At GE2019 LAB was led by a man who had negative ratings even amongst those who had voted for the par

First.

I thought that UVDL's stance was that the details of the rollout were an EU member responsibility - nothing to do with here.

--------------

CarlottaVance said:

If their vaccine supply continues to struggle and B117 cases rise describing the 12 week gap as “too risky” may be another unfortunate intervention

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1364488943765508096?s=20

Lotus
(1.2.3)

India 1.84 / 1.85
England 3.2 / 3.25
Draw 6.6 / 6.8

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/en/cricket/test-matches/india-v-england-betting-30291416

It was Corbyn's reaction to the Salisbury that destroyed Corbyn's rating irrevocably.

I think every party in the Commons, from the Tories, most of Labour, the Lib Dems, the SNP, Plaid, the Irish mobs, and Greens all said it was the Russians, but not Jez.

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

We did something similar in the first test of the 1993 tour and got absolutely smashed.

https://twitter.com/Cricket_Mann/status/1364495467770490881

You still reckon not to lay the draw, because of the potential fog? It's at 4.1/4.2 at the moment.

I'm looking at the weather forecasts and the weather should be fine.

Malmesbury said:

MattW said:

First.

I thought that UVDL's stance was that the details of the rollout were an EU member responsibility - nothing to do with here.

--------------

CarlottaVance said:

If their vaccine supply continues to struggle and B117 cases rise describing the 12 week gap as “too risky” may be another unfortunate intervention

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1364488943765508096?s=20

The medium pace, medium spin line from the EU is that only full vaccinations count.

No half-measures, und kein britische Dreck!

TheScreamingEagles said:

We did something similar in the first test of the 1993 tour and got absolutely smashed.

https://twitter.com/Cricket_Mann/status/1364495467770490881

Which side knows their own conditions better? I can see Root getting plenty of bowling in...

MarqueeMark said:

Alanbrooke said:

Sturgeon resigned yet ?

Wait until teatime.

IF (planet-sized if, admittedly) Sturgeon has to fall on her sword/gets pushed under the bus - who replaces her? Who goes with her? And how much (have to add "if at all" I suppose) does it hurt the case for independence?

Seems the case made by Salmond is that a criminal prosecution was concocted out of his, er, forceful but lawful sexual advances - in order to finish his career/cement that of a rival. And the Scottish Establishment has been bent all out of shape in a ludicrous/desperate effort to support/save that rival. If that allegation can be stood up, there must surely be some more criminal trials?

Neil Lennon for First Minister or perhaps Alex Salmond as the new manager of Celtic.

rkrkrk said:

Can we have a thread header on this Salmond/Sturgeon thing please? I honestly have no idea what's going on.

Read Macbeth, same plot

Andy_JS said:

Are we heading in the same direction as this? Not able to do anything without scanning a QR code:


”David Rennie, Beijing bureau chief of The Economist, recently gave an astonishingly candid account of current ZeroCovid life in the Chinese capital:

“China’s strategy, from the start, was to have no infections at all… Still in Beijing, where we have hardly any cases, every time you step outside your door you have to use a smartphone to scan a QR code — every shop, every taxi, every bus, every metro station. You have no privacy at all — it’s all built around this electronic system of contact tracing. To leave Beijing you have to have a Covid test, to come back in you have to have a Covid test…. We basically don’t have the virus here, but the flip side is that they are keeping this place locked down as tight as a drum… It’s very hard to know where Covid containment starts and a Communist police state with an obsession with control kicks in.””

https://unherd.com/2021/02/inside-the-zero-covid-campaign/

No, because only North Korea can deliver a zero covid strategy.

But I do find it amusing.

People complain about lockdown then the same people complain about things that can and will end lockdown.

MarqueeMark said:

Alanbrooke said:

Sturgeon resigned yet ?

Wait until teatime.

IF (planet-sized if, admittedly) Sturgeon has to fall on her sword/gets pushed under the bus - who replaces her? Who goes with her? And how much (have to add "if at all" I suppose) does it hurt the case for independence?

Seems the case made by Salmond is that a criminal prosecution was concocted out of his, er, forceful but lawful sexual advances - in order to finish his career/cement that of a rival. And the Scottish Establishment has been bent all out of shape in a ludicrous/desperate effort to support/save that rival. If that allegation can be stood up, there must surely be some more criminal trials?

Can someone with a good contact at Betfair ask them to put up a "Scottish First Minister after Nicola Sturgeon" market?

Just putting the market up in itself, might be newsworthy...

Stocky said:

Andy_JS said:

India 1.84 / 1.85
England 3.2 / 3.25
Draw 6.6 / 6.8

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/en/cricket/test-matches/india-v-england-betting-30291416

Where is the value?

Cant see any atm.

FPT - I love the meta of Cannonball Run where Roger Moore plays a character called Seymour Goldfarb Junior who identifies himself as Roger Moore, who behaves exactly like James Bond and drives a DB5.

FPT:

Floater said:
Anyone had the Oxford jab?

How bad are the side effects - dealing with a wife who suffers from anxiety at best of times andwho is wobbling after seeing reports on facebook.


@Floater

Yes, I had the Oxford jab and had quite a strong reaction to it. My sister suffers from anxiety so I have some understanding of that. Here's what I can say.

The reaction wasn't pleasant, but nothing unusual for a mild illness and all described in the data sheet. It started about 15 hours after the jab: injection site swelled & was tight, hard & tender; I had aches & shivers, then a high-ish temp (101F, ~38C). The temp came down within 24 hours, then was just feeling mildly flu-ey plus intermittent nausea. Almost all of that resolved in about a week, except for occasional nausea. It's nearly two weeks since I had the jab. The swelling in my arm has been slowly reducing and is now almost gone.

I found the swelling in my arm reassuring because it showed my body was reacting to the vaccine and therefore reactions in other ways were highly likely, so I wasn't worried about the other symptoms.

I also found that xkcd cartoon, which compares the vaccination to a Star Wars episode, really encouraging because it gave me an amusing view of what was happening in my body. (Link below; it's about mRNA vaccines, but that doesn't really matter.)

