Batley & Spen – What happened in the May locals ward by ward – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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Restrictions on foreign travel may be there for longer. Bizarrely, the Feb 2020 bans on UK and EU passengers still haven't been updated.rcs1000 said:
My wife and I are off to LACMA this morning, and then we'll go to the Farmer's Market for lunch. We'll carry masks, just in case, but don't anticipate needing them.rpjs said:
Pretty much the same here in the US north-east (except there are still Ubers but their rates have sky-rocketed). We’re just back from a vacation to Nantucket island (off the coast of Massachusetts) and wife’s home town of Narragansett, Rhode Island. Apart from where federal mandates still apply, such as the ferry to the island, mask wearing has become entirely optional. Some shops still have signs saying optional if fully vaxxed, but no-one’s checking. Some teenagers and younger children still wearing, but virtually no adults. It feels like the end phase is underway.rcs1000 said:Greetings from (mostly) completely reopened California.
95% of people on the street aren't wearing masks
80% of people in shops aren't wearing them.
Most shops and restaurants still require their employees to wear masks, presumably because until this week it was illegal to ask if an employee had been vaccinated.
There are no Ubers.
Public transport mask mandates are going to be the last thing to go, but even there I expect them to be gone by the end of the Summer.0 -
Yes, though proper PPE procedures need to be followed. Just because methods are imperfect doesn't mean that we should let the virus run rampant.alex_ said:
If large chunks of it simply CANNOT be socially distanced, is there really that much benefit in trying to maintain restrictive measures where they can - given the damage it does to wider healthcare provision?Foxy said:
In part it is that much medical and nursing care cannot be socially distanced, in part the numbers of staff moving around, the generally poor ventilation in many areas and in part the number of vulnerable patients.Black_Rook said:
Why are hospitals incapable of controlling this infection effectively? Is the virus so hard to contain that the task is impossible?Foxy said:
While certainly the SD rules are a major drag on productivity, it is worth noting that waiting lists were growing even with normal productivity prior to the first lockdown.alex_ said:I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).
I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.
I don't think that we can be rid of them though. We are seeing significant outbreaks again acquired in hospital.0 -
I think we know vastly more about it now, it’s just that we have never really updated guidance. Hand washing and sanitising, constant cleaning of stuff, is trivial compared to the risks of aerosol transmission. You can argue that it does no harm, but I’m less sure. It adds to the fear factor that is driving over 60% of people to be prepared to keep restrictions beyond 19th July. It is surely overkill in most situations. My cricket league insists on sanitising our hands every six overs. I’d love to see the evidence behind that. And why 6, and not 5 or 10? Most things seem to be gut instinct or frankly just plucked from thin air. I have decried the insanity of certain things at our uni, such as one way routes in mostly empty buildings, but it’s easier to pander. Last week our head of department emailed us all to keep complying with the one way system as there had been concerns raised. By who? I suspect people who have only just come back to campus after 15 months. Madness.alex_ said:
"Interesting", or verging on criminal (either that this isn't reasonably certainly known to a material level, or that the Government has done such a poor job of communicating it)?FrancisUrquhart said:It is interesting after 15 months of this pandemic we still aren't totally sure about transmission vectors.
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Anecdotages
A friend of mine has just texted me to say he's been on the phone with his middle aged, eccentric, arty but generally sane sister who spent half an hour "shouting and crying and demanding he refuse the vaccine"
A week ago a friend told me her brother in law (husband's brother) spent the entirety of a supper party in wrenching sobs because "my whole family is going to die from the jabs"
Where the fuck does this stuff come from, and why is it so tenacious?!0 -
Old Paul Merton joke.IshmaelZ said:
Hospitals always meanz infections cos infections are what you get if you put lots of infectious people all in one big building.Black_Rook said:
Why are hospitals incapable of controlling this infection effectively? Is the virus so hard to contain that the task is impossible?Foxy said:
While certainly the SD rules are a major drag on productivity, it is worth noting that waiting lists were growing even with normal productivity prior to the first lockdown.alex_ said:I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).
I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.
I don't think that we can be rid of them though. We are seeing significant outbreaks again acquired in hospital.
Many more people die in hospital than fast food joints.
So when I feel ill I go to Spud u like.0 -
A significant chunk of the anti-vax stuff comes from Russian troll farms.Leon said:Anecdotages
A friend of mine has just texted me to say he's been on the phone with his middle aged, eccentric, arty but generally sane sister who spent half an hour "shouting and crying and demanding he refuse the vaccine"
A week ago a friend told me her brother in law (husband's brother) spent the entirety of a supper party in wrenching sobs because "my whole family is going to die from the jabs"
Where the fuck does this stuff come from, and why is it so tenacious?!1 -
There is no call for that - they are only doing there job. However the lack of logic in places is maddening. (Can’t remember who, but the being made to follow a one way route in an empty room to the loo is just insane.)Foxy said:
It is mostly airborne, particularly indoors, that much has been obvious for some time.FrancisUrquhart said:It is interesting after 15 months of this pandemic we still aren't totally sure about transmission vectors.
I follow the mask rules and SD rules indoors both at work and leisure, this morning in Church, at lunch with Fox Jr, and running some shopping errands.
This is not just for my protection, but those around me. Another major driver is that I have seen our HCAs and receptionists in tears from being abused by members of the public when instructing them of the rules. It is only polite and good manners to not put staff in shops and restaurants etc in a similar awkward and uncomfortable position.0 -
The Tories aren't progressive. And that isn't what the WWC red wallers want. They actively sought and voted for regressive politics. They're not booing the England team taking the knee because they want progressive politics.algarkirk said:
The C&A result is an ancient type of byelection result, with little evidence that it is about being despised and loads of evidence that it's about how to vote at byelections. Massive anti governments swings are common where the circumstances are right, and are usually altered back over time or by the next election. The new trend is the government winning against the opposition. The Tories are in with a chance (less chance than the bookies say) with this yet again.Foxy said:
Yes, I think that does explain the C and A result, people won't vote for those that despise them.Cookie said:
There was a similar article in Unherd a couple of days ago, which concluded with a similar point:beentheredonethat said:
Reading the grauniad comments I am struck by the wide division between those who accept the article has validity and those who absolutely refuse their reality. It rather makes Mr. Freedlands point for him.isam said:He has absolutely nailed it here. Describes almost every avid Remainer I know (as in know on the internet)
"Here in Britain, Labour is lumped in with a “big blob” of its own. Too often a loud part of that blob sounds like either a select priesthood, speaking to itself about questions that would strike most people as abstract angels-on-a-pinhead theology, or a self-appointed police force dispensing constant, scolding judgment, wagging its finger at the latest supposed infraction of progressive standards. It’s exhausting and so unappealing that even a serially dishonest and incompetent government – but one that seems to accept you, your country and your way of life without pursed-lipped judgment – seems preferable by comparison."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/18/byelection-johnson-progressive-alliance-educated-middle-class
People will often put up with being ruled by people who cheat them, or lie to them, or who mismanage the country - as recent polls illustrate. But they won't put up with being ruled by people who openly despise them.
https://unherd.com/2021/06/the-self-loathing-of-britains-elites/
The collapse of the non big urban (London) blue wall is massively overstated. Look at the map as a whole rather than a few interesting cases.
Freedland is excellent but still manages to take for granted that Labour is the right answer to the progressive cause. Maybe it isn't. Maybe the Tories are the most progressive party around.
If Labour stood where the Tories stand about the aspirational middling sort I would vote for them in GEs as I do in local elections. But nationally they are a crowd of uncommunicating enclaves of special interest groups who patronise people like me.0 -
Yet in Israel, normality has completely resumed - with the exception of the occasional flare up in ultra Orthodox communities.alex_ said:I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).
