politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ukip sheds 4% and the Tories move up by 3% in the latest Po

Options
2»

Comments

  • Bond_James_Bond
    Bond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    edited July 2014
    Pulpstar said:

    *_____________*

    David Tredinnick said he had spent 20 years studying astrology and healthcare and was convinced it could work.

    The MP for Bosworth, a member of the health committee and the science and technology committee, said he was not afraid of ridicule or abuse.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28464009

    As Adam Ant sang in 1981, "Ridicule is nothing to be scared of."

    Which, like David "Cash for Questions" Tredinnick, he kinda has to say, really.

    edit: Sunil leapfrogged the dog and brushed me, daddy-o.

  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    Smarmeron said:

    "Judge 'concerned' Andy Coulson still at Belmarsh"
    Odd? There are plenty of prison places so it shouldn't need a Judge to inform the governor surely?

    To be fair to the Prison Governor and the Judge it is not general policy to move prisoners to lower cats who are facing further trials.

    I think in this instance the Judge wishes it to be known that the new trials won't be until the new year at the earliest and well after his HDC eligibility date.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    They still take astrology seriously in India. When my brother got married in India a couple of months back, both his and his wife's horoscopes had to "match", whatever that entails.
  • Richard_Nabavi
    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    They still take astrology seriously in India. When my brother got married in India a couple of months back, both his and his wife's horoscopes had to "match", whatever that entails.

    I think it entails paying a fee to an astrologer, does it not?
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    They still take astrology seriously in India. When my brother got married in India a couple of months back, both his and his wife's horoscopes had to "match", whatever that entails.

    I think it entails paying a fee to an astrologer, does it not?
    That's one factor, yes :)
  • Bond_James_Bond
    Bond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    edited July 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @RobD
    Apparently water has "memory".
    You find this out when you point out the mathematics of dilution.

    Presumably most homeopathic remedies contain - by homeopathy's lights - substantial tinctures of dinosaur piss?

    Quacks will probably always be with us. As we see with witchfinders, Malthusians, and climate alarmists, the features of the quackery alter remarkably little over time. There is a 1928 book called The Quacks of Old London (http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Quacks_of_Old_London_1928.html?id=B0F_si1EBgYC) which describes how quacks of yesteryear would invent both illnesses and cures. So you had quacks who would tell you that you had a nasty touch of the marthambles, the hockogrockle, or some other made-up disease, and would then sell you a cure for it.

    One thinks of Sarah Ferguson sitting under a blue plastic pyramid to rid herself of "toxins", or of suckers who think that tapping water on a bible turns it into medicine, and one has to conclude that there is one born every minute.
  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TheScreamingEagles
    Yes, the wheels of justice can grind exceedingly slowly.
    We are still waiting for a replacement for Lady Butler-Sloss?
  • Richard_Nabavi
    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Smarmeron said:


    We are still waiting for a replacement for Lady Butler-Sloss?

    I expect it will be very hard to find someone prepared to take on the job, since the baying hounds will immediately be after whoever is named.
  • Bond_James_Bond
    Bond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    Smarmeron said:

    @TheScreamingEagles
    Yes, the wheels of justice can grind exceedingly slowly.
    We are still waiting for a replacement for Lady Butler-Sloss?

    We'll never get another judge who's as good a painter as Lady Butler Sloss.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Scotland_Forever!.jpg
  • Bond_James_Bond
    Bond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    They still take astrology seriously in India. When my brother got married in India a couple of months back, both his and his wife's horoscopes had to "match", whatever that entails.

    I think it entails paying a fee to an astrologer, does it not?
    That's one factor, yes :)
    Doesn't the money also have to work?
  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Richard_Nabavi
    You would think that anyone of that level should be for justice, and unafraid of the press?
    Basic requirement of a Judge I would have thought?
  • Cyclefree
    Cyclefree Posts: 25,709
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Smarmeron said:


    We are still waiting for a replacement for Lady Butler-Sloss?