I gather a strong reaction to Oxford/AZ is more likely in younger people. I'm 72, and am the only one I know personally who's had a strong reaction; also among my friends no-one else knows anyone besides myself who's had a strong reaction. However my god-daughter who is 28 reports that many of the people who've had the AZ in her circles have had a strong enough reaction to be off work for a few days. (I don't know what work she does now; she used to be a teaching assistant but maybe she's moved into care work.)

I would echo what @rcs1000 says; it's better than getting Covid. If you do have a strong reaction, be grateful that your body is fighting fit enough to get to action stations and prepare itself to fight off the Covid.

All the best to you and your wife.

https://xkcd.com/2425/

Good morning, everyone.

Casino_Royale said:

FPT - I love the meta of Cannonball Run where Roger Moore plays a character called Seymour Goldfarb Junior who identifies himself as Roger Moore, who behaves exactly like James Bond and drives a DB5.

And who didn’t have a bedroom wall poster in the ‘80s, of a black Lamborghini Countach and a red cat-suited Farah Fawcett?

More on "NI was just a bargaining chip to the EU":

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1364498145749708800?s=20
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1364498622101016576?s=20

Sandpit said:

Casino_Royale said:

FPT - I love the meta of Cannonball Run where Roger Moore plays a character called Seymour Goldfarb Junior who identifies himself as Roger Moore, who behaves exactly like James Bond and drives a DB5.

And who didn’t have a bedroom wall poster in the ‘80s, of a black Lamborghini Countach and a red cat-suited Farah Fawcett?

My teenage lust interest was Sally James off of Tiswas. (Should I be admitting this?)

Sandpit said:

Casino_Royale said:

FPT - I love the meta of Cannonball Run where Roger Moore plays a character called Seymour Goldfarb Junior who identifies himself as Roger Moore, who behaves exactly like James Bond and drives a DB5.

And who didn’t have a bedroom wall poster in the ‘80s, of a black Lamborghini Countach and a red cat-suited Farah Fawcett?

Women?

OK. A statistically majoritarian percentage of younger women.

(We now find out which respectable PB ladies aspired to catsuits and Ferraris.)

Stocky said:

Sandpit said:

Casino_Royale said:

FPT - I love the meta of Cannonball Run where Roger Moore plays a character called Seymour Goldfarb Junior who identifies himself as Roger Moore, who behaves exactly like James Bond and drives a DB5.

And who didn’t have a bedroom wall poster in the ‘80s, of a black Lamborghini Countach and a red cat-suited Farah Fawcett?

My teenage lust interest was Sally James off of Tiswas. (Should I be admitting this?)

Olivia Newton John for me and the tennis poster bought from Athena in Brighton.

AnneJGP said:

FPT:

Floater said:
Anyone had the Oxford jab?

How bad are the side effects - dealing with a wife who suffers from anxiety at best of times andwho is wobbling after seeing reports on facebook.


@Floater

Yes, I had the Oxford jab and had quite a strong reaction to it. My sister suffers from anxiety so I have some understanding of that. Here's what I can say.

The reaction wasn't pleasant, but nothing unusual for a mild illness and all described in the data sheet. It started about 15 hours after the jab: injection site swelled & was tight, hard & tender; I had aches & shivers, then a high-ish temp (101F, ~38C). The temp came down within 24 hours, then was just feeling mildly flu-ey plus intermittent nausea. Almost all of that resolved in about a week, except for occasional nausea. It's nearly two weeks since I had the jab. The swelling in my arm has been slowly reducing and is now almost gone.

I found the swelling in my arm reassuring because it showed my body was reacting to the vaccine and therefore reactions in other ways were highly likely, so I wasn't worried about the other symptoms.

I also found that xkcd cartoon, which compares the vaccination to a Star Wars episode, really encouraging because it gave me an amusing view of what was happening in my body. (Link below; it's about mRNA vaccines, but that doesn't really matter.)

I gather a strong reaction to Oxford/AZ is more likely in younger people. I'm 72, and am the only one I know personally who's had a strong reaction; also among my friends no-one else knows anyone besides myself who's had a strong reaction. However my god-daughter who is 28 reports that many of the people who've had the AZ in her circles have had a strong enough reaction to be off work for a few days. (I don't know what work she does now; she used to be a teaching assistant but maybe she's moved into care work.)

I would echo what @rcs1000 says; it's better than getting Covid. If you do have a strong reaction, be grateful that your body is fighting fit enough to get to action stations and prepare itself to fight off the Covid.

All the best to you and your wife.

https://xkcd.com/2425/

Good morning, everyone.

Mrs Romford is having the OAZ vaccine- she's young fit and healthy and said the response was like two days of manflu. But then it goes away and yes- that's how you know it's working and it's way better than getting Covid.

And, as always, xkcd rocks.

Burgessian said:

rkrkrk said:

Can we have a thread header on this Salmond/Sturgeon thing please? I honestly have no idea what's going on.

Read this.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/alex-salmond-inquiry-former-first-ministers-allegations-of-a-conspiracy-within-the-scottish-government-and-snp-to-get-him-sent-to-prison-are-extraordinary-murdo-fraser-msp-3144433


The SNP regime is utterly rotten to the core having suborned the instruments of the state.

"Perhaps most concerning of all is the role of the Crown Office. In any liberal democracy where the rule of law is respected, the prosecution service should be regarded as beyond reproach. Yet, only yesterday, we saw the Crown Office threatening the Scottish Parliament with criminal proceedings if elements of Mr Salmond’s evidence were not withdrawn, despite this having been already put in the public domain.

"In his written submission, Salmond claims that the Crown Office acted under political influence, and that the Lord Advocate is deeply compromised between his twin roles as head of prosecutions and chief government legal advisor. He claims that it is actively “shielding some of the most powerful people in the country”. The action taken yesterday would suggest that the Crown Office is out to prove his case for him.

"We should not forget that this is the same Crown Office which, in an unprecedented failure in Scottish legal history, has admitted the malicious prosecution of the former Rangers administrators, a scandal likely to cost the Scottish tax payer in excess of £100 million. No-one has yet been held responsible for that scandal. There is something very, very wrong here."

