New polling tonight finds 64% thinking a deal is unlikely compared with just 16% who do – politicalb
Options
Comments
-
My wife was given paperwork yesterday to get her vaccine and she said most of her colleagues said they don't want it.IanB2 said:
From all the media coverage, the main takeaway is the good news that we have a vaccine, the second takeaway is that this has been achieved in a fraction of the time normally devoted to development and testing. This latter point is bound to make some people nervous.Foxy said:
Yes, similar vibes in our staff break room. Mostly HCAs and admin, but often intelligent folk otherwise.paulyork64 said:Vaccine anecdote. My wife was talking with co-workers in the staff room yesterday and 3 out the 4 said they didnt want the vaccine. All were health care assistants rather than doctors or nurses but I still find this a bit worrying/surprising.
I really don't get it. Makes me very angry if we have a vaccine available and can't make this bloody virus go away because people who need it turn it down.2 -
They're French, innit...RochdalePioneers said:Not sure how the coming closure of the Airbus factories is excellent news.
0 -
BBC R4 right now is saying Brexit is a significant contributorJohnLilburne said:
According to the BBC this is due to corona, not BrexitRochdalePioneers said:
This simply isn't true. What would Honda and the logistics companies who supply Honda know about it? There won't be any significant disruption. And because there may be significant disruption can't they simply tear up their global business plan and start stockpiling parts that haven't yet been manufactured in warehouses that don't exist? What do you mean no? Bloody remoaners.Scott_xP said:
0 -
Negotiations are still ongoing. One way or another, deal or no deal, you will soon know what the arrangements are in 4 weeks time and people will adapt one way or another.RochdalePioneers said:
Warehouses are literally rammed full of everything you can think of. There is a shortage of wooden pallets. There is a major lack of chilled and frozen space. Yes the pox is a disruptor, but the supply chains in France aren't looking like ours - the variable is Brexit, and to quote DavidL it is not just dishonest to claim Brexit isn't the driving issue but downright delusional.IanB2 said:
There is some evidence of stockpiling in anticipation of post-no-deal shortages: this is affecting some building supplies and also feeding through to stocks in DIY stores. This would be because of fear of a no-deal Brexit.DavidL said:
Of course it is. How could a shortage of parts now have anything to do with Brexit when we are still operating under the transitional arrangements? The world economy has suffered disruption. This is a consequence.JohnLilburne said:
According to the BBC this is due to corona, not BrexitRochdalePioneers said:
This simply isn't true. What would Honda and the logistics companies who supply Honda know about it? There won't be any significant disruption. And because there may be significant disruption can't they simply tear up their global business plan and start stockpiling parts that haven't yet been manufactured in warehouses that don't exist? What do you mean no? Bloody remoaners.Scott_xP said:
It is just dishonest to claim anything else. But nothing will stop the hyperbole and hysteria.
Whether having stuff Amazoned to us directly will work as well after 1 January, who can say?
Go and ask anyone in any supply chain what their problem is. They don't know the arrangements in 3 weeks time. They don't know what paperwork will be needed. They don't know how long it will take for things to arrive. They don't know how much anything will cost.0 -
A trade deal would be easier if the EU separated trade and politics. Simply agree no tariffs on everything and then talk about the other things. The EU is obsessed with "free" trade being the quid pro quo for membership of its expensive political club. Whereas you should be prepared to trade freely with your political enemies.RochdalePioneers said:
Not sure how the coming closure of the Airbus factories is excellent news. Wings are made here because they are in the same free trade zero tariff zero checks zero delays zone as the factories that make other parts. Won't make any sense at all to continue doing so once we make wing manufacture here an expensive faff.JohnLilburne said:
Excellent news. We left the EU precisely so we could be less protectionist.Scott_xP said:There is a report this morning that the UK will suspend tariffs against Boeing that the EU introduced to protect Airbus
How long can Airbus keep the UK factory open under those circumstances?
And its the same with the car industry. Major components that cross the channel multiple times before completion - when each crossing involves reams of paperwork and delays (and possibly tariffs) why bother when you can keep it all inside the same zone?
North East Tories foam on about the Hitachi plant in Newton Aycliffe. They don't get that it does literally nothing that Hitachi can't do at their factory in Italy, with production of various train fleets already produced in tandem in both plants or exclusively in Italy. Why bother with the costs and delays of importing all the parts to the UK when you can avoid all those costs and built in Italy?
No deal knackers all of these industries. A deal involving full customs and standards checks knackers these industries. We keep signing continuity deals with people - the sovereign right to carry on with the existing deal. That is the only hope for British industry. A continuity EU deal. No need for delays and checks and tariffs where trade flows free and unimpeded across the border.1 -
The evidence is that there have been serious disruptions in trade flows around the globe as a result of difficulties in production, difficulties in transportation and various regimes designed to stop the spread of Covid. Businesses which largely operate on a just in time basis are particularly badly affected.IanB2 said:
There is some evidence of stockpiling in anticipation of post-no-deal shortages: this is affecting some building supplies and also feeding through to stocks in DIY stores. This would be because of fear of a no-deal Brexit.DavidL said:
Of course it is. How could a shortage of parts now have anything to do with Brexit when we are still operating under the transitional arrangements? The world economy has suffered disruption. This is a consequence.JohnLilburne said:
According to the BBC this is due to corona, not BrexitRochdalePioneers said:
This simply isn't true. What would Honda and the logistics companies who supply Honda know about it? There won't be any significant disruption. And because there may be significant disruption can't they simply tear up their global business plan and start stockpiling parts that haven't yet been manufactured in warehouses that don't exist? What do you mean no? Bloody remoaners.Scott_xP said:
It is just dishonest to claim anything else. But nothing will stop the hyperbole and hysteria.
Whether having stuff Amazoned to us directly will work as well after 1 January, who can say?
I fully accept that it is a legitimate point that such a scenario is somewhat less than optimal when looking to materially change your import and export arrangements with some of your larger customers/suppliers. This is especially so when we don't know what the new arrangements are going to be in 3 weeks time because of the failure to agree a deal. But that is not the way this is being presented and it is just dishonest/meaningless.0 -
Polling suggests we start with a base of around 25-30% who are expressing concern, from reluctance to refusal.Philip_Thompson said:
My wife was given paperwork yesterday to get her vaccine and she said most of her colleagues said they don't want it.IanB2 said:
From all the media coverage, the main takeaway is the good news that we have a vaccine, the second takeaway is that this has been achieved in a fraction of the time normally devoted to development and testing. This latter point is bound to make some people nervous.Foxy said:
Yes, similar vibes in our staff break room. Mostly HCAs and admin, but often intelligent folk otherwise.paulyork64 said:Vaccine anecdote. My wife was talking with co-workers in the staff room yesterday and 3 out the 4 said they didnt want the vaccine. All were health care assistants rather than doctors or nurses but I still find this a bit worrying/surprising.
I really don't get it. Makes me very angry if we have a vaccine available and can't make this bloody virus go away because people who need it turn it down.
One of the issues will be that we really don't know how effective will be - how long the immunity will last, and whether or not (like flu) the virus will simply mutate to avoid it.
I'd be a lot keener to get lifetime protection against Corona than to have a shot that only lasted a year.0 -
But who's wanted to both leave the club and to continue using its unique trading zone - the EU or the UK ?JohnLilburne said:
A trade deal would be easier if the EU separated trade and politics. Simply agree no tariffs on everything and then talk about the other things. The EU is obsessed with "free" trade being the quid pro quo for membership of its expensive political club. Whereas you should be prepared to trade freely with your political enemies.RochdalePioneers said:
Not sure how the coming closure of the Airbus factories is excellent news. Wings are made here because they are in the same free trade zero tariff zero checks zero delays zone as the factories that make other parts. Won't make any sense at all to continue doing so once we make wing manufacture here an expensive faff.JohnLilburne said:
Excellent news. We left the EU precisely so we could be less protectionist.Scott_xP said:There is a report this morning that the UK will suspend tariffs against Boeing that the EU introduced to protect Airbus
How long can Airbus keep the UK factory open under those circumstances?
And its the same with the car industry. Major components that cross the channel multiple times before completion - when each crossing involves reams of paperwork and delays (and possibly tariffs) why bother when you can keep it all inside the same zone?
North East Tories foam on about the Hitachi plant in Newton Aycliffe. They don't get that it does literally nothing that Hitachi can't do at their factory in Italy, with production of various train fleets already produced in tandem in both plants or exclusively in Italy. Why bother with the costs and delays of importing all the parts to the UK when you can avoid all those costs and built in Italy?
