Batley & Spen – What happened in the May locals ward by ward – politicalbetting.com

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Moonshine, not sure it's a high horse to not want your autistic son to cop flak.

eek said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Moonshine, not sure it's a high horse to not want your autistic son to cop flak.

Yep - I watched someone having a go at two Down's Syndrome adults for not wearing masks last week - both had lanyards and weren't doing anything beyond their weekly shop.

OldKingCole said:

eek said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Moonshine, not sure it's a high horse to not want your autistic son to cop flak.

Yep - I watched someone having a go at two Down's Syndrome adults for not wearing masks last week - both had lanyards and weren't doing anything beyond their weekly shop.

Agree; there are some very stupid people about. Really ought to know what those lanyards mean.

OldKingCole said:

eek said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Moonshine, not sure it's a high horse to not want your autistic son to cop flak.

Yep - I watched someone having a go at two Down's Syndrome adults for not wearing masks last week - both had lanyards and weren't doing anything beyond their weekly shop.

Agree; there are some very stupid people about. Really ought to know what those lanyards mean.

Anabobazina said:

The week on week infection inflation rate falls again. Now down to 31%. That’s the lowest it has been in this wavelet I think.

rcs1000 said:

Greetings from (mostly) completely reopened California.

95% of people on the street aren't wearing masks
80% of people in shops aren't wearing them.

Most shops and restaurants still require their employees to wear masks, presumably because until this week it was illegal to ask if an employee had been vaccinated.

There are no Ubers.

RochdalePioneers said:

contrarian said:

One of the stories that has perked up my Sunday is the snippet in the Mail that the left's candidate to replace poor Sir Keir is Dawn Butler.

The prospect of watching MS Butler pitch for votes in any constituency that is not the innermost of inner city seats is almost too delicious to contemplate.

Yes, that would be something wondrous to watch. LOTO Butler, on the campaign train in a former red wall seat, filmed calling people she meets as "racist" 2,438 times in a single hour.

FrankBooth said:

Is Galloway worth a bet?

FrankBooth said:

Is Galloway worth a bet?

williamglenn said:

The most interesting thing in politics this weekend is the spat between Andy Burnham and Nicola Sturgeon.

https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/1406550971786973186

Andy_JS said:

rcs1000 said:

Greetings from (mostly) completely reopened California.

95% of people on the street aren't wearing masks
80% of people in shops aren't wearing them.

Most shops and restaurants still require their employees to wear masks, presumably because until this week it was illegal to ask if an employee had been vaccinated.

There are no Ubers.

Greetings. Why are there no Ubers?

Pagan2 said:

Anabobazina said:

OldKingCole said:

eek said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Moonshine, not sure it's a high horse to not want your autistic son to cop flak.

Yep - I watched someone having a go at two Down's Syndrome adults for not wearing masks last week - both had lanyards and weren't doing anything beyond their weekly shop.

Agree; there are some very stupid people about. Really ought to know what those lanyards mean.

More to the point, who are these horrible busybodies who are abusing people for being maskless?

Never yet been challenged for not wearing them but then apparently I look like a serial killer according to several work colleagues over the years

rpjs said:

rcs1000 said:

Greetings from (mostly) completely reopened California.

95% of people on the street aren't wearing masks
80% of people in shops aren't wearing them.

Most shops and restaurants still require their employees to wear masks, presumably because until this week it was illegal to ask if an employee had been vaccinated.

There are no Ubers.

Pretty much the same here in the US north-east (except there are still Ubers but their rates have sky-rocketed). We’re just back from a vacation to Nantucket island (off the coast of Massachusetts) and wife’s home town of Narragansett, Rhode Island. Apart from where federal mandates still apply, such as the ferry to the island, mask wearing has become entirely optional. Some shops still have signs saying optional if fully vaxxed, but no-one’s checking. Some teenagers and younger children still wearing, but virtually no adults. It feels like the end phase is underway.

RochdalePioneers said:

FrankBooth said:

RochdalePioneers said:

FrankBooth said:

Is Galloway worth a bet?