I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.0 -
Then it is a bit of an own goal, as the Russians are amongst the most vax-hesitant, and will suffer therebyrcs1000 said:
A significant chunk of the anti-vax stuff comes from Russian troll farms.Leon said:Anecdotages
A friend of mine has just texted me to say he's been on the phone with his middle aged, eccentric, arty but generally sane sister who spent half an hour "shouting and crying and demanding he refuse the vaccine"
A week ago a friend told me her brother in law (husband's brother) spent the entirety of a supper party in wrenching sobs because "my whole family is going to die from the jabs"
Where the fuck does this stuff come from, and why is it so tenacious?!0 -
Third time in 2 years....
BBC News - Conservative councillor's house set on fire in third attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-575453250 -
I know. It was a mistake to put Drakeford in goal, obviously.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He will be ignored and indeed there are less masks being worn and social distancing is disappearingalex_ said:I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).
I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.
He is becoming extremely unpopular here in North Wales with local firms taking him to Court over their competitors In England which are open and he is trying to bring in a tourist tax, notwithstanding covid having decimated the industry
And Wales 1 down1 -
That's a red0
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Hence why things like this:Leon said:
Then it is a bit of an own goal, as the Russians are amongst the most vax-hesitant, and will suffer therebyrcs1000 said:
A significant chunk of the anti-vax stuff comes from Russian troll farms.Leon said:Anecdotages
A friend of mine has just texted me to say he's been on the phone with his middle aged, eccentric, arty but generally sane sister who spent half an hour "shouting and crying and demanding he refuse the vaccine"
A week ago a friend told me her brother in law (husband's brother) spent the entirety of a supper party in wrenching sobs because "my whole family is going to die from the jabs"
Where the fuck does this stuff come from, and why is it so tenacious?!
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/18/moscow-hospitals-to-limit-treatment-to-vaccinated-patients-a742580 -
Never a sending off.
If it is, every game it will be 9 aside.0 -
Yep looks like a red card offence to me.0
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America and Russia mainly.Leon said:Anecdotages
A friend of mine has just texted me to say he's been on the phone with his middle aged, eccentric, arty but generally sane sister who spent half an hour "shouting and crying and demanding he refuse the vaccine"
A week ago a friend told me her brother in law (husband's brother) spent the entirety of a supper party in wrenching sobs because "my whole family is going to die from the jabs"
Where the fuck does this stuff come from, and why is it so tenacious?!
Belief in insane notions on a widespread scale are no longer fringe causes that we can laugh at or dismiss. People will believe anything if "people they trust" are their sources. And the dissemination of material on social media is often so professionally done, so convincing to a mind pre-disposed to mistrust authority that it is often almost impossible to pushback. Because everyone "does their own research", and to such an extent that anybody challenging them is too easily picked apart on minor facts that (in the eye of the believer) discredits any arguments they might subsequently put forward.2 -
Indeed they are essentially artificial plastic walls. As Francis says, I hope someone has a sensible recycling plan for them. Perspex is a useful material for the householder - give them away free if you are willing to pick them up? I have some. The thought that they end up in landfill along with millions of masks horrifies me.turbotubbs said:Probably one of the worst attempts to prevent transmission as they hinder free movement of air.
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Awful. The councillor claims organised crime are after him after a planning decision...FrancisUrquhart said:Third time in 2 years....
BBC News - Conservative councillor's house set on fire in third attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-575453250 -
Sigh.turbotubbs said:Probably one of the worst attempts to prevent transmission as they hinder free movement of air.
There is now an enormous amount of evidence that masks work, because they prevent people who have it from spreading it to others. They are supposed to hinder the free movement of air.1 -
Ulsterization.FrancisUrquhart said:Third time in 2 years....
BBC News - Conservative councillor's house set on fire in third attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-575453250 -
Nice try, but you may be making some assumptions about what progress is about that aren't shared by the middling sort. Some people think virtue signalling is never progressive, but helping and supporting people is.RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't progressive. And that isn't what the WWC red wallers want. They actively sought and voted for regressive politics. They're not booing the England team taking the knee because they want progressive politics.algarkirk said:
The C&A result is an ancient type of byelection result, with little evidence that it is about being despised and loads of evidence that it's about how to vote at byelections. Massive anti governments swings are common where the circumstances are right, and are usually altered back over time or by the next election. The new trend is the government winning against the opposition. The Tories are in with a chance (less chance than the bookies say) with this yet again.Foxy said:
Yes, I think that does explain the C and A result, people won't vote for those that despise them.Cookie said:
There was a similar article in Unherd a couple of days ago, which concluded with a similar point:beentheredonethat said:
Reading the grauniad comments I am struck by the wide division between those who accept the article has validity and those who absolutely refuse their reality. It rather makes Mr. Freedlands point for him.isam said:He has absolutely nailed it here. Describes almost every avid Remainer I know (as in know on the internet)
"Here in Britain, Labour is lumped in with a “big blob” of its own. Too often a loud part of that blob sounds like either a select priesthood, speaking to itself about questions that would strike most people as abstract angels-on-a-pinhead theology, or a self-appointed police force dispensing constant, scolding judgment, wagging its finger at the latest supposed infraction of progressive standards. It’s exhausting and so unappealing that even a serially dishonest and incompetent government – but one that seems to accept you, your country and your way of life without pursed-lipped judgment – seems preferable by comparison."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/18/byelection-johnson-progressive-alliance-educated-middle-class
People will often put up with being ruled by people who cheat them, or lie to them, or who mismanage the country - as recent polls illustrate. But they won't put up with being ruled by people who openly despise them.
https://unherd.com/2021/06/the-self-loathing-of-britains-elites/
The collapse of the non big urban (London) blue wall is massively overstated. Look at the map as a whole rather than a few interesting cases.
Freedland is excellent but still manages to take for granted that Labour is the right answer to the progressive cause. Maybe it isn't. Maybe the Tories are the most progressive party around.
If Labour stood where the Tories stand about the aspirational middling sort I would vote for them in GEs as I do in local elections. But nationally they are a crowd of uncommunicating enclaves of special interest groups who patronise people like me.
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Add to which, the building will also be full of people with compromised immune systems.IshmaelZ said:
Hospitals always meanz infections cos infections are what you get if you put lots of infectious people all in one big building.Black_Rook said:
Why are hospitals incapable of controlling this infection effectively? Is the virus so hard to contain that the task is impossible?Foxy said:
While certainly the SD rules are a major drag on productivity, it is worth noting that waiting lists were growing even with normal productivity prior to the first lockdown.alex_ said:I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).
I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.
I don't think that we can be rid of them though. We are seeing significant outbreaks again acquired in hospital.0 -
You show your studs at this level you are playing with fire. Hope Wales can hang on and avoid a shellacking. But the card is fair.0
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Out of curiosity, what are you planning to do with them?Anabobazina said:
Indeed they are essentially artificial plastic walls. As Francis says, I hope someone has a sensible recycling plan for them. Perspex is a useful material for the householder - give them away free if you are willing to pick them up? I have some. The thought that they end up in landfill along with millions of masks horrifies me.turbotubbs said:Probably one of the worst attempts to prevent transmission as they hinder free movement of air.
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Well McDonald's clearly doesn't think that COVID is going to scare the UK public into healthier lifestyles....
BBC News - McDonald's to hire 20,000 staff and open 50 outlets
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-575442350 -
If it isn't a red, it should be. It was a deliberate attempt to hurt and injure another player, he had plenty of time to pull away from the challenge, he was nowhere near the ballFrancisUrquhart said:Never a sending off.
