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Labour has a bigger problem in seeking power than Scotland: the Midlands…. – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,550
    edited May 2021

    Calling it Great English Railways probably would have been equally popular
    And then the same people complaining about the Great British name would be moaning that it isn't true either because they control the infrastructure in Scotland and Wales, and it is just the arrogant English at it again....can't win either way.

    The more important question is will it result in a better service.....
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,697

    Not like they picked 50% out of the air as they did not have a clue what the right percentage should be. Not at all, no......
    Actually, the 50% was the average from a staff survey. Yes, we were consulted.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,852

    I found out today that my induction, etc in my new job will be all virtual. I'm a little disappointed to be honest — it's going to be very lonely!
    I am contracted to a Romanian client I have never met and organising production trials out of a factory I haven't visited. I have negotiated for them a partnership agreement with a UK company who I have never met. Its business Jim, but know as we know it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,572
    MattW said:

    Oh my.

    I had him down as an extreme Southerner.

    Now I discover he's a turncoat as well :wink: .

    On comment: I think the point of inflexion in the perceived political direction may actually be the Miners' Strike, though the main demographic / geographical trend is more recent with industrial diseases etc killing people early. There still quite a lot of people who remember King Arthur sending his flying thugs down the motorway to intimidate. I remember not being able to get to school because a thousand of them were trying to force the closure of Babbington Colliery.

    And a lot of people bought their Council Houses.

    More recently there are things like a biggish regional light-rail system which has affected where people live to an extent.

    ----------------------
    At Babbington colliery, police faced 2,000 pickets and were pelted with stones when they made more than 60 arrests.

    Seven officers needed treatment for cuts to the head and legs. One officer suffered an eye injury and a union spokesman was also hurt.

    Less than half the normal shift of 200 men went into work, but the pit was able to continue production.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/9/newsid_2903000/2903651.stm
    My grandfather was a miner at Babbington.

    He was a meticulous timekeeper. One day he missed the bus. By the time he had could get the next bus, his shift had gone down - and were killed in an explosion.

    If he hadn't missed that bus - no thread header.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,741

    Sounds like Gateshead
    Rushcliffe is probably more Gosforth.

    In the Nottingham context Gateshead would be Derby
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Indeed. It is an unrealistic target without massive infrastructure investment - which doesn't seem to be happening - and even if it was, it would no doubt turn out to be investment in old technology that is out of date before it is finished. Think DAB or Smart Meters on a bigger scale.

    Oddly, there doesn't seem to be the drive to get rid of aviation emissions at the same pace. The result of that will be that it will become easier for me to get on a plane to the US than drive to the Highlands.

    I wonder whether some vehicle types will be exempted and if this will drive some unexpected behaviour. Perhaps we'll have people driving round in lorry cabs, Chris Eubank style.
    Pickup trucks. Same as everyone self-employed bought a decade or so ago, when they spotted a ‘loophole’ in the company car tax regime that allowed commercial vehicles to be exempt from BIK.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Sadly it strikes me that Philip displays an astonishing degree of almost wilful ignorance of the importance of proper non-agricultural countryside in his desperate desire for never ending development. And that is the issue - in his world it really is never ending and nothing can stand in the way of building. It is a genuinely stupid philosophy.

    I'm in favour of having more green spaces, more gardens, more parks, more trees where people live.

    I'm in favour of protecting the non-agricultural countryside; forests and other areas of outstanding natural beauty etc I have agreed should be protected. As the exception not the norm.

    Intensive farming fields that nobody besides a farmer can go into, that take up 70% of the countries land and generate 0.61% of GDP? Some of that can be better used, with the farmers paid handsomely no doubt for their land.

    We've currently got 5% of the UK dedicated to housing, 70% for agricultural fields. If we went to 6% and 69% then that would increase the space for housing by 20%, while reducing agricultural land by 1.4% and reducing agricultures contribution to GDP potentially by 0.008%
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,697

    Sounds like Gateshead
    We are in a different county, not just a different town.

    Gateshead - in a First Class County
    Newcastle - in a minor county
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,840
    edited May 2021
    Gallowgate:

    I found out today that my induction, etc in my new job will be all virtual. I'm a little disappointed to be honest — it's going to be very lonely!


    ++++++

    Sympathies. I reckon we will discover lots of downsides to "hybrid working" exactly like this. We have rushed into epochal changes without properly thinking
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    edited May 2021

    Pause. Breathe. Stop making arrogant fact-free statements.

    GBR will not set fares in Scotland. Four of their concessions will operate trains that run to Scotland but the fares there will be set by Scotrail as they are now. Simplification will mean the TOC-only fares being removed, so an end to fares set by Cross Country and LNER for internal Scottish services.
    I'm not making any such thing. I haven't mentioned ticketing. I'm merely saying that the claim by the press officer that GBR will "operate only" in England is a nonsense. It is demonstrably untrue. Plenty of GBR trains will operate in Scotland as you yourself point out.

