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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The IndyRef YES price touches rock bottom as punters give t

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited August 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The IndyRef YES price touches rock bottom as punters give their verdict on Salmond’s failure to win Tuesday’s debate

The betting on the Scottish IndyRef has moved further to NO during the day even though, as yet, we have yet to see the first full post debate referendum poll.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    First!
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    How's this for scaremongering?

    If Scotland votes No, the Tories would be unlikely to win a majority at Westminster for the foreseeable future.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    FPT- SeanT

    Have you seen this youtube clip sean of a Iraqi women MP on about the slaughter

    Brought a tear to my eye.

    http://www.archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/we-are-being-butchered-under-banner-of.html
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    compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    I see the FOB's have some very vocal anti-Cameroons in their midst. Mad Nad, Goldsmith....wonder if Warsi will declare she is a FOB?
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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Off topic-

    What is this Feminist bullshit-

    Caitlin Moran ‏@caitlinmoran · 1h
    NINE MILLION ROFL - all the "straight white male author" jokes in one place [edited]

    Well - I have my Casio.

    I work that out at an 80% increase.

    Stupid inflation is always 110, 115 or 120

    Stick to knitting.

    PS - Hannah Betts yesterday was Spot On





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    PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,274
    The true scale of Salmond's failure to think through the currency issue is laid bare. He needs to lance the boil immediately or he will sail on to total shipwreck.

    An independent Scotland must have its own currency with a 1:1 peg to sterling. There is a respectable precedent in the form of the Irish Free State and the punt, where sterling parity was maintained for many years. The peg may not be that durable in Scotland's case and a free float may become necessary in due course. This is a secondary matter and is far less daunting than the nonsense of currency union or sterlingisation.

    And then there is the small matter of the mechanics of bank account conversion and the prevention of capital flight.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    FPT

    @NickPalmer

    "Well, that's you un-invited :-). Just had a fish dinner in a pleasant restuarant for £2 (OK, it's Beijing). Can't remember the last time I spent £20 on a meal. A video game, certainly. Books, maybe. But for food that you eat in 10 minutes? Pshaw."

    Life must be a damn sight cheaper in Nottinghamshire and Central London then, Nick. Went out with herself to meet friends for a pub lunch yesterday. Nothing fancy, two courses with a very modest amount of drink and it topped twenty quid a head. In the Crawley curry-house where we once had a PB meet one can now expect to pay a minimum of £40 per person. Even in my local and favourite Indian (flock wall paper and it hasn't changed in forty years) I budget for £30 each.

    £20 for drinks and nibbles in the Palace of Westminster sound like a good deal to me.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited August 2014
    On reflection we need more Survation polls showing unlikely outcomes, it will, just make it easier to separate the men from the boys so to speak at GE time when everyone will be polling madly.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    PeterC said:

    The true scale of Salmond's failure to think through the currency issue is laid bare. He needs to lance the boil immediately or he will sail on to total shipwreck.

    An independent Scotland must have its own currency with a 1:1 peg to sterling. There is a respectable precedent in the form of the Irish Free State and the punt, where sterling parity was maintained for many years. The peg may not be that durable in Scotland's case and a free float may become necessary in due course. This is a secondary matter and is far less daunting than the nonsense of currency union or sterlingisation.

    And then there is the small matter of the mechanics of bank account conversion and the prevention of capital flight.

    I have never understood, and nor has anyone been able to explain to me, why Scotland has not been looking for a separate currency all along. The only answer I have been able to come up with is that the leaders of the independence movement have been trying, in the face of all rational argument, to pretend that independence would not be too scary.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited August 2014
    SeanT said:

    fpt

    Tykejohnno

    "Have you seen this youtube clip sean of a Iraqi women MP on about the slaughter

    Brought a tear to my eye.

    http://www.archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/we-are-being-butchered-under-banner-of.html"

    Yes, I saw that, and yes, it made me tear up, as well. The horror is unspeakable. What can we do about ISIS? Why aren't we arming the Kurds with everything they need? They seem to be the only remotely sane, coherent and stable force in the region. America has all the materiel it needs in the area.

    Give the Kurds the tools to tackle ISIS.

    And the MSM are totally shtum on ISIS and the massacre of Christians preferring to concentrate on the wicked jews in Gaza where the journo's know that they won't (literally) lose their heads. I have yet to see one western journalist reporting to a TV network from Northern Iraq; and if they did so they would be embedded with ISIS, so as to save their own necks. Pretty pathetic all round for those upholding "freedom of the press".
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    The ICM poll quoted in this Times article seems more nuanced, with undecideds giving the debate to Salmond and the Yes vote up after the debate, albeit slightly. Still 42% Yes to 46% No isn't bad.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Are journalists frightened of reporting true facts in Gaza? You bet they are:

    Indian reporter posts backstory to viral rocket video
    NDTV reporter Sreenivasan Jain, whose video of Hamas operatives assembling and firing rockets from a civilian area went viral, writes an article with more information on the incident:

    “We had all of it on tape, but wrestled with the dilemma of what to do with it. Two considerations weighed on our mind. One, the fear which hobbles the reporting such material: fear of reprisals from Hamas against us and those who worked with us, fear of inviting an Israeli response on the spot (these have been known to miss). Two, we needed to be 100 % sure that this was a rocket launch site. So we did nothing, setting off on our assignment for the day, mulling over the material in our possession.

    “The next morning was meant to be our last in Gaza, and the day when a 72-hour ceasefire was meant to bring some relief to the area. As we woke early to pack – stealing tense glances at the ‘rocket’ patch – the final step was enacted. With minutes left for the ceasefire to kick in, flurries of Hamas rockets were fired. At about 7:52 am, this patch of earth was activated; the rockets took off with a bang and a plume of smoke. We managed to catch it on video just seconds after. By then the men who assembled it had long gone.

    “We knew then we had to air the story. For us to have filmed how a rocket was assembled next to us, on a site used twice to launch a rocket, endangering the lives of all those around us on two occasions -to not have reported it would have been simply wrong. But we did take precautions – we aired the report a good five hours after the rocket was launched, well into the ceasefire. By then it was clear that Israel was not responding, at least for the period of the ceasefire. (Incidentally, given Israel’s extensive surveillance of rockets launched from the Gaza Strip it hardly seems they would need the media to point out to them where rockets are fired from.)

