's Junior Time Trial this morning Zoe Backstedt won a silver medal. Her father was a Swedish pro cyclist and is a Eurosport commentator. She identifies as Welsh (after her mother) but competes for GB.
  • The Aldi way of doing supermarkets is probably more robust to delivery SNAFUs. One brand/size of most products, we'll sell you a kayak but only for two weeks of the year, that sort of thing. The model most UK shoppers seem to prefer has a lot more product choice, which gives more potential to go wrong. Nobody is going to starve, but the system is no longer working happily. As always, the nation can either ignore the red flashing lights or ignore them. You can make a case either way.

    (Anecdata: after a couple of weeks where things seemed to be improving, Tesco home delivery are back to having 20% or so of my usuals unavailable.)
    TBH I don't think its true that shoppers prefer more choice. They want choice, but not as much as they get offered. A huge fixture with 12 different kinds of lentils will not only sell very little volume in that space, the more different items you add in the less you sell.

    Aldi and Lidl sometimes push the proven less is more approach too far, but they have the right balance. Which is why they have had sustained strong growth and the big supermarkets haven't.
  • Oh good. We won the right to re-arrange the deckchairs on the Titanic.
    LOL. What a pessimist you are. Thankfully your view is very wide of the mark.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    edited September 2021

    I couldn't tell you. I'm eclectic with my shopping, I don't like having the same things regularly so I'm always changing what I purchase depending upon what mood I'm in. Shop at multiple supermarkets as a result too. Today I only nipped out for coffee, milk and bread.

    My main staple I buy regularly from Aldi is their own brand version of Dolce Gusto coffee pods. They're excellent and I prefer them over the name branded or even Starbucks branded coffee pods. Those haven't changed price they've been £2.50 per box of 16 pods since my bean machine broke down and I switched to pods a couple of years ago. I typically spend £20 on coffee per shop.
    Sounds interesting I'm always after some good coffee. Are they the Alcafe ones?

    Edit: found them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470

    Mr. Max, it always puzzles me when I see women-led or the like on business entries on Googlemaps.

    It's not a problem, but obviously a business has to be 'led' by men or women...

    On voting: EHV is the optimal system. Enormo-haddock voting eliminates human error by removing humans from the voting process. It's a sensible policy for a happier Britain.

    Enormo-haddock voting eliminates human error by removing humans from the voting process.

    Fixed that for you.

    In the US, government contracts are given out with preference to various groups. A chap who was doing business in the aerospace sector semi-seriously joked that since he married his wife (Native American, veteran, on disability from war wounds) and made her co-owner of his business, he was unable to lose a bid for a contract for government related work.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    MaxPB said:

    Yup, the best ones are when Amazon and such do all of that rainbow shite. They get away with industrial scale tax avoidance, horrible working conditions and loss-leading with their storefront to hollow out local competitors and local high streets. But it's all good, they have rainbows on their website so who gives a fuck about all that.
    Yes, and also looks good with the

    Apparently it is a mix of corporate level "We pay X, the conditions are Y. Take it or leave it" and the mentality that business cannot adapt to changing conditions.

    The later attitude has to be seen to be believed. I spoke to one chap who couldn't invest in automation for his business, wouldn't etc. Said business can be (part) automated with off the shelf solutions. It wasn't lack of money either. It was just that his business used cheap labour - he would use cheap labour, and *wouldn't* adapt, because that is what he had always done....
    The U.K. business environment pre-Brexit was incredibly generous to big business:

    1. Declining corporation tax rates reducing the amounts businesses paid;

    2. Tax credits available to all, including immigrants, which allowed low paying industries to get by on the minimum wage with workers able to top up with the help of the Government;

    3. Opening the doors to immigration.

    Ironically, we all heard from very many ardent Remainers pre-Brexit that the argument drove down wages was a Brexit fallacy and there was no evidence for it. Well, looks like we are getting the evidence now…
  • Mr. Pioneers, I don't think you're entirely wrong but I do think the reduction in the middle class by globalisation (very wealthy becoming richer and many of those of average or lower incomes becoming poorer due to competition) may also have a role in the recent success of Aldi and Lidl.

    I remember Netto, and anyone at school thought to shop there got the absolute shit ripped out of them.
  • So it looks like the Labour conference will be a series of running battles between Starmer and the Trot left. Starmer reintroducing the Bennite electoral college is being denounced as anti-democratic.