    I expect it will be very hard to find someone prepared to take on the job, since the baying hounds will immediately be after whoever is named.
    Probably on the grounds of that person's lack of suitable experience........since anyone with experience can surely be criticised for judgments given/statements made/positions adopted, not to mention connections - however tenuous - with anyone who might conceivably be investigated or interviewed.

  • oxfordsimon
    oxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    OT - Harriet Harman has been caught advertising for a new employee - at less than the London Living Wage that her boss was championing just this very day.

    We know that Harriet can afford it - so why doesn't she pay up?

    Named and shamed!

    http://owenjbennett.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/living-wage-not-if-you-want-to-work-for.html

    (admittedly the difference is not great - but even so, it is a classic bit of not-joined-up thinking)
  • Cyclefree
    Cyclefree Posts: 25,709
    Smarmeron said:

    @Richard_Nabavi
    You would think that anyone of that level should be for justice, and unafraid of the press?
    Basic requirement of a Judge I would have thought?

    Judges are not generally afraid of the press, true. But why take on a role that is not going to an easy one and also put up with a load of abuse. People have lives to lead. It was to Butler-Sloss's credit that at the age of 80 she was prepared to take on such work. Others might look at the grief she got and decide: "No - I've got better things to be doing".
  • Richard_Nabavi
    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Cyclefree said:

    Judges are not generally afraid of the press, true. But why take on a role that is not going to an easy one and also put up with a load of abuse. People have lives to lead. It was to Butler-Sloss's credit that at the age of 80 she was prepared to take on such work. Others might look at the grief she got and decide: "No - I've got better things to be doing".

    Yes, and of course they can be absolutely sure that not only they themselves, but also their families, will be subject to extremely disagreeable attention from the media.
  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Cyclefree
    " Others might look at the grief she got and decide: "No - I've got better things to be doing". "
    Better things to be doing? I didn't realise justice was a pick and mix affair?
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    Bond_James_Bond said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @RobD
    Apparently water has "memory".
    You find this out when you point out the mathematics of dilution.

    Presumably most homeopathic remedies contain - by homeopathy's lights - substantial tinctures of dinosaur piss?

    Quacks will probably always be with us. As we see with witchfinders, Malthusians, and climate alarmists, the features of the quackery alter remarkably little over time. There is a 1928 book called The Quacks of Old London (http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Quacks_of_Old_London_1928.html?id=B0F_si1EBgYC) which describes how quacks of yesteryear would invent both illnesses and cures. So you had quacks who would tell you that you had a nasty touch of the marthambles, the hockogrockle, or some other made-up disease, and would then sell you a cure for it.

    One thinks of Sarah Ferguson sitting under a blue plastic pyramid to rid herself of "toxins", or of suckers who think that tapping water on a bible turns it into medicine, and one has to conclude that there is one born every minute.
    Quite. If water did have a memory, surely it would be memory of other water given that 99.9999999999999999999% of the molecules in a homeopathic solution are water.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    Bond_James_Bond said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @TheScreamingEagles
    Yes, the wheels of justice can grind exceedingly slowly.
    We are still waiting for a replacement for Lady Butler-Sloss?

    We'll never get another judge who's as good a painter as Lady Butler Sloss.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Scotland_Forever!.jpg
    I think that is another Lady Butler ;)
  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Richard_Nabavi
    "Yes, and of course they can be absolutely sure that not only they themselves, but also their families, will be subject to extremely disagreeable attention from the media."

    Whereas the families of victims often get both the media and the police giving them "attention"?
  • oxfordsimon
    oxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    Smarmeron said:

    @Cyclefree
    " Others might look at the grief she got and decide: "No - I've got better things to be doing". "
    Better things to be doing? I didn't realise justice was a pick and mix affair?

    I would say putting yourself forward for months and months of intense scrutiny towards the end of your career is something that does require a lot of careful thought. I can imagine many people turning it down in favour of a quiet life. This has nothing to do with justice and everything about wanting to think of yourself and your family and friends in the face of a baying media and bandwagon-jumping MPs.

