politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If reports of private polling are accurate then the Greens
At the last general election one of the most active constituency betting markets was on Brighton Pavillion where, as we all know, Caroline Lucas won through with a 31.3% vote share to become the Green party’s first MP. The result and vote changes are in the chart above.
Comments
-
First .... again!
I've long thought that backing Labour to regain Brighton Pavilion was one of the surest bets in the forthcoming GE.0 -
Are they having that referendum down there?0
-
If I thought Screaming Lord Such would beat Caroline Lucas, I would vote for him. For that matter, I would vote Labour, LibDem, Conservative, or UKIP to unseat her.
I regard the Green Party - or, as I prefer to call them, the Enemies of Progress - as perhaps the ultimate evil. A group of people whose religion is so strong, it allows them to stamp on the very concept of individuality and freedom of choice. While I suspect my view is a lonely one, I regard the Green Party is as more dangerous to our way of life and our fundamental freedoms than fundamentalist Islam or the BNP. It is communism hidden behind the smiling face of the British middle classes.
I would take Farage or Clegg or Milliband or Cameron or any one of a number of insincere political apparatchiks - all of whom at least believe in the democratic process - ahead of any true believer in the Green religion.0 -
And I am fast coming around to the idea that the current Libdem implosion in the polls might ameliorate any problems that the UKIP polling might be causing for Conservatives in the run up to the next GE in the marginal seats where it matters....peter_from_putney said:
First .... again!
I've long thought that backing Labour to regain Brighton Pavilion was one of the surest bets in the forthcoming GE.0 -
These figures are surprising: I've always thought she'd either win or lose by a small margin, not in the region of 16%.0
-
" It is communism hidden behind the smiling face of the British middle classes."
rcs 1000 gets it in one. Just how much does the average voter really know about the main planks of the Green Party's policies? Very, very little I suspect.
O/T Those punters who backed Suarez to leave Liverpool during the summer transfer window and who are now concerned about their chances in the light of the latest biting allegations against the player, have the opportunity to reverse their bet by taking Corals' 5/4 odds that he will NOT leave Liverpool by the close of this transfer window.0 -
All you need to do is ask a few random people in the area what they think of the Greens and the way they have run the council. I'd take some ear defenders if I were you.0
-
A lot depends on whether the voters will be able to, or be inclined to, or want to, make a distinction between the Green council (with its self-destructive splits between the watermelons and the mangoes) and the Green MP; and/or whether they will want to vote tactically for the Green Party in order to keep out Labour or vote tactically for the Labour Party to get out the Green.SquareRoot said:All you need to do is ask a few random people in the area what they think of the Greens and the way they have run the council. I'd take some ear defenders if I were you.
0 -
Mike - I see there's an 'ell of a difference between us!0
-
Great post.rcs1000 said:If I thought Screaming Lord Such would beat Caroline Lucas, I would vote for him. For that matter, I would vote Labour, LibDem, Conservative, or UKIP to unseat her.
I regard the Green Party - or, as I prefer to call them, the Enemies of Progress - as perhaps the ultimate evil. A group of people whose religion is so strong, it allows them to stamp on the very concept of individuality and freedom of choice. While I suspect my view is a lonely one, I regard the Green Party is as more dangerous to our way of life and our fundamental freedoms than fundamentalist Islam or the BNP. It is communism hidden behind the smiling face of the British middle classes.
I would take Farage or Clegg or Milliband or Cameron or any one of a number of insincere political apparatchiks - all of whom at least believe in the democratic process - ahead of any true believer in the Green religion.
0 -
Good0
-
@rcs1000 +1
although I think National Socialism as practiced by The Great Vegetarian as Auberon Waugh Called Mrs Merkels late predecessor as Chancellor is nearer the mark than communist as this blog entry explains
http://www.martindurkin.com/blogs/nazi-greens-inconvenient-history0 -
Mike.
Do you know if the poll named Lucas ? .... If not that would make quite a difference to the numbers. Further Lucas will be very high profile in the General Election campaign and the Greens will pour resources into the seat to retain it.
The latest ARSE, published yesterday, has the Greens on one seat and although this seat isn't part of the "JackW Dozen" I think PBers wouldn't be too far from the mark to infer a Green hold.0 -
Did the poll give any figures? And what about UKIP?
Although I wouldn’t have thought this seat was very fertile territory for them.0 -
I'm not ultra convinced. But its a Smithson tip and better than evens in a 2 horse race.
11-10 is OK for a gamble on a coin flip.... £10 on.
0 -
I also agree with Robert. If I lived in Brighton Pavilion I would vote Labour, provided I had not heard or seen too much of Ed looking smug in the week before. It is an odious choice and I would pity those that do live in the constituency if it was not their own choices.0
-
Paging Neil.... sounds like his sort of thread...0
-
Well, well, well. More bile than usual this morning. I wonder why so many Peebies are so afraid of a political party that isn't even trying to win a second seat?0
-
Norwich South?Innocent_Abroad said:Well, well, well. More bile than usual this morning. I wonder why so many Peebies are so afraid of a political party that isn't even trying to win a second seat?
0 -
Hitler was not vegetarian. He was particularly fond of liver dumplings.
Not that it matters much.Paul_Mid_Beds said:@rcs1000 +1
although I think National Socialism as practiced by The Great Vegetarian as Auberon Waugh Called Mrs Merkels late predecessor as Chancellor is nearer the mark than communist as this blog entry explains
http://www.martindurkin.com/blogs/nazi-greens-inconvenient-history0 -
May be you have a different definition of the word "bile"?Innocent_Abroad said:Well, well, well. More bile than usual this morning. I wonder why so many Peebies are so afraid of a political party that isn't even trying to win a second seat?
Seems to me there have been a few comments expressing fundamental disagreements with the Green party's underlying philosophy.
But that's reasonable debate, expressed in moderate terms, not bile.
The fact that so many Liberal/right leaning voters would rather vote Labour than support the Greens suggests how they are perceived (at least in this audience) with respect to their political offering.0 -
OK, I'll give you that. Let's say they win it, and two more in 2020, and four more in 2025 - they're hardly likely to become the government before we're all boxed up for the furnace. So why the bile?OldKingCole said:
Norwich South?Innocent_Abroad said:Well, well, well. More bile than usual this morning. I wonder why so many Peebies are so afraid of a political party that isn't even trying to win a second seat?
0 -
He was not noted for his environmental policies either, what with his building of all those autobhans. Tiger tanks were famously fuel inefficient!
German greenism is more rooted in the romanticism of the 18th century than more recent political phenomena; as indeed it is in Britain. Greenism is more Blake than than Bolshevism, which is why Jerusalem has such resonance as Englands unofficial national anthem.foxinsoxuk said:Hitler was not vegetarian. He was particularly fond of liver dumplings.