    The Tories must be pissing themselves laughing. And all because serkeir lacked the brass balls to boot the trots out of the party.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399

    Mr. Max, it always puzzles me when I see women-led or the like on business entries on Googlemaps.

    It's not a problem, but obviously a business has to be 'led' by men or women...

    On voting: EHV is the optimal system. Enormo-haddock voting eliminates human error by removing humans from the voting process. It's a sensible policy for a happier Britain.

    “Ankh-Morpork had dallied with many forms of government and had ended up with that form of democracy known as One Man, One Vote. The Patrician was the Man; he had the Vote.”

    ― Terry Pratchett, Mort
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    DavidL said:

    You're way too nice about them.
    Yebbut consumers.

    I use Amazon a lot. You don't, that's fine but people can and do vote with their feet.
  • DavidL said:

    You're way too nice about them.
    Yes but they're convenient.

    You can think of something you want, get your phone out of your pocket and it'll be at your house later that day or the next day. So ... 🤷‍♂️
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399

    Mr. Max, it always puzzles me when I see women-led or the like on business entries on Googlemaps.

    It's not a problem, but obviously a business has to be 'led' by men or women...

    On voting: EHV is the optimal system. Enormo-haddock voting eliminates human error by removing humans from the voting process. It's a sensible policy for a happier Britain.

    I suspect that's come over from America where being a minority owned company does wonders for your chances of winning Government projects (or at the very least guarantees you some work from said projects)
  • Scott_xP said:

    If you view it as a continuum, the election of BoZo on a mandate to "Get Brexit Done" has been a retrograde step.

    He is removing power from Parliament and consolidating it in his own hands.

    Absolutely ad I am pleased to say I have never supported him (nor May). But at least we will have the ability to get rid of him and move forward rather than continually and regressively placing power in the hands of a remote and overreaching European political system. I have a (vain) hope that when the Scots finally get independence they will see sense and not swap remote Westminster governance for even more remote Brussels governance.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556

    TBH I don't think its true that shoppers prefer more choice. They want choice, but not as much as they get offered. A huge fixture with 12 different kinds of lentils will not only sell very little volume in that space, the more different items you add in the less you sell.

    Aldi and Lidl sometimes push the proven less is more approach too far, but they have the right balance. Which is why they have had sustained strong growth and the big supermarkets haven't.
    As a big Aldi fan what is it that eg tescos don't do which inhibits them vs Aldi/Lidl?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470
    eek said:

    “Ankh-Morpork had dallied with many forms of government and had ended up with that form of democracy known as One Man, One Vote. The Patrician was the Man; he had the Vote.”

    ― Terry Pratchett, Mort
    I remember quoting that to my daughter, who was asking about why she couldn't make decisions at the age of 6, on everything.

    We were sitting on a Tube train. The Nigerian origined gentleman sitting opposite started laughing. A lot.... Apparently its a bit of a joke there, from what he said.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399

    So it looks like the Labour conference will be a series of running battles between Starmer and the Trot left. Starmer reintroducing the Bennite electoral college is being denounced as anti-democratic.

    The Tories must be pissing themselves laughing. And all because serkeir lacked the brass balls to boot the trots out of the party.

    For reasons I will never understand he seems to prefer having people who will never be happy inside the tent peeing towards him, rather than outside the tent complaining to no-one as no-one else would care.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818
    edited September 2021
    MrEd said:

    Yes, and also looks good with the The U.K. business environment pre-Brexit was incredibly generous to big business:

    1. Declining corporation tax rates reducing the amounts businesses paid;

    2. Tax credits available to all, including immigrants, which allowed low paying industries to get by on the minimum wage with workers able to top up with the help of the Government;

    3. Opening the doors to immigration.

    Ironically, we all heard from very many ardent Remainers pre-Brexit that the argument drove down wages was a Brexit fallacy and there was no evidence for it. Well, looks like we are getting the evidence now…
    Certainly. But points 1 and 2 were political choices which had bugger all to do with our membership or not of the EU.
  • slade said:

    On the subject of Emma and her Britishness we nearly had a similar case in the UCI World Championships. In the Women's Junior Time Trial this morning Zoe Backstedt won a silver medal. Her father was a Swedish pro cyclist and is a Eurosport commentator. She identifies as Welsh (after her mother) but competes for GB.