    What a needlessly aggressive and inaccurate post by you.
  • HarryFreemanHarryFreeman Posts: 210
    https://twitter.com/LeanTossup/status/1395348584271257600?s=20

    leantossup.ca calls Batley for Cons (64% chance)

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    It seems like the national system is breaking down with different regions deciding to fudge the rules...

    A scheme to offer university students walk-in Covid vaccinations has been suspended on its second day after too many people turned up.

    Bournemouth University said it was told "all students" could queue for jabs at Bournemouth International Centre for seven days, beginning on Tuesday. Yesterday hundreds of students turned up - with some queuing for up to eight hours, while others were turned away.

    ---

    I am not sure this is the best approach, as one of the beauties of the roll out so far has been the simplicity, so everybody knew where they stood (and makes planning much easier).

    Well, everyone sure knew where they were standing: in the queue in the street.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,177

    We are in a different county, not just a different town.

    Gateshead - in a First Class County
    Newcastle - in a minor county
    Newcastle - in a Premier League county you mean
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,379

    For now?
    Sounds quite blackmaily to me, just keep those £100m chunks coming and your precious statue will be fine..
    It looks carefully choregraphed to me.

    You write the report saying it should come down, we'll say we can't do it at the moment, and we'll tell our donors we never will if they keep the money flowing.

    It's virtue-signalling all round.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Sad to say, but the Conservatives do have to spontaneously combust before Labour is even allowed to speak to the voters of (to quote Priestley) Rusty Lane, West Bromwich.

    It is difficult to see what Labour, or anyone else can offer, when the Johnsonian vision of English purity and his sunny disposition has captured the zeitgeist.

    Personally, I would keep the social justice to a minimum (sod, love thy neighbour, this is a dog-eat-dog world) and focus on environmental themes. Maybe proposing a sanctuary for the Brexit unicorns- Family Starmer almost has form here!
    That is too pessimistic. A mere 6 months ago Johnson was in trouble in such areas. The guy is inherently unstable. Just give him another 6 months.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,280

    Actually, the 50% was the average from a staff survey. Yes, we were consulted.
    Hmmm, the cynic in me says HR rounded to the nearest 50%. Unless there are two of you? One prefers home and the other the office?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,550
    Black fungus kills 90 recovered Covid patients in India as infections are labelled an ‘epidemic’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/black-fungus-kills-90-recovered-covid-patients-india-infections/
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    Sounds like Gateshead

    The boundaries of Nottingham are almost as bonkers as those of Newcastle. As those snivelling Notts County fans why they sing: "One team in Nott'm..."
  • HarryFreemanHarryFreeman Posts: 210

    GB-wide. Network Rail does not cover Northern Ireland. Its future control over chunks of Wales, Merseyside and all of Scotland also looks increasingly tenuous. This is Great English Railways but we can't call it that.
    Network rail covers Scotland - this new thing will take on their infrastructure.

    Perhaps it should run the ferries to the Scottish Islands too given the disaster the SNP have made of running those.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Well yes, as ScotRail is being renationalised – to the Scottish Government – and TfL is already nationalised (and indeed was never privatised in the first place). Ditto NI Rail.

    I'm not sure what the problem is? GBR is a state-run English railway that serves some stations in Scotland and Wales. This is entirely normal – TGV (France) and Trentitalia (Italy) are nationalised railways that – guess what? – cross borders.

    People aren't going to be kicked out at the banks of the Tweed and told to continue their journey by river raft.

    Berwick station is on the north bank of the Tweed, in (lately) English territory.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,834

    Those UDM lads were taken for absolute mugs. Ended up in the same dole queue as the rest of the miners.
    But they didn't spend thirteen months going without income in the meantime.

    The economics of the strike baffled me then and baffled me still.
    Government: we can't afford to carry on subsidising the extraction of coal. We'll have to close down pits and import it.
    Miners: if you do that, we'll stop working.
    Government: er, ok.

    (I know this is highly oversimplified, but still.)

    You can only really strike if you are doing something where the economics are in your favour. This is why school strikes never achieved anything.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,177
    edited May 2021

    https://twitter.com/LeanTossup/status/1395348584271257600?s=20

    leantossup.ca calls Batley for Cons (64% chance)

    Is that based on MRP or something, or just uniform swing?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,697

    I found out today that my induction, etc in my new job will be all virtual. I'm a little disappointed to be honest — it's going to be very lonely!
    It has been a tough year for new starters. There are several of my colleagues who I have not yet met in person.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,924

    Those UDM lads were taken for absolute mugs. Ended up in the same dole queue as the rest of the miners.
    If all the miners had been UDM, would they have all ended up in the dole queue? Maybe, but not as quickly.

    A friend of mine was a mining engineer who had to keep a mine going during the strike. He was attacked and beaten up on his way to the colliery.

    The mob later descended on the offices and the management had to retreat to a corridor and arm themselves with iron bars on the grounds that 'they can only come at us one at a time'.

    Without him and a few others the pit would have quickly become unrecoverable, so I'm not sure what the NUM lot actually wanted.