I'd have expected the angry knuckledraggers to all be lined up to receive Boris's spaff. And yet there some of them are behind gorgeous. So possibly yes, as hideous a thought it might be.

According to Hodges he has been hoovering up the Muslim vote and is now focusing on the white working class with his pro-brexit anti woke anti establishment message. Whether he could combine those two groups of voters together (as much as I dislike categorising people) is questionable though.

Whilst it sounds unlikely, don't put it past him. Besides, offering massively contradictory platforms to different voters is how we have Clown as PM with a majority of 80.

Anabobazina said:

Pagan2 said:

Anabobazina said:

OldKingCole said:

eek said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Moonshine, not sure it's a high horse to not want your autistic son to cop flak.

Yep - I watched someone having a go at two Down's Syndrome adults for not wearing masks last week - both had lanyards and weren't doing anything beyond their weekly shop.

Agree; there are some very stupid people about. Really ought to know what those lanyards mean.

More to the point, who are these horrible busybodies who are abusing people for being maskless?

Never yet been challenged for not wearing them but then apparently I look like a serial killer according to several work colleagues over the years

They sound like a charming bunch

Dura_Ace said:

It doesn't seem that long ago that tories on here were giving each other one speed hand jobs (with eye contact) over the vaccine program compared to Europe. And now, the fucking place is opening up later than most European countries. What was it all for?

Anabobazina said:

Pagan2 said:

Anabobazina said:

OldKingCole said:

eek said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Moonshine, not sure it's a high horse to not want your autistic son to cop flak.

Yep - I watched someone having a go at two Down's Syndrome adults for not wearing masks last week - both had lanyards and weren't doing anything beyond their weekly shop.

Agree; there are some very stupid people about. Really ought to know what those lanyards mean.

More to the point, who are these horrible busybodies who are abusing people for being maskless?

Never yet been challenged for not wearing them but then apparently I look like a serial killer according to several work colleagues over the years

They sound like a charming bunch

rcs1000 said:

rpjs said:

rcs1000 said:

Greetings from (mostly) completely reopened California.

95% of people on the street aren't wearing masks
80% of people in shops aren't wearing them.

Most shops and restaurants still require their employees to wear masks, presumably because until this week it was illegal to ask if an employee had been vaccinated.

There are no Ubers.

Pretty much the same here in the US north-east (except there are still Ubers but their rates have sky-rocketed). We’re just back from a vacation to Nantucket island (off the coast of Massachusetts) and wife’s home town of Narragansett, Rhode Island. Apart from where federal mandates still apply, such as the ferry to the island, mask wearing has become entirely optional. Some shops still have signs saying optional if fully vaxxed, but no-one’s checking. Some teenagers and younger children still wearing, but virtually no adults. It feels like the end phase is underway.

My wife and I are off to LACMA this morning, and then we'll go to the Farmer's Market for lunch. We'll carry masks, just in case, but don't anticipate needing them.

Public transport mask mandates are going to be the last thing to go, but even there I expect them to be gone by the end of the Summer.

moonshine said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Moonshine, not sure it's a high horse to not want your autistic son to cop flak.

No it is not. But it is to call anyone else a wanker because their condition for not masking in every setting isn’t as severe in his eyes as autism is.

I put myself through not one but two lots of two week quarantine due to suspected infection in me and household members, before Boris Johnson even announced the first lockdown. I have been wearing a mask in appropriate public settings since late January 2020, despite it exacerbating my own chronic lung condition. I bet not many of you can say that.

I’m not going to be so rudely lectured by people like Andy Cooke. Wearing a mask to walk 3 metres from the door to the table of a pub is idiotic and I refuse to now do it, especially given I’ve been a good boy and been double vaxxed, and anyone else at risk has been given the chance to be too.

alex_ said:

I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).

I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.

alex_ said:

I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).

I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.