I'm spookily reminded of people like Robert Maxwell and Trump who invariably have recourse to the threat of legal action to close down inquiries and intimidate journalists.

"-This is turnin' into a hell of a mess, ain't it, Sheriff?
-If it isn't, it'll do until the mess gets here"

NickPalmer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Are we heading in the same direction as this? Not able to do anything without scanning a QR code:


”David Rennie, Beijing bureau chief of The Economist, recently gave an astonishingly candid account of current ZeroCovid life in the Chinese capital:

“China’s strategy, from the start, was to have no infections at all… Still in Beijing, where we have hardly any cases, every time you step outside your door you have to use a smartphone to scan a QR code — every shop, every taxi, every bus, every metro station. You have no privacy at all — it’s all built around this electronic system of contact tracing. To leave Beijing you have to have a Covid test, to come back in you have to have a Covid test…. We basically don’t have the virus here, but the flip side is that they are keeping this place locked down as tight as a drum… It’s very hard to know where Covid containment starts and a Communist police state with an obsession with control kicks in.””

https://unherd.com/2021/02/inside-the-zero-covid-campaign/

No, because only North Korea can deliver a zero covid strategy.

But I do find it amusing.

People complain about lockdown then the same people complain about things that can and will end lockdown.

If I need a QR code to enter Sainsbury or hop on a bus but in return can be confident I won't catch Covid that's fine with me. If MI5 would like to know that I've visited Sainsbury, ditto. Now I'm at the why-worry end of the spectrum about stuff like this, not least since I'm quite sure that if MI5 want to keep tabs on me they can do so anyway, but I actually think most people will feel the same, the main resistance coming from people who don't have smartphones or find QR codes fiddly. Sites like Unherd think that there is no essential difference between freedom from oppression (democracy, rule of law for all, right to express any legal opinion, independent courts) and freedom from saying they've gone to Sainsbury - slippery slope and all that. I don't think most people think like that.

I know you were in favour of ID cards Nick - I think you were at one time advocating voluntary ID cards - but if Sainsburys demanded a QR scan, I'd go to Aldi. If Aldi demanded a QR scan, I'd go to the local greengrocer. If the pub demands a QR scan, I'm staying at home. I'm not going to starve to death, but I am going to inconvenience myself quite a lot in order for the state not to know where I've been. I absolutely do not trust them. And I work for the public sector and generally vote Conservative!

NickPalmer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Are we heading in the same direction as this? Not able to do anything without scanning a QR code:


”David Rennie, Beijing bureau chief of The Economist, recently gave an astonishingly candid account of current ZeroCovid life in the Chinese capital:

“China’s strategy, from the start, was to have no infections at all… Still in Beijing, where we have hardly any cases, every time you step outside your door you have to use a smartphone to scan a QR code — every shop, every taxi, every bus, every metro station. You have no privacy at all — it’s all built around this electronic system of contact tracing. To leave Beijing you have to have a Covid test, to come back in you have to have a Covid test…. We basically don’t have the virus here, but the flip side is that they are keeping this place locked down as tight as a drum… It’s very hard to know where Covid containment starts and a Communist police state with an obsession with control kicks in.””

https://unherd.com/2021/02/inside-the-zero-covid-campaign/

No, because only North Korea can deliver a zero covid strategy.

But I do find it amusing.

People complain about lockdown then the same people complain about things that can and will end lockdown.

If I need a QR code to enter Sainsbury or hop on a bus but in return can be confident I won't catch Covid that's fine with me. If MI5 would like to know that I've visited Sainsbury, ditto. Now I'm at the why-worry end of the spectrum about stuff like this, not least since I'm quite sure that if MI5 want to keep tabs on me they can do so anyway, but I actually think most people will feel the same, the main resistance coming from people who don't have smartphones or find QR codes fiddly. Sites like Unherd think that there is no essential difference between freedom from oppression (democracy, rule of law for all, right to express any legal opinion, independent courts) and freedom from saying they've gone to Sainsbury - slippery slope and all that. I don't think most people think like that.

I think the public will be cautious about things whilst Covid-19 is still about in the wider world.

I expect plenty of people will carry hand sanitiser as standard for the near future, and other such mitigations.

As my friend said, you really don't want to be the person that sneezes on public transport or in a supermarket in the next few months.

AnneJGP said:

FPT:

Floater said:
Anyone had the Oxford jab?

How bad are the side effects - dealing with a wife who suffers from anxiety at best of times and who is wobbling after seeing reports on facebook.

@Floater

I had the AZ jab - no noticeable reaction, except maybe a very slight tenderness for 1 night sleeping on it.

I have had serious treatment last year for my immune system, however all blood factors (and I mean *all* of them - they profile dozens) are back in normal range since the autumn.

Early 50s.

IMO JDI.

Sandpit said:

Jonathan said:

rcs1000 said:

Question for PB movie buffs:

Is 2001 the worst film ever? Or were there others that were even more boring and pointless?

Whilst Canonball Run is arguably the greatest film ever made, Canonball Run 2 was entertainingly derivative, even John Candy couldn’t save Speed Zone.

One of the most iconic intro sequences of any movie - and an event that still inspires a few mad Americans today, especially over the past year when the roads got somewhat quieter than usual!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eU8j4MeJ4I

It's the other way round. The film was inspired by the Brock Yates run in the 70s which was inspired by the antics of Erwin "Cannon Ball" Baker in the 30s.

TheScreamingEagles said:

NickPalmer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Are we heading in the same direction as this? Not able to do anything without scanning a QR code:


”David Rennie, Beijing bureau chief of The Economist, recently gave an astonishingly candid account of current ZeroCovid life in the Chinese capital:

“China’s strategy, from the start, was to have no infections at all… Still in Beijing, where we have hardly any cases, every time you step outside your door you have to use a smartphone to scan a QR code — every shop, every taxi, every bus, every metro station. You have no privacy at all — it’s all built around this electronic system of contact tracing. To leave Beijing you have to have a Covid test, to come back in you have to have a Covid test…. We basically don’t have the virus here, but the flip side is that they are keeping this place locked down as tight as a drum… It’s very hard to know where Covid containment starts and a Communist police state with an obsession with control kicks in.””

https://unherd.com/2021/02/inside-the-zero-covid-campaign/

No, because only North Korea can deliver a zero covid strategy.