    “There was the question of possible reprisal by Hamas; to this one, there are no easy answers other than to ask: how long do we self-censor because of the fear of personal safety in return for not telling a story that exposes how those launching rockets are putting so many more lives at risk, while the rocket-makers themselves are at a safe distance? More so when we have rare, first hand proof of how it works?”


    Read more: Thousands demonstrate in Gaza, demand attacks on Israel | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/day-31-israel-okays-ceasefire-extension-hamas-does-not/#ixzz39iTMon6K
    Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook
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    FPT

    @NickPalmer

    "Well, that's you un-invited :-). Just had a fish dinner in a pleasant restuarant for £2 (OK, it's Beijing). Can't remember the last time I spent £20 on a meal. A video game, certainly. Books, maybe. But for food that you eat in 10 minutes? Pshaw."

    Life must be a damn sight cheaper in Nottinghamshire and Central London then, Nick. Went out with herself to meet friends for a pub lunch yesterday. Nothing fancy, two courses with a very modest amount of drink and it topped twenty quid a head. In the Crawley curry-house where we once had a PB meet one can now expect to pay a minimum of £40 per person. Even in my local and favourite Indian (flock wall paper and it hasn't changed in forty years) I budget for £30 each.

    £20 for drinks and nibbles in the Palace of Westminster sound like a good deal to me.

    Last night our lab group went for dinner at a mill-converted-to-a-pub just outside Warwick and it worked out under £20 per head.
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    FPT

    @NickPalmer

    "Well, that's you un-invited :-). Just had a fish dinner in a pleasant restuarant for £2 (OK, it's Beijing). Can't remember the last time I spent £20 on a meal. A video game, certainly. Books, maybe. But for food that you eat in 10 minutes? Pshaw."

    Life must be a damn sight cheaper in Nottinghamshire and Central London then, Nick. Went out with herself to meet friends for a pub lunch yesterday. Nothing fancy, two courses with a very modest amount of drink and it topped twenty quid a head. In the Crawley curry-house where we once had a PB meet one can now expect to pay a minimum of £40 per person. Even in my local and favourite Indian (flock wall paper and it hasn't changed in forty years) I budget for £30 each.

    £20 for drinks and nibbles in the Palace of Westminster sound like a good deal to me.

    Last night our lab group went for dinner at a mill-converted-to-a-pub just outside Warwick and it worked out under £20 per head.

    The Saxon Mill, by any chance?

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    FPT

    @NickPalmer

    "Well, that's you un-invited :-). Just had a fish dinner in a pleasant restuarant for £2 (OK, it's Beijing). Can't remember the last time I spent £20 on a meal. A video game, certainly. Books, maybe. But for food that you eat in 10 minutes? Pshaw."

    Life must be a damn sight cheaper in Nottinghamshire and Central London then, Nick. Went out with herself to meet friends for a pub lunch yesterday. Nothing fancy, two courses with a very modest amount of drink and it topped twenty quid a head. In the Crawley curry-house where we once had a PB meet one can now expect to pay a minimum of £40 per person. Even in my local and favourite Indian (flock wall paper and it hasn't changed in forty years) I budget for £30 each.

    £20 for drinks and nibbles in the Palace of Westminster sound like a good deal to me.

    Last night our lab group went for dinner at a mill-converted-to-a-pub just outside Warwick and it worked out under £20 per head.

    The Saxon Mill, by any chance?

    Yes :)
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Terrible to read of the attempt to wipe out the Yazidis. When I watched the news whilst eating lunch, though, both rolling channels had blanket coverage of the Pistorius trial. Is it more important than genocide?

    I don't think so. And. compared to the Gaza situation (which does deserve a lot of coverage), ISIS is getting very little.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    FPT

    @NickPalmer

    "Well, that's you un-invited :-). Just had a fish dinner in a pleasant restuarant for £2 (OK, it's Beijing). Can't remember the last time I spent £20 on a meal. A video game, certainly. Books, maybe. But for food that you eat in 10 minutes? Pshaw."

    Life must be a damn sight cheaper in Nottinghamshire and Central London then, Nick. Went out with herself to meet friends for a pub lunch yesterday. Nothing fancy, two courses with a very modest amount of drink and it topped twenty quid a head. In the Crawley curry-house where we once had a PB meet one can now expect to pay a minimum of £40 per person. Even in my local and favourite Indian (flock wall paper and it hasn't changed in forty years) I budget for £30 each.

    £20 for drinks and nibbles in the Palace of Westminster sound like a good deal to me.

    Last night our lab group went for dinner at a mill-converted-to-a-pub just outside Warwick and it worked out under £20 per head.
    I this the time to raise the question of national salary scales in the public sector?
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    FPT

    @NickPalmer

    "Well, that's you un-invited :-). Just had a fish dinner in a pleasant restuarant for £2 (OK, it's Beijing). Can't remember the last time I spent £20 on a meal. A video game, certainly. Books, maybe. But for food that you eat in 10 minutes? Pshaw."

    Life must be a damn sight cheaper in Nottinghamshire and Central London then, Nick. Went out with herself to meet friends for a pub lunch yesterday. Nothing fancy, two courses with a very modest amount of drink and it topped twenty quid a head. In the Crawley curry-house where we once had a PB meet one can now expect to pay a minimum of £40 per person. Even in my local and favourite Indian (flock wall paper and it hasn't changed in forty years) I budget for £30 each.

    £20 for drinks and nibbles in the Palace of Westminster sound like a good deal to me.

    Last night our lab group went for dinner at a mill-converted-to-a-pub just outside Warwick and it worked out under £20 per head.
    Actually, stand down on my last. Now you have conformed the location and I have looked at the menu I have a different question. How? How did you manage to eat dinner at that place for less then £20 a head? The average price for a main course seems to be about £13 and a sweet or starter about £6. Throw in a drinkie and I don't see how you get to less than £20.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,288
    edited August 2014
    137-8!

    Come on Indi...

    [taps head to re-boot Tebbit Chip]

    ...I meant to say give the Caste-botherers hell!
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    FPT

    @NickPalmer

    "Well, that's you un-invited :-). Just had a fish dinner in a pleasant restuarant for £2 (OK, it's Beijing). Can't remember the last time I spent £20 on a meal. A video game, certainly. Books, maybe. But for food that you eat in 10 minutes? Pshaw."

