Two Lessons Learnt – politicalbetting.com
Two Lessons Learnt – politicalbetting.com
7 years ago this month the Independent Inquiry into Child Sex Abuse was first announced. Cameron was PM, May Home Secretary and the Brexit referendum not even the teensiest cloud on the horizon. How time flies! After three Chairs, the Inquiry – under the chairmanship of its 4th Head, Professor Alexis Jay (who wrote the report on child abuse in Rotherham, published in August 2014) – has been quietly taking evidence and publishing a series of heart-breaking and devastatingly critical reports. Schools, councils (Rochdale, Nottinghamshire), the Catholic and Anglican churches, custodial institutions, children’s homes, sport, health: it feels as if nowhere was safe for children, especially some of the most vulnerable, those who were in the care of the state or institutions which should have been trusted. Now the latest report on Lambeth is out – here. It is a horrible read but this paragraph from the executive summary says it all:-
Comments
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First.0
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The utter scale of the Lambeth abuse astounded me when I heard it on the radio yesterday.1
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On topic -
They have given us into the hands of the new unhappy lords,
Lords without anger and honour, who dare not carry their swords.
They fight by shuffling papers; they have bright dead alien eyes;
They look at our labour and laughter as a tired man looks at flies.
And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs,
Their doors are shut in the evenings; and they know no songs.
The new Upper 10,000 is different to the old. The new have worse manners and less shame.
EDIT
My solution for the problem of accountability for the above scandals would be to have put everyone who knew on the Sex Offenders registers.4 -
I suspect there may be a third lesson, from anyone who did try and raise concerns, that they were either ignored or suffered negative consquences for raising those concerns.6
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I'm afraid to say that nothing surprises me about child abuse in institutions anymore.4
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Lessons not learned. Again.1
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Yes, they were. In all the cases mentioned in the article.Selebian said:I suspect there may be a third lesson, from anyone who did try and raise concerns, that they were either ignored or suffered negative consquences for raising those concerns.
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Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
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Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.0 -
Leaving aside anything else, there is a veritable library of alexandria of soft core porn in existence, is she not aware of it?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.1 -
Yes. Maybe we need some equivalent to the George Cross for whistleblowers. An award and a stipend for those brave enough to speak out.Selebian said:I suspect there may be a third lesson, from anyone who did try and raise concerns, that they were either ignored or suffered negative consquences for raising those concerns.
We have a cultural aversion to speaking out, to rocking the boat, being difficult, snitching. We need to be serious about rewarding those who take the risk to do so regardless.2 -
Twitter has judged her post and found her gylfi.TOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.2 -
Shots fired
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Child abuse isn't something that happens very rarely or "by exception" in these institutions, it's widespread. It has also happened (in a different form) to elderly vulnerable people in care homes.Pulpstar said:The utter scale of the Lambeth abuse astounded me when I heard it on the radio yesterday.
There's a nasty part of the human psyche that enjoys inflicting abuse on those who can't fight back as a power-kick, and these institutions disproportionately attract the sort of types who like to give free reign to it.
They are very good at finding a "reason" to justify it through 'bad behaviour' of their charges - perhaps because they were indisciplined in following the rules, scared, wanted attention, or just soiled themselves - and they then feel on weak ground in fighting back as they lack the confidence to do so, and fear it'd always be put down to being their fault.
So, they don't.1 -
So sensible Flozza has deleted itTOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
Off the top of my head
Gateway drug
Zero cooperation from parents
All the cool kids will think it's shit0 -
And it already exists. As you say, gateway drug.Theuniondivvie said:
So sensible Flozza has deleted itTOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
Off the top of my head
Gateway drug
Zero cooperation from parents
All the cool kids will think it's shit0 -
I've never met someone in authority who trumpeted openness and honesty who I did not also know would be furious if bad news got out in a way they did not have control over.LostPassword said:
Yes. Maybe we need some equivalent to the George Cross for whistleblowers. An award and a stipend for those brave enough to speak out.Selebian said:I suspect there may be a third lesson, from anyone who did try and raise concerns, that they were either ignored or suffered negative consquences for raising those concerns.
We have a cultural aversion to speaking out, to rocking the boat, being difficult, snitching. We need to be serious about rewarding those who take the risk to do so regardless.2 -
Another significant step in AI development.
Open-Ended Learning Leads to Generally Capable Agents
https://deepmind.com/research/publications/open-ended-learning-leads-to-generally-capable-agents
...We show that through constructing an open-ended learning process, which dynamically changes the training task distributions and training objectives such that the agent never stops learning, we achieve consistent learning of new behaviours. The resulting agent is able to score reward in every one of our humanly solvable evaluation levels, with behaviour generalising to many held-out points in the universe of tasks. Examples of this zero-shot generalisation include good performance on Hide and Seek, Capture the Flag, and Tag. Through analysis and hand-authored probe tasks we characterise the behaviour of our agent, and find interesting emergent heuristic behaviours such as trial-and-error experimentation, simple tool use, option switching, and co-operation. Finally, we demonstrate that the general capabilities of this agent could unlock larger scale transfer of behaviour through cheap fine tuning...0 -
She obviously had quite the sheltered upbringing, to not realise that there’s a million different types of porn on the Internet. A fair amount of which meets the description of what she’s looking for.kle4 said:
Leaving aside anything else, there is a veritable library of alexandria of soft core porn in existence, is she not aware of it?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.0 -
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And about consequences for those in charge who have been grossly negligent.LostPassword said:
Yes. Maybe we need some equivalent to the George Cross for whistleblowers. An award and a stipend for those brave enough to speak out.Selebian said:I suspect there may be a third lesson, from anyone who did try and raise concerns, that they were either ignored or suffered negative consquences for raising those concerns.