    I just thought of a Raduthetical while I was out walking the dog.

    What if.. she announced tomorrow that she was moving to NYC and was taking up an offer she'd be given for US citizenship because she's been advised that she'll make much more money, and pay less tax, that way. And she prefers NY to London.

    I think I'd still support her the same. Just so long as she didn't start speaking in an American accent!
  • Mr. Pioneers, I'd blame Blair for that. He was master of all he surveyed. Starmer, at least, inherits a far worse position.

    Mr. eek, aye. Unfortunately, American bullshit gets swallowed and regurgitated by the far left over here (ironically).
  • kle4 said:

    You have my vote, sir. Hopefully you will be a wise and just leader.
    Thank you. You've inspired me - I am now setting up the Wisdom and Justice Party. Who could not vote for that?
  • TOPPING said:

    Sounds interesting I'm always after some good coffee. Are they the Alcafe ones?

    Edit: found them.
    Yes. Alcafe Dolce Gusto compatible.

    I've not tried their other ones, but those are very good, I drink the red Americano ones and my wife has the brown Latte Macchiato ones.

    The Americano ones produce a really good crema.

    Even if I do my weekly shop at Tesco, I'll go out of my way to get those pods alone.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556

    Absolutely ad I am pleased to say I have never supported him (nor May). But at least we will have the ability to get rid of him and move forward rather than continually and regressively placing power in the hands of a remote and overreaching European political system. I have a (vain) hope that when the Scots finally get independence they will see sense and not swap remote Westminster governance for even more remote Brussels governance.
    Richard, we always had the power to remove the remote overreaching European political entity from our lives and, indeed, not so many years ago we did exactly that.

    Because democratically-elected governments chose not to do so for a few decades does not mean the concept was not a democratic one (membership of the EU).
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399
    TOPPING said:

    As a big Aldi fan what is it that eg tescos don't do which inhibits them vs Aldi/Lidl?
    I suspect their desire to take money for promotions alongside the need to support those promotions means they need to sell x package sizes and variations rather than a single version.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751
    TOPPING said:

    Yebbut consumers.

    I use Amazon a lot. You don't, that's fine but people can and do vote with their feet.
    I know, my family uses them a lot and my son has relied heavily on them for school materials etc. But they way they conduct their business is deeply immoral, their (ab)use of their market place is screaming out for regulation and separation from their trading arms, for me it is a last resort.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    eek said:

    I suspect their desire to take money for promotions alongside the need to support those promotions means they need to sell x package sizes and variations rather than a single version.
    Interesting, so the money they make from the promotions < profit from the promoted product.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,959
    edited September 2021
    slade said:

    On the subject of Emma and her Britishness we nearly had a similar case in the UCI World Championships. In the Women's Junior Time Trial this morning Zoe Backstedt won a silver medal. Her father was a Swedish pro cyclist and is a Eurosport commentator. She identifies as Welsh (after her mother) but competes for GB.

    Louis Lynagh just been selected by England rugby....born in Italy and son of legendary Aussie player Michael Lynagh.

    Gary Lineker and other virtue signaller tweets incoming.

    The thing is all the nonsense of Raducanu, it is actually fairly common across sports.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,956
    eek said:

    Yep - the UK version of SV without a second separate election could be summed up as

    Have your protest vote, then pick the least worst of the likely winners.

    Between that and a voting slip people couldn't understand it had no real value beyond an attempt to say we use a (completely useless, utterly insane) form of PR for elections.
    Yes, but that was what the Labour Party/Government came up with when they were forced (by the EU) to move over to a more proportional system. It was the least they could get away with.

    You can never trust the Labour Party to do what is right, if it conflicts with its own self-interest.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Re the header topic, poll out showing Trump continues to dominate the 2024 primary polling:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/573040-poll-trump-dominates-2024-republican-primary-field?rl=1

    I really don’t see how Pence has much chance in this environment. Even if Trump doesn’t stand, his chosen candidate will.

    PS if anyone wants to amuse themselves with anti-Trump book, read John Niven’s “The F*ck it list”
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    I just thought of a Raduthetical while I was out walking the dog.

    What if.. she announced tomorrow that she was moving to NYC and was taking up an offer she'd be given for US citizenship because she's been advised that she'll make much more money, and pay less tax, that way. And she prefers NY to London.