No deal knackers all of these industries. A deal involving full customs and standards checks knackers these industries. We keep signing continuity deals with people - the sovereign right to carry on with the existing deal. That is the only hope for British industry. A continuity EU deal. No need for delays and checks and tariffs where trade flows free and unimpeded across the border.0 -
Despite which, there is no reason to levy tariffs.Gardenwalker said:
Quite! Boeing is an absolute model of free market competition.JohnLilburne said:
Excellent news. We left the EU precisely so we could be less protectionist.Scott_xP said:There is a report this morning that the UK will suspend tariffs against Boeing that the EU introduced to protect Airbus
How long can Airbus keep the UK factory open under those circumstances?0 -
-
And, like most Brexiters, he always turns the debate back to tariffs, and doesn't want to talk about non-tariff barriers, standards, checks, paperwork and red tape.WhisperingOracle said:
But who's wanted to both leave a club and to continue using it trading zone - the EU or the UK ?JohnLilburne said:
A trade deal would be easier if the EU separated trade and politics. Simply agree no tariffs on everything and then talk about the other things. The EU is obsessed with "free" trade being the quid pro quo for membership of its expensive political club. Whereas you should be prepared to trade freely with your political enemies.RochdalePioneers said:
Not sure how the coming closure of the Airbus factories is excellent news. Wings are made here because they are in the same free trade zero tariff zero checks zero delays zone as the factories that make other parts. Won't make any sense at all to continue doing so once we make wing manufacture here an expensive faff.JohnLilburne said:
Excellent news. We left the EU precisely so we could be less protectionist.Scott_xP said:There is a report this morning that the UK will suspend tariffs against Boeing that the EU introduced to protect Airbus
How long can Airbus keep the UK factory open under those circumstances?
And its the same with the car industry. Major components that cross the channel multiple times before completion - when each crossing involves reams of paperwork and delays (and possibly tariffs) why bother when you can keep it all inside the same zone?
North East Tories foam on about the Hitachi plant in Newton Aycliffe. They don't get that it does literally nothing that Hitachi can't do at their factory in Italy, with production of various train fleets already produced in tandem in both plants or exclusively in Italy. Why bother with the costs and delays of importing all the parts to the UK when you can avoid all those costs and built in Italy?
No deal knackers all of these industries. A deal involving full customs and standards checks knackers these industries. We keep signing continuity deals with people - the sovereign right to carry on with the existing deal. That is the only hope for British industry. A continuity EU deal. No need for delays and checks and tariffs where trade flows free and unimpeded across the border.0 -
Worldwide crash in automotive volumes, impact of electric cars versus diesel. This is one of automotive periodic dips ( it happens about every 10 years ) and product fundamentals drive the decision not local blips. Look across the industry and all manufacturers are re-organising their operations. Renault for example has announced the closure of 4 plants and doesnt have a single UK operation.Gardenwalker said:
There’s always a reason it’s not Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
Funny that.
Stick with advertising1 -
So when a few years down the line we have seen all major pan-European manufacturing like automotive transferred from the UK into the EU will you be claiming that its all due to global factors and nothing to do with Brexit?Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
If we end up with no deal or a trade barriers deal we are going to be a unique experiment. What happens when you have a globalised industry and supply chain and voluntarily decide to impose barriers to trade? Does industry suck it up, respect the mandate, whistle Rule Britannia etc? Or relocate to a market where they don't have barriers to trade in the way that globalised industry has been doing for decades?
Would be a good time for a Brexity industrialist to be investing here in production. Get the great British brands made in Britain and exported cheaply thanks to our devalued currency. Or it would be if they weren't busy building their factories in foreign places that won't have the same barriers to trade as Britain does.
0 -
Jesus Christ, it’s like stepping into a time machine to before the Brexit vote.JohnLilburne said:
A trade deal would be easier if the EU separated trade and politics. Simply agree no tariffs on everything and then talk about the other things. The EU is obsessed with "free" trade being the quid pro quo for membership of its expensive political club. Whereas you should be prepared to trade freely with your political enemies.RochdalePioneers said:
Not sure how the coming closure of the Airbus factories is excellent news. Wings are made here because they are in the same free trade zero tariff zero checks zero delays zone as the factories that make other parts. Won't make any sense at all to continue doing so once we make wing manufacture here an expensive faff.JohnLilburne said:
Excellent news. We left the EU precisely so we could be less protectionist.Scott_xP said:There is a report this morning that the UK will suspend tariffs against Boeing that the EU introduced to protect Airbus
How long can Airbus keep the UK factory open under those circumstances?
And its the same with the car industry. Major components that cross the channel multiple times before completion - when each crossing involves reams of paperwork and delays (and possibly tariffs) why bother when you can keep it all inside the same zone?
North East Tories foam on about the Hitachi plant in Newton Aycliffe. They don't get that it does literally nothing that Hitachi can't do at their factory in Italy, with production of various train fleets already produced in tandem in both plants or exclusively in Italy. Why bother with the costs and delays of importing all the parts to the UK when you can avoid all those costs and built in Italy?
No deal knackers all of these industries. A deal involving full customs and standards checks knackers these industries. We keep signing continuity deals with people - the sovereign right to carry on with the existing deal. That is the only hope for British industry. A continuity EU deal. No need for delays and checks and tariffs where trade flows free and unimpeded across the border.
This is Daily Mail comments level stuff.
0 -
Some did, some didn't. It is the more toxic end of Facebook that does it. I stopped Facebook some years ago. It had shifted from being a fun way of staying in touch, to advertising spam and forwarded sub QAnon nonsense. I don't miss it. I still quite like Twitter and TikTok.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t think the vaccine should be compulsory.Foxy said:
Yes, similar vibes in our staff break room. Mostly HCAs and admin, but often intelligent folk otherwise.paulyork64 said:Vaccine anecdote. My wife was talking with co-workers in the staff room yesterday and 3 out the 4 said they didnt want the vaccine. All were health care assistants rather than doctors or nurses but I still find this a bit worrying/surprising.
But anti-vaxxers should go to hell.
I bet they all voted Brexit as well.
Its not so much anti-vaxxing as anxiety that the testing has been rushed. I expect they will be fine once the vaccine has been shown to be safe and effective. Not much uptake of the biweekly lateral flow testing either. People just don't want to do it.
0 -
And why have Felixstowe's systems chosen this moment to fail?eek said:
It’s due to neither. Felixstowe's systems have failed and it seems all attempts to fix it have equally failed. That has created logistical nightmares that have created problems everywhere else.JohnLilburne said:
According to the BBC this is due to corona, not BrexitRochdalePioneers said:
This simply isn't true. What would Honda and the logistics companies who supply Honda know about it? There won't be any significant disruption. And because there may be significant disruption can't they simply tear up their global business plan and start stockpiling parts that haven't yet been manufactured in warehouses that don't exist? What do you mean no? Bloody remoaners.Scott_xP said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/12/08/food-rots-factories-shut-port-chaos-hammers-uk/
0 -
Clearly the UK. But if, say, France was leaving and we were staying, I would say it was clearly in everybody's best interests to continue to offer free trade to the French on the current terms.WhisperingOracle said:
But who's wanted to both leave the club and to continue using its trading zone - the EU or the UK ?JohnLilburne said:
A trade deal would be easier if the EU separated trade and politics. Simply agree no tariffs on everything and then talk about the other things. The EU is obsessed with "free" trade being the quid pro quo for membership of its expensive political club. Whereas you should be prepared to trade freely with your political enemies.RochdalePioneers said:
Not sure how the coming closure of the Airbus factories is excellent news. Wings are made here because they are in the same free trade zero tariff zero checks zero delays zone as the factories that make other parts. Won't make any sense at all to continue doing so once we make wing manufacture here an expensive faff.JohnLilburne said:
Excellent news. We left the EU precisely so we could be less protectionist.Scott_xP said:There is a report this morning that the UK will suspend tariffs against Boeing that the EU introduced to protect Airbus
How long can Airbus keep the UK factory open under those circumstances?
And its the same with the car industry. Major components that cross the channel multiple times before completion - when each crossing involves reams of paperwork and delays (and possibly tariffs) why bother when you can keep it all inside the same zone?
North East Tories foam on about the Hitachi plant in Newton Aycliffe. They don't get that it does literally nothing that Hitachi can't do at their factory in Italy, with production of various train fleets already produced in tandem in both plants or exclusively in Italy. Why bother with the costs and delays of importing all the parts to the UK when you can avoid all those costs and built in Italy?
No deal knackers all of these industries. A deal involving full customs and standards checks knackers these industries. We keep signing continuity deals with people - the sovereign right to carry on with the existing deal. That is the only hope for British industry. A continuity EU deal. No need for delays and checks and tariffs where trade flows free and unimpeded across the border.2 -
Indeed. Its perfectly normal in commercial terms to need to import things and not know how much they will cost when they arrive. Business should stop moaning and start being more patriotic.Philip_Thompson said:
Negotiations are still ongoing. One way or another, deal or no deal, you will soon know what the arrangements are in 4 weeks time and people will adapt one way or another.RochdalePioneers said:
Warehouses are literally rammed full of everything you can think of. There is a shortage of wooden pallets. There is a major lack of chilled and frozen space. Yes the pox is a disruptor, but the supply chains in France aren't looking like ours - the variable is Brexit, and to quote DavidL it is not just dishonest to claim Brexit isn't the driving issue but downright delusional.IanB2 said:
There is some evidence of stockpiling in anticipation of post-no-deal shortages: this is affecting some building supplies and also feeding through to stocks in DIY stores. This would be because of fear of a no-deal Brexit.DavidL said:
Of course it is. How could a shortage of parts now have anything to do with Brexit when we are still operating under the transitional arrangements? The world economy has suffered disruption. This is a consequence.JohnLilburne said:
According to the BBC this is due to corona, not BrexitRochdalePioneers said:
This simply isn't true. What would Honda and the logistics companies who supply Honda know about it? There won't be any significant disruption. And because there may be significant disruption can't they simply tear up their global business plan and start stockpiling parts that haven't yet been manufactured in warehouses that don't exist? What do you mean no? Bloody remoaners.Scott_xP said:
It is just dishonest to claim anything else. But nothing will stop the hyperbole and hysteria.
