politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If Michael Gove is thinking of the leadership then he’s mil

SeanT said:

corporeal said:

SeanT said:

Ninoinoz said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Pretentious? moi? I nearly choked on my latte when I read this

Italian politician under fire after labelling English ‘pretentious pricks’

• Maurizio Gasparri tweeted after Italy beat England in Brazil
• Italian media call for vice-president of the Senate to resign

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/15/italian-politician-maurizio-gasparri-twitter-english

Even true bred Englishmen like yourself must admit he has a point.

England have failed to reach a major final in my lifetime. Italy? Seven.

But every two years it's 'This could be England's year.' 'Thirty (and counting) years of hurt.' 'Best English team to leave these shores.'

Gloating? Io?

But he wasn't tweeting about England's football boasting, he was having a rather revealing go at the English themselves.

It is amazing how many countries have an inferiority complex vis a vis the English. I guess this is because we had the world's biggest empire ever, and our language is now the global language, and our Anglo-American culture is hegemonic blah de blah.

This irritates the non-English, subconsciously, to a degree that is easily underestimated.

The delicious irony is that this inferiority complex (which would astonish most self effacing pessimistic English people themselves) is revealed most overtly when the world beats us at football - a sport invented and codified by... the English.

Eh, it's not like the English don't tweet about national stereotypes when we're playing another country at something.

(Not that the other stuff is wrong, but you're hanging much to much on that tweet).

It's true though: many, many races and countries have an inferiority complex about the English. More than we realise.

I'm sure the supremacy of the English language is crucial.

Imagine if, whenever and wherever you went abroad, and you wanted the best chance of being understood, you had to speak... French. And imagine that your kids absolutely HAD to learn French to have a chance in a French-oriented business world, dominated by a French speaking Internet and French commercial values.

You'd develop an irritability and an inferiority complex towards French people and French culture - people, as you see it, unfairly gifted this unnatural advantage, from birth, and thus cursed by an intrinsic arrogance.

Ditto if it was the Italians, Germans, Koreans or Azerbaijanis, whose language and culture had prevailed, globally.

[NB I am working towards a Telegraph blog here, consider this a work in progress]

A lot of English people have the same inferiority complex about the English as well

SeanT said:

corporeal said:

SeanT said:

Ninoinoz said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Pretentious? moi? I nearly choked on my latte when I read this

Italian politician under fire after labelling English ‘pretentious pricks’

• Maurizio Gasparri tweeted after Italy beat England in Brazil
• Italian media call for vice-president of the Senate to resign

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/15/italian-politician-maurizio-gasparri-twitter-english

Even true bred Englishmen like yourself must admit he has a point.

England have failed to reach a major final in my lifetime. Italy? Seven.

But every two years it's 'This could be England's year.' 'Thirty (and counting) years of hurt.' 'Best English team to leave these shores.'

Gloating? Io?

But he wasn't tweeting about England's football boasting, he was having a rather revealing go at the English themselves.

It is amazing how many countries have an inferiority complex vis a vis the English. I guess this is because we had the world's biggest empire ever, and our language is now the global language, and our Anglo-American culture is hegemonic blah de blah.

This irritates the non-English, subconsciously, to a degree that is easily underestimated.

The delicious irony is that this inferiority complex (which would astonish most self effacing pessimistic English people themselves) is revealed most overtly when the world beats us at football - a sport invented and codified by... the English.

Eh, it's not like the English don't tweet about national stereotypes when we're playing another country at something.

(Not that the other stuff is wrong, but you're hanging much to much on that tweet).

It's true though: many, many races and countries have an inferiority complex about the English. More than we realise.

I'm sure the supremacy of the English language is crucial.

Imagine if, whenever and wherever you went abroad, and you wanted the best chance of being understood, you had to speak... French. And imagine that your kids absolutely HAD to learn French to have a chance in a French-oriented business world, dominated by a French speaking Internet and French commercial values.

You'd develop an irritability and an inferiority complex towards French people and French culture - people, as you see it, unfairly gifted this unnatural advantage, from birth, and thus cursed by an intrinsic arrogance.

Ditto if it was the Italians, Germans, Koreans or Azerbaijanis, whose language and culture had prevailed, globally.

[NB I am working towards a Telegraph blog here, consider this a work in progress]

Why imagine? It happened for a long time. Hence 'lingua franca'.

Compare British complexes about the USA.

The reason English is the global language is surely more to do with America than England, no?