Not that it matters much.Paul_Mid_Beds said:@rcs1000 +1
although I think National Socialism as practiced by The Great Vegetarian as Auberon Waugh Called Mrs Merkels late predecessor as Chancellor is nearer the mark than communist as this blog entry explains
http://www.martindurkin.com/blogs/nazi-greens-inconvenient-history0 -
I had a look at the Greens mini-manifesto this morning, just to see if they were, in fact, the monster hiding under our beds.
It's not that scary - it's a collection of ideas that would have unfortunate results if ever they were implemented, but that's not going to happen.0 -
Charles, I expect we have the same definition of bile. And as you know perfectly well, I am referring to the style rather than the substance of the comments. I daresay that "this audience" has - with honourable exceptions such as OGH and Nick P - more "stuff" than most people. It occurs to me that this comments column serves the same purpose that religious attendance does for not a few folk: it puts off the evil day when they will have to own up to the fact that they need help.Charles said:
May be you have a different definition of the word "bile"?Innocent_Abroad said:Well, well, well. More bile than usual this morning. I wonder why so many Peebies are so afraid of a political party that isn't even trying to win a second seat?
Seems to me there have been a few comments expressing fundamental disagreements with the Green party's underlying philosophy.
But that's reasonable debate, expressed in moderate terms, not bile.
The fact that so many Liberal/right leaning voters would rather vote Labour than support the Greens suggests how they are perceived (at least in this audience) with respect to their political offering.
0 -
The vote shares you suggest above are interesting though:
- Lab 39% / GRN 23%
Assuming Labour has kept all it's 2010 voters, it is on +10%, while the Greens are down 8%.
That suggests that either Labour has made minimal inroads into the LD (about 15% of their 2010 votes, dramatically lower than previous numbers)
Alternatively, it could be that they have taken more a more normal share of the LD (for sake of argument let's say 33% for LD10 - i.e. about half the defectors) as I forget the exact numbers. That would mean Labour has gained about 4% from the LD and 6% from the Greens, suggesting that a proportion of the Green vote is going NOTA.
At this point it becomes supposition...
I wonder if the LD10 vote is already lacking the protest froth that was seen in other constituencies: i.e. that in 2010 the "protest" vote actually went to the Greens. This might partially explain their rapid decline - protest voters preferring purity to the hard yards of actual government [even at the council level].
However, what this implies is that - even if Labour takes it's normal slice of the LibDems - there is a core vote for the LibDems of c. 10% (because the shift to UKIP in other areas is really a shift of protest voters and it doesn't look like there is much available to move).
Now, I know it is only one constituency (are there any others where there was a viable alternative protest vote in 2010?) but that's a lot of unproductive votes for the LibDems. Given how tight their "Zulu strategy" is, how would this impact the calculations?0 -
Wow, Labour or Green...what a choice to have to make!0
-
I'd tend to judge "bile" on content rather than style.Innocent_Abroad said:
Charles, I expect we have the same definition of bile. And as you know perfectly well, I am referring to the style rather than the substance of the comments. I daresay that "this audience" has - with honourable exceptions such as OGH and Nick P - more "stuff" than most people. It occurs to me that this comments column serves the same purpose that religious attendance does for not a few folk: it puts off the evil day when they will have to own up to the fact that they need help.Charles said:
May be you have a different definition of the word "bile"?Innocent_Abroad said:Well, well, well. More bile than usual this morning. I wonder why so many Peebies are so afraid of a political party that isn't even trying to win a second seat?
Seems to me there have been a few comments expressing fundamental disagreements with the Green party's underlying philosophy.
But that's reasonable debate, expressed in moderate terms, not bile.
The fact that so many Liberal/right leaning voters would rather vote Labour than support the Greens suggests how they are perceived (at least in this audience) with respect to their political offering.
There have only been two comments that have been that negative*:" rcs1000's moderately phrased but uncompromising philosophical positions and dr spyn's comment, which might fall into your definition but seems to me relatively mild compared to some of the views expressed on here.
Perhaps you can explain why you think there is "more bile than usual" this morning?
* Ignoring DavidL's reference to an "odious choice"0 -
Brighton shows, even now, the power of a bin strike.Bin collection is the most visible of all local authority services and affects every household and when this goes wrong and lives start getting disrupted,the whole LA's authority comes under question.Latent fears about the return of "The Black Death" take hold and the urban foxes have a field day.In this case,the minority Green-controlled council,who happen to be led by a man called Kitkat,made this fundamental error.
The public in Brighton may agree with the Greens on fracking,or whatever,but first and foremost they want their bins collected which is more likely to happen under Labour who have committed to keeping the streets of Brighton clean,a case of better-the-devil-you-know.0 -
Innocent_Abroad said:
Charles, I expect we have the same definition of bile. And as you know perfectly well, I am referring to the style rather than the substance of the comments. I daresay that "this audience" has - with honourable exceptions such as OGH and Nick P - more "stuff" than most people. It occurs to me that this comments column serves the same purpose that religious attendance does for not a few folk: it puts off the evil day when they will have to own up to the fact that they need help.Charles said:
May be you have a different definition of the word "bile"?Innocent_Abroad said:Well, well, well. More bile than usual this morning. I wonder why so many Peebies are so afraid of a political party that isn't even trying to win a second seat?
Seems to me there have been a few comments expressing fundamental disagreements with the Green party's underlying philosophy.
But that's reasonable debate, expressed in moderate terms, not bile.
The fact that so many Liberal/right leaning voters would rather vote Labour than support the Greens suggests how they are perceived (at least in this audience) with respect to their political offering.
for "bile" read anyone who isn't in agreement with Innocent Abroad.0 -
This was probably reported yesterday, but:
Voters back Cameron’s stance in fight against Juncker - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d6cc46ac-fbb0-11e3-9a03-00144feab7de.html
A Populus/FT poll found that...43 per cent of voters think that Mr Cameron was right to try to block Mr Juncker’s appointment to the top job in Brussels.
...49 per cent thought the prime minister was “strong” in taking his stand while only 22 per cent believed he would be seen as weak if – as expected – Mr Juncker’s appointment goes through anyway.0 -
If you think "the ultimate evil" is a moderate phrase, I'd like you to give an example of an extreme one...Charles said:
I'd tend to judge "bile" on content rather than style.Innocent_Abroad said:
Charles, I expect we have the same definition of bile. And as you know perfectly well, I am referring to the style rather than the substance of the comments. I daresay that "this audience" has - with honourable exceptions such as OGH and Nick P - more "stuff" than most people. It occurs to me that this comments column serves the same purpose that religious attendance does for not a few folk: it puts off the evil day when they will have to own up to the fact that they need help.Charles said:
May be you have a different definition of the word "bile"?Innocent_Abroad said:Well, well, well. More bile than usual this morning. I wonder why so many Peebies are so afraid of a political party that isn't even trying to win a second seat?