Whether having stuff Amazoned to us directly will work as well after 1 January, who can say?
Go and ask anyone in any supply chain what their problem is. They don't know the arrangements in 3 weeks time. They don't know what paperwork will be needed. They don't know how long it will take for things to arrive. They don't know how much anything will cost.0 -
You fully accept that Brexit is making a bad situation worse but just don’t want it reported as such.DavidL said:
The evidence is that there have been serious disruptions in trade flows around the globe as a result of difficulties in production, difficulties in transportation and various regimes designed to stop the spread of Covid. Businesses which largely operate on a just in time basis are particularly badly affected.IanB2 said:
There is some evidence of stockpiling in anticipation of post-no-deal shortages: this is affecting some building supplies and also feeding through to stocks in DIY stores. This would be because of fear of a no-deal Brexit.DavidL said:
Of course it is. How could a shortage of parts now have anything to do with Brexit when we are still operating under the transitional arrangements? The world economy has suffered disruption. This is a consequence.JohnLilburne said:
According to the BBC this is due to corona, not BrexitRochdalePioneers said:
This simply isn't true. What would Honda and the logistics companies who supply Honda know about it? There won't be any significant disruption. And because there may be significant disruption can't they simply tear up their global business plan and start stockpiling parts that haven't yet been manufactured in warehouses that don't exist? What do you mean no? Bloody remoaners.Scott_xP said:
It is just dishonest to claim anything else. But nothing will stop the hyperbole and hysteria.
Whether having stuff Amazoned to us directly will work as well after 1 January, who can say?
I fully accept that it is a legitimate point that such a scenario is somewhat less than optimal when looking to materially change your import and export arrangements with some of your larger customers/suppliers. This is especially so when we don't know what the new arrangements are going to be in 3 weeks time because of the failure to agree a deal. But that is not the way this is being presented and it is just dishonest/meaningless.
OK.0 -
Neither of us is sitting at Felixstowe watching the growing mountain of containers, so we are having to take what is on the news on trust. But Corona has been around since the spring whereas no-deal Brexit is a new event just weeks away.DavidL said:
The evidence is that there have been serious disruptions in trade flows around the globe as a result of difficulties in production, difficulties in transportation and various regimes designed to stop the spread of Covid. Businesses which largely operate on a just in time basis are particularly badly affected.IanB2 said:
There is some evidence of stockpiling in anticipation of post-no-deal shortages: this is affecting some building supplies and also feeding through to stocks in DIY stores. This would be because of fear of a no-deal Brexit.DavidL said:
Of course it is. How could a shortage of parts now have anything to do with Brexit when we are still operating under the transitional arrangements? The world economy has suffered disruption. This is a consequence.JohnLilburne said:
According to the BBC this is due to corona, not BrexitRochdalePioneers said:
This simply isn't true. What would Honda and the logistics companies who supply Honda know about it? There won't be any significant disruption. And because there may be significant disruption can't they simply tear up their global business plan and start stockpiling parts that haven't yet been manufactured in warehouses that don't exist? What do you mean no? Bloody remoaners.Scott_xP said:
It is just dishonest to claim anything else. But nothing will stop the hyperbole and hysteria.
Whether having stuff Amazoned to us directly will work as well after 1 January, who can say?
I fully accept that it is a legitimate point that such a scenario is somewhat less than optimal when looking to materially change your import and export arrangements with some of your larger customers/suppliers. This is especially so when we don't know what the new arrangements are going to be in 3 weeks time because of the failure to agree a deal. But that is not the way this is being presented and it is just dishonest/meaningless.
We'll have to keep Amazoning and hoping.0 -
the crocodile tears for manufacturing come from the people who when Blair butchered our manufacturing sector cheer led the efforts because we were all going to be a service economy with fantastic financial services paying the bills. That went well.RochdalePioneers said:
So when a few years down the line we have seen all major pan-European manufacturing like automotive transferred from the UK into the EU will you be claiming that its all due to global factors and nothing to do with Brexit?Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
If we end up with no deal or a trade barriers deal we are going to be a unique experiment. What happens when you have a globalised industry and supply chain and voluntarily decide to impose barriers to trade? Does industry suck it up, respect the mandate, whistle Rule Britannia etc? Or relocate to a market where they don't have barriers to trade in the way that globalised industry has been doing for decades?
Would be a good time for a Brexity industrialist to be investing here in production. Get the great British brands made in Britain and exported cheaply thanks to our devalued currency. Or it would be if they weren't busy building their factories in foreign places that won't have the same barriers to trade as Britain does.
If you give a shit about UK manufacturing Im afraid you're about 15 years too late.3 -
https://twitter.com/donnyc1975/status/1336574732712415233
To be fair I would expect Dover / Calais to be better organised than Terehova on the Russia / Latvia border. Then again we have a tad more vehicles crossing and its by sea not by land.
I'm sure it will all be fine...0 -
Nothing worse than people near the front of the queue whinging that they don't want the vaccine.Philip_Thompson said:
My wife was given paperwork yesterday to get her vaccine and she said most of her colleagues said they don't want it.IanB2 said:
From all the media coverage, the main takeaway is the good news that we have a vaccine, the second takeaway is that this has been achieved in a fraction of the time normally devoted to development and testing. This latter point is bound to make some people nervous.Foxy said:
Yes, similar vibes in our staff break room. Mostly HCAs and admin, but often intelligent folk otherwise.paulyork64 said:Vaccine anecdote. My wife was talking with co-workers in the staff room yesterday and 3 out the 4 said they didnt want the vaccine. All were health care assistants rather than doctors or nurses but I still find this a bit worrying/surprising.
I really don't get it. Makes me very angry if we have a vaccine available and can't make this bloody virus go away because people who need it turn it down.
If people don't want to have it, there's a simple solution - just punt them to priority group 11? after 18-50 yr olds that do want it but are otherwise last2 -
Personally I can't wait until my turn in the queue. It will remove a considerable source of anxiety. Probably not going to be before March though.Foxy said:
Some did, some didn't. It is the more toxic end of Facebook that does it. I stopped Facebook some years ago. It had shifted from being a fun way of staying in touch, to advertising spam and forwarded sub QAnon nonsense. I don't miss it. I still quite like Twitter and TikTok.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t think the vaccine should be compulsory.Foxy said:
Yes, similar vibes in our staff break room. Mostly HCAs and admin, but often intelligent folk otherwise.paulyork64 said:Vaccine anecdote. My wife was talking with co-workers in the staff room yesterday and 3 out the 4 said they didnt want the vaccine. All were health care assistants rather than doctors or nurses but I still find this a bit worrying/surprising.
But anti-vaxxers should go to hell.
I bet they all voted Brexit as well.
Its not so much anti-vaxxing as anxiety that the testing has been rushed. I expect they will be fine once the vaccine has been shown to be safe and effective. Not much uptake of the biweekly lateral flow testing either. People just don't want to do it.0 -
There's always a reason to blame Brexit, against rational alternative explanations.Gardenwalker said:
There’s always a reason it’s not Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
Funny that.
Funny that.0 -
-
You could have known for certain by the trade talks being abandoned in full guaranteeing no deal. Would you have preferred that than to continue talking hoping a deal can be reached.RochdalePioneers said:
Indeed. Its perfectly normal in commercial terms to need to import things and not know how much they will cost when they arrive. Business should stop moaning and start being more patriotic.Philip_Thompson said:
Negotiations are still ongoing. One way or another, deal or no deal, you will soon know what the arrangements are in 4 weeks time and people will adapt one way or another.RochdalePioneers said:
Warehouses are literally rammed full of everything you can think of. There is a shortage of wooden pallets. There is a major lack of chilled and frozen space. Yes the pox is a disruptor, but the supply chains in France aren't looking like ours - the variable is Brexit, and to quote DavidL it is not just dishonest to claim Brexit isn't the driving issue but downright delusional.IanB2 said:
There is some evidence of stockpiling in anticipation of post-no-deal shortages: this is affecting some building supplies and also feeding through to stocks in DIY stores. This would be because of fear of a no-deal Brexit.DavidL said:
Of course it is. How could a shortage of parts now have anything to do with Brexit when we are still operating under the transitional arrangements? The world economy has suffered disruption. This is a consequence.JohnLilburne said:
According to the BBC this is due to corona, not BrexitRochdalePioneers said:
This simply isn't true. What would Honda and the logistics companies who supply Honda know about it? There won't be any significant disruption. And because there may be significant disruption can't they simply tear up their global business plan and start stockpiling parts that haven't yet been manufactured in warehouses that don't exist? What do you mean no? Bloody remoaners.Scott_xP said:
It is just dishonest to claim anything else. But nothing will stop the hyperbole and hysteria.