Foxy said:

Anabobazina said:

Pagan2 said:

Anabobazina said:

OldKingCole said:

eek said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Moonshine, not sure it's a high horse to not want your autistic son to cop flak.

Yep - I watched someone having a go at two Down's Syndrome adults for not wearing masks last week - both had lanyards and weren't doing anything beyond their weekly shop.

Agree; there are some very stupid people about. Really ought to know what those lanyards mean.

More to the point, who are these horrible busybodies who are abusing people for being maskless?

Never yet been challenged for not wearing them but then apparently I look like a serial killer according to several work colleagues over the years

They sound like a charming bunch

That's prison warders for you...

isam said:

Surely this thread should be taken down? I kindo f agree that Labour are the value, as I agreed with Mike they were in Hartlepool when we were both wrong, but if the latest elections there were 2019, its all a load of nonsense and could be really misleading (is really misleading)

maaarsh said:

isam said:

Surely this thread should be taken down? I kindo f agree that Labour are the value, as I agreed with Mike they were in Hartlepool when we were both wrong, but if the latest elections there were 2019, its all a load of nonsense and could be really misleading (is really misleading)

Leave aside that either David Cowling or OGH can't count or have deliberately added a couple of thousand to the Lib Dem total to try and pretend they're not irrelevant.

rcs1000 said:

rpjs said:

rcs1000 said:

Greetings from (mostly) completely reopened California.

95% of people on the street aren't wearing masks
80% of people in shops aren't wearing them.

Most shops and restaurants still require their employees to wear masks, presumably because until this week it was illegal to ask if an employee had been vaccinated.

There are no Ubers.

Pretty much the same here in the US north-east (except there are still Ubers but their rates have sky-rocketed). We’re just back from a vacation to Nantucket island (off the coast of Massachusetts) and wife’s home town of Narragansett, Rhode Island. Apart from where federal mandates still apply, such as the ferry to the island, mask wearing has become entirely optional. Some shops still have signs saying optional if fully vaxxed, but no-one’s checking. Some teenagers and younger children still wearing, but virtually no adults. It feels like the end phase is underway.

My wife and I are off to LACMA this morning, and then we'll go to the Farmer's Market for lunch. We'll carry masks, just in case, but don't anticipate needing them.

Public transport mask mandates are going to be the last thing to go, but even there I expect them to be gone by the end of the Summer.

moonshine said:

alex_ said:

I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).

I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.

The hand gel thing is one of those that most people still unthinkingly do, the Dutch courage before going over the top in to the supermarket, even though it does almost nothing to improve your odds of remaining covid free.

I do wonder when the dust has settled whether the same will be said about mandated public use of masks. Without doubt both measures encourage people into higher risk environments than they would otherwise be comfortable with, despite neither measure probably making any discernible difference to their chances of catching it. Let’s face it, if these measures were so good, one must ask how 30-40% of the UK population caught covid, despite the end to commuting and face to face medical appointments, and the more or less continual mandating against socialising.

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Anabobazina said:

Pagan2 said:

Anabobazina said:

OldKingCole said:

eek said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Moonshine, not sure it's a high horse to not want your autistic son to cop flak.

Yep - I watched someone having a go at two Down's Syndrome adults for not wearing masks last week - both had lanyards and weren't doing anything beyond their weekly shop.

Agree; there are some very stupid people about. Really ought to know what those lanyards mean.

More to the point, who are these horrible busybodies who are abusing people for being maskless?

Never yet been challenged for not wearing them but then apparently I look like a serial killer according to several work colleagues over the years

They sound like a charming bunch

That's prison warders for you...

I will have you know I have never been convicted

isam said:

isam said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Wee man syndrome

Why do Labour lefties love the light blue shirt with beige blazer look do much? GG here, Red Ken and Jeza all wear it fr too often for it to be coincidental

Beige Boys

moonshine said:

Charles said:

moonshine said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Moonshine, not sure it's a high horse to not want your autistic son to cop flak.

No it is not. But it is to call anyone else a wanker because their condition for not masking in every setting isn’t as severe in his eyes as autism is.

