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Most former PMs and govts would love midterm polling like this – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,330

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is not NATO that is the problem, NATO removed the Taliban and Al Qaeda from Afghanistan after 9/11 killed thousands in NYC, including 67 Britons. It is the Biden and Harris administration that has abandoned Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. It is also Biden and Trump who have weakened their commitment to NATO in both Europe and Afghanistan. It is the Biden and Harris administration and the Democrats who control Congress who will be judged on this at next year's midterms and the 2024 presidential election.

    Completely wrong.

    NATO subdued the Taliban, or rather made them go back to their homes and store their AKs after 9/11.

    NATO then, lead by the US, turned its attention to Iraq.

    And hence allowed the Taliban to manifest themselves once again.

    And when NATO went back into Afghan in 2006 the result was what we have seen over the past few weeks.
    The US withdrew most of its troops from Iraq in 2011, the Taliban did not regain Kabul until this summer.

    Even if there had been no Iraq invasion at all if the US was not prepared to commit to keep troops in Afghanistan permanently as it has in S Korea and Germany, then eventually the Taliban would regain power and jihadi militants would return
    Bingo. But you are blaming Biden and Trump particularly Biden. You are wrong. The Taliban began the takeover process over 15 years ago.
    It's the comparison of Afghanistan with Germany / S Korea which is rather sillier.
    No it isn't. The US had troops in Germany to keep out Russia, in S Korea to keep out N Korea and in Afghanistan to keep out the Taliban and AQ and other jihadi militants
    OK last chance. HYUFD your starter for 10. What is the difference between the US troops in Germany, Sth Korea and Afghanistan?

    No conferring.
    None, they are all there or were there to preserve western values and freedom and protect our national security
    LOL dear god man.

    Okay here's your clue: in only ONE of those places were/are the US troops combatants. Does that help bring it all to life for you and the differences between those examples?
    Wrong, US troops were combatants in South Korea when North Korea invaded and stayed to keep them out.

    US troops were also combatants in Germany to remove the Nazis then stayed to keep the Soviets advancing into West Germany from East Germany
    Life for US troops in Afghanistan after 20 years was a lot spicier than life was in either South Korea or Germany after 20 years. But I think you are correct with your broad point. Afghanistan was a multi generational project whereas the rebuilding of civil society in the others were complete within two decades.

    With about half the country now under the age of 20, it actually may not have taken as long as some feared for the changes in society to have been stickier. Another 10-20 years and we may have had a relatively stable country at the core, with unstable border regions thanks to external actors.
    Hmmm: the areas with the higher birth rates were the rural ones, where the remit of the central government was a lot weaker.

    All about how many babies you have, innit?

    Maybe the West should adopt policies that encourage us to breed like rabbits.
    That would require more religion, the more you are a strict Christian, Muslim or Jewish family the more likely you are to have lots of children. Hence the highest birthrates in the world now are in Africa, South Asia, the Middle East and amongst Orthodox Jews, especially in Israel
    That engenders a few frightening thoughts.
    There is something of the fundamentalist about HYUFD.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 596
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is not NATO that is the problem, NATO removed the Taliban and Al Qaeda from Afghanistan after 9/11 killed thousands in NYC, including 67 Britons. It is the Biden and Harris administration that has abandoned Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. It is also Biden and Trump who have weakened their commitment to NATO in both Europe and Afghanistan. It is the Biden and Harris administration and the Democrats who control Congress who will be judged on this at next year's midterms and the 2024 presidential election.

    Completely wrong.

    NATO subdued the Taliban, or rather made them go back to their homes and store their AKs after 9/11.

    NATO then, lead by the US, turned its attention to Iraq.

    And hence allowed the Taliban to manifest themselves once again.

    And when NATO went back into Afghan in 2006 the result was what we have seen over the past few weeks.
    The US withdrew most of its troops from Iraq in 2011, the Taliban did not regain Kabul until this summer.

    Even if there had been no Iraq invasion at all if the US was not prepared to commit to keep troops in Afghanistan permanently as it has in S Korea and Germany, then eventually the Taliban would regain power and jihadi militants would return
    Bingo. But you are blaming Biden and Trump particularly Biden. You are wrong. The Taliban began the takeover process over 15 years ago.
    It's the comparison of Afghanistan with Germany / S Korea which is rather sillier.
    No it isn't. The US had troops in Germany to keep out Russia, in S Korea to keep out N Korea and in Afghanistan to keep out the Taliban and AQ and other jihadi militants
    OK last chance. HYUFD your starter for 10. What is the difference between the US troops in Germany, Sth Korea and Afghanistan?

    No conferring.
    None, they are all there or were there to preserve western values and freedom and protect our national security
    LOL dear god man.

    Okay here's your clue: in only ONE of those places were/are the US troops combatants. Does that help bring it all to life for you and the differences between those examples?
    Wrong, US troops were combatants in South Korea when North Korea invaded and stayed to keep them out.

    US troops were also combatants in Germany to remove the Nazis then stayed to keep the Soviets advancing into West Germany from East Germany
    Life for US troops in Afghanistan after 20 years was a lot spicier than life was in either South Korea or Germany after 20 years. But I think you are correct with your broad point. Afghanistan was a multi generational project whereas the rebuilding of civil society in the others were complete within two decades.

    With about half the country now under the age of 20, it actually may not have taken as long as some feared for the changes in society to have been stickier. Another 10-20 years and we may have had a relatively stable country at the core, with unstable border regions thanks to external actors.
    Hmmm: the areas with the higher birth rates were the rural ones, where the remit of the central government was a lot weaker.

    All about how many babies you have, innit?

    Maybe the West should adopt policies that encourage us to breed like rabbits.
    Very good - you managed to bring the two "threads" together in a single comment :smile:

    The French (very sensibly) have such policies. Have a baby, and get to add their tax thresholds to your own. It means that someone who earns €70,000 per year is actually better off after having a child than they were before. It subsidies people with jobs having children, but not those who do not.
    The other advantage of this is that it creates more equality, as rich people are incentived to have more kids and it splits up their inheritance, reducing consolidation of wealth.

    More kids born to people with resources also means a greater share of kids have large investment in them (private schools, tutors, extracurriculars etc).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,648
    CD13 said:

    We kept pet rabbits when I was a child. We ate them too.

    They were just as delicious when you knew their names.

    Oddly enough, guinea pigs don't seem to have incurred the same fate in the UK (in marked contrast to their native continent).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,330
    edited August 31
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is not NATO that is the problem, NATO removed the Taliban and Al Qaeda from Afghanistan after 9/11 killed thousands in NYC, including 67 Britons. It is the Biden and Harris administration that has abandoned Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. It is also Biden and Trump who have weakened their commitment to NATO in both Europe and Afghanistan. It is the Biden and Harris administration and the Democrats who control Congress who will be judged on this at next year's midterms and the 2024 presidential election.

    Completely wrong.

    NATO subdued the Taliban, or rather made them go back to their homes and store their AKs after 9/11.

    NATO then, lead by the US, turned its attention to Iraq.

    And hence allowed the Taliban to manifest themselves once again.

    And when NATO went back into Afghan in 2006 the result was what we have seen over the past few weeks.
    The US withdrew most of its troops from Iraq in 2011, the Taliban did not regain Kabul until this summer.

    Even if there had been no Iraq invasion at all if the US was not prepared to commit to keep troops in Afghanistan permanently as it has in S Korea and Germany, then eventually the Taliban would regain power and jihadi militants would return
    Bingo. But you are blaming Biden and Trump particularly Biden. You are wrong. The Taliban began the takeover process over 15 years ago.
    It's the comparison of Afghanistan with Germany / S Korea which is rather sillier.
    No it isn't. The US had troops in Germany to keep out Russia, in S Korea to keep out N Korea and in Afghanistan to keep out the Taliban and AQ and other jihadi militants
    OK last chance. HYUFD your starter for 10. What is the difference between the US troops in Germany, Sth Korea and Afghanistan?

    No conferring.
    None, they are all there or were there to preserve western values and freedom and protect our national security
    LOL dear god man.

    Okay here's your clue: in only ONE of those places were/are the US troops combatants. Does that help bring it all to life for you and the differences between those examples?
    Wrong, US troops were combatants in South Korea when North Korea invaded and stayed to keep them out.

    US troops were also combatants in Germany to remove the Nazis then stayed to keep the Soviets advancing into West Germany from East Germany
    Generally not in combat against the inhabitants of the country, though.

    The closer comparison, which you are avoiding either our of sheer stubbornness or ignorance, is Vietnam.
    Vietnam was closer to Korea than Afghanistan ie North Vietnam was only able to capure South Vietnam once the US withdrew troops.

    However the same principle applies, if US troops were still in South Vietnam it would probably be much like South Korea is today
    The only respect in which it compared with Korea was the body count.
    Much of which, a result of 'strategic' bombing of civilian targets.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,239
    Aslan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is not NATO that is the problem, NATO removed the Taliban and Al Qaeda from Afghanistan after 9/11 killed thousands in NYC, including 67 Britons. It is the Biden and Harris administration that has abandoned Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. It is also Biden and Trump who have weakened their commitment to NATO in both Europe and Afghanistan. It is the Biden and Harris administration and the Democrats who control Congress who will be judged on this at next year's midterms and the 2024 presidential election.