But I do find it amusing.

People complain about lockdown then the same people complain about things that can and will end lockdown.

If I need a QR code to enter Sainsbury or hop on a bus but in return can be confident I won't catch Covid that's fine with me. If MI5 would like to know that I've visited Sainsbury, ditto. Now I'm at the why-worry end of the spectrum about stuff like this, not least since I'm quite sure that if MI5 want to keep tabs on me they can do so anyway, but I actually think most people will feel the same, the main resistance coming from people who don't have smartphones or find QR codes fiddly. Sites like Unherd think that there is no essential difference between freedom from oppression (democracy, rule of law for all, right to express any legal opinion, independent courts) and freedom from saying they've gone to Sainsbury - slippery slope and all that. I don't think most people think like that.

I think the public will be cautious about things whilst Covid-19 is still about in the wider world.

I expect plenty of people will carry hand sanitiser as standard for the near future, and other such mitigations.

As my friend said, you really don't want to be the person that sneezes on public transport or in a supermarket in the next few months.

I'm fairly certain that sneezing is not one of the symptoms of C-19. Doesn't mean you are wrong though: any sign of illness is going to be as popular as Ken Livingstone at a Bar Mitzva.

AnneJGP said:

FPT:

Floater said:
Anyone had the Oxford jab?

How bad are the side effects - dealing with a wife who suffers from anxiety at best of times andwho is wobbling after seeing reports on facebook.


@Floater

Yes, I had the Oxford jab and had quite a strong reaction to it. My sister suffers from anxiety so I have some understanding of that. Here's what I can say.

The reaction wasn't pleasant, but nothing unusual for a mild illness and all described in the data sheet. It started about 15 hours after the jab: injection site swelled & was tight, hard & tender; I had aches & shivers, then a high-ish temp (101F, ~38C). The temp came down within 24 hours, then was just feeling mildly flu-ey plus intermittent nausea. Almost all of that resolved in about a week, except for occasional nausea. It's nearly two weeks since I had the jab. The swelling in my arm has been slowly reducing and is now almost gone.

I found the swelling in my arm reassuring because it showed my body was reacting to the vaccine and therefore reactions in other ways were highly likely, so I wasn't worried about the other symptoms.

I also found that xkcd cartoon, which compares the vaccination to a Star Wars episode, really encouraging because it gave me an amusing view of what was happening in my body. (Link below; it's about mRNA vaccines, but that doesn't really matter.)

I gather a strong reaction to Oxford/AZ is more likely in younger people. I'm 72, and am the only one I know personally who's had a strong reaction; also among my friends no-one else knows anyone besides myself who's had a strong reaction. However my god-daughter who is 28 reports that many of the people who've had the AZ in her circles have had a strong enough reaction to be off work for a few days. (I don't know what work she does now; she used to be a teaching assistant but maybe she's moved into care work.)

I would echo what @rcs1000 says; it's better than getting Covid. If you do have a strong reaction, be grateful that your body is fighting fit enough to get to action stations and prepare itself to fight off the Covid.

All the best to you and your wife.

https://xkcd.com/2425/

Good morning, everyone.

For balance, the two people I know who had it felt a bit rough for about half a day the day afterwards. That's all.

O/T

Eyes Wide Shut was hated by most of the critics when it first came out but it seems to get better ratings now. 75% from critics, 74% audience.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/eyes_wide_shut

"What I Learned After Watching Eyes Wide Shut 100 Times
By Lila Shapiro"

https://www.vulture.com/2019/07/what-i-learned-after-watching-eyes-wide-shut-100-times.html

Fysics_Teacher said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

NickPalmer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Are we heading in the same direction as this? Not able to do anything without scanning a QR code:


”David Rennie, Beijing bureau chief of The Economist, recently gave an astonishingly candid account of current ZeroCovid life in the Chinese capital:

“China’s strategy, from the start, was to have no infections at all… Still in Beijing, where we have hardly any cases, every time you step outside your door you have to use a smartphone to scan a QR code — every shop, every taxi, every bus, every metro station. You have no privacy at all — it’s all built around this electronic system of contact tracing. To leave Beijing you have to have a Covid test, to come back in you have to have a Covid test…. We basically don’t have the virus here, but the flip side is that they are keeping this place locked down as tight as a drum… It’s very hard to know where Covid containment starts and a Communist police state with an obsession with control kicks in.””

https://unherd.com/2021/02/inside-the-zero-covid-campaign/

No, because only North Korea can deliver a zero covid strategy.

But I do find it amusing.

People complain about lockdown then the same people complain about things that can and will end lockdown.

If I need a QR code to enter Sainsbury or hop on a bus but in return can be confident I won't catch Covid that's fine with me. If MI5 would like to know that I've visited Sainsbury, ditto. Now I'm at the why-worry end of the spectrum about stuff like this, not least since I'm quite sure that if MI5 want to keep tabs on me they can do so anyway, but I actually think most people will feel the same, the main resistance coming from people who don't have smartphones or find QR codes fiddly. Sites like Unherd think that there is no essential difference between freedom from oppression (democracy, rule of law for all, right to express any legal opinion, independent courts) and freedom from saying they've gone to Sainsbury - slippery slope and all that. I don't think most people think like that.

I think the public will be cautious about things whilst Covid-19 is still about in the wider world.

I expect plenty of people will carry hand sanitiser as standard for the near future, and other such mitigations.

As my friend said, you really don't want to be the person that sneezes on public transport or in a supermarket in the next few months.

I'm fairly certain that sneezing is not one of the symptoms of C-19. Doesn't mean you are wrong though: any sign of illness is going to be as popular as Ken Livingstone at a Bar Mitzva.

It is going to be a grim summer for those of us who suffer from hayfever.

MattW said:

AnneJGP said:

FPT:

Floater said:
Anyone had the Oxford jab?

How bad are the side effects - dealing with a wife who suffers from anxiety at best of times and who is wobbling after seeing reports on facebook.