We have a cultural aversion to speaking out, to rocking the boat, being difficult, snitching. We need to be serious about rewarding those who take the risk to do so regardless.
...The more senior you are, the more responsibility you have, the greater the chances of avoiding any actual responsibility or criticism at all...0 -
A problem with the current system is that there is a financial incentive on employees to raise whistleblowing concerns in the context of most complaints to remove the statutory cap on unfair dismissal awards. There is no cap on dismissals or detriments that arose as a result of raising a protected disclosure, and no qualifying period.LostPassword said:
Yes. Maybe we need some equivalent to the George Cross for whistleblowers. An award and a stipend for those brave enough to speak out.Selebian said:I suspect there may be a third lesson, from anyone who did try and raise concerns, that they were either ignored or suffered negative consquences for raising those concerns.
We have a cultural aversion to speaking out, to rocking the boat, being difficult, snitching. We need to be serious about rewarding those who take the risk to do so regardless.
All well and good, broadly I support, but as a result it became the policy of at least one claimant law firm in the City to routinely raise a whistleblowing element in all the unfair dismissal claims raised on behalf of their clients (unless there was another discrimination element) resulting in huge amount of chaff and very little wheat. The whole thing needs an overhaul.0 -
That's so much less impressive than they make out. The physics of every different challenge is the same. They are still specialising for a single task, it is just a larger task than normal.Nigelb said:Another significant step in AI development.
Open-Ended Learning Leads to Generally Capable Agents
https://deepmind.com/research/publications/open-ended-learning-leads-to-generally-capable-agents
...We show that through constructing an open-ended learning process, which dynamically changes the training task distributions and training objectives such that the agent never stops learning, we achieve consistent learning of new behaviours. The resulting agent is able to score reward in every one of our humanly solvable evaluation levels, with behaviour generalising to many held-out points in the universe of tasks. Examples of this zero-shot generalisation include good performance on Hide and Seek, Capture the Flag, and Tag. Through analysis and hand-authored probe tasks we characterise the behaviour of our agent, and find interesting emergent heuristic behaviours such as trial-and-error experimentation, simple tool use, option switching, and co-operation. Finally, we demonstrate that the general capabilities of this agent could unlock larger scale transfer of behaviour through cheap fine tuning...
Half or double the gravity and these agents would be totally lost.0 -
And, I can think of people I once respected, who either turned out to be abusers, or looked on, or looked the other way, while it was happening.Casino_Royale said:I'm afraid to say that nothing surprises me about child abuse in institutions anymore.
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I agree. Apart from the fact its completely impractical.TOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
When I was a teenager in Australia (don't know if it was the same here) there were softcore porn magazines that were rated 15+ instead of 18+ - topless pictures and the like but nothing really 'shocking'. Plus then magazines like FHM etc. I have no idea what such stuff is like nowadays but would assume everyone gets everything from the internet, but the internet ramps everything up to 11.
I don't see any way to really encourage or facilitate 'softcore' websites that are accessible to younger people. Especially since younger people aren't thick and know how to access the hardcore sites if they want to.1 -
'Take Cardinal Heenan, leader of the Catholic Church who, when told by the daughter of Lord Devlin of the abuse he was inflicting on her, believed her but responded “Better you than a mistress.”'
This makes it sound as if Cardinal Heenan was personally doing the abuse himself. Is that right?0 -
Flora Gill is clearly very thick:TOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
https://twitter.com/FloraEGill/status/1420753165008334864?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet1 -
When we were young and you wanted some material it was a case of going to the newsagents and there were age-appropriate risque material available that could be purchased without looking over 18 or having ID. Nowadays online the main websites that are well known are quite perverted, hence the ongoing Stepmom joke. I wouldn't have a clue where a teenager should look for something softcore and appropriate.Sandpit said:
She obviously had quite the sheltered upbringing, to not realise that there’s a million different types of porn on the Internet. A fair amount of which meets the description of what she’s looking for.kle4 said:
Leaving aside anything else, there is a veritable library of alexandria of soft core porn in existence, is she not aware of it?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
The internet it seems to me is pushing things to extremes, as it often does.0 -
I think the ending to your penultimate paragraph, about the claim of naivety by those in charge, is crucial to dealing with this. Someone who takes a position with responsibility for care for the vulnerable shouldn't allow themselves to be "naive" (I prefer "ignorant") about this kind of thing happening.
I'm pretty sure we can't change the law and then retrospectively punish people like Hodge for their disgraceful ignorance, though I think we should make it punishable in the future. Could, though, the victims of Lambeth sue Hodge, the others with responsibility, and Lambeth Council? (ditto for Rotherham &c.)0 -
None really, except for her use of the phrase "porn for children" - porn for teens/young people would have been better. Interesting juxtaposition on a thread ostensibly about child abuse, though.TOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.3 -
No - and the article I linked to makes that clear. The abuse was being done by Lord Devlin. She told the Cardinal. According to her, he listened, asked questions and believed what she told him but then went onto make the remark I quote. The response of her mother is even worse.Stark_Dawning said:'Take Cardinal Heenan, leader of the Catholic Church who, when told by the daughter of Lord Devlin of the abuse he was inflicting on her, believed her but responded “Better you than a mistress.”'
This makes it sound as if Cardinal Heenan was personally doing the abuse himself. Is that right?0 -
You could put people on the Offenders registers - if they knew, they were accessories to the crimes.BlancheLivermore said:I think the ending to your penultimate paragraph, about the claim of naivety by those in charge, is crucial to dealing with this. Someone who takes a position with responsibility for care for the vulnerable shouldn't allow themselves to be "naive" (I prefer "ignorant") about this kind of thing happening.
