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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If Michael Gove is thinking of the leadership then he’s mil

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  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    SeanT said:

    corporeal said:

    SeanT said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Pretentious? moi? I nearly choked on my latte when I read this

    Italian politician under fire after labelling English ‘pretentious pricks’

    • Maurizio Gasparri tweeted after Italy beat England in Brazil
    • Italian media call for vice-president of the Senate to resign

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/15/italian-politician-maurizio-gasparri-twitter-english

    Even true bred Englishmen like yourself must admit he has a point.

    England have failed to reach a major final in my lifetime. Italy? Seven.

    But every two years it's 'This could be England's year.' 'Thirty (and counting) years of hurt.' 'Best English team to leave these shores.'

    Gloating? Io?
    But he wasn't tweeting about England's football boasting, he was having a rather revealing go at the English themselves.

    It is amazing how many countries have an inferiority complex vis a vis the English. I guess this is because we had the world's biggest empire ever, and our language is now the global language, and our Anglo-American culture is hegemonic blah de blah.

    This irritates the non-English, subconsciously, to a degree that is easily underestimated.

    The delicious irony is that this inferiority complex (which would astonish most self effacing pessimistic English people themselves) is revealed most overtly when the world beats us at football - a sport invented and codified by... the English.
    Eh, it's not like the English don't tweet about national stereotypes when we're playing another country at something.

    (Not that the other stuff is wrong, but you're hanging much to much on that tweet).
    It's true though: many, many races and countries have an inferiority complex about the English. More than we realise.

    I'm sure the supremacy of the English language is crucial.

    Imagine if, whenever and wherever you went abroad, and you wanted the best chance of being understood, you had to speak... French. And imagine that your kids absolutely HAD to learn French to have a chance in a French-oriented business world, dominated by a French speaking Internet and French commercial values.

    You'd develop an irritability and an inferiority complex towards French people and French culture - people, as you see it, unfairly gifted this unnatural advantage, from birth, and thus cursed by an intrinsic arrogance.

    Ditto if it was the Italians, Germans, Koreans or Azerbaijanis, whose language and culture had prevailed, globally.

    [NB I am working towards a Telegraph blog here, consider this a work in progress]


    A lot of English people have the same inferiority complex about the English as well

  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    edited June 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    I think Ninoiz is following Hitler's line that Judaism is a race, not a religion.

    A serious question, Smithson Jr. Can you read?

    You seem unable to spell my username correctly or to have read David Herdson's very average article yesterday.

    David Herdson

    In some ways, that’s unfair. Apart from the point about other communities, a culture is as much about secular habits as religious teaching. However, when culture and religion become deeply intertwined, trying to separate them is both a fruitless and pointless task: the habit reinforces the belief and vice-versa. This becomes really tricky territory because it then follows that an attack on one (behaviour) is easily seen and/or represented by those criticised as an attack on the other (their religion).
    A bit like being Italian and Roman Catholic, I suppose.

    A cheap shot to compare my views to Hitler, BTW.

    Reducio ad Hitlerum, perhaps?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Useless from Honduras.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    SeanT said:

    corporeal said:

    SeanT said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Pretentious? moi? I nearly choked on my latte when I read this

    Italian politician under fire after labelling English ‘pretentious pricks’

    • Maurizio Gasparri tweeted after Italy beat England in Brazil
    • Italian media call for vice-president of the Senate to resign

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/15/italian-politician-maurizio-gasparri-twitter-english

    Even true bred Englishmen like yourself must admit he has a point.

    England have failed to reach a major final in my lifetime. Italy? Seven.

    But every two years it's 'This could be England's year.' 'Thirty (and counting) years of hurt.' 'Best English team to leave these shores.'

    Gloating? Io?
    But he wasn't tweeting about England's football boasting, he was having a rather revealing go at the English themselves.

    It is amazing how many countries have an inferiority complex vis a vis the English. I guess this is because we had the world's biggest empire ever, and our language is now the global language, and our Anglo-American culture is hegemonic blah de blah.

    This irritates the non-English, subconsciously, to a degree that is easily underestimated.

    The delicious irony is that this inferiority complex (which would astonish most self effacing pessimistic English people themselves) is revealed most overtly when the world beats us at football - a sport invented and codified by... the English.
    Eh, it's not like the English don't tweet about national stereotypes when we're playing another country at something.