    We all want justice - but we have to accept that the media and parts of our political class make it very difficult.
  • JackW
    JackW Posts: 14,787
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    They still take astrology seriously in India. When my brother got married in India a couple of months back, both his and his wife's horoscopes had to "match", whatever that entails.

    I think it entails paying a fee to an astrologer, does it not?
    Fakir

  • Richard_Nabavi
    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Smarmeron said:

    @Richard_Nabavi
    "Yes, and of course they can be absolutely sure that not only they themselves, but also their families, will be subject to extremely disagreeable attention from the media."

    Whereas the families of victims often get both the media and the police giving them "attention"?

    I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make, if any, but feel free to apply for the job yourself.
  • Toms
    Toms Posts: 2,478
    MikeSmithson said:

    There must be a @LordAshcroft poll of key LAB target of Bedford coming up. My wife has just been phone polled

    OGH, I do hope she put in a good word for Mr. Gove.
  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @oxfordsimon
    We pay these people for stuff like this? It's like a soldier refusing to fight because he doesn't like the odds.
    Of course the soldier only gets paid a fraction, with the possibility of getting killed?
    "waddafookinhell" are we paying these frauds for again?
  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Richard_Nabavi
    Allow me to ellucidate

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/23/undercover-police-spied-on-families-de-menezes-groce-reel
  • Cyclefree
    Cyclefree Posts: 25,709
    Smarmeron said:

    @Cyclefree
    " Others might look at the grief she got and decide: "No - I've got better things to be doing". "
    Better things to be doing? I didn't realise justice was a pick and mix affair?

    A retired judge does not have to do these inquiries. The clue is in the word "retired". A working judge already has a caseload to deal with. So your suggestion that people are shirking their duty is both wrong and unfair.



  • Cyclefree
    Cyclefree Posts: 25,709
    Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    We pay these people for stuff like this? It's like a soldier refusing to fight because he doesn't like the odds.
    Of course the soldier only gets paid a fraction, with the possibility of getting killed?
    "waddafookinhell" are we paying these frauds for again?

    Try asking a retired soldier to go and fight. Add in a bit of abuse while you're about it.

    Then tell us how you got on.

  • oxfordsimon
    oxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    We pay these people for stuff like this? It's like a soldier refusing to fight because he doesn't like the odds.
    Of course the soldier only gets paid a fraction, with the possibility of getting killed?
    "waddafookinhell" are we paying these frauds for again?

    You clearly have no concept of how these things work.

    The appointment to head up any team such as the one under discussion is like any other job offer. Candidates are invited to consider the position - and are free to accept it (in which case they will get paid) or not (in which case they won't get paid)

    Everyone wants someone with a strong relevant CV and an understanding of the issues involved. Alongside that you have to find someone who is willing to take it on, is available to take it and who is willing to deal with the intense media and political scrutiny that will follow their appointment. And, of course, the successful candidate must also be able to show that they, or any of their relatives, don't have any possible stains that might have any connection to the issue of child abuse.

    If you think that is an easy job to fill, I am sure that the Home Office will be delighted to receive your detailed suggestions.
  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited July 2014
    Cyclefree
    "Try asking a retired soldier to go and fight"
    If they were "regulars", it is part of their contract.
  • Floater
    Floater Posts: 14,207
    SquareRoot said:

    I see there is an "identical twin" in thought and deed on the site this pm

    Exactly my thought too.
  • Richard_Nabavi
    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited July 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @Richard_Nabavi
    Allow me to ellucidate

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/23/undercover-police-spied-on-families-de-menezes-groce-reel

    Yes, clearly there are plenty of savings to be made in policing by getting them to concentrate on, you know, solving and preventing crime, which is good news. That's one reason why elected police commissioners are such a good idea. But I'm not why it's relevant to the suggestion that the baying of the media mob will put people off accepting this particular role.
  • peter_from_putney
    peter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    A great poll for the Tories, evidenced by a noticeable reduction in gloating from most of the usual suspects here - a couple more indicators like this over the next few days and the swingback projections from Stephen Fisher et al will start to look really interesting.
    What would really help the Blues further would be if the Greens were to nick a point or two from Labour. After a good result in the recent Euros they've fallen right back to 4% in this poll.
  • oxfordsimon
    oxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Richard_Nabavi
    Allow me to ellucidate