    Life must be a damn sight cheaper in Nottinghamshire and Central London then, Nick. Went out with herself to meet friends for a pub lunch yesterday. Nothing fancy, two courses with a very modest amount of drink and it topped twenty quid a head. In the Crawley curry-house where we once had a PB meet one can now expect to pay a minimum of £40 per person. Even in my local and favourite Indian (flock wall paper and it hasn't changed in forty years) I budget for £30 each.

    £20 for drinks and nibbles in the Palace of Westminster sound like a good deal to me.

    Last night our lab group went for dinner at a mill-converted-to-a-pub just outside Warwick and it worked out under £20 per head.
    Actually, stand down on my last. Now you have conformed the location and I have looked at the menu I have a different question. How? How did you manage to eat dinner at that place for less then £20 a head? The average price for a main course seems to be about £13 and a sweet or starter about £6. Throw in a drinkie and I don't see how you get to less than £20.
    As we were all either veggie-saurs, or veggie-saurs for the day, it did work out cheaper. I had the Vegetable Gnocchi for example. It was a pretty hefty plateful, so no room for a sweet. And we shared a couple of starters.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Terrible to read of the attempt to wipe out the Yazidis. When I watched the news whilst eating lunch, though, both rolling channels had blanket coverage of the Pistorius trial. Is it more important than genocide?

    I don't think so. And. compared to the Gaza situation (which does deserve a lot of coverage), ISIS is getting very little.

    The Yaidis probably don't have access to smart phones to broadcast their plight and no western journalist is going to go within miles of that sort of slaughter. The Yazidis also don't have PR people with access to social media, or even UK TV stations, to put out propaganda on their behalf.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,288
    edited August 2014
    SeanT said:


    It's just unspeakable. And yet the US and UK apparently do nothing about ISIS? And we are halfway responsible for their rise to Satanic power, with our idiotic Iraqi intervention, which f*cked up everything.

    Jeez.

    ISIS and Israel both have a shared strategic goal - containing Iran.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    FPT

    @NickPalmer

    "Well, that's you un-invited :-). Just had a fish dinner in a pleasant restuarant for £2 (OK, it's Beijing). Can't remember the last time I spent £20 on a meal. A video game, certainly. Books, maybe. But for food that you eat in 10 minutes? Pshaw."

    Life must be a damn sight cheaper in Nottinghamshire and Central London then, Nick. Went out with herself to meet friends for a pub lunch yesterday. Nothing fancy, two courses with a very modest amount of drink and it topped twenty quid a head. In the Crawley curry-house where we once had a PB meet one can now expect to pay a minimum of £40 per person. Even in my local and favourite Indian (flock wall paper and it hasn't changed in forty years) I budget for £30 each.

    £20 for drinks and nibbles in the Palace of Westminster sound like a good deal to me.

    Last night our lab group went for dinner at a mill-converted-to-a-pub just outside Warwick and it worked out under £20 per head.
    Actually, stand down on my last. Now you have conformed the location and I have looked at the menu I have a different question. How? How did you manage to eat dinner at that place for less then £20 a head? The average price for a main course seems to be about £13 and a sweet or starter about £6. Throw in a drinkie and I don't see how you get to less than £20.
    As we were all either veggie-saurs, or veggie-saurs for the day, it did work out cheaper. I had the Vegetable Gnocchi for example. It was a pretty hefty plateful, so no room for a sweet. And we shared a couple of starters.
    Fair go, a tee-total vegetarian is always going to eat cheaper. However, it was very naughty of you to imply that the cost of living, at least in terms of gasto-pub meals, is cheaper in Warwickshire than down south. Consider, yourself admonished.

    Avast, belike, shiver-my-timbers, else.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Llama, you're right. And yet, if our journalists did their jobs properly they wouldn't need to be spoon-fed stories.

    Dr. Prasannan, is that right? I thought ISIS laid claim to the territory of Iran and ultimately desires to destroy the Iranian state and incorporate its territory into the Caliphate.

    Mr. T, I thought Zoroastrianism was older? Pedantic quibble aside, 'tis a good thing to try and raise awareness. Let's hope the Kurds can kill a lot of the ISIS zealots.
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    Incidentally, the record for the most ducks in an innings is six (on three separate occasions). India currently have five.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/28589543
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited August 2014
    If only Salmond had been more honest from the outset and said:

    'An independent Scotland would aim to have a formal currency union with the UK. In the event of that not happening there would be an informal shadowing of the £ for a period until the Euro was adopted.'

    Too late now I guess.

    [Edit - oops, apols for being on topic]
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,334

    FPT

    @NickPalmer

    "Well, that's you un-invited :-). Just had a fish dinner in a pleasant restuarant for £2 (OK, it's Beijing). Can't remember the last time I spent £20 on a meal. A video game, certainly. Books, maybe. But for food that you eat in 10 minutes? Pshaw."

    Life must be a damn sight cheaper in Nottinghamshire and Central London then, Nick. Went out with herself to meet friends for a pub lunch yesterday. Nothing fancy, two courses with a very modest amount of drink and it topped twenty quid a head. In the Crawley curry-house where we once had a PB meet one can now expect to pay a minimum of £40 per person. Even in my local and favourite Indian (flock wall paper and it hasn't changed in forty years) I budget for £30 each.

    £20 for drinks and nibbles in the Palace of Westminster sound like a good deal to me.

    Ah, you opulent Southerners! Pretty standard Beeston lunch in numerous restaurants is £10 for two courses, add a Coke and a tip and that's £13. More like £16 in the evening. In London I tend to live off Tesco ready meals @£3, time and other considerations combine to keep me out of the bright lights.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. T, indeed, though its worth pointing out ISIS was born, or at least had its infancy, in Syria, rather than Iraq.

    The players we could support seem to be:
    the Free Syrian Army (although last I heard they were being driven back by Assad)
    the Iraqi Government (although the US poured tens of billions in the army and their first response appears to be to abandon equipment and run away)
    the Kurds (who seem to actually know what the hell they're doing, have a strong sense of identity and are willing and able to fight)
    the Turks

    Problem is Kurdistan extends into Turkey so giving arms to the Kurds could see them later be used against the Turks.