I'm pretty sure we can't change the law and then retrospectively punish people like Hodge for their disgraceful ignorance, though I think we should make it punishable in the future. Could, though, the victims of Lambeth sue Hodge, the others with responsibility, and Lambeth Council? (ditto for Rotherham &c.)
The horrified bleating of "But that is unfair and arbitrary" that arrises when you suggest that, suggests that (a) the current system of registers is arbitrary and (b) the idea is something that terrifies the shit out of people in the system.1 -
You and Dubya in the war onTheuniondivvie said:
So sensible Flozza has deleted itTOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
Off the top of my head
Gateway drug
Zero cooperation from parents
All the cool kids will think it's shitdrugspornwhat have you.
Do you learn nothing? They are watching it anyway. Which would you prefer - young teens to watch @TSE's preferred stepmoms or something light(er) and fluffy?
And cool kids might think it's shit but how many cool kids are there vs curious youngsters who need a sensible introduction to all that stuff.1 -
I like that idea, but the "if they knew" is the point. If they didn't know, then they should be able to point to all the work they did to try to know about it. If they can't, then I think they should be prosecuted as if they'd joined in.Malmesbury said:
You could put people on the Offenders registers - if they knew, they were accessories to the crimes.BlancheLivermore said:I think the ending to your penultimate paragraph, about the claim of naivety by those in charge, is crucial to dealing with this. Someone who takes a position with responsibility for care for the vulnerable shouldn't allow themselves to be "naive" (I prefer "ignorant") about this kind of thing happening.
I'm pretty sure we can't change the law and then retrospectively punish people like Hodge for their disgraceful ignorance, though I think we should make it punishable in the future. Could, though, the victims of Lambeth sue Hodge, the others with responsibility, and Lambeth Council? (ditto for Rotherham &c.)
The horrified bleating of "But that is unfair and arbitrary" that arrises when you suggest that, suggests that (a) the current system of registers is arbitrary and (b) the idea is something that terrifies the shit out of people in the system.0 -
True but I think the attempt is laudable. Not every teen is a street-hardened dead-eyed pro looking for stepmoms. Plenty I'm sure are just curious and would benefit from and appreciate a softer entry. So to speak.Philip_Thompson said:
I agree. Apart from the fact its completely impractical.TOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
When I was a teenager in Australia (don't know if it was the same here) there were softcore porn magazines that were rated 15+ instead of 18+ - topless pictures and the like but nothing really 'shocking'. Plus then magazines like FHM etc. I have no idea what such stuff is like nowadays but would assume everyone gets everything from the internet, but the internet ramps everything up to 11.
I don't see any way to really encourage or facilitate 'softcore' websites that are accessible to younger people. Especially since younger people aren't thick and know how to access the hardcore sites if they want to.
Shame she has deleted it, if she has.1 -
Welcome to social media where people say things they might think twice about saying down the pub after 6 pints.StuartDickson said:
Flora Gill is clearly very thick:TOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
https://twitter.com/FloraEGill/status/1420753165008334864?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet3 -
Or on PB frequently after the 9pm watershed. And sometimes before......eek said:
Welcome to social media where people say things they might think twice about saying down the pub after 6 pints.StuartDickson said:
Flora Gill is clearly very thick:TOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
https://twitter.com/FloraEGill/status/1420753165008334864?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet1 -
Perhaps think before you tweet rather than moan that people saw it and bring it up.StuartDickson said:
Flora Gill is clearly very thick:TOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
https://twitter.com/FloraEGill/status/1420753165008334864?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet
I'm all about not piling on or dragging up really old stuff without a good reason, but it was half an hour ago.0 -
That's a similar to the old 'give free driving lessons to joyriders' argument - they're going to nick cars and speed about in them anyway so might as well ensure they can control them better when they do.TOPPING said:
You and Dubya in the war onTheuniondivvie said:
So sensible Flozza has deleted itTOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
Off the top of my head
Gateway drug
Zero cooperation from parents
All the cool kids will think it's shitdrugspornwhat have you.
Do you learn nothing? They are watching it anyway. Which would you prefer - young teens to watch @TSE's preferred stepmoms or something light(er) and fluffy?
And cool kids might think it's shit but how many cool kids are there vs curious youngsters who need a sensible introduction to all that stuff.0 -
The way she put the point was pretty bad, made it seem way more shocking (which presumably was the point, to get attention) but it wouldn't be worth the pile on by keeping it up.TOPPING said:
True but I think the attempt is laudable. Not every teen is a street-hardened dead-eyed pro looking for stepmoms. Plenty I'm sure are just curious and would benefit from and appreciate a softer entry. So to speak.Philip_Thompson said:
I agree. Apart from the fact its completely impractical.TOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
When I was a teenager in Australia (don't know if it was the same here) there were softcore porn magazines that were rated 15+ instead of 18+ - topless pictures and the like but nothing really 'shocking'. Plus then magazines like FHM etc. I have no idea what such stuff is like nowadays but would assume everyone gets everything from the internet, but the internet ramps everything up to 11.
I don't see any way to really encourage or facilitate 'softcore' websites that are accessible to younger people. Especially since younger people aren't thick and know how to access the hardcore sites if they want to.
Shame she has deleted it, if she has.
A similar point better expressed would at least avoid the outrage.0 -
5 local by-elections today. Lab defences in Basildon and Bassetlaw, Con defences in Harrogate and Norfolk, Ind defence in South Tyneside. All follow resignations and in South Tyneside the resigning councillor is standing again ( complicated story!).2
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Teenage boys are going to look at porn come what may. When I was a young teenager even a discarded copy of The Sun would provide quite a bit of excitement. Getting hold of anything harder than The Sun, FHM etc. would require a 18+ friend/sibling who could buy the requisite material off the newsagent's top shelf.