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/23/undercover-police-spied-on-families-de-menezes-groce-reel

    Yes, clearly there are plenty of savings to be made in policing by getting them to concentrate on, you know, solving and preventing crime, which is good news. That's one reason why elected police commissioners are such a good idea. But I'm not why it's relevant to the suggestion that the baying of the media mob will put people off accepting this particular role.
    Sadly relevance doesn't matter when you are a smear-merchant.

    I can fully understand why the Home Office seem to be having to take their time in finding the right person to head this up. They can't afford to find someone with anything in their own background (or that of their family and friends) that gives the pack something to attack.

  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Richard_Nabavi
    Because Richard, judges are supposed not to be swayed by such things...... Their interest is supposed to be the law and it's application.
    If our judges and politicians are frightened of the press, who looks after our interests?
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    The forces from above agree with me it seems !
  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited July 2014
    @oxfordsimon
    They have changed their minds now? They were damned quick to find Lady Butler-Sloss, and defend her to the hilt. Now it needs deep consideration if the judge might have a remote connection to the case.
    Are you saying it was a rushed "knee jerk" appointment now?
  • PBModerator
    PBModerator Posts: 666
    Marquee Mark.

    No more comments about Ed's weirdness in that context please.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MrHarryCole: That went well http://t.co/Rk3w9eyyPR
  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053
    Many more dead in Ukraine than in Gaza. Why no faugh outrage from the West or the leftist so called liberals full of conscience:

    David Coburn MEP ‏@DavidCoburnUKip 5m
    To let you know Ukraine 9-16 July, 1647 killed in action, 4300 wounded in action. Just one week @TurboHolborn
  • peter_from_putney
    peter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    Speaking of "appointments pending", it appears to be taking an inordinate amount of time to select the next Chairman of the BBC Trust, especially when one considers the manner in which Lord Patten was squeezed out - one might have thought that the powers that be already had a successor in mind, but apparently not.
    The lack of action does rather confirm one's suspicions that this is a total non-job but rather a pleasant and highly prestigious sinecure.
  • oxfordsimon
    oxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    They have changed their minds now? They were damned quick to find Lady Butler-Sloss, and defend her to the hilt. Now it needs deep consideration if the judge might have a remote connection to the case.
    Are you saying it was a rushed "knee jerk" appointment now?

    She was a very credible candidate. Distinguished career as a judge. Had chaired similar scale investigations in the past. A long-time interest in child protection issues.

    Should the possible actions of her brother have invalidated all of this?

    I don't think so - but in the current climate, her decision to withdraw was very understandable.

    The media frenzy surrounding all of this has made things more difficult for all involved.
  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053
    David Coburn MEP ‏@DavidCoburnUKip 18m
    To let you know 1,800 people died in Syrian Civil war this week

    The BBC is helping bring hatred of Israel to a new peak this week and of course the above is never even mentioned.
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    edited July 2014
    MikeK said:

    David Coburn MEP ‏@DavidCoburnUKip 18m
    To let you know 1,800 people died in Syrian Civil war this week

    I do wonder - did John Kerry's off the cuff response to the journalist keep Assad in power, and make ISIS thrive in Syria east of the Euphrates ?

    As significant an event as Blair and Bush heading off to war against Saddam, we are seeing the counter-factual to that play out in Syria right now ?!

    Hopefully Syria can sort itself out at some point and be rid of both ISIS and Assad. Doesn't look too hopeful right now though.
  • isam
    isam Posts: 42,205
    edited July 2014
    The ukip candidate for Witney?