If it is, every game it will be 9 aside.
UEFA sees it as a red, and well done them0 -
Does Putin really care?Leon said:
Then it is a bit of an own goal, as the Russians are amongst the most vax-hesitant, and will suffer therebyrcs1000 said:
A significant chunk of the anti-vax stuff comes from Russian troll farms.Leon said:Anecdotages
A friend of mine has just texted me to say he's been on the phone with his middle aged, eccentric, arty but generally sane sister who spent half an hour "shouting and crying and demanding he refuse the vaccine"
A week ago a friend told me her brother in law (husband's brother) spent the entirety of a supper party in wrenching sobs because "my whole family is going to die from the jabs"
Where the fuck does this stuff come from, and why is it so tenacious?!0 -
So what help and support for the victims of racism do the boo-ers engage in?algarkirk said:
Nice try, but you may be making some assumptions about what progress is about that aren't shared by the middling sort. Some people think virtue signalling is never progressive, but helping and supporting people is.RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't progressive. And that isn't what the WWC red wallers want. They actively sought and voted for regressive politics. They're not booing the England team taking the knee because they want progressive politics.algarkirk said:
The C&A result is an ancient type of byelection result, with little evidence that it is about being despised and loads of evidence that it's about how to vote at byelections. Massive anti governments swings are common where the circumstances are right, and are usually altered back over time or by the next election. The new trend is the government winning against the opposition. The Tories are in with a chance (less chance than the bookies say) with this yet again.Foxy said:
Yes, I think that does explain the C and A result, people won't vote for those that despise them.Cookie said:
There was a similar article in Unherd a couple of days ago, which concluded with a similar point:beentheredonethat said:
Reading the grauniad comments I am struck by the wide division between those who accept the article has validity and those who absolutely refuse their reality. It rather makes Mr. Freedlands point for him.isam said:He has absolutely nailed it here. Describes almost every avid Remainer I know (as in know on the internet)
"Here in Britain, Labour is lumped in with a “big blob” of its own. Too often a loud part of that blob sounds like either a select priesthood, speaking to itself about questions that would strike most people as abstract angels-on-a-pinhead theology, or a self-appointed police force dispensing constant, scolding judgment, wagging its finger at the latest supposed infraction of progressive standards. It’s exhausting and so unappealing that even a serially dishonest and incompetent government – but one that seems to accept you, your country and your way of life without pursed-lipped judgment – seems preferable by comparison."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/18/byelection-johnson-progressive-alliance-educated-middle-class
People will often put up with being ruled by people who cheat them, or lie to them, or who mismanage the country - as recent polls illustrate. But they won't put up with being ruled by people who openly despise them.
https://unherd.com/2021/06/the-self-loathing-of-britains-elites/
The collapse of the non big urban (London) blue wall is massively overstated. Look at the map as a whole rather than a few interesting cases.
Freedland is excellent but still manages to take for granted that Labour is the right answer to the progressive cause. Maybe it isn't. Maybe the Tories are the most progressive party around.
If Labour stood where the Tories stand about the aspirational middling sort I would vote for them in GEs as I do in local elections. But nationally they are a crowd of uncommunicating enclaves of special interest groups who patronise people like me.0 -
In Sunday League football known as a solid challenge....Anabobazina said:You show your studs at this level you are playing with fire. Hope Wales can hang on and avoid a shellacking. But the card is fair.
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Think he's talking about perspex screens.rcs1000 said:
Sigh.turbotubbs said:Probably one of the worst attempts to prevent transmission as they hinder free movement of air.
There is now an enormous amount of evidence that masks work, because they prevent people who have it from spreading it to others. They are supposed to hinder the free movement of air.0 -
Again, the risk here is that it never goes away: we've had PHE today catastrophising about yet more lockdowns in the Winter, based on the NHS can't cope with other respiratory diseases on top of Covid excuse that some of us have been predicting would be used for some time.rcs1000 said:
Yet in Israel, normality has completely resumed - with the exception of the occasional flare up in ultra Orthodox communities.alex_ said:I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).
I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.
We'll, I suppose if that happens then it won't go on forever, because the collapse in confidence and the need for annual bailouts of large parts of the economy will eventually bankrupt us. Doesn't mean that it might not keep happening for several years first though.0 -
Cracking Scotch experting, Gromit.Black_Rook said:
Ulsterization.FrancisUrquhart said:Third time in 2 years....
BBC News - Conservative councillor's house set on fire in third attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-575453250 -
Oi! I’m not talking about masks... I was referring to plastic screens.rcs1000 said:
Sigh.turbotubbs said:Probably one of the worst attempts to prevent transmission as they hinder free movement of air.
There is now an enormous amount of evidence that masks work, because they prevent people who have it from spreading it to others. They are supposed to hinder the free movement of air.0 -
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And up you pop with your classic, famous grouse.Theuniondivvie said:
Cracking Scotch experting, Gromit.Black_Rook said:
Ulsterization.FrancisUrquhart said:Third time in 2 years....
BBC News - Conservative councillor's house set on fire in third attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-575453250 -
A challenge like that in Sunday league football would probably result in 3 red cards. One for the challenge, and a couple more as a result of the ensuing melee. So I suppose you're right about games ending with 9 men!FrancisUrquhart said:
In Sunday League football known as a solid challenge....Anabobazina said:You show your studs at this level you are playing with fire. Hope Wales can hang on and avoid a shellacking. But the card is fair.
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Is there a disproportionate amound of athletes born in another country?Andy_JS said:Why is it that so often British sports stars were born in another country, like tennis player Cameron Norrie who was born in South Africa? Being born in the UK seems to inoculate many people against sporting success.
15% of the people in this country were born in another. Some of those reasonably ought to be athletes.0 -
Yep it’s a red for me. Wales should be okay because of the Turkish goal. That’s a huge goal for them.Leon said:
If it isn't a red, it should be. It was a deliberate attempt to hurt and injure another player, he had plenty of time to pull away from the challenge, he was nowhere near the ballFrancisUrquhart said:Never a sending off.
If it is, every game it will be 9 aside.
UEFA sees it as a red, and well done them0 -
Hopefully one of the very few "positives" from the coronavirus experience will be better understanding of personal and public health and hygiene.turbotubbs said:
I think we know vastly more about it now, it’s just that we have never really updated guidance. Hand washing and sanitising, constant cleaning of stuff, is trivial compared to the risks of aerosol transmission. You can argue that it does no harm, but I’m less sure. It adds to the fear factor that is driving over 60% of people to be prepared to keep restrictions beyond 19th July. It is surely overkill in most situations. My cricket league insists on sanitising our hands every six overs. I’d love to see the evidence behind that. And why 6, and not 5 or 10? Most things seem to be gut instinct or frankly just plucked from thin air. I have decried the insanity of certain things at our uni, such as one way routes in mostly empty buildings, but it’s easier to pander. Last week our head of department emailed us all to keep complying with the one way system as there had been concerns raised. By who? I suspect people who have only just come back to campus after 15 months. Madness.
Washing hands, sanitising surfaces and people being personally responsible for their own health and understanding how easily they can spread infections to others aren't negative or repressive or attacks on our freedoms.
If we can reduce the time lost through illness by reducing the threat of infection, that will be a positive economic benefit.0 -
I don't think that's true at all. TheCDC page is regularly updated as new information has come in, and references a lot of pretty good academic research.FrancisUrquhart said:
No, I don't think the scientific community around the world are sure. Hence why lots of different rules and regs,.often contradictory to other places.alex_ said:
"Interesting", or verging on criminal (either that this isn't reasonably certainly known to a material level, or that the Government has done such a poor job of communicating it)?FrancisUrquhart said:It is interesting after 15 months of this pandemic we still aren't totally sure about transmission vectors.