Seems to me there have been a few comments expressing fundamental disagreements with the Green party's underlying philosophy.
But that's reasonable debate, expressed in moderate terms, not bile.
The fact that so many Liberal/right leaning voters would rather vote Labour than support the Greens suggests how they are perceived (at least in this audience) with respect to their political offering.
There have only been two comments that have been that negative*:" rcs1000's moderately phrased but uncompromising philosophical positions and dr spyn's comment, which might fall into your definition but seems to me relatively mild compared to some of the views expressed on here.
Perhaps you can explain why you think there is "more bile than usual" this morning?
* Ignoring DavidL's reference to an "odious choice"
0 -
What happened to the useful FT/Populus monthly aggregate poll for May?0
-
It is no wonder that the colour of bile ranges from green to Brownish yellow.
Nor that bile is produced by the liver which no doubt explains Adolf's dining preferences.
If IA had added "bloody" as an adjectival intensifier, we could have added red to colour spectrum of PB Lefties' commentary.
All distinguished comment on PB is blue of hue. See malcolmg for example.0 -
Indeed. But not my style...AveryLP said:It is no wonder that the colour of bile ranges from green to Brownish yellow.
Nor that bile is produced by the liver which no doubt explains Adolf's dining preferences.
If IA had added "bloody" as an adjectival intensifier, we could have added red to colour spectrum of PB Lefties' commentary.
0 -
Morning all and RCS can you not find a way of re-introducing a "like" button. Many of us would wish an opportunity from time to time to record our support for comments made by others without having to quote and often cut a longer piece.
Incidentally I agree 100% with RCS about the Greens. They are fanatics and of course in Scotland they let the SNP claim not to be the YESNP because they are propping up Eck's campaign. They are also a bunch of Republicans and for Jack W and me that is ample reason to consign them to the Tower on bread and water rations.
In honour of my noble ancestor Robert the Bruce I must try to upset more republican lefties if possible and of course Ed is crap.0 -
As I said, an uncompromising philosophical position. But not demonstrating the bitterness or viciousness that is usually associated with "bile".Innocent_Abroad said:
If you think "the ultimate evil" is a moderate phrase, I'd like you to give an example of an extreme one...Charles said:
I'd tend to judge "bile" on content rather than style.Innocent_Abroad said:
Charles, I expect we have the same definition of bile. And as you know perfectly well, I am referring to the style rather than the substance of the comments. I daresay that "this audience" has - with honourable exceptions such as OGH and Nick P - more "stuff" than most people. It occurs to me that this comments column serves the same purpose that religious attendance does for not a few folk: it puts off the evil day when they will have to own up to the fact that they need help.Charles said:
May be you have a different definition of the word "bile"?Innocent_Abroad said:Well, well, well. More bile than usual this morning. I wonder why so many Peebies are so afraid of a political party that isn't even trying to win a second seat?
Seems to me there have been a few comments expressing fundamental disagreements with the Green party's underlying philosophy.
But that's reasonable debate, expressed in moderate terms, not bile.
The fact that so many Liberal/right leaning voters would rather vote Labour than support the Greens suggests how they are perceived (at least in this audience) with respect to their political offering.
There have only been two comments that have been that negative*:" rcs1000's moderately phrased but uncompromising philosophical positions and dr spyn's comment, which might fall into your definition but seems to me relatively mild compared to some of the views expressed on here.
Perhaps you can explain why you think there is "more bile than usual" this morning?
* Ignoring DavidL's reference to an "odious choice"
0 -
The head of the Commission has always been the choice of the European Council, that is the heads of government and it has always been a consensual choice which meant at least the big boys got an effective veto of those they did not think they could work with. Juncker is the choice of the Parliament which cedes important power to that deeply flawed institution and has run an aggressive campaign against the British aggravating the difficulties in having a constructive relationship going forward.Millsy said:This was probably reported yesterday, but:
Voters back Cameron’s stance in fight against Juncker - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d6cc46ac-fbb0-11e3-9a03-00144feab7de.html
A Populus/FT poll found that...43 per cent of voters think that Mr Cameron was right to try to block Mr Juncker’s appointment to the top job in Brussels.
...49 per cent thought the prime minister was “strong” in taking his stand while only 22 per cent believed he would be seen as weak if – as expected – Mr Juncker’s appointment goes through anyway.
It is also noteworthy that both Clegg and Miliband have opposed the appointment as well. If Juncker is appointed in the face of such fierce and united UK opposition I fear it will be a major step towards the exit for this country. What are the chances from here that Juncker will facilitate the kind of changes that Cameron could sell in a referendum?
Cameron is rightly demonstrating the breakdown in consensus by demanding a formal vote on the matter. There is quite a lot at stake here but the impression given by some EU members is that they don't care.
0 -
When you're in a hole, Charles, it's best to stop digging.Charles said:
As I said, an uncompromising philosophical position. But not demonstrating the bitterness or viciousness that is usually associated with "bile".Innocent_Abroad said:
If you think "the ultimate evil" is a moderate phrase, I'd like you to give an example of an extreme one...Charles said:
I'd tend to judge "bile" on content rather than style.Innocent_Abroad said:
Charles, I expect we have the same definition of bile. And as you know perfectly well, I am referring to the style rather than the substance of the comments. I daresay that "this audience" has - with honourable exceptions such as OGH and Nick P - more "stuff" than most people. It occurs to me that this comments column serves the same purpose that religious attendance does for not a few folk: it puts off the evil day when they will have to own up to the fact that they need help.Charles said:
May be you have a different definition of the word "bile"?Innocent_Abroad said:Well, well, well. More bile than usual this morning. I wonder why so many Peebies are so afraid of a political party that isn't even trying to win a second seat?
Seems to me there have been a few comments expressing fundamental disagreements with the Green party's underlying philosophy.
But that's reasonable debate, expressed in moderate terms, not bile.
The fact that so many Liberal/right leaning voters would rather vote Labour than support the Greens suggests how they are perceived (at least in this audience) with respect to their political offering.
There have only been two comments that have been that negative*:" rcs1000's moderately phrased but uncompromising philosophical positions and dr spyn's comment, which might fall into your definition but seems to me relatively mild compared to some of the views expressed on here.
Perhaps you can explain why you think there is "more bile than usual" this morning?