    Anyway, medical, logistical and perhaps other forms of support should be offered to the Kurds. We should also try and encourage the Turks to perform airstrikes against ISIS whenever possible. I can't imagine Turkey would be pleased to have such lunatics all along their southern border.

    The tragedy of Iraq was not merely it being wholly unnecessarily and fantastically poorly planned, but the lies told to get us into it. Now we have an electorate willing to believe politicians would lie about matters of war and peace, because a Prime Minister did just that.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "And yet, if our journalists did their jobs properly they wouldn't need to be spoon-fed stories."

    You mean newspapers having foreign correspondents embedded in the country? Maybe the BBC, who are probably the best in the business when it comes to foreign correspondents, actually having editors who are capable of sorting the propaganda from the news. Deary, me, Mr. Dancer, that all costs money.

    The Daily Telegraph can't even afford sub-editors capable of writing a headline that reflects what is in the story below it. They had a journalist who had been kicking around the Westminster scene for a long time and as a result was jolly well connected. They sacked him and replaced him with some fellow who, eventually, repeats whatever he has read in the early editions elsewhere. The other papers are no better and most are worse.

    No, much cheaper to regurgitate press releases. Doesn't need any decent journalists, who always are terribly expensive, and it fills the page. Furthermore, if all one is doing is rewording press releases there is very little chance of falling foul of official interests. Reporting facts is a very old-fashioned concept, very expensive, and really not to the interest of anyone.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Llama, I collected the old Daily Mails (my parents read it) they included for a week to commemorate the start of the Great War. As well as finding the adverts quite hilarious, the paper was really rather good to read.

    Much better than today's, it must be said.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "The tragedy of Iraq was not merely it being wholly unnecessarily and fantastically poorly planned, but the lies told to get us into it. Now we have an electorate willing to believe politicians would lie about matters of war and peace, because a Prime Minister did just that."

    Best comment of the morning, probably the day and, when it comes to foreign affairs, probably the year. Well said, Mr. Dancer.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    New Daily Patriot ‏@newdailypatriot 51m
    BREAKING NEWS FROM THE IMMIGRANT HELLHOLE OF NEWHAM,EAST LONDON.

    EXCLUSIVE: Twenty pupils have tested positive... http://fb.me/3QbxZGL3M

    TB is making a big comeback in the UK, after it was all but eradicated 40 years ago.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,288
    edited August 2014

    Mr. T, indeed, though its worth pointing out ISIS was born, or at least had its infancy, in Syria, rather than Iraq.

    Incorrect, Mr Dancer. ISIS has its origins in the various Al Qaeda-affiliates in Iraq that came into being after Saddam was toppled.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited August 2014
    For cricket lovers:

    Nigel Farage ‏@Nigel_Farage 3m
    Brilliant stuff from Broad and Anderson, Brave by Dhoni, what a start #EngVInd

    "After the start was delayed by 30 minutes because of rain, MS Dhoni won the toss and elected to bat first. He then padded up half an hour later as James Anderson and Stuart Broad took two wickets each to reduce India to 8-4. Despite the skipper digging in for 71, his team had no chance from that position and India were eventually skittled for 152 just before tea." BBC sport
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    currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Terrible to read of the attempt to wipe out the Yazidis. When I watched the news whilst eating lunch, though, both rolling channels had blanket coverage of the Pistorius trial. Is it more important than genocide?

    I don't think so. And. compared to the Gaza situation (which does deserve a lot of coverage), ISIS is getting very little.

    I wonder what Warsi thinks about the situation in Iraq and wonder why she did not resign about the Governments policy on that.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    SeanT said:

    "The tragedy of Iraq was not merely it being wholly unnecessarily and fantastically poorly planned, but the lies told to get us into it. Now we have an electorate willing to believe politicians would lie about matters of war and peace, because a Prime Minister did just that."

    Best comment of the morning, probably the day and, when it comes to foreign affairs, probably the year. Well said, Mr. Dancer.

    Moreover, the tragedy of Iraq has made it much harder to get voter support for western military intervention, even when it might be justified. America under Obama is enfeebled, and virtually isolationist.
    It won't end there either.

    Pat Condell ‏@patcondell 1m
    "In one day, they killed more than two thousand Yazidi in Sinjar, and the whole world says, ‘Save Gaza, save Gaza.’" http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183813
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11018994/Alex-Salmond-declares-its-our-pound-and-were-keeping-it.html

    "It's our pound, and we're keeping it".

    I don't see why Salmond expects that an independent nation would have to bow to the demands of another independent nation.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    SeanT said:

    "The tragedy of Iraq was not merely it being wholly unnecessarily and fantastically poorly planned, but the lies told to get us into it. Now we have an electorate willing to believe politicians would lie about matters of war and peace, because a Prime Minister did just that."

    Best comment of the morning, probably the day and, when it comes to foreign affairs, probably the year. Well said, Mr. Dancer.

    Moreover, the tragedy of Iraq has made it much harder to get voter support for western military intervention, even when it might be justified. America under Obama is enfeebled, and virtually isolationist.
    I agree, but do remember also the Libya nonsense will also make it much harder, probably impossible, to get a motion for action through the UN ever again. Blair and Cameron two fools allowed too much power and who both hugely damaged the UK's standing in the world by showing themselves up to be liars.
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    edited August 2014
    MikeK said:

    New Daily Patriot ‏@newdailypatriot 51m
    BREAKING NEWS FROM THE IMMIGRANT HELLHOLE OF NEWHAM,EAST LONDON.

    EXCLUSIVE: Twenty pupils have tested positive... http://fb.me/3QbxZGL3M

    TB is making a big comeback in the UK, after it was all but eradicated 40 years ago.

    TB deaths have continued to fall; there has been no "comeback".

    http://www.hpa.org.uk/webc/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1317140340361

    TB is most virulent in crowded areas comparable to Victorian living standards. Unfortunately there are still people who live in such conditions, frequently migrants, but the possibility for many more cases is remote.

    More details: http://www.hpa.org.uk/webw/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1317139689732
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    MikeK said:

    SeanT said:

    "The tragedy of Iraq was not merely it being wholly unnecessarily and fantastically poorly planned, but the lies told to get us into it. Now we have an electorate willing to believe politicians would lie about matters of war and peace, because a Prime Minister did just that."