The issue is more than government health advice tends to lag scientific advice, and there's very little walking back of previous guidance, because that might "cause confusion".
We now know, for example, that fomites (i.e. droplets on surfaces) are not a major transmission vector. So, all that hand sanitising is probably not making a significant dent in case numbers. We also know that CV19 can hang around in the air for a long time relative to some other viruses.0 -
I think probably until the final.Anabobazina said:0 -
He is!alex_ said:
Think he's talking about perspex screens.rcs1000 said:
Sigh.turbotubbs said:Probably one of the worst attempts to prevent transmission as they hinder free movement of air.
There is now an enormous amount of evidence that masks work, because they prevent people who have it from spreading it to others. They are supposed to hinder the free movement of air.0 -
When this stupid thing is over
No more PPE for me
When I get these silly masks off
Oh, how happy I will be.
No more Susan Michie squeaking
No more begging for a pass
If I see that Commie bastard
I’ll shove her figures up her arse.2 -
Can imagine the caterwauling we'd get the first time some Unionist nut decided to torch an SNP politician's house. Still, one rule for one lot, a different rule for the other lot, eh?Theuniondivvie said:
Cracking Scotch experting, Gromit.Black_Rook said:
Ulsterization.FrancisUrquhart said:Third time in 2 years....
BBC News - Conservative councillor's house set on fire in third attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-575453250 -
Screamers going in in the other game.0
-
You Teachers are all the same.ydoethur said:
And up you pop with your classic, famous grouse.Theuniondivvie said:
Cracking Scotch experting, Gromit.Black_Rook said:
Ulsterization.FrancisUrquhart said:Third time in 2 years....
BBC News - Conservative councillor's house set on fire in third attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-575453250 -
One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...0 -
Until the Bells goes.Foxy said:
You Teachers are all the same.ydoethur said:
And up you pop with your classic, famous grouse.Theuniondivvie said:
Cracking Scotch experting, Gromit.Black_Rook said:
Ulsterization.FrancisUrquhart said:Third time in 2 years....
BBC News - Conservative councillor's house set on fire in third attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-575453251 -
It's fucking infuriating.FrancisUrquhart said:It is interesting after 15 months of this pandemic we still aren't totally sure about transmission vectors.
Foolishly I would have thought this would have been pretty high up the research list after vaccine but apparently no scientist cares how it spreads.0 -
They are great for putting in front of recipe books to stop them getting covered in food/cooking oils. They are also good for putting over herbs in the late autumn - extends the season (they act as a sort of mini greenhouse!)ydoethur said:
Out of curiosity, what are you planning to do with them?Anabobazina said:
Indeed they are essentially artificial plastic walls. As Francis says, I hope someone has a sensible recycling plan for them. Perspex is a useful material for the householder - give them away free if you are willing to pick them up? I have some. The thought that they end up in landfill along with millions of masks horrifies me.turbotubbs said:Probably one of the worst attempts to prevent transmission as they hinder free movement of air.
2 -
So Conway goes after the first fifty of the match.
Hard to see anything other than a draw however unless one side or another suffers a truly spectacular implosion.0 -
What do the Russian trolls stand to gain from this?rcs1000 said:
A significant chunk of the anti-vax stuff comes from Russian troll farms.Leon said:Anecdotages
A friend of mine has just texted me to say he's been on the phone with his middle aged, eccentric, arty but generally sane sister who spent half an hour "shouting and crying and demanding he refuse the vaccine"
A week ago a friend told me her brother in law (husband's brother) spent the entirety of a supper party in wrenching sobs because "my whole family is going to die from the jabs"
Where the fuck does this stuff come from, and why is it so tenacious?!
Half a million Russians are dead due to this pandemic. Why is a pandemic spreading and vaccines being refused good for Russia? Are they seeking to wipe out the elderly on purpose?0 -
I don't know if it's true or not, but one does also seem to get the impression that the scientific advisers in one country seem surprisingly reluctant to draw on evidence from others. Hence "every country going their own way".rcs1000 said:
I don't think that's true at all. TheCDC page is regularly updated as new information has come in, and references a lot of pretty good academic research.FrancisUrquhart said:
No, I don't think the scientific community around the world are sure. Hence why lots of different rules and regs,.often contradictory to other places.alex_ said:
"Interesting", or verging on criminal (either that this isn't reasonably certainly known to a material level, or that the Government has done such a poor job of communicating it)?FrancisUrquhart said:It is interesting after 15 months of this pandemic we still aren't totally sure about transmission vectors.
The issue is more than government health advice tends to lag scientific advice, and there's very little walking back of previous guidance, because that might "cause confusion".
We now know, for example, that fomites (i.e. droplets on surfaces) are not a major transmission vector. So, all that hand sanitising is probably not making a significant dent in case numbers. We also know that CV19 can hang around in the air for a long time relative to some other viruses.
Except for things which are clearly political measures not backed up by any particular scientific evidence (eg. rule of six, curfews etc etc)0 -
See multiple posts above (below). We do know, its just that Regulations etc are never changed or walked back because ‘too confusing’.Alistair said:
It's fucking infuriating.FrancisUrquhart said:It is interesting after 15 months of this pandemic we still aren't totally sure about transmission vectors.
Foolishly I would have thought this would have been pretty high up the research list after vaccine but apparently no scientist cares how it spreads.0 -
I'm happy to call out pointless virtue signalling - the endless "clap for the NHS" crap as an example. But in this case the only people that they want to help and support are themselvesalgarkirk said:
Nice try, but you may be making some assumptions about what progress is about that aren't shared by the middling sort. Some people think virtue signalling is never progressive, but helping and supporting people is.RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't progressive. And that isn't what the WWC red wallers want. They actively sought and voted for regressive politics. They're not booing the England team taking the knee because they want progressive politics.algarkirk said:
The C&A result is an ancient type of byelection result, with little evidence that it is about being despised and loads of evidence that it's about how to vote at byelections. Massive anti governments swings are common where the circumstances are right, and are usually altered back over time or by the next election. The new trend is the government winning against the opposition. The Tories are in with a chance (less chance than the bookies say) with this yet again.Foxy said:
Yes, I think that does explain the C and A result, people won't vote for those that despise them.Cookie said:
There was a similar article in Unherd a couple of days ago, which concluded with a similar point:beentheredonethat said:
Reading the grauniad comments I am struck by the wide division between those who accept the article has validity and those who absolutely refuse their reality. It rather makes Mr. Freedlands point for him.isam said:He has absolutely nailed it here. Describes almost every avid Remainer I know (as in know on the internet)
"Here in Britain, Labour is lumped in with a “big blob” of its own. Too often a loud part of that blob sounds like either a select priesthood, speaking to itself about questions that would strike most people as abstract angels-on-a-pinhead theology, or a self-appointed police force dispensing constant, scolding judgment, wagging its finger at the latest supposed infraction of progressive standards. It’s exhausting and so unappealing that even a serially dishonest and incompetent government – but one that seems to accept you, your country and your way of life without pursed-lipped judgment – seems preferable by comparison."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/18/byelection-johnson-progressive-alliance-educated-middle-class
People will often put up with being ruled by people who cheat them, or lie to them, or who mismanage the country - as recent polls illustrate. But they won't put up with being ruled by people who openly despise them.
https://unherd.com/2021/06/the-self-loathing-of-britains-elites/
The collapse of the non big urban (London) blue wall is massively overstated. Look at the map as a whole rather than a few interesting cases.