The problem is now is that any kid can get unlimited free hardcore porn at the tap of a button to say they are 18+. Whilst I can see some logic in providing a relatively safe exposure to porn through a softer version I just can't see it working. Teenage boys, being as they are, are not going to use any kind of gentler site when they can push the boundaries with all the other content that is available to them.
I think this is one area where it is impossible to put the genie back in the bottle. The only approach really is through education in schools that this content is not normal.1 -
I agree 100%.TOPPING said:
True but I think the attempt is laudable. Not every teen is a street-hardened dead-eyed pro looking for stepmoms. Plenty I'm sure are just curious and would benefit from and appreciate a softer entry. So to speak.Philip_Thompson said:
I agree. Apart from the fact its completely impractical.TOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
When I was a teenager in Australia (don't know if it was the same here) there were softcore porn magazines that were rated 15+ instead of 18+ - topless pictures and the like but nothing really 'shocking'. Plus then magazines like FHM etc. I have no idea what such stuff is like nowadays but would assume everyone gets everything from the internet, but the internet ramps everything up to 11.
I don't see any way to really encourage or facilitate 'softcore' websites that are accessible to younger people. Especially since younger people aren't thick and know how to access the hardcore sites if they want to.
Shame she has deleted it, if she has.
Prohibition never works. Pushing people into the arms of "stepmoms" is not a good thing to me.1 -
I think the real problem was 'children' and 'porn' in the same sentence. I'd try to avoid putting them in the same paragraph if I were advocating something.kle4 said:
The way she put the point was pretty bad, made it seem way more shocking (which presumably was the point, to get attention) but it wouldn't be worth the pile on by keeping it up.TOPPING said:
True but I think the attempt is laudable. Not every teen is a street-hardened dead-eyed pro looking for stepmoms. Plenty I'm sure are just curious and would benefit from and appreciate a softer entry. So to speak.Philip_Thompson said:
I agree. Apart from the fact its completely impractical.TOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
When I was a teenager in Australia (don't know if it was the same here) there were softcore porn magazines that were rated 15+ instead of 18+ - topless pictures and the like but nothing really 'shocking'. Plus then magazines like FHM etc. I have no idea what such stuff is like nowadays but would assume everyone gets everything from the internet, but the internet ramps everything up to 11.
I don't see any way to really encourage or facilitate 'softcore' websites that are accessible to younger people. Especially since younger people aren't thick and know how to access the hardcore sites if they want to.
Shame she has deleted it, if she has.
A similar point better expressed would at least avoid the outrage.1 -
Ah yes fair enough notwithstanding the UN deems people under 18 as children.Northern_Al said:
None really, except for her use of the phrase "porn for children" - porn for teens/young people would have been better. Interesting juxtaposition on a thread ostensibly about child abuse, though.TOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
But the principle is a good one.1 -
31,117 cases, 85 deaths.
Incoming media panic that cases up again today vs yesterday (when still down vs same day last week).0 -
2
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That is an interesting irony when someone is being a very pompous arse calling someone else a pompous arse, even when the target of the accusation is indeed, a pompous arse.DougSeal said:Shots fired
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A thread about child abuse and within a few comments people are discussing porn for teenagers.......
A bit like my header about sexual violence against women where one esteemed poster started boasting about the many tarts his friend had a night.
Only on PB eh!3 -
My arse is far more pompous than yoursNigel_Foremain said:
That is an interesting irony when someone is being a very pompous arse calling someone else a pompous arse, even when the target of the accusation is indeed, a pompous arse.DougSeal said:Shots fired
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Er, no it isn't. Teens will explore porn. Sex is perfectly natural. A "healthy" way to consume it for such people is an extremely good idea.Stark_Dawning said:
That's a similar to the old 'give free driving lessons to joyriders' argument - they're going to nick cars and speed about in them anyway so might as well ensure they can control them better when they do.TOPPING said:
You and Dubya in the war onTheuniondivvie said:
So sensible Flozza has deleted itTOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
Off the top of my head
Gateway drug
Zero cooperation from parents
All the cool kids will think it's shitdrugspornwhat have you.
Do you learn nothing? They are watching it anyway. Which would you prefer - young teens to watch @TSE's preferred stepmoms or something light(er) and fluffy?
And cool kids might think it's shit but how many cool kids are there vs curious youngsters who need a sensible introduction to all that stuff.
"Oh it's all out there" people say but to have a dedicated site which is safe and stepmom free would be a great idea.0 -
Yes. The follies of youth. And of being on Twitter.kle4 said:
The way she put the point was pretty bad, made it seem way more shocking (which presumably was the point, to get attention) but it wouldn't be worth the pile on by keeping it up.TOPPING said:
True but I think the attempt is laudable. Not every teen is a street-hardened dead-eyed pro looking for stepmoms. Plenty I'm sure are just curious and would benefit from and appreciate a softer entry. So to speak.Philip_Thompson said:
I agree. Apart from the fact its completely impractical.TOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
When I was a teenager in Australia (don't know if it was the same here) there were softcore porn magazines that were rated 15+ instead of 18+ - topless pictures and the like but nothing really 'shocking'. Plus then magazines like FHM etc. I have no idea what such stuff is like nowadays but would assume everyone gets everything from the internet, but the internet ramps everything up to 11.
I don't see any way to really encourage or facilitate 'softcore' websites that are accessible to younger people. Especially since younger people aren't thick and know how to access the hardcore sites if they want to.
Shame she has deleted it, if she has.