Whether having stuff Amazoned to us directly will work as well after 1 January, who can say?
Go and ask anyone in any supply chain what their problem is. They don't know the arrangements in 3 weeks time. They don't know what paperwork will be needed. They don't know how long it will take for things to arrive. They don't know how much anything will cost.
It seems to borrow a hackneyed metaphor you want to have your cake and eat it too: you want certainty but don't want to accept no deal which is the only certainty available on the table prior to a deal being agreeable.0 -
The trickier part will be converting regulatory sovereignty into material payback to leave voters. Johnson’s shiny monument cannot be melted down and minted into coins for people whose jobs have vanished because the supply chain in which they worked has been rerouted via Slovakia. Autonomy from EU rules affords some leeway to subsidise industry, but most Tories are ideologically repelled by the idea of government picking economic winners. The Eurosceptic instinct tends the other way, applying market forces as the remedy to any malaise, cutting taxes and regulation to purge the body politic of state-induced lethargy. Strategists in Downing Street know that such medicine would be poison to voters in former Labour strongholds that make up the prime minister’s new power base.Scott_xP said:
On the international stage, Johnson’s paddling pool of sovereignty will evaporate in no time. Joe Biden is a friend of the European project and intends to make that the axis for renewal of alliances that Donald Trump despised. Paris and Berlin reciprocate eagerly. One of the unique strengths of British foreign policy used to be serving as the strategic link between Washington and continental Europe. EU membership was the bridge, and now it is burnt. It cannot be rebuilt with the wreckers’ tools.
Johnson engages in that kind of brinkmanship because he thinks it shows strength, but it has the opposite effect. Anyone looking from the outside can see the structural weakness of his position regardless of the heroic poses he strikes. Every time he pulls some stunt to demonstrate how serious he is about Brexit for a domestic audience, he advertises the folly of the thing in the international arena. He has borrowed heavily against Britain’s reputation as a level-headed, pragmatic country and reliable ally, just to purchase a few more ounces of sovereignty. It all has to be paid back. But that is the deal. That was always the deal.2 -
Did we?JohnLilburne said:
Excellent news. We left the EU precisely so we could be less protectionist.Scott_xP said:There is a report this morning that the UK will suspend tariffs against Boeing that the EU introduced to protect Airbus
How long can Airbus keep the UK factory open under those circumstances?
I find that free trading Brexiteers are far outnumbered by those wanting protectionist measures for British jobs and industry.
Now it is possible that the free traders conned the protectionists, but I suspect that the latter will prevail because that is where the voters are.
1 -
It's not though.JohnLilburne said:Clearly the UK. But if, say, France was leaving and we were staying, I would say it was clearly in everybody's best interests to continue to offer free trade to the French on the current terms.
Cornish brie manufacturers would be lobbying hard for tariffs on French supply
Protectionism and nationalism go hand in hand0 -
I'm sure that they will be punted and the vaccine will go to someone else if they do refuse.Pulpstar said:
Nothing worse than people near the front of the queue whinging that they don't want the vaccine.Philip_Thompson said:
My wife was given paperwork yesterday to get her vaccine and she said most of her colleagues said they don't want it.IanB2 said:
From all the media coverage, the main takeaway is the good news that we have a vaccine, the second takeaway is that this has been achieved in a fraction of the time normally devoted to development and testing. This latter point is bound to make some people nervous.Foxy said:
Yes, similar vibes in our staff break room. Mostly HCAs and admin, but often intelligent folk otherwise.paulyork64 said:Vaccine anecdote. My wife was talking with co-workers in the staff room yesterday and 3 out the 4 said they didnt want the vaccine. All were health care assistants rather than doctors or nurses but I still find this a bit worrying/surprising.
I really don't get it. Makes me very angry if we have a vaccine available and can't make this bloody virus go away because people who need it turn it down.
If people don't want to have it, there's a simple solution - just punt them to priority group 11? after 18-50 yr olds that do want it but are otherwise last
But the thing is these people are being offered it because they work where they can be key superspreaders. It isn't for their personal benefit they're being offered it and it's bloody reckless to continue in the job without a vaccine if one has been offered.0 -
Got it. So because Blair its only prudent for Johnson to destroy what is left. Will look great on the side of a bus parked outside the Nissan plant after the last shift. "TONY BLAIR SHUT YOUR FACTORY"Alanbrooke said:
the crocodile tears for manufacturing come from the people who when Blair butchered our manufacturing sector cheer led the efforts because we were all going to be a service economy with fantastic financial services paying the bills. That went well.RochdalePioneers said:
So when a few years down the line we have seen all major pan-European manufacturing like automotive transferred from the UK into the EU will you be claiming that its all due to global factors and nothing to do with Brexit?Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
If we end up with no deal or a trade barriers deal we are going to be a unique experiment. What happens when you have a globalised industry and supply chain and voluntarily decide to impose barriers to trade? Does industry suck it up, respect the mandate, whistle Rule Britannia etc? Or relocate to a market where they don't have barriers to trade in the way that globalised industry has been doing for decades?
Would be a good time for a Brexity industrialist to be investing here in production. Get the great British brands made in Britain and exported cheaply thanks to our devalued currency. Or it would be if they weren't busy building their factories in foreign places that won't have the same barriers to trade as Britain does.
If you give a shit about UK manufacturing Im afraid you're about 15 years too late.0 -
Its not making a bad situation worse yet. In the absence of a FTA it might.Gardenwalker said:
You fully accept that Brexit is making a bad situation worse but just don’t want it reported as such.DavidL said:
The evidence is that there have been serious disruptions in trade flows around the globe as a result of difficulties in production, difficulties in transportation and various regimes designed to stop the spread of Covid. Businesses which largely operate on a just in time basis are particularly badly affected.IanB2 said:
There is some evidence of stockpiling in anticipation of post-no-deal shortages: this is affecting some building supplies and also feeding through to stocks in DIY stores. This would be because of fear of a no-deal Brexit.DavidL said:
Of course it is. How could a shortage of parts now have anything to do with Brexit when we are still operating under the transitional arrangements? The world economy has suffered disruption. This is a consequence.JohnLilburne said:
According to the BBC this is due to corona, not BrexitRochdalePioneers said:
This simply isn't true. What would Honda and the logistics companies who supply Honda know about it? There won't be any significant disruption. And because there may be significant disruption can't they simply tear up their global business plan and start stockpiling parts that haven't yet been manufactured in warehouses that don't exist? What do you mean no? Bloody remoaners.Scott_xP said:
It is just dishonest to claim anything else. But nothing will stop the hyperbole and hysteria.
Whether having stuff Amazoned to us directly will work as well after 1 January, who can say?
I fully accept that it is a legitimate point that such a scenario is somewhat less than optimal when looking to materially change your import and export arrangements with some of your larger customers/suppliers. This is especially so when we don't know what the new arrangements are going to be in 3 weeks time because of the failure to agree a deal. But that is not the way this is being presented and it is just dishonest/meaningless.
OK.0 -
Good morning all you, sending you best wishes for the day.2
-
Not really.MarqueeMark said:
There's always a reason to blame Brexit, against rational alternative explanations.Gardenwalker said:
There’s always a reason it’s not Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
Funny that.
Funny that.
It is clear to anyone with the most primitive understanding of economics that exiting the single market is going to damage manufacturing.
Even “Brexit economist” Patrick Minford understands this, although he sees it as a merit.
Any business is going to think twice about their investment decisions when the underlying business model changes.
There’s always a “rational” alternative explanation of course. See also Piers Corbyn, David Icke, Uri Geller, Phillip Thompson etc.0 -
Added not least to the fact that the Blair approach to manafacturing was purely the result of the Thatcherite consensus of the time.RochdalePioneers said:
Got it. So because Blair its only prudent for Johnson to destroy what is left. Will look great on the side of a bus parked outside the Nissan plant after the last shift. "TONY BLAIR SHUT YOUR FACTORY"Alanbrooke said:
the crocodile tears for manufacturing come from the people who when Blair butchered our manufacturing sector cheer led the efforts because we were all going to be a service economy with fantastic financial services paying the bills. That went well.RochdalePioneers said:
So when a few years down the line we have seen all major pan-European manufacturing like automotive transferred from the UK into the EU will you be claiming that its all due to global factors and nothing to do with Brexit?Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
If we end up with no deal or a trade barriers deal we are going to be a unique experiment. What happens when you have a globalised industry and supply chain and voluntarily decide to impose barriers to trade? Does industry suck it up, respect the mandate, whistle Rule Britannia etc? Or relocate to a market where they don't have barriers to trade in the way that globalised industry has been doing for decades?