@Floater

I had the AZ jab - no noticeable reaction, except maybe a very slight tenderness for 1 night sleeping on it.

I have had serious treatment last year for my immune system, however all blood factors (and I mean *all* of them - they profile dozens) are back in normal range since the autumn.

Early 50s.

IMO JDI.

Man flu in my case (late 70s), but a good friend had a severe reaction, even passing out. Though that seems to be very rare.

MattW said:

AnneJGP said:

FPT:

Floater said:
Anyone had the Oxford jab?

How bad are the side effects - dealing with a wife who suffers from anxiety at best of times and who is wobbling after seeing reports on facebook.

@Floater

I had the AZ jab - no noticeable reaction, except maybe a very slight tenderness for 1 night sleeping on it.

I have had serious treatment last year for my immune system, however all blood factors (and I mean *all* of them - they profile dozens) are back in normal range since the autumn.

Early 50s.

IMO JDI.

Mrs Gadly and I (both group 6) were Pfizered yesterday. Last night she was running warm and slightly out of it, whereas I was fine. Naturally, I am now concerned that my jab was duff!

TheScreamingEagles said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

NickPalmer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Are we heading in the same direction as this? Not able to do anything without scanning a QR code:


”David Rennie, Beijing bureau chief of The Economist, recently gave an astonishingly candid account of current ZeroCovid life in the Chinese capital:

“China’s strategy, from the start, was to have no infections at all… Still in Beijing, where we have hardly any cases, every time you step outside your door you have to use a smartphone to scan a QR code — every shop, every taxi, every bus, every metro station. You have no privacy at all — it’s all built around this electronic system of contact tracing. To leave Beijing you have to have a Covid test, to come back in you have to have a Covid test…. We basically don’t have the virus here, but the flip side is that they are keeping this place locked down as tight as a drum… It’s very hard to know where Covid containment starts and a Communist police state with an obsession with control kicks in.””

https://unherd.com/2021/02/inside-the-zero-covid-campaign/

No, because only North Korea can deliver a zero covid strategy.

But I do find it amusing.

People complain about lockdown then the same people complain about things that can and will end lockdown.

If I need a QR code to enter Sainsbury or hop on a bus but in return can be confident I won't catch Covid that's fine with me. If MI5 would like to know that I've visited Sainsbury, ditto. Now I'm at the why-worry end of the spectrum about stuff like this, not least since I'm quite sure that if MI5 want to keep tabs on me they can do so anyway, but I actually think most people will feel the same, the main resistance coming from people who don't have smartphones or find QR codes fiddly. Sites like Unherd think that there is no essential difference between freedom from oppression (democracy, rule of law for all, right to express any legal opinion, independent courts) and freedom from saying they've gone to Sainsbury - slippery slope and all that. I don't think most people think like that.

I think the public will be cautious about things whilst Covid-19 is still about in the wider world.

I expect plenty of people will carry hand sanitiser as standard for the near future, and other such mitigations.

As my friend said, you really don't want to be the person that sneezes on public transport or in a supermarket in the next few months.

I'm fairly certain that sneezing is not one of the symptoms of C-19. Doesn't mean you are wrong though: any sign of illness is going to be as popular as Ken Livingstone at a Bar Mitzva.

It is going to be a grim summer for those of us who suffer from hayfever.

I sometimes sneeze when suddenly exposed to bright sunlight (e.g. going though a door from a dart interior to a sunlit street). I'm not sure if that means I'm allergic to sunlight.

Stuartinromford said:

AnneJGP said:

FPT:

Floater said:
Anyone had the Oxford jab?

How bad are the side effects - dealing with a wife who suffers from anxiety at best of times andwho is wobbling after seeing reports on facebook.


@Floater

Yes, I had the Oxford jab and had quite a strong reaction to it. My sister suffers from anxiety so I have some understanding of that. Here's what I can say.

The reaction wasn't pleasant, but nothing unusual for a mild illness and all described in the data sheet. It started about 15 hours after the jab: injection site swelled & was tight, hard & tender; I had aches & shivers, then a high-ish temp (101F, ~38C). The temp came down within 24 hours, then was just feeling mildly flu-ey plus intermittent nausea. Almost all of that resolved in about a week, except for occasional nausea. It's nearly two weeks since I had the jab. The swelling in my arm has been slowly reducing and is now almost gone.

I found the swelling in my arm reassuring because it showed my body was reacting to the vaccine and therefore reactions in other ways were highly likely, so I wasn't worried about the other symptoms.

I also found that xkcd cartoon, which compares the vaccination to a Star Wars episode, really encouraging because it gave me an amusing view of what was happening in my body. (Link below; it's about mRNA vaccines, but that doesn't really matter.)

I gather a strong reaction to Oxford/AZ is more likely in younger people. I'm 72, and am the only one I know personally who's had a strong reaction; also among my friends no-one else knows anyone besides myself who's had a strong reaction. However my god-daughter who is 28 reports that many of the people who've had the AZ in her circles have had a strong enough reaction to be off work for a few days. (I don't know what work she does now; she used to be a teaching assistant but maybe she's moved into care work.)

I would echo what @rcs1000 says; it's better than getting Covid. If you do have a strong reaction, be grateful that your body is fighting fit enough to get to action stations and prepare itself to fight off the Covid.

All the best to you and your wife.

https://xkcd.com/2425/

Good morning, everyone.

Mrs Romford is having the OAZ vaccine- she's young fit and healthy and said the response was like two days of manflu. But then it goes away and yes- that's how you know it's working and it's way better than getting Covid.

And, as always, xkcd rocks.

It is, apparently, often related to how bad your reaction would have been to having covid itself.

An unpleasant reaction to the vaccine may well indicate a very very unpleasant time of things indeed if you'd had the virus itself.

TheScreamingEagles said:

It was Corbyn's reaction to the Salisbury that destroyed Corbyn's rating irrevocably.

I think every party in the Commons, from the Tories, most of Labour, the Lib Dems, the SNP, Plaid, the Irish mobs, and Greens all said it was the Russians, but not Jez.