A similar point better expressed would at least avoid the outrage.0 -
31.117/85/9320
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@Theuniondivvie did make the post on the previous thread, before s/he could have read yours..Cyclefree said:A thread about child abuse and within a few comments people are discussing porn for teenagers.......
A bit like my header about sexual violence against women where one esteemed poster started boasting about the many tarts his friend had a night.
Only on PB eh!0 -
The rate of decrease is still around 36-37%, so no real change in the trajectory, but I bet Sky News will be along with a breaking news tweet that iSage will jump on.FrancisUrquhart said:31,117 cases, 85 deaths.
Incoming media panic that cases up again today vs yesterday (when still down vs same day last week).0 -
I think many people, "children" (ie teens) and parents, would breathe a sigh of relief if they knew that ABC.com was a safe place for youngsters to consume sex-related material, thus obviating the need to trawl through pages of come what may (not a particular PM-related predilection, just an English idiom). Throw some sex education in there also why not.AlistairM said:Teenage boys are going to look at porn come what may. When I was a young teenager even a discarded copy of The Sun would provide quite a bit of excitement. Getting hold of anything harder than The Sun, FHM etc. would require a 18+ friend/sibling who could buy the requisite material off the newsagent's top shelf.
The problem is now is that any kid can get unlimited free hardcore porn at the tap of a button to say they are 18+. Whilst I can see some logic in providing a relatively safe exposure to porn through a softer version I just can't see it working. Teenage boys, being as they are, are not going to use any kind of gentler site when they can push the boundaries with all the other content that is available to them.
I think this is one area where it is impossible to put the genie back in the bottle. The only approach really is through education in schools that this content is not normal.0 -
The growth rate in England hospital admissions continues to slow rapidly.FrancisUrquhart said:31,117 cases, 85 deaths.
Incoming media panic that cases up again today vs yesterday (when still down vs same day last week).
They’re still increasing (just), but Tuesday’s (816) was only 1% up on the previous week (805). It was 10% yesterday.
Beds occupied now at 5,056 - *down* from 5,182 yesterday.
https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1420760740877668372?s=203 -
English admissions and people in hospital are now starting to turn downwards, as expected.RH1992 said:
The rate of decrease is still around 36-37%, so no real change in the trajectory, but I bet Sky News will be along with a breaking news tweet that iSage will jump on.FrancisUrquhart said:31,117 cases, 85 deaths.
Incoming media panic that cases up again today vs yesterday (when still down vs same day last week).0 -
Alistair Half baked theory update
Theory England prediciton: 26629
England Actual: 275240 -
I am a little perturbed by Tim Spector's comments yesterday that the ZOE app isn't seeing the same reduction and he had a number of hypothesis why official case numbers have dropped and that doesn't mean that actual cases in the wild have dropped. Especially as in the past he has normally been one of the more optimistic to call a wave over.RH1992 said:
The rate of decrease is still around 36-37%, so no real change in the trajectory, but I bet Sky News will be along with a breaking news tweet that iSage will jump on.FrancisUrquhart said:31,117 cases, 85 deaths.
Incoming media panic that cases up again today vs yesterday (when still down vs same day last week).
However, at the same time, due to the now total mismatch been the survey group of ZOE i.e. dominated by people who are vaccinated / partially vaccinated, because Piers Corbyn isn't going to sign up to an app that collects your self reported health data, ZOE algorithm has had to have a massive tweak, so it could be for the first time that now ZOE data isn't anywhere near as useful as before widespread vaccination.0 -
Testing is still falling much slower than cases.FrancisUrquhart said:
I am a little perturbed by Tim Spector's comments yesterday that the ZOE app isn't seeing the same reduction and he had a number of hypothesis why official case numbers have dropped and that doesn't mean that actual cases in the wild have dropped. Especially as in the past he has normally been one of the more optimistic to call a wave over.RH1992 said:
The rate of decrease is still around 36-37%, so no real change in the trajectory, but I bet Sky News will be along with a breaking news tweet that iSage will jump on.FrancisUrquhart said:31,117 cases, 85 deaths.
Incoming media panic that cases up again today vs yesterday (when still down vs same day last week).
However, at the same time, due to the now total mismatch been the survey group of ZOE i.e. dominated by people who are vaccinated / partially vaccinated, because Piers Corbyn isn't going to sign up to an app that collects your self reported health data, ZOE algorithm has had to have a massive tweak, so it could be for the first time that now ZOE data isn't anywhere near as useful as before widespread vaccination.0 -
Awful use of words. "Entry level" points conjures up all sorts of images...Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.0 -
Cases struck closer to him for me yesterday. My kids were at a holiday tennis club yesterday, One of their friends (10yo) started feeling unwell later on in the day and tested positive on a LFT. The kid with Covid had after the tennis club (which was fortunately all outside) hugged our 3 year old. We've all done LFTs (all negative) but will have to do so over the next few days.FrancisUrquhart said:31,117 cases, 85 deaths.
Incoming media panic that cases up again today vs yesterday (when still down vs same day last week).
Anecdotally there seem to be lots of cases and people in isolation in our Bucks village, including those double jabbed. Not heard of anyone having it badly though.0 -
His theories were partially based around the likes of school kids not getting tested, but also things like because people are away on holidays (or just about to go on holiday and ignore mild symptoms as they don't want to miss out).Malmesbury said:
Testing is still falling much slower than cases.FrancisUrquhart said:
I am a little perturbed by Tim Spector's comments yesterday that the ZOE app isn't seeing the same reduction and he had a number of hypothesis why official case numbers have dropped and that doesn't mean that actual cases in the wild have dropped. Especially as in the past he has normally been one of the more optimistic to call a wave over.RH1992 said:
The rate of decrease is still around 36-37%, so no real change in the trajectory, but I bet Sky News will be along with a breaking news tweet that iSage will jump on.FrancisUrquhart said:31,117 cases, 85 deaths.