I put myself through not one but two lots of two week quarantine due to suspected infection in me and household members, before Boris Johnson even announced the first lockdown. I have been wearing a mask in appropriate public settings since late January 2020, despite it exacerbating my own chronic lung condition. I bet not many of you can say that.

I’m not going to be so rudely lectured by people like Andy Cooke. Wearing a mask to walk 3 metres from the door to the table of a pub is idiotic and I refuse to now do it, especially given I’ve been a good boy and been double vaxxed, and anyone else at risk has been given the chance to be too.

He was referring to people who lie about an exemption not people, such as yourself, who are exempt

How does he know who is lying and who is not?

dixiedean said:

moonshine said:

alex_ said:

I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).

I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.

The hand gel thing is one of those that most people still unthinkingly do, the Dutch courage before going over the top in to the supermarket, even though it does almost nothing to improve your odds of remaining covid free.

I do wonder when the dust has settled whether the same will be said about mandated public use of masks. Without doubt both measures encourage people into higher risk environments than they would otherwise be comfortable with, despite neither measure probably making any discernible difference to their chances of catching it. Let’s face it, if these measures were so good, one must ask how 30-40% of the UK population caught covid, despite the end to commuting and face to face medical appointments, and the more or less continual mandating against socialising.

The hand gel thing is entirely harmless. It is no hassle and not compulsory. It is probably of marginal benefit to the spread of colds and stuff.
And a sizable proportion of those who caught Covid did so from working. To keep the country going.

Andy_Cooke said:

moonshine said:

Andy_Cooke said:

Black_Rook said:

moonshine said:

Black_Rook said:

moonshine said:

Stocky said:

Black_Rook said:

Mortimer said:

Fishing said:

Anabobazina said:

another_richard said:

rottenborough said:

No one working in No. 10 is obeying lockdown and covid restrictions claims Julia Harley-Brewer. They don't bother with social distancing, screens or masks and have even set up a bar for socialising:


"A furious Whitehall source alerted me to this hypocrisy. They said: 'If those in Downing Street had to wear masks all day, or tried to run a business while sticking to social-distancing rules, or were forced to sit looking at a screen at home all day, would they be slower to keep the rest of us under those restrictions?

'No wonder they don't understand why four more weeks of lockdown is a big deal for so many people, and why it may be a death-blow for countless more businesses.' "

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9704403/JULIA-HARTLEY-BREWER-Ministers-tell-theyre-not-obeying-Covid-rules-10-Downing-Street.html

Didn't they all get infected in March 2020 ?

Tbh face coverings and social distancing observation have pretty much stopped where I work.

Yes, also at my office. Ditto the pub I frequent. Compliance is very low generally now, outside of Nick Palmer’s circle of friends apparently. Real world observation supports the view that people support restrictions on other people.

Still quite high in shops and supermarkets, though, I find.

The one that gets me is the 'masks on to enter a pub/restaurant' rule. It strikes me as utterly insane and making no difference whatsoever.

It's what's been referred to elsewhere as "Covid theatre" - a useless ritual performance. Same as having to put a gag back on when you have to get out of your seat to go to the loo, or to walk through a hotel lobby on the way to your room. Like a lot of the rules, a classic example of something-must-be-done-ism.

"Covid theatre" - I like that - yes, virtue signalling as it pertains to the pandemic. Will be with us for a long time, I fear. When legal restrictions are eventually removed should one ignore or mock this tendency?

It has been a liberating feeling this weekend fucking off the pointless “mask until you sit down” rule. Noone’s challenged. Track and trace also can go and do one.

These sorts of minor protests are important. Every time you see someone wearing a mask when out and about, it’s a reminder to be afraid. Conversely every time you see someone breaking the pointless rules, it’s a cue to self reflect on what on earth you’re doing following them.

Just a single drop in a limitless ocean maybe. But what is an ocean but a multitude of drops.