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/charlie-brooks-preparing-to-stand-for-ukip-at-general-election-9627884.html
  • HurstLlama
    HurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Scott_P said:

    @MrHarryCole: That went well http://t.co/Rk3w9eyyPR

    I am given to understand, and my thanks to Mrs Fitalass, that that picture was taken of the big screen at Waterloo Station this evening. As the good lady noted, probably not the headline Miliband was after, but very funny nonetheless.

    http://t.co/Rk3w9eyyPR
  • volcanopete
    volcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Populus more in line with ICM.
  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053
    isam said:

    The ukip candidate for Witney?

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/charlie-brooks-preparing-to-stand-for-ukip-at-general-election-9627884.html

    It's news to me. Will Cammo be making more enemies of friends in his bid to stay in power?
  • Richard_Nabavi
    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    isam said:

    The ukip candidate for Witney?

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/charlie-brooks-preparing-to-stand-for-ukip-at-general-election-9627884.html

    I can't imagine UKIP will be so daft.
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    isam said:

    The ukip candidate for Witney?

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/charlie-brooks-preparing-to-stand-for-ukip-at-general-election-9627884.html

    I can't imagine UKIP will be so daft.
    Well they do have Neil Hamilton...

    Then again the Conservatives have David Tredinnick in their ranks.
  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053
    Pulpstar said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    isam said:

    The ukip candidate for Witney?

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/charlie-brooks-preparing-to-stand-for-ukip-at-general-election-9627884.html

    I can't imagine UKIP will be so daft.
    Well they do have Neil Hamilton...

    Then again the Conservatives have David Tredinnick in their ranks.
    Neil Hamilton has been a kipper a long time before UKIP ever had a band-wagon, and has proved a valuable member with political nous.
  • GIN1138
    GIN1138 Posts: 22,938
    It appears that Labour's had it!
  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053
    GIN1138 said:

    It appears that Labour's had it!

    Had what?
  • Scrapheap_as_was
    Scrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited July 2014
    Mrs Scrapheap, not a great pber despite her surprise present of Tory membership last year, shouts out to me in the office 'this speech that david miliband did today, or ed or whatever his name is, he said he doesn't do photo shoots but have you seen the audience behind him'?

    It was a brave and courageous speech I tell her... IDS2

    As someone once said a few times, women can spot a fake!
  • isam
    isam Posts: 42,205
    At 4:15 we have Enoch on "The war against terror"... At this time it was the IRA

    My reading is he would have voted against Iraq and Afghanistan... And what he would have made of Jean de Menezes murder, heaven only knows

    http://youtu.be/PAxOwJjoGXI
  • perdix
    perdix Posts: 1,806
    oxfordsimon said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Cyclefree
    " Others might look at the grief she got and decide: "No - I've got better things to be doing". "
    Better things to be doing? I didn't realise justice was a pick and mix affair?

    I would say putting yourself forward for months and months of intense scrutiny towards the end of your career is something that does require a lot of careful thought. I can imagine many people turning it down in favour of a quiet life. This has nothing to do with justice and everything about wanting to think of yourself and your family and friends in the face of a baying media and bandwagon-jumping MPs.

    We all want justice - but we have to accept that the media and parts of our political class make it very difficult.
    The problem with today's journalism in the printed press and the 24/7 commentary on TV and blogs is that everyone's so keen to fill space and make money that the feeding frenzy is the no pain (and no thinking) way to do it.

  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    edited July 2014
    @TSE one for nighthawks... Glorious British engineering:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/comedy/10985111/British-inventor-builds-giant-fart-machine-to-fire-at-France.html