Incoming media panic that cases up again today vs yesterday (when still down vs same day last week).
However, at the same time, due to the now total mismatch been the survey group of ZOE i.e. dominated by people who are vaccinated / partially vaccinated, because Piers Corbyn isn't going to sign up to an app that collects your self reported health data, ZOE algorithm has had to have a massive tweak, so it could be for the first time that now ZOE data isn't anywhere near as useful as before widespread vaccination.0 -
The fact that admissions and hospital occupancies have levelled off shows that the drop in cases is real.FrancisUrquhart said:
I am a little perturbed by Tim Spector's comments yesterday that the ZOE app isn't seeing the same reduction and he had a number of hypothesis why official case numbers have dropped and that doesn't mean that actual cases in the wild have dropped. Especially as in the past he has normally been one of the more optimistic to call a wave over.RH1992 said:
The rate of decrease is still around 36-37%, so no real change in the trajectory, but I bet Sky News will be along with a breaking news tweet that iSage will jump on.FrancisUrquhart said:31,117 cases, 85 deaths.
Incoming media panic that cases up again today vs yesterday (when still down vs same day last week).
However, at the same time, due to the now total mismatch been the survey group of ZOE i.e. dominated by people who are vaccinated / partially vaccinated, because Piers Corbyn isn't going to sign up to an app that collects your self reported health data, ZOE algorithm has had to have a massive tweak, so it could be for the first time that now ZOE data isn't anywhere near as useful as before widespread vaccination.1 -
When I was a lad, those with older brothers had a distinct advantage.0
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This is an excellent article. I find it very sad how much people shrug and move on because it doesn't fit into the easy political bunfights. I also find it alarming the relative lack of media coverage given the importance of the issue.4
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Double jabbed getting infected still remains a small percentage, about 15%, of the total cases, which given how widespread vaccination is, is very positive.AlistairM said:
Cases struck closer to him for me yesterday. My kids were at a holiday tennis club yesterday, One of their friends (10yo) started feeling unwell later on in the day and tested positive on a LFT. The kid with Covid had after the tennis club (which was fortunately all outside) hugged our 3 year old. We've all done LFTs (all negative) but will have to do so over the next few days.FrancisUrquhart said:31,117 cases, 85 deaths.
Incoming media panic that cases up again today vs yesterday (when still down vs same day last week).
Anecdotally there seem to be lots of cases and people in isolation in our Bucks village, including those double jabbed. Not heard of anyone having it badly though.
We are as the months go on obviously going to start to see it be a much bigger percentage of the total, as the number of unvaccinated people who haven't had COVID will become a small percentage of the population.0 -
Probably not 'fluffy'. When I was at school (before the web had really taken off) 'fluffy' was used to describe erotica catering to, well,... niche tastes (a classmate brought in a badly printed image in which one of the participants appeared to be fluffy, no idea where he'd got it, parents' computer maybe - safe to say he never lived it down).TOPPING said:
You and Dubya in the war onTheuniondivvie said:
So sensible Flozza has deleted itTOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
Off the top of my head
Gateway drug
Zero cooperation from parents
All the cool kids will think it's shitdrugspornwhat have you.
Do you learn nothing? They are watching it anyway. Which would you prefer - young teens to watch @TSE's preferred stepmoms or something light(er) and fluffy?
And cool kids might think it's shit but how many cool kids are there vs curious youngsters who need a sensible introduction to all that stuff.0 -
One proposal from several years ago on a feminist blog.Philip_Thompson said:
When we were young and you wanted some material it was a case of going to the newsagents and there were age-appropriate risque material available that could be purchased without looking over 18 or having ID. Nowadays online the main websites that are well known are quite perverted, hence the ongoing Stepmom joke. I wouldn't have a clue where a teenager should look for something softcore and appropriate.Sandpit said:
She obviously had quite the sheltered upbringing, to not realise that there’s a million different types of porn on the Internet. A fair amount of which meets the description of what she’s looking for.kle4 said:
Leaving aside anything else, there is a veritable library of alexandria of soft core porn in existence, is she not aware of it?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
The internet it seems to me is pushing things to extremes, as it often does.
https://thefword.org.uk/2008/01/against_censors/0 -
Isn't that just a slightly different version of the SNP "Outrage !! Polling about the Union on the COVID Budget !!" flap from a couple of weeks ago that went nowhere?ping said:https://goodlawproject.org/update/taxpayers-money-political-polling/
Not even remotely acceptable.
This time by Great Jumping Jolyon about political figures? Or is there something to this one?0 -
Is this what twitter was like before Covid? Everyone just sat around discussing porn and Brexit?
https://twitter.com/skepticalzebra/status/1420762462077427714?s=200 -
Focusing on a small area for tangible results, seems like a good move.
Grime artist Stormzy has pledged to support a further 30 black students studying at Cambridge University.
Each will receive a £20,000 annual scholarship under a new partnership between banking group HSBC UK and the musician's charity, #Merky Foundation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-580117000 -
It happens in all sorts of areas. Occasionally I point out that abuse is massively common here in the UK: according to the crime survey, 1.6 million women and 757,000 men suffered domestic abuse in the last year. (1)Aslan said:This is an excellent article. I find it very sad how much people shrug and move on because it doesn't fit into the easy political bunfights. I also find it alarming the relative lack of media coverage given the importance of the issue.