    Completely wrong.

    NATO subdued the Taliban, or rather made them go back to their homes and store their AKs after 9/11.

    NATO then, lead by the US, turned its attention to Iraq.

    And hence allowed the Taliban to manifest themselves once again.

    And when NATO went back into Afghan in 2006 the result was what we have seen over the past few weeks.
    The US withdrew most of its troops from Iraq in 2011, the Taliban did not regain Kabul until this summer.

    Even if there had been no Iraq invasion at all if the US was not prepared to commit to keep troops in Afghanistan permanently as it has in S Korea and Germany, then eventually the Taliban would regain power and jihadi militants would return
    Bingo. But you are blaming Biden and Trump particularly Biden. You are wrong. The Taliban began the takeover process over 15 years ago.
    It's the comparison of Afghanistan with Germany / S Korea which is rather sillier.
    No it isn't. The US had troops in Germany to keep out Russia, in S Korea to keep out N Korea and in Afghanistan to keep out the Taliban and AQ and other jihadi militants
    OK last chance. HYUFD your starter for 10. What is the difference between the US troops in Germany, Sth Korea and Afghanistan?

    No conferring.
    None, they are all there or were there to preserve western values and freedom and protect our national security
    LOL dear god man.

    Okay here's your clue: in only ONE of those places were/are the US troops combatants. Does that help bring it all to life for you and the differences between those examples?
    Wrong, US troops were combatants in South Korea when North Korea invaded and stayed to keep them out.

    US troops were also combatants in Germany to remove the Nazis then stayed to keep the Soviets advancing into West Germany from East Germany
    Life for US troops in Afghanistan after 20 years was a lot spicier than life was in either South Korea or Germany after 20 years. But I think you are correct with your broad point. Afghanistan was a multi generational project whereas the rebuilding of civil society in the others were complete within two decades.

    With about half the country now under the age of 20, it actually may not have taken as long as some feared for the changes in society to have been stickier. Another 10-20 years and we may have had a relatively stable country at the core, with unstable border regions thanks to external actors.
    Hmmm: the areas with the higher birth rates were the rural ones, where the remit of the central government was a lot weaker.

    All about how many babies you have, innit?

    Maybe the West should adopt policies that encourage us to breed like rabbits.
    Very good - you managed to bring the two "threads" together in a single comment :smile:

    The French (very sensibly) have such policies. Have a baby, and get to add their tax thresholds to your own. It means that someone who earns €70,000 per year is actually better off after having a child than they were before. It subsidies people with jobs having children, but not those who do not.
    The other advantage of this is that it creates more equality, as rich people are incentived to have more kids and it splits up their inheritance, reducing consolidation of wealth.

    More kids born to people with resources also means a greater share of kids have large investment in them (private schools, tutors, extracurriculars etc).
    Which leads to cries from the Left that you're against poor people breeding...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 25,872
    On rabbits (literally):

    They really are the most suicidal little fluffy things. I've been driving to do early-morning runs, and I frequently come across rabbits in the roads just before dawn. They sit there as I approach. I move over to pass them, and they either dart to the safe verge, or straight towards my new direction. I then move back to the proper line, and as often as not they change direction and *crunch* - there's one less bunny.

    I don't like it happening, but it's hard to know what to do without going down roads at twenty miles per hour.

    I've been doing a few runs in Cambridge, and I've seen four urban foxes in two runs. They're utterly unafraid of humans.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 2,503
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is not NATO that is the problem, NATO removed the Taliban and Al Qaeda from Afghanistan after 9/11 killed thousands in NYC, including 67 Britons. It is the Biden and Harris administration that has abandoned Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. It is also Biden and Trump who have weakened their commitment to NATO in both Europe and Afghanistan. It is the Biden and Harris administration and the Democrats who control Congress who will be judged on this at next year's midterms and the 2024 presidential election.

    Completely wrong.

    NATO subdued the Taliban, or rather made them go back to their homes and store their AKs after 9/11.

    NATO then, lead by the US, turned its attention to Iraq.

    And hence allowed the Taliban to manifest themselves once again.

    And when NATO went back into Afghan in 2006 the result was what we have seen over the past few weeks.
    The US withdrew most of its troops from Iraq in 2011, the Taliban did not regain Kabul until this summer.

    Even if there had been no Iraq invasion at all if the US was not prepared to commit to keep troops in Afghanistan permanently as it has in S Korea and Germany, then eventually the Taliban would regain power and jihadi militants would return
    Bingo. But you are blaming Biden and Trump particularly Biden. You are wrong. The Taliban began the takeover process over 15 years ago.
    It's the comparison of Afghanistan with Germany / S Korea which is rather sillier.
    No it isn't. The US had troops in Germany to keep out Russia, in S Korea to keep out N Korea and in Afghanistan to keep out the Taliban and AQ and other jihadi militants
    OK last chance. HYUFD your starter for 10. What is the difference between the US troops in Germany, Sth Korea and Afghanistan?

    No conferring.
    None, they are all there or were there to preserve western values and freedom and protect our national security
    LOL dear god man.

    Okay here's your clue: in only ONE of those places were/are the US troops combatants. Does that help bring it all to life for you and the differences between those examples?
    Wrong, US troops were combatants in South Korea when North Korea invaded and stayed to keep them out.

    US troops were also combatants in Germany to remove the Nazis then stayed to keep the Soviets advancing into West Germany from East Germany
    Life for US troops in Afghanistan after 20 years was a lot spicier than life was in either South Korea or Germany after 20 years. But I think you are correct with your broad point. Afghanistan was a multi generational project whereas the rebuilding of civil society in the others were complete within two decades.

    With about half the country now under the age of 20, it actually may not have taken as long as some feared for the changes in society to have been stickier. Another 10-20 years and we may have had a relatively stable country at the core, with unstable border regions thanks to external actors.
    Hmmm: the areas with the higher birth rates were the rural ones, where the remit of the central government was a lot weaker.

    All about how many babies you have, innit?

    Maybe the West should adopt policies that encourage us to breed like rabbits.
    That would require more religion, the more you are a strict Christian, Muslim or Jewish family the more likely you are to have lots of children. Hence the highest birthrates in the world now are in Africa, South Asia, the Middle East and amongst Orthodox Jews, especially in Israel
    Our prime minister seems to demonstrate that having multiple religions at different time points ups the child count even more!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 89,223
    edited August 31
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is not NATO that is the problem, NATO removed the Taliban and Al Qaeda from Afghanistan after 9/11 killed thousands in NYC, including 67 Britons. It is the Biden and Harris administration that has abandoned Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. It is also Biden and Trump who have weakened their commitment to NATO in both Europe and Afghanistan. It is the Biden and Harris administration and the Democrats who control Congress who will be judged on this at next year's midterms and the 2024 presidential election.

    Completely wrong.

    NATO subdued the Taliban, or rather made them go back to their homes and store their AKs after 9/11.

    NATO then, lead by the US, turned its attention to Iraq.

    And hence allowed the Taliban to manifest themselves once again.

    And when NATO went back into Afghan in 2006 the result was what we have seen over the past few weeks.
    The US withdrew most of its troops from Iraq in 2011, the Taliban did not regain Kabul until this summer.

    Even if there had been no Iraq invasion at all if the US was not prepared to commit to keep troops in Afghanistan permanently as it has in S Korea and Germany, then eventually the Taliban would regain power and jihadi militants would return
    Bingo. But you are blaming Biden and Trump particularly Biden. You are wrong. The Taliban began the takeover process over 15 years ago.
    It's the comparison of Afghanistan with Germany / S Korea which is rather sillier.
    No it isn't. The US had troops in Germany to keep out Russia, in S Korea to keep out N Korea and in Afghanistan to keep out the Taliban and AQ and other jihadi militants
    OK last chance. HYUFD your starter for 10. What is the difference between the US troops in Germany, Sth Korea and Afghanistan?

    No conferring.
    None, they are all there or were there to preserve western values and freedom and protect our national security
    LOL dear god man.

    Okay here's your clue: in only ONE of those places were/are the US troops combatants. Does that help bring it all to life for you and the differences between those examples?
    Wrong, US troops were combatants in South Korea when North Korea invaded and stayed to keep them out.

    US troops were also combatants in Germany to remove the Nazis then stayed to keep the Soviets advancing into West Germany from East Germany
    Life for US troops in Afghanistan after 20 years was a lot spicier than life was in either South Korea or Germany after 20 years. But I think you are correct with your broad point. Afghanistan was a multi generational project whereas the rebuilding of civil society in the others were complete within two decades.

    With about half the country now under the age of 20, it actually may not have taken as long as some feared for the changes in society to have been stickier. Another 10-20 years and we may have had a relatively stable country at the core, with unstable border regions thanks to external actors.
    Hmmm: the areas with the higher birth rates were the rural ones, where the remit of the central government was a lot weaker.

    All about how many babies you have, innit?

    Maybe the West should adopt policies that encourage us to breed like rabbits.
    That would require more religion, the more you are a strict Christian, Muslim or Jewish family the more likely you are to have lots of children. Hence the highest birthrates in the world now are in Africa, South Asia, the Middle East and amongst Orthodox Jews, especially in Israel
    Yet in Europe, the countries with higher religosity scores (Spain, Italy) actually have lower birth rates than countries with more atheists (Sweden, UK).