@SeanT

People all over the world stereotype the English as arrogant *rseholes, attached to a past that no longer exists except in some notional dream of "Britannia"
Same with your football commentators, but even they are learning.
Deal with it, because no one else really cares.

I think that you are wrong there, at least in Leics we have a large number of female post war Poles. They have interesting tales of deportation to Siberia followed by exit to Iran and British East Africa before resettlement in the camp at Melton Mowbray. It was not until the 1950's that they realized return to a free Poland was not going to be possible.

With the Ugandan Asians there was certainly little chance of return, but the Kenyan, Tanzanian, Malawian and Zambian Asians can and do go backwards and forwards. These come from both Hindu and Muslim communities, but are noticeably more integrated. In part this is because they are middle class, in part because they could migrate to Britain as British Imperialists themselves in the sixties and seventies, but I think that most importantly they were used to living as a minority in another country.

Education and cultural affinity in advance of migration, makes integration much quicker and more complete afterwards.

Ninoinoz said:

foxinsoxuk said:

I think integration is not just about numbers, but also to how close culturally the migrants are to existing British values. This is a function of education as well as background culture so explains why Ugandan Asians and the post war Polish forces settled and integrated so well.

The Poles after WWII and the Ugandan Asians knew they weren't going back. Ever.

Also the Poles were overwhelming masculine i.e.soldiers, airmen, etc. and thus we forced to marry out, unlike those arriving more recently.

Sean, whenever you come to a decision on a topic you do so with remarkable certainty of vision and an impressive avoidance of nuance.

John Rentoul on Independent Minds - Home truths: What George Osborne can't say about house prices...

"You want politicians to tell the truth? Well, listen to George Osborne. On Thursday night the Chancellor said: "The British people want our homes to go up in value, but also remain affordable; and we want more homes built, just not next to us." There, in 130 characters, is The Truth. We want incompatible things and, as Osborne went on to say, "You can see why no one has managed yet to solve the problems of Britain's housing market."

He made it as clear as he dared that there is a limit to what the Government can do – indeed, a limit to what people will let the Government do. This is one of those questions on which the gap between simple solutions and complex problems is at its widest. Usually, whenever the subject of house prices comes up, the response is to say, "Build more houses".

As if on cue, Ed Balls, the Shadow Chancellor, responded to Osborne's speech before he had even delivered it: "George Osborne is still failing to tackle the root cause of the housing crisis, which is that we are not building enough homes to match rising demand." Balls repeated Labour's promise of "getting at least 200,000 new homes built a year"."

@SeanT

To be precise Sean, "American" dominates the world of business, "English" has only an accidental connection these days.

Socrates said:

You could even say that the USA embraced more of the British Whig tradition than the home island did. They took the development of British Whig thought to their logical conclusion in constitutional republicanism, with a clearly defined bill of rights. We had a conservative reaction to the French Revolution and we've been celebrating the monarchy ever since.

The United Kingdom is a republic within the traditional meaning of the term.

Lost money with Honduras, don't know whether to risk another £10 with Bosnia.

AndyJS said:

BBC interview three England fans in Rio. Two of them have Scottish accents. Interesting.

The young lad had a Portugal top on.

@Socrates

Finance may speak English, but they shout in dollars. (for the moment at least)

@SeanT

You can prove anything you like Sean, the world will just smile politely and carry on.

This is Messi's 3rd World cup and he's only scored 1 goal. Argentina should drop him.

Credit to the French for their 3-0 against Honduras. Second goal was definitely over the line. If only England could have benefitted from the technology in 2010!

So the Americans are going to bomb Iraq again according to John Simpson. Can't see it achieving much myself.

This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

Bosnia are 10/1 against Argentina. This Argentina team can't be particularly good in that case.

Smarmeron said:

@Socrates

Finance may speak English, but they shout in dollars. (for the moment at least)

Yes, and they do it in London, which is the biggest FX market in the world.

isam said:

This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.

ToryJim said:

isam said:

This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.

Rule No1. on any middle east crisis:
The people in favour of invading Iraq in 2003 are NOT to be listened to.

Pulpstar said:

ToryJim said:

AndyJS said:

What the hell's going on with the goal line technology?

It's a joke. You bring in technology to avoid controversy and cause even more.

By definition a decision where goal line technology is used to rule a goal in or out will be a very close one. I've had a good look at the goal and the ball looks like it went over the line. It's worked.