    And people think the Brexit wars were bad...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    Calling it Great English Railways probably would have been equally popular

    They could quite feasibly call it that. Why not? French trains operate in Italy and vice versa. It's an English state-run railway that crosses borders, just like most other European state-run railways.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    That's actually a bit of a shame really. Would have been nice to have a GB-wide system.
    Why the obsession, not you I mean, but generally? Irish railways have always been separate, even in the bit that was in the UK post 1921.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,852
    Leon said:

    Anabobazina never said that. Straw man. Boring

    I am explaining to her what the set-up is. Train operator x in one country extending services into another country is not the same as that operator running things in that second country.

    GBR will manage the INFRASTRUCTURE in England, Wales and Scotland. It will not operate the trains in Wales and Scotland nor set the fares nor make the timetables as those are devolved. The PM's spokesperson is right that GBR will not be the train operator in the devolved nations - that doesn't mean English GBR trains can't run into that area. But they won't run things across the border. Even the timetable those services run to will be with the agreement of the devolved operators - they can't just turn up when they want to.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,572
    MattW said:

    Rushcliffe is really part of Nottingham City.

    Though announce that in the centre of it, and you will be run out of town by a lynch-mob.
    When I was a lad, West Bridgford was known as "bread and lard island"....
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Carnyx said:

    Berwick station is on the north bank of the Tweed, in (lately) English territory.
    Fair point, but you catch my drift! :)
  • HarryFreemanHarryFreeman Posts: 210

    Is that based on MRP or something, or just uniform swing?
    Dunno - but an interesting recentish entrant to the Uk prediction family.

    Let's see how they get on - Canadian pollsters don't have a flawless record - particularly in Scottish referendums ..
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,328
    edited May 2021
    MattW said:

    Yes - it's 2030.

    Not sure how unrealistic I would call that. Though I would go with "demanding".

    Pure electric car sales have jumped from 1% to 6% in 2 years.
    Just eight and a half years to get ALL the required infrastructures in place is indeed "demanding".
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,679

    My grandfather was a miner at Babbington.

    He was a meticulous timekeeper. One day he missed the bus. By the time he had could get the next bus, his shift had gone down - and were killed in an explosion.

    If he hadn't missed that bus - no thread header.
    Wooo. That's a story.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,782
    edited May 2021
    MattW said:

    Yes - it's 2030.

    Not sure how unrealistic I would call that. Though I would go with "demanding".

    Pure electric car sales have jumped from 1% to 6% in 2 years.
    In about five years electric cars ought to be significantly cheaper to manufacture than their ICE equivalents. The market will then do much of the rest, and if government doesn't provide for the charging infrastructure, whether directly or by subsidy/coercion, it will suffer the consequences.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    We are in a different county, not just a different town.

    Gateshead - in a First Class County
    Newcastle - in a minor county
    Gateshead hasn't been in County Durham for almost half a century.

    Get over it.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,852


    They could quite feasibly call it that. Why not? French trains operate in Italy and vice versa. It's an English state-run railway that crosses borders, just like most other European state-run railways.
    Which is the literal point that Liar's spokesperson was making which you said was incorrect. LNER / Avanti / Cross Country / TPE will still run across the border. But not set their fares or their timetables there. GBR's reach from an operational perspective ends at the Royal Border Bridge.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,369

    Sad to say, but the Conservatives do have to spontaneously combust before Labour is even allowed to speak to the voters of (to quote Priestley) Rusty Lane, West Bromwich.

    It is difficult to see what Labour, or anyone else can offer, when the Johnsonian vision of English purity and his sunny disposition has captured the zeitgeist.

    Personally, I would keep the social justice to a minimum (sod, love thy neighbour, this is a dog-eat-dog world) and focus on environmental themes. Maybe proposing a sanctuary for the Brexit unicorns- Family Starmer almost has form here!
    And that's the heart of the matter.

    There are reasonable reasons to anticipate that Johnsonism, like Berlusconismo, will do the country significant harm in the medium-to-long term. But to argue that is to be, at best, a doomster and a gloomster. At worst, it's to be an unpatriot who wants the country to fail.

    But whilst it's execrable government, it's excellent short term electoral politics, and blooming difficult to oppose.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,697
    Leon said:

    Gallowgate:

    I found out today that my induction, etc in my new job will be all virtual. I'm a little disappointed to be honest — it's going to be very lonely!


    ++++++

    Sympathies. I reckon we will discover lots of downsides to "hybrid working" exactly like this. We have rushed into epochal changes without properly thinking

    With hybrid working, inductions, etc. are exactly the sort of thing that happens in person. Meeting colleagues on a day when everyone agrees to go in. Staring at a screen all day is the activity that happens at home.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,679
    edited May 2021
    I see that we are now officially over 70% of adults for first jabs. And probably went through through 40% for fully-vaccinated yesterday.