    But feel free to give me some reason why the data is wrong and you are right.
    Spain does not have that high a religiosity score at 49%. In fact almost every European nation is below the global median average on religiosity and below the world average birthrate of 2.4 children per mother.

    Romania has the highest religiosity score for Europe at 84% and a relatively high European birthrate of 1.76. Georgia where 81% say religion is important to them also has the highest European birthrate at 2.05 per mother.

    Both are higher than Sweden at 1.7 per mother and the UK at 1.65 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_total_fertility_rate
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_country
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,239

    On rabbits (literally):

    They really are the most suicidal little fluffy things. I've been driving to do early-morning runs, and I frequently come across rabbits in the roads just before dawn. They sit there as I approach. I move over to pass them, and they either dart to the safe verge, or straight towards my new direction. I then move back to the proper line, and as often as not they change direction and *crunch* - there's one less bunny.

    I don't like it happening, but it's hard to know what to do without going down roads at twenty miles per hour.

    I've been doing a few runs in Cambridge, and I've seen four urban foxes in two runs. They're utterly unafraid of humans.

    I have a theory about why magpies are so prevalent. They are incredibly adept at scavenging roadkill. Unlike the behaviour of the rabbits you're encountering, magpies don't panic when a car approaches and they make good decisions (i.e. they hop off the road rather than trying to fly away like dopey wood pigeons).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,330
    Putin expels BBC correspondent of two decades for committing journalism.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58395121
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,605
    Not out of the woods by a long chalk:

    There was a daily positivity rate of 14.9% today, which is the highest of this summer wave, and also the third highest which we've ever reported in a day.

    https://twitter.com/TravellingTabby/status/1432705887676911620

    Over 6,000 cases.....
  • AslanAslan Posts: 596
    Nigelb said:

    Putin expels BBC correspondent of two decades for committing journalism.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58395121

    Putin, Xi and all these other dictators are weak. They can't handle people saying critical things about them, because they know their whole governmental systems are vulnerable to truth.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,238
    Labour's conference looks like it is going to be fun and Mark Drakeford goes completely off script but then we always knew he was a Corbynista

    https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https://order-order.com/2021/08/31/labour-party-denying-conference-platform-to-its-far-left-youth-wing/&text=Labour’s Commie Conference Crisis&via=guidofawkes
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 24,527
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is not NATO that is the problem, NATO removed the Taliban and Al Qaeda from Afghanistan after 9/11 killed thousands in NYC, including 67 Britons. It is the Biden and Harris administration that has abandoned Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. It is also Biden and Trump who have weakened their commitment to NATO in both Europe and Afghanistan. It is the Biden and Harris administration and the Democrats who control Congress who will be judged on this at next year's midterms and the 2024 presidential election.

    Completely wrong.

    NATO subdued the Taliban, or rather made them go back to their homes and store their AKs after 9/11.

    NATO then, lead by the US, turned its attention to Iraq.

    And hence allowed the Taliban to manifest themselves once again.

    And when NATO went back into Afghan in 2006 the result was what we have seen over the past few weeks.
    The US withdrew most of its troops from Iraq in 2011, the Taliban did not regain Kabul until this summer.

    Even if there had been no Iraq invasion at all if the US was not prepared to commit to keep troops in Afghanistan permanently as it has in S Korea and Germany, then eventually the Taliban would regain power and jihadi militants would return
    Bingo. But you are blaming Biden and Trump particularly Biden. You are wrong. The Taliban began the takeover process over 15 years ago.
    It's the comparison of Afghanistan with Germany / S Korea which is rather sillier.
    No it isn't. The US had troops in Germany to keep out Russia, in S Korea to keep out N Korea and in Afghanistan to keep out the Taliban and AQ and other jihadi militants
    OK last chance. HYUFD your starter for 10. What is the difference between the US troops in Germany, Sth Korea and Afghanistan?

    No conferring.
    None, they are all there or were there to preserve western values and freedom and protect our national security
    LOL dear god man.

    Okay here's your clue: in only ONE of those places were/are the US troops combatants. Does that help bring it all to life for you and the differences between those examples?
    Wrong, US troops were combatants in South Korea when North Korea invaded and stayed to keep them out.

    US troops were also combatants in Germany to remove the Nazis then stayed to keep the Soviets advancing into West Germany from East Germany
    Generally not in combat against the inhabitants of the country, though.

    The closer comparison, which you are avoiding either our of sheer stubbornness or ignorance, is Vietnam.
    Vietnam was closer to Korea than Afghanistan ie North Vietnam was only able to capure South Vietnam once the US withdrew troops.

    However the same principle applies, if US troops were still in South Vietnam it would probably be much like South Korea is today
    North Vietnamese troops had much more 'on the ground' support from the South Vietnamese people, AIUI, than S. Koreans gave to the N. Koreans.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 25,872
    tlg86 said:

    On rabbits (literally):

    They really are the most suicidal little fluffy things. I've been driving to do early-morning runs, and I frequently come across rabbits in the roads just before dawn. They sit there as I approach. I move over to pass them, and they either dart to the safe verge, or straight towards my new direction. I then move back to the proper line, and as often as not they change direction and *crunch* - there's one less bunny.

    I don't like it happening, but it's hard to know what to do without going down roads at twenty miles per hour.

    I've been doing a few runs in Cambridge, and I've seen four urban foxes in two runs. They're utterly unafraid of humans.

    I have a theory about why magpies are so prevalent. They are incredibly adept at scavenging roadkill. Unlike the behaviour of the rabbits you're encountering, magpies don't panic when a car approaches and they make good decisions (i.e. they hop off the road rather than trying to fly away like dopey wood pigeons).
    I hadn't actually thought of that, but I think it matches the behaviour I see. Although I can't recall hitting the dopey wood pigeons, either.

    The oddest one I've ever had was driving along a country road on the Fens, with a hedge on the right. A flock of small birds flew over the hedge and into the side of my car. There must have been dozens; most passed in front and behind me, at windscreen level. When I stopped, six were dead or dazed on the ground.
  • Labour's conference looks like it is going to be fun and Mark Drakeford goes completely off script but then we always knew he was a Corbynista

    https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https://order-order.com/2021/08/31/labour-party-denying-conference-platform-to-its-far-left-youth-wing/&text=Labour’s Commie Conference Crisis&via=guidofawkes

    Bizarre way to post a link
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 8,737
    Carnyx said:

    CD13 said:

    We kept pet rabbits when I was a child. We ate them too.

    They were just as delicious when you knew their names.

    Oddly enough, guinea pigs don't seem to have incurred the same fate in the UK (in marked contrast to their native continent).
    It's a Jared Diamond point that South America is short of useful native mammals (both food and draft) which is why they have to fanny about with llamas and guinea pigs and stuff.

    Fun fact: Primates (including us), guinea pigs and new world fruit bats are the only mammals which can't synthesize their own vitamin C. Knowing that feels like the basis for a special relationship, which makes eating them seem wrong.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 4,261

    tlg86 said:

    On rabbits (literally):

    They really are the most suicidal little fluffy things. I've been driving to do early-morning runs, and I frequently come across rabbits in the roads just before dawn. They sit there as I approach. I move over to pass them, and they either dart to the safe verge, or straight towards my new direction. I then move back to the proper line, and as often as not they change direction and *crunch* - there's one less bunny.

    I don't like it happening, but it's hard to know what to do without going down roads at twenty miles per hour.

    I've been doing a few runs in Cambridge, and I've seen four urban foxes in two runs. They're utterly unafraid of humans.

    I have a theory about why magpies are so prevalent. They are incredibly adept at scavenging roadkill. Unlike the behaviour of the rabbits you're encountering, magpies don't panic when a car approaches and they make good decisions (i.e. they hop off the road rather than trying to fly away like dopey wood pigeons).
    I hadn't actually thought of that, but I think it matches the behaviour I see. Although I can't recall hitting the dopey wood pigeons, either.

    The oddest one I've ever had was driving along a country road on the Fens, with a hedge on the right. A flock of small birds flew over the hedge and into the side of my car. There must have been dozens; most passed in front and behind me, at windscreen level. When I stopped, six were dead or dazed on the ground.
    I have heard a different theory about mapies:
    Mao declared the sparrow 'uncommunistic' and ordered that sparrows be killed. But there was some vagary about the interpretation of the order, and it was thought safest to kill all small brown birds, just to be on the safe side. Magpies thrived, because they were obviously not sparrows.
    File under 'possibly'.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,149
    It's weird how, given how neither the Taliban nor Jihadis were in Afghanistan due to the presence of Us troops, that the US was bombing ISIS positions in Afghanistan to help the Taliban

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/22/taliban-isis-drones-afghanistan/
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,238
    edited August 31

    Labour's conference looks like it is going to be fun and Mark Drakeford goes completely off script but then we always knew he was a Corbynista

    https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https://order-order.com/2021/08/31/labour-party-denying-conference-platform-to-its-far-left-youth-wing/&text=Labour’s Commie Conference Crisis&via=guidofawkes

    Bizarre way to post a link
    I know but then I am not very tech savvy but the content of that tweet demonstrates that Mark Drakeford is very much a supporter of Corbyn

    From the tweet

    Labour’s conference may still be a month off, though Sir Keir is already facing headaches on multiple fronts. Young Labour chair Jess Barnard has published a lengthy Twitter thread bemoaning the party’s efforts to muzzle its youth wing and distance itself from its far-left politics. This is, of course, the same Young Labour that expressed ‘solidarity’ with the Cuban government, saying it fully supports “an end the illegal blockade of Cuba and stands in solidarity with Cubans against US imperialism.” Can you imagine why Starmer way want to put some distance between himself and the Labour youth wing?