Agreed - and it was how this then framed how people viewed his other positions. Most people on here would say that Corbyn has a typical Stop the War anti-western influence mindset, and that it is consistent. How many voters pay attention to this kind of thing though? However Salisbury was so offensive to most British but Corbyn didn't want to blame Russia, and this highlighted his pro Russia, pro Iran, anti America, anti Israel worldview. People could see that Corbynism wasn't just nationalisation, and huge public spending but also this unconventional worldview.

I think Mike does have a point on Starmer that he is streets ahead of Corbyn, andI could see Labour shedding votes in all the right places and him getting more seats on less votes

Andy_Cooke said:

Stuartinromford said:

AnneJGP said:

FPT:

Floater said:
Anyone had the Oxford jab?

How bad are the side effects - dealing with a wife who suffers from anxiety at best of times andwho is wobbling after seeing reports on facebook.


@Floater

Yes, I had the Oxford jab and had quite a strong reaction to it. My sister suffers from anxiety so I have some understanding of that. Here's what I can say.

The reaction wasn't pleasant, but nothing unusual for a mild illness and all described in the data sheet. It started about 15 hours after the jab: injection site swelled & was tight, hard & tender; I had aches & shivers, then a high-ish temp (101F, ~38C). The temp came down within 24 hours, then was just feeling mildly flu-ey plus intermittent nausea. Almost all of that resolved in about a week, except for occasional nausea. It's nearly two weeks since I had the jab. The swelling in my arm has been slowly reducing and is now almost gone.

I found the swelling in my arm reassuring because it showed my body was reacting to the vaccine and therefore reactions in other ways were highly likely, so I wasn't worried about the other symptoms.

I also found that xkcd cartoon, which compares the vaccination to a Star Wars episode, really encouraging because it gave me an amusing view of what was happening in my body. (Link below; it's about mRNA vaccines, but that doesn't really matter.)

I gather a strong reaction to Oxford/AZ is more likely in younger people. I'm 72, and am the only one I know personally who's had a strong reaction; also among my friends no-one else knows anyone besides myself who's had a strong reaction. However my god-daughter who is 28 reports that many of the people who've had the AZ in her circles have had a strong enough reaction to be off work for a few days. (I don't know what work she does now; she used to be a teaching assistant but maybe she's moved into care work.)

I would echo what @rcs1000 says; it's better than getting Covid. If you do have a strong reaction, be grateful that your body is fighting fit enough to get to action stations and prepare itself to fight off the Covid.

All the best to you and your wife.

https://xkcd.com/2425/

Good morning, everyone.

Mrs Romford is having the OAZ vaccine- she's young fit and healthy and said the response was like two days of manflu. But then it goes away and yes- that's how you know it's working and it's way better than getting Covid.

And, as always, xkcd rocks.

It is, apparently, often related to how bad your reaction would have been to having covid itself.

An unpleasant reaction to the vaccine may well indicate a very very unpleasant time of things indeed if you'd had the virus itself.

How would you test that without a time machine and access to an alternative universe?

IanB2 said:

Andy_JS said:

This ground in Ahmedabad has a capacity of 132,000. Lords is 30,000.

Wow.

I remember when the then Chairman of Royal Mail came up with the idea of addressing all postmen and women in one place at the same time, and despite being told this was not a practicable suggestion (for a set of reasons that will be blindingly obvious to the reader) insisted that someone go away and look into it. They came back with the answer that the only venue with sufficient capacity was the Grand Mosque at Mecca and that would require the workforce to convert to Islam and some potentially tricky negotiations to reserve the venue.

That cricket ground isn't quite large enough but, with a suitable allowance for no shows, might just have sufficed.

Ha, typical executive who thinks out loud without considering the obvious practicalities of his ideas!

In the UK, your best venue would probably be Knebworth Park, who have got over 200k in for rock concerts. The largest stadium venue is Wembley, with 90k seats.

Total nonsense from a caller on Radio Five Live atm. Wish I hadnt tuned in.

At 9:33.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_five_live

Fysics_Teacher said:

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

Andy_JS said:

This ground in Ahmedabad has a capacity of 132,000. Lords is 30,000.

Wow.

I remember when the then Chairman of Royal Mail came up with the idea of addressing all postmen and women in one place at the same time, and despite being told this was not a practicable suggestion (for a set of reasons that will be blindingly obvious to the reader) insisted that someone go away and look into it. They came back with the answer that the only venue with sufficient capacity was the Grand Mosque at Mecca and that would require the workforce to convert to Islam and some potentially tricky negotiations to reserve the venue.

That cricket ground isn't quite large enough but, with a suitable allowance for no shows, might just have sufficed.

Ha, typical executive who thinks out loud without considering the obvious practicalities of his ideas!

In the UK, your best venue would probably be Knebworth Park, who have got over 200k in for rock concerts. The largest stadium venue is Wembley, with 90k seats.

How many were at Wembley for Live Aid?

Wiki says 72,000. (around 3/4 of the stands, and on the pitch).

MarqueeMark said:

Alanbrooke said:

Sturgeon resigned yet ?

Wait until teatime.

IF (planet-sized if, admittedly) Sturgeon has to fall on her sword/gets pushed under the bus - who replaces her? Who goes with her? And how much (have to add "if at all" I suppose) does it hurt the case for independence?

Seems the case made by Salmond is that a criminal prosecution was concocted out of his, er, forceful but lawful sexual advances - in order to finish his career/cement that of a rival. And the Scottish Establishment has been bent all out of shape in a ludicrous/desperate effort to support/save that rival. If that allegation can be stood up, there must surely be some more criminal trials?

Kate Forbes to replace please. She isn't old enough to have a past and would add greatly to the amount of old fashioned charm and courtesy in modern politics. if Scotland gets independence under her I am off to live in Edinburgh.

England's decision to play one spinner is looking inspired.

Fysics_Teacher said:

Andy_Cooke said:

Stuartinromford said:

AnneJGP said:

FPT:

Floater said:
Anyone had the Oxford jab?

How bad are the side effects - dealing with a wife who suffers from anxiety at best of times andwho is wobbling after seeing reports on facebook.


@Floater

Yes, I had the Oxford jab and had quite a strong reaction to it. My sister suffers from anxiety so I have some understanding of that. Here's what I can say.