  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,840
    Regent's Park is being strafed by an autumn gale. It is 13C, at 1.30pm on the 20th May

    The worst May of my life, for weather. As far as I can recall. What a year to choose
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,352

    Network rail covers Scotland - this new thing will take on their infrastructure.

    Perhaps it should run the ferries to the Scottish Islands too given the disaster the SNP have made of running those.
    Recovered from the excesses of the weekend, Harold?

    https://twitter.com/ScotsmanPaddy/status/1393712629873528832?s=20
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Is that based on MRP or something, or just uniform swing?
    Something like MRP.

    Their predictions, in Canada, the USA and the UK have been uncannily accurate.

    This was their 2019 prediction, Tory majority 82: https://twitter.com/leantossup/status/1204458179528142855

    Not bad, not bad at all! Only real error was overestimating the Lib Dems.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,235
    Nigelb said:

    In about five years electric cars ought to be significantly cheaper to manufacture than their ICE equivalents. The market will then do much of the rest, and if government doesn't provide for the charging infrastructure, whether directly or by subsidy/coercion, it will suffer the consequences.
    There's actually rather alot of work on charging infrastructure happening at the moment. Billions being spent on it. Just not very sexy as a news story.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,724
    edited May 2021
    OK Team need help.

    Have just been for a bike ride. London (not central). Caned it around leafy west London and have come back gagging* as though something, dust or something, is in my throat. All is good now, so did a bit of turbo google and someone mentioned Lime trees can do this. Can they?

    *No melons were involved.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,697

    Hmmm, the cynic in me says HR rounded to the nearest 50%. Unless there are two of you? One prefers home and the other the office?
    Everyone else wants to go in during the 50% of the time that I'm working from home!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,328
    justin124 said:

    That is too pessimistic. A mere 6 months ago Johnson was in trouble in such areas. The guy is inherently unstable. Just give him another 6 months.
    I am sure "events dear boy" will prevail.

    It is however like being in the relegation zone, nine points from safety with four games in hand and they are all away to top four clubs, none of whom are yet guaranteed a place in Europe.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    I am explaining to her what the set-up is. Train operator x in one country extending services into another country is not the same as that operator running things in that second country.

    GBR will manage the INFRASTRUCTURE in England, Wales and Scotland. It will not operate the trains in Wales and Scotland nor set the fares nor make the timetables as those are devolved. The PM's spokesperson is right that GBR will not be the train operator in the devolved nations - that doesn't mean English GBR trains can't run into that area. But they won't run things across the border. Even the timetable those services run to will be with the agreement of the devolved operators - they can't just turn up when they want to.
    1. I'm a bloke and 2. I never contended the above. As Leon said, a complete straw man by you.

    The claim that GBR "won't operate in Scotland" is demonstrably untrue – it's trains will serve Scottish stations, just as they will serve stations in Wales.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,782

    There's actually rather alot of work on charging infrastructure happening at the moment. Billions being spent on it. Just not very sexy as a news story.
    Of course.
    Be interesting to see how adequate it is when the numbers really start to take off.
    It's not the most complex of problems, so it might well be fine.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,852

    I'm not making any such thing. I haven't mentioned ticketing. I'm merely saying that the claim by the press officer that GBR will "operate only" in England is a nonsense. It is demonstrably untrue. Plenty of GBR trains will operate in Scotland as you yourself point out.

    What a needlessly aggressive and inaccurate post by you.
    GBR will not operate in Scotland. So says the government who are creating it. Train services contracted out by GBR will. There is a difference! You gave a TGV example - a French train crossing into Italy doesn't mean that SNCF operate Italian train services.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    TOPPING said:

    OK Team need help.

    Have just been for a bike ride. London (not central). Caned it around leafy west London and have come back gagging* as though something, dust or something, is in my throat. All is good now, so did a bit of turbo google and someone mentioned Lime trees can do this. Can they?

    *No melons were involved.

    So, you're saying you're hungover and want to blame a Lime tree?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    Which is the literal point that Liar's spokesperson was making which you said was incorrect. LNER / Avanti / Cross Country / TPE will still run across the border. But not set their fares or their timetables there. GBR's reach from an operational perspective ends at the Royal Border Bridge.
    They will be concessions under the GBR brand. They demonstrably WILL serve Scottish stations just as they do now.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,012

    Caroline Flint.
    Tony Blair...
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    They will be concessions under the GBR brand. They demonstrably WILL serve Scottish stations just as they do now.
    Even with a Sturgeon hard border?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Well if you want to look at Statistics like that, in 1939 there were 11,300,000 houses in Britain serving 41 million people - 3.6 people per house.

    There are now 27 million houses serving 68 million people - or 2.5 people per house.
    That’s a brilliant statistic, that does more than almost any other to illustrate the problem. I suspect the 1939 figure of 3.6 held up until about 1975.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    I am sure "events dear boy" will prevail.

    It is however like being in the relegation zone, nine points from safety with four games in hand and they are all away to top four clubs, none of whom are yet guaranteed a place in Europe.
    Perhaps you need to consult your own coments from a few months ago re-Bridgend and the impending Wales Assembly Election. The outcome proved to be a bit different!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    eek said:

    Rushcliffe is probably more Gosforth.