Oh absolutely but just amusing that it's done in such a way to keep the controversy.

Smarmeron said:

@SeanT

People all over the world stereotype the English as arrogant *rseholes, attached to a past that no longer exists except in some notional dream of "Britannia"

My word, do they? Certainly no other nationalities have attachments to their past and their cultures as somehow being greater or more righteous than any others, no sir, not at all.

Eh, I guess there's something in it.

Speedy said:

ToryJim said:

isam said:

This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.

Rule No1. on any middle east crisis:
The people in favour of invading Iraq in 2003 are NOT to be listened to.

That's a very dangerous way of thinking.

isam said:

ToryJim said:

isam said:

This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.

I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness

An interesting principle, compare Churchill etc.

corporeal said:

isam said:

ToryJim said:

isam said:

This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.

I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness

An interesting principle, compare Churchill etc.

Dont really get that

isam said:

ToryJim said:

isam said:

This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.

I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness

Read his piece, he's broadly right. You might not like that but that's unfortunate. In my view the problems now developing in Iraq weren't caused by going in to Iraq but not staying in or rather getting out too soon.

Look he believes he is correct so he is perfectly entitled to continue to put his case. Do you want him to leave the stage because you don't like that he's right and it's easier to believe he is wrong if he's silent?

I don't agree with Tony Blair on much but on this he makes a degree of sense.

@Socrates

In the end, we are where we are. Should we try to help fix it, or ignore it?

ToryJim said:

isam said:

ToryJim said:

isam said:

This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.

I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness

Read his piece, he's broadly right. You might not like that but that's unfortunate. In my view the problems now developing in Iraq weren't caused by going in to Iraq but not staying in or rather getting out too soon.

Look he believes he is correct so he is perfectly entitled to continue to put his case. Do you want him to leave the stage because you don't like that he's right and it's easier to believe he is wrong if he's silent?

I don't agree with Tony Blair on much but on this he makes a degree of sense.

I dont think he even believes what he says, he is like any other vain, self obsessed slimeball, trying to lie his way out of his mistakes rather than take responsibilty

@SeanT‌
It really wasn't.

Smarmeron said:

@Speedy

Winning the war, and losing the peace is common in war.
"It comes with the territory" as they say.

Heeding the advice of proven inconpetent and dangerous people is always the wrong thing to do, if you listen to Blair then we have to listen to Donald Rumsfeld.

So here are two fun videos of him in mess o potamia:

Rumsfeld:" first the have gone in a transition from the provisional authority to a transition to a provisional government to a transition to a transitional government to a transition to the permanate government"

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/8jxwta/mess-o-potamia---rumsfeld-doublespeak

Rumsfeld: "there are several ways to look at it one way is to look at it numeracally, there are other ways to see it"

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/mrh9vp/mess-o-potamia---abstract-assessment

@Life_ina_market_town

You could see what was going to happen when the "coalition" didn't put into place an enforceable plan for peace in Palestine/Israel even in the form of sanctions.
Not addressing the source, but tinkering around the edges, is way to common and convenient in politics.

Nice, I can go to sleep early, with my winnings.

MrJones said:

Speedy said:

corporeal said:

isam said:

ToryJim said:

isam said:

This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.

I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness

An interesting principle, compare Churchill etc.

Well Churchill wasn't a strategic genius, the original plan was to land on Alexandreta in the levant, not on a cliffside a thousand miles away and he repeated that mistake in the invasion of Italy.
Instead of invading in the northern coasts of the peninsula and cut off southern and central Italy from the rest he invaded in the southern mountainous tip that had no roads so that it took the allies till May 1945 to reach Milan.

Churchill was a great political leader, but he was bad in military affairs.

The basic ideas were good imo (as shown by the guy in Korea). The details sucked.

In Korea they did it properly, they landed hundreds of miles behind the frontlines and they cut off the North Korean army in the south.
That is what they should have did in Italy, instead of landing in Calabria after Sicily, they should have landed in Tuscany and cut off the axis army in the south.

If Obama bombs Iraq, what happens to his Nobel Peace Prize?

oldnat said:

GIN1138 said:

RodCrosby said:

Yanks are "reviewing staffing requirements" at Baghdad embassy.

i.e. evacuating....

I can't imagine it would top of the list's for where diplomat's want to be sent to LOL!

Actually, it can be popular. I know someone in the US Foreign Service who jumped at the chance of a Baghdad posting. Serving a tour of duty in such a place not only gives kudos in the service, but virtually guarantees cushy postings thereafter.