    Writing this afternoon, Barnard claims to have heard “nothing from Keir Starmer or the leaders [sic] office since being elected almost a year ago”, and that following the cancellation of their own YL conference, Labour’s General Secretary David Evans has now reneged on his promise to “provide YL with more resources at national conference [in Brighton] to make up for it.” Apparently the party just doesn’t have the time to run all those due diligence checks on its young socialists…

    Young Labour aren’t the only ones making bad conference headlines; Labour’s elected leader in Wales, Mark Drakeford, has shocked political rivals by agreeing to appear alongside independent MP Jeremy Corbyn and recently expelled Ken Loach at a fringe event. Drakeford, fresh off bungling Wales’ response to the Covid crisis, will appear at The World Transformed fringe tent. Wales Against Antisemitism has expressed rage at his appearance, asking why the First Minister thinks it “appropriate to speak at this event, given the antisemitism controversies involving many of his fellow speakers?” – a question Welsh Conservative Leader is also levelling at Drakeford:

    “This demonstrates a huge lack of judgment and sensitivity on the First Minister’s part – how will Wales’ Jewish community feel in seeing him cosy up with those who have shown disregard to the very real presence of the world’s oldest form of racism in the Labour Party?

    Drakeford’s actions begs the question of why he thinks it is appropriate to make friends with those Sir Keir Starmer has said has no place in the Party.”

    Recently the left was wetting themself with excitement over Corbyn’s forthcoming appearance at Labour conference, claiming “Centrists are fuming over his attendance.” Guido had to point out that the absolute boy’s in fact appearing in a field… ten minutes down the road.



  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,528
    edited August 31

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,303
    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Well, they do. Like the rest of us.

    It's just that they're very short lives.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,481
    Poirot is on ITV3 at the moment.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,648
    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    All the time (well, in the spring), in the field behind the house. Yum.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 14,825
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is not NATO that is the problem, NATO removed the Taliban and Al Qaeda from Afghanistan after 9/11 killed thousands in NYC, including 67 Britons. It is the Biden and Harris administration that has abandoned Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. It is also Biden and Trump who have weakened their commitment to NATO in both Europe and Afghanistan. It is the Biden and Harris administration and the Democrats who control Congress who will be judged on this at next year's midterms and the 2024 presidential election.

    Completely wrong.

    NATO subdued the Taliban, or rather made them go back to their homes and store their AKs after 9/11.

    NATO then, lead by the US, turned its attention to Iraq.

    And hence allowed the Taliban to manifest themselves once again.

    And when NATO went back into Afghan in 2006 the result was what we have seen over the past few weeks.
    The US withdrew most of its troops from Iraq in 2011, the Taliban did not regain Kabul until this summer.

    Even if there had been no Iraq invasion at all if the US was not prepared to commit to keep troops in Afghanistan permanently as it has in S Korea and Germany, then eventually the Taliban would regain power and jihadi militants would return
    Bingo. But you are blaming Biden and Trump particularly Biden. You are wrong. The Taliban began the takeover process over 15 years ago.
    It's the comparison of Afghanistan with Germany / S Korea which is rather sillier.
    No it isn't. The US had troops in Germany to keep out Russia, in S Korea to keep out N Korea and in Afghanistan to keep out the Taliban and AQ and other jihadi militants
    OK last chance. HYUFD your starter for 10. What is the difference between the US troops in Germany, Sth Korea and Afghanistan?

    No conferring.
    None, they are all there or were there to preserve western values and freedom and protect our national security
    LOL dear god man.

    Okay here's your clue: in only ONE of those places were/are the US troops combatants. Does that help bring it all to life for you and the differences between those examples?
    Wrong, US troops were combatants in South Korea when North Korea invaded and stayed to keep them out.

    US troops were also combatants in Germany to remove the Nazis then stayed to keep the Soviets advancing into West Germany from East Germany
    Gah. US troops are now combatants in Afghan and hence they are the direct target of the Taliban. This is not the case in South Korea or Germany or indeed the UK.

    If US troops were to stay in Afghan then the Taliban would have resumed killing them and Biden would have had either to pull out completely or ramp up the war to protect them.

    But look, if you can't see this, then that's fine. You wouldn't be the only one.
    It's a little remembered fact that the US general who defeated the North Koreans - Matt Ridgway - strongly opposed US involvement in Vietnam for similar reasons.
    One of the very best of the WWII generation.
    Yes indeed. But I suppose there are publics to satisfy both one way and the other. We are a fickle, capricious lot.

    And I will leave you to "discuss" with HYUFD about all this as I find that what strength I had has now evaporated.
    Wearying of a lengthy struggle against a fanatical enemy convinced of their own rectitude who engages in persistent low level sniping and a refusal to accept defeat in the face of all facts and logic. Despite being armed with little more than religious zeal.
    The military eventually shrugs and wearily trudges from the battlefield asking was any of that really worth it?
    There may be an analogy there.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 29,074
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Well, they do. Like the rest of us.

    It's just that they're very short lives.
    And they wouldn't exist at all if we weren't going to eat them.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 24,527
    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Pour on the mint sauce!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,481
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is not NATO that is the problem, NATO removed the Taliban and Al Qaeda from Afghanistan after 9/11 killed thousands in NYC, including 67 Britons. It is the Biden and Harris administration that has abandoned Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. It is also Biden and Trump who have weakened their commitment to NATO in both Europe and Afghanistan. It is the Biden and Harris administration and the Democrats who control Congress who will be judged on this at next year's midterms and the 2024 presidential election.

    Completely wrong.

    NATO subdued the Taliban, or rather made them go back to their homes and store their AKs after 9/11.

    NATO then, lead by the US, turned its attention to Iraq.

    And hence allowed the Taliban to manifest themselves once again.

    And when NATO went back into Afghan in 2006 the result was what we have seen over the past few weeks.
    The US withdrew most of its troops from Iraq in 2011, the Taliban did not regain Kabul until this summer.

    Even if there had been no Iraq invasion at all if the US was not prepared to commit to keep troops in Afghanistan permanently as it has in S Korea and Germany, then eventually the Taliban would regain power and jihadi militants would return
    Bingo. But you are blaming Biden and Trump particularly Biden. You are wrong. The Taliban began the takeover process over 15 years ago.
    It's the comparison of Afghanistan with Germany / S Korea which is rather sillier.
    No it isn't. The US had troops in Germany to keep out Russia, in S Korea to keep out N Korea and in Afghanistan to keep out the Taliban and AQ and other jihadi militants
    OK last chance. HYUFD your starter for 10. What is the difference between the US troops in Germany, Sth Korea and Afghanistan?

    No conferring.
    None, they are all there or were there to preserve western values and freedom and protect our national security
    LOL dear god man.

    Okay here's your clue: in only ONE of those places were/are the US troops combatants. Does that help bring it all to life for you and the differences between those examples?
    Wrong, US troops were combatants in South Korea when North Korea invaded and stayed to keep them out.

    US troops were also combatants in Germany to remove the Nazis then stayed to keep the Soviets advancing into West Germany from East Germany
    Life for US troops in Afghanistan after 20 years was a lot spicier than life was in either South Korea or Germany after 20 years. But I think you are correct with your broad point. Afghanistan was a multi generational project whereas the rebuilding of civil society in the others were complete within two decades.

    With about half the country now under the age of 20, it actually may not have taken as long as some feared for the changes in society to have been stickier. Another 10-20 years and we may have had a relatively stable country at the core, with unstable border regions thanks to external actors.
    I'll have whatever you're drinking. Must be pretty strong stuff. 😊
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,303

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Pour on the mint sauce!
    I prefer mint jelly, if I'm honest.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,648
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    CD13 said:

    We kept pet rabbits when I was a child. We ate them too.

    They were just as delicious when you knew their names.

    Oddly enough, guinea pigs don't seem to have incurred the same fate in the UK (in marked contrast to their native continent).
    It's a Jared Diamond point that South America is short of useful native mammals (both food and draft) which is why they have to fanny about with llamas and guinea pigs and stuff.

    Fun fact: Primates (including us), guinea pigs and new world fruit bats are the only mammals which can't synthesize their own vitamin C. Knowing that feels like the basis for a special relationship, which makes eating them seem wrong.
    IIRC that is why the native peoples of the circumarctic lands can survive on a meat-only diet - there is just enough VitC in the fresh meat (not sure which bits). And they don't have to rely on cavies.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 8,737
    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Like that heartwarming meme of putting orphan newborns in the warming oven of the farmhouse Aga, ignoring the fact that their destiny is the roasting oven above and to the right.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,241

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is not NATO that is the problem, NATO removed the Taliban and Al Qaeda from Afghanistan after 9/11 killed thousands in NYC, including 67 Britons. It is the Biden and Harris administration that has abandoned Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. It is also Biden and Trump who have weakened their commitment to NATO in both Europe and Afghanistan. It is the Biden and Harris administration and the Democrats who control Congress who will be judged on this at next year's midterms and the 2024 presidential election.