    I think I'd still support her the same. Just so long as she didn't start speaking in an American accent!
    Wasn’t that Anna Kournikova, who moved to the US from Russia on some sort of tennis scolarship as a young teenager?
  • Aslan said:

    I suspect there is a split between smaller stores who understand the new state of affairs means better pay and conditions for their low wage workers. The bigger, more British ones have relationships into government and reckon they can lobby the powers that be to bail them out and let in a whole bunch more Eastern Europeans.
    Ultimately, companies will have to pay more to lower paid workers. This will make them less competitive and some of them will go bust. Then unemployment will start to rise again and wages will drop until a new equilibrium is reached and the UK has become a bit poorer.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751
    eek said:

    “Ankh-Morpork had dallied with many forms of government and had ended up with that form of democracy known as One Man, One Vote. The Patrician was the Man; he had the Vote.”

    ― Terry Pratchett, Mort
    I wonder if Putin or Xi are fans? I fear not, neither have an adequately developed sense of the ridiculous.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    DavidL said:

    I know, my family uses them a lot and my son has relied heavily on them for school materials etc. But they way they conduct their business is deeply immoral, their (ab)use of their market place is screaming out for regulation and separation from their trading arms, for me it is a last resort.
    Interesting. The same has often been said about the big supermarkets vs the dairy/other farmers and providers. The same argument has also been used, tortuously, to justify lower wage bills in particular when immigrants are added to the jobs mix.

    The greater good is to deliver a greater part of society (ie non-dairy farmers, non-baristas, non-fruit pickers) economic benefit.
  • MaxPB said:

    Yup, the best ones are when Amazon and such do all of that rainbow shite. They get away with industrial scale tax avoidance, horrible working conditions and loss-leading with their storefront to hollow out local competitors and local high streets. But it's all good, they have rainbows on their website so who gives a fuck about all that.
    So I assume that, like me, you don't use Amazon? I care more about your first criticism than your second, so won't use them.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818
    Many congratulations to Canada for holding an election so dull it elicited very little comment even on here.
    Quite an achievement. Chapeau!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Ultimately, companies will have to pay more to lower paid workers. This will make them less competitive and some of them will go bust. Then unemployment will start to rise again and wages will drop until a new equilibrium is reached and the UK has become a bit poorer.
    If, as has been suggested, that a million or more have left the UK during the pandemic, then the per-capita GDP figure and productivity are going to be the ones to watch, rather than the raw GDP figure.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,959
    edited September 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Wasn’t that Anna Kournikova, who moved to the US from Russia on some sort of tennis scolarship as a young teenager?
    Loads of tennis players move to Florida at a young age, including Canadian finalest that Raducanu beat.

    However, nobody is moving to NYC to pay less tax, most of the sports stars who play for NY based teams somehow claim they don't even live there....because otherwise their tax bills would be enormous.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,737
    edited September 2021
    Sandpit said:

    £14/hr is not too bad for local deliveries, no? c.£30k salary on a full-time basis.
    Aldi don't do local deliveries on groceries. This is deliveries to stores.

    The chap is actually training to be an HGV driver himself !

    I'm quite interested to see what aspects we pick up from the Swiss economy.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470
    DavidL said:

    I wonder if Putin or Xi are fans? I fear not, neither have an adequately developed sense of the ridiculous.
    Kim Il Sung apparently rather liked Team America....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751
    MrEd said:

    Re the header topic, poll out showing Trump continues to dominate the 2024 primary polling:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/573040-poll-trump-dominates-2024-republican-primary-field?rl=1

    I really don’t see how Pence has much chance in this environment. Even if Trump doesn’t stand, his chosen candidate will.

    PS if anyone wants to amuse themselves with anti-Trump book, read John Niven’s “The F*ck it list”

    I agree, I don't see Pence as much of a runner. He betrayed the faith with the Trump loons but he hung in there far too long for the rationals to trust him. He may still have some evangelical base but nowhere near enough in my view.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,959
    edited September 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Yup, the best ones are when Amazon and such do all of that rainbow shite. They get away with industrial scale tax avoidance, horrible working conditions and loss-leading with their storefront to hollow out local competitors and local high streets. But it's all good, they have rainbows on their website so who gives a fuck about all that.
    You can tell the companies who really don't care and its all PR, when their US twitter / website will be full of this equity day or month, but their accounts for certain other markets never mention these issues, where the lack of equality is much greater.....and by that standard I think we know it is most of them that are juat virtue signalling.