    Best comment of the morning, probably the day and, when it comes to foreign affairs, probably the year. Well said, Mr. Dancer.

    Moreover, the tragedy of Iraq has made it much harder to get voter support for western military intervention, even when it might be justified. America under Obama is enfeebled, and virtually isolationist.
    It won't end there either.

    Pat Condell ‏@patcondell 1m
    "In one day, they killed more than two thousand Yazidi in Sinjar, and the whole world says, ‘Save Gaza, save Gaza.’" http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183813
    The UN reported that of the 1,737 fatal casualties of the Iraq conflict during July, 1,186 were civilians.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Llama, unfair to bracket Cameron with Blair.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    I see Paddy has gone to 4/6 for Boris to stand in Uxbridge. That 4/1 didnt last long!

    8/15 on the current cabinet lasting to the GE still available (Clegg's reshuffle will be in autumn meaning this is surely almost free money).
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    MikeK said:

    "...India were eventually skittled for 152 just before tea." BBC sport

    [Sunil runs diagnostic on Tebbit Chip]
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Llama, unfair to bracket Cameron with Blair.

    No, Mr. Dancer it is not. Consider what we did in Libya as opposed to what we said we wanted to do. Cameron lied, he obtained a UN resolution through false pretences. Other nations in the world will have noticed. Indeed, I am quietly convinced that Iraq in 2003 and the Libyan fiasco are the direct originators of the current situation in Ukraine.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Llama, I must beg to differ.

    I think you should also consider that the Syrian vote in Parliament (where both sides managed to want action and achieve nothing because of party political dancing on the head of a pin) and Obama's worthless red line as perhaps even more important than the Iraq war.

    Putin saw that Obama's red line wasn't worth a damn. The EU is very talented at bureaucratic bullshit and getting things by stealth but when it comes to hard power it's as fearsome as the army of Liechtenstein.
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    Incidentally, the record for the most ducks in an innings is six (on three separate occasions). India currently have five.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/28589543

    India have equalled that record - six ducks in one innings:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/scorecard/88640
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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    [In London I tend to live off Tesco ready meals @£3]

    LIKE - Me too - for, admittedly the best part of a decade, which I get the impression is just not on with some of these foodie types #GBBO

    I can't believe you as good a spinner as you are. I'm willing to put the factual slips to memory problems that we all must have.

    If you're doing it deliberately you are an evil genius and I'd probably have to re-think my views on at least 650 people.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Incidentally, the record for the most ducks in an innings is six (on three separate occasions). India currently have five.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/28589543

    India have equalled that record - six ducks in one innings:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/scorecard/88640
    - are they in a row?
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    SeanT said:


    Well, my blog on the poor Yazidi has now got 2000 shares and 700 comments, so I'm doing my bit - feeble as it - to raise awareness.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100282674/death-of-a-religion-isis-and-the-yezidi/

    Two of the most important chapters in Genesis Secret are set in Yazidi towns, Dohuk and Lalesh, where the starving Yazidi refugees are now awaiting the butchers of ISIS.

    And here's a Kurdish news anchor breaking down in tears as he describes the suffering:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3YZggR2L6w&app=desktop

    It's just unspeakable. And yet the US and UK apparently do nothing about ISIS? And we are halfway responsible for their rise to Satanic power, with our idiotic Iraqi intervention, which f*cked up everything.

    Jeez.

    "And yet the US and UK apparently do nothing about ISIS?"

    If for the sake of argument you say there are two main driving forces in the media deciding what bits of foreign news gets reported and what doesn't and that those two forces can be described (simplifying) as neocon or guardianista then

    1) The neocons are keeping quiet because ISIS are aligned with US interests: anti-Maliki and anti-Assad.**

    2) Guardianistas (understandably in this case) don't want any more western meddling in Iraq as it always seems to make things worse.

    (** There's also the possibility that ISIS were created by western allies in the Gulf (if not the US directly) to fight Assad leading to embarrassing revelations. This could be true even if you don't believe they were directly helped because the drenching of rebel Syria with western arms will have lowered the price making it possible for freelance psychos to trade for what they wanted.)



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    Tim_B said:

    Incidentally, the record for the most ducks in an innings is six (on three separate occasions). India currently have five.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/28589543

    India have equalled that record - six ducks in one innings:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/scorecard/88640
    - are they in a row?
    Nope, check the link.
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    edited August 2014

    Mr. T, indeed, though its worth pointing out ISIS was born, or at least had its infancy, in Syria, rather than Iraq.

    Incorrect, Mr Dancer. ISIS has its origins in the various Al Qaeda-affiliates in Iraq that came into being after Saddam was toppled.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

    Original origin yes but my understanding is they turned into a big player in Syria (possibly because if you step over a line in the desert then weaponry for people saying they want to fight Assad is cheap and easily available whereas on the other side of the line it isn't).

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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    Mr. Llama, unfair to bracket Cameron with Blair.

    No, Mr. Dancer it is not. Consider what we did in Libya as opposed to what we said we wanted to do. Cameron lied, he obtained a UN resolution through false pretences. Other nations in the world will have noticed. Indeed, I am quietly convinced that Iraq in 2003 and the Libyan fiasco are the direct originators of the current situation in Ukraine.
    I don't agree. Everyone knew what the UN Resolution meant, whatever it said. The Russians and Chinese weren't in the dark. There was no hidden evidence, no dossiers, no nothing. (Whatever might be the conclusion of the Chilcot inquiry)
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FPT

    @HurstLlama - according to local radio here, Russia is the second biggest export market for American chicken, and pistachios are also a major export to there

    @FrankBooth - disgraceful disregard for the facts in a random allegation against a major UK employer. Look at clinicaltrials.gov. All clinical trials, whether favorable or not, have to be published.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited August 2014
    SeanT said:

    What can we do about ISIS? Why aren't we arming the Kurds with everything they need? They seem to be the only remotely sane, coherent and stable force in the region. America has all the materiel it needs in the area.

    Give the Kurds the tools to tackle ISIS.

    Because Obama is arguably the worst President in living memory.

    (or at least since Carter).
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Charles, worse than George W Bush?