    Completely wrong.

    NATO subdued the Taliban, or rather made them go back to their homes and store their AKs after 9/11.

    NATO then, lead by the US, turned its attention to Iraq.

    And hence allowed the Taliban to manifest themselves once again.

    And when NATO went back into Afghan in 2006 the result was what we have seen over the past few weeks.
    The US withdrew most of its troops from Iraq in 2011, the Taliban did not regain Kabul until this summer.

    Even if there had been no Iraq invasion at all if the US was not prepared to commit to keep troops in Afghanistan permanently as it has in S Korea and Germany, then eventually the Taliban would regain power and jihadi militants would return
    Bingo. But you are blaming Biden and Trump particularly Biden. You are wrong. The Taliban began the takeover process over 15 years ago.
    It's the comparison of Afghanistan with Germany / S Korea which is rather sillier.
    No it isn't. The US had troops in Germany to keep out Russia, in S Korea to keep out N Korea and in Afghanistan to keep out the Taliban and AQ and other jihadi militants
    OK last chance. HYUFD your starter for 10. What is the difference between the US troops in Germany, Sth Korea and Afghanistan?

    No conferring.
    None, they are all there or were there to preserve western values and freedom and protect our national security
    LOL dear god man.

    Okay here's your clue: in only ONE of those places were/are the US troops combatants. Does that help bring it all to life for you and the differences between those examples?
    Wrong, US troops were combatants in South Korea when North Korea invaded and stayed to keep them out.

    US troops were also combatants in Germany to remove the Nazis then stayed to keep the Soviets advancing into West Germany from East Germany
    Life for US troops in Afghanistan after 20 years was a lot spicier than life was in either South Korea or Germany after 20 years. But I think you are correct with your broad point. Afghanistan was a multi generational project whereas the rebuilding of civil society in the others were complete within two decades.

    With about half the country now under the age of 20, it actually may not have taken as long as some feared for the changes in society to have been stickier. Another 10-20 years and we may have had a relatively stable country at the core, with unstable border regions thanks to external actors.
    Hmmm: the areas with the higher birth rates were the rural ones, where the remit of the central government was a lot weaker.

    All about how many babies you have, innit?

    Maybe the West should adopt policies that encourage us to breed like rabbits.
    Very good - you managed to bring the two "threads" together in a single comment :smile:

    The French (very sensibly) have such policies. Have a baby, and get to add their tax thresholds to your own. It means that someone who earns €70,000 per year is actually better off after having a child than they were before. It subsidies people with jobs having children, but not those who do not.
    In the UK we make childcare as expensive as f**k and then have to import adult workers in their 20s to plug the demographic holes.

    In effect, we're contracting out childrearing to 3rd countries, and creating all sorts of social and cultural challenges in the UK as a result.
    Social and cultural challenges? Brexit is done, all the nannies have gone home.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,648

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is not NATO that is the problem, NATO removed the Taliban and Al Qaeda from Afghanistan after 9/11 killed thousands in NYC, including 67 Britons. It is the Biden and Harris administration that has abandoned Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. It is also Biden and Trump who have weakened their commitment to NATO in both Europe and Afghanistan. It is the Biden and Harris administration and the Democrats who control Congress who will be judged on this at next year's midterms and the 2024 presidential election.

    Completely wrong.

    NATO subdued the Taliban, or rather made them go back to their homes and store their AKs after 9/11.

    NATO then, lead by the US, turned its attention to Iraq.

    And hence allowed the Taliban to manifest themselves once again.

    And when NATO went back into Afghan in 2006 the result was what we have seen over the past few weeks.
    The US withdrew most of its troops from Iraq in 2011, the Taliban did not regain Kabul until this summer.

    Even if there had been no Iraq invasion at all if the US was not prepared to commit to keep troops in Afghanistan permanently as it has in S Korea and Germany, then eventually the Taliban would regain power and jihadi militants would return
    Bingo. But you are blaming Biden and Trump particularly Biden. You are wrong. The Taliban began the takeover process over 15 years ago.
    It's the comparison of Afghanistan with Germany / S Korea which is rather sillier.
    No it isn't. The US had troops in Germany to keep out Russia, in S Korea to keep out N Korea and in Afghanistan to keep out the Taliban and AQ and other jihadi militants
    OK last chance. HYUFD your starter for 10. What is the difference between the US troops in Germany, Sth Korea and Afghanistan?

    No conferring.
    None, they are all there or were there to preserve western values and freedom and protect our national security
    LOL dear god man.

    Okay here's your clue: in only ONE of those places were/are the US troops combatants. Does that help bring it all to life for you and the differences between those examples?
    Wrong, US troops were combatants in South Korea when North Korea invaded and stayed to keep them out.

    US troops were also combatants in Germany to remove the Nazis then stayed to keep the Soviets advancing into West Germany from East Germany
    Life for US troops in Afghanistan after 20 years was a lot spicier than life was in either South Korea or Germany after 20 years. But I think you are correct with your broad point. Afghanistan was a multi generational project whereas the rebuilding of civil society in the others were complete within two decades.

    With about half the country now under the age of 20, it actually may not have taken as long as some feared for the changes in society to have been stickier. Another 10-20 years and we may have had a relatively stable country at the core, with unstable border regions thanks to external actors.
    Hmmm: the areas with the higher birth rates were the rural ones, where the remit of the central government was a lot weaker.

    All about how many babies you have, innit?

    Maybe the West should adopt policies that encourage us to breed like rabbits.
    Very good - you managed to bring the two "threads" together in a single comment :smile:

    The French (very sensibly) have such policies. Have a baby, and get to add their tax thresholds to your own. It means that someone who earns €70,000 per year is actually better off after having a child than they were before. It subsidies people with jobs having children, but not those who do not.
    In the UK we make childcare as expensive as f**k and then have to import adult workers in their 20s to plug the demographic holes.

    In effect, we're contracting out childrearing to 3rd countries, and creating all sorts of social and cultural challenges in the UK as a result.
    Be a hell of a flux of commentary if the PM brought in a French-style policy ...
  • Mark Drakeford, "bungled" COVID response? The best nation in the UK, I can't wait to hear what Guido thinks of BoJo
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,303
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Like that heartwarming meme of putting orphan newborns in the warming oven of the farmhouse Aga, ignoring the fact that their destiny is the roasting oven above and to the right.
    I misread that as 'newborn orphans.'

    I was a bit startled as Tories aren't usually so direct about their culinary habits.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 8,737
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    CD13 said:

    We kept pet rabbits when I was a child. We ate them too.

    They were just as delicious when you knew their names.

    Oddly enough, guinea pigs don't seem to have incurred the same fate in the UK (in marked contrast to their native continent).
    It's a Jared Diamond point that South America is short of useful native mammals (both food and draft) which is why they have to fanny about with llamas and guinea pigs and stuff.

    Fun fact: Primates (including us), guinea pigs and new world fruit bats are the only mammals which can't synthesize their own vitamin C. Knowing that feels like the basis for a special relationship, which makes eating them seem wrong.
    IIRC that is why the native peoples of the circumarctic lands can survive on a meat-only diet - there is just enough VitC in the fresh meat (not sure which bits). And they don't have to rely on cavies.
    Which is why Amundsen, eating seal, avoided scurvy while Scott, living out of tins, didn't.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 29,622
    edited August 31

    Labour's conference looks like it is going to be fun and Mark Drakeford goes completely off script but then we always knew he was a Corbynista

    https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https://order-order.com/2021/08/31/labour-party-denying-conference-platform-to-its-far-left-youth-wing/&text=Labour’s Commie Conference Crisis&via=guidofawkes

    Bizarre way to post a link
    I know but then I am not very tech savvy but the content of that tweet demonstrates that Mark Drakeford is very much a supporter of Corbyn

    From the tweet

    Labour’s conference may still be a month off, though Sir Keir is already facing headaches on multiple fronts. Young Labour chair Jess Barnard has published a lengthy Twitter thread bemoaning the party’s efforts to muzzle its youth wing and distance itself from its far-left politics. This is, of course, the same Young Labour that expressed ‘solidarity’ with the Cuban government, saying it fully supports “an end the illegal blockade of Cuba and stands in solidarity with Cubans against US imperialism.” Can you imagine why Starmer way want to put some distance between himself and the Labour youth wing?

