I know this is anecdotal but... the UKIP voters I have met (NOT the UKIP activists, just the voters) seem to be middle-aged or older people who have been disappointed in life and just want to go back to when things were simpler and they felt comfortable that they knew what was going on, and threats were easier to understand and less common. So there will be different factions, because what they feel comfortable with is either traditional urban WWC, or undisturbed rural life full of hunting, shooting and forelock tugging. Neither involves any role for women except as cooks and cleaners or jolly hockey sticks upper class ladies, and neither involves any non-whites. A lot of UKIP support is just people howling that they don't like modern life and can they please go back to the 1950s when things were a lot simpler.
Pretty much desribes @isam of this parish down to a tee.
Yep. What gives the UKIP game away is the yearning for a return to the oppression of homosexuals, 1950s-style. That this can seriously matter to them so much points up both the triviality and the nastiness of this bit of the spectrum.
In a way, the Tories actually need UKIP to act as a vessel for this kind of poison. A UKIP permanently stranded on about 4% of the vote would be ideal for both the Tories, to whom they'd present no threat, and for the UKIP troughers, who'd be at no serious risk either of having to do any work or relinquish any perks.
If UKIP did not exist the Tories might perhaps invent them. Having an internal enemy you've isolated and got shot of does no harm, as Labour found with Militant Tendency.
I appreciate you're just trolling (as you usually do, when discussing UKIP).
I know this is anecdotal but... the UKIP voters I have met (NOT the UKIP activists, just the voters) seem to be middle-aged or older people who have been disappointed in life and just want to go back to when things were simpler and they felt comfortable that they knew what was going on, and threats were easier to understand and less common. A lot of UKIP support is just people howling that they don't like modern life and can they please go back to the 1950s when things were a lot simpler.
Pretty much desribes @isam of this parish down to a tee.
If UKIP did not exist the Tories might perhaps invent them. Having an internal enemy you've isolated and got shot of does no harm, as Labour found with Militant Tendency.
You could argue, militant probably cost Labour two elections.
You could also argue that militant wasn't a separate party.
Well, quite - they infiltrated the party and caused it to be associated with a lot of extreme views that bore little relation to what the majority of its supporters expected it to do in power. Militant did this as part of a deliberate strategy of entryism knowing they could never get themselves elected if they did stand as an actual party.
So they invaded a suitable host and meanwhile tried to argue that they were simply a newspaper, and not a party within a party.
UKIP's problem is they lack the self-awareness Militant had, the ability to see how you are seen. They have consequently come out into the open and been apparently surprised to be spotted as racists, loonies and fruitcakes right away. They continue to insist that dog whistles aren't dog whistles, which is to pi55 down the voters' necks and tell them it's raining.
We are now at or past peak kipper and in 10 years' time or so UKIP will be an issue for the Tories like Militant was an issue for Labour in 1997.
UKIP is a separate party and cannot be internally dealt with like militant. It will be a problem for the tories as the LD were for Labour.
It's the fact that Militant weren't a separate party that made Militant so hard to deal with. UKIP is a separate party and thus the Tories can point to UKIP and say "You see all this? This isn't us".
The only thing Labour had to do is suspend membership,censure and kick out militant from their party. The tories can't kick out UKIP members from the Tory party. Its like Labour trying to get rid off the SDP in the 1980's by publicly blasting the gang of 4 every day, it won't work.
What's the worst that can happen if Ed gets in next year?
How many of these will he push through?
(1) Minimum wage to go up with inflation/average earnings, whichever is the highest. (2) Benefits to go up with inflation (3) Quotas to be compulsory for all public sector jobs above a certain grade, based on gender, race, and sexual inclination. (4) Top rate of taxation to be 60% (5) A special annual bankers’ tax on bonuses (6) Removal of bedroom tax for social housing (7) Renationalisation of railways and energy production (8) Massive increase in green energy production – producing millions of new jobs (9) Massive capital expenditure on point (8) causing GDP to soar. (10) EU to monitor all carbon emissions and impose penalties.
Joy unconfined.
11) 1M+ public sector workers rehired on nice defined benefit pensions....