Freedland is excellent but still manages to take for granted that Labour is the right answer to the progressive cause. Maybe it isn't. Maybe the Tories are the most progressive party around.
If Labour stood where the Tories stand about the aspirational middling sort I would vote for them in GEs as I do in local elections. But nationally they are a crowd of uncommunicating enclaves of special interest groups who patronise people like me.0 -
Eh? It's day 2!ydoethur said:So Conway goes after the first fifty of the match.
Hard to see anything other than a draw however unless one side or another suffers a truly spectacular implosion.
(I haven't checked the rules, but is there some provision about first innings lead winning in the event of a draw? Which would explain NZ cautious approach to date).0 -
A sad position he finds himself in, all he can do is protect himself, which in a small way will help protect them.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...0 -
There’s an extra day if they need it!ydoethur said:So Conway goes after the first fifty of the match.
Hard to see anything other than a draw however unless one side or another suffers a truly spectacular implosion.0 -
Your comment @RochdalePioneers exemplifies - consciously or unconsciously - why Labour is having problems with WWC Red Wallers. Your assumption that “they actively sought and voted for regressive politics” is the - pardon the pun - Black and White view that is taken by groups such as BLM ie if you are not with us, you are against you. While there are undoubted racists, there are also a lot who sit in the Grey zone - they recognise racism exists and dislike it but don’t like being told they are privileged and / or “deserve” to be discriminated against because of their whiteness, especially as many of them are poor themselves.RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't progressive. And that isn't what the WWC red wallers want. They actively sought and voted for regressive politics. They're not booing the England team taking the knee because they want progressive politics.algarkirk said:
The C&A result is an ancient type of byelection result, with little evidence that it is about being despised and loads of evidence that it's about how to vote at byelections. Massive anti governments swings are common where the circumstances are right, and are usually altered back over time or by the next election. The new trend is the government winning against the opposition. The Tories are in with a chance (less chance than the bookies say) with this yet again.Foxy said:
Yes, I think that does explain the C and A result, people won't vote for those that despise them.Cookie said:
There was a similar article in Unherd a couple of days ago, which concluded with a similar point:beentheredonethat said:
Reading the grauniad comments I am struck by the wide division between those who accept the article has validity and those who absolutely refuse their reality. It rather makes Mr. Freedlands point for him.isam said:He has absolutely nailed it here. Describes almost every avid Remainer I know (as in know on the internet)
"Here in Britain, Labour is lumped in with a “big blob” of its own. Too often a loud part of that blob sounds like either a select priesthood, speaking to itself about questions that would strike most people as abstract angels-on-a-pinhead theology, or a self-appointed police force dispensing constant, scolding judgment, wagging its finger at the latest supposed infraction of progressive standards. It’s exhausting and so unappealing that even a serially dishonest and incompetent government – but one that seems to accept you, your country and your way of life without pursed-lipped judgment – seems preferable by comparison."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/18/byelection-johnson-progressive-alliance-educated-middle-class
People will often put up with being ruled by people who cheat them, or lie to them, or who mismanage the country - as recent polls illustrate. But they won't put up with being ruled by people who openly despise them.
https://unherd.com/2021/06/the-self-loathing-of-britains-elites/
The collapse of the non big urban (London) blue wall is massively overstated. Look at the map as a whole rather than a few interesting cases.
Freedland is excellent but still manages to take for granted that Labour is the right answer to the progressive cause. Maybe it isn't. Maybe the Tories are the most progressive party around.
If Labour stood where the Tories stand about the aspirational middling sort I would vote for them in GEs as I do in local elections. But nationally they are a crowd of uncommunicating enclaves of special interest groups who patronise people like me.
4 -
I don't get it. This isn't some half-baked unsafe rush-job being forced on people for no reason. This is a global calamity and the jab is the only way to get it under control.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...0 -
Here's the thing.Fishing said:
Restrictions on foreign travel may be there for longer. Bizarrely, the Feb 2020 bans on UK and EU passengers still haven't been updated.rcs1000 said:
My wife and I are off to LACMA this morning, and then we'll go to the Farmer's Market for lunch. We'll carry masks, just in case, but don't anticipate needing them.rpjs said:
Pretty much the same here in the US north-east (except there are still Ubers but their rates have sky-rocketed). We’re just back from a vacation to Nantucket island (off the coast of Massachusetts) and wife’s home town of Narragansett, Rhode Island. Apart from where federal mandates still apply, such as the ferry to the island, mask wearing has become entirely optional. Some shops still have signs saying optional if fully vaxxed, but no-one’s checking. Some teenagers and younger children still wearing, but virtually no adults. It feels like the end phase is underway.rcs1000 said:Greetings from (mostly) completely reopened California.
95% of people on the street aren't wearing masks
80% of people in shops aren't wearing them.
Most shops and restaurants still require their employees to wear masks, presumably because until this week it was illegal to ask if an employee had been vaccinated.
There are no Ubers.
Public transport mask mandates are going to be the last thing to go, but even there I expect them to be gone by the end of the Summer.
Lots of Americans are going on foreign holidays to Europe at the moment. An art course my wife used to be involved with - The Rome Art Workshops - is completely sold out, as Americans head for Rome.
Those Americans travel there, party, and then return without any consequences.
And yet me, as a double (Moderna) vaccinated Brit, cannot travel from the UK to the US. I need to go UK to Mexico (which probably has a worse CV19 problem than the UK) for two weeks and then I can travel to the US.
The rules, as always, seem completely bizarre.1 -
Get vaxxed and don't tell them.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...0 -
Around a third of their population is over 55.Philip_Thompson said:
What do the Russian trolls stand to gain from this?rcs1000 said:
A significant chunk of the anti-vax stuff comes from Russian troll farms.Leon said:Anecdotages
A friend of mine has just texted me to say he's been on the phone with his middle aged, eccentric, arty but generally sane sister who spent half an hour "shouting and crying and demanding he refuse the vaccine"
A week ago a friend told me her brother in law (husband's brother) spent the entirety of a supper party in wrenching sobs because "my whole family is going to die from the jabs"
Where the fuck does this stuff come from, and why is it so tenacious?!
Half a million Russians are dead due to this pandemic. Why is a pandemic spreading and vaccines being refused good for Russia? Are they seeking to wipe out the elderly on purpose?
https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/2020/
That’s a figure comparable to ours in a population much less able to afford lots of pensions and healthcare.
I am not sure you are totally wide of the mark, in that Putin would probably shrug his shoulders if the imbalance were redressed by his pandemic.
But most likely it’s because he didn’t think it through before doing it. Which would be a very Putinish thing to do.0 -
It's what he's done until now, but in his concern for his loved ones he broke his own rule and tried to persuade them. He earned a long, tearful rant in responseFoxy said:
Get vaxxed and don't tell them.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...0 -
It is perfectly sane to refuse any vaccine.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get it. This isn't some half-baked unsafe rush-job being forced on people for no reason. This is a global calamity and the jab is the only way to get it under control.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...
And it certainly is rushed.
What is the timeframe vs other vaccine development timeframes?2 -
Oops.alex_ said:
Think he's talking about perspex screens.rcs1000 said:
Sigh.turbotubbs said:Probably one of the worst attempts to prevent transmission as they hinder free movement of air.
There is now an enormous amount of evidence that masks work, because they prevent people who have it from spreading it to others. They are supposed to hinder the free movement of air.
Ignore my comment.1 -
Day 2, with heavy rain forecast for day 3.alex_ said:
Eh? It's day 2!ydoethur said:So Conway goes after the first fifty of the match.
Hard to see anything other than a draw however unless one side or another suffers a truly spectacular implosion.