    Writing this afternoon, Barnard claims to have heard “nothing from Keir Starmer or the leaders [sic] office since being elected almost a year ago”, and that following the cancellation of their own YL conference, Labour’s General Secretary David Evans has now reneged on his promise to “provide YL with more resources at national conference [in Brighton] to make up for it.” Apparently the party just doesn’t have the time to run all those due diligence checks on its young socialists…

    Young Labour aren’t the only ones making bad conference headlines; Labour’s elected leader in Wales, Mark Drakeford, has shocked political rivals by agreeing to appear alongside independent MP Jeremy Corbyn and recently expelled Ken Loach at a fringe event. Drakeford, fresh off bungling Wales’ response to the Covid crisis, will appear at The World Transformed fringe tent. Wales Against Antisemitism has expressed rage at his appearance, asking why the First Minister thinks it “appropriate to speak at this event, given the antisemitism controversies involving many of his fellow speakers?” – a question Welsh Conservative Leader is also levelling at Drakeford:

    “This demonstrates a huge lack of judgment and sensitivity on the First Minister’s part – how will Wales’ Jewish community feel in seeing him cosy up with those who have shown disregard to the very real presence of the world’s oldest form of racism in the Labour Party?

    Drakeford’s actions begs the question of why he thinks it is appropriate to make friends with those Sir Keir Starmer has said has no place in the Party.”

    Recently the left was wetting themself with excitement over Corbyn’s forthcoming appearance at Labour conference, claiming “Centrists are fuming over his attendance.” Guido had to point out that the absolute boy’s in fact appearing in a field… ten minutes down the road.



    I'd bet the world's oldest form of racism was directed at Neanderthals. Poor sods still on the receiving end even though extinct.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,858
    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Yes.

    I've never had them as a pet personally though, so all I have to say about that is they're best served with mint sauce.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,481
    edited August 31

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    YoungTurk said:

    Which is more degrading - criminally starting a war by invading a foreign country, losing it, and then withdrawing, or criminally invading a foreign country on the instructions of a third country, with the same result?

    The issue shouldn't be what this or that former public schoolboy British army veteran is doing (playing up the jut-jawed playing-field meme in time of defeat is so predictable); it should be why on earth Britain should remain a member of NATO or any other kind of military ally of the US, followed by who should go to jail, followed by how large the reparations payments should be.

    Funny how attention can be directed. Jimmy Savile abuses a large number of children over decades? Make it an issue about those favourite Tory targets (at least until recently in the case of the first one) the NHS and the BBC. NATO gets humiliated in its biggest failure ever? Whatever you do, don't mention NATO.

    It is not NATO that is the problem, NATO removed the Taliban and Al Qaeda from Afghanistan after 9/11 killed thousands in NYC, including 67 Britons. It is the Biden and Harris administration that has abandoned Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. It is also Biden and Trump who have weakened their commitment to NATO in both Europe and Afghanistan. It is the Biden and Harris administration and the Democrats who control Congress who will be judged on this at next year's midterms and the 2024 presidential election.

    You have therefore got it completely the wrong way around, it is now the US on whom western Europe has relied for its defence that is retreating into isolationism. It is France and the UK, led by Macron and Boris, who are having to fill in the gap, leading intervention in Africa against jihadi militants for example absent US commitment. It is also western Europe which will have to step up its defence spending to the 2% or more of gdp we and the French provide if NATO is going to be able to successfully contain Putin's ambitions in Eastern Europe.

    Taiwan may well have to get nuclear weapons as well if it is to ensure its own defence against Chinese advances given the Biden administration clearly will not lift a finger to defend it
    Us and NATO ought to be considered without prejudgment though. It's a changed world (cf the WW2 settlement and the cold war) and we are now more of a solo player post Brexit.
    On military matters at least the UK and French relationship is stronger than ever, Brexit has not changed that at all.

    Boris and Macron will now be driving NATO for the foreseeable future as the Biden led US retreats into itself
    Johnson and Macron aren't driving shit and have zero strategic autonomy inside NATO. Macron has worked this out, hence his enthusiasm for L'Europe de la défense. Johnson either has not worked it or, more likely, doesn't give a fuck and just prefers to dribble about Global Britain.
    Yes they are, Johnson and Macron will be driving NATO containment of Putin and now taking the lead on jihadis in areas like Africa etc. The UK and France are by far the biggest military powers in NATO after the USA and in the US absence they will take the lead. With William Hague now a candidate to be next NATO Secretary General our influence within NATO would only increase.

    Proposals for an EU rapid response force have still not got off the ground, in part because it would be very reliant on the French military. Absent significant US presence and commitment, which will become less evident under Biden, western European defence relies on the UK as well as France and so cannot be done via the EU alone, it needs NATO too
    It’s all relative HY. All I see is the West as a whole vacating the global stage, to greater or lesser effect. The result being that the values and strength of Western civilisation are being further undermined. It’s a pickle for sure. I’m not sure what’s to be done about it but misplaced trust in Johnson and Macron isn’t it.
    We're vacating ourselves without and attacking ourselves within.

    It doesn't take too much of a dive into history to realise the fate of civilisations that start to do that.
    Looking with a long lens, I expect the political future of humanity is some model of fascism / mutualism. We’re on the cusp of becoming properly space faring and who knows, may have invented a god in the box in the coming decades too, which will take away demand for human capital. And that’s without healthcare advances sufficient to enable ultra life spans. Democracy and economics as we’ve known them are likely to be the casualties of these technological revolutions.

    Quite a messy period ahead for homosapiens. Should our friends in the skies wish to give some advice it would be most appreciated.
    Authoritarianism is certainly far more common throughout human history than democracy.

    It may be we discover that our democratic age was underpinned entirely by our economic strength and cultural confidence, both of which are now waning.
    I see authoritarianism rising everywhere in this country. There's more conformism and intolerance compared to 20 or 30 years ago. People try to excuse themselves for it by uttering politically correct platitudes like robots.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,648
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Like that heartwarming meme of putting orphan newborns in the warming oven of the farmhouse Aga, ignoring the fact that their destiny is the roasting oven above and to the right.
    Mm, reminds me there are some lamb chops in the fridge (would be having them for dinner if Mrs C hadn't scored some monkfish which will be made into curry).
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 29,074
    They're just trolling now, aren't they?

    Extinction Rebellion are occupying the headquarters of WWF to protest against their conservation activities

    https://twitter.com/Jess_Shankleman/status/1432640939818893313
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,919
    edited August 31
    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Sure have. But it's their fault for being the delicious little tykes that they are.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,858

    Mark Drakeford, "bungled" COVID response? The best nation in the UK, I can't wait to hear what Guido thinks of BoJo

    Boris had one of the best responses on the entire planet in sourcing vaccines.

    Something Drakeford, Sturgeon and the rest of the UK should be very grateful for.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,238
    As a child living in Berwick on Tweed my father visited farms throughout Northumberland for work and we regularly had rabbit stew

    When myxomatosis appeared in 1953 eating rabbit stopped immediately, and I will not describe how the poor animals suffered but suffice to say if we saw one on the road we would drive over it to put it out of its misery

    It was just horrible and I can see those images to this day
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 89,223
    Alistair said:

    It's weird how, given how neither the Taliban nor Jihadis were in Afghanistan due to the presence of Us troops, that the US was bombing ISIS positions in Afghanistan to help the Taliban

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/22/taliban-isis-drones-afghanistan/

    The fact the US and Taliban had a common enemy in ISIS as well as each other does not mean a great deal, especially as now the US has withdrawn it will not have much of a presence to successfully launch and identify the correct ISIS targets in Afghanistan going forward
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 8,737
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Like that heartwarming meme of putting orphan newborns in the warming oven of the farmhouse Aga, ignoring the fact that their destiny is the roasting oven above and to the right.
    Mm, reminds me there are some lamb chops in the fridge (would be having them for dinner if Mrs C hadn't scored some monkfish which will be made into curry).
    I'm getting a sense of where the Carn- element of your name comes from.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,303

    They're just trolling now, aren't they?

    Extinction Rebellion are occupying the headquarters of WWF to protest against their conservation activities

    https://twitter.com/Jess_Shankleman/status/1432640939818893313

    'Now?' They always were!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,648
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Like that heartwarming meme of putting orphan newborns in the warming oven of the farmhouse Aga, ignoring the fact that their destiny is the roasting oven above and to the right.
    Mm, reminds me there are some lamb chops in the fridge (would be having them for dinner if Mrs C hadn't scored some monkfish which will be made into curry).
    I'm getting a sense of where the Carn- element of your name comes from.
    That's folk etymology in the making - actually a different root:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnyx
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,858

    They're just trolling now, aren't they?

    Extinction Rebellion are occupying the headquarters of WWF to protest against their conservation activities

    https://twitter.com/Jess_Shankleman/status/1432640939818893313

    The group that protested against electrified public transport, is now protesting against conservation? 🤔
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,239

    They're just trolling now, aren't they?

    Extinction Rebellion are occupying the headquarters of WWF to protest against their conservation activities

    https://twitter.com/Jess_Shankleman/status/1432640939818893313

    I'm about to go into Woking. I don't care about the WWF HQ, but I do care about the Bedsers...

    https://twitter.com/WokingXr/status/1432703478342815758/photo/4
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 24,527

    Labour's conference looks like it is going to be fun and Mark Drakeford goes completely off script but then we always knew he was a Corbynista

    https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https://order-order.com/2021/08/31/labour-party-denying-conference-platform-to-its-far-left-youth-wing/&text=Labour’s Commie Conference Crisis&via=guidofawkes

    Bizarre way to post a link
    I know but then I am not very tech savvy but the content of that tweet demonstrates that Mark Drakeford is very much a supporter of Corbyn

    From the tweet

    Labour’s conference may still be a month off, though Sir Keir is already facing headaches on multiple fronts. Young Labour chair Jess Barnard has published a lengthy Twitter thread bemoaning the party’s efforts to muzzle its youth wing and distance itself from its far-left politics. This is, of course, the same Young Labour that expressed ‘solidarity’ with the Cuban government, saying it fully supports “an end the illegal blockade of Cuba and stands in solidarity with Cubans against US imperialism.” Can you imagine why Starmer way want to put some distance between himself and the Labour youth wing?