* Ignoring DavidL's reference to an "odious choice"
0 -
Question is where the right on LibDem voters go in this most right on of constituencies. If a substantial number go Green it could be close. Although I'm Labour it would be a shame to lose the one green MP - apart from thinking they have a point on a nnumber of issues their presence in the Commons seems to upset some of you, so on that basis alone it'd be funny if she stayed.0
-
I see after all his bluster that Darling and No Scotland campaign have chickened out of the debate with Alex Salmond. Not being able to fix the script means they have chickened out instead, even after all their boasting. Ha Ha Ha what a bunch of NO Hopers.0
-
EU14 results for Brighton & Hove
Labour Party 20,414
Green Party 18,586
Conservative Party 15,626
UK Independence Party (UKIP) 14,205
Liberal Democrats 4,025
An Independence from Europe 773
The Peace Party - Non-violence, Justice, Environment 474
The Socialist Party of Great Britain 397
Christian Peoples Alliance 380
British National Party 309
English Democrats 278
The Roman Party. Ave 114
YOURvoice 108
Harmony Party 51
Liberty Great Britain 41
0 -
I'm glad you recognise the weakness of your position ;-)Innocent_Abroad said:
When you're in a hole, Charles, it's best to stop digging.
Until malcomg joined it was actually a relatively polite thread0 -
Yep , Greens are toast in Brighton Pavilion . Relatives and friends who voted for them in 2010 and 2011 locals have been telling me for the last two years never again and whilst never may be too long a time scale it will certainly last beyond 2015 .0
-
B&H Council Election 2011
Green 23
Cons 18
Labour 130 -
The non story of Cameron's appalling lack of judgement hiring Coulson. I take it the "non story" line would also be taken if it was a Labour PM that had hired him......?0
-
Not sure I've noticed much about Lucas locally - except re fracking. The rest has been national/principle stuff. Parking's the biggest issue here. Not a great one for the Greens.
Anyway, I have a fifty quid bet on with Neil re this *insert cocktail/train joke*.
EDIT: plus they've really fecked up some of the main local routes with a daft* bus lane system.
*even the bus companies think so.0 -
Good morning, everyone.
I too hope Lucas is tossed overboard by the electorate.0 -
Yes. The simple fact pattern is that, at the time he was hired, Coulson had not been charged of any criminal activity. He assured Cameron that he was not aware of phone hacking.RochdalePioneers said:The non story of Cameron's appalling lack of judgement hiring Coulson. I take it the "non story" line would also be taken if it was a Labour PM that had hired him......?
Cameron took a man at his word, presumably backed up by appropriate references and a vetting process, and gave him a second chance.
One of the cultural developments of the last decade or so that I'm most concerned about is that a single mistake is now expected to cloud someone's entire life (as well as the automatic view that resignation is the only suitable punishment for a mistake). Redemption has to remain a possibility.0 -
Mr. Charles, indeed. Saw ITV News at Ten last night and it seemed they were seriously over-egging the cake (Miliband in particular. A 'taint' on the government? Really?)0
-
Atheist deemed 'mentally ill', and apparently forced into a mental hospital:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-280102340 -
That's a great bet, PfP.peter_from_putney said:" It is communism hidden behind the smiling face of the British middle classes."
O/T Those punters who backed Suarez to leave Liverpool during the summer transfer window and who are now concerned about their chances in the light of the latest biting allegations against the player, have the opportunity to reverse their bet by taking Corals' 5/4 odds that he will NOT leave Liverpool by the close of this transfer window.
The odds are he faces a ban from International football, possibly a long one if FIFA decides the evidence of biting is clear enough. Either way, he suddenly becomes much more difficult to sell.
The problem of course is the sponsors. 888Poker are already regretting their decision to invest in his brand. Adidas and Sony will also be wondering whether they have bitten off more than he can chew this time. Any major club that might have been interested in this brilliant footballer are sure to be getting the thumbs down from their own sponsors. And that's without considering the distinct possibility that he does it again in a League match, and gets the kind of ban that puts him out until he reaches pensionable age.
Looks like Luis is going to be at Liverpool until that contract expires.
0 -
The magic of PB - Labour into 4-5 from 11-10.0
-
What are you talking about you stuck up ponce. You think you decide who posts. I put on a perfectly reasonable post , much better than the usual Tory claptrap that you post and you attack me. You cowardly clown go kick one of your servants if you are in a bad mood.Charles said:
I'm glad you recognise the weakness of your position ;-)Innocent_Abroad said:
When you're in a hole, Charles, it's best to stop digging.
Until malcomg joined it was actually a relatively polite thread0 -
Perhaps the Greens poll numbers will behave like the LDs used to. Support appearing to dip between elections as they are not mentioned in the news?
0 -
I note Shadsy has the Lib Dems at a miserly 33-1 for this seat.
That won't tempt anyone, Shaddick - stick a zero or two on the end !0 -
Morning all. If the good people of Brighton decide that tossing Caroline Lucas on the nearest compost heap at the next election is preferable to her sitting in Parliament then I shall be delighted.0
-
F1: interestingly, Williams appear to have the same sort of setup (for the turbo/cooler) as Mercedes:
http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2014/923/1197.html
It was thought to be unique to Mercedes, and one of the reasons for their advantage over everyone else. This may explain why Williams and not Force India were so close to them in Austria.
I also read, on the Sky site, that McLaren have 'made an approach' to Hamilton (it was labelled a silly season story). I don't think that would necessarily burden him with excessive contemplation.0 -
Is there any suggestion that Coulson acted illegally at any time after leaving the NOTW?
Was Coulson charged with anything when he was hired by Cameron?
If not; then I for one am bored of this story. The real scandal is the cost of the whole affair at £100 million to m'learned friends and the police. Money that would have been better spent on so many other things.
A tabloid journalist is a bit dodgy? Well I never!Charles said:
Yes. The simple fact pattern is that, at the time he was hired, Coulson had not been charged of any criminal activity. He assured Cameron that he was not aware of phone hacking.RochdalePioneers said:The non story of Cameron's appalling lack of judgement hiring Coulson. I take it the "non story" line would also be taken if it was a Labour PM that had hired him......?
Cameron took a man at his word, presumably backed up by appropriate references and a vetting process, and gave him a second chance.
One of the cultural developments of the last decade or so that I'm most concerned about is that a single mistake is now expected to cloud someone's entire life (as well as the automatic view that resignation is the only suitable punishment for a mistake). Redemption has to remain a possibility.0 -
Aggressive uncompromising theism in all it's pernicious forms needs to be purged from the earth.Morris_Dancer said:Atheist deemed 'mentally ill', and apparently forced into a mental hospital:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28010234
0 -
And the bait gets snapped up...malcolmg said:
What are you talking about you stuck up ponce. You think you decide who posts. I put on a perfectly reasonable post , much better than the usual Tory claptrap that you post and you attack me. You cowardly clown go kick one of your servants if you are in a bad mood.Charles said:
I'm glad you recognise the weakness of your position ;-)Innocent_Abroad said:
When you're in a hole, Charles, it's best to stop digging.