Would be a good time for a Brexity industrialist to be investing here in production. Get the great British brands made in Britain and exported cheaply thanks to our devalued currency. Or it would be if they weren't busy building their factories in foreign places that won't have the same barriers to trade as Britain does.
If you give a shit about UK manufacturing Im afraid you're about 15 years too late.0 -
Danny fink's article in the Times makes the same pointIanB2 said:Autonomy from EU rules affords some leeway to subsidise industry, but most Tories are ideologically repelled by the idea of government picking economic winners. The Eurosceptic instinct tends the other way, applying market forces as the remedy to any malaise, cutting taxes and regulation to purge the body politic of state-induced lethargy. Strategists in Downing Street know that such medicine would be poison to voters in former Labour strongholds that make up the prime minister’s new power base.
The politics of Brexit (small state free marketers) is in direct conflict with the economics of Brexit (high public spending and picking winners)
This is a key reason why the project is, and always was, doomed.
There is no way to square the circle.2 -
I agree. I would be minded to suspend them until the majority of their more vulnerable clients are immune.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sure that they will be punted and the vaccine will go to someone else if they do refuse.Pulpstar said:
Nothing worse than people near the front of the queue whinging that they don't want the vaccine.Philip_Thompson said:
My wife was given paperwork yesterday to get her vaccine and she said most of her colleagues said they don't want it.IanB2 said:
From all the media coverage, the main takeaway is the good news that we have a vaccine, the second takeaway is that this has been achieved in a fraction of the time normally devoted to development and testing. This latter point is bound to make some people nervous.Foxy said:
Yes, similar vibes in our staff break room. Mostly HCAs and admin, but often intelligent folk otherwise.paulyork64 said:Vaccine anecdote. My wife was talking with co-workers in the staff room yesterday and 3 out the 4 said they didnt want the vaccine. All were health care assistants rather than doctors or nurses but I still find this a bit worrying/surprising.
I really don't get it. Makes me very angry if we have a vaccine available and can't make this bloody virus go away because people who need it turn it down.
If people don't want to have it, there's a simple solution - just punt them to priority group 11? after 18-50 yr olds that do want it but are otherwise last
But the thing is these people are being offered it because they work where they can be key superspreaders. It isn't for their personal benefit they're being offered it and it's bloody reckless to continue in the job without a vaccine if one has been offered.2 -
How was it a con? Boris, Gove etc made free trade arguments for Brexit. Farage made protectionist arguments.Foxy said:
Did we?JohnLilburne said:
Excellent news. We left the EU precisely so we could be less protectionist.Scott_xP said:There is a report this morning that the UK will suspend tariffs against Boeing that the EU introduced to protect Airbus
How long can Airbus keep the UK factory open under those circumstances?
I find that free trading Brexiteers are far outnumbered by those wanting protectionist measures for British jobs and industry.
Now it is possible that the free traders conned the protectionists, but I suspect that the latter will prevail because that is where the voters are.
Boris, Gove and co are in office. Farage is in a dinghy chasing migrants with an iPhone.0 -
And driving round all the Red Wall seats come the next election.RochdalePioneers said:
Got it. So because Blair its only prudent for Johnson to destroy what is left. Will look great on the side of a bus parked outside the Nissan plant after the last shift. "TONY BLAIR SHUT YOUR FACTORY"Alanbrooke said:
the crocodile tears for manufacturing come from the people who when Blair butchered our manufacturing sector cheer led the efforts because we were all going to be a service economy with fantastic financial services paying the bills. That went well.RochdalePioneers said:
So when a few years down the line we have seen all major pan-European manufacturing like automotive transferred from the UK into the EU will you be claiming that its all due to global factors and nothing to do with Brexit?Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
If we end up with no deal or a trade barriers deal we are going to be a unique experiment. What happens when you have a globalised industry and supply chain and voluntarily decide to impose barriers to trade? Does industry suck it up, respect the mandate, whistle Rule Britannia etc? Or relocate to a market where they don't have barriers to trade in the way that globalised industry has been doing for decades?
Would be a good time for a Brexity industrialist to be investing here in production. Get the great British brands made in Britain and exported cheaply thanks to our devalued currency. Or it would be if they weren't busy building their factories in foreign places that won't have the same barriers to trade as Britain does.
If you give a shit about UK manufacturing Im afraid you're about 15 years too late.0 -
Someone broke your nose fifteen years ago, so it's now irrelevant if someone else breaks your arms and neck?Alanbrooke said:
the crocodile tears for manufacturing come from the people who when Blair butchered our manufacturing sector cheer led the efforts because we were all going to be a service economy with fantastic financial services paying the bills. That went well.RochdalePioneers said:
So when a few years down the line we have seen all major pan-European manufacturing like automotive transferred from the UK into the EU will you be claiming that its all due to global factors and nothing to do with Brexit?Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
If we end up with no deal or a trade barriers deal we are going to be a unique experiment. What happens when you have a globalised industry and supply chain and voluntarily decide to impose barriers to trade? Does industry suck it up, respect the mandate, whistle Rule Britannia etc? Or relocate to a market where they don't have barriers to trade in the way that globalised industry has been doing for decades?
Would be a good time for a Brexity industrialist to be investing here in production. Get the great British brands made in Britain and exported cheaply thanks to our devalued currency. Or it would be if they weren't busy building their factories in foreign places that won't have the same barriers to trade as Britain does.
If you give a shit about UK manufacturing Im afraid you're about 15 years too late.1 -
The BBC is reporting, and logistics experts on this Board are confirming, that Brexit uncertainty is compounding and worsening the underlying logistics problem.DavidL said:
Its not making a bad situation worse yet. In the absence of a FTA it might.Gardenwalker said:
You fully accept that Brexit is making a bad situation worse but just don’t want it reported as such.DavidL said:
The evidence is that there have been serious disruptions in trade flows around the globe as a result of difficulties in production, difficulties in transportation and various regimes designed to stop the spread of Covid. Businesses which largely operate on a just in time basis are particularly badly affected.IanB2 said:
There is some evidence of stockpiling in anticipation of post-no-deal shortages: this is affecting some building supplies and also feeding through to stocks in DIY stores. This would be because of fear of a no-deal Brexit.DavidL said:
Of course it is. How could a shortage of parts now have anything to do with Brexit when we are still operating under the transitional arrangements? The world economy has suffered disruption. This is a consequence.JohnLilburne said:
According to the BBC this is due to corona, not BrexitRochdalePioneers said:
This simply isn't true. What would Honda and the logistics companies who supply Honda know about it? There won't be any significant disruption. And because there may be significant disruption can't they simply tear up their global business plan and start stockpiling parts that haven't yet been manufactured in warehouses that don't exist? What do you mean no? Bloody remoaners.Scott_xP said:
It is just dishonest to claim anything else. But nothing will stop the hyperbole and hysteria.
Whether having stuff Amazoned to us directly will work as well after 1 January, who can say?
I fully accept that it is a legitimate point that such a scenario is somewhat less than optimal when looking to materially change your import and export arrangements with some of your larger customers/suppliers. This is especially so when we don't know what the new arrangements are going to be in 3 weeks time because of the failure to agree a deal. But that is not the way this is being presented and it is just dishonest/meaningless.
OK.
So, you’re wrong.
Or you know more than those two sources.0 -
-
Yes, in hs devotion to Financial Services, shopping for tat and hamburger flipping, Blair truly was the heir to Thatcher.Alanbrooke said:
the crocodile tears for manufacturing come from the people who when Blair butchered our manufacturing sector cheer led the efforts because we were all going to be a service economy with fantastic financial services paying the bills. That went well.RochdalePioneers said:
So when a few years down the line we have seen all major pan-European manufacturing like automotive transferred from the UK into the EU will you be claiming that its all due to global factors and nothing to do with Brexit?Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
If we end up with no deal or a trade barriers deal we are going to be a unique experiment. What happens when you have a globalised industry and supply chain and voluntarily decide to impose barriers to trade? Does industry suck it up, respect the mandate, whistle Rule Britannia etc? Or relocate to a market where they don't have barriers to trade in the way that globalised industry has been doing for decades?
Would be a good time for a Brexity industrialist to be investing here in production. Get the great British brands made in Britain and exported cheaply thanks to our devalued currency. Or it would be if they weren't busy building their factories in foreign places that won't have the same barriers to trade as Britain does.