    Writing this afternoon, Barnard claims to have heard “nothing from Keir Starmer or the leaders [sic] office since being elected almost a year ago”, and that following the cancellation of their own YL conference, Labour’s General Secretary David Evans has now reneged on his promise to “provide YL with more resources at national conference [in Brighton] to make up for it.” Apparently the party just doesn’t have the time to run all those due diligence checks on its young socialists…

    Young Labour aren’t the only ones making bad conference headlines; Labour’s elected leader in Wales, Mark Drakeford, has shocked political rivals by agreeing to appear alongside independent MP Jeremy Corbyn and recently expelled Ken Loach at a fringe event. Drakeford, fresh off bungling Wales’ response to the Covid crisis, will appear at The World Transformed fringe tent. Wales Against Antisemitism has expressed rage at his appearance, asking why the First Minister thinks it “appropriate to speak at this event, given the antisemitism controversies involving many of his fellow speakers?” – a question Welsh Conservative Leader is also levelling at Drakeford:

    “This demonstrates a huge lack of judgment and sensitivity on the First Minister’s part – how will Wales’ Jewish community feel in seeing him cosy up with those who have shown disregard to the very real presence of the world’s oldest form of racism in the Labour Party?

    Drakeford’s actions begs the question of why he thinks it is appropriate to make friends with those Sir Keir Starmer has said has no place in the Party.”

    Recently the left was wetting themself with excitement over Corbyn’s forthcoming appearance at Labour conference, claiming “Centrists are fuming over his attendance.” Guido had to point out that the absolute boy’s in fact appearing in a field… ten minutes down the road.

    I seem to recall that the Labour Party has had 'problems' with it's youth wing ever since the days of the Labour League of Youth in the 50's.
    And the Young Liberals, especially when led by Peter Hain, were a feisty lot.
    The Young Conservatives, as I recall were either a marriage market or, often, to the Right of the National Front. Bro & sister-in-law, who met there were very critical of a fellow member 'who was only interested in politics'. Chap went on to become a junior minister.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,528

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Pour on the mint sauce!
    The barbarism on display on this post just takes the biscuit.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,648
    edited August 31

    As a child living in Berwick on Tweed my father visited farms throughout Northumberland for work and we regularly had rabbit stew

    When myxomatosis appeared in 1953 eating rabbit stopped immediately, and I will not describe how the poor animals suffered but suffice to say if we saw one on the road we would drive over it to put it out of its misery

    It was just horrible and I can see those images to this day

    My father would never eat rabbit after seeing, as a child, how diseased some of the ones he saw being shot were. This was before and in the early years of WW2. I won't give details as I don't want to put folk off their coniglio in agridolce.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,648
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Pour on the mint sauce!
    The barbarism on display on this post just takes the biscuit.
    It's either that or spruce plantations, mate.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,528
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Well, they do. Like the rest of us.

    It's just that they're very short lives.
    How would you like to be brutally attacked and end up in a korma?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 29,074
    Carnyx said:



    That's folk etymology in the making - actually a different root:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnyx

    Ah, it's all becoming clear now:

    "Their trumpets again are of a peculiar barbarian kind; they blow into them and produce a harsh sound which suits the tumult of war."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,303
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Well, they do. Like the rest of us.

    It's just that they're very short lives.
    How would you like to be brutally attacked and end up in a korma?
    A korma? How uncivilised.

    Nothing less than a tikka masala.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,528
    Andy_JS said:

    Poirot is on ITV3 at the moment.

    A repeat, I'm betting.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,648

    Carnyx said:



    That's folk etymology in the making - actually a different root:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnyx

    Ah, it's all becoming clear now:

    "Their trumpets again are of a peculiar barbarian kind; they blow into them and produce a harsh sound which suits the tumult of war."
    Nullius in verba:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auR-lJfzTeY
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,238
    Carnyx said:

    As a child living in Berwick on Tweed my father visited farms throughout Northumberland for work and we regularly had rabbit stew

    When myxomatosis appeared in 1953 eating rabbit stopped immediately, and I will not describe how the poor animals suffered but suffice to say if we saw one on the road we would drive over it to put it out of its misery

    It was just horrible and I can see those images to this day

    My father would never eat rabbit after seeing, as a child, how diseased some of the ones he saw being shot were. This was before and in the early years of WW2. I won't give details as I don't want to put folk off their coniglio in agridolce.
    Of course we were living in a farming community and eating rabbit was widespread before myxy
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 24,527
    edited August 31

    As a child living in Berwick on Tweed my father visited farms throughout Northumberland for work and we regularly had rabbit stew

    When myxomatosis appeared in 1953 eating rabbit stopped immediately, and I will not describe how the poor animals suffered but suffice to say if we saw one on the road we would drive over it to put it out of its misery

    It was just horrible and I can see those images to this day

    I did A level Zoology in the late 50's and our teacher always used myxomatosis as an example of how animals changed their behaviour to cope with challenges. As the disease progressed rabbits, for a while at least, tended to live much more above ground, as it was less easy for myxomatosis to spread.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,858
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Well, they do. Like the rest of us.

    It's just that they're very short lives.
    How would you like to be brutally attacked and end up in a korma?
    Once I'm dead its of little consequence to me where I end up.

    I'm glad I'm at the top of the food chain.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 29,622
    The Shrivster has written this just to laud the wonderful multi cultural melting pot of a society in which we live surely?


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,648

    Carnyx said:

    As a child living in Berwick on Tweed my father visited farms throughout Northumberland for work and we regularly had rabbit stew

    When myxomatosis appeared in 1953 eating rabbit stopped immediately, and I will not describe how the poor animals suffered but suffice to say if we saw one on the road we would drive over it to put it out of its misery

    It was just horrible and I can see those images to this day

    My father would never eat rabbit after seeing, as a child, how diseased some of the ones he saw being shot were. This was before and in the early years of WW2. I won't give details as I don't want to put folk off their coniglio in agridolce.
    Of course we were living in a farming community and eating rabbit was widespread before myxy
    That's right; my great-grandfather was a locomotive driver in a quarry out in the countryside so I can see how my father encountered that habit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,330
    .
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Like that heartwarming meme of putting orphan newborns in the warming oven of the farmhouse Aga, ignoring the fact that their destiny is the roasting oven above and to the right.
    I misread that as 'newborn orphans.'

    I was a bit startled as Tories aren't usually so direct about their culinary habits.
    Well Swift was, after all, of their circle.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,149
    Andy_JS said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    YoungTurk said:

    Which is more degrading - criminally starting a war by invading a foreign country, losing it, and then withdrawing, or criminally invading a foreign country on the instructions of a third country, with the same result?

    The issue shouldn't be what this or that former public schoolboy British army veteran is doing (playing up the jut-jawed playing-field meme in time of defeat is so predictable); it should be why on earth Britain should remain a member of NATO or any other kind of military ally of the US, followed by who should go to jail, followed by how large the reparations payments should be.

    Funny how attention can be directed. Jimmy Savile abuses a large number of children over decades? Make it an issue about those favourite Tory targets (at least until recently in the case of the first one) the NHS and the BBC. NATO gets humiliated in its biggest failure ever? Whatever you do, don't mention NATO.

    It is not NATO that is the problem, NATO removed the Taliban and Al Qaeda from Afghanistan after 9/11 killed thousands in NYC, including 67 Britons. It is the Biden and Harris administration that has abandoned Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. It is also Biden and Trump who have weakened their commitment to NATO in both Europe and Afghanistan. It is the Biden and Harris administration and the Democrats who control Congress who will be judged on this at next year's midterms and the 2024 presidential election.

    You have therefore got it completely the wrong way around, it is now the US on whom western Europe has relied for its defence that is retreating into isolationism. It is France and the UK, led by Macron and Boris, who are having to fill in the gap, leading intervention in Africa against jihadi militants for example absent US commitment. It is also western Europe which will have to step up its defence spending to the 2% or more of gdp we and the French provide if NATO is going to be able to successfully contain Putin's ambitions in Eastern Europe.

    Taiwan may well have to get nuclear weapons as well if it is to ensure its own defence against Chinese advances given the Biden administration clearly will not lift a finger to defend it
    Us and NATO ought to be considered without prejudgment though. It's a changed world (cf the WW2 settlement and the cold war) and we are now more of a solo player post Brexit.
    On military matters at least the UK and French relationship is stronger than ever, Brexit has not changed that at all.