Until malcomg joined it was actually a relatively polite thread0 -
Sky News are bigging up PMQs as a gladiatorial contest where EdM will attempt to throw Dave to the lions over Coulson.
Unlikely, given the request made by Mr Justice Saunders to the media:
"I've become aware of the commenting that's gone on since the verdicts have been announced and I urge restraint on anyone from commenting further because the jury is still out considering verdicts in relation to Andy Coulson,"
And then later, after thanking the media for their co-operation, he urged politicians to show restraint in commenting on the trial because it is still ongoing.
It should be noted that the jury has been recalled for 11:00 am to continue their deliberations on the final four charges. It seems unlikely that the jury will have delivered their verdicts before PMQs kicks off at 12:00.
If Ed does lead on Coulson he would risk accused of considering himself 'above the law'.
With Coulson and phone hacking ruled out, what is left for Ed to ask? Suarez and the World Cup I expect. After all, backbiting is his specialist subject.0 -
Yep the bus lane system is crass along with the 2 feet long cycle lanes too short too even put your bicycle in .Carola said:Not sure I've noticed much about Lucas locally - except re fracking. The rest has been national/principle stuff. Parking's the biggest issue here. Not a great one for the Greens.
Anyway, I have a fifty quid bet on with Neil re this *insert cocktail/train joke*.
EDIT: plus they've really fecked up some of the main local routes with a daft* bus lane system.
*even the bus companies think so.0 -
I've always regarded the Greens as harmless Hippies born too late. A sort of Neil out of "The Young Ones" rather than our Neil.
I'd only be worried if they began take seats other than token ones. At my age, I'm too old to live in a cave and exist on plant roots, but it isn't gonna happen.0 -
Sounds like a tip - £20 on.Peter_the_Punter said:
That's a great bet, PfP.peter_from_putney said:" It is communism hidden behind the smiling face of the British middle classes."
O/T Those punters who backed Suarez to leave Liverpool during the summer transfer window and who are now concerned about their chances in the light of the latest biting allegations against the player, have the opportunity to reverse their bet by taking Corals' 5/4 odds that he will NOT leave Liverpool by the close of this transfer window.
The odds are he faces a ban from International football, possibly a long one if FIFA decides the evidence of biting is clear enough. Either way, he suddenly becomes much more difficult to sell.
The problem of course is the sponsors. 888Poker are already regretting their decision to invest in his brand. Adidas and Sony will also be wondering whether they have bitten off more than he can chew this time. Any major club that might have been interested in this brilliant footballer are sure to be getting the thumbs down from their own sponsors. And that's without considering the distinct possibility that he does it again in a League match, and gets the kind of ban that puts him out until he reaches pensionable age.
Looks like Luis is going to be at Liverpool until that contract expires.0 -
The Greens problem in Brighton is not that they have not been appearing in the news but that they are the news . Taking over the running of the council in 2011 was their death knell .anotherDave said:Perhaps the Greens poll numbers will behave like the LDs used to. Support appearing to dip between elections as they are not mentioned in the news?
0 -
Morning Pulpy.Pulpstar said:I note Shadsy has the Lib Dems at a miserly 33-1 for this seat.
That won't tempt anyone, Shaddick - stick a zero or two on the end !
Most big outsiders are quoted far too low but the reason is not fear or avarice on the part of the bookies. They know the punters won't have them at any price, so there's no point in sticking a couple of zeros on the end. Shadsy wouldn't take a penny more on the LDs in Brighton even if he did stick them up at 3,300/1.
He knows his job.
0 -
Blimey Charles really is the definition of patronising toff educated well beyond ability.0
-
Oh you are a cad , baiting people. Poncy halfwit.Charles said:
And the bait gets snapped up...malcolmg said:
What are you talking about you stuck up ponce. You think you decide who posts. I put on a perfectly reasonable post , much better than the usual Tory claptrap that you post and you attack me. You cowardly clown go kick one of your servants if you are in a bad mood.Charles said:
I'm glad you recognise the weakness of your position ;-)Innocent_Abroad said:
When you're in a hole, Charles, it's best to stop digging.
Until malcomg joined it was actually a relatively polite thread0 -
Dr. Sox
The Nabavi of All Sussex recommended a Telegraph article on the phone hacking trial last night.
It was truly a good article and well worth reading if you missed it yesterday.
The link again: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/phone-hacking/10924054/Wicked-Witch-Rebekah-Brooks-was-not-so-wicked-after-all.htmlfoxinsoxuk said:Is there any suggestion that Coulson acted illegally at any time after leaving the NOTW?
Was Coulson charged with anything when he was hired by Cameron?
If not; then I for one am bored of this story. The real scandal is the cost of the whole affair at £100 million to m'learned friends and the police. Money that would have been better spent on so many other things.
A tabloid journalist is a bit dodgy? Well I never!Charles said:
Yes. The simple fact pattern is that, at the time he was hired, Coulson had not been charged of any criminal activity. He assured Cameron that he was not aware of phone hacking.RochdalePioneers said:The non story of Cameron's appalling lack of judgement hiring Coulson. I take it the "non story" line would also be taken if it was a Labour PM that had hired him......?
Cameron took a man at his word, presumably backed up by appropriate references and a vetting process, and gave him a second chance.
One of the cultural developments of the last decade or so that I'm most concerned about is that a single mistake is now expected to cloud someone's entire life (as well as the automatic view that resignation is the only suitable punishment for a mistake). Redemption has to remain a possibility.0 -
Brighton is home to two universities, so it has more than its fair share of theoretical academia (and sundry great & good) who are often well insulated from practicality and its effects.
As B&H is reputed to be the 'home base' of the L&Gs as well as those of the uncertain nature, if they put up a candidate, then that would make an interesting election.0 -
On the whole phone hacking subject, my reading is that the general public, the people who buy the Sun, People and Mirror etc were quite enthralled with all the hacked information that filled acres of column inches, month in and month out. However the Milly Dowler intrusion was considered to be beyond the pale and to a lesser extent the McCanns, though personally I have no sympathy with the McCanns.