    I wonder if that'd be practically a debate over whether sins of commission and worse than sins of omission.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Video footage of the ISIS mass executions reported last month...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cfwAA-B01Y

    WARNING: VERY GRAPHIC
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    Does anyone care about who is on Labour shortlist for Ashton under Lyne (majority 23.7%)'
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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380

    Does anyone care about who is on Labour shortlist for Ashton under Lyne (majority 23.7%)'

    I care that you post it Andrea - for conventions sake.

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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    edited August 2014
    Andrea has posted this on Twitter.

    Labour shortlist for Ashton announced http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/all-woman-labour-shortlist-announced-ashton-under-lyne-7578406

    No jokes about keeping nominations in the family - daughter of Trafford Council leader on the list.
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    Tim_B said:

    Incidentally, the record for the most ducks in an innings is six (on three separate occasions). India currently have five.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/28589543

    India have equalled that record - six ducks in one innings:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/scorecard/88640
    - are they in a row?
    Nope, check the link.
    Sunil

    For info ...

    "Getting your ducks in a row" is originally an American saying meaning to get organised.
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    I was only waiting for a generous soul ready for them....:-)

    The shortlist (an AWS) is composed by

    Ann Courtney (Middleton activist, worked for Andy Burnham during his leadership campaign, shortlisted in Blackburn)

    Victoria Desmond (immigration caseworker for Brent North MP, just graduated from London School of Economics, originally from Tameside)

    Catherine Hynes (Cllr in Trafford, previously shortlisted for Wythenshawe and Sale East by-election)

    Angela Rayner (Unison official from Stockport, previously shortlisted in Manchester Withington)
    www.angelarayner.com/about_angela

    Julie Reid (Manchester Gorton Cllr, Works at Ashton 6th Form college)
    juliereid4ashton.blogspot.co.uk

    Jean Stretton (Oldham Cllr, ward within the constituency)


    Manchester Evening News reports that Rayner has the highest number of nominations followed by Stretton
    JBriskin said:

    Does anyone care about who is on Labour shortlist for Ashton under Lyne (majority 23.7%)'

    I care that you post it Andrea - for conventions sake.

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Mr. Charles, worse than George W Bush?

    I wonder if that'd be practically a debate over whether sins of commission and worse than sins of omission.

    Yes, if you look at his record.

    The disaster in Iraq (yes Bush initiated the problem - mainly down to poor planning for the aftermath - but with the Surge had basically fixed it), the roll-back in Afghanistan, the lack of credibility facing Russia (which has impacted Ukraine), the red line debacle in Syria, the betrayal of Poland, etc, etc.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Charles, what was the Polish betrayal?
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft · 6 mins
    . @David_Cameron @Ed_Miliband @Nigel_Farage the Yazidi the Yazidi the Yazidi the Yazidi the Yazidi the Yazidi the Yazidi the Yazidi the ....

    Can we really sit by for another genocide?
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Grandiose said:

    Mr. Llama, unfair to bracket Cameron with Blair.

    No, Mr. Dancer it is not. Consider what we did in Libya as opposed to what we said we wanted to do. Cameron lied, he obtained a UN resolution through false pretences. Other nations in the world will have noticed. Indeed, I am quietly convinced that Iraq in 2003 and the Libyan fiasco are the direct originators of the current situation in Ukraine.
    I don't agree. Everyone knew what the UN Resolution meant, whatever it said. The Russians and Chinese weren't in the dark. There was no hidden evidence, no dossiers, no nothing. (Whatever might be the conclusion of the Chilcot inquiry)
    Really, did the UN resolution on Libya say a no fly zone in order to prevent a human catastrophe or did it say become the air force for the rebels and with the assistance of special forces on the ground become the agent for regime change. What's worse we couldn't even manage the last bit, instead of installing a new regime we just allowed the place to descend into anarchy and chaos. We couldn't even put up a warship to evacuate our nationals this week.

    Other nations will watch and learn. Primarily Russia, of course, who will amongst many lessons have picked up on the idea that if one has the strength then one can ignore anything from the UN, after all the USA and The UK and their friends did.
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    I am intrigued by Alex Salmond's idea that the rUK will agree to Scottish independence if it refuses to a deal on debt repayments in the case of their not being a currency union.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Rod

    That direct link video has been taken down previously.

    PB does get younger viewers.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    if one has the strength then one can ignore anything from the UN

    'Twas ever thus ?

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Observer, it's a recipe for serious bitterness. No debts = no assets will be a line some advocate.

    He (and Yes generally) seem to be utterly unaware that independence would involve negotiation with the rest of the UK, not dictating terms.
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    edited August 2014
    On the ISIS thing, the pieces involved imo

    (based purely on reading and a few rellies who were out there some years ago so no claim to expertise)

    1) The Iraqi army can't fight. (I assume this is because of corruption and they sell their ammo and petrol on the black market so literally can't fight.)

    2) Maliki also has Shia militias who can defend towns but can't take them without heavy weapons or air support.

    3) The US don't want to give Maliki air support.

    4) Russia/Iran has given Maliki air support and it is being used but either it's not enough or Russia is holding them back because it doesn't want to be seen as taking sides in a Sunni vs Shia civil war**

    5) Sunni tribes with genuine grievances with Maliki - same as the Shia militia in terms of ability

    6) ISIS - fanatical and with a substantial component of freelance psychos so more capable than the rest of the competition so far

    7) Kurds - very capable but limited heavy weapons and no air force.


    So solution (for anyone who'd prefer ISIS to stay in areas where the locals have a genuine grievance**) is Kurds plus Iraqi air force. That couldn't happen until the freelance psycho component in ISIS went too far.

    So if my guess is right the Iraqi air force will now be helping the Kurds retake the towns near the Kurdish area (although not necessarily any further than that).


    (** It's not really a religious civil war even though it is on the surface. Those parts of the world are very nepotistic so people in power give all the jobs to their relatives. As Shia / Sunni are divided on marriage lines then their relatives are divided on religious lines also so when Sunnis are in charge they give all the jobs to their relatives - who all happen to be Sunni - and when Shias are in charge they give all the jobs to their relatives - who all happen to be Shia. So basically whichever side is in charge the other side will have a genuine grievance.)

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Mr. Charles, what was the Polish betrayal?

    Cancelling the missile defence system after the Poles had p1sed off Russia by pushing ahead with it at America's request...
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SeanT said:

    Mr. Charles, worse than George W Bush?