    Boris and Macron will now be driving NATO for the foreseeable future as the Biden led US retreats into itself
    Johnson and Macron aren't driving shit and have zero strategic autonomy inside NATO. Macron has worked this out, hence his enthusiasm for L'Europe de la défense. Johnson either has not worked it or, more likely, doesn't give a fuck and just prefers to dribble about Global Britain.
    Yes they are, Johnson and Macron will be driving NATO containment of Putin and now taking the lead on jihadis in areas like Africa etc. The UK and France are by far the biggest military powers in NATO after the USA and in the US absence they will take the lead. With William Hague now a candidate to be next NATO Secretary General our influence within NATO would only increase.

    Proposals for an EU rapid response force have still not got off the ground, in part because it would be very reliant on the French military. Absent significant US presence and commitment, which will become less evident under Biden, western European defence relies on the UK as well as France and so cannot be done via the EU alone, it needs NATO too
    It’s all relative HY. All I see is the West as a whole vacating the global stage, to greater or lesser effect. The result being that the values and strength of Western civilisation are being further undermined. It’s a pickle for sure. I’m not sure what’s to be done about it but misplaced trust in Johnson and Macron isn’t it.
    We're vacating ourselves without and attacking ourselves within.

    It doesn't take too much of a dive into history to realise the fate of civilisations that start to do that.
    Looking with a long lens, I expect the political future of humanity is some model of fascism / mutualism. We’re on the cusp of becoming properly space faring and who knows, may have invented a god in the box in the coming decades too, which will take away demand for human capital. And that’s without healthcare advances sufficient to enable ultra life spans. Democracy and economics as we’ve known them are likely to be the casualties of these technological revolutions.

    Quite a messy period ahead for homosapiens. Should our friends in the skies wish to give some advice it would be most appreciated.
    Authoritarianism is certainly far more common throughout human history than democracy.

    It may be we discover that our democratic age was underpinned entirely by our economic strength and cultural confidence, both of which are now waning.
    I see authoritarianism rising everywhere in this country. There's more conformism and intolerance compared to 20 or 30 years ago. People try to excuse themselves for it by uttering politically correct platitudes like robots.
    Are you finding there are more people about who have views that disagree with yours?
  • NEW THREAD

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 24,527
    edited August 31

    Carnyx said:

    As a child living in Berwick on Tweed my father visited farms throughout Northumberland for work and we regularly had rabbit stew

    When myxomatosis appeared in 1953 eating rabbit stopped immediately, and I will not describe how the poor animals suffered but suffice to say if we saw one on the road we would drive over it to put it out of its misery

    It was just horrible and I can see those images to this day

    My father would never eat rabbit after seeing, as a child, how diseased some of the ones he saw being shot were. This was before and in the early years of WW2. I won't give details as I don't want to put folk off their coniglio in agridolce.
    Of course we were living in a farming community and eating rabbit was widespread before myxy
    There was a big open area, with poor grazing not far from us, when I was in my v. early teens. Used for rough shooting of rabbits, and, to the annoyance of the shooters, the rabbits could also be killed with stones fired from catapults.
    Not as easily, but they could be.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,330
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    CD13 said:

    We kept pet rabbits when I was a child. We ate them too.

    They were just as delicious when you knew their names.

    Oddly enough, guinea pigs don't seem to have incurred the same fate in the UK (in marked contrast to their native continent).
    It's a Jared Diamond point that South America is short of useful native mammals (both food and draft) which is why they have to fanny about with llamas and guinea pigs and stuff.

    Fun fact: Primates (including us), guinea pigs and new world fruit bats are the only mammals which can't synthesize their own vitamin C. Knowing that feels like the basis for a special relationship, which makes eating them seem wrong.
    IIRC that is why the native peoples of the circumarctic lands can survive on a meat-only diet - there is just enough VitC in the fresh meat (not sure which bits). And they don't have to rely on cavies.
    Irrespective of vitamin C, over reliance on rabbit meat is not good for you at all...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,330
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Poirot is on ITV3 at the moment.

    A repeat, I'm betting.
    Almost certainly not a live press conference.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,528
    edited August 31
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    All the time (well, in the spring), in the field behind the house. Yum.
    Lamb chops ARE nice although they can be greasy. I'd like to be vegetarian - half my family is and it's the half in the better shape - but I'm poor at giving up things. Plus there are other things I really need to give up before meat. I mainly eat chicken and pork though. Not much beef or lamb.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 29,622

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Well, they do. Like the rest of us.

    It's just that they're very short lives.
    How would you like to be brutally attacked and end up in a korma?
    Once I'm dead its of little consequence to me where I end up.

    I'm glad I'm at the top of the food chain.
    Pretty much everything gets eaten by maggots in the end, which makes them the championes I think.
    Or chompiones.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,528

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Only in Britain - where our misanthropy means we need pets as a proxy to express our repressed feelings - would this ridiculously trivial story become news.
    I'm somewhat at a loss how dear Geronimo attracted so many defenders. Yes Llamas are fluffy creatures, but many animals are cute.
    The Peruvians I know find the whole thing a bit weird. Apparently tons of llamas got the chop there in various anti-TB campaigns.
    I remember the producer of Flight of the Condor got death threats, when he was filmed eating a guinea pig in Peru.
    One country's cute and cuddly pet is another's tasty main course.
    Should have seen the faces of my Taiwanese students when I innocently let slip I'd eaten and enjoyed rabbit.
    I was transformed into Hannibal Lecter.
    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.
    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Yes.

    I've never had them as a pet personally though, so all I have to say about that is they're best served with mint sauce.
    So you'll eat anything you haven't had as a pet?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 35,697
    edited August 31

    Labour's conference looks like it is going to be fun and Mark Drakeford goes completely off script but then we always knew he was a Corbynista

    https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https://order-order.com/2021/08/31/labour-party-denying-conference-platform-to-its-far-left-youth-wing/&text=Labour’s Commie Conference Crisis&via=guidofawkes

    Bizarre way to post a link
    I know but then I am not very tech savvy but the content of that tweet demonstrates that Mark Drakeford is very much a supporter of Corbyn

    From the tweet

    Labour’s conference may still be a month off, though Sir Keir is already facing headaches on multiple fronts. Young Labour chair Jess Barnard has published a lengthy Twitter thread bemoaning the party’s efforts to muzzle its youth wing and distance itself from its far-left politics. This is, of course, the same Young Labour that expressed ‘solidarity’ with the Cuban government, saying it fully supports “an end the illegal blockade of Cuba and stands in solidarity with Cubans against US imperialism.” Can you imagine why Starmer way want to put some distance between himself and the Labour youth wing?

    Writing this afternoon, Barnard claims to have heard “nothing from Keir Starmer or the leaders [sic] office since being elected almost a year ago”, and that following the cancellation of their own YL conference, Labour’s General Secretary David Evans has now reneged on his promise to “provide YL with more resources at national conference [in Brighton] to make up for it.” Apparently the party just doesn’t have the time to run all those due diligence checks on its young socialists…

    Young Labour aren’t the only ones making bad conference headlines; Labour’s elected leader in Wales, Mark Drakeford, has shocked political rivals by agreeing to appear alongside independent MP Jeremy Corbyn and recently expelled Ken Loach at a fringe event. Drakeford, fresh off bungling Wales’ response to the Covid crisis, will appear at The World Transformed fringe tent. Wales Against Antisemitism has expressed rage at his appearance, asking why the First Minister thinks it “appropriate to speak at this event, given the antisemitism controversies involving many of his fellow speakers?” – a question Welsh Conservative Leader is also levelling at Drakeford:

    “This demonstrates a huge lack of judgment and sensitivity on the First Minister’s part – how will Wales’ Jewish community feel in seeing him cosy up with those who have shown disregard to the very real presence of the world’s oldest form of racism in the Labour Party?

    Drakeford’s actions begs the question of why he thinks it is appropriate to make friends with those Sir Keir Starmer has said has no place in the Party.”

    Recently the left was wetting themself with excitement over Corbyn’s forthcoming appearance at Labour conference, claiming “Centrists are fuming over his attendance.” Guido had to point out that the absolute boy’s in fact appearing in a field… ten minutes down the road.



    I'd bet the world's oldest form of racism was directed at Neanderthals. Poor sods still on the receiving end even though extinct.
    Some must have survived in the Netherlands, anagrammatically disguised
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,359

    I have to laugh at @bigjohnowls obsessive hatred for serkeir. As if Keir is the problem and that all Labour need to do is remove him and all their problems go away.

    Go on then. He announces his resignation at 1pm today. Who is the available candidate who will lead from the front, pronounce the big picture policy agenda that lights up people's imaginations and delivers the killer blow to the evil Tories?

    Laura Pidcock

    😂
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,177
    kinabalu said:



    I love meat and will try any but I can't eat rabbit since I had pet rabbits.

    Its like eating puppies to me now.

    Have you never seen little lambs gamboling about a field without a care in the world, every now and again stopping to nibble at the grass, rubbing up against each other for companionship, happy in the knowledge they have their whole lives ahead of them?
    Yes, I had exactly that experience and resolved never to eat lamb again. Awkwardly, in my current job we advise that it's often more humane to eat lamb and beef than chicken, because they on many farms they live reasonable lives outdoors and chickens generally have pretty hellish lives. Just eating less of meat generally is undoubtedly a good idea, from both humane and climate change perspectives.
This discussion has been closed.