I seriously question what the CPS in England and Crown Office in Scotland define as being "in the public interest". As a member of the public, I see their priority to be prosecuting allegedly violent individuals, drug dealers, international terrorists, those believed to have seriously misused public office or accused of substantial misappropriation of other peoples' property and the like. Too many of these high profile trials are based on flimsy evidence and too much faux public outrage.0 -
Looking at the EU election results would suggest Caroline Lucas has a chance. Brighton and Hove is ultra left-wing. There can't be many places where the Greens came second and UKIP fourth.0
-
I agree with your analysis but would say "hope" in place of "fear".DavidL said:
The head of the Commission has always been the choice of the European Council, that is the heads of government and it has always been a consensual choice which meant at least the big boys got an effective veto of those they did not think they could work with. Juncker is the choice of the Parliament which cedes important power to that deeply flawed institution and has run an aggressive campaign against the British aggravating the difficulties in having a constructive relationship going forward.Millsy said:This was probably reported yesterday, but:
Voters back Cameron’s stance in fight against Juncker - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d6cc46ac-fbb0-11e3-9a03-00144feab7de.html
A Populus/FT poll found that...43 per cent of voters think that Mr Cameron was right to try to block Mr Juncker’s appointment to the top job in Brussels.
...49 per cent thought the prime minister was “strong” in taking his stand while only 22 per cent believed he would be seen as weak if – as expected – Mr Juncker’s appointment goes through anyway.
It is also noteworthy that both Clegg and Miliband have opposed the appointment as well. If Juncker is appointed in the face of such fierce and united UK opposition I fear it will be a major step towards the exit for this country. What are the chances from here that Juncker will facilitate the kind of changes that Cameron could sell in a referendum?
Cameron is rightly demonstrating the breakdown in consensus by demanding a formal vote on the matter. There is quite a lot at stake here but the impression given by some EU members is that they don't care.
0 -
Have found that the Greens have often an over-proportionate influence in the EA as well as the Energy Ministry. They are well financed and have some good connections.CD13 said:
I've always regarded the Greens as harmless Hippies born too late. A sort of Neil out of "The Young Ones" rather than our Neil.
I'd only be worried if they began take seats other than token ones. At my age, I'm too old to live in a cave and exist on plant roots, but it isn't gonna happen.
Together with WWF and others of that ilk they project an endangered-beautiful animal image behind which they pursue their political ambitions. Often I have found that public economics do not concern them, but they are very keen to make sure their personal economy is not threatened.0 -
If phone hacking is such a horrendous crime, what about rooting through someone's dustbin, quizzing someone's friends or googling for facts about someone?. It's basically what some of the press have done for years, and it's all an intrusion on privacy.
What happened to the bribing the police charges? Far more serious, I would have thought.0 -
I am not sure it can be a case of either/or. If the law was broken then it is incumbent upon the CPS to prosecute.Easterross said:On the whole phone hacking subject, my reading is that the general public, the people who buy the Sun, People and Mirror etc were quite enthralled with all the hacked information that filled acres of column inches, month in and month out. However the Milly Dowler intrusion was considered to be beyond the pale and to a lesser extent the McCanns, though personally I have no sympathy with the McCanns.
I seriously question what the CPS in England and Crown Office in Scotland define as being "in the public interest". As a member of the public, I see their priority to be prosecuting allegedly violent individuals, drug dealers, international terrorists, those believed to have seriously misused public office or accused of substantial misappropriation of other peoples' property and the like. Too many of these high profile trials are based on flimsy evidence and too much faux public outrage.
I have no sympathy at all for the celebs themselves. They pander to this and if the media were to suddenly stop reporting anything at all about them they would be distraught. But that doesn't change the fact that, given that there is a law in place,. the CPS should prosecute if it thinks it has a reasonable case.0 -
If a player is banned from international football for this sort of thing, how come he can still play for a club?Pulpstar said:
Sounds like a tip - £20 on.Peter_the_Punter said:
That's a great bet, PfP.peter_from_putney said:" It is communism hidden behind the smiling face of the British middle classes."
O/T Those punters who backed Suarez to leave Liverpool during the summer transfer window and who are now concerned about their chances in the light of the latest biting allegations against the player, have the opportunity to reverse their bet by taking Corals' 5/4 odds that he will NOT leave Liverpool by the close of this transfer window.
The odds are he faces a ban from International football, possibly a long one if FIFA decides the evidence of biting is clear enough. Either way, he suddenly becomes much more difficult to sell.
The problem of course is the sponsors. 888Poker are already regretting their decision to invest in his brand. Adidas and Sony will also be wondering whether they have bitten off more than he can chew this time. Any major club that might have been interested in this brilliant footballer are sure to be getting the thumbs down from their own sponsors. And that's without considering the distinct possibility that he does it again in a League match, and gets the kind of ban that puts him out until he reaches pensionable age.
Looks like Luis is going to be at Liverpool until that contract expires.
Does “leaving Liverpool to spend five years fishing” mean the bookies have to pay out?
0 -
They are still being considered (the buying of the royal register)CD13 said:
What happened to the bribing the police charges? Far more serious, I would have thought.0 -
Looks like Labour will go big on the lack of "developed vetting". I'm struggling to see how this would have made any difference as Coulson would hardly have changed his answer in the face of determined civil service questioning.
Just party politics from Labour, and people wonder why everyone is turned off politics...0 -
I agree with the sentiments in the last para. However, Cameron had warnings from several sides about Coulson (see e.g. the quotes from various quarters in http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2010/09/former-notw-coulson-cameron) and decided that having an attack dog at his side was worthwhile anyway. It's reasonable to criticise him for it. Doing it at PMQ will be tricky if the jury is still pondering about the other charges, though the issue would not be Coulson but Cameron.Charles said:
Cameron took a man at his word, presumably backed up by appropriate references and a vetting process, and gave him a second chance.
One of the cultural developments of the last decade or so that I'm most concerned about is that a single mistake is now expected to cloud someone's entire life (as well as the automatic view that resignation is the only suitable punishment for a mistake). Redemption has to remain a possibility.
That's a useful steer, isn't it? It shows significant Green support still there, though probably not enough, bearing in mind the low Euro turnout. For those who don't know the seat (I lived there briefly and know lots of people in the area), imagine a classic seaside town (which is why UKIP does OK) mixed with a huge number of hardcore Polly Toynbee fans.Financier said:EU14 results for Brighton & Hove
Labour Party 20,414
Green Party 18,586
Conservative Party 15,626
UK Independence Party (UKIP) 14,205
Liberal Democrats 4,025
My understanding from local friends is, as rcs's flamboyant post suggests, that any tactical Tory votes will go to Labour rather than Greens. The Labour candidate is also solidly environmental, as indeed is the Tory. However, Caroline Lucas does what she says on the tin - she is an energetic champion of green issues, and there are probably enough people in Brighton who want exactly that to make it close. There's something a bit unreasonable in the venom with which some here object to hardcore environmentalists having a single MP.
0 -
Would this come under the Parliamentary Privilege rule?AveryLP said:Sky News are bigging up PMQs as a gladiatorial contest where EdM will attempt to throw Dave to the lions over Coulson.