    (Not that the other stuff is wrong, but you're hanging much to much on that tweet).
    It's true though: many, many races and countries have an inferiority complex about the English. More than we realise.

    I'm sure the supremacy of the English language is crucial.

    Imagine if, whenever and wherever you went abroad, and you wanted the best chance of being understood, you had to speak... French. And imagine that your kids absolutely HAD to learn French to have a chance in a French-oriented business world, dominated by a French speaking Internet and French commercial values.

    You'd develop an irritability and an inferiority complex towards French people and French culture - people, as you see it, unfairly gifted this unnatural advantage, from birth, and thus cursed by an intrinsic arrogance.

    Ditto if it was the Italians, Germans, Koreans or Azerbaijanis, whose language and culture had prevailed, globally.

    [NB I am working towards a Telegraph blog here, consider this a work in progress]


    Why imagine? It happened for a long time. Hence 'lingua franca'.

    Compare British complexes about the USA.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited June 2014
    U.S.A. Getting ready for the big vamoos from Bagdad as Iran tightens it's grip on Bagdad and the south of the country. ISIS ready to take on the shia whether Iraqi or Irani.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/16/world/middleeast/embassy.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=0

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 20m
    Major-General Qassem Suleimani, leader of Iran’s elite Quds force, is now running operations, say Iraqi officials.

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 19m
    Suleimani in Baghdad with 67 advisers + weapons, rockets, machine guns and ammunition.

    As I wrote last night, America in the shape of Obama, chickening out.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The reason English is the global language is surely more to do with America than England, no?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    AndyJS said:

    The reason English is the global language is surely more to do with America than England, no?

    Why does America speak English though?

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @SeanT

    People all over the world stereotype the English as arrogant *rseholes, attached to a past that no longer exists except in some notional dream of "Britannia"
    Same with your football commentators, but even they are learning.
    Deal with it, because no one else really cares.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    I think integration is not just about numbers, but also to how close culturally the migrants are to existing British values. This is a function of education as well as background culture so explains why Ugandan Asians and the post war Polish forces settled and integrated so well.

    I suspect that in a generation most of our EU migrants will be Brits with curious names, while we still have Trojan horse style issues in Birmingham.

    isam said:

    British Values

    To try and intstill them in anyone by any government measure is absolutely ridiculous. There can be no definition of them, whoever tries to do so fails, it is pointless.

    The only way that immigrants learn British values is to be allowed in to the country in small enough numbers that would make failure to integrate almost impossible unless they were trying deliberately not to do so.

    Mass immigration means integration is almost impossible, you cant have both mass immigration and integration.

    Another example of "progressive" politicians not thinking a policy through, going ahead with an idealistic plan despite warnings that it is flawed, making a huge mess, and finding it impossible to clean up.

    Blair on the Middle East crisis today is an almost perfect example

    The research by Trevor Philipps earlier showed that about a sixth of white British Londoners voted for Labour, while two thirds of ethnic minority voters went Labour. With numbers like that, you can tell Labour don't have an interest in them integrating. It explains why they did nothing about it for 13 years.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I think that you are wrong there, at least in Leics we have a large number of female post war Poles. They have interesting tales of deportation to Siberia followed by exit to Iran and British East Africa before resettlement in the camp at Melton Mowbray. It was not until the 1950's that they realized return to a free Poland was not going to be possible.

    With the Ugandan Asians there was certainly little chance of return, but the Kenyan, Tanzanian, Malawian and Zambian Asians can and do go backwards and forwards. These come from both Hindu and Muslim communities, but are noticeably more integrated. In part this is because they are middle class, in part because they could migrate to Britain as British Imperialists themselves in the sixties and seventies, but I think that most importantly they were used to living as a minority in another country.

    Education and cultural affinity in advance of migration, makes integration much quicker and more complete afterwards.

    Ninoinoz said:

    I think integration is not just about numbers, but also to how close culturally the migrants are to existing British values. This is a function of education as well as background culture so explains why Ugandan Asians and the post war Polish forces settled and integrated so well.

    The Poles after WWII and the Ugandan Asians knew they weren't going back. Ever.

    Also the Poles were overwhelming masculine i.e.soldiers, airmen, etc. and thus we forced to marry out, unlike those arriving more recently.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Ninoinoz said:

    Pretentious? moi? I nearly choked on my latte when I read this

    Italian politician under fire after labelling English ‘pretentious pricks’

    • Maurizio Gasparri tweeted after Italy beat England in Brazil
    • Italian media call for vice-president of the Senate to resign

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/15/italian-politician-maurizio-gasparri-twitter-english

    Even true bred Englishmen like yourself must admit he has a point.

