As time runs out in the Brexit transition YouGov has “Brexit Wrong” once again with a double digit l
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Hopefully there's something in tomorrow's statement for hospitality. There has been every statement so far.Cyclefree said:
As far as hospitality is concerned this is far worse than the first lockdown in March. Then such businesses got a grant to help tide them over. This time nothing. No chance of earning an income while they still have costs and there have been precious few profits from the summer to help tide them over.Anabobazina said:This Christmas gimmick is insane. Many areas will have to endure weeks in Tier 3 just to “pay for” this nonsense over Christmas. FFS.
All very well Sunak spending money to help the unemployed. But he’s part of a government whose policy on lockdown with inadequate support will inevitably increase unemployment and that’s before we get to whatever shocks Brexit causes.
And the knock on effects in areas where tourism, leisure and hospitality are a large part of the economy will be grim.
I see no reason to be optimistic about the economy at all.
Hopefully its enough.1 -
Anyway off to bed. Had a bad fall today and am bruised all over and a sore head. Will be black and blue tomorrow. A body to match my mood. Just marvellous.0
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Get well soon Cyclefree!5
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More Tory voters would have voted UKIP, the Tories would not have won a majority or as many seats from the LDs in the South West and the coalition would have continued with Cameron as PM and Clegg as Deputyisam said:How would the 2015 Election have gone if Cameron had not offered a referendum?
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OK. Osborne does something Cameron (would have) failed to do. He gets a modest majority. Corbyn resigns.Philip_Thompson said:
Considering he made clear he wouldn't seek a third term I'm curious how that would have gone?Mexicanpete said:
Cameron would have just won his third term. His first majority.isam said:How would the 2015 Election have gone if Cameron had not offered a referendum?
0 -
Interesting how low a bar Biden is setting on the Irish border issue: "we do not want a guarded border on the island of Ireland".
"A guarded border"?
I don't think the UK or anyone else has been suggesting that. Should be a rather easy bar to clear.2 -
Osborne would certainly have never won a majority if Cameron did not, he was Cameron without the charisma.Mexicanpete said:
OK. Osborne does something Cameron (would have) failed to do. He gets a modest majority. Corbyn resigns.Philip_Thompson said:
Considering he made clear he wouldn't seek a third term I'm curious how that would have gone?Mexicanpete said:
Cameron would have just won his third term. His first majority.isam said:How would the 2015 Election have gone if Cameron had not offered a referendum?
Boris would likely have beaten Osborne for the leadership anyway if Cameron had never won a majority when Cameron eventually went0 -
So you're saying that in the parallel universe the Tories will have done worse than they did in our real universe?Mexicanpete said:
OK. Osborne does something Cameron (would have) failed to do. He gets a modest majority. Corbyn resigns.Philip_Thompson said:
Considering he made clear he wouldn't seek a third term I'm curious how that would have gone?Mexicanpete said:
Cameron would have just won his third term. His first majority.isam said:How would the 2015 Election have gone if Cameron had not offered a referendum?
0 -
Philip_Thompson said:
Oh please. 🙏🏻Roger said:Starmer should say he reserves the right to put it to the people to rejoin at the first opportunity
It's important that he can batter Johnson with it for the next four years. The Red bus should be to Johnson what the poll tax was to Maggie.
That would be a real gift to Johnson if he did that!
Two million Brexiteers out of work and the EU thriving.....could easily happen. There's only so many camels you can trade with Saudi Arabia....0 -
P.S. Your are splitting imaginary hairs here!Philip_Thompson said:
Considering he made clear he wouldn't seek a third term I'm curious how that would have gone?Mexicanpete said:
Cameron would have just won his third term. His first majority.isam said:How would the 2015 Election have gone if Cameron had not offered a referendum?
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Don't forget we would have missed out GE2017. Besides which why would Red Wall Brexiteers switch from Labour when Brexit never existed, and Osborne is still under pressure from Peter Bone inside the party and Farage outside. Keep up!Philip_Thompson said:
So you're saying that in the parallel universe the Tories will have done worse than they did in our real universe?Mexicanpete said:
OK. Osborne does something Cameron (would have) failed to do. He gets a modest majority. Corbyn resigns.Philip_Thompson said:
Considering he made clear he wouldn't seek a third term I'm curious how that would have gone?Mexicanpete said:
Cameron would have just won his third term. His first majority.isam said:How would the 2015 Election have gone if Cameron had not offered a referendum?
1 -
Had 2015 produced another hung parliament rather than a Tory majority Ed Miliband would likely have stayed Labour leaderMexicanpete said:
Don't forget we would have missed out GE2017. Besides which why would Red Wall Brexiteers switch from Labour when Brexit never existed, and Osborne is still under pressure from Peter Bone inside the party and Farage outside. Keep up!Philip_Thompson said:
So you're saying that in the parallel universe the Tories will have done worse than they did in our real universe?Mexicanpete said:
OK. Osborne does something Cameron (would have) failed to do. He gets a modest majority. Corbyn resigns.Philip_Thompson said:
Considering he made clear he wouldn't seek a third term I'm curious how that would have gone?Mexicanpete said:
Cameron would have just won his third term. His first majority.isam said:How would the 2015 Election have gone if Cameron had not offered a referendum?
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You're positively salivating at the concept that your fellow citizens may be facing penury in your imagination, aren't you?Roger said:Philip_Thompson said:
Oh please. 🙏🏻Roger said:Starmer should say he reserves the right to put it to the people to rejoin at the first opportunity
It's important that he can batter Johnson with it for the next four years. The Red bus should be to Johnson what the poll tax was to Maggie.
That would be a real gift to Johnson if he did that!