We were invited not to bother to wear a mask in a taxi the other day. We left them on anyway because we were going to a hotel where we knew from past experience that we'd only be obliged to put the evil things back on, but it was nice.

There is no legal obligation. Just don’t wear one if you think it’s silly. If challenged, just utter “exempt”.

I have thought about getting myself and husband two of those hidden disability lanyards. Indeed, he is actually entitled to one. It's dealing with other people that stays my hand. Easier to comply with the nonsense and hope it's finally over soon.

Our son is severely autistic and thus has a lanyard.
We tend to try to avoid going anywhere because quite a few people assume he’s just playing the Lawrence Fox card, due to so many wankers going around lying about it.

Clip clop clip clop. There goes Andy on his moral high horse.

Fuck off, you denialist cunt.
Sick and fucking tired of the denialist wankers now. I’m out.

alex_ said:

I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).

I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.

alex_ said:

dixiedean said:

moonshine said:

alex_ said:

I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).

I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.

The hand gel thing is one of those that most people still unthinkingly do, the Dutch courage before going over the top in to the supermarket, even though it does almost nothing to improve your odds of remaining covid free.

I do wonder when the dust has settled whether the same will be said about mandated public use of masks. Without doubt both measures encourage people into higher risk environments than they would otherwise be comfortable with, despite neither measure probably making any discernible difference to their chances of catching it. Let’s face it, if these measures were so good, one must ask how 30-40% of the UK population caught covid, despite the end to commuting and face to face medical appointments, and the more or less continual mandating against socialising.

The hand gel thing is entirely harmless. It is no hassle and not compulsory. It is probably of marginal benefit to the spread of colds and stuff.
And a sizable proportion of those who caught Covid did so from working. To keep the country going.

It is "harmless" - but my (public sector) employer is spending thousands of pounds on the things is anticipation of staff returning to the office on some level.

Mortimer said:

rcs1000 said:

Greetings from (mostly) completely reopened California.

95% of people on the street aren't wearing masks
80% of people in shops aren't wearing them.

Most shops and restaurants still require their employees to wear masks, presumably because until this week it was illegal to ask if an employee had been vaccinated.

There are no Ubers.

Cannot wait for this to be the case in England, too!

Leon said:

moonshine said:

Andy_Cooke said:

Black_Rook said:

moonshine said:

Black_Rook said:

moonshine said:

Stocky said:

Black_Rook said:

Mortimer said:

Fishing said:

Anabobazina said:

another_richard said:

rottenborough said:

No one working in No. 10 is obeying lockdown and covid restrictions claims Julia Harley-Brewer. They don't bother with social distancing, screens or masks and have even set up a bar for socialising:


"A furious Whitehall source alerted me to this hypocrisy. They said: 'If those in Downing Street had to wear masks all day, or tried to run a business while sticking to social-distancing rules, or were forced to sit looking at a screen at home all day, would they be slower to keep the rest of us under those restrictions?

'No wonder they don't understand why four more weeks of lockdown is a big deal for so many people, and why it may be a death-blow for countless more businesses.' "

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9704403/JULIA-HARTLEY-BREWER-Ministers-tell-theyre-not-obeying-Covid-rules-10-Downing-Street.html

Didn't they all get infected in March 2020 ?

Tbh face coverings and social distancing observation have pretty much stopped where I work.

Yes, also at my office. Ditto the pub I frequent. Compliance is very low generally now, outside of Nick Palmer’s circle of friends apparently. Real world observation supports the view that people support restrictions on other people.

Still quite high in shops and supermarkets, though, I find.

The one that gets me is the 'masks on to enter a pub/restaurant' rule. It strikes me as utterly insane and making no difference whatsoever.

It's what's been referred to elsewhere as "Covid theatre" - a useless ritual performance. Same as having to put a gag back on when you have to get out of your seat to go to the loo, or to walk through a hotel lobby on the way to your room. Like a lot of the rules, a classic example of something-must-be-done-ism.