    England have failed to reach a major final in my lifetime. Italy? Seven.

    But every two years it's 'This could be England's year.' 'Thirty (and counting) years of hurt.' 'Best English team to leave these shores.'

    Gloating? Io?
    Who has said that this time? I don't know what nationality you are, but you're clearly just buying into hearsay. Every single England fan I know has said we have a weak team this year.

    It's a sad case when you have such a grievance mentality you actually have to invent grievances that no longer exist to justify them.

    If this Italian politician has a problem, it's because the UK is becoming economically successful again, while Italy is a basket case that has to get its budgets approved by Germany.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Sean, whenever you come to a decision on a topic you do so with remarkable certainty of vision and an impressive avoidance of nuance.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    I think the goal line technology clearly showed that initially SeanT didn't score but then had the good fortune of a decent deflection and then enjoyed an own goal.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    John Rentoul on Independent Minds - Home truths: What George Osborne can't say about house prices...

    "You want politicians to tell the truth? Well, listen to George Osborne. On Thursday night the Chancellor said: "The British people want our homes to go up in value, but also remain affordable; and we want more homes built, just not next to us." There, in 130 characters, is The Truth. We want incompatible things and, as Osborne went on to say, "You can see why no one has managed yet to solve the problems of Britain's housing market."

    He made it as clear as he dared that there is a limit to what the Government can do – indeed, a limit to what people will let the Government do. This is one of those questions on which the gap between simple solutions and complex problems is at its widest. Usually, whenever the subject of house prices comes up, the response is to say, "Build more houses".

    As if on cue, Ed Balls, the Shadow Chancellor, responded to Osborne's speech before he had even delivered it: "George Osborne is still failing to tackle the root cause of the housing crisis, which is that we are not building enough homes to match rising demand." Balls repeated Labour's promise of "getting at least 200,000 new homes built a year"."
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    The reason English is the global language is surely more to do with America than England, no?

    Er, no. India, Africa, Canada, Australia, South Africa, etc.

    Also America succeeded BECAUSE it adopted English liberal democratic Protesant values, indeed it was imbued with them. English liberty is in America's DNA.

    Brazil is an enormous country with great potential - like the USA - but Portuguese is a minor global tongue. Because.
    You could even say that the USA embraced more of the British Whig tradition than the home island did. They took the development of British Whig thought to their logical conclusion in constitutional republicanism, with a clearly defined bill of rights. We had a conservative reaction to the French Revolution and we've been celebrating the monarchy ever since.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @SeanT

    To be precise Sean, "American" dominates the world of business, "English" has only an accidental connection these days.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,592
    ToryJim said:

    AndyJS said:

    What the hell's going on with the goal line technology?

    It's a joke. You bring in technology to avoid controversy and cause even more.
    Did you see how the goal-line technology awarded England a "goal" yesterday when the ball entered the "space" of the goal but had actually hit the side netting?
  • Socrates said:

    You could even say that the USA embraced more of the British Whig tradition than the home island did. They took the development of British Whig thought to their logical conclusion in constitutional republicanism, with a clearly defined bill of rights. We had a conservative reaction to the French Revolution and we've been celebrating the monarchy ever since.

    The United Kingdom is a republic within the traditional meaning of the term.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @SeanT
    No, just stating a fact. For most of the world Britain is like "Brigadoon", but with a far more pliable banking system.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Lost money with Honduras, don't know whether to risk another £10 with Bosnia.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2014
    BBC interview three England fans in Rio. Two of them have Scottish accents. Interesting.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited June 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @SeanT

    To be precise Sean, "American" dominates the world of business, "English" has only an accidental connection these days.

    The difference between standard American English and standard British English is no larger than that of the vernacular spoken in Newcastle and Cornwall. It makes no sense to claim they are different languages.

    Anyway, a great many of the world's business hubs speak British English - Hong Kong, Singapore, Sydney, Mumbai, Johannesburg, Lagos, Toronto - so you'd be wrong anyway.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @AndyJS

    Let loose the cybernats of war!
  • Eh_ehm_a_ehEh_ehm_a_eh Posts: 552
    AndyJS said:

    BBC interview three England fans in Rio. Two of them have Scottish accents. Interesting.