If you give a shit about UK manufacturing Im afraid you're about 15 years too late.4 -
There’s probably a psychiatric term for this kind of mindset. It was bad before, let’s make it worse now!RochdalePioneers said:
Got it. So because Blair its only prudent for Johnson to destroy what is left. Will look great on the side of a bus parked outside the Nissan plant after the last shift. "TONY BLAIR SHUT YOUR FACTORY"Alanbrooke said:
the crocodile tears for manufacturing come from the people who when Blair butchered our manufacturing sector cheer led the efforts because we were all going to be a service economy with fantastic financial services paying the bills. That went well.RochdalePioneers said:
So when a few years down the line we have seen all major pan-European manufacturing like automotive transferred from the UK into the EU will you be claiming that its all due to global factors and nothing to do with Brexit?Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
If we end up with no deal or a trade barriers deal we are going to be a unique experiment. What happens when you have a globalised industry and supply chain and voluntarily decide to impose barriers to trade? Does industry suck it up, respect the mandate, whistle Rule Britannia etc? Or relocate to a market where they don't have barriers to trade in the way that globalised industry has been doing for decades?
Would be a good time for a Brexity industrialist to be investing here in production. Get the great British brands made in Britain and exported cheaply thanks to our devalued currency. Or it would be if they weren't busy building their factories in foreign places that won't have the same barriers to trade as Britain does.
If you give a shit about UK manufacturing Im afraid you're about 15 years too late.0 -
Stupid Byzantine organisation. Thank goodness we are leaving.CarlottaVance said:
If you want a negotiation to succeed get the key principles who can determine it into the room together.1 -
This was indeed a key mindset among a certain group of angry Brexit voters, as well. All these things indicate a country in major cultural and social crisis.Gardenwalker said:
There’s probably a psychiatric term for this kind of mindset. It was bad before, let’s make it worse now!RochdalePioneers said:
Got it. So because Blair its only prudent for Johnson to destroy what is left. Will look great on the side of a bus parked outside the Nissan plant after the last shift. "TONY BLAIR SHUT YOUR FACTORY"Alanbrooke said:
the crocodile tears for manufacturing come from the people who when Blair butchered our manufacturing sector cheer led the efforts because we were all going to be a service economy with fantastic financial services paying the bills. That went well.RochdalePioneers said:
So when a few years down the line we have seen all major pan-European manufacturing like automotive transferred from the UK into the EU will you be claiming that its all due to global factors and nothing to do with Brexit?Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
If we end up with no deal or a trade barriers deal we are going to be a unique experiment. What happens when you have a globalised industry and supply chain and voluntarily decide to impose barriers to trade? Does industry suck it up, respect the mandate, whistle Rule Britannia etc? Or relocate to a market where they don't have barriers to trade in the way that globalised industry has been doing for decades?
Would be a good time for a Brexity industrialist to be investing here in production. Get the great British brands made in Britain and exported cheaply thanks to our devalued currency. Or it would be if they weren't busy building their factories in foreign places that won't have the same barriers to trade as Britain does.
If you give a shit about UK manufacturing Im afraid you're about 15 years too late.0 -
Is it one D Cummings in a secret war room perhaps?Scott_xP said:0 -
Is there anyone in government that understands the problems? This group should have been set up in 2016 why wasn’t it? Complete failure of government they should be locked up in the tower for treason by ignorance and stupidity.Scott_xP said:3 -
Spanner by name , unionist by natureTheuniondivvie said:
Awks..TheScreamingEagles said:
Turns out it was fake news.TheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/BrianSpanner1/status/13364253736435261530 -
As I have said before, this is easily the worst government in my lifetime.nichomar said:
Is there anyone in government that understands the problems? This group should have been set up in 2016 why wasn’t it? Complete failure of government they should be locked up in the tower for treason by ignorance and stupidity.Scott_xP said:4 -
-
-
Gardenwalker said:
The BBC is reporting, and logistics experts on this Board are confirming, that Brexit uncertainty is compounding and worsening the underlying logistics problem.DavidL said:
Its not making a bad situation worse yet. In the absence of a FTA it might.Gardenwalker said:
You fully accept that Brexit is making a bad situation worse but just don’t want it reported as such.DavidL said:
The evidence is that there have been serious disruptions in trade flows around the globe as a result of difficulties in production, difficulties in transportation and various regimes designed to stop the spread of Covid. Businesses which largely operate on a just in time basis are particularly badly affected.IanB2 said:
There is some evidence of stockpiling in anticipation of post-no-deal shortages: this is affecting some building supplies and also feeding through to stocks in DIY stores. This would be because of fear of a no-deal Brexit.DavidL said:
Of course it is. How could a shortage of parts now have anything to do with Brexit when we are still operating under the transitional arrangements? The world economy has suffered disruption. This is a consequence.JohnLilburne said:
According to the BBC this is due to corona, not BrexitRochdalePioneers said:
This simply isn't true. What would Honda and the logistics companies who supply Honda know about it? There won't be any significant disruption. And because there may be significant disruption can't they simply tear up their global business plan and start stockpiling parts that haven't yet been manufactured in warehouses that don't exist? What do you mean no? Bloody remoaners.Scott_xP said:
It is just dishonest to claim anything else. But nothing will stop the hyperbole and hysteria.
Whether having stuff Amazoned to us directly will work as well after 1 January, who can say?
I fully accept that it is a legitimate point that such a scenario is somewhat less than optimal when looking to materially change your import and export arrangements with some of your larger customers/suppliers. This is especially so when we don't know what the new arrangements are going to be in 3 weeks time because of the failure to agree a deal. But that is not the way this is being presented and it is just dishonest/meaningless.
OK.
So, you’re wrong.
Or you know more than those two sources.
"Sebastien Rivera, secretary general of national hauliers federation FNTR, claimed that the British “are stocking up like never before” due to fears of levies and other administrative disruption after Dec 31. Hauliers travelling to and from the UK say they had not seen such volumes in 30 years."
Telegraph1 -
Lolz!Gardenwalker said:MarqueeMark said:
There's always a reason to blame Brexit, against rational alternative explanations.Gardenwalker said:
There’s always a reason it’s not Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
Funny that.
Funny that.
There’s always a “rational” alternative explanation of course. See also Piers Corbyn, David Icke, Uri Geller, Phillip Thompson etc.
Esteemed company for our resident troll. 0 -
Would be lovely if slimeball Gove was leading it.Scott_xP said:0 -
So don’t feed him please let him spout into a a vacuum for a day or two, he won’t notice because he has his hands in his pocket but it will be less frustrating on here.IanB2 said:
Lolz!Gardenwalker said:MarqueeMark said:
There's always a reason to blame Brexit, against rational alternative explanations.Gardenwalker said:
There’s always a reason it’s not Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
Funny that.
Funny that.
There’s always a “rational” alternative explanation of course. See also Piers Corbyn, David Icke, Uri Geller, Phillip Thompson etc. Esteemed company for our resident troll.0 -
More likely it is more of his bidey-in's chumsnoneoftheabove said:
Is it one D Cummings in a secret war room perhaps?Scott_xP said:0 -
Not sure it is irreversible either. Although it may take the complete defenestration of the ship of fools that have driven our craft onto these rocks.RochdalePioneers said:https://twitter.com/donnyc1975/status/1336574732712415233
To be fair I would expect Dover / Calais to be better organised than Terehova on the Russia / Latvia border. Then again we have a tad more vehicles crossing and its by sea not by land.
I'm sure it will all be fine...0 -
I have no idea how a subscale manufacturer making a single model with a ladder frame and beam axles intends to make money. The market for these things must be minute. 90% of people would be better off enjoying the B57/8 and 8HP powertrain in a BMW X5 from whence it came.Gardenwalker said:
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.0 -
I would sack them, 24 hours to reconsider and then unemployed.DavidL said:
I agree. I would be minded to suspend them until the majority of their more vulnerable clients are immune.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm sure that they will be punted and the vaccine will go to someone else if they do refuse.Pulpstar said:
Nothing worse than people near the front of the queue whinging that they don't want the vaccine.Philip_Thompson said:
My wife was given paperwork yesterday to get her vaccine and she said most of her colleagues said they don't want it.IanB2 said:
From all the media coverage, the main takeaway is the good news that we have a vaccine, the second takeaway is that this has been achieved in a fraction of the time normally devoted to development and testing. This latter point is bound to make some people nervous.Foxy said:
Yes, similar vibes in our staff break room. Mostly HCAs and admin, but often intelligent folk otherwise.paulyork64 said:Vaccine anecdote. My wife was talking with co-workers in the staff room yesterday and 3 out the 4 said they didnt want the vaccine. All were health care assistants rather than doctors or nurses but I still find this a bit worrying/surprising.
I really don't get it. Makes me very angry if we have a vaccine available and can't make this bloody virus go away because people who need it turn it down.
If people don't want to have it, there's a simple solution - just punt them to priority group 11? after 18-50 yr olds that do want it but are otherwise last
But the thing is these people are being offered it because they work where they can be key superspreaders. It isn't for their personal benefit they're being offered it and it's bloody reckless to continue in the job without a vaccine if one has been offered.1 -
Yes, these are mostly rational vaccine sceptics who are worried about the thoroughness of the testing. Did it include young people, old people, ill people? Was it long enough to reveal side effects? Not so much "I don't want the vaccine" but more "I don't want the vaccine just yet, but come back in six months or so".IanB2 said:
From all the media coverage, the main takeaway is the good news that we have a vaccine, the second takeaway is that this has been achieved in a fraction of the time normally devoted to development and testing. This latter point is bound to make some people nervous.Foxy said:
Yes, similar vibes in our staff break room. Mostly HCAs and admin, but often intelligent folk otherwise.paulyork64 said:Vaccine anecdote. My wife was talking with co-workers in the staff room yesterday and 3 out the 4 said they didnt want the vaccine. All were health care assistants rather than doctors or nurses but I still find this a bit worrying/surprising.