    The NBA really take thr biscuit though. They went totally ott on racial equality stuff,.then one team official said Uighur Muslims.in China are getting a raw deal and he got sanctioned.and they sent out all the biggest stars to say China your awesome, we love you.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,737

    I remember quoting that to my daughter, who was asking about why she couldn't make decisions at the age of 6, on everything.

    We were sitting on a Tube train. The Nigerian origined gentleman sitting opposite started laughing. A lot.... Apparently its a bit of a joke there, from what he said.
    I put out a little twitter comment this morning suggesting that Labour MPs should have more influence than a normal party member in leader selection as they have to work with the &^^%$ leader.

    I can confirm that a lot of 'members' on twitter seem not to like it :smile:
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,322
    eek said:

    “Ankh-Morpork had dallied with many forms of government and had ended up with that form of democracy known as One Man, One Vote. The Patrician was the Man; he had the Vote.”

    ― Terry Pratchett, Mort
    Its a great system in Ankh-Morpork - a mostly benevolent, enlightened tyrant whose only vice is a hatred of mime artists. I suspect a fair few folk who flirt with totalitarianism yearn for such a ruler in the real world.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004
    edited September 2021
    DavidL said:

    I find it genuinely astonishing that our political class could ever be short of wind but that appears to be the case.
    Which committee said we shouldn't build the tidal lagoon ?

    If the basis was that it's not competitive next to gas. Well...
  • glwglw Posts: 10,254
    MaxPB said:

    Yup, the best ones are when Amazon and such do all of that rainbow shite. They get away with industrial scale tax avoidance, horrible working conditions and loss-leading with their storefront to hollow out local competitors and local high streets. But it's all good, they have rainbows on their website so who gives a fuck about all that.

    The rainbows don't appear on the websites or social media accounts of their Saudi Arabian offices, a regime that they happily do business with.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470
    DavidL said:

    I agree, I don't see Pence as much of a runner. He betrayed the faith with the Trump loons but he hung in there far too long for the rationals to trust him. He may still have some evangelical base but nowhere near enough in my view.
    He is steeped in the fundy evangelical thing. No way the non-fundies would even look at him. And the intersections between the sets of the fundies and the Trumpets means he is stuffed there as well.
  • Sandpit said:

    If, as has been suggested, that a million or more have left the UK during the pandemic, then the per-capita GDP figure and productivity are going to be the ones to watch, rather than the raw GDP figure.
    This has always been the con perpetrated by Government. They tell everyone to concentrate on the GDP figures when what actually matters is GDP per capita.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004
    Pulpstar said:

    Which committee said we shouldn't build the tidal lagoon ?

    If the basis was that it's not competitive next to gas. Well...
    Greg Clark, the UK’s Secretary for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (a relatively new section of government which is, in effect, the ruling body for matters of energy and energy efficiency) has deemed the project to be unjustifiably expensive. In his own words, Clark claims that “The inescapable conclusion of an extensive analysis is that however novel and appealing the proposal that has been made is…the costs that would be incurred by consumers and taxpayers would be so much higher than alternative sources of low carbon power, that it would be irresponsible to enter into a contract with the provider.”
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818

    He is steeped in the fundy evangelical thing. No way the non-fundies would even look at him. And the intersections between the sets of the fundies and the Trumpets means he is stuffed there as well.
    Which, in itself, is strange. As the Evangelical movement began as a reaction against Fundamentalism.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    If Labour's PR department has any sense (?) they will keep their messaging clear and simple:

    The Tories' Triple Whammy:

    • More taxes

    • Bigger bills

    • Higher prices
  • Mr. Tyndall, lies, damned lies, and statistics.