    The young lad had a Portugal top on.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    You could even say that the USA embraced more of the British Whig tradition than the home island did. They took the development of British Whig thought to their logical conclusion in constitutional republicanism, with a clearly defined bill of rights. We had a conservative reaction to the French Revolution and we've been celebrating the monarchy ever since.

    The United Kingdom is a republic within the traditional meaning of the term.
    But we never formalised it. The old symbols of hierarchy, birthright and subjection remain.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Socrates

    Finance may speak English, but they shout in dollars. (for the moment at least)
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited June 2014
    Yanks are "reviewing staffing requirements" at Baghdad embassy.

    i.e. evacuating....
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @SeanT

    You can prove anything you like Sean, the world will just smile politely and carry on.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    English is the best language in the world! (remember, my mother('s) tongue isn't English!)
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    This is Messi's 3rd World cup and he's only scored 1 goal. Argentina should drop him.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    Socrates said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Pretentious? moi? I nearly choked on my latte when I read this

    Italian politician under fire after labelling English ‘pretentious pricks’

    • Maurizio Gasparri tweeted after Italy beat England in Brazil
    • Italian media call for vice-president of the Senate to resign

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/15/italian-politician-maurizio-gasparri-twitter-english

    Even true bred Englishmen like yourself must admit he has a point.

    England have failed to reach a major final in my lifetime. Italy? Seven.

    But every two years it's 'This could be England's year.' 'Thirty (and counting) years of hurt.' 'Best English team to leave these shores.'

    Gloating? Io?
    Who has said that this time? I don't know what nationality you are,
    Ninoinoz is apparently Italian.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    Credit to the French for their 3-0 against Honduras. Second goal was definitely over the line. If only England could have benefitted from the technology in 2010!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    RodCrosby said:

    Yanks are "reviewing staffing requirements" at Baghdad embassy.

    i.e. evacuating....

    I can't imagine it would top of the list's for where diplomat's want to be sent to LOL!

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    So the Americans are going to bomb Iraq again according to John Simpson. Can't see it achieving much myself.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    RodCrosby said:

    Yanks are "reviewing staffing requirements" at Baghdad embassy.

    i.e. evacuating....

    They are evacuating some staff.
    ISIS has restarted its offensive tomight, trying to cut the Kurds in two along the Syrian-Iraqi border and using Abrams tanks on the southern front, also this:

    Al Arabiya English @AlArabiya_Eng · 19m
    #BreakingNews A tribal spokesman say rebels have started advancing toward Baghdad
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    I'm taking it Bosnia aren't up to much?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Bosnia are 10/1 against Argentina. This Argentina team can't be particularly good in that case.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    ToryJim said:

    AndyJS said:

    What the hell's going on with the goal line technology?

    It's a joke. You bring in technology to avoid controversy and cause even more.
    By definition a decision where goal line technology is used to rule a goal in or out will be a very close one. I've had a good look at the goal and the ball looks like it went over the line. It's worked.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,054
    Smarmeron said:

    @Socrates

    Finance may speak English, but they shout in dollars. (for the moment at least)

    Yes, and they do it in London, which is the biggest FX market in the world.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    ISIS has now more american Abrams tanks than Australia.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    corporeal said:

    This is Messi's 3rd World cup and he's only scored 1 goal. Argentina should drop him.

    for an unspecified "younger talent"?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    Rule No1. on any middle east crisis:
    The people in favour of invading Iraq in 2003 are NOT to be listened to.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Credit to the French for their 3-0 against Honduras. Second goal was definitely over the line. If only England could have benefitted from the technology in 2010!

    I think we should take 1966 and be grateful...
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Pulpstar said:

    ToryJim said:

    AndyJS said:

    What the hell's going on with the goal line technology?

    It's a joke. You bring in technology to avoid controversy and cause even more.
    By definition a decision where goal line technology is used to rule a goal in or out will be a very close one. I've had a good look at the goal and the ball looks like it went over the line. It's worked.
    Oh absolutely but just amusing that it's done in such a way to keep the controversy.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    ToryJim said:

    I'm taking it Bosnia aren't up to much?

    They're good at attacking. It's just defending they have trouble with.

    Fair shout for 2nd in the group.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Smarmeron said:

    @SeanT

    People all over the world stereotype the English as arrogant *rseholes, attached to a past that no longer exists except in some notional dream of "Britannia"

    My word, do they? Certainly no other nationalities have attachments to their past and their cultures as somehow being greater or more righteous than any others, no sir, not at all.