The reaction wasn't pleasant, but nothing unusual for a mild illness and all described in the data sheet. It started about 15 hours after the jab: injection site swelled & was tight, hard & tender; I had aches & shivers, then a high-ish temp (101F, ~38C). The temp came down within 24 hours, then was just feeling mildly flu-ey plus intermittent nausea. Almost all of that resolved in about a week, except for occasional nausea. It's nearly two weeks since I had the jab. The swelling in my arm has been slowly reducing and is now almost gone.

I found the swelling in my arm reassuring because it showed my body was reacting to the vaccine and therefore reactions in other ways were highly likely, so I wasn't worried about the other symptoms.

I also found that xkcd cartoon, which compares the vaccination to a Star Wars episode, really encouraging because it gave me an amusing view of what was happening in my body. (Link below; it's about mRNA vaccines, but that doesn't really matter.)

I gather a strong reaction to Oxford/AZ is more likely in younger people. I'm 72, and am the only one I know personally who's had a strong reaction; also among my friends no-one else knows anyone besides myself who's had a strong reaction. However my god-daughter who is 28 reports that many of the people who've had the AZ in her circles have had a strong enough reaction to be off work for a few days. (I don't know what work she does now; she used to be a teaching assistant but maybe she's moved into care work.)

I would echo what @rcs1000 says; it's better than getting Covid. If you do have a strong reaction, be grateful that your body is fighting fit enough to get to action stations and prepare itself to fight off the Covid.

All the best to you and your wife.

https://xkcd.com/2425/

Good morning, everyone.

Mrs Romford is having the OAZ vaccine- she's young fit and healthy and said the response was like two days of manflu. But then it goes away and yes- that's how you know it's working and it's way better than getting Covid.

And, as always, xkcd rocks.

It is, apparently, often related to how bad your reaction would have been to having covid itself.

An unpleasant reaction to the vaccine may well indicate a very very unpleasant time of things indeed if you'd had the virus itself.

How would you test that without a time machine and access to an alternative universe?

It is, I believe, down to the theory and the analysis of immunogenetic responses to the vaccine and the sort of thing it does.

https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1364508082332696583
https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1364511147341340678

algarkirk said:

Cookie said:

NickPalmer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Are we heading in the same direction as this? Not able to do anything without scanning a QR code:


”David Rennie, Beijing bureau chief of The Economist, recently gave an astonishingly candid account of current ZeroCovid life in the Chinese capital:

“China’s strategy, from the start, was to have no infections at all… Still in Beijing, where we have hardly any cases, every time you step outside your door you have to use a smartphone to scan a QR code — every shop, every taxi, every bus, every metro station. You have no privacy at all — it’s all built around this electronic system of contact tracing. To leave Beijing you have to have a Covid test, to come back in you have to have a Covid test…. We basically don’t have the virus here, but the flip side is that they are keeping this place locked down as tight as a drum… It’s very hard to know where Covid containment starts and a Communist police state with an obsession with control kicks in.””

https://unherd.com/2021/02/inside-the-zero-covid-campaign/

No, because only North Korea can deliver a zero covid strategy.

But I do find it amusing.

People complain about lockdown then the same people complain about things that can and will end lockdown.

If I need a QR code to enter Sainsbury or hop on a bus but in return can be confident I won't catch Covid that's fine with me. If MI5 would like to know that I've visited Sainsbury, ditto. Now I'm at the why-worry end of the spectrum about stuff like this, not least since I'm quite sure that if MI5 want to keep tabs on me they can do so anyway, but I actually think most people will feel the same, the main resistance coming from people who don't have smartphones or find QR codes fiddly. Sites like Unherd think that there is no essential difference between freedom from oppression (democracy, rule of law for all, right to express any legal opinion, independent courts) and freedom from saying they've gone to Sainsbury - slippery slope and all that. I don't think most people think like that.

I know you were in favour of ID cards Nick - I think you were at one time advocating voluntary ID cards - but if Sainsburys demanded a QR scan, I'd go to Aldi. If Aldi demanded a QR scan, I'd go to the local greengrocer. If the pub demands a QR scan, I'm staying at home. I'm not going to starve to death, but I am going to inconvenience myself quite a lot in order for the state not to know where I've been. I absolutely do not trust them. And I work for the public sector and generally vote Conservative!

It is said that 1.3 million people don't even have a bank account. There must be a couple of million people who won't have, don't have, can't afford, electronic gadgetry of the smartphone sort. m any of them older and vulnerable. The use of compulsory electronic ID to access everyday services would be indirect discrimination on massive scale.

You can pick up a smartphone for less than £20 that the NHS can work on, I'm sure the government could help out.

Burgessian said:

algarkirk said:

MarqueeMark said:

Alanbrooke said:

Sturgeon resigned yet ?

Wait until teatime.

IF (planet-sized if, admittedly) Sturgeon has to fall on her sword/gets pushed under the bus - who replaces her? Who goes with her? And how much (have to add "if at all" I suppose) does it hurt the case for independence?

Seems the case made by Salmond is that a criminal prosecution was concocted out of his, er, forceful but lawful sexual advances - in order to finish his career/cement that of a rival. And the Scottish Establishment has been bent all out of shape in a ludicrous/desperate effort to support/save that rival. If that allegation can be stood up, there must surely be some more criminal trials?

Kate Forbes to replace please. She isn't old enough to have a past and would add greatly to the amount of old fashioned charm and courtesy in modern politics. if Scotland gets independence under her I am off to live in Edinburgh.

Kate's nice and popular but over-ramped. The fact that she managed to read Derek Mackay's speech at short notice after he was defenestrated without stumbling led to rave reviews, but I wouldn't read too much into it. Making her leader now would be an even worse decision than the over-promotion of WIlliam Hague when he was far too young.

Ian Blackford would be interesting.