    In the Nottingham context Gateshead would be Derby
    Nope, Gateshead is a few metres across the Tyne from Newcastle City – part and parcel of the same city for all intents and purposes.

    Derby is separate from Nottingham, albeit not too far away.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,328

    My grandfather was a miner at Babbington.

    He was a meticulous timekeeper. One day he missed the bus. By the time he had could get the next bus, his shift had gone down - and were killed in an explosion.

    If he hadn't missed that bus - no thread header.
    Proof, if it were needed, that God is a Conservative.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,852

    Gateshead hasn't been in County Durham for almost half a century.

    Get over it.
    "What a needlessly aggressive and inaccurate post by you."

    Gateshead is in County Durham. It is not administered by Durham County Council. Which is not the same thing at all. Nor is 1974 the year you are looking for - Gateshead became a county borough in the 1880s.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,852
    edited May 2021

    1. I'm a bloke and 2. I never contended the above. As Leon said, a complete straw man by you.

    The claim that GBR "won't operate in Scotland" is demonstrably untrue – it's trains will serve Scottish stations, just as they will serve stations in Wales.
    GBR will not operate trains in England either. Or anywhere. As they are not going to be a train operator.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,511
    Sandpit said:

    That’s a brilliant statistic, that does more than almost any other to illustrate the problem. I suspect the 1939 figure of 3.6 held up until about 1975.
    I was wondering where my servants went to.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,724
    JBriskin3 said:

    So, you're saying you're hungover and want to blame a Lime tree?
    It surely wasn't that extra teeny weeny gin.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    edited May 2021
    TOPPING said:

    OK Team need help.

    Have just been for a bike ride. London (not central). Caned it around leafy west London and have come back gagging* as though something, dust or something, is in my throat. All is good now, so did a bit of turbo google and someone mentioned Lime trees can do this. Can they?

    *No melons were involved.

    I've been snuffling myself lately so had a look out of interest. But seems too early for limes. London - so plane trees? Other allergenogenic trees are available.

    https://www.ukallergy.com/pollen-allergy-peak-seasons-in-the-uk/
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255
    Nigelb said:

    In about five years electric cars ought to be significantly cheaper to manufacture than their ICE equivalents. The market will then do much of the rest, and if government doesn't provide for the charging infrastructure, whether directly or by subsidy/coercion, it will suffer the consequences.
    Its not just the infrastructure, it is the changes made to how we drive. Right now there are around 90,000 petrol and diesel pumps in the country. Filling up takes 3-4 minutes and there are still regular queues at many stations. The very best electric cars charge at the equivalent of between 30 and 80 miles per hour. So to get the equivalent of filling your car up you would have to charge for somewhere between 5 and 12 hours.

    Of course we all hope this will change but right now we are making plans based on technology that doesn't even exist.

    And before people go on about home charging, there are large parts of the country where that is just no practical as there is no drive on which to park your car or garage to put it in.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,367

    GBR will not operate in Scotland. So says the government who are creating it. Train services contracted out by GBR will. There is a difference! You gave a TGV example - a French train crossing into Italy doesn't mean that SNCF operate Italian train services.

    If they own the track, run some of the services, and have stations in Scotland then surely by any normal definition of the word operate GBR will be operating in Scotland.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    GBR will not operate in Scotland. So says the government who are creating it. Train services contracted out by GBR will. There is a difference! You gave a TGV example - a French train crossing into Italy doesn't mean that SNCF operate Italian train services.
    You are dancing on the head of pin. Train services contracted out by GBR are concessions to GBR and WILL serve Scotland. They will carry the GBR brand and arrive into Scottish stations. They will not stop at the border, divest themselves of all their passengers and round-up kilt-wearing locals sitting patiently for a train on the north bank of the River Tweed. Thus GBR will serve Scotland – demonstrably so given that its trains will arrive into Scottish stations.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,724
    Carnyx said:

    I've been snuffling myself lately so had a look out of interest. But seems too early for limes. London - so plane trees? Other allergogenic trees are available.

    https://www.ukallergy.com/pollen-allergy-peak-seasons-in-the-uk/
    Hmm thanks - will take a look. First time either in town or elsewhere. V strange. But thanks.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,697

    Gateshead hasn't been in County Durham for almost half a century.

    Get over it.
    Try going to Barnoldswick and telling the locals that they aren't in Yorkshire. They've got a bloody big flagpole in the middle of the town with a Yorkshire flag fluttering away.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,852

    Its not just the infrastructure, it is the changes made to how we drive. Right now there are around 90,000 petrol and diesel pumps in the country. Filling up takes 3-4 minutes and there are still regular queues at many stations. The very best electric cars charge at the equivalent of between 30 and 80 miles per hour. So to get the equivalent of filling your car up you would have to charge for somewhere between 5 and 12 hours.