    I wonder if that'd be practically a debate over whether sins of commission and worse than sins of omission.

    America has had two rubbish presidents in a row. 8 years of stupidity and blundering followed by 8 years of prevarication and cluelessness.

    Yet both got RE-elected? American democracy is malfunctioning.
    I'm still going to go with Carter as number 2, but could accept GW as the third worst...
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Charles, that's just shitty. In modern parlance, it's a dick move.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Mr. Charles, that's just shitty. In modern parlance, it's a dick move.

    Putin said 'boo' and Obama jumped.
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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Scottish thread-

    Guido/Rangers link-

    What's not to love-

    http://order-order.com/2014/08/07/todays-outstanding-contribution-to-statistical-excellence/

    Vive Ecossais (we spent less less than one minute for that sign off - hope you like it)
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    JBriskin said:

    Scottish thread-

    Guido/Rangers link-

    What's not to love-

    http://order-order.com/2014/08/07/todays-outstanding-contribution-to-statistical-excellence/

    Vive Ecossais (we spent less less than one minute for that sign off - hope you like it)

    Lib Dems would be proud :')
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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    edited August 2014

    Mr. Charles, that's just shitty. In modern parlance, it's a dick move.

    Yeah the Cuban missile crisis must have been great fun.

    [wiki link to Cuban missle crisis]
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    SeanT said:

    Charles said:

    Mr. Charles, worse than George W Bush?

    I wonder if that'd be practically a debate over whether sins of commission and worse than sins of omission.

    Yes, if you look at his record.

    The disaster in Iraq (yes Bush initiated the problem - mainly down to poor planning for the aftermath - but with the Surge had basically fixed it), the roll-back in Afghanistan, the lack of credibility facing Russia (which has impacted Ukraine), the red line debacle in Syria, the betrayal of Poland, etc, etc.
    The idea that America had "basically fixed Iraq" with the Surge is nonsensical. With an enormous effort the US managed to achieve a temporary lull in the violence. They never fixed what they broke - Iraq was still riven with sectarian hatred, neighbouring countries were still dealing with the destabilisation, refugees continued to flee, on and on and on.

    The war was a disastrous error in every single respect, and most Iraqis are worse off now than they were under Saddam.
    Also the success of the Surge (although it was clever imo and will be studied in war colleges from now till doomsday) was greatly helped by the Sunni tribes switching sides because the AQ people went too far doing stuff like executing kids for selling cigs.
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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    edited August 2014
    RobD said:

    JBriskin said:

    Scottish thread-

    Guido/Rangers link-

    What's not to love-

    http://order-order.com/2014/08/07/todays-outstanding-contribution-to-statistical-excellence/

    Vive Ecossais (we spent less less than one minute for that sign off - hope you like it)

    Lib Dems would be proud :')
    Yes - well that jokes in the article - still, good banter for the non-clickers.

    I must apologise for my verbosity today people - blame the 1am Embargoer and my drinking patterns.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    JBriskin said:

    RobD said:

    JBriskin said:

    Scottish thread-

    Guido/Rangers link-

    What's not to love-

    http://order-order.com/2014/08/07/todays-outstanding-contribution-to-statistical-excellence/

    Vive Ecossais (we spent less less than one minute for that sign off - hope you like it)

    Lib Dems would be proud :')
    Yes - well that jokes in the article - still, good banter for the non-clickers.

    I must apologise for my verbosity today people - blame the 1am Embargoer and my drinking patterns.
    Ah to be fair I was looking at the picture, as opposed to the text ;)
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MrJones said:

    SeanT said:

    Charles said:

    Mr. Charles, worse than George W Bush?

    I wonder if that'd be practically a debate over whether sins of commission and worse than sins of omission.

    Yes, if you look at his record.

    The disaster in Iraq (yes Bush initiated the problem - mainly down to poor planning for the aftermath - but with the Surge had basically fixed it), the roll-back in Afghanistan, the lack of credibility facing Russia (which has impacted Ukraine), the red line debacle in Syria, the betrayal of Poland, etc, etc.
    The idea that America had "basically fixed Iraq" with the Surge is nonsensical. With an enormous effort the US managed to achieve a temporary lull in the violence. They never fixed what they broke - Iraq was still riven with sectarian hatred, neighbouring countries were still dealing with the destabilisation, refugees continued to flee, on and on and on.

    The war was a disastrous error in every single respect, and most Iraqis are worse off now than they were under Saddam.
    Also the success of the Surge (although it was clever imo and will be studied in war colleges from now till doomsday) was greatly helped by the Sunni tribes switching sides because the AQ people went too far doing stuff like executing kids for selling cigs.
    That's a fair point - as always in these tribal societies it is getting the tribal leaders to switch that matters.

    Al-Malaki has a huge amount of blood on his hands. He just didn't know when to say 'Enough. I'm full'.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited August 2014
    Pulpstar said:

    if one has the strength then one can ignore anything from the UN

    'Twas ever thus ?

    Maybe, but I think with the end of the cold war there was a genuine chance to make it become what it was supposed to be. Remember the Soviets, by which we really mean Russia, and China have always played a very straight bat when it comes to international agreements. They give their word and expect it to be taken. They have previously expected the USA, the UK et al to do the same.

    As an aside one found the same attitude with the PIRA who despite being a terrorist organisation was always careful to comply with their stated agreements and got very shirty if the they thought that HMG were not doing likewise. There were times when we thought that PIRA were more trustworthy than dear old HMG.

    Anyway, with Iraq in 2003 and with Libya the "West" showed that they did not give a hoot about the UN, except as it suited them. People in power in countries not always allied to ours see such things and learn. Those people are now learning a new set of lessons, ones that reinforce they learned from Rawanda and Sebrenicia - the west cares about genocide and terrorism only if it hits their TV screens Keep it off the BBC and you can do what the fuck you like, nobody in the West will care enough. Even if the BBC do start running the story in a way that is unhelpful, if you have the power on the ground, just ignore it and they will go away.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Llama, China's been very slick diplomatically for a while, but the sea/land grab in the southern seas (where there happen to be lots of resources) looks quite otherwise.