    Like if you focus on CO2 emissions from one medium-sized country to the extent you don't notice electricity supply is at risk...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,959
    edited September 2021

    If Labour's PR department has any sense (?) they will keep their messaging clear and simple:

    The Tories' Triple Whammy:

    • More taxes

    • Bigger bills

    • Higher prices

    And Labour are going to cut green levies, taxes and public spending? Our will they be proposing a Green New Deal which means even higher levies, higher taxes and higher spending?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Ultimately, companies will have to pay more to lower paid workers. This will make them less competitive and some of them will go bust. Then unemployment will start to rise again and wages will drop until a new equilibrium is reached and the UK has become a bit poorer.
    If the constraint is lack of low skill workers, then any new equilibrium is inevitably at a higher wage level than the previous one. This is basic economics. But I do find it funny when supposed lefties start arguing against higher wages for workers because it will make the more exploitative employers go bust.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    You can tell the companies who really don't care and its all PR, when their US twitter / website will be full of this equity day or month, but their accounts for certain other markets never mention these issues, where the lack of equality is much greater.....and by that standard I think we know it is most of them that are juat virtue signalling.

    The NBA really take thr biscuit though. They went totally ott on racial equality stuff,.then one team official said Uighur Muslims.in China are getting a raw deal and he got sanctioned.and they sent out all the biggest stars to say China your awesome, we love you.
    Watching US sports and movies pander to China has been something of a regular occurance of the past few years. John Oliver has done some good pieces on it. One rule for criticising the US government, a very different rule for criticising certain foreign governments.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470
    dixiedean said:

    Which, in itself, is strange. As the Evangelical movement began as a reaction against Fundamentalism.
    Every system of thought can go fundamentalist. And be used as the basis of a vile despotism.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,737
    dixiedean said:

    Which, in itself, is strange. As the Evangelical movement began as a reaction against Fundamentalism.
    Fundamentalist-Evangelical compare/contrast is interesting.

    Have you encountered the Evangelical Quakers of North America?

    (It was roughly the British Quakers who changed.)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818

    If Labour's PR department has any sense (?) they will keep their messaging clear and simple:

    The Tories' Triple Whammy:

    • More taxes

    • Bigger bills

    • Higher prices

    But they don't. So I'm not holding my breath.
    Two things will dominate. The trans issue, which is not of Starmer's making.
    And the Electoral College. Which is. Own goal yet again.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399
    edited September 2021

    Its a great system in Ankh-Morpork - a mostly benevolent, enlightened tyrant whose only vice is a hatred of mime artists. I suspect a fair few folk who flirt with totalitarianism yearn for such a ruler in the real world.
    Personally the Patrician didn't go far enough.

    He should have been tough on Mime (artists) and tough on the causes of Mime.

    Mime ranks alongside interpretative dance as things which should be imagined and never encountered. I'm sure I've posted my story about the Museum of Liverpool emptying out as the interpretative dance tour was announced. I suspect it worked better than any fire alarm...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    If Labour's PR department has any sense (?) they will keep their messaging clear and simple:

    The Tories' Triple Whammy:

    • More taxes

    • Bigger bills

    • Higher prices

    But all their conference delegates want to talk about is:

    • Palestine

    • Trans Rights v Women’s Rights

    • Internal organisational matters
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    And Labour are going to cut green levies, taxes and public spending? Our will they be proposing a Green New Deal which means even higher levies, higher taxes and higher spending?
    Doesn't really matter at this stage, Labour don't need to have policies this far from an election. Just keep hammering home the cost of living message and keep the pressure firmly on the government.
  • Mr. Sandpit, aye. Boyega's character in Star Wars became a joke, and John Cena kowtowing was not a great look.

    Fin (Finn?) could've had a great character arc with Phasma, instead he became light relief.

    Although, that was very much not the worst part of the sequels.
  • If I had the time (and cared enough) I could go round and photograph the shelves in Lidl, Iceland, M&S, Waitrose, Sainsbury's and Co-Op (all local stores here) at 4pm but I don't and I can't.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399
    Sandpit said:

    But all their conference delegates want to talk about is:

    • Palestine

    • Trans Rights v Women’s Rights

    • Internal organisational matters
    don't you mean

    Trans rights

    Labour isn't going to let the views of wimen get in the way of lefty woke point scoring
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004

    Turns out that the one-shot J&J vaccine works much better with, err, two shots:

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/573132-johnson-johnson-says-its-booster-provides-94-percent-covid-19-protection

    (as many of us suspected all along).