Any young person joining the public sector after 2015 will be given a pension scheme with a pension age of 70+.
If Ebola comes to the UK, as suggested is possible in todays newspapers, then most of us will be retiring sooner than we realised. I am not sure the UK would be ready to deal with an outbreak of such a deadly virus. London is an international hub and I suspect that it won't be long before someone travels here with a deadly virus such as this. UK health authorities have issued a warning to Doctors already.
A serious public health issue but one that it is not as serious as the current public health emergency of suicide,especially in men,especially men in their early forties.The local coroner raised this before he retired and my neighbour's son hung himself 6 months. Suicide is a key public health indicator which is being taken very seriously by psychiatry-it is even being suggested that lithium carbonate,a mood stabiliser,is put in the water supply. If this situation on mental health and suicide is not treated as seriously as an outbreak of Ebola,Dengue Fever or Swine Flu,it will spread and more people will die unavoidably.
Calm down, the one reason why ebola hasn't been a major epidemic since its discovery is its high death rate, victims die faster than they can transmit the virus. As long as that is maintained there is limited worry but just in case one should put some failsafes in transport from Africa.
"Ah the third one, that's the one where the Israeli Defence Minister had to resign for being culpable for the massacre of innocent Muslims.
The Israelis showed their revulsion for this chap and massacres of Muslims, they eventually made him Prime Minister."
Sharon was found culpable for allowing (and helping, I cannot recall) the Falangists to enter the Sabra and Chatila camps knowing that they were intent on slaughtering the inhabitants. An appalling crime. But the massacre was carried out by the Falangists (Lebanese citizens) not by Israeli soldiers, though for them to facilitate it was quite bad enough.
In more recent years similar criticism (and apportionment of legal responsibility) has been made of the Dutch soldiers who failed to protect the men in Srebenicza and, indeed, handed some of them in their protection over to the Serbs even after the massacre of 7000 Muslim men and boys had started and the Dutch were aware what was going on. That remains the worst war crime on European soil since WW2. And the way Europeans stood by as Bosnian Muslims were attacked and killed and expelled and tortured was utterly shameful. Perhaps we might remember our own utter moral cowardice and feebleness in the face of attacks on innocent European Muslims when being so vocal in attacking other countries.
BTW thank you for your response on the headline about statefunded Islamic schools. Relieved that it is not official Labour Party policy.
Calm down, the one reason why ebola hasn't been a major epidemic since its discovery is its high death rate, victims die faster than they can transmit the virus. As long as that is maintained there is limited worry but just in case one should put some failsafes in transport from Africa.
WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division JNN - Jacobite News Network McARSE - My Caledonian Anonymous Random Selection of Electors
YAWN
Very funny BBC sports report last night - the reporter, getting them as close as she could, said: English, Welsh and Scottish athletes have won medals today..
Would love to take a look at the BBC memo instructing how to deal with UK athletes/medal winners...
There have been slip ups, given that most of the presenters are imported, most Scottish ones relegated to radio Scotland. Been a good few TEAMGB slips. Great games so far though and wonderful atmosphere and spirit, great crowds with lots of cheering for underdogs as well as the home teams. Despite all the usual drivel spouted beforehand the English team have been cheered almost as much as the home team. Be a lot of disappointed bigots out there.
What's the worst that can happen if Ed gets in next year?
How many of these will he push through?
(1) Minimum wage to go up with inflation/average earnings, whichever is the highest. (2) Benefits to go up with inflation (3) Quotas to be compulsory for all public sector jobs above a certain grade, based on gender, race, and sexual inclination. (4) Top rate of taxation to be 60% (5) A special annual bankers’ tax on bonuses (6) Removal of bedroom tax for social housing (7) Renationalisation of railways and energy production (8) Massive increase in green energy production – producing millions of new jobs (9) Massive capital expenditure on point (8) causing GDP to soar. (10) EU to monitor all carbon emissions and impose penalties.
Joy unconfined.
11) 1M+ public sector workers rehired on nice defined benefit pensions....
Any young person joining the public sector after 2015 will be given a pension scheme with a pension age of 70+.
Flash thinks they should work for nothing with no pension at any age.