    Eh, I guess there's something in it.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

    If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Speedy said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    Rule No1. on any middle east crisis:
    The people in favour of invading Iraq in 2003 are NOT to be listened to.
    That's a very dangerous way of thinking.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    AndyJS said:

    Bosnia are 10/1 against Argentina. This Argentina team can't be particularly good in that case.

    I hope that Argentina wins, I won my bet with France, all I need is for Argentina to win and I will have another modest profitable night.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Speedy said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    Rule No1. on any middle east crisis:
    The people in favour of invading Iraq in 2003 are NOT to be listened to.
    Correct. A child could have forecast the outcome.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Speedy

    What about the war in 1990? It left Iraq as a failed state controlled only by a "no fly" zone and sanctions that were hurting the population but not those in power?
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

    If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness
    An interesting principle, compare Churchill etc.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited June 2014
    ToryJim said:

    Speedy said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    Rule No1. on any middle east crisis:
    The people in favour of invading Iraq in 2003 are NOT to be listened to.
    That's a very dangerous way of thinking.
    I can give you a whole collection of mess'o potamia videos to prove it, so lets start the fun with this one:

    Condi Rice in London: "i'm sure we made tactical errors, thousands of them i'm sure"
    http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/c8h9uf/mess-o-potamia---rice-a-rongi
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

    If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness
    An interesting principle, compare Churchill etc.
    Dont really get that
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Smarmeron said:

    @Speedy

    What about the war in 1990? It left Iraq as a failed state controlled only by a "no fly" zone and sanctions that were hurting the population but not those in power?

    Iraq was a contained state after 1990, it was not a failed state by any sensible meaning of the word. Failed states are places like Afghanistan and Somalia.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

    If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness
    Read his piece, he's broadly right. You might not like that but that's unfortunate. In my view the problems now developing in Iraq weren't caused by going in to Iraq but not staying in or rather getting out too soon.

    Look he believes he is correct so he is perfectly entitled to continue to put his case. Do you want him to leave the stage because you don't like that he's right and it's easier to believe he is wrong if he's silent?

    I don't agree with Tony Blair on much but on this he makes a degree of sense.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Speedy

    Winning the war, and losing the peace is common in war.
    "It comes with the territory" as they say.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

    If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness
    Read his piece, he's broadly right. You might not like that but that's unfortunate. In my view the problems now developing in Iraq weren't caused by going in to Iraq but not staying in or rather getting out too soon.

    Look he believes he is correct so he is perfectly entitled to continue to put his case. Do you want him to leave the stage because you don't like that he's right and it's easier to believe he is wrong if he's silent?

    I don't agree with Tony Blair on much but on this he makes a degree of sense.
    I read his piece and thought he was broadly correct in the points that he made. It was the stuff he didn't talk about where he deserves criticism. Why were jihadist militants so easily able to enter Syria to subvert the rebellion in the first place? Because they were already operating in Iraq, thanks to his invasion, and move across the porous border.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    isam said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

    If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness
    An interesting principle, compare Churchill etc.
    Dont really get that
    Do you think he should have retired after say the Gallipoli mess?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Socrates

    In the end, we are where we are. Should we try to help fix it, or ignore it?
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited June 2014
    ToryJim said:

    Read his piece, he's broadly right. You might not like that but that's unfortunate. In my view the problems now developing in Iraq weren't caused by going in to Iraq but not staying in or rather getting out too soon.

    Blair's pronouncements on Iraq are beginning to resemble those of a Hoxhaist: the proper policies failed, not because they were mistaken, but because they were never fully implemented or were overtaken by revisionism.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

    If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness
    Read his piece, he's broadly right. You might not like that but that's unfortunate. In my view the problems now developing in Iraq weren't caused by going in to Iraq but not staying in or rather getting out too soon.

    Look he believes he is correct so he is perfectly entitled to continue to put his case. Do you want him to leave the stage because you don't like that he's right and it's easier to believe he is wrong if he's silent?

    I don't agree with Tony Blair on much but on this he makes a degree of sense.
    I dont think he even believes what he says, he is like any other vain, self obsessed slimeball, trying to lie his way out of his mistakes rather than take responsibilty
  • oldnatoldnat Posts: 136
    GIN1138 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Yanks are "reviewing staffing requirements" at Baghdad embassy.

    i.e. evacuating....

