politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » I’m not convinced that the Coulson conviction will have mor
PMQs, as you’d expect, was dominated by yesterday’s news from the Old Bailey that former Number 10 Communications Director had been convicted in the hacking case.
Comments
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A couple of points:
I cant work out if Coulson was guilty how was Rebekah Brookes cleared?
Secondly Coulson is likely to get 6-12 months I would think.
This case has cost £35 million plus all the millions on police time, to send someone to jail for 6 months. Good value?0 -
I'd argue Coulson has been a loss to Cameron in the polls over the past four years. When he was head of communications the Tory media-operation was slick and effective. He appeared to be very good at his job, whatever bad stuff he'd done in the past.0
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It crossed my mind that it might have been a cool tactic from EdM not to mention Coulson at all.. would he have been slated for this? I'm obviously not a political strategist!0
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This is a big political story and worthy of reporting by the media but I wonder how long the BBC can drag this out as their 'top story' - Day 2 and today's top headline is the Judges rebuke from yesterday.
Needless to say it is not the 'most read', which is "Woman, 90, dragged off Rochdale street and raped"0 -
Currystar - as I understand it they had emails of Coulson discussing hacked information but they only alledged that Brookes must know in her role i.e no smoking gun
I cannot understand how this will go down as a serious negative with voters - there are only a few instances of genuine victims. I mean Abi Titmuss was on the telly last night talking about her 'victimhood' and this is woman who released an adult film a la paris hilton to make her more famous.
Is this really an iraq war moment with soldiers dying and millions of foreigners dying in an ill advised war, which did effect voting patterns.0 -
This may be of interest to Guardianistas and the Twitterati, so a limited public interest, however I doubt this would put them off voting for Cameron(!) and they are surely very likely to vote types anyway so surely not a turnout enhancer like the expenses scandalSimonStClare said:
This is a big political story and worthy of reporting by the media but I wonder how long the BBC can drag this out as their 'top story' - Day 2 and today's top headline is the Judges rebuke from yesterday.
Needless to say it is not the 'most read', which is "Woman, 90, dragged off Rochdale street and raped"0 -
Also the use of the word criminal, although strictly speaking correct, makes this so much more dramatic than it is.. he isn't a murderer or a rapist, he is a journalist that used dirty tactics to get a scoop.. well I'll be darnedNemtynakht said:Currystar - as I understand it they had emails of Coulson discussing hacked information but they only alledged that Brookes must know in her role i.e no smoking gun
I cannot understand how this will go down as a serious negative with voters - there are only a few instances of genuine victims. I mean Abi Titmuss was on the telly last night talking about her 'victimhood' and this is woman who released an adult film a la paris hilton to make her more famous.
Is this really an iraq war moment with soldiers dying and millions of foreigners dying in an ill advised war, which did effect voting patterns.
I cant imagine many normal people are bothered about it at all
Its like the outrage at UKIP councillors saying "poof" from people who supported the Iraq war, no sense of perspective0 -
FPT
Point by point:FalseFlag said:
US banking system much smaller than UK's as %.Socrates said:Since 2010, Obama's US economy has grown by 8%, and unemployment has fallen by 3.6 points. In the same time period, Cameron's UK economy has grown by 6% and unemployment has fallen by 1.5 points. But you know, one quarter of very bad weather in the US was bad, so that must mean that Obama is a disaster, while Cameron has overseen an economic miracle.
Less exposed to Euro crisis.
Unemployment figures very flattered by drop in participation rate.
US first in first out.
US GDP growth more driven by immigration than even UK.
- Financial sector is 8% of US GDP and 9% of UK GDP, so not much in it.
- This one's fair, but ultimately it's been a policy decision to base our trade strategy on a closed trading bloc with the EU, which Cameron supports.
- US employment has increased by 5.4%, while UK employment has increased by 4.6%, and participation rates won't affect that calculation
- US recession started in Q3 2008, UK recession started in Q2 2008. The US did have a one quarter dip in Q1 2008, before recovering, but all-in-all, not much in it
- Immigration actually hurts you when you have slack in your labour market because you have to create jobs even faster.0 -
Big danger for Labour if they decide to keep flogging this horse and waste more pre-election time on this issue rather than addressing the concerns of the electorate.0
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Wow 2 goals in 4 minutes Argies v Nigeria 1-10
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Goodness — 2 goals after 3 minutes in the Argentina vs Nigeria match.0
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It's hard to see how the story can have further legs. Cameron has apologised. It has been covered at PMQs. It doesn't look like there is anywhere else to go.SimonStClare said:This is a big political story and worthy of reporting by the media but I wonder how long the BBC can drag this out as their 'top story' - Day 2 and today's top headline is the Judges rebuke from yesterday.
Needless to say it is not the 'most read', which is "Woman, 90, dragged off Rochdale street and raped"0 -
I doubt it will have even a short-term impact. Total non-story. Andy who?
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"This is a big political story and worthy of reporting by the media but I wonder how long the BBC can drag this out as their 'top story' - Day 2 and today's top headline is the Judges rebuke from yesterday."