(I haven't checked the rules, but is there some provision about first innings lead winning in the event of a draw? Which would explain NZ cautious approach to date).
Which means at the start of day 4, we will have lost 12 wickets.
I’m backing a draw.0 -
Please ignore my earlier comment...turbotubbs said:
Oi! I’m not talking about masks... I was referring to plastic screens.rcs1000 said:
Sigh.turbotubbs said:Probably one of the worst attempts to prevent transmission as they hinder free movement of air.
There is now an enormous amount of evidence that masks work, because they prevent people who have it from spreading it to others. They are supposed to hinder the free movement of air.0 -
Get vaxxed and shout it from the rooftops. This insanity has to be challenged always and often. Who knows - they might discuss his vaccination with wider friendship groups expecting support and discover that everyone they know has been vaccinated as well. And then they become the isolated ones.Foxy said:
Get vaxxed and don't tell them.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...1 -
It's nothing to do with politics you dimwit.Black_Rook said:
Can imagine the caterwauling we'd get the first time some Unionist nut decided to torch an SNP politician's house. Still, one rule for one lot, a different rule for the other lot, eh?Theuniondivvie said:
Cracking Scotch experting, Gromit.Black_Rook said:
Ulsterization.FrancisUrquhart said:Third time in 2 years....
BBC News - Conservative councillor's house set on fire in third attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-57545325
'The Conservatives have blamed organised crime for the "disgusting" attack.'0 -
Same reason that Russian troll farms were for Brexit, AfD Trump, QAnon and against Wokery etc.Philip_Thompson said:
What do the Russian trolls stand to gain from this?rcs1000 said:
A significant chunk of the anti-vax stuff comes from Russian troll farms.Leon said:Anecdotages
A friend of mine has just texted me to say he's been on the phone with his middle aged, eccentric, arty but generally sane sister who spent half an hour "shouting and crying and demanding he refuse the vaccine"
A week ago a friend told me her brother in law (husband's brother) spent the entirety of a supper party in wrenching sobs because "my whole family is going to die from the jabs"
Where the fuck does this stuff come from, and why is it so tenacious?!
Half a million Russians are dead due to this pandemic. Why is a pandemic spreading and vaccines being refused good for Russia? Are they seeking to wipe out the elderly on purpose?
The purpose is to sow internal division and conflict within our societies, and it has worked well for them.0 -
Him getting vaxxed doesn’t do them harm. So get vaxxed, wait two weeks and then tell them! Personal anecdotes of things going well might nudge them over the line, you never know.Foxy said:
Get vaxxed and don't tell them.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...0 -
Bale you twat.0
-
If everyone in the world made the "sane" decision to refuse the "rushed" vaccines, coronavirus would now be killing millions worldwide every month, its growth would be accelerating, and/or we would be locked into a permanent, apocalyptic lockdownTOPPING said:
It is perfectly sane to refuse any vaccine.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get it. This isn't some half-baked unsafe rush-job being forced on people for no reason. This is a global calamity and the jab is the only way to get it under control.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...
And it certainly is rushed.
What is the timeframe vs other vaccine development timeframes?1 -
Well, that certainly lets out politics. Nobody’s accusing the Scottish government of being organised.Theuniondivvie said:
It's nothing to do with politics you dimwit.Black_Rook said:
Can imagine the caterwauling we'd get the first time some Unionist nut decided to torch an SNP politician's house. Still, one rule for one lot, a different rule for the other lot, eh?Theuniondivvie said:
Cracking Scotch experting, Gromit.Black_Rook said:
Ulsterization.FrancisUrquhart said:Third time in 2 years....
BBC News - Conservative councillor's house set on fire in third attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-57545325
'The Conservatives have blamed organised crime for the "disgusting" attack.'1 -
It’s not rushed in the sense of all the usual stages of testing have been done and we are now in stage IV testing (mass use, into the many millions). Could there be long term effects that we haven’t foreseen? Sure, anything is possible. But is it likely? Vanishingly small chance of a long term issue, and we are using phase IV trials to find the side effects that show in the short term ( such as clotting, that has sadly killed a tiny proportion of those who have had one of the vaccines).TOPPING said:
It is perfectly sane to refuse any vaccine.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get it. This isn't some half-baked unsafe rush-job being forced on people for no reason. This is a global calamity and the jab is the only way to get it under control.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...
And it certainly is rushed.
What is the timeframe vs other vaccine development timeframes?0 -
Nutjobbery more like , hard to believe the ignorance about Scotland on here. Idiots pontificating on stuff they have no clue whatsoever.Theuniondivvie said:
Cracking Scotch experting, Gromit.Black_Rook said:
Ulsterization.FrancisUrquhart said:Third time in 2 years....
BBC News - Conservative councillor's house set on fire in third attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-575453250 -
It's not necessarily insanity to not want to get a vaccine. What is clearly insane is the reasons that huge numbers of people give for doing so.TOPPING said:
It is perfectly sane to refuse any vaccine.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get it. This isn't some half-baked unsafe rush-job being forced on people for no reason. This is a global calamity and the jab is the only way to get it under control.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...
And it certainly is rushed.
What is the timeframe vs other vaccine development timeframes?
0 -
Yep. Isn't democracy wonderful.Leon said:
If everyone in the world made the "sane" decision to refuse the "rushed" vaccines, coronavirus would now be killing millions worldwide every month, its growth would be accelerating, and/or we would be locked into a permanent, apocalyptic lockdownTOPPING said:
It is perfectly sane to refuse any vaccine.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get it. This isn't some half-baked unsafe rush-job being forced on people for no reason. This is a global calamity and the jab is the only way to get it under control.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...
And it certainly is rushed.
What is the timeframe vs other vaccine development timeframes?0 -
Technically it’s day 3, as Friday was wiped out, and they can use day 6. I guess it could be seen as day 2, but with no extra day...ydoethur said:
Day 2, with heavy rain forecast for day 3.alex_ said:
Eh? It's day 2!ydoethur said:So Conway goes after the first fifty of the match.
Hard to see anything other than a draw however unless one side or another suffers a truly spectacular implosion.
(I haven't checked the rules, but is there some provision about first innings lead winning in the event of a draw? Which would explain NZ cautious approach to date).
Which means at the start of day 4, we will have lost 12 wickets.
I’m backing a draw.0 -
You got a grouse about itydoethur said:
Until the Bells goes.Foxy said:
You Teachers are all the same.ydoethur said:
And up you pop with your classic, famous grouse.Theuniondivvie said:
Cracking Scotch experting, Gromit.Black_Rook said:
Ulsterization.FrancisUrquhart said:Third time in 2 years....
BBC News - Conservative councillor's house set on fire in third attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-575453250 -
How much access does the average Russian have to Western Social Media? One of those things I don't know- maybe the trick is to spread disinformation over the West in the expectation that it won't wash back much into the Motherland?ydoethur said:
Around a third of their population is over 55.Philip_Thompson said:
What do the Russian trolls stand to gain from this?rcs1000 said:
A significant chunk of the anti-vax stuff comes from Russian troll farms.Leon said:Anecdotages
A friend of mine has just texted me to say he's been on the phone with his middle aged, eccentric, arty but generally sane sister who spent half an hour "shouting and crying and demanding he refuse the vaccine"
A week ago a friend told me her brother in law (husband's brother) spent the entirety of a supper party in wrenching sobs because "my whole family is going to die from the jabs"
Where the fuck does this stuff come from, and why is it so tenacious?!