These groups should be susceptible to education campaigns. We should not lump them in with entirely irrational antivaxxers worried about 5G and mind-control.0 -
IDK, Boris is very ideologically flexible, maybe he can lead the breentry.rottenborough said:
Not sure it is irreversible either. Although it may take the complete defenestration of the ship of fools that have driven our craft onto these rocks.RochdalePioneers said:https://twitter.com/donnyc1975/status/1336574732712415233
To be fair I would expect Dover / Calais to be better organised than Terehova on the Russia / Latvia border. Then again we have a tad more vehicles crossing and its by sea not by land.
I'm sure it will all be fine...1 -
I work in manufacturing, most of what is being posted here is crap.RochdalePioneers said:
Got it. So because Blair its only prudent for Johnson to destroy what is left. Will look great on the side of a bus parked outside the Nissan plant after the last shift. "TONY BLAIR SHUT YOUR FACTORY"Alanbrooke said:
the crocodile tears for manufacturing come from the people who when Blair butchered our manufacturing sector cheer led the efforts because we were all going to be a service economy with fantastic financial services paying the bills. That went well.RochdalePioneers said:
So when a few years down the line we have seen all major pan-European manufacturing like automotive transferred from the UK into the EU will you be claiming that its all due to global factors and nothing to do with Brexit?Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
If we end up with no deal or a trade barriers deal we are going to be a unique experiment. What happens when you have a globalised industry and supply chain and voluntarily decide to impose barriers to trade? Does industry suck it up, respect the mandate, whistle Rule Britannia etc? Or relocate to a market where they don't have barriers to trade in the way that globalised industry has been doing for decades?
Would be a good time for a Brexity industrialist to be investing here in production. Get the great British brands made in Britain and exported cheaply thanks to our devalued currency. Or it would be if they weren't busy building their factories in foreign places that won't have the same barriers to trade as Britain does.
If you give a shit about UK manufacturing Im afraid you're about 15 years too late.
Stick to shopping0 -
The bigger issue was export of chilled processed meat from Ireland to the U.K. - anyone seen anything on that?Scott_xP said:0 -
Seems a fair point. No doubt we will see a lot of vaccine related reassurance messaging in new year.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yes, these are mostly rational vaccine sceptics who are worried about the thoroughness of the testing. Did it include young people, old people, ill people? Was it long enough to reveal side effects? Not so much "I don't want the vaccine" but more "I don't want the vaccine just yet, but come back in six months or so".IanB2 said:
From all the media coverage, the main takeaway is the good news that we have a vaccine, the second takeaway is that this has been achieved in a fraction of the time normally devoted to development and testing. This latter point is bound to make some people nervous.Foxy said:
Yes, similar vibes in our staff break room. Mostly HCAs and admin, but often intelligent folk otherwise.paulyork64 said:Vaccine anecdote. My wife was talking with co-workers in the staff room yesterday and 3 out the 4 said they didnt want the vaccine. All were health care assistants rather than doctors or nurses but I still find this a bit worrying/surprising.
These groups should be susceptible to education campaigns. We should not lump them in with entirely irrational antivaxxers worried about 5G and mind-control.
I had discussion with my wife last night about mRNA vs Oxford.0 -
Has anyone looked at the difference between vaccinating twice as many people with a single dose of the vaccine vs giving half as many people 2 doses?0
-
It should also influence this group as other countries and even the EU (eventually) approve this vaccine around the world. That process has only just started of course.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yes, these are mostly rational vaccine sceptics who are worried about the thoroughness of the testing. Did it include young people, old people, ill people? Was it long enough to reveal side effects? Not so much "I don't want the vaccine" but more "I don't want the vaccine just yet, but come back in six months or so".IanB2 said:
From all the media coverage, the main takeaway is the good news that we have a vaccine, the second takeaway is that this has been achieved in a fraction of the time normally devoted to development and testing. This latter point is bound to make some people nervous.Foxy said:
Yes, similar vibes in our staff break room. Mostly HCAs and admin, but often intelligent folk otherwise.paulyork64 said:Vaccine anecdote. My wife was talking with co-workers in the staff room yesterday and 3 out the 4 said they didnt want the vaccine. All were health care assistants rather than doctors or nurses but I still find this a bit worrying/surprising.
These groups should be susceptible to education campaigns. We should not lump them in with entirely irrational antivaxxers worried about 5G and mind-control.0 -
Sounds a bit "you don't know her, she goes to a different school".Scott_xP said:
With all politicians, the trick is to watch what you can see them doing, and ignore the conjouer's patter.0 -
The key principals include 27 Sovereign Parliaments, some regional assemblies, and the EU Parliament. All have to approve. It would need to be a big room.Philip_Thompson said:
Stupid Byzantine organisation. Thank goodness we are leaving.CarlottaVance said:
If you want a negotiation to succeed get the key principles who can determine it into the room together.
The reality is that Barnier is their chosen negotiator, and has always been consistent and open in his position, which is the one agreed by the wider group.
This is not a place for wheeler dealers, but rather for people good at detail. Not a very accurate resume of BoZo.3 -
No the bloke who chopped your legs of 15 years ago is now worried you can run marathonsIshmaelZ said:
Someone broke your nose fifteen years ago, so it's now irrelevant if someone else breaks your arms and neck?Alanbrooke said:
the crocodile tears for manufacturing come from the people who when Blair butchered our manufacturing sector cheer led the efforts because we were all going to be a service economy with fantastic financial services paying the bills. That went well.RochdalePioneers said:
So when a few years down the line we have seen all major pan-European manufacturing like automotive transferred from the UK into the EU will you be claiming that its all due to global factors and nothing to do with Brexit?Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
If we end up with no deal or a trade barriers deal we are going to be a unique experiment. What happens when you have a globalised industry and supply chain and voluntarily decide to impose barriers to trade? Does industry suck it up, respect the mandate, whistle Rule Britannia etc? Or relocate to a market where they don't have barriers to trade in the way that globalised industry has been doing for decades?
Would be a good time for a Brexity industrialist to be investing here in production. Get the great British brands made in Britain and exported cheaply thanks to our devalued currency. Or it would be if they weren't busy building their factories in foreign places that won't have the same barriers to trade as Britain does.
If you give a shit about UK manufacturing Im afraid you're about 15 years too late.1 -
Just catching up on the AZ vaccine paper. Looks very positive for the half/full dose, especially in relation to stopping asymptomatic spread. Surely the regulator approves it for under 55s and asks for the half/full trial to be rerun for a much wider group of people to get full usage approval. I don't see how they can approve it for over 55s given the lack of data for what looks like the best dosage mode.
If it does get under 55s approval it could actually be exactly what we need to get the economy up and running as the government would be forced to run simultaneous programmes for older people with the Pfizer vaccine and for under 55s with the AZ vaccine rather than have the latter group wait until April.0 -
Well, the vaccine is in the progress of Beta Testing as the medics try it out on the Care Homes first...DavidL said:
It should also influence this group as other countries and even the EU (eventually) approve this vaccine around the world. That process has only just started of course.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yes, these are mostly rational vaccine sceptics who are worried about the thoroughness of the testing. Did it include young people, old people, ill people? Was it long enough to reveal side effects? Not so much "I don't want the vaccine" but more "I don't want the vaccine just yet, but come back in six months or so".IanB2 said:
From all the media coverage, the main takeaway is the good news that we have a vaccine, the second takeaway is that this has been achieved in a fraction of the time normally devoted to development and testing. This latter point is bound to make some people nervous.Foxy said:
Yes, similar vibes in our staff break room. Mostly HCAs and admin, but often intelligent folk otherwise.paulyork64 said:Vaccine anecdote. My wife was talking with co-workers in the staff room yesterday and 3 out the 4 said they didnt want the vaccine. All were health care assistants rather than doctors or nurses but I still find this a bit worrying/surprising.
These groups should be susceptible to education campaigns. We should not lump them in with entirely irrational antivaxxers worried about 5G and mind-control.
As a software developer I have always disliked "Beta Testing" (i.e. throw it at the customers and see how it goes)...0 -
I think that's right. And fortunately those being offered the vaccine first will mostly be those at high risk from coronavirus, for whom the very real risk of death through infection should make it easier to make the decision against a theoretical, small and non-specific risk from vaccination. When we get to those with lower infection risk, millions will have been vaccinated and most will know someone who has been vaccinated (I don't think a lot of people will note that they might be getting a different vaccines - if one is widely used, fear of all will likely fall).Foxy said:
Some did, some didn't. It is the more toxic end of Facebook that does it. I stopped Facebook some years ago. It had shifted from being a fun way of staying in touch, to advertising spam and forwarded sub QAnon nonsense. I don't miss it. I still quite like Twitter and TikTok.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t think the vaccine should be compulsory.Foxy said:
Yes, similar vibes in our staff break room. Mostly HCAs and admin, but often intelligent folk otherwise.paulyork64 said:Vaccine anecdote. My wife was talking with co-workers in the staff room yesterday and 3 out the 4 said they didnt want the vaccine. All were health care assistants rather than doctors or nurses but I still find this a bit worrying/surprising.