    I can't imagine it would top of the list's for where diplomat's want to be sent to LOL!

    Actually, it can be popular. I know someone in the US Foreign Service who jumped at the chance of a Baghdad posting. Serving a tour of duty in such a place not only gives kudos in the service, but virtually guarantees cushy postings thereafter.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    @SeanT‌
    It really wasn't.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

    If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness
    An interesting principle, compare Churchill etc.
    Dont really get that
    Do you think he should have retired after say the Gallipoli mess?
    I dont know much at all about any of that so couldnt say
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited June 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @Speedy

    Winning the war, and losing the peace is common in war.
    "It comes with the territory" as they say.

    Heeding the advice of proven inconpetent and dangerous people is always the wrong thing to do, if you listen to Blair then we have to listen to Donald Rumsfeld.

    So here are two fun videos of him in mess o potamia:

    Rumsfeld:" first the have gone in a transition from the provisional authority to a transition to a provisional government to a transition to a transitional government to a transition to the permanate government"

    http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/8jxwta/mess-o-potamia---rumsfeld-doublespeak

    Rumsfeld: "there are several ways to look at it one way is to look at it numeracally, there are other ways to see it"

    http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/mrh9vp/mess-o-potamia---abstract-assessment
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Shit, another £10 down the drain.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Life_ina_market_town

    You could see what was going to happen when the "coalition" didn't put into place an enforceable plan for peace in Palestine/Israel even in the form of sanctions.
    Not addressing the source, but tinkering around the edges, is way to common and convenient in politics.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Oh dear, own goal. Argentina in front.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    AndyJS said:

    Useless from Honduras.

    Considering England failed to beat them in Miami recently, what does that make England?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Own goals galore it seems in this World Cup so far.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Nice, I can go to sleep early, with my winnings.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

    If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness
    An interesting principle, compare Churchill etc.
    Well Churchill wasn't a strategic genius, the original plan was to land on Alexandreta in the levant, not on a cliffside a thousand miles away and he repeated that mistake in the invasion of Italy.
    Instead of invading in the northern coasts of the peninsula and cut off southern and central Italy from the rest he invaded in the southern mountainous tip that had no roads so that it took the allies till May 1945 to reach Milan.

    Churchill was a great political leader, but he was bad in military affairs.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    Blair's analysis leaves out that the primary problem now is the Sunni-Shia civil war he started.



  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Bosnia are playing better than Honduras already.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Speedy said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

    If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness
    An interesting principle, compare Churchill etc.
    Well Churchill wasn't a strategic genius, the original plan was to land on Alexandreta in the levant, not on a cliffside a thousand miles away and he repeated that mistake in the invasion of Italy.
    Instead of invading in the northern coasts of the peninsula and cut off southern and central Italy from the rest he invaded in the southern mountainous tip that had no roads so that it took the allies till May 1945 to reach Milan.

    Churchill was a great political leader, but he was bad in military affairs.
    The basic ideas were good imo (as shown by the guy in Korea). The details sucked.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited June 2014
    AndyJS said:

    Bosnia are playing better than Honduras already.

    Well Honduras isn't Brazil really.
    Change that, Honduras isn't the Netherlands really.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited June 2014
    MrJones said:

    Speedy said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

    If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness
    An interesting principle, compare Churchill etc.
    Well Churchill wasn't a strategic genius, the original plan was to land on Alexandreta in the levant, not on a cliffside a thousand miles away and he repeated that mistake in the invasion of Italy.
    Instead of invading in the northern coasts of the peninsula and cut off southern and central Italy from the rest he invaded in the southern mountainous tip that had no roads so that it took the allies till May 1945 to reach Milan.

    Churchill was a great political leader, but he was bad in military affairs.
    The basic ideas were good imo (as shown by the guy in Korea). The details sucked.
    In Korea they did it properly, they landed hundreds of miles behind the frontlines and they cut off the North Korean army in the south.
    That is what they should have did in Italy, instead of landing in Calabria after Sicily, they should have landed in Tuscany and cut off the axis army in the south.
  • oldnatoldnat Posts: 136
    MrJones said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    Blair's analysis leaves out that the primary problem now is the Sunni-Shia civil war he started.

    He didn't start it. He blundered into it, with little idea of the consequences.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    If Obama bombs Iraq, what happens to his Nobel Peace Prize?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Jesus a tea, with Messi, Aguero and Zabaletta up front should be able to do better than this.