Half a million Russians are dead due to this pandemic. Why is a pandemic spreading and vaccines being refused good for Russia? Are they seeking to wipe out the elderly on purpose?
https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/2020/
That’s a figure comparable to ours in a population much less able to afford lots of pensions and healthcare.
I am not sure you are totally wide of the mark, in that Putin would probably shrug his shoulders if the imbalance were redressed by his pandemic.
But most likely it’s because he didn’t think it through before doing it. Which would be a very Putinish thing to do.
Though for a while now, Russia hasn't really been about projecting strength as inducing weakness in its rivals. If you can't win, try to bring the other lot down to your level, that sort of thing. If it's what you want to do, it's quite an easy game to play.1 -
Lots. Just as they do in China and Vietnam, even though the government try to censor it. Aren’t VPNs wonderful?Stuartinromford said:
How much access does the average Russian have to Western Social Media? One of those things I don't know- maybe the trick is to spread disinformation over the West in the expectation that it won't wash back much into the Motherland?ydoethur said:
Around a third of their population is over 55.Philip_Thompson said:
What do the Russian trolls stand to gain from this?rcs1000 said:
A significant chunk of the anti-vax stuff comes from Russian troll farms.Leon said:Anecdotages
A friend of mine has just texted me to say he's been on the phone with his middle aged, eccentric, arty but generally sane sister who spent half an hour "shouting and crying and demanding he refuse the vaccine"
A week ago a friend told me her brother in law (husband's brother) spent the entirety of a supper party in wrenching sobs because "my whole family is going to die from the jabs"
Where the fuck does this stuff come from, and why is it so tenacious?!
Half a million Russians are dead due to this pandemic. Why is a pandemic spreading and vaccines being refused good for Russia? Are they seeking to wipe out the elderly on purpose?
https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/2020/
That’s a figure comparable to ours in a population much less able to afford lots of pensions and healthcare.
I am not sure you are totally wide of the mark, in that Putin would probably shrug his shoulders if the imbalance were redressed by his pandemic.
But most likely it’s because he didn’t think it through before doing it. Which would be a very Putinish thing to do.
Though for a while now, Russia hasn't really been about projecting strength as inducing weakness in its rivals. If you can't win, try to bring the other lot down to your level, that sort of thing. If it's what you want to do, it's quite an easy game to play.0 -
It would make an interesting PB poll of an evening:
How many of us know how many anti-vaxxers in our immediate circle?
I'm talking about immediate family members, perhaps as distant as close cousins, and good personal friends (people you can talk freely with over a drink)
I have two anti-vaxxers
One very close friend
And a sibling
Out of a total of about 30?
Anyone else?
0 -
I also asked what the timeframe was of these vs other vaccines. In those terms, ie in vaccine development timeframe terms it has been rushed.turbotubbs said:
It’s not rushed in the sense of all the usual stages of testing have been done and we are now in stage IV testing (mass use, into the many millions). Could there be long term effects that we haven’t foreseen? Sure, anything is possible. But is it likely? Vanishingly small chance of a long term issue, and we are using phase IV trials to find the side effects that show in the short term ( such as clotting, that has sadly killed a tiny proportion of those who have had one of the vaccines).TOPPING said:
It is perfectly sane to refuse any vaccine.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get it. This isn't some half-baked unsafe rush-job being forced on people for no reason. This is a global calamity and the jab is the only way to get it under control.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...
And it certainly is rushed.
What is the timeframe vs other vaccine development timeframes?
And who is anyone to say someone should take a risk no matter how small?0 -
Take a few pills and have a lie down. You seem to be deluded that you know anything about the topic.Black_Rook said:
Can imagine the caterwauling we'd get the first time some Unionist nut decided to torch an SNP politician's house. Still, one rule for one lot, a different rule for the other lot, eh?Theuniondivvie said:
Cracking Scotch experting, Gromit.Black_Rook said:
Ulsterization.FrancisUrquhart said:Third time in 2 years....
BBC News - Conservative councillor's house set on fire in third attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-575453250 -
I suspect this is the position in many close-knit families with a dominant patriarch or matriarch. If the head of the family refuses the vaccination, all the family will be cajoled or coerced into taking the same position.moonshine said:
A sad position he finds himself in, all he can do is protect himself, which in a small way will help protect them.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...
There are many societies and communities within the UK where the familial structure is very rigid and the writ of the head of the family is absolute - I'd venture to suggest that's one of the reasons for poor vaccine take-up in some areas.0 -
It would have been fun if they'd made the final a Timeless Test.turbotubbs said:
Technically it’s day 3, as Friday was wiped out, and they can use day 6. I guess it could be seen as day 2, but with no extra day...ydoethur said:
Day 2, with heavy rain forecast for day 3.alex_ said:
Eh? It's day 2!ydoethur said:So Conway goes after the first fifty of the match.
Hard to see anything other than a draw however unless one side or another suffers a truly spectacular implosion.
(I haven't checked the rules, but is there some provision about first innings lead winning in the event of a draw? Which would explain NZ cautious approach to date).
Which means at the start of day 4, we will have lost 12 wickets.
I’m backing a draw.3 -
Poor from Italy tbh
They’re failing to make their advantage count0 -
Yes, I've been to the US twice in the last year but both times have had to cool my heels pointlessly in Mexico, where, as you point out, the virus is out of control.rcs1000 said:
Here's the thing.Fishing said:
Restrictions on foreign travel may be there for longer. Bizarrely, the Feb 2020 bans on UK and EU passengers still haven't been updated.rcs1000 said:
My wife and I are off to LACMA this morning, and then we'll go to the Farmer's Market for lunch. We'll carry masks, just in case, but don't anticipate needing them.rpjs said:
Pretty much the same here in the US north-east (except there are still Ubers but their rates have sky-rocketed). We’re just back from a vacation to Nantucket island (off the coast of Massachusetts) and wife’s home town of Narragansett, Rhode Island. Apart from where federal mandates still apply, such as the ferry to the island, mask wearing has become entirely optional. Some shops still have signs saying optional if fully vaxxed, but no-one’s checking. Some teenagers and younger children still wearing, but virtually no adults. It feels like the end phase is underway.rcs1000 said:Greetings from (mostly) completely reopened California.
95% of people on the street aren't wearing masks
80% of people in shops aren't wearing them.
Most shops and restaurants still require their employees to wear masks, presumably because until this week it was illegal to ask if an employee had been vaccinated.
There are no Ubers.
Public transport mask mandates are going to be the last thing to go, but even there I expect them to be gone by the end of the Summer.
Lots of Americans are going on foreign holidays to Europe at the moment. An art course my wife used to be involved with - The Rome Art Workshops - is completely sold out, as Americans head for Rome.
Those Americans travel there, party, and then return without any consequences.
And yet me, as a double (Moderna) vaccinated Brit, cannot travel from the UK to the US. I need to go UK to Mexico (which probably has a worse CV19 problem than the UK) for two weeks and then I can travel to the US.
The rules, as always, seem completely bizarre.
0 -
They are doing what Italy do...get ahead then minimize opponents chances.of scoring. 1-0 is plenty for them.ping said:Poor from Italy tbh
They’re failing to press their advantage
Its why nobody watches Serie A.0 -
Hmm. Are you the guy judging people's excuses? Or is it someone in govt? I'd quite like to do it if the job is on offer.alex_ said:
It's not necessarily insanity to not want to get a vaccine. What is clearly insane is the reasons that huge numbers of people give for doing so.TOPPING said:
It is perfectly sane to refuse any vaccine.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get it. This isn't some half-baked unsafe rush-job being forced on people for no reason. This is a global calamity and the jab is the only way to get it under control.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...
And it certainly is rushed.