But anti-vaxxers should go to hell.
I bet they all voted Brexit as well.
Its not so much anti-vaxxing as anxiety that the testing has been rushed. I expect they will be fine once the vaccine has been shown to be safe and effective. Not much uptake of the biweekly lateral flow testing either. People just don't want to do it.
The bigger problem is health service staff who have a small personal risk but a larger risk of killing others if not vaccinated. For them, I'm happy for vaccination to be mandatory unless there's a good, personal medical reason for not being vaccinated - without it they cannot do their jobs effectively (I have family who are nurses and friends/colleagues who are doctors, so I'm not saying this lightly - although they are all keen to be vaccinated).1 -
The sad truth is that it is the poisonous snakes in the SNP that are more likely to bring Murrell down than any opposing party. They know where the bodies are buried and they are incredibly vicious.CarlottaVance said:0 -
A central war room receiving all details to direct action? Sounds like #ClassicDom.Scott_xP said:0 -
It would require the suppleness of an American pole dancer tech guru to pull that one off. But if anyone can, BoJo can.edmundintokyo said:
IDK, Boris is very ideologically flexible, maybe he can lead the breentry.rottenborough said:
Not sure it is irreversible either. Although it may take the complete defenestration of the ship of fools that have driven our craft onto these rocks.RochdalePioneers said:https://twitter.com/donnyc1975/status/1336574732712415233
To be fair I would expect Dover / Calais to be better organised than Terehova on the Russia / Latvia border. Then again we have a tad more vehicles crossing and its by sea not by land.
I'm sure it will all be fine...
And if it's his best chance of staying in No 10, he will try.0 -
It won't, because fundamentally the EU have a problem (and an emotional reaction) to us doing anything differently from them. Look at the petulant reaction to us approving Pfizer early.CarlottaVance said:Doubt this will help:
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1336440891742040064?s=20
I fear it's not something they'll be able to work through in time to reach a practical deal, because they're too insecure - their prime goal is to deter other member states leaving, and try and bind Britain into them so it doesn't prove to be a credible alternative competitor in future.6 -
Indeed, and your earlier posts have exemplified that.Alanbrooke said:
I work in manufacturing, most of what is being posted here is crap.RochdalePioneers said:
Got it. So because Blair its only prudent for Johnson to destroy what is left. Will look great on the side of a bus parked outside the Nissan plant after the last shift. "TONY BLAIR SHUT YOUR FACTORY"Alanbrooke said:
the crocodile tears for manufacturing come from the people who when Blair butchered our manufacturing sector cheer led the efforts because we were all going to be a service economy with fantastic financial services paying the bills. That went well.RochdalePioneers said:
So when a few years down the line we have seen all major pan-European manufacturing like automotive transferred from the UK into the EU will you be claiming that its all due to global factors and nothing to do with Brexit?Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
If we end up with no deal or a trade barriers deal we are going to be a unique experiment. What happens when you have a globalised industry and supply chain and voluntarily decide to impose barriers to trade? Does industry suck it up, respect the mandate, whistle Rule Britannia etc? Or relocate to a market where they don't have barriers to trade in the way that globalised industry has been doing for decades?
Would be a good time for a Brexity industrialist to be investing here in production. Get the great British brands made in Britain and exported cheaply thanks to our devalued currency. Or it would be if they weren't busy building their factories in foreign places that won't have the same barriers to trade as Britain does.
If you give a shit about UK manufacturing Im afraid you're about 15 years too late.
Stick to shopping
Arriving at No Deal Brexit directly from Blair without stopping at Cameron, May, Johnson, or even Thatcher is like some sort of dystopian version of Mornington Crescent.2 -
Something we agree onFoxy said:
Yes, in hs devotion to Financial Services, shopping for tat and hamburger flipping, Blair truly was the heir to Thatcher.Alanbrooke said:
the crocodile tears for manufacturing come from the people who when Blair butchered our manufacturing sector cheer led the efforts because we were all going to be a service economy with fantastic financial services paying the bills. That went well.RochdalePioneers said:
So when a few years down the line we have seen all major pan-European manufacturing like automotive transferred from the UK into the EU will you be claiming that its all due to global factors and nothing to do with Brexit?Alanbrooke said:
Nissan cut back as part of a worldwide model reviewGardenwalker said:Honda and Ford have both announced UK plant closures in the past two years.
Nissan in 2019 ditched plans to build additional models in its Sunderland factory.
Ineos is building its new model 4x4 in France.
Mini will make its Countryman in Germany from 2023.
And this is just the top-of-the-iceberg stuff.
Ford is closing 6 plants in Europe
Ineos have been bribed by MB to take their biggest problem off their hands - it will be a disaster
Mini Contryman is produced in Austria and Netherlands atm
Really you know sod all about automotive.
If we end up with no deal or a trade barriers deal we are going to be a unique experiment. What happens when you have a globalised industry and supply chain and voluntarily decide to impose barriers to trade? Does industry suck it up, respect the mandate, whistle Rule Britannia etc? Or relocate to a market where they don't have barriers to trade in the way that globalised industry has been doing for decades?
Would be a good time for a Brexity industrialist to be investing here in production. Get the great British brands made in Britain and exported cheaply thanks to our devalued currency. Or it would be if they weren't busy building their factories in foreign places that won't have the same barriers to trade as Britain does.
If you give a shit about UK manufacturing Im afraid you're about 15 years too late.0 -
I am sure that the govt accountants will soon have it costed upkamski said:Has anyone looked at the difference between vaccinating twice as many people with a single dose of the vaccine vs giving half as many people 2 doses?
0 -
Two can play that game though: the Royal Navy can patrol our waters and eject any French fishermen who intrude. If they can't fish at all then Macron will have a big problem for his 2022 re-election campaign.CarlottaVance said:
This should be made clear to him.0 -
Can't be right. Must be London's fault somewhere.CarlottaVance said:
Go away and do it again until you get that result.....0 -
Britain wants to retain market privileges and still do things differently, simply because we think of ourselves as important. That was never going to work, and there was no moral reason known why they ever should have accepted it.Casino_Royale said:
It won't, because fundamentally the EU have a problem (and an emotional reaction) to us doing anything differently from them. Look at the petulant reaction to us approving Pfizer early.CarlottaVance said:Doubt this will help:
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1336440891742040064?s=20
I fear it's not something they'll be able to work through in time to reach a practical deal, because they're too insecure - their prime goal is to deter other member states leaving, and try and bind Britain into them so it doesn't prove to be a credible alternative competitor in future.1 -
-
Absolubtely not, you stick to the dosing regime as recommended/medical journaled.Beibheirli_C said:
I am sure that the govt accountants will soon have it costed upkamski said:Has anyone looked at the difference between vaccinating twice as many people with a single dose of the vaccine vs giving half as many people 2 doses?
0 -
Yes, I'm thinking of the vaccines already approved - did anyone check how much protection a single dose offers, and whether it is more effective to vaccinate twice as many people with some reduction in protection, given that there aren't enough doses for everyone?MaxPB said:
Yes, there's a J&J trial looking into exactly this, to see whether one or two doses are necessary.kamski said:Has anyone looked at the difference between vaccinating twice as many people with a single dose of the vaccine vs giving half as many people 2 doses?
0 -
I think Macron understands French politics better than you mateCasino_Royale said:
Two can play that game though: the Royal Navy can patrol our waters and eject any French fishermen who intrude. If they can't fish at all then Macron will have a big problem for his 2022 re-election campaign.CarlottaVance said:
This should be made clear to him.0 -
1
-
To some degree the Pfizer data that was sent to the MHRA and FDA has it but the approved dosage is two with a three week gap to reach the 90% efficacy. They'd need to run a new trial for a single dosage, it wouldn't be safe to widely roll it out without knowing. It's why the half/full dose regime from AZ might need another trial for approval on the over 55s as there isn't enough data. The rules on vaccine approval are very tight, for good reason too.kamski said:
Yes, I'm thinking of the vaccines already approved - did anyone check how much protection a single dose offers, and whether it is more effective to vaccinate twice as many people with some reduction in protection, given that there aren't enough doses for everyone?MaxPB said:
Yes, there's a J&J trial looking into exactly this, to see whether one or two doses are necessary.kamski said:Has anyone looked at the difference between vaccinating twice as many people with a single dose of the vaccine vs giving half as many people 2 doses?
1 -
Why should we move? We hold all the cards after all.Casino_Royale said:1
This discussion has been closed.