Likewise, 1.6 million adults aged 16 to 74 years had experienced sexual assault by rape or penetration (including attempts) since the age of 16 years. (2)
Few of us on here are shrinking violets: we will know and talk to many people. Most, perhaps all, of us will know someone who has experienced rape or sexual assault in the past, and probably someone who has suffered domestic abuse in the last year. Yet some seem to deny this: their social circle magically does not include such victims.
(1): https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/domesticabuseinenglandandwalesoverview/november2020
(2): https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/natureofsexualassaultbyrapeorpenetrationenglandandwales/yearendingmarch20203 -
Cases by specimen date
0 -
Cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K
0 -
England PCR positivity
0 -
I think the latter is a definite likely.FrancisUrquhart said:
His theories were partially based around the likes of school kids not getting tested, but also things like because people are away on holidays (or just about to go on holiday and ignore mild symptoms as they don't want to miss out).Malmesbury said:
Testing is still falling much slower than cases.FrancisUrquhart said:
I am a little perturbed by Tim Spector's comments yesterday that the ZOE app isn't seeing the same reduction and he had a number of hypothesis why official case numbers have dropped and that doesn't mean that actual cases in the wild have dropped. Especially as in the past he has normally been one of the more optimistic to call a wave over.RH1992 said:
The rate of decrease is still around 36-37%, so no real change in the trajectory, but I bet Sky News will be along with a breaking news tweet that iSage will jump on.FrancisUrquhart said:31,117 cases, 85 deaths.
Incoming media panic that cases up again today vs yesterday (when still down vs same day last week).
However, at the same time, due to the now total mismatch been the survey group of ZOE i.e. dominated by people who are vaccinated / partially vaccinated, because Piers Corbyn isn't going to sign up to an app that collects your self reported health data, ZOE algorithm has had to have a massive tweak, so it could be for the first time that now ZOE data isn't anywhere near as useful as before widespread vaccination.0 -
UK case summary
0 -
Having a safer way for teenagers to explore sexual issues is surely very much on topic for dealing with sexual abuse?Cyclefree said:A thread about child abuse and within a few comments people are discussing porn for teenagers.......
A bit like my header about sexual violence against women where one esteemed poster started boasting about the many tarts his friend had a night.
Only on PB eh!
Shine a light on issues surely not hide them in darkness?1 -
Very important number-crunching from @AmberMaySchultz here: Australia has 6.8 million unused vaccine doses in storage...
A reminder: Australia has vast supplies of a good vaccine which had its reputation trashed by shoddy government communication, bad faith reporting and irresponsible behaviour by so-called 'experts.' One of the greatest public-policy failures of our time.
https://twitter.com/kishor_nr/status/1420555803933569027?s=203 -
UK hospitals
0 -
Also, I believe that a 'fluffer' is a thing, or rather backstage role, in such films. (from reading a Scottish detective novel partly set in that industry in Aberdeen, not watching a film!).Selebian said:
Probably not 'fluffy'. When I was at school (before the web had really taken off) 'fluffy' was used to describe erotica catering to, well,... niche tastes (a classmate brought in a badly printed image in which one of the participants appeared to be fluffy, no idea where he'd got it, parents' computer maybe - safe to say he never lived it down).TOPPING said:
You and Dubya in the war onTheuniondivvie said:
So sensible Flozza has deleted itTOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
Off the top of my head
Gateway drug
Zero cooperation from parents
All the cool kids will think it's shitdrugspornwhat have you.
Do you learn nothing? They are watching it anyway. Which would you prefer - young teens to watch @TSE's preferred stepmoms or something light(er) and fluffy?
And cool kids might think it's shit but how many cool kids are there vs curious youngsters who need a sensible introduction to all that stuff.0 -
"Issues".Philip_Thompson said:
Having a safer way for teenagers to explore sexual issues is surely very much on topic for dealing with sexual abuse?Cyclefree said:A thread about child abuse and within a few comments people are discussing porn for teenagers.......
A bit like my header about sexual violence against women where one esteemed poster started boasting about the many tarts his friend had a night.
Only on PB eh!
Shine a light on issues surely not hide them in darkness?0 -
UK Deaths
0 -
Age related data
0 -
She's 100% correct. Censorship is not the answer.MattW said:
One proposal from several years ago on a feminist blog.Philip_Thompson said:
When we were young and you wanted some material it was a case of going to the newsagents and there were age-appropriate risque material available that could be purchased without looking over 18 or having ID. Nowadays online the main websites that are well known are quite perverted, hence the ongoing Stepmom joke. I wouldn't have a clue where a teenager should look for something softcore and appropriate.Sandpit said:
She obviously had quite the sheltered upbringing, to not realise that there’s a million different types of porn on the Internet. A fair amount of which meets the description of what she’s looking for.kle4 said:
Leaving aside anything else, there is a veritable library of alexandria of soft core porn in existence, is she not aware of it?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
The internet it seems to me is pushing things to extremes, as it often does.
https://thefword.org.uk/2008/01/against_censors/
What is the answer, I'm less certain of.0 -
Also someone who goes around London Underground after the last train, clearing fluff off the rails.Carnyx said:
Also, I believe that a 'fluffer' is a thing, or rather backstage role, in such films. (from reading a Scottish detective novel partly set in that industry in Aberdeen, not watching a film!).Selebian said:
Probably not 'fluffy'. When I was at school (before the web had really taken off) 'fluffy' was used to describe erotica catering to, well,... niche tastes (a classmate brought in a badly printed image in which one of the participants appeared to be fluffy, no idea where he'd got it, parents' computer maybe - safe to say he never lived it down).TOPPING said:
You and Dubya in the war onTheuniondivvie said:
So sensible Flozza has deleted itTOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
Off the top of my head
Gateway drug
Zero cooperation from parents
All the cool kids will think it's shitdrugspornwhat have you.