    Enjoyed how it was listed under the Culture section... Titters.
  • Jonathan
    Jonathan Posts: 22,107
    Clever speech by Ed. Good to see him starting early.
  • volcanopete
    volcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Brian Reade offers essential political commentary for serious punters.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-up-fawlty-towers-3914463#.U9KgLbJ64Jw.twitter
  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @perdix
    It was a bit of an "open goal" appointing the sister of one of the possible key players?
    On top of which, you all seem to be saying she was frightened off by the press, as are all the other judges?
    We need some new judges with a more backbone then? Wasn't there a top legal mind who became free of his commitments just recently?
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2014
    There's another problem with the polls at the moment: the Greens are on 4 or 5% in a lot of them. But it's very unlikely it will even be possible for them to get that much because they won't have candidates in a lot of seats. In fact they've only selected about 30 candidates so far. The polls assume they'll have a candidate everywhere. They got 1% last time and I think they'll get about the same next time. So that's about 3 percentage points up for grabs. Of course Labour are likely to get the lion's share of it.
  • malcolmg
    malcolmg Posts: 44,523
    Pulpstar said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Pulpstar
    What is his prediction for the election results next year? ;-)

    The Sunil on Sunday's Mystic Smeg may have a new rival :)
    What is the prediction of Mystic Smeg ?

    I can add it to the list.
    She reckons:
    Lab 310
    Con 286
    LD 26
    UKIP 2
    Nats 8
    NI 18
    Quite pessimistic for the Nats - no gains for the SNP ?

    Shadsy is 6-5 on 6.5 unders if you fancy it, I'm on the other side of that bet @ 4-6 for a ton.
    shows how much he understands , have to say it is like most on here.
  • jayfdee
    jayfdee Posts: 618
    RobD said:

    @TSE one for nighthawks... Glorious British engineering:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/comedy/10985111/British-inventor-builds-giant-fart-machine-to-fire-at-France.html

    Enjoyed how it was listed under the Culture section... Titters.

    Yes this guy is amusing and has made numerous mad videos,but he is quite talented from a practical engineering POV,will probably kill himself one day.

  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Kerry praises the Egyptian government. Despite the fact they've just jailed western journalists.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2014
    The one thing I hoped never to see was what victims of a plane crash look like, but unfortunately I accidentally saw it a few days ago with MH17 thanks to new media.
  • peter_from_putney
    peter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    AndyJS said:

    There's another problem with the polls at the moment: the Greens are on 4 or 5% in a lot of them. But it's very unlikely it will even be possible for them to get that much because they won't have candidates in a lot of seats. In fact they've only selected about 30 candidates so far. The polls assume they'll have a candidate everywhere. They got 1% last time and I think they'll get about the same next time. So that's about 3 percentage points up for grabs. Of course Labour are likely to get the lion's share of it.

    Excellent point ..... and that's why the Greens will only win one seat at best and probably not even that.
  • MonikerDiCanio
    MonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    AndyJS said:

    Kerry praises the Egyptian government. Despite the fact they've just jailed western journalists.

    Every day useless Kerry's physical resemblance to George Washington grows, complete with 18th century wig. The comparison highlights the collapse in American prestige and standards.

  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Of course the polls ought to motivate the Greens to put up candidates everywhere. But there's no sign of it yet.
  • isam
    isam Posts: 42,205
    This kind of thing used to make the news in happier times for world peace

    http://www.thelocal.fr/20140724/french-cops-find-arsenal-on-london-bound-bus
  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited July 2014
    @SeanT

    Where are the western Journalists reporting from Syria or ISIS controlled Iraq this last fortnight?
    Nada! because they know if they cross a militant/terrorist they'll get their throat cut or at least their balls and tit's cut off, if they don't do what they want.

    Israel is the only country or nation in the Middle East that gives free access to Journalists to report what they wish. That they only want to report on civilian - or better yet for their 5 minutes on TV - child casualties, is now an aberration of war reporting. Try that stunt in Egypt or Iran and the reporter is in danger of life and limb.

    Sure Gaza is a prison of sorts. And who made it that way? The so called Palestinians themselves, by letting outlaws and gangsters rule them.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    Jonathan said:

    Clever speech by Ed. Good to see him starting early.

    Starting early on his concession...

    "I am crap. Vote for me..."
  • HurstLlama
    HurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    The one thing I hoped never to see was what victims of a plane crash look like, but unfortunately I accidentally saw it a few days ago with MH17 thanks to new media.