    Of course we all hope this will change but right now we are making plans based on technology that doesn't even exist.

    And before people go on about home charging, there are large parts of the country where that is just no practical as there is no drive on which to park your car or garage to put it in.
    The reason why the Tesla experience is hassle free is that it is a unified network with no faff. Until all of the different operators stop pissing around with stand alone charging systems and setups it will never be a viable solution if we are going to have all cars electrified.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,511
    TOPPING said:

    OK Team need help.

    Have just been for a bike ride. London (not central). Caned it around leafy west London and have come back gagging* as though something, dust or something, is in my throat. All is good now, so did a bit of turbo google and someone mentioned Lime trees can do this. Can they?

    *No melons were involved.

    Yes, if you're alergic, but it could be lots of other things too.

    The route along the river through Fulham, Hammersmith and Chiswick down to Richmond is very nice.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,328
    justin124 said:

    Perhaps you need to consult your own coments from a few months ago re-Bridgend and the impending Wales Assembly Election. The outcome proved to be a bit different!
    Indeed. Miracles do sometimes happen.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,235
    Nigelb said:

    Of course.
    Be interesting to see how adequate it is when the numbers really start to take off.
    It's not the most complex of problems, so it might well be fine.
    The biggest problems are rip off pricing and poor usability.

    The difference between the Tesla superchargers and the other systems as a user experience is massive. With Tesla, plug in and go, pretty much. With the others, lots of fiddling around seems to be required.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,818

    I have to say that you’re extremely shit at ignoring him. Perhaps get a room and have a Women In Love style wrassle off?
    Just to be deadly serious for a second, I sense it's my flip style of posting that sometimes irritates the Captain, not so much the actual underlying sentiments.

    Eg, this one today, the supposedly 'patronizing' view that the less well off are voting Tory against their economic self-interest, this isn't a million miles away from his oft-stated (and imo correct) Remainiac view that lots of people were fooled into thinking Brexit will make them better off when it will do the opposite.

    Anyway, off now, Hard to drag myself away from such a great thread but needs must. I'm going to Waitrose and I promise not to peer into other shoppers' baskets and tell them that I've detected cognitive dissonance - they don't really want to buy that ridiculously overpriced Charlie Bigham steak & ale pie.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    edited May 2021
    TOPPING said:

    Hmm thanks - will take a look. First time either in town or elsewhere. V strange. But thanks.
    No guarantee that that particular site is reliable etc., of course, and in any case it seems to be a commercial medical clinic. But the general point is suggestive and worthy of further research.

    I wonder if the weather has meant the plants have been saving it up so to speak, like one or two of our PBers waiting for lockdown to ease? Our own local trees have come very suddenly into leaf this last week.

    PS ... and pollen everywhere, on all surfaces, floating on the water in the shed water butt, etc.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Sandpit said:

    That’s a brilliant statistic, that does more than almost any other to illustrate the problem. I suspect the 1939 figure of 3.6 held up until about 1975.
    Interestingly the fertility rate in the United Kingdom collapsed in the 1920s and 1930s. In 1915 the fertility rate was 2.84 children per woman, so a couple getting married then would have had themselves plus 3 children for a family of five typically by 1931.

    The change in fertility rate alone after that roughly accounts for one person fewer per house for families, so considering increasing divorces etc its somewhat surprising the gap isn't bigger!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,852

    You are dancing on the head of pin. Train services contracted out by GBR are concessions to GBR and WILL serve Scotland. They will carry the GBR brand and arrive into Scottish stations. They will not stop at the border, divest themselves of all their passengers and round-up kilt-wearing locals sitting patiently for a train on the north bank of the River Tweed. Thus GBR will serve Scotland – demonstrably so given that its trains will arrive into Scottish stations.
    Ultimately the arbiter is the government who are setting this up. GBR will own the tracks. And thats as far as their influence will go. Its about how you define "operate". GBR is to be an infrastructure business, an expanded Network Rail with responsibility for literally dictating passenger rail operations in England. It is their lack of doing this in Wales and Scotland that the government - who are creating this not you or I - are referring to.

    There will be challenges. Already we have seen what will become GBR concessions overloading the infrastructure north of the border. Unless power and capacity upgrades are carried out I can see more than just TPE having to run their bi-modes under the wires on diseasal due to lack of amps, they will just be told no.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Interestingly the fertility rate in the United Kingdom collapsed in the 1920s and 1930s. In 1915 the fertility rate was 2.84 children per woman, so a couple getting married then would have had themselves plus 3 children for a family of five typically by 1931.

    The change in fertility rate alone after that roughly accounts for one person fewer per house for families, so considering increasing divorces etc its somewhat surprising the gap isn't bigger!
    How are holiday homes dealt with, I wonder? Do I get counted twice over if I have a house and a holiday home?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    @RochdalePioneers

    Nope. It's in Tyne & Wear, which has been a ceremonial county since... er... 1974. As a two-second google would tell you.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyne_and_Wear

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,235

    The reason why the Tesla experience is hassle free is that it is a unified network with no faff. Until all of the different operators stop pissing around with stand alone charging systems and setups it will never be a viable solution if we are going to have all cars electrified.
    It doesn't take 5-12 hours to charge an electric car now - unless you are using a 13 amp connection.