They will find a way. The Guardian / BBC will try and drag this out for a few more days at least, unless Iraq goes totally nuclear. They clearly had loads and loads of stuff lined up ready to go against their arch enemy, although the fact only one man got found guilty (and not of all the charges), probably means quite a bit is on the cutting room floor now.
Are we getting a Panorama special next week by any chance?
They were still prattling on about Miller days and days after she resigned.0 -
He follows Peter Jukes on twitter - he's therefore an expert in law...TheWatcher said:0 -
I can still recall the fun and games on this site when a couple of well kent names outed another.isam said:
Also the use of the word criminal, although strictly speaking correct, makes this so much more dramatic than it is.. he isn't a murderer or a rapist, he is a journalist that used dirty tactics to get a scoop.. well I'll be darnedNemtynakht said:Currystar - as I understand it they had emails of Coulson discussing hacked information but they only alledged that Brookes must know in her role i.e no smoking gun
I cannot understand how this will go down as a serious negative with voters - there are only a few instances of genuine victims. I mean Abi Titmuss was on the telly last night talking about her 'victimhood' and this is woman who released an adult film a la paris hilton to make her more famous.
Is this really an iraq war moment with soldiers dying and millions of foreigners dying in an ill advised war, which did effect voting patterns.
I cant imagine many normal people are bothered about it at all
Its like the outrage at UKIP councillors saying "poof" from people who supported the Iraq war, no sense of perspective
And I do seem to remember a couple of your comments when someone tried to out you.
The tactics used by the NotW and many other newspapers was illegal and caused not just embarrassment to a few celebrities, but also harm and hurt to many. There will be over 100 cases going to trial within the next year, plus all the civil cases (where the evidence of proof is less than a criminal court) which could lead to new cases being made against those recently declared Not Guilty. (Tommy Sheridan is already suing Coulson in Scotland)
What will happen now is that Labour will tie the Tories into the Murdoch Hacking Machine. Whichever way you look at it, this damages DC, slowly, surely, a lingering death from a thousand cuts.
I am looking forward to tomorrows Private Eye, should be interesting.0 -
When is the decision on Junker due? I think that could be potentially much more impactful on the political scene than Coulson.
Well, not the decision itself, but Cameron's response to it...0 -
Someone tried to out me? What do you mean?Edin_Rokz said:
I can still recall the fun and games on this site when a couple of well kent names outed another.isam said:
Also the use of the word criminal, although strictly speaking correct, makes this so much more dramatic than it is.. he isn't a murderer or a rapist, he is a journalist that used dirty tactics to get a scoop.. well I'll be darnedNemtynakht said:Currystar - as I understand it they had emails of Coulson discussing hacked information but they only alledged that Brookes must know in her role i.e no smoking gun
I cannot understand how this will go down as a serious negative with voters - there are only a few instances of genuine victims. I mean Abi Titmuss was on the telly last night talking about her 'victimhood' and this is woman who released an adult film a la paris hilton to make her more famous.
Is this really an iraq war moment with soldiers dying and millions of foreigners dying in an ill advised war, which did effect voting patterns.
I cant imagine many normal people are bothered about it at all
Its like the outrage at UKIP councillors saying "poof" from people who supported the Iraq war, no sense of perspective
And I do seem to remember a couple of your comments when someone tried to out you.
The tactics used by the NotW and many other newspapers was illegal and caused not just embarrassment to a few celebrities, but also harm and hurt to many. There will be over 100 cases going to trial within the next year, plus all the civil cases (where the evidence of proof is less than a criminal court) which could lead to new cases being made against those recently declared Not Guilty. (Tommy Sheridan is already suing Coulson in Scotland)
What will happen now is that Labour will tie the Tories into the Murdoch Hacking Machine. Whichever way you look at it, this damages DC, slowly, surely, a lingering death from a thousand cuts.
I am looking forward to tomorrows Private Eye, should be interesting.0 -
Well, not the decision itself, but Cameron's response to it...
Iain Martin seems to think the Juncker deliberation is a very big deal. Make of that what you will.0 -
Cameron's luck has ridden to the rescue again with the timing of the verdicts - announced on the same day as wimbledon, England playing in World Cup and England losing in the last over of a test. Normally five live would have had Richard Bacon interviewing some random left wing celeb about a book and letting them rant on about Cameron and "Murdoch Press" with frequent outside the court coverage interspersed with news going into evening news saturation coverage.
The big thing that I don't understand about this whole 'Murdoch Press' influence thing is that the people reading the newspapers have paid for the privilege. There is no free online version so either the people who buy the papers have been subtly brainwashed or more likely they actually agree with what is written, and just happen to have an opinion different to that of the Guardian / BBC / Twitter, who in the main imply that you must have your head looked at if you have a right of centre viewpoint.
In fact the BBC etc have had a significant impact on the language used. If you think we shouldn't be part of the the EU you are a eurosceptic which has the implication that you are crazy. The same with climate change deniers. If you query the scientific proof, even if you think that climate change may be happening, you are met with an almost religious fervour against you which has framed the debate.
In fact New Labour were very good at this when they reframed spending taxpayers money as investment even if it was nothing of the sort.0 -
You do get the sense it's going to be a big deal, but not sure how well connected Martin is to the inner sanctum. Probably not that well, given he seems to hate Cameron's guts, LOL.taffys said:Well, not the decision itself, but Cameron's response to it...
Iain Martin seems to think the Juncker deliberation is a very big deal. Make of that what you will.
It will be fascinating to see what happens.
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BBC Ticker - At least 12 people killed in explosion near shopping centre in Nigerian capital Abuja - local hospitals
Reports in other media at the scene, saying bomb attack.
http://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/163685-breaking-explosion-rocks-abuja-many-feared-dead.html0 -
Nemtynakht
Not that lucky, England's lack of sporting success will have quite a few in a gloomier mood than usual, and gloomy people tend to assume the worst of any situation.
(counter factuals written to order, reasonable rates)0 -
If you want to know what the inner sanctum is thinking Matthew D'Ancona is the one to go to;
http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/matthew-dancona-david-cameron-goes-to-the-brink-over-ec-presidency-9561840.html
He seems to think Juncker is a big decision too.0 -
Who are the sympathetic victims though - when Cameron was bounced into Leveson it was because according to the Guardian NOTW hacked phone of Millie Dowler and removed evidence which could have helped enquiry - now we know that messages were deleted by network, and whilst the victims of crime having messages listened to are reprehensible, are there really that many, and will they get a voice in the media around the Celebs like for example Abi Titmuss. The celebs will have there full management support trying to get them in the media ahead but this will drown out the true victims.Edin_Rokz said:
The tactics used by the NotW and many other newspapers was illegal and caused not just embarrassment to a few celebrities, but also harm and hurt to many. There will be over 100 cases going to trial within the next year, plus all the civil cases (where the evidence of proof is less than a criminal court) which could lead to new cases being made against those recently declared Not Guilty. (Tommy Sheridan is already suing Coulson in Scotland)
What will happen now is that Labour will tie the Tories into the Murdoch Hacking Machine. Whichever way you look at it, this damages DC, slowly, surely, a lingering death from a thousand cuts.
I am looking forward to tomorrows Private Eye, should be interesting.
Secondly is it really an Iraq war - will hundreds of thousands march against?0 -
The principle should be upheld that justice in a democratic society is always good value.currystar said:A couple of points:
I cant work out if Coulson was guilty how was Rebekah Brookes cleared?
Secondly Coulson is likely to get 6-12 months I would think.
This case has cost £35 million plus all the millions on police time, to send someone to jail for 6 months. Good value?
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Welcome to pb.com, Mr. Nakht.0
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As predicted BBC going to keep the hacking story going...out of the woodwork, just learned....
LATEST:Carole Middleton, mother of Duchess of Cambridge, had phone hacked by News of the World, BBC learns
Funny how they never seem very interested in the Mirror and reports of their activities.0 -
The Trinity Mirror group were bigger users than NI. Funny that not looked at by the BBC?FrancisUrquhart said:As predicted BBC going to keep the hacking story going...out of the woodwork, just learned....
LATEST:Carole Middleton, mother of Duchess of Cambridge, had phone hacked by News of the World, BBC learns
Funny how they never seem very interested in the Mirror and reports of their activities.
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Hmm. Surprised to see Ferrer's out, beaten by Kuznetsov.
Edited extra bit: for those wondering, I have been checking for tennis tips, but nothing jumped out at me.0 -
Bored already. Nothing new to come out of this. The tribalists have already made up their minds and won't be changing them anytime soon.0
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I'd also point out that, technically speaking, Ed Miliband has also had several years to think about potential questions in the event that Coulson was convicted, so it's not as if Cameron had a fundamental advantageBobaFett said:I doubt it will have even a short-term impact. Total non-story. Andy who?
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"The principle should be upheld that justice in a democratic society is always good value."
Not sure I quite understand you there, Jack.
Do you mean that highly-paid lawyers who get their clients off, means that we have justice in this country?
Color me skeptical, as they say.0 -
F1: fascinating piece on engines next year. Basically, Mercedes may supply either Sauber, Caterham or Lotus, as they'll lose McLaren and supplying another team means more money (so why not?).
However, the Mercedes is the cheapest engine. It's miles better than the others, and nearly half the cost of the priciest: Renault.
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2014/06/25/the-onomatopoeia-of-f1-engines/0 -
"Al-Qaeda merges with Isis at Syria-Iraq border town
Al-Qaeda's Syrian affiliate swears loyalty to Isis, opening way for jihadist group to control vast swathes of land on both sides of Iraq-Syria border"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/10925602/Al-Qaeda-merges-with-Isis-at-Syria-Iraq-border-town.html0 -
Just another day in northern/central Nigeria.FrancisUrquhart said:BBC Ticker - At least 12 people killed in explosion near shopping centre in Nigerian capital Abuja - local hospitals
Reports in other media at the scene, saying bomb attack.
http://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/163685-breaking-explosion-rocks-abuja-many-feared-dead.html0 -
The story uses up time. The Conservatives need to use the weeks remaining to close the gap between Labour and the Conservatives. The story may not change a single vote. That doesn't matter. The Conservatives are the ones needing to change votes.0
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Mr. JS, and yet it's an atheist who's been consigned to a mental hospital for not believing in a god...
Mr. Antifrank, quite. It's like tempo in fencing. Or the approach of the Cunctator in the Second Punic War.0 -
But no-one expected Coulson to be convicted yet Brooks to go free. That meant Miliband's whole line of attack had narrowed and meant Cameron's defence was easier.Charles said:
I'd also point out that, technically speaking, Ed Miliband has also had several years to think about potential questions in the event that Coulson was convicted, so it's not as if Cameron had a fundamental advantageBobaFett said:I doubt it will have even a short-term impact. Total non-story. Andy who?
As for the wider impact... Rebecca was the story, not Coulson, and she's at home warming up the laptop and preparing Chapter One: Revenge is a Dish Best Served Cold and Chapter Two: Hell Hath No Fury.
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A fair point.antifrank1 said:The story uses up time. The Conservatives need to use the weeks remaining to close the gap between Labour and the Conservatives. The story may not change a single vote. That doesn't matter. The Conservatives are the ones needing to change votes.
What happened to the original antifrank?0 -
I remember from the last time 'hack-gate' was covered by the BBC, they got themselves in a right old pickle. When the latest journalist was arrested, Aunty forgot to mention she was from the Guardian, but still provided the, by now generic "NoW" caption picture with the story.TCPoliticalBetting said:
The Trinity Mirror group were bigger users than NI. Funny that not looked at by the BBC?FrancisUrquhart said:As predicted BBC going to keep the hacking story going...out of the woodwork, just learned....
LATEST:Carole Middleton, mother of Duchess of Cambridge, had phone hacked by News of the World, BBC learns
Funny how they never seem very interested in the Mirror and reports of their activities.
The odd thing was, even after the Guardian issued a two sentence press release, the Beeb edited out the second half admitting responsibility. They just can't help themselves.0 -
Just another day in northern/central Nigeria.
Maybe one day it'll be northern/central England.0 -
He's still around. But on this computer he logs into a different gmail account, so needs a different username.RobD said:
A fair point.antifrank1 said:The story uses up time. The Conservatives need to use the weeks remaining to close the gap between Labour and the Conservatives. The story may not change a single vote. That doesn't matter. The Conservatives are the ones needing to change votes.
What happened to the original antifrank?0 -
That was a different kind of 'good' hacking, not to be confused with NI's 'bad' hacking.TCPoliticalBetting said:
The Trinity Mirror group were bigger users than NI. Funny that not looked at by the BBC?FrancisUrquhart said:As predicted BBC going to keep the hacking story going...out of the woodwork, just learned....
LATEST:Carole Middleton, mother of Duchess of Cambridge, had phone hacked by News of the World, BBC learns
Funny how they never seem very interested in the Mirror and reports of their activities.0 -
Not sure about that, because it works both ways. Labour need to regain credibility, and in particular to persuade people that they have something vaguely resembling an economic policy. This was supposed to be the time when the blank sheet of paper was to be filled in. So Labour need time too, and arguably more so.antifrank1 said:The story uses up time. The Conservatives need to use the weeks remaining to close the gap between Labour and the Conservatives. The story may not change a single vote. That doesn't matter. The Conservatives are the ones needing to change votes.
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isam and Sam were told in no uncertain terms this wasn't allowed!antifrank1 said:
He's still around. But on this computer he logs into a different gmail account, so needs a different username.RobD said:
A fair point.antifrank1 said:The story uses up time. The Conservatives need to use the weeks remaining to close the gap between Labour and the Conservatives. The story may not change a single vote. That doesn't matter. The Conservatives are the ones needing to change votes.
What happened to the original antifrank?0 -
Ah, I never use that "log in with" feature offered by the likes of Facebook and Google, as I don't trust it. I make a new login/pass for each site.antifrank1 said:
He's still around. But on this computer he logs into a different gmail account, so needs a different username.RobD said:
A fair point.antifrank1 said:The story uses up time. The Conservatives need to use the weeks remaining to close the gap between Labour and the Conservatives. The story may not change a single vote. That doesn't matter. The Conservatives are the ones needing to change votes.
What happened to the original antifrank?
Perhaps antifrank1 should be antifrank_at_work? :')0 -
Following the UKIP victory in May, it's crucial for Cameron to act or be seen to be acting tough on Europe. I'm not convinced this is the battle to die in the ditch - most people won't be aware of Juncker or of the Presidency of the Commission or the saliency of the issue and I suppose that's the point. Any fight will do as long as it looks as though we're standing up to the nasty old EU.GIN1138 said:If you want to know what the inner sanctum is thinking Matthew D'Ancona is the one to go to;
http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/matthew-dancona-david-cameron-goes-to-the-brink-over-ec-presidency-9561840.html
He seems to think Juncker is a big decision too.
I suspect that's the bemusement in the rest of the EU - it looks as though Cameron is picking a fight just for the hell of it and pandering to domestic political consumption which all politicians have to do periodically.
What puzzles me is the absence of a credible alternative candidate - where is the young, dynamic centre-right reformer that we can all rally round and proclaim as the future of the newly reformed EU ? Er, yes, I don't know either.
This then is Cameron's problem - he doesn't like the main choice but doesn't seem to have anyone else or a figure whom he has canvassed among his so-called EU allies - it seems an odd way to fight a battle leaving him seemingly with two options - capitulation or the nuclear option of a referendum and again the Presidency of the Commission doesn't seem the issue on which to win over uncertain voters (much as AV wasn't).
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Labour will release their policies in the clear air of Conference. Not before.Richard_Nabavi said:
Not sure about that, because it works both ways. Labour need to regain credibility, and in particular to persuade people that they have something vaguely resembling an economic policy. This was supposed to be the time when the blank sheet of paper was to be filled in. So Labour need time too, and arguably more so.antifrank1 said:The story uses up time. The Conservatives need to use the weeks remaining to close the gap between Labour and the Conservatives. The story may not change a single vote. That doesn't matter. The Conservatives are the ones needing to change votes.
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As has been shown in this case, the prosecution has the power and the finances of the State behind them and in certain cases the State will think little of spending a disproportionate amount of money to ensure a conviction. As such I am not sure we can be too critical of defence lawyers charging large sums of money to counter that.PClipp said:"The principle should be upheld that justice in a democratic society is always good value."
Not sure I quite understand you there, Jack.
Do you mean that highly-paid lawyers who get their clients off, means that we have justice in this country?
Color me skeptical, as they say.0 -
Still think it will make no difference but just to say the "Cameron under fire" story leads tonight's Standard.
Can't see anyone actually reading it on this Tube though :-o0 -
The US recession was both shorter and shallower than the UK's.Socrates said:FPT
Point by point:FalseFlag said:
US banking system much smaller than UK's as %.Socrates said:Since 2010, Obama's US economy has grown by 8%, and unemployment has fallen by 3.6 points. In the same time period, Cameron's UK economy has grown by 6% and unemployment has fallen by 1.5 points. But you know, one quarter of very bad weather in the US was bad, so that must mean that Obama is a disaster, while Cameron has overseen an economic miracle.
Less exposed to Euro crisis.
Unemployment figures very flattered by drop in participation rate.
US first in first out.
US GDP growth more driven by immigration than even UK.
- Financial sector is 8% of US GDP and 9% of UK GDP, so not much in it.
- This one's fair, but ultimately it's been a policy decision to base our trade strategy on a closed trading bloc with the EU, which Cameron supports.
- US employment has increased by 5.4%, while UK employment has increased by 4.6%, and participation rates won't affect that calculation
- US recession started in Q3 2008, UK recession started in Q2 2008. The US did have a one quarter dip in Q1 2008, before recovering, but all-in-all, not much in it
- Immigration actually hurts you when you have slack in your labour market because you have to create jobs even faster.
The US recession spanned four quarters from Q3 2008 although, as you say, there was one quarter of -0.67% followed by another with growth of 0.50% before the four quarter span.
From peak to trough, GDP growth in the US fell by 4.26%.
The UK recession spanned five quarters from Q2 2008 with the sixth quarter having Brown's famous "growth of nought percent". In fact there was no growth in the sixth quarter but the -0.004% contraction did not qualify as recessionary under the one decimal point rule.
From peak to trough, GDP growth in the UK fell by 7.19%.
The UK only very narrowly missed a double dip recession with the three quarters between Q4 2011 and Q2 2012 all showing negative growth (-0.11%, -0.01%, -0.39%) but with the middle quarter not qualifying under the same one decimal point rule as above.
The difference in depth is clearly significant. The relative durations less so.0 -
More likely Northern/Central London
Right now, the papers are running at one race/culture incident per day for east London...
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It's a left liberal metropolitan media conspiracy.FrancisUrquhart said:As predicted BBC going to keep the hacking story going...out of the woodwork, just learned....
LATEST:Carole Middleton, mother of Duchess of Cambridge, had phone hacked by News of the World, BBC learns
Funny how they never seem very interested in the Mirror and reports of their activities.0 -
Private Eye: if you have a subscription, you have it now. Bear in mind publication times. Pro tip: you're going to be disappointed.Edin_Rokz said:
I can still recall the fun and games on this site when a couple of well kent names outed another.isam said:
Also the use of the word criminal, although strictly speaking correct, makes this so much more dramatic than it is.. he isn't a murderer or a rapist, he is a journalist that used dirty tactics to get a scoop.. well I'll be darnedNemtynakht said:Currystar - as I understand it they had emails of Coulson discussing hacked information but they only alledged that Brookes must know in her role i.e no smoking gun
I cannot understand how this will go down as a serious negative with voters - there are only a few instances of genuine victims. I mean Abi Titmuss was on the telly last night talking about her 'victimhood' and this is woman who released an adult film a la paris hilton to make her more famous.
Is this really an iraq war moment with soldiers dying and millions of foreigners dying in an ill advised war, which did effect voting patterns.
I cant imagine many normal people are bothered about it at all
Its like the outrage at UKIP councillors saying "poof" from people who supported the Iraq war, no sense of perspective
And I do seem to remember a couple of your comments when someone tried to out you.
The tactics used by the NotW and many other newspapers was illegal and caused not just embarrassment to a few celebrities, but also harm and hurt to many. There will be over 100 cases going to trial within the next year, plus all the civil cases (where the evidence of proof is less than a criminal court) which could lead to new cases being made against those recently declared Not Guilty. (Tommy Sheridan is already suing Coulson in Scotland)
What will happen now is that Labour will tie the Tories into the Murdoch Hacking Machine. Whichever way you look at it, this damages DC, slowly, surely, a lingering death from a thousand cuts.
I am looking forward to tomorrows Private Eye, should be interesting.0 -
Are you heading off for a pint in Albert Square with Dick Whittington?BobaFett said:Still think it will make no difference but just to say the "Cameron under fire" story leads tonight's Standard.
Can't see anyone actually reading it on this Tube though :-o0 -
Really, I can't say I have noticed to be honest. The only story the Beeb is covering is linked below. - 4 dead, 6 jailed, but no mention of racially motivated crime.taffys said:More likely Northern/Central London
Right now, the papers are running at one race/culture incident per day for east London...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-280140350 -
Yeah, sure. Perhaps then we'll eventually find out whether the criticism is 'too far too fast' or 'not far enough and not fast enough', and whether the attack line is 'too tough on welfare' or 'not tough enough on welfare', and the same on immigration.BobaFett said:Labour will release their policies in the clear air of Conference. Not before.
Whichever way they go (and I don't share your confidence that we'll ever find out), they will face two problems: credibility, especially since they've been all over the place so far, and the problem that actually being specific will alienate existing supporters.
Ed Miliband has made an absolute hash of strategic preparation, instead throwing off random and mutually contradictory policy mini-statements, which often get reversed. We saw an excellent example a few days ago, when Ed announced a policy on reducing benefits for 18-21 year olds which not only made little sense, but flatly contradicted what Rachel Reeves said last November.
Your faith in Ed's ability to put this all back into a coherent whole with just a few months to go is, I'm afraid, very unlikely to be rewarded.0 -
I thought he had gone away for the summerantifrank1 said:
He's still around. But on this computer he logs into a different gmail account, so needs a different username.RobD said:
A fair point.antifrank1 said:The story uses up time. The Conservatives need to use the weeks remaining to close the gap between Labour and the Conservatives. The story may not change a single vote. That doesn't matter. The Conservatives are the ones needing to change votes.
What happened to the original antifrank?
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Mr. Nabavi, isn't 'too far, too fast' an accurate critique of Ed Balls' approach to driving?0
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You may "color" your American scepticism any which way you wish.PClipp said:"The principle should be upheld that justice in a democratic society is always good value."
Not sure I quite understand you there, Jack.
Do you mean that highly-paid lawyers who get their clients off, means that we have justice in this country?
Color me skeptical, as they say.
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Expect silence for a while, whilst Bob pretends that he's in a tunnel.isam said:
How are you posting on the tube? Shepherds Bush is deep underground isn't it?BobaFett said:Still think it will make no difference but just to say the "Cameron under fire" story leads tonight's Standard.
Can't see anyone actually reading it on this Tube though :-o
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What do you think we do on the Tube - discuss the finer points of French impressionism or consider the merits of Hegel as a philosopher ? To be fair, the purgatory that is the short hop from Bank to Mile End is just about survival - from Mile End it's much more civilised and I can peruse the Standard in reasonable comfort.BobaFett said:Still think it will make no difference but just to say the "Cameron under fire" story leads tonight's Standard.
Can't see anyone actually reading it on this Tube though :-o
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I'm flying out of town on Monday. I'll be returning to pb when autumn leaves start to fall.Charles said:
I thought he had gone away for the summerantifrank1 said:
He's still around. But on this computer he logs into a different gmail account, so needs a different username.RobD said:
A fair point.antifrank1 said:The story uses up time. The Conservatives need to use the weeks remaining to close the gap between Labour and the Conservatives. The story may not change a single vote. That doesn't matter. The Conservatives are the ones needing to change votes.
What happened to the original antifrank?0 -
Do you mean this crime:
http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Antoin-Akpom-murder-Teenager-convicted-fatal/story-21282791-detail/story.html
And this fatal arson in retaliation on the wrong house?:
http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leicester-house-deaths-judge-told-killers/story-21288241-detail/story.html
The stabbing victim had no criminal record, but the killer (and intended target for revenge) had recently been released from custody after being convicted in relation to the 2011 London riots.
It sounds like a turf was between rival gangs, with collateral damage to civilians.SimonStClare said:
Really, I can't say I have noticed to be honest. The only story the Beeb is covering is linked below. - 4 dead, 6 jailed, but no mention of racially motivated crime.taffys said:More likely Northern/Central London
Right now, the papers are running at one race/culture incident per day for east London...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-280140350 -
Then Labour better hope that there's a No vote in the Scottish independence referendum. The Labour party conference starts the next day.BobaFett said:
Labour will release their policies in the clear air of Conference. Not before.Richard_Nabavi said:
Not sure about that, because it works both ways. Labour need to regain credibility, and in particular to persuade people that they have something vaguely resembling an economic policy. This was supposed to be the time when the blank sheet of paper was to be filled in. So Labour need time too, and arguably more so.antifrank1 said:The story uses up time. The Conservatives need to use the weeks remaining to close the gap between Labour and the Conservatives. The story may not change a single vote. That doesn't matter. The Conservatives are the ones needing to change votes.
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Is sukuk a Farage expletive or the subject of today's most important national economic news?
See http://bloom.bg/1lpQEti for an answer.
Yet more good news from St. George.0 -
A baffling post even by your standards.TheWatcher said:
Are you heading off for a pint in Albert Square with Dick Whittington?BobaFett said:Still think it will make no difference but just to say the "Cameron under fire" story leads tonight's Standard.
Can't see anyone actually reading it on this Tube though :-o
I'm off to see Mary Poppins.0 -
A sensible piece by Toby Young (yeah I know, my jaw dropped too) on why Justice Saunders is talking nonsense about David Cameron/Coulson/Phone hacking and all the rest...
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100277653/cameron-isnt-to-blame-for-the-collapse-of-the-hacking-trial/0 -
WiFi in most stations now, you have to be quick though!isam said:
How are you posting on the tube? Shepherds Bush is deep underground isn't it?BobaFett said:Still think it will make no difference but just to say the "Cameron under fire" story leads tonight's Standard.
Can't see anyone actually reading it on this Tube though :-o0 -
Are you holing up in Hungary or doing something completely different (no need to say what)?antifrank1 said:
I'm flying out of town on Monday. I'll be returning to pb when autumn leaves start to fall.Charles said:
I thought he had gone away for the summerantifrank1 said:
He's still around. But on this computer he logs into a different gmail account, so needs a different username.RobD said:
A fair point.antifrank1 said:The story uses up time. The Conservatives need to use the weeks remaining to close the gap between Labour and the Conservatives. The story may not change a single vote. That doesn't matter. The Conservatives are the ones needing to change votes.
What happened to the original antifrank?
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?Socrates said:FPT
Point by point:FalseFlag said:
US banking system much smaller than UK's as %.Socrates said:Since 2010, Obama's US economy has grown by 8%, and unemployment has fallen by 3.6 points. In the same time period, Cameron's UK economy has grown by 6% and unemployment has fallen by 1.5 points. But you know, one quarter of very bad weather in the US was bad, so that must mean that Obama is a disaster, while Cameron has overseen an economic miracle.
Less exposed to Euro crisis.
Unemployment figures very flattered by drop in participation rate.
US first in first out.
US GDP growth more driven by immigration than even UK.
- Financial sector is 8% of US GDP and 9% of UK GDP, so not much in it.
- This one's fair, but ultimately it's been a policy decision to base our trade strategy on a closed trading bloc with the EU, which Cameron supports.
- US employment has increased by 5.4%, while UK employment has increased by 4.6%, and participation rates won't affect that calculation
- US recession started in Q3 2008, UK recession started in Q2 2008. The US did have a one quarter dip in Q1 2008, before recovering, but all-in-all, not much in it
- Immigration actually hurts you when you have slack in your labour market because you have to create jobs even faster.
Banking system in the UK was a multiple of the US, banking assets are what matter, it's why our bailout was 800USD and the US Tarp just 700. Irrelevant stat.
Irrelevant, more a hobby horse there.
Adjusting for labour force participation the UK has far outperformed the US. Again random stat generator.
2Qs makes a difference.
Immigration inflates GDP.0 -
From ye gospel Wikipedia:AveryLP said:Is sukuk a Farage expletive or the subject of today's most important national economic news?
See http://bloom.bg/1lpQEti for an answer.
Yet more good news from St. George.
"Saint George is somewhat of an exception among saints and legends, in that he is known and respected by Muslims, as well as venerated by Christians... "
How apt.0 -
@foxinsoxuk – Yes Mr Fox, that’s the story I was referring to. – Horrible business, these turf wars, innocent bystanders always end up caught in the cross fire.0
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Also the UK had a worse fiscal position and the bank bailout cost 850. Really no comparison, we were more a Greece, Ireland, Spain than US.0
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I have been out of the jurisdiction for the past few days, but here are my thoughts:
*The judgment of Saunders J on Mr Coulson's application for discharge of the jury was plainly correct. His attack on the Prime Minister's comments was, however, inappropriate for a serving judge. The Prime Minister should not have commented until the jury had returned verdicts on all counts, but the comments that he did make posed no real threat to the administration of justice in the proceedings before the Central Criminal Court. Everything else was irrelevant.
*The media and politicians are engaged in a self-serving and hypocritical frenzy, at enormous cost to the taxpayer.
*Individual liberty and freedom of expression are under greater threat today than at any point since the Second World War, but few in either the media or politics seem to care.0 -
I shall be flying to Hungary, where I intend to do a lot of fruit picking, cycling and swimming in the country. Within Hungary I shall be visiting the Tokay and Villany wine regions. I shall also be making excursions to Azerbaijan, Austria, Slovenia, north east Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland (north and south), rural Suffolk and Montenegro. There may be other jaunts.AveryLP said:
Are you holing up in Hungary or doing something completely different (no need to say what)?antifrank1 said:
I'm flying out of town on Monday. I'll be returning to pb when autumn leaves start to fall.Charles said:
I thought he had gone away for the summerantifrank1 said:
He's still around. But on this computer he logs into a different gmail account, so needs a different username.RobD said:
A fair point.antifrank1 said:The story uses up time. The Conservatives need to use the weeks remaining to close the gap between Labour and the Conservatives. The story may not change a single vote. That doesn't matter. The Conservatives are the ones needing to change votes.
What happened to the original antifrank?
I am not taking a phone with me. In the three months that I'm away, I am intending to go online only to print out plane tickets. I'm taking notebooks instead.0 -
You haven't used a smartphone on a Tube recently I take it.TheWatcher said:
Expect silence for a while, whilst Bob pretends that he's in a tunnel.isam said:
How are you posting on the tube? Shepherds Bush is deep underground isn't it?BobaFett said:Still think it will make no difference but just to say the "Cameron under fire" story leads tonight's Standard.
Can't see anyone actually reading it on this Tube though :-o
Your posts are odd, and somewhat creepy.0 -
''Yes Mr Fox, that’s the story I was referring to. – Horrible business, these turf wars, innocent bystanders always end up caught in the cross fire.''
My attention was drawn to a court case (from the Mail Monday ) where a man was allegedly viciously attacked by a gang of young men in East London, seemingly for the crime of drinking in public.
And then on Tuesday the Standard ran a story the police are investigating a case where a gay couple were allegedly insulted and intimidated by another 'gang', again in east London.
I don;t want to be more specific but perhaps you'll get the drift from the above.0 -
England team greeted by one elderly woman at Manchester airport as they arrive back in the UK:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html0 -
There was some excellent policing after the incidents. Just the right combination of community liaison and presence on the streets to keep further problems or even rioting.
Lessons perhaps learned from the Handsworth riots some years ago:
http://kenanmalik.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/what-is-wrong-with-multiculturalism-part-2/
Malik writes a very provoking critique of multiculturism.SimonStClare said:@foxinsoxuk – Yes Mr Fox, that’s the story I was referring to. – Horrible business, these turf wars, innocent bystanders always end up caught in the cross fire.
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It all sounds very 'pre-prepared' in good antifrank manner. Azerbaijan is a little "brave" though. Interesting food if you avoid the new restaurants trying to be international.antifrank1 said:
I shall be flying to Hungary, where I intend to do a lot of fruit picking, cycling and swimming in the country. Within Hungary I shall be visiting the Tokay and Villany wine regions. I shall also be making excursions to Azerbaijan, Austria, Slovenia, north east Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland (north and south), rural Suffolk and Montenegro. There may be other jaunts.AveryLP said:
Are you holing up in Hungary or doing something completely different (no need to say what)?antifrank1 said:
I'm flying out of town on Monday. I'll be returning to pb when autumn leaves start to fall.Charles said:
I thought he had gone away for the summerantifrank1 said:
He's still around. But on this computer he logs into a different gmail account, so needs a different username.RobD said:
A fair point.antifrank1 said:The story uses up time. The Conservatives need to use the weeks remaining to close the gap between Labour and the Conservatives. The story may not change a single vote. That doesn't matter. The Conservatives are the ones needing to change votes.
What happened to the original antifrank?
I am not taking a phone with me. In the three months that I'm away, I am intending to go online only to print out plane tickets. I'm taking notebooks instead.
Why not buy a "Vinum Regum, Rex Vinorum" estate when in Tokaj ?
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I wouldn't know about that Bob, being in France. Here in Paris, the evening sun is glinting off the Seine as onion sellers in stripy jumpers cycle along the Avenue des Champs-Élysée.BobaFett said:
You haven't used a smartphone on a Tube recently I take it.TheWatcher said:
Expect silence for a while, whilst Bob pretends that he's in a tunnel.isam said:
How are you posting on the tube? Shepherds Bush is deep underground isn't it?BobaFett said:Still think it will make no difference but just to say the "Cameron under fire" story leads tonight's Standard.
Can't see anyone actually reading it on this Tube though :-o
Your posts are odd, and somewhat creepy.0 -
Important to remember North sea oil has declined whilst US shale oil and gas have expanded rapidly in that period, in spite of Obama.
Again my key point is a financial crisis is far dire than a recession, it's the banking system that matters.0 -
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Ugh, as someone who quite enjoys an infographic, the colouring of those pie segments makes no sense!taffys said:0 -
No, no, no. We've all just misunderstood them. It's a religion of peace after all.taffys said:0 -
@Sun_Politics: John Cruddas accuses Labour frontbenchers of plotting against Ed Miliband: http://t.co/oxEfqKxvEw
ED Miliband's policy chief has sensationally accused Labour frontbenchers of plotting against their leader.
John Cruddas suggested shadow cabinet trio Andy Burnham, Ed Balls and Yvette Cooper were positioning themselves to succeed their boss.
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