But I would also point out that one is really saying that 9.1% of children under 5 are born to Muslim parents. From my experience at a 60% Asian immigrant comprehensive, I can assure you that a majority of these will be on the "titularly Muslim, but drink alcohol and don't even know where the local Mosque us" to "don't give a shit about religion" to "of course God does't exist" spectrum,
I'd like to know how you can justify such a sweeping statement as fact @rcs1000?
The clue is in the "in my experience". What's your experience with Muslims, MikeK?
As far as facts go, I believe that more than 60% of self identified 18-25 year Muslims drink alcohol. (Not that different to the proportion of self identified Jews that eat pepperoni, I suspect).
I have plenty of experience with muslims, having fought in 3 wars against them. If you could read the original arabic of what they write (like I do) and not the phoney translations, you will find out what they think of christian Englishmen and their women. But live in your dream world.
Not doubting you at all Mr Kay, but which wars were those out of interest?
The First Crusade, The Second Crusade and The Third Crusade!
Very funny TSE. For your interest only Sunnil.
1) Milhemet Adhasha (war of attrition, Suez front) 1967 -1969 various times on reserve duty about 4 months total in all.
2) Milhemet Yom Kippor (Yom Kippor war) October 1973-November 1973 although I did 5 months continuous service. Egyptian Front, capture of Fayid air base.
3. Milhemet Levanon ( Labanese war ) 1982 First two weeks, then released from service.
Interesting. So why are are you a member of UKIP instead of, say, Likud?
WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division JNN - Jacobite News Network McARSE - My Caledonian Anonymous Random Selection of Electors
YAWN
Very funny BBC sports report last night - the reporter, getting them as close as she could, said: English, Welsh and Scottish athletes have won medals today..
Would love to take a look at the BBC memo instructing how to deal with UK athletes/medal winners...
Despite all the usual drivel spouted beforehand the English team have been cheered almost as much as the home team. Be a lot of disappointed bigots out there.
You mean the 11% of Scots who would cheer an English loss?
WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division JNN - Jacobite News Network McARSE - My Caledonian Anonymous Random Selection of Electors
YAWN
Very funny BBC sports report last night - the reporter, getting them as close as she could, said: English, Welsh and Scottish athletes have won medals today..
Would love to take a look at the BBC memo instructing how to deal with UK athletes/medal winners...
Despite all the usual drivel spouted beforehand the English team have been cheered almost as much as the home team. Be a lot of disappointed bigots out there.
You mean the 11% of Scots who would cheer an English loss?
Bitter and twisted can always find something wrong with Scotland. Sad little person.
Comments
The tories can't kick out UKIP members from the Tory party.
Its like Labour trying to get rid off the SDP in the 1980's by publicly blasting the gang of 4 every day, it won't work.
"Ah the third one, that's the one where the Israeli Defence Minister had to resign for being culpable for the massacre of innocent Muslims.
The Israelis showed their revulsion for this chap and massacres of Muslims, they eventually made him Prime Minister."
Sharon was found culpable for allowing (and helping, I cannot recall) the Falangists to enter the Sabra and Chatila camps knowing that they were intent on slaughtering the inhabitants. An appalling crime. But the massacre was carried out by the Falangists (Lebanese citizens) not by Israeli soldiers, though for them to facilitate it was quite bad enough.
In more recent years similar criticism (and apportionment of legal responsibility) has been made of the Dutch soldiers who failed to protect the men in Srebenicza and, indeed, handed some of them in their protection over to the Serbs even after the massacre of 7000 Muslim men and boys had started and the Dutch were aware what was going on. That remains the worst war crime on European soil since WW2. And the way Europeans stood by as Bosnian Muslims were attacked and killed and expelled and tortured was utterly shameful. Perhaps we might remember our own utter moral cowardice and feebleness in the face of attacks on innocent European Muslims when being so vocal in attacking other countries.
BTW thank you for your response on the headline about statefunded Islamic schools. Relieved that it is not official Labour Party policy.
Despite all the usual drivel spouted beforehand the English team have been cheered almost as much as the home team. Be a lot of disappointed bigots out there.