    Complete tosh so far from Argentina.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    oldnat said:

    MrJones said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    Blair's analysis leaves out that the primary problem now is the Sunni-Shia civil war he started.

    He didn't start it. He blundered into it, with little idea of the consequences.
    k he blundered into starting it then

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Speedy said:

    MrJones said:

    Speedy said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    ToryJim said:

    isam said:

    This should get PBers in the mood for decaring war on some middle eastern country

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair's state of outright denial of the obvious consequences of his disastrous decision-making on Iraq is making uncomfortable viewing

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Lesson is not that the West should intervene in Syria. Lesson is West should declare an end to the era of military intervention abroad.

    Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage · 11h
    Blair has become an embarrassment on the international stage. His friends would be well advised to urge an extended period of silence.

    Trouble is Tony Blair is correct in his analysis.
    I disagree. He is someone who has made an almighty mistake and has taken the modern course of action, namely to keep on repeating the mistake until he gets lucky rather than take responsobility and apologise

    If he had any sense of honour or humility he would retire somewhere quiet and sunny and seek forgiveness
    An interesting principle, compare Churchill etc.
    Well Churchill wasn't a strategic genius, the original plan was to land on Alexandreta in the levant, not on a cliffside a thousand miles away and he repeated that mistake in the invasion of Italy.
    Instead of invading in the northern coasts of the peninsula and cut off southern and central Italy from the rest he invaded in the southern mountainous tip that had no roads so that it took the allies till May 1945 to reach Milan.

    Churchill was a great political leader, but he was bad in military affairs.
    The basic ideas were good imo (as shown by the guy in Korea). The details sucked.
    In Korea they did it properly, they landed hundreds of miles behind the frontlines and they cut off the North Korean army in the south.
    That is what they should have did in Italy, instead of landing in Calabria after Sicily, they should have landed in Tuscany and cut off the axis army in the south.
    yup
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited June 2014
    oldnat said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Yanks are "reviewing staffing requirements" at Baghdad embassy.

    i.e. evacuating....

    I can't imagine it would top of the list's for where diplomat's want to be sent to LOL!

    Actually, it can be popular. I know someone in the US Foreign Service who jumped at the chance of a Baghdad posting. Serving a tour of duty in such a place not only gives kudos in the service, but virtually guarantees cushy postings thereafter.
    Not always cushy, oldnat.

    The last four of our men in Baghdad have travelled as follows

    Dominic Asquith - Iraq to Egypt (Arab Spring at end) to Libya (post Gadaffi)
    Christopher Prentice - Iraq to Italy (the exception)
    John Jenkins - Syria to Iraq to Libya to Saudi Arabia
    Michael Aron - Kuwait to Iraq to Libya

    Their rewards:
    Asquith - KCMG
    Prentice - CMG (still serving in Italy)
    Jenkins - KCMG
    Aron - no gongs as yet (see incident in Kuwait)

    And of course Asquith's US counterpart in Libya, Christopher Stevens, returned from Benghazi in a box.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Hmm Argentina not looking frightening.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Just stuck my £5 free bet from the good value FGS loser R Sterling @ 14-1 on Bosnia @ 25-1.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    AndyJS said:

    If Obama bombs Iraq, what happens to his Nobel Peace Prize?

    No commitee has asked for their prizes back, so he keeps it.
    Plus the number of people who have done wars before or after a nobel peace prize is quite long and famous.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Pulpstar said:

    Jesus a tea, with Messi, Aguero and Zabaletta up front should be able to do better than this.

    Complete tosh so far from Argentina.

    It's a downsized version of Brazil vs Croatia, literally both countries are one step bellow.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    O/T: You know how you can switch on Radio 4 at random at get drawn into a discussion about the life of Jamaican dockers in 1900 or something else you never gave a thought? This article is a bit like that - at least it was for me. Fascinating.

    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/jun/14/my-children-grew-up-in-commune
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    AveryLP said:

    oldnat said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Yanks are "reviewing staffing requirements" at Baghdad embassy.

    i.e. evacuating....

    I can't imagine it would top of the list's for where diplomat's want to be sent to LOL!

    Actually, it can be popular. I know someone in the US Foreign Service who jumped at the chance of a Baghdad posting. Serving a tour of duty in such a place not only gives kudos in the service, but virtually guarantees cushy postings thereafter.
    Not always cushy, oldnat.