Do you learn nothing? They are watching it anyway. Which would you prefer - young teens to watch @TSE's preferred stepmoms or something light(er) and fluffy?
And cool kids might think it's shit but how many cool kids are there vs curious youngsters who need a sensible introduction to all that stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluffer_(London_Underground)1 -
Ignore the morons.Cyclefree said:A thread about child abuse and within a few comments people are discussing porn for teenagers.......
A bit like my header about sexual violence against women where one esteemed poster started boasting about the many tarts his friend had a night.
Only on PB eh!
Thanks for the header. As a society, we seriously fucked up.
Glad I’ve never been responsible for child protection. I’d like to think I’d be fearless in standing up against this kind of shit, but in reality I can almost understand why pretty much everyone, one step removed from the abuse, kept their heads down - back in the 70’s/80’s/90’s. Most people had imperfect information (often just unprovable suspicions) and a high chance of losing everything if they made a scene.
I think things have changed, now, though. At least I hope so. The existence of networks of victims groups via Facebook etc make this kind of abuse so much harder to hide/run away from. It also enables witchhunts, of course. But that’s a discussion for a different day.2 -
Age related data scaled to 100K
0 -
Yes "issues".Carnyx said:
"Issues".Philip_Thompson said:
Having a safer way for teenagers to explore sexual issues is surely very much on topic for dealing with sexual abuse?Cyclefree said:A thread about child abuse and within a few comments people are discussing porn for teenagers.......
A bit like my header about sexual violence against women where one esteemed poster started boasting about the many tarts his friend had a night.
Only on PB eh!
Shine a light on issues surely not hide them in darkness?
Teenagers are going to explore their sexuality. They always have done, they always do. Its a rite of passage almost.
Doing so should be safe, not censored and pushed to extremes where people can then take advantage of them.0 -
One character too short they said…
0 -
Case rate changes
0 -
IMV removing the stigma from masturbation would help a little. One of the many ways religion harms kids.Philip_Thompson said:
Having a safer way for teenagers to explore sexual issues is surely very much on topic for dealing with sexual abuse?Cyclefree said:A thread about child abuse and within a few comments people are discussing porn for teenagers.......
A bit like my header about sexual violence against women where one esteemed poster started boasting about the many tarts his friend had a night.
Only on PB eh!
Shine a light on issues surely not hide them in darkness?1 -
I don't think I'm going to google that!Carnyx said:
Also, I believe that a 'fluffer' is a thing, or rather backstage role, in such films. (from reading a Scottish detective novel partly set in that industry in Aberdeen, not watching a film!).Selebian said:
Probably not 'fluffy'. When I was at school (before the web had really taken off) 'fluffy' was used to describe erotica catering to, well,... niche tastes (a classmate brought in a badly printed image in which one of the participants appeared to be fluffy, no idea where he'd got it, parents' computer maybe - safe to say he never lived it down).TOPPING said:
You and Dubya in the war onTheuniondivvie said:
So sensible Flozza has deleted itTOPPING said:
Very sensible. What objections do you have?Theuniondivvie said:Fpt but sorta on topic.
I hope they didn't spend too much on her education.
Off the top of my head
Gateway drug
Zero cooperation from parents
All the cool kids will think it's shitdrugspornwhat have you.
Do you learn nothing? They are watching it anyway. Which would you prefer - young teens to watch @TSE's preferred stepmoms or something light(er) and fluffy?
And cool kids might think it's shit but how many cool kids are there vs curious youngsters who need a sensible introduction to all that stuff.1 -
It causes blindness among boys.JosiasJessop said:
IMV removing the stigma from masturbation would help a little. One of the many ways religion harms kids.Philip_Thompson said:
Having a safer way for teenagers to explore sexual issues is surely very much on topic for dealing with sexual abuse?Cyclefree said:A thread about child abuse and within a few comments people are discussing porn for teenagers.......
A bit like my header about sexual violence against women where one esteemed poster started boasting about the many tarts his friend had a night.
Only on PB eh!
Shine a light on issues surely not hide them in darkness?0 -
Oh, absolutely.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes "issues".Carnyx said:
"Issues".Philip_Thompson said:
Having a safer way for teenagers to explore sexual issues is surely very much on topic for dealing with sexual abuse?Cyclefree said:A thread about child abuse and within a few comments people are discussing porn for teenagers.......
A bit like my header about sexual violence against women where one esteemed poster started boasting about the many tarts his friend had a night.
Only on PB eh!
Shine a light on issues surely not hide them in darkness?
Teenagers are going to explore their sexuality. They always have done, they always do. Its a rite of passage almost.
Doing so should be safe, not censored and pushed to extremes where people can then take advantage of them.
I was simply hinting you might want to pick a different word which is less unfortuinately ambiguouss in that context (sorry, having to do so much editing of TSS these days).0 -
Rate of decline of cases seems to be slowing somewhat, but still, importantly, heading downwards. Similar to what was seen in Scotland, where a rapid drop levelled off at a slow decline from a lower level.
As long as this is reflected in hospitalisations, that should be fine. After all, a steady throughput at about half the recent peak would mean we're moving towards towards herd immunity at a more sustainable hospital occupancy (in theory, should level off at about half the current level) and with minimal overshoot past the herd immunity threshold.
In addition, covid hospital occupancy in England has reduced for the first time since late June. Good to see.
Only if cases and hospitalisations rebound upwards after a brief dip will the above change. Hopefully not. I'd happily take a gentle decline in cases and hospital occupancy at half current levels and gently falling.0 -
Lol, a titanic drama on the future direction of a nascent British broadcasting giant in 2 tweets.
1 -
Japan reports 10,699 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase on record0