"Covid theatre" - I like that - yes, virtue signalling as it pertains to the pandemic. Will be with us for a long time, I fear. When legal restrictions are eventually removed should one ignore or mock this tendency?

It has been a liberating feeling this weekend fucking off the pointless “mask until you sit down” rule. Noone’s challenged. Track and trace also can go and do one.

These sorts of minor protests are important. Every time you see someone wearing a mask when out and about, it’s a reminder to be afraid. Conversely every time you see someone breaking the pointless rules, it’s a cue to self reflect on what on earth you’re doing following them.

Just a single drop in a limitless ocean maybe. But what is an ocean but a multitude of drops.

We were invited not to bother to wear a mask in a taxi the other day. We left them on anyway because we were going to a hotel where we knew from past experience that we'd only be obliged to put the evil things back on, but it was nice.

There is no legal obligation. Just don’t wear one if you think it’s silly. If challenged, just utter “exempt”.

I have thought about getting myself and husband two of those hidden disability lanyards. Indeed, he is actually entitled to one. It's dealing with other people that stays my hand. Easier to comply with the nonsense and hope it's finally over soon.

Our son is severely autistic and thus has a lanyard.
We tend to try to avoid going anywhere because quite a few people assume he’s just playing the Lawrence Fox card, due to so many wankers going around lying about it.

Clip clop clip clop. There goes Andy on his moral high horse.

WTAF. His son is autistic and you're sneering??

There may be some backstory I don't get, but that is well out of order. Apologise! You are a sensible poster, normally

dixiedean said:

alex_ said:

dixiedean said:

moonshine said:

alex_ said:

I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).

I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.

The hand gel thing is one of those that most people still unthinkingly do, the Dutch courage before going over the top in to the supermarket, even though it does almost nothing to improve your odds of remaining covid free.

I do wonder when the dust has settled whether the same will be said about mandated public use of masks. Without doubt both measures encourage people into higher risk environments than they would otherwise be comfortable with, despite neither measure probably making any discernible difference to their chances of catching it. Let’s face it, if these measures were so good, one must ask how 30-40% of the UK population caught covid, despite the end to commuting and face to face medical appointments, and the more or less continual mandating against socialising.

The hand gel thing is entirely harmless. It is no hassle and not compulsory. It is probably of marginal benefit to the spread of colds and stuff.
And a sizable proportion of those who caught Covid did so from working. To keep the country going.

It is "harmless" - but my (public sector) employer is spending thousands of pounds on the things is anticipation of staff returning to the office on some level.

You never know. It may prove of benefit in the reduction of spread of colds. When hand shaking returns.
I certainly use it at every opportunity. Not cause of Covid, just cos it is more hygienic. And free.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

alex_ said:

I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).

I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.

He will be ignored and indeed there are less masks being worn and social distancing is disappearing

He is becoming extremely unpopular here in North Wales with local firms taking him to Court over their competitors In England which are open and he is trying to bring in a tourist tax, notwithstanding covid having decimated the industry

And Wales 1 down

Black_Rook said:

Foxy said:

alex_ said:

I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).

I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.

While certainly the SD rules are a major drag on productivity, it is worth noting that waiting lists were growing even with normal productivity prior to the first lockdown.

I don't think that we can be rid of them though. We are seeing significant outbreaks again acquired in hospital.

Why are hospitals incapable of controlling this infection effectively? Is the virus so hard to contain that the task is impossible?

Black_Rook said:

williamglenn said:

The most interesting thing in politics this weekend is the spat between Andy Burnham and Nicola Sturgeon.

https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/1406550971786973186

Not least because, for once, the criticism comes from a smaller, weaker jurisdiction than hers. The standard catch all "evil Tories oppressing Scotland" response won't work this time.

beentheredonethat said:

isam said:

He has absolutely nailed it here. Describes almost every avid Remainer I know (as in know on the internet)

"Here in Britain, Labour is lumped in with a “big blob” of its own. Too often a loud part of that blob sounds like either a select priesthood, speaking to itself about questions that would strike most people as abstract angels-on-a-pinhead theology, or a self-appointed police force dispensing constant, scolding judgment, wagging its finger at the latest supposed infraction of progressive standards. It’s exhausting and so unappealing that even a serially dishonest and incompetent government – but one that seems to accept you, your country and your way of life without pursed-lipped judgment – seems preferable by comparison."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/18/byelection-johnson-progressive-alliance-educated-middle-class

Reading the grauniad comments I am struck by the wide division between those who accept the article has validity and those who absolutely refuse their reality. It rather makes Mr. Freedlands point for him.