What is the timeframe vs other vaccine development timeframes?0 -
I'm not in Labour remember and frankly having spent 15 years in the red wall in a town riddled with social deprivation I get what they have done. I am not sneering at them - their perspective is that "progressive" politics is every other group than them getting attention and money whilst they start with nothing and watch their community stay dirt poor.MrEd said:
Your comment @RochdalePioneers exemplifies - consciously or unconsciously - why Labour is having problems with WWC Red Wallers. Your assumption that “they actively sought and voted for regressive politics” is the - pardon the pun - Black and White view that is taken by groups such as BLM ie if you are not with us, you are against you. While there are undoubted racists, there are also a lot who sit in the Grey zone - they recognise racism exists and dislike it but don’t like being told they are privileged and / or “deserve” to be discriminated against because of their whiteness, especially as many of them are poor themselves.RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't progressive. And that isn't what the WWC red wallers want. They actively sought and voted for regressive politics. They're not booing the England team taking the knee because they want progressive politics.algarkirk said:
The C&A result is an ancient type of byelection result, with little evidence that it is about being despised and loads of evidence that it's about how to vote at byelections. Massive anti governments swings are common where the circumstances are right, and are usually altered back over time or by the next election. The new trend is the government winning against the opposition. The Tories are in with a chance (less chance than the bookies say) with this yet again.Foxy said:
Yes, I think that does explain the C and A result, people won't vote for those that despise them.Cookie said:
There was a similar article in Unherd a couple of days ago, which concluded with a similar point:beentheredonethat said:
Reading the grauniad comments I am struck by the wide division between those who accept the article has validity and those who absolutely refuse their reality. It rather makes Mr. Freedlands point for him.isam said:He has absolutely nailed it here. Describes almost every avid Remainer I know (as in know on the internet)
"Here in Britain, Labour is lumped in with a “big blob” of its own. Too often a loud part of that blob sounds like either a select priesthood, speaking to itself about questions that would strike most people as abstract angels-on-a-pinhead theology, or a self-appointed police force dispensing constant, scolding judgment, wagging its finger at the latest supposed infraction of progressive standards. It’s exhausting and so unappealing that even a serially dishonest and incompetent government – but one that seems to accept you, your country and your way of life without pursed-lipped judgment – seems preferable by comparison."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/18/byelection-johnson-progressive-alliance-educated-middle-class
People will often put up with being ruled by people who cheat them, or lie to them, or who mismanage the country - as recent polls illustrate. But they won't put up with being ruled by people who openly despise them.
https://unherd.com/2021/06/the-self-loathing-of-britains-elites/
The collapse of the non big urban (London) blue wall is massively overstated. Look at the map as a whole rather than a few interesting cases.
Freedland is excellent but still manages to take for granted that Labour is the right answer to the progressive cause. Maybe it isn't. Maybe the Tories are the most progressive party around.
If Labour stood where the Tories stand about the aspirational middling sort I would vote for them in GEs as I do in local elections. But nationally they are a crowd of uncommunicating enclaves of special interest groups who patronise people like me.
This is why there are so many right wing independent groups formed in these kinds of areas. They can't stand Labour, they don't trust the Tories, so time to do it yourself.0 -
A sibling? So you have anti vax genes? Worrying.Leon said:It would make an interesting PB poll of an evening:
How many of us know how many anti-vaxxers in our immediate circle?
I'm talking about immediate family members, perhaps as distant as close cousins, and good personal friends (people you can talk freely with over a drink)
I have two anti-vaxxers
One very close friend
And a sibling
Out of a total of about 30?
Anyone else?1 -
And thats fine. If people want to suffer endless spikes and lockdowns, say no to the rushed vaccine.TOPPING said:
It is perfectly sane to refuse any vaccine.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get it. This isn't some half-baked unsafe rush-job being forced on people for no reason. This is a global calamity and the jab is the only way to get it under control.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...
And it certainly is rushed.
What is the timeframe vs other vaccine development timeframes?0 -
Sure, longer testing would have been ideal, but against that in the balance is rampaging disease in the community.TOPPING said:
I also asked what the timeframe was of these vs other vaccines. In those terms, ie in vaccine development timeframe terms it has been rushed.turbotubbs said:
It’s not rushed in the sense of all the usual stages of testing have been done and we are now in stage IV testing (mass use, into the many millions). Could there be long term effects that we haven’t foreseen? Sure, anything is possible. But is it likely? Vanishingly small chance of a long term issue, and we are using phase IV trials to find the side effects that show in the short term ( such as clotting, that has sadly killed a tiny proportion of those who have had one of the vaccines).TOPPING said:
It is perfectly sane to refuse any vaccine.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get it. This isn't some half-baked unsafe rush-job being forced on people for no reason. This is a global calamity and the jab is the only way to get it under control.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...
And it certainly is rushed.
What is the timeframe vs other vaccine development timeframes?
And who is anyone to say someone should take a risk no matter how small?
If it weren't for the vaccines, Delta would have us in a crisis as bad as the Second Wave.1 -
If you break the surface of anti-vaxx social media i think you may conclude that it is absolutely valid to judge the insanity of some of the theories floating about and clearly believed by large numbers of people.TOPPING said:
Hmm. Are you the guy judging people's excuses? Or is it someone in govt? I'd quite like to do it if the job is on offer.alex_ said:
It's not necessarily insanity to not want to get a vaccine. What is clearly insane is the reasons that huge numbers of people give for doing so.TOPPING said:
It is perfectly sane to refuse any vaccine.RochdalePioneers said:
I don't get it. This isn't some half-baked unsafe rush-job being forced on people for no reason. This is a global calamity and the jab is the only way to get it under control.Leon said:One of my friends mentioned downthread has texted me again:
"Sister, dad, mum, step dad, cousin are all anti-vax"
Imagine the familial pressure on him? He's basically the only one sane.
And his family is well-educated, degrees everywhere, step-father an architect in Germany...
And it certainly is rushed.
What is the timeframe vs other vaccine development timeframes?0 -
Russian social media is totally full of all sorts of anti-vax nonesense, even before this pandemic.Stuartinromford said:
How much access does the average Russian have to Western Social Media? One of those things I don't know- maybe the trick is to spread disinformation over the West in the expectation that it won't wash back much into the Motherland?ydoethur said:
Around a third of their population is over 55.Philip_Thompson said:
What do the Russian trolls stand to gain from this?rcs1000 said:
A significant chunk of the anti-vax stuff comes from Russian troll farms.Leon said:Anecdotages
A friend of mine has just texted me to say he's been on the phone with his middle aged, eccentric, arty but generally sane sister who spent half an hour "shouting and crying and demanding he refuse the vaccine"
A week ago a friend told me her brother in law (husband's brother) spent the entirety of a supper party in wrenching sobs because "my whole family is going to die from the jabs"
Where the fuck does this stuff come from, and why is it so tenacious?!
Half a million Russians are dead due to this pandemic. Why is a pandemic spreading and vaccines being refused good for Russia? Are they seeking to wipe out the elderly on purpose?
https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/2020/
That’s a figure comparable to ours in a population much less able to afford lots of pensions and healthcare.
I am not sure you are totally wide of the mark, in that Putin would probably shrug his shoulders if the imbalance were redressed by his pandemic.
But most likely it’s because he didn’t think it through before doing it. Which would be a very Putinish thing to do.
Though for a while now, Russia hasn't really been about projecting strength as inducing weakness in its rivals. If you can't win, try to bring the other lot down to your level, that sort of thing. If it's what you want to do, it's quite an easy game to play.
The troll farms targetting Westerners are just trying to sow societal division, and prolong the pandemic in the West to maximise the economic cost.3