    Russia was also a signatory to an agreement respecting Ukraine's territorial integrity. That's hardly been kept to.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    Fair play to @SeanT for being one of the first in the media to pick up on the plight of the Yazidi
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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    isam said:

    Fair play to @SeanT for being one of the first in the media to pick up on the plight of the Yazidi

    Sorry - I'm a follower of this hippy/commie/activist/whatever she is and the timings match so-


    Retweeted by Abby Martin


    Graham Hancock ‏@Graham__Hancock · Jul 29
    If it's OK to sky dive, bungee jump, drive fast cars and drink booze, why is it not OK to explore our own consciousness with psychedelics?



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    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Well - it says Jul 29 - but it literally just popped up as I was thinking of a reply.
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    hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    Is there any reason why Salmond does not just say that Scotland would issue their own currency, if they could not use Pound Sterling ?

    Are there implications in doing this ? Potential for higher interest rates ?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. 67, English customers of Scottish-based financial institutions withdrawing from those firms unless they relocate south, one would've thought.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited August 2014

    Mr. Llama, China's been very slick diplomatically for a while, but the sea/land grab in the southern seas (where there happen to be lots of resources) looks quite otherwise.

    Russia was also a signatory to an agreement respecting Ukraine's territorial integrity. That's hardly been kept to.

    Thanks Mr. D. you provide evidence to support my point. The Chinese and Russian "grabs" post-date the Iraq invasion. They also post-date (and I was hoping not to have to make this point) the defeats in Iraq and Afghanistan, when both the USA (again) and NATO as a whole proved that it could be beaten because it had neither the resolve to commit the resources necessary nor the willingness to fight the battle that needed to be fought and in fact would run away if they suffered what in WWII terms were trivial casualties.

    There is that old saying along the lines that its better to remain quiet and let people wonder if you are an idiot rather than opening one's mouth and confirming the fact. All the time that NATO and the wider "West" kept out of combat they could, reasonably, expect its enemies not to be sure of just how capable it was. They now know.

    We seem from news this morning seem to be in a trade war with with Russia. They must know that if the conflict escalates it will be the "West" that will blink first.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,942
    PeterC said:

    The true scale of Salmond's failure to think through the currency issue is laid bare. He needs to lance the boil immediately or he will sail on to total shipwreck.

    An independent Scotland must have its own currency with a 1:1 peg to sterling. There is a respectable precedent in the form of the Irish Free State and the punt, where sterling parity was maintained for many years. The peg may not be that durable in Scotland's case and a free float may become necessary in due course. This is a secondary matter and is far less daunting than the nonsense of currency union or sterlingisation.

    And then there is the small matter of the mechanics of bank account conversion and the prevention of capital flight.

    Idiots failure to listen to what he says is the issue. He clearly stated that there are many options but his first preference is CU. How hard is that to understand.
    FFS the unionists plan B is a CU, they do not have any other choices.
    What kind of a turnip head are you. Intelligent people in Scotland know what he is saying.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,942
    hucks67 said:

    Is there any reason why Salmond does not just say that Scotland would issue their own currency, if they could not use Pound Sterling ?

    Are there implications in doing this ? Potential for higher interest rates ?

    It just gives the losers something to bitch about and say he is changing again. He has clearly stated it is ONLY his preferred option NOT his only option.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,942
    RobD said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11018994/Alex-Salmond-declares-its-our-pound-and-were-keeping-it.html

    "It's our pound, and we're keeping it".

    I don't see why Salmond expects that an independent nation would have to bow to the demands of another independent nation.

    Anybody can use the pound
  • Options
    JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    edited August 2014
    hucks67 said:

    Is there any reason why Salmond does not just say that Scotland would issue their own currency, if they could not use Pound Sterling ?

    Are there implications in doing this ? Potential for higher interest rates ?

    Okay - I will attempt some seriousness for the post office worker crowd-

    For whatever reasons - presumably economic with helpings of political expediency - they chose the GBP option.

    Obviously there would be implications of a Scotland only currency.

    All I know for sure - Is that I watched pretty much all of the Carney speech (Live on Sky News! -Yeah!) - and he indicated that it was entirely plausible - and perhaps not a bad option, for an Independent Scotland. [edit - I'm talking about the GBP option in this paragraph]

    It would have been a lot more fun if he went through all the options - Probably not in his remit.

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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11018994/Alex-Salmond-declares-its-our-pound-and-were-keeping-it.html

    "It's our pound, and we're keeping it".

    I don't see why Salmond expects that an independent nation would have to bow to the demands of another independent nation.

    Anybody can use the pound
    If they can get hold of them.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11018994/Alex-Salmond-declares-its-our-pound-and-were-keeping-it.html

    "It's our pound, and we're keeping it".

    I don't see why Salmond expects that an independent nation would have to bow to the demands of another independent nation.

    Anybody can use the pound
    Not everyone can have a currency union.
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    FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Watch what Obama does not what he says, Syria, Ukraine, Libya, Palestine, China, he has been very aggressive and been happy to initiate as well as support conflict. The modus operandi has changed, drones, advisers, NGOs, outsourcing the fighting to locals and mercenaries etc., but the goal hasn't.
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    malcolmg said:

    PeterC said:

    The true scale of Salmond's failure to think through the currency issue is laid bare. He needs to lance the boil immediately or he will sail on to total shipwreck.

    An independent Scotland must have its own currency with a 1:1 peg to sterling. There is a respectable precedent in the form of the Irish Free State and the punt, where sterling parity was maintained for many years. The peg may not be that durable in Scotland's case and a free float may become necessary in due course. This is a secondary matter and is far less daunting than the nonsense of currency union or sterlingisation.

    And then there is the small matter of the mechanics of bank account conversion and the prevention of capital flight.

    Idiots failure to listen to what he says is the issue. He clearly stated that there are many options but his first preference is CU. How hard is that to understand.
    FFS the unionists plan B is a CU, they do not have any other choices.
    What kind of a turnip head are you. Intelligent people in Scotland know what he is saying.
    Thats Salmond's problem, intelligent people in Scotland DO know what he is saying.

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    SeanT said:

    Hah. Small Explosion in Irony Factory.

    My Telegraph blog on the Yazidi has just been retweeted by..... the Tony Blair Faith Foundation.


    Unbelievable.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Evershed, more believable than Blair becoming Middle East peace envoy.
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