Cookie said:

beentheredonethat said:

isam said:

He has absolutely nailed it here. Describes almost every avid Remainer I know (as in know on the internet)

"Here in Britain, Labour is lumped in with a “big blob” of its own. Too often a loud part of that blob sounds like either a select priesthood, speaking to itself about questions that would strike most people as abstract angels-on-a-pinhead theology, or a self-appointed police force dispensing constant, scolding judgment, wagging its finger at the latest supposed infraction of progressive standards. It’s exhausting and so unappealing that even a serially dishonest and incompetent government – but one that seems to accept you, your country and your way of life without pursed-lipped judgment – seems preferable by comparison."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/18/byelection-johnson-progressive-alliance-educated-middle-class

Reading the grauniad comments I am struck by the wide division between those who accept the article has validity and those who absolutely refuse their reality. It rather makes Mr. Freedlands point for him.

There was a similar article in Unherd a couple of days ago, which concluded with a similar point:
People will often put up with being ruled by people who cheat them, or lie to them, or who mismanage the country - as recent polls illustrate. But they won't put up with being ruled by people who openly despise them.
https://unherd.com/2021/06/the-self-loathing-of-britains-elites/

alex_ said:

Foxy said:

Black_Rook said:

Foxy said:

alex_ said:

I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).

I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.

While certainly the SD rules are a major drag on productivity, it is worth noting that waiting lists were growing even with normal productivity prior to the first lockdown.

I don't think that we can be rid of them though. We are seeing significant outbreaks again acquired in hospital.

Why are hospitals incapable of controlling this infection effectively? Is the virus so hard to contain that the task is impossible?

In part it is that much medical and nursing care cannot be socially distanced, in part the numbers of staff moving around, the generally poor ventilation in many areas and in part the number of vulnerable patients.

If large chunks of it simply CANNOT be socially distanced, is there really that much benefit in trying to maintain restrictive measures where they can - given the damage it does to wider healthcare provision?

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Black_Rook said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

alex_ said:

I see that nice Mr Drakeford has said that vaccinations won't be enough, and coronavirus restrictions "in some form" are going to be required for the foreseeable future to "prevent our health service being overwhelmed again". And then quotes "masks, social distancing measures and hand washing" (is there actually any evidence that hand washing and all these gel dispensers everywhere actually do anything whatsoever in relation to the spreading of Covid?).

I wonder if it is worth pointing out that if you're concerned about the NHS being overwhelmed then "social distancing" is a somewhat double edged sword - given that (as we know from Dr Foxy here) social distancing rules in hospitals are a significant contributing factor to preventing hospitals clearing backlogs and returning to normal. And he particularly focussed on out-patients and the knock on effect on A&E unless it gets going to something like speed again.

He will be ignored and indeed there are less masks being worn and social distancing is disappearing

He is becoming extremely unpopular here in North Wales with local firms taking him to Court over their competitors In England which are open and he is trying to bring in a tourist tax, notwithstanding covid having decimated the industry

And Wales 1 down

Drakeford can vandalize the Welsh economy as much as he pleases. All he has to do if people get poorer is follow the Scottish formula: blame the Tories and demand more money from England. Job done.

The conservatives had their best result in the Assembly elections this year

alex_ said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

It is interesting after 15 months of this pandemic we still aren't totally sure about transmission vectors.

"Interesting", or verging on criminal (either that this isn't reasonably certainly known to a material level, or that the Government has done such a poor job of communicating it)?