    The last four of our men in Baghdad have travelled as follows

    Dominic Asquith - Iraq to Egypt (Arab Spring at end) to Libya (post Gadaffi)
    Christopher Prentice - Iraq to Italy (the exception)
    John Jenkins - Syria to Iraq to Libya to Saudi Arabia
    Michael Aron - Kuwait to Iraq to Libya

    Their rewards:
    Asquith - KCMG
    Prentice - CMG (still serving in Italy)
    Jenkins - KCMG
    Aron - no gongs as yet (see incident in Kuwait)

    And of course Asquith's US counterpart in Libya, Christopher Stevens, returned from Benghazi in a box.
    Lesson here, when you start getting posts to the middle east, you get stuck in the middle east.
  • oldnatoldnat Posts: 136
    AveryLP said:

    oldnat said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Yanks are "reviewing staffing requirements" at Baghdad embassy.

    i.e. evacuating....

    I can't imagine it would top of the list's for where diplomat's want to be sent to LOL!

    Actually, it can be popular. I know someone in the US Foreign Service who jumped at the chance of a Baghdad posting. Serving a tour of duty in such a place not only gives kudos in the service, but virtually guarantees cushy postings thereafter.
    Not always cushy, oldnat.

    The last four of our men in Baghdad have travelled as follows

    Dominic Asquith - Iraq to Egypt (Arab Spring at end) to Libya (post Gadaffi)
    Christopher Prentice - Iraq to Italy (the exception)
    John Jenkins - Syria to Iraq to Libya to Saudi Arabia
    Michael Aron - Kuwait to Iraq to Libya

    Their rewards:
    Asquith - KCMG
    Prentice - CMG (still serving in Italy)
    Jenkins - KCMG
    Aron - no gongs as yet (see incident in Kuwait)

    And of course Asquith's US counterpart in Libya, Christopher Stevens, returned from Benghazi in a box.
    Well, they could have lied to him, of course. Nah. The US Government would never tell lies!
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    23.19 Between 50 and 100 US Marines and US Army personnel have arrived at the US Embassy in Baghdad, CNN reports.
    22.27 The Pentagon has issued a statement about the security boost and evacuation at the US Embassy in Baghdad. Staff will be evacuated using commercial, charter and State Department aircraft. The US military also has "airlift assets at the ready" should they be needed, Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Speedy said:

    AveryLP said:

    oldnat said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Yanks are "reviewing staffing requirements" at Baghdad embassy.

    i.e. evacuating....

    I can't imagine it would top of the list's for where diplomat's want to be sent to LOL!

    Actually, it can be popular. I know someone in the US Foreign Service who jumped at the chance of a Baghdad posting. Serving a tour of duty in such a place not only gives kudos in the service, but virtually guarantees cushy postings thereafter.
    Not always cushy, oldnat.

    The last four of our men in Baghdad have travelled as follows

    Dominic Asquith - Iraq to Egypt (Arab Spring at end) to Libya (post Gadaffi)
    Christopher Prentice - Iraq to Italy (the exception)
    John Jenkins - Syria to Iraq to Libya to Saudi Arabia
    Michael Aron - Kuwait to Iraq to Libya

    Their rewards:
    Asquith - KCMG
    Prentice - CMG (still serving in Italy)
    Jenkins - KCMG
    Aron - no gongs as yet (see incident in Kuwait)

    And of course Asquith's US counterpart in Libya, Christopher Stevens, returned from Benghazi in a box.
    Lesson here, when you start getting posts to the middle east, you get stuck in the middle east.
    Not really. Most of the above are Middle Eastern specialists who made their choices very early on in their careers. They will have been let out of the area for only one or two postings (except for being posted back home in London for short periods).

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Messi 8-1 for the Golden boot.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    RodCrosby said:

    23.19 Between 50 and 100 US Marines and US Army personnel have arrived at the US Embassy in Baghdad, CNN reports.
    22.27 The Pentagon has issued a statement about the security boost and evacuation at the US Embassy in Baghdad. Staff will be evacuated using commercial, charter and State Department aircraft. The US military also has "airlift assets at the ready" should they be needed, Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said.

    Look at the last briefing from the pentagon and you'll see a defeated worried Admiral Kirby.

    http://www.c-span.org/video/?319966-2/defense-department-briefing
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Question is will those marines be used to defend the city (and under that iranian general who has taken over the defences)?
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