Unlikely, given the request made by Mr Justice Saunders to the media:
"I've become aware of the commenting that's gone on since the verdicts have been announced and I urge restraint on anyone from commenting further because the jury is still out considering verdicts in relation to Andy Coulson,"
And then later, after thanking the media for their co-operation, he urged politicians to show restraint in commenting on the trial because it is still ongoing.
It should be noted that the jury has been recalled for 11:00 am to continue their deliberations on the final four charges. It seems unlikely that the jury will have delivered their verdicts before PMQs kicks off at 12:00.
If Ed does lead on Coulson he would risk accused of considering himself 'above the law'.
With Coulson and phone hacking ruled out, what is left for Ed to ask? Suarez and the World Cup I expect. After all, backbiting is his specialist subject.0 -
There's no way that DV would have uncovered Mr Coulson's misdeeds. DV is a normal prerequisite for handling TS materiel, so it's a binary decision. I'd have thought someone in Mr Coulson's position would have required SC clearance at most.Millsy said:Looks like Labour will go big on the lack of "developed vetting". I'm struggling to see how this would have made any difference as Coulson would hardly have changed his answer in the face of determined civil service questioning.
0 -
Apart from the ongoing cases, surely there are more important issues facing the country for one of the few remaining PMQs before the summer recess.
I also expect some awful owl jokes today. Is Labour still claiming that the owl tweet was from hacking? In which case perhaps they should involve the police in this new hacking scandal.Millsy said:Looks like Labour will go big on the lack of "developed vetting". I'm struggling to see how this would have made any difference as Coulson would hardly have changed his answer in the face of determined civil service questioning.
Just party politics from Labour, and people wonder why everyone is turned off politics...0 -
I have always found Charles behaves in a civilised manner, even when he and I disagree. And on a couple of occasions he’s been extremely helpful.Charles said:
On what basis are you making a judgement on my ability?JWisemann said:Blimey Charles really is the definition of patronising toff educated well beyond ability.
0 -
Perhaps rather perversely if I had a ballot in Brighton Pavillion I'd vote for Lucas on the basis that a non racist party with their level of national support "deserved" a seat in the Commons despite Lucas being politically a spanner short of a tool box. She adds to the gaiety of the nation.
And after all, what's the point of another lobby fodder Labour MP ?
0 -
Of course the Eurocrats don't care, they are just hoping that Miliband will get in and everything EU related can carry on as normal. Personally I don't mind if we leave the EU, they will still want to trade with us anyway and we will probably just end up back in some sort of reformed single market. If Cameron is still PM after the next election then he EU either gives us most of what we want or wave good bye to a sensible counter-balance to the whacky French and southern Europeans.Sean_F said:
I agree with your analysis but would say "hope" in place of "fear".DavidL said:
The head of the Commission has always been the choice of the European Council, that is the heads of government and it has always been a consensual choice which meant at least the big boys got an effective veto of those they did not think they could work with. Juncker is the choice of the Parliament which cedes important power to that deeply flawed institution and has run an aggressive campaign against the British aggravating the difficulties in having a constructive relationship going forward.Millsy said:This was probably reported yesterday, but:
Voters back Cameron’s stance in fight against Juncker - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d6cc46ac-fbb0-11e3-9a03-00144feab7de.html
A Populus/FT poll found that...43 per cent of voters think that Mr Cameron was right to try to block Mr Juncker’s appointment to the top job in Brussels.
...49 per cent thought the prime minister was “strong” in taking his stand while only 22 per cent believed he would be seen as weak if – as expected – Mr Juncker’s appointment goes through anyway.
It is also noteworthy that both Clegg and Miliband have opposed the appointment as well. If Juncker is appointed in the face of such fierce and united UK opposition I fear it will be a major step towards the exit for this country. What are the chances from here that Juncker will facilitate the kind of changes that Cameron could sell in a referendum?
Cameron is rightly demonstrating the breakdown in consensus by demanding a formal vote on the matter. There is quite a lot at stake here but the impression given by some EU members is that they don't care.0 -
Some utterly bizarre comments in this thread today
* Caroline Green is not the "ultimate evil".
* Brighton & Hove with its two Tory MPs can hardly be described as "ultra left wing".
* Anyone who calls themselves "Financier", after the banking crash, ought to pause before they label other professions as "insulated from practicality and its effects"
* My favourite though are the Thatcherites condemning another party for pushing an ideology.0 -
The BBC reported on this section of the trial back in March.Slackbladder said:
They are still being considered (the buying of the royal register)CD13 said:
What happened to the bribing the police charges? Far more serious, I would have thought.
An extract from their report
Diana, Princess of Wales, gave a royal phone book to the News of the World in order to "take on" her estranged husband, the Old Bailey has heard.
Former NoW royal editor Clive Goodman told the phone-hacking trial he was sent the 1992 book because she was looking for "an ally" in the press.
She wanted to show the forces "ranged against her" in a "bitter situation" with the Prince of Wales, he said.
Mr Goodman is accused of paying police for royal phone books, which he denies.
Full article here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26557920
The BBC has no doubt been very selective in its reporting of the trial proceedings in respect of this charge and the jury will be considering more evidence when reaching their verdicts.
But the claimed intervention of our People's Princess will certainly have complicated the issue.
0 -
"Most of what we want". Cameron has already said that he won't try to renegotiate free movement of labour, which is the main thing the UK public wants repatriated. The biggest chunk of the EU budget is the Common Agricultural Policy, which even Cameron loyalists like Richard Nabavi say we have no hope of getting back. There's a similar story for the Common Fisheries Policy and Human Rights law.Millsy said:
Of course the Eurocrats don't care, they are just hoping that Miliband will get in and everything EU related can carry on as normal. Personally I don't mind if we leave the EU, they will still want to trade with us anyway and we will probably just end up back in some sort of reformed single market. If Cameron is still PM after the next election then he EU either gives us most of what we want or wave good bye to a sensible counter-balance to the whacky French and southern Europeans.Sean_F said:
I agree with your analysis but would say "hope" in place of "fear".DavidL said:
The head of the Commission has always been the choice of the European Council, that is the heads of government and it has always been a consensual choice which meant at least the big boys got an effective veto of those they did not think they could work with. Juncker is the choice of the Parliament which cedes important power to that deeply flawed institution and has run an aggressive campaign against the British aggravating the difficulties in having a constructive relationship going forward.Millsy said:This was probably reported yesterday, but:
Voters back Cameron’s stance in fight against Juncker - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d6cc46ac-fbb0-11e3-9a03-00144feab7de.html
A Populus/FT poll found that...43 per cent of voters think that Mr Cameron was right to try to block Mr Juncker’s appointment to the top job in Brussels.