    The service station model will change - which is why the chargers are being put in car parks.

    Incidentally, one thing that is being rolled out is lamppost charging - for overnight trickle charging. Since we are converting the street lights to LED, there is surplus of capacity at each lamppost.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Tyne and Wear (/ˌtaɪn  ...  ˈwɪər/) is a metropolitan county in North East England, situated around the mouths of the rivers Tyne and Wear. It came into existence in 1974 after the passage of the Local Government Act 1972. It consists of the five metropolitan boroughs of Newcastle upon Tyne, Gateshead, North Tyneside, South Tyneside and the City of Sunderland. The county is bordered to the north by Northumberland, to the south by County Durham and to the east of the county lies the North Sea. It is the smallest county in North East England by area, but by far the largest in terms of population.

    Prior to the 1974 reforms, the territory now covered by the county of Tyne and Wear straddled the border between the counties of Northumberland and Durham, the border being marked by the river Tyne; that territory also included five county boroughs.

    Tyne and Wear County Council, based at Sandyford House, was abolished in 1986 along with the other metropolitan county councils in England by the Local Government Act 1985, and so its districts (the metropolitan boroughs) have since functioned effectively as unitary authorities. However, the metropolitan county continues to exist in law and as a geographic frame of reference,[3][4][5] and as a ceremonial county.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,679
    TOPPING said:

    OK Team need help.

    Have just been for a bike ride. London (not central). Caned it around leafy west London and have come back gagging* as though something, dust or something, is in my throat. All is good now, so did a bit of turbo google and someone mentioned Lime trees can do this. Can they?

    *No melons were involved.

    Depends if you are sensitive and to what.

    I have an asthma diagnosis, and am sensitive to some tree pollen at its height sometimes.

    And lime is very productive (listen to the insects buzzing).

    So .. possible.

    Keep drinking water if you feel dusty, and wait a day or two.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,852

    The biggest problems are rip off pricing and poor usability.

    The difference between the Tesla superchargers and the other systems as a user experience is massive. With Tesla, plug in and go, pretty much. With the others, lots of fiddling around seems to be required.
    Price - yes. 69p a kWh for Ionity. When modern shite like the VW id3/4 is doing 2.something miles per kWh thats a ludicrous running cost. Yes you can get this down to 45p or 25p a kWh if you pay them a subscription but you need to do a LOT of miles to make that sensible vs petrol
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,724
    Fishing said:

    Yes, if you're alergic, but it could be lots of other things too.

    The route along the river through Fulham, Hammersmith and Chiswick down to Richmond is very nice.
    I could be scarred by that route as it is an acknowledged final practice marathon trip (18 miles from wherever to wherever past the bridges).

    I have recently taken to cycling (not today, and at a more sedate pace) along the canal out to Acton. It's great and really interesting to see the people, the boats with their firewood and coal piled on top, and the variety of those boats. Some of the time the water is scummy but often it's a delight.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,724
    Carnyx said:

    No guarantee that that particular site is reliable etc., of course, and in any case it seems to be a commercial medical clinic. But the general point is suggestive and worthy of further research.

    I wonder if the weather has meant the plants have been saving it up so to speak, like one or two of our PBers waiting for lockdown to ease? Our own local trees have come very suddenly into leaf this last week.

    PS ... and pollen everywhere, on all surfaces, floating on the water in the shed water butt, etc.
    Yes good point the pollen could just have said enough is enough.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    Try going to Barnoldswick and telling the locals that they aren't in Yorkshire. They've got a bloody big flagpole in the middle of the town with a Yorkshire flag fluttering away.
    Just because a bunch of ageing trainspotters say something is true doesn't make it so. Sorry.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,328
    Carnyx said:

    How are holiday homes dealt with, I wonder? Do I get counted twice over if I have a house and a holiday home?
    I am not sure, but if each property is in a marginal Conservative constituency, I think you get to vote Tory twice.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    glw said:

    If they own the track, run some of the services, and have stations in Scotland then surely by any normal definition of the word operate GBR will be operating in Scotland.

    Yes, in Rochdale's world if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a Scottish Wildcat.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,679
    edited May 2021

    Indeed. I thought we'd discovered that green space was vital during the lockdown?

    I'm also involved in managing more than one site for wildlife (wetland & bog) as my other half is an ecologist. The idea that we should just turn the place into urban sprawl is bonkers.

    Philip's mentality has reached our local Labour mayor though. She hated the sight of sheep on the approach to the town (she thought it made the place look backward) and the sheep field is now a massive empty (ie built speculatively) warehouse. A great improvement, I must say.
    Planning policy is quite strong on green space. Local Councils can designate areas without doing the whole Green Belt fandango.