Two million Brexiteers out of work and the EU thriving.....could easily happen. There's only so many camels you can trade with Saudi Arabia....2 -
Monbiot with one of the more interesting articles of late: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/24/brexit-capitalism
Not sure what to make of it all yet. The key line for me was
This reminded me of the evidence-free assertion that BLM is "cultural Marxism" (a phrase that's used by some as an antisemitic dogwhistle). By the same token, Farage is then a "cultural capitalist"?GeorgeMonbiot said:
The persistent trick of modern politics – that appears to fool us repeatedly – is to disguise economic and political interests as cultural movements.
Not sure that bit really speaks to me, but it's certainly an interesting view, the "capitalist civil war". It'll probably frustrate those people who have definitely bought into the culture-war side of Brexit as sidelining their earnestly held views. It's a bit too populist for me to really adopt it, but it's a lens I'll try to look through from time to time, and could be a useful addition.0 -
Boris Johnson would not have achieved such a profile without Brexit. He could well now be pole dancing in America with Ms. Arcuri in this parallel universe.HYUFD said:
Osborne would certainly have never won a majority if Cameron did not, he was Cameron without the charisma.Mexicanpete said:
OK. Osborne does something Cameron (would have) failed to do. He gets a modest majority. Corbyn resigns.Philip_Thompson said:
Considering he made clear he wouldn't seek a third term I'm curious how that would have gone?Mexicanpete said:
Cameron would have just won his third term. His first majority.isam said:How would the 2015 Election have gone if Cameron had not offered a referendum?
Boris would likely have beaten Osborne for the leadership anyway if Cameron had never won a majority when Cameron eventually went0 -
So we are down to PM May taking over after a decade of Cameron in office and heading for a general election earlier this year against a Labour still led by Ed Miliband and trying for the first Tory majority still since 1992 with Clegg remaining Deputy PM and Farage still snapping at their heels with no EU referendum ever having occurredMexicanpete said:
Boris Johnson would not have achieved such a profile without Brexit. He could well now be pole dancing in America with Ms. Arcuri in this parallel universe.HYUFD said:
Osborne would certainly have never won a majority if Cameron did not, he was Cameron without the charisma.Mexicanpete said:
OK. Osborne does something Cameron (would have) failed to do. He gets a modest majority. Corbyn resigns.Philip_Thompson said:
Considering he made clear he wouldn't seek a third term I'm curious how that would have gone?Mexicanpete said:
Cameron would have just won his third term. His first majority.isam said:How would the 2015 Election have gone if Cameron had not offered a referendum?
Boris would likely have beaten Osborne for the leadership anyway if Cameron had never won a majority when Cameron eventually went2 -
The Conservatives would love that. But Starmer will pick his own battles with the Conservatives, rather than fight on their chosen ground. Rather than following the disasterous 2019 playbook, Labour will fight on the same basis that they did pretty successfully (in the circumstances!) in 2017, namely to fend off Conservative attempts to frame the election in terms of Brexit which will be portrayed as a secondary issue. Labour will do no more than commit to seeking to improve on Johnson's deal to address some specific flaws.Roger said:Starmer should say he reserves the right to put it to the people to rejoin at the first opportunity
It's important that he can batter Johnson with it for the next four years. The Red bus should be to Johnson what the poll tax was to Maggie.0 -
Ooh, that would be interesting. Mrs May's ten point pre election poll lead, if it evaporated like it did in 2017 would give Ed at least a minority Government. Good thinking HYUFD.HYUFD said:
So we are down to PM May taking over after a decade of Cameron in office and heading for a general election earlier this year against a Labour still led by Ed Miliband and trying for the first Tory majority still since 1992 with Clegg remaining Deputy PM and Farage still snapping at their heels with no EU referendum ever having occurredMexicanpete said:
Boris Johnson would not have achieved such a profile without Brexit. He could well now be pole dancing in America with Ms. Arcuri in this parallel universe.HYUFD said:
Osborne would certainly have never won a majority if Cameron did not, he was Cameron without the charisma.Mexicanpete said:
OK. Osborne does something Cameron (would have) failed to do. He gets a modest majority. Corbyn resigns.Philip_Thompson said:
Considering he made clear he wouldn't seek a third term I'm curious how that would have gone?Mexicanpete said:
Cameron would have just won his third term. His first majority.isam said:How would the 2015 Election have gone if Cameron had not offered a referendum?
Boris would likely have beaten Osborne for the leadership anyway if Cameron had never won a majority when Cameron eventually went0 -
People can try and flannel it as much as they like, but it all comes down to FoM. Whoever allows it will loseWulfrun_Phil said:
The Conservatives would love that. But Starmer will pick his own battles with the Conservatives, rather than fight on their chosen ground. Rather than following the disasterous 2019 playbook, Labour will fight on the same basis that they did pretty successfully (in the circumstances!) in 2017, namely to fend off Conservative attempts to frame the election in terms of Brexit which will be portrayed as a secondary issue. Labour will do no more than commit to seeking to improve on Johnson's deal to address some specific flaws.Roger said:Starmer should say he reserves the right to put it to the people to rejoin at the first opportunity
It's important that he can batter Johnson with it for the next four years. The Red bus should be to Johnson what the poll tax was to Maggie.1 -
Biden appears to have just gained 30,000 votes in Pennsylvania after the result had already been certified.
He now has 3,492k per CNN map.
But certified result says he got 3.46m.
Surely they didn't certify before count was completed?
https://www.chicagotribune.com/election-2020/ct-nw-joe-biden-election-certification-20201124-eqlpfhcpbbh2xakuaofx22zi6q-story.html0 -
Entirely expected news Part 342
Joe Biden's picks for the top roles in his administration have been celebrated by centrist Democrats: they speak glowingly of the diversity and experience of the individuals, a group