TheScreamingEagles said:

algarkirk said:

Cookie said:

NickPalmer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Are we heading in the same direction as this? Not able to do anything without scanning a QR code:


”David Rennie, Beijing bureau chief of The Economist, recently gave an astonishingly candid account of current ZeroCovid life in the Chinese capital:

“China’s strategy, from the start, was to have no infections at all… Still in Beijing, where we have hardly any cases, every time you step outside your door you have to use a smartphone to scan a QR code — every shop, every taxi, every bus, every metro station. You have no privacy at all — it’s all built around this electronic system of contact tracing. To leave Beijing you have to have a Covid test, to come back in you have to have a Covid test…. We basically don’t have the virus here, but the flip side is that they are keeping this place locked down as tight as a drum… It’s very hard to know where Covid containment starts and a Communist police state with an obsession with control kicks in.””

https://unherd.com/2021/02/inside-the-zero-covid-campaign/

No, because only North Korea can deliver a zero covid strategy.

But I do find it amusing.

People complain about lockdown then the same people complain about things that can and will end lockdown.

If I need a QR code to enter Sainsbury or hop on a bus but in return can be confident I won't catch Covid that's fine with me. If MI5 would like to know that I've visited Sainsbury, ditto. Now I'm at the why-worry end of the spectrum about stuff like this, not least since I'm quite sure that if MI5 want to keep tabs on me they can do so anyway, but I actually think most people will feel the same, the main resistance coming from people who don't have smartphones or find QR codes fiddly. Sites like Unherd think that there is no essential difference between freedom from oppression (democracy, rule of law for all, right to express any legal opinion, independent courts) and freedom from saying they've gone to Sainsbury - slippery slope and all that. I don't think most people think like that.

I know you were in favour of ID cards Nick - I think you were at one time advocating voluntary ID cards - but if Sainsburys demanded a QR scan, I'd go to Aldi. If Aldi demanded a QR scan, I'd go to the local greengrocer. If the pub demands a QR scan, I'm staying at home. I'm not going to starve to death, but I am going to inconvenience myself quite a lot in order for the state not to know where I've been. I absolutely do not trust them. And I work for the public sector and generally vote Conservative!

It is said that 1.3 million people don't even have a bank account. There must be a couple of million people who won't have, don't have, can't afford, electronic gadgetry of the smartphone sort. m any of them older and vulnerable. The use of compulsory electronic ID to access everyday services would be indirect discrimination on massive scale.

You can pick up a smartphone for less than £20 that the NHS can work on, I'm sure the government could help out.

Apart from going abroad can anyone tell me the point of a vaccine passport.

Being blunt I'm not going out until I've received a vaccine and once I've had one I cannot see the point of victimizing those who haven't had one (either because it's not their turn yet or they cannot have one).

Sandpit said:

IanB2 said:

Andy_JS said:

This ground in Ahmedabad has a capacity of 132,000. Lords is 30,000.

Wow.

I remember when the then Chairman of Royal Mail came up with the idea of addressing all postmen and women in one place at the same time, and despite being told this was not a practicable suggestion (for a set of reasons that will be blindingly obvious to the reader) insisted that someone go away and look into it. They came back with the answer that the only venue with sufficient capacity was the Grand Mosque at Mecca and that would require the workforce to convert to Islam and some potentially tricky negotiations to reserve the venue.

That cricket ground isn't quite large enough but, with a suitable allowance for no shows, might just have sufficed.

Ha, typical executive who thinks out loud without considering the obvious practicalities of his ideas!

In the UK, your best venue would probably be Knebworth Park, who have got over 200k in for rock concerts. The largest stadium venue is Wembley, with 90k seats.

..

TheScreamingEagles said:

algarkirk said:

Cookie said:

NickPalmer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Andy_JS said:

Are we heading in the same direction as this? Not able to do anything without scanning a QR code:


”David Rennie, Beijing bureau chief of The Economist, recently gave an astonishingly candid account of current ZeroCovid life in the Chinese capital:

“China’s strategy, from the start, was to have no infections at all… Still in Beijing, where we have hardly any cases, every time you step outside your door you have to use a smartphone to scan a QR code — every shop, every taxi, every bus, every metro station. You have no privacy at all — it’s all built around this electronic system of contact tracing. To leave Beijing you have to have a Covid test, to come back in you have to have a Covid test…. We basically don’t have the virus here, but the flip side is that they are keeping this place locked down as tight as a drum… It’s very hard to know where Covid containment starts and a Communist police state with an obsession with control kicks in.””

https://unherd.com/2021/02/inside-the-zero-covid-campaign/

No, because only North Korea can deliver a zero covid strategy.

But I do find it amusing.

People complain about lockdown then the same people complain about things that can and will end lockdown.

If I need a QR code to enter Sainsbury or hop on a bus but in return can be confident I won't catch Covid that's fine with me. If MI5 would like to know that I've visited Sainsbury, ditto. Now I'm at the why-worry end of the spectrum about stuff like this, not least since I'm quite sure that if MI5 want to keep tabs on me they can do so anyway, but I actually think most people will feel the same, the main resistance coming from people who don't have smartphones or find QR codes fiddly. Sites like Unherd think that there is no essential difference between freedom from oppression (democracy, rule of law for all, right to express any legal opinion, independent courts) and freedom from saying they've gone to Sainsbury - slippery slope and all that. I don't think most people think like that.

I know you were in favour of ID cards Nick - I think you were at one time advocating voluntary ID cards - but if Sainsburys demanded a QR scan, I'd go to Aldi. If Aldi demanded a QR scan, I'd go to the local greengrocer. If the pub demands a QR scan, I'm staying at home. I'm not going to starve to death, but I am going to inconvenience myself quite a lot in order for the state not to know where I've been. I absolutely do not trust them. And I work for the public sector and generally vote Conservative!

It is said that 1.3 million people don't even have a bank account. There must be a couple of million people who won't have, don't have, can't afford, electronic gadgetry of the smartphone sort. m any of them older and vulnerable. The use of compulsory electronic ID to access everyday services would be indirect discrimination on massive scale.

You can pick up a smartphone for less than £20 that the NHS can work on, I'm sure the government could help out.

Might well be an issue with 'I can't work one of those things' with that section of the population.

Never thought Id say this but Im starting to move in favour of compulsory vaccinations if the alternative is never-ending lockdown measures, due to the fact that a small percentage of people not having had the jab might be used as a reason why we cant return to normal life. At least with the jab you can get it over and done with.