    It's a revolution in the way we see the world. There are no gatekeepers any more, no professionals mediating what we are allowed to see, for good or bad.

    I'm still not sure whether we will end up desensitised, or whether - hopefully - it will make wars much harder to fight, as the would-be conquerors will have to contend with a global online audience, ready to be outraged.
    The trouble is Mr. T. is that in a war there are at least two sides who want to be the would be conquerors. So perhaps both sides will be putting up harrowing images, some of which might even be genuine (see Snow's apology earlier today). Of course 90% of people who see such images will be those that want to be shocked and disgusted that is why they go to the sites that display them. Its just another version of pornography. So aside from the perverts who like to look at such images the effect will be virtually zero.
  • MonikerDiCanio
    MonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    MikeK said:

    @SeanT

    Where are the western Journalists reporting from Syria or ISIS controlled Iraq this last fortnight?
    Nada! because they know if they cross a militant/terrorist they'll get their throat cut or at least their balls and tit's cut off, if they don't do what they want.

    Israel is the only country or nation in the Middle East that gives free access to Journalists to report what they wish. That they only want to report on civilian - or better yet for their 5 minutes on TV - child casualties, is now an aberration of war reporting. Try that stunt in Egypt or Iran and the reporter is in danger of life and limb.

    Sure Gaza is a prison of sorts. And who made it that way? The so called Palestinians themselves, by letting outlaws and gangsters rule them.

    Talking of outlaws and gangsters ruling countries;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Shamir
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Good evening, everyone.

    F1: I grow tired of Tom Clarkson. Isn't there a talented Scottish F1 person who can replace him? [No sarcasm, since Gary Anderson left all the best BBC F1 team are Scots].

    In other news, I'm sure you all recall Caterham was recently taken over by a Swiss-Middle East consortium and sacked 40 people. Those 40 are now taking legal action:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28491380
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Ebola spreads to Lagos. Just one case, I think, confirmed so far:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28485041
  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Ebola spreads to Lagos. Just one case, I think, confirmed so far:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28485041

    That's a horrible disease, and it seems to be getting more virulent not less.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. K, aye, it's bloody awful. I hope this outbreak doesn't continue, and that all nations have contingency plans well in hand.
  • HurstLlama
    HurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    SeanT said:

    HurstLlama said:

    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    The one thing I hoped never to see was what victims of a plane crash look like, but unfortunately I accidentally saw it a few days ago with MH17 thanks to new media.

    It's a revolution in the way we see the world. There are no gatekeepers any more, no professionals mediating what we are allowed to see, for good or bad.

    I'm still not sure whether we will end up desensitised, or whether - hopefully - it will make wars much harder to fight, as the would-be conquerors will have to contend with a global online audience, ready to be outraged.
    The trouble is Mr. T. is that in a war there are at least two sides who want to be the would be conquerors. So perhaps both sides will be putting up harrowing images, some of which might even be genuine (see Snow's apology earlier today). Of course 90% of people who see such images will be those that want to be shocked and disgusted that is why they go to the sites that display them. Its just another version of pornography. So aside from the perverts who like to look at such images the effect will be virtually zero.
    Far too glib.

    The most famously accessible war, for journalists, prior to recent times, was the Vietnam war. This was also - not uncoincidentally - a war whose course was changed by a few iconic and harrowing images: specifically the "napalm girl", the GI Zippoing the VC village, the casual execution of a VC suspect by an SV general, etc

    In Vietnam a few photos and videos were so powerful, the American public withdrew its support for the war - and the USA was defeated.

    After Vietnam, governments around the world learned the lesson - no more freedom for journalists - and they made sure they ran the media narrative in any conflict, by restricting access for hacks. This is what Britain did in the Falklands (very effectively).

    But social media and the internet cannot be censored, so we are now back to a Vietnam style free-for-all, which means images and films from Gaza (and elsewhere) have regained their iconic power - as they flow to us, unmediated.
    You are right about the Vietnam footage having a big effect. You are also right that the world has turned since those days.