Not always cushy, oldnat.

The last four of our men in Baghdad have travelled as follows

Dominic Asquith - Iraq to Egypt (Arab Spring at end) to Libya (post Gadaffi)
Christopher Prentice - Iraq to Italy (the exception)
John Jenkins - Syria to Iraq to Libya to Saudi Arabia
Michael Aron - Kuwait to Iraq to Libya

Their rewards:
Asquith - KCMG
Prentice - CMG (still serving in Italy)
Jenkins - KCMG
Aron - no gongs as yet (see incident in Kuwait)

And of course Asquith's US counterpart in Libya, Christopher Stevens, returned from Benghazi in a box.

Just stuck my £5 free bet from the good value FGS loser R Sterling @ 14-1 on Bosnia @ 25-1.

Pulpstar said:

Jesus a tea, with Messi, Aguero and Zabaletta up front should be able to do better than this.

Complete tosh so far from Argentina.

It's a downsized version of Brazil vs Croatia, literally both countries are one step bellow.

O/T: You know how you can switch on Radio 4 at random at get drawn into a discussion about the life of Jamaican dockers in 1900 or something else you never gave a thought? This article is a bit like that - at least it was for me. Fascinating.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/jun/14/my-children-grew-up-in-commune

AveryLP said:

oldnat said:

GIN1138 said:

RodCrosby said:

Yanks are "reviewing staffing requirements" at Baghdad embassy.

i.e. evacuating....

I can't imagine it would top of the list's for where diplomat's want to be sent to LOL!

Actually, it can be popular. I know someone in the US Foreign Service who jumped at the chance of a Baghdad posting. Serving a tour of duty in such a place not only gives kudos in the service, but virtually guarantees cushy postings thereafter.

Not always cushy, oldnat.

The last four of our men in Baghdad have travelled as follows

Dominic Asquith - Iraq to Egypt (Arab Spring at end) to Libya (post Gadaffi)
Christopher Prentice - Iraq to Italy (the exception)
John Jenkins - Syria to Iraq to Libya to Saudi Arabia
Michael Aron - Kuwait to Iraq to Libya

Their rewards:
Asquith - KCMG
Prentice - CMG (still serving in Italy)
Jenkins - KCMG
Aron - no gongs as yet (see incident in Kuwait)

And of course Asquith's US counterpart in Libya, Christopher Stevens, returned from Benghazi in a box.

Well, they could have lied to him, of course. Nah. The US Government would never tell lies!

Speedy said:

AveryLP said:

oldnat said:

GIN1138 said:

RodCrosby said:

Yanks are "reviewing staffing requirements" at Baghdad embassy.

i.e. evacuating....

I can't imagine it would top of the list's for where diplomat's want to be sent to LOL!

Actually, it can be popular. I know someone in the US Foreign Service who jumped at the chance of a Baghdad posting. Serving a tour of duty in such a place not only gives kudos in the service, but virtually guarantees cushy postings thereafter.

Not always cushy, oldnat.

The last four of our men in Baghdad have travelled as follows

Dominic Asquith - Iraq to Egypt (Arab Spring at end) to Libya (post Gadaffi)
Christopher Prentice - Iraq to Italy (the exception)
John Jenkins - Syria to Iraq to Libya to Saudi Arabia
Michael Aron - Kuwait to Iraq to Libya

Their rewards:
Asquith - KCMG
Prentice - CMG (still serving in Italy)
Jenkins - KCMG
Aron - no gongs as yet (see incident in Kuwait)

And of course Asquith's US counterpart in Libya, Christopher Stevens, returned from Benghazi in a box.

Lesson here, when you start getting posts to the middle east, you get stuck in the middle east.

Not really. Most of the above are Middle Eastern specialists who made their choices very early on in their careers. They will have been let out of the area for only one or two postings (except for being posted back home in London for short periods).

RodCrosby said:

23.19 Between 50 and 100 US Marines and US Army personnel have arrived at the US Embassy in Baghdad, CNN reports.
22.27 The Pentagon has issued a statement about the security boost and evacuation at the US Embassy in Baghdad. Staff will be evacuated using commercial, charter and State Department aircraft. The US military also has "airlift assets at the ready" should they be needed, Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said.

Look at the last briefing from the pentagon and you'll see a defeated worried Admiral Kirby.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?319966-2/defense-department-briefing