    & all the two shot vaccines will work (But with slightly reduced efficacy) as a single shot.
  • Narendra Modi writes…

    Spoke with my friend President @EmmanuelMacron on the situation in Afghanistan. We also discussed closer collaboration between India and France in the Indo-Pacific. We place great value on our Strategic Partnership with France, including in the UNSC.

    https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status/1440293420212260877?s=21
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,999
    Pulpstar said:

    Greg Clark, the UK’s Secretary for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (a relatively new section of government which is, in effect, the ruling body for matters of energy and energy efficiency) has deemed the project to be unjustifiably expensive. In his own words, Clark claims that “The inescapable conclusion of an extensive analysis is that however novel and appealing the proposal that has been made is…the costs that would be incurred by consumers and taxpayers would be so much higher than alternative sources of low carbon power, that it would be irresponsible to enter into a contract with the provider.”
    Based on a report prepared by BEIS, one number in which was £30 billion wrong - in favour nuclear, another £60 billion wrong, in favour of nuclear.

    BEIS made up their own basis of assessment, despite having objective measures they were supposed to use. Further, they haven't taken a meeting since early 2017. They have no idea what the current economic parameters are.

    Oh, and the Secretary of State had to respond to the abandonment provisions provided by the company (for an abondonment happening 120 years hence). BEIS provided their response at 5.01pm on the day they believed the Development Consent Order expired. Oh, and only DCO's were excluded from the Covid extensions to planning permission deadlines.

    Tidal lagoon electricity generation is competitive against other renewables (offshore wind and solar) - even more so when comparing an asset that lasts 120+++years versus those which need to be replaced from the ground up every 25-35 years. Tidal lagoons are massively competitive when objectively measured against nuclear. Which was its crime and why such efforts were taken to stop it happening.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    dixiedean said:

    But they don't. So I'm not holding my breath.
    Two things will dominate. The trans issue, which is not of Starmer's making.
    And the Electoral College. Which is. Own goal yet again.

    Agreed. Navel gazing over the Electoral College and obsessing over trans stuff when there is sod all resolution would be a big mistake. And for that reason, that is probably exactly what they will do.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786
    edited September 2021
    Breaking

    Kwarteng has agreed with CF industries to restart production of CO2
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited September 2021
    Sandpit said:

    But all their conference delegates want to talk about is:

    • Palestine

    • Trans Rights v Women’s Rights

    • Internal organisational matters
    Although to be fair the internal organisational matter is potentially very important: the changes Starmer is seeking would make it less likely that the party will once again lurch into Corbyn-style madness. That's important for the question of whether it's safe to vote Labour.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,470
    Aslan said:

    If the constraint is lack of low skill workers, then any new equilibrium is inevitably at a higher wage level than the previous one. This is basic economics. But I do find it funny when supposed lefties start arguing against higher wages for workers because it will make the more exploitative employers go bust.
    The thing I find strange is the abandonment of the *provable position* that social services and the other accoutrements of the moderns social democratic state actually increase productivity.

    To the point where higher wages than those in developing countries are logically and can be afforded.

    While there limits to this, it means that we don't all have to work as if we are at Foxconn, to compete.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Sandpit said:

    But all their conference delegates want to talk about is:

    • Palestine

    • Trans Rights v Women’s Rights

    • Internal organisational matters
    Quite probably so. I'm simply saying what they should do, not predicting what they will do.
  • Pulpstar said:

    & all the two shot vaccines will work (But with slightly reduced efficacy) as a single shot.
    Yep.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,910
    Good afternoon. Just woken up after staying up for the Canadian election.
  • Aslan said:

    If the constraint is lack of low skill workers, then any new equilibrium is inevitably at a higher wage level than the previous one. This is basic economics. But I do find it funny when supposed lefties start arguing against higher wages for workers because it will make the more exploitative employers go bust.
    Other things being equal. But leaving the EU (and especially the SM/CU) has also increased barriers to trade, increased costs for business, reduced demand in the economy and weakened the exchange rate. It's possible that the end result is higher wages at the bottom of the income distribution (in which case, good), but equally possible that wages go down in real terms, accompanied by a burst of inflation.
    It's odd that the Blair government is so often blamed on here for everything (especially immigration, supposedly terrible for wages) when in fact it presided over a period of strong wage growth, an increased labour share of income and reduced income inequality. If those trends re-emerge after going backwards under the Tories then great. But I'm not holding my breath.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399

    Breaking

    Kwarteng has agreed with CF industries to restart production of CO2

    Will the size of the large cheque required be revealed or will Kwarteng claim it's commercially confidential even though it's a direct subsidy to due to lack of other options.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,524
    edited September 2021
    TOPPING said:

    As a big Aldi fan what is it that eg tescos don't do which inhibits them vs Aldi/Lidl?
    Cost, space, choice. Stores which are too big, with too many products, which cost too much to run.
  • eek said:

    Will the size of the large cheque required be revealed or will Kwarteng claim it's commercially confidential even though it's a direct subsidy to due to lack of other options.
    I expect most people will be relieved that the matter has been addressed
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818
    MattW said:

    Fundamentalist-Evangelical compare/contrast is interesting.