    The un-mediated images by which you seem to set such a store are not broadcast on the nine o'clock news. They are there on web sites for those who want to spend their leisure time looking at images of gore and dead bodies. At their very best such sites are propaganda to take in the credulous, but mostly they are just pornography catering for the seriously depraved.
  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053

    Must be enough genuine pics of Israel/Gaza victims without this poor woman, who managed to get hit in Syria and Gaza pic.twitter.com/9YlyZ5MyOn

    — Archbishop Cranmer (@His_Grace) July 23, 2014
  • HurstLlama
    HurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Ebola spreads to Lagos. Just one case, I think, confirmed so far:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28485041

    I have been following news of this out break for a couple of weeks now and have not been encouraged by how it has been dealt with. Now it has hit Lagos. That is somewhat less than seven hours from London. Scary stuff.
  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited July 2014
    Looks like Putin and Russia is sticking up more that two fingers to the EU and the US.
    "Fu*k you", He seems to be saying.

    I bet Kerry never ventures there even though the Ukrainian government is in a shambles this evening after the resignation of the prime minister, yesterday.

    AJELive ‏@AJELive 6m
    US says Russian troops massing near #Ukraine; Warns of "imminent" deployment of heavy artillery: http://aje.me/UyFFTu

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 3m
    Nato, Washington, even EU capitals know much of East Ukraine now under Russian control -- and will not be won back. Just won't admit it.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    New thread's up, incidentally.
  • HurstLlama
    HurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    SeanT said:



    Tedious, repetitive smearing below the radar there, but let's ignore that.

    If you think most people now get their news from the BBC at Nine, you are cognitively dysfunctional. People under 40 get their news from the Net - from Facebook Twitter and Instagram, etc. That's why Israel is losing the crucial PR war.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/why-israel-is-losing-the-american-media-war.html

    in the long run this will delegitimize Israel's very existence, which is why this Gazan campaign is such a stupid error (as well as a sadistic exercise in overkill)

    "Tedious, repetitive smearing below the radar there, but let's ignore that."

    I'd rather not actually, I had no intention of smearing anyone or any idea and the fact that I did it "below the radar", whatever that means, I find astonishing. Please could you tell me what I said that was so cleverly awful?

    As to the rest. Well, of course I don't think the majority of people get their main news from the set-piece television broadcasts, I was talking about the Vietnam era. I don't share your belief that most people rush off to look at gory photos, at least not more than once, and if they did then surely the counter is for the other side to put up their gory photos and videos but make them even worse.

    Then maybe we can get into a battle of the pornographers. Whose snuff movies are the most awful? How that would help I have no idea, but you seem to think its important.
  • Floater
    Floater Posts: 14,207
    oxfordsimon said:

    surbiton said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Miliband has to find a way to appear as if he could lead this country on the world stage. This speech does nothing to address that.

    His decision to chase a photo with Obama rather than speaking in the Commons about the Ukraine situation speaks volumes as to the priority he puts on image over substance.

    I have never, and probably never will, be able to picture Miliband standing outside No10 speaking for this nation.

    And until he can find a way of convincing enough people that this is something of which he is capable, his fate is the same as that of Foot and Kinnock.

    What practical stuff could he have done about Ukraine ? Britain's policy is to talk about sanctions as long as the City of London is not involved.

    They don't want to upset the Russian mafia !
    It is about being seen to do the right thing.

    If Cameron had disappeared off for a photoshoot with a foreign leader - Miliband would have been first to call it a disgrace.

    Miliband went off to get his photo taken with Obama rather than standing up in the Commons to be part of the public political condemnation of events in Ukraine.

    It is not about being practical - but it is about playing your role as Leader of the Opposition, and that includes taking part in important moments like the statement on Monday.

    He cared more about his own image than standing up as someone who aspires to being a statesman.

    Being PM takes a lot more than fan-girling Obama.
    Well said
This discussion has been closed.

Categories