    And afaik (every one i know does it) 10% of space on housing developments over 0.4 Ha (=1 acre) is required to be Open Space. Or you have to pay money to provide it somewhere nearby. That's been policy for donkeys' years.

    The first is in the NPPF. The second is the reality in every Council I have ever checked.

    Speaking about England.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,352
    kinabalu said:

    Just to be deadly serious for a second, I sense it's my flip style of posting that sometimes irritates the Captain, not so much the actual underlying sentiments.

    Eg, this one today, the supposedly 'patronizing' view that the less well off are voting Tory against their economic self-interest, this isn't a million miles away from his oft-stated (and imo correct) Remainiac view that lots of people were fooled into thinking Brexit will make them better off when it will do the opposite.

    Anyway, off now, Hard to drag myself away from such a great thread but needs must. I'm going to Waitrose and I promise not to peer into other shoppers' baskets and tell them that I've detected cognitive dissonance - they don't really want to buy that ridiculously overpriced Charlie Bigham steak & ale pie.
    I could never go along with a flip style of posting that sometimes irritates people..
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    GBR will not operate trains in England either. Or anywhere. As they are not going to be a train operator.
    Just like London Overground isn't a train operator? I mean, your pedantry is ludicrous even by the stupefying standards of PB.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    It has been a tough year for new starters. There are several of my colleagues who I have not yet met in person.
    New starters have had it tough this year, as have sales people trying to build relationships virtually.

    It’s going to be a very interesting social experiment to see what work and living patterns look like going forward. CFOs the world over have seen the scope for massive savings in office costs and travel budgets, and workers have realised that if they only have to be in the office a couple of days a week or one week a month, they can live a long way from the office.

    I suspect the new GB Rail are going to need to start putting on a lot more 5am routes south from Newcastle and east from Devon.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Leon said:

    Gallowgate:

    I found out today that my induction, etc in my new job will be all virtual. I'm a little disappointed to be honest — it's going to be very lonely!


    ++++++

    Sympathies. I reckon we will discover lots of downsides to "hybrid working" exactly like this. We have rushed into epochal changes without properly thinking

    I'm over 7 months into a new job. I have yet to meet anyone physically. My role has a European focus so who knows when I will actually be able to travel and meet face to face.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,852
    Of course the problem with outsiders telling locals that they are no longer Lancastrians / Yorkshire / Durham is that it tends to provoke all kinds of nasty reactions. Durham runs from the Tyne to the Tees, always has, always will do. Yorkshire is North, West and East despite South also being a new Ceremonial county. Same thing with T&W - giving it a Lord Lieutenant doesn't suddenly give it value.

    A ceremonial county is not a historic country. Twatting around with borders is a touchy subject in my part of England that seems to drive the natives absolutely mental. Did have to laugh though when His Eminence the Mayor for Life of Thornaby-on-Tees gobbed off about county names and had his sizeable arse handed to him by the Chair of the Yorkshire Ridings Socirty.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,782

    Price - yes. 69p a kWh for Ionity. When modern shite like the VW id3/4 is doing 2.something miles per kWh thats a ludicrous running cost. Yes you can get this down to 45p or 25p a kWh if you pay them a subscription but you need to do a LOT of miles to make that sensible vs petrol
    Early adopters always get caned - but they are generally the wealthiest anyway, so it's not the most massive of problems.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620


    Yes, in Rochdale's world if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a Scottish Wildcat.
    But we are here in the railway world. A Train Operating Company is the specific legal title for a company which actually runs trains.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,852

    Just like London Overground isn't a train operator? I mean, your pedantry is ludicrous even by the stupefying standards of PB.
    London Overground is devolved. Like Scotrail, TfW etc it will not be under the remit of GBR. Its timetable, its fares, its responsibility will be nothing to do with GBR.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,572

    Derby is separate from Nottingham, albeit not too far away.
    Brian Clough Mega-city.....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,538

    London Overground is devolved. Like Scotrail, TfW etc it will not be under the remit of GBR. Its timetable, its fares, its responsibility will be nothing to do with GBR.
    DfT Rail doesn't quite have the same ring to it. ;)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,834

    Just because a bunch of ageing trainspotters say something is true doesn't make it so. Sorry.
    Just because local government boundaries say something is true doesn't make it so either.

    We used to be perfectly comfortable with this. No-one objected to Sheffield being in Yorkshire or Oldham being in Lancashire before the 70s, even though the repsective county councils had no say over those towns.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,333

    The biggest problems are rip off pricing and poor usability.

    The difference between the Tesla superchargers and the other systems as a user experience is massive. With Tesla, plug in and go, pretty much. With the others, lots of fiddling around seems to be required.
    The difference is nowhere near as big as it was even 12 months ago. As long you've got accounts with ecotricity and PolarPlus you're fine.

    BMW, Merc, Ford and VAG are collaborating on the Europe wide Ionity charging network specifically to destroy Tesla's competitive advantage in that area.

    Tesla aren't in trouble yet but VAG in particular are coming for them very hard.
This discussion has been closed.