    Have you encountered the Evangelical Quakers of North America?

    (It was roughly the British Quakers who changed.)
    Well indeed. Although what you call yourself is often not a good guide. I was thinking more of the revival of a more personal, welcoming relationship with Faith spearheaded by Billy Graham as its figurehead, away from doctrinaire rule bound Christianity.
    Which played a huge part in re-energising the movement across the USA post-War.
    Which has now gone full circle to become riddled with new Articles of Faith.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Although to be fair the internal organisational matter is potentially very important: the changes Starmer is seeking would make it less likely that the party will once lurch into Corbyn-style madness. That's important for the question of whether it's safe to vote Labour.
    That is true, but making a big deal of it to the public (who don't understand it anyway) would be a PR mistake. It does need sorting, for exactly the reasons you say, but let it be done away from the main stage.

    The entire PR message should be hammering the high-tax Tories for their cost of living Triple Whammy.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,322
    eek said:

    Will the size of the large cheque required be revealed or will Kwarteng claim it's commercially confidential even though it's a direct subsidy to due to lack of other options.
    So I'm not the brightest, but if its costing more to produce the CO2 due to gas prices, you put the price of the CO2 up, the food industry needs it and has to pay, and then puts its prices up. Problem solved via economics. At the end the consumer pays. Why hasn't that worked here?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,999

    If Labour's PR department has any sense (?) they will keep their messaging clear and simple:

    The Tories' Triple Whammy:

    • More taxes

    • Bigger bills

    • Higher prices

    Their problem is their track record. That is exactly what they delivered when in power previously.....
  • 🇬🇧🇦🇺 The UK and Australia are close friends with a shared belief in democracy and freedom.

    Great meeting with @MarisePayne discussing:

    🛡️ The AUKUS security & defence partnership

    📈 Our fantastic 🇬🇧🇦🇺 trade deal

    🌏 Working more closely together in the Indo-Pacific

    image

    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1440294387699699713
  • Boris to Rigby

    You are entitled to your gloom but you are wrong !!!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,818
    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon. Just woken up after staying up for the Canadian election.

    Surprised you woke up at all. Has to be the dullest election since ours in 2001.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,297
    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon. Just woken up after staying up for the Canadian election.

    Respect. There are people into politics and then there are people into politics. And, oh dear, it's as we were, I gather.
  • So I'm not the brightest, but if its costing more to produce the CO2 due to gas prices, you put the price of the CO2 up, the food industry needs it and has to pay, and then puts its prices up. Problem solved via economics. At the end the consumer pays. Why hasn't that worked here?
    I believe it is because the CO2 is a by-product of fertiliser production which is what uses the gas. And due to the increase in gas prices the fertiliser factory has stopped operating for now - a commercial decision - which means no CO2 is being produced. So economics doesn't solve this one directly as the fertiliser company has no wish to produce the stuff at the current costs.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,297

    Although to be fair the internal organisational matter is potentially very important: the changes Starmer is seeking would make it less likely that the party will once again lurch into Corbyn-style madness. That's important for the question of whether it's safe to vote Labour.
    Don't think it will feature in many people's GE decision.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    edited September 2021

    Cost, space, choice. Stores which are too big, with too many products, which cost too much to run.
    tyvm
  • Ultimately, companies will have to pay more to lower paid workers. This will make them less competitive and some of them will go bust. Then unemployment will start to rise again and wages will drop until a new equilibrium is reached and the UK has become a bit poorer.
    Why would we be poorer? If a new equilibrium is reached with higher wages then we will be richer not poorer. The least productive businesses are the ones that die, and they were deflating our wealth per capita not increasing it.

    Increasing numbers of people on minimum wage, subsidised by taxes of those not on minimum wage, deflates our economy it doesn't improve it per capita.
This discussion has been closed.