...49 per cent thought the prime minister was “strong” in taking his stand while only 22 per cent believed he would be seen as weak if – as expected – Mr Juncker’s appointment goes through anyway.
It is also noteworthy that both Clegg and Miliband have opposed the appointment as well. If Juncker is appointed in the face of such fierce and united UK opposition I fear it will be a major step towards the exit for this country. What are the chances from here that Juncker will facilitate the kind of changes that Cameron could sell in a referendum?
Cameron is rightly demonstrating the breakdown in consensus by demanding a formal vote on the matter. There is quite a lot at stake here but the impression given by some EU members is that they don't care.0 -
Well I think you make a good point. Millions have been spent on this and the campaign to 'get' Brookes has clearly failed. There seems to be little interest in why the police closed up an enquiry into a labour supporting newspaper when labour were in power.Easterross said:On the whole phone hacking subject, my reading is that the general public, the people who buy the Sun, People and Mirror etc were quite enthralled with all the hacked information that filled acres of column inches, month in and month out. However the Milly Dowler intrusion was considered to be beyond the pale and to a lesser extent the McCanns, though personally I have no sympathy with the McCanns.
I seriously question what the CPS in England and Crown Office in Scotland define as being "in the public interest". As a member of the public, I see their priority to be prosecuting allegedly violent individuals, drug dealers, international terrorists, those believed to have seriously misused public office or accused of substantial misappropriation of other peoples' property and the like. Too many of these high profile trials are based on flimsy evidence and too much faux public outrage.
Coulson has come a cropper - but does anyone have faith in british Justice when we have already seen the police efforts to fit up a British Cabinet Minister?
For all the efforts to link Cameron to this, the fact that Brookes has been found not guilty is the key which distances Cameron from it all - its the police and CPS who have questions to answer. Indeed from what I read of the trial most 'evidence' semed to consist of gossip and tittle tattle.0 -
I'm not sure - hence though the bet is arbable I won't as it could fall through the middle.OldKingCole said:
If a player is banned from international football for this sort of thing, how come he can still play for a club?Pulpstar said:
Sounds like a tip - £20 on.Peter_the_Punter said:
That's a great bet, PfP.peter_from_putney said:" It is communism hidden behind the smiling face of the British middle classes."
O/T Those punters who backed Suarez to leave Liverpool during the summer transfer window and who are now concerned about their chances in the light of the latest biting allegations against the player, have the opportunity to reverse their bet by taking Corals' 5/4 odds that he will NOT leave Liverpool by the close of this transfer window.
The odds are he faces a ban from International football, possibly a long one if FIFA decides the evidence of biting is clear enough. Either way, he suddenly becomes much more difficult to sell.
The problem of course is the sponsors. 888Poker are already regretting their decision to invest in his brand. Adidas and Sony will also be wondering whether they have bitten off more than he can chew this time. Any major club that might have been interested in this brilliant footballer are sure to be getting the thumbs down from their own sponsors. And that's without considering the distinct possibility that he does it again in a League match, and gets the kind of ban that puts him out until he reaches pensionable age.
Looks like Luis is going to be at Liverpool until that contract expires.
Does “leaving Liverpool to spend five years fishing” mean the bookies have to pay out?
5-4 sounds ok though.0 -
@OldKIngCole
"If a player is banned from international football for this sort of thing, how come he can still play for a club?"
Tricky one, OKC, and I'm not sure what the precedents are.
It would seem unfair for Liverpool to be punished for something he did whilst on International duty. Otoh, should a serial biter be allowed to play any form of football?
I suspect FIFA will wriggle out of it by saying the evidence of biting is inconclusive and just give him a one match ban for an attempted head butt.
EDIT: I should think the bookies would pay out on extended gardening leave, as he would still be contracted to Liverpool.0 -
This is one for our very own M'Lud, but my expectation is that a judge cannot silence a politician speaking under parliamentary privilege.Blue_rog said:
Would this come under the Parliamentary Privilege rule?AveryLP said:Sky News are bigging up PMQs as a gladiatorial contest where EdM will attempt to throw Dave to the lions over Coulson.
Unlikely, given the request made by Mr Justice Saunders to the media:
"I've become aware of the commenting that's gone on since the verdicts have been announced and I urge restraint on anyone from commenting further because the jury is still out considering verdicts in relation to Andy Coulson,"
And then later, after thanking the media for their co-operation, he urged politicians to show restraint in commenting on the trial because it is still ongoing.
It should be noted that the jury has been recalled for 11:00 am to continue their deliberations on the final four charges. It seems unlikely that the jury will have delivered their verdicts before PMQs kicks off at 12:00.
If Ed does lead on Coulson he would risk accused of considering himself 'above the law'.
With Coulson and phone hacking ruled out, what is left for Ed to ask? Suarez and the World Cup I expect. After all, backbiting is his specialist subject.
But if a politician did speak and it was heard by one or more members of the jury and, in the view of the judge, what was said was likely to influence the jury's verdict, then the judge could stop the proceedings and order a retrial before the verdicts are given.
That, and an associated risk of appeal post delivery of verdicts, are the real risks of Ed shooting before thinking.
0 -
Apropos @Socrates. Those I've discussed it with don't have issue with the free movement of labour per se.In my family's case it's because we've all worked as ex-pats and it would be hypocritical.
They do object to benefits tourism and there is a good deal of concern about the unpredictability of large scale free movement (capital expenditure is hard enough to plan and manage as it is, without lots of people sloshing about Europe).
I hope that most EU states would care about the practicalities while defending the principle.0 -
Well if Miliband is sensible he will ask two questions about "Cameron's judgement" and then move on to more important things. We will see if he can resist...foxinsoxuk said:Apart from the ongoing cases, surely there are more important issues facing the country for one of the few remaining PMQs before the summer recess.
I also expect some awful owl jokes today. Is Labour still claiming that the owl tweet was from hacking? In which case perhaps they should involve the police in this new hacking scandal.Millsy said:Looks like Labour will go big on the lack of "developed vetting". I'm struggling to see how this would have made any difference as Coulson would hardly have changed his answer in the face of determined civil service questioning.
Just party politics from Labour, and people wonder why everyone is turned off politics...0 -
Well said, Young Jack.JackW said:Perhaps rather perversely if I had a ballot in Brighton Pavillion I'd vote for Lucas on the basis that a non racist party with their level of national support "deserved" a seat in the Commons despite Lucas being politically a spanner short of a tool box. She adds to the gaiety of the nation.
And after all, what's the point of another lobby fodder Labour MP ?
And if you were standing for Parliament, I'd vote for you for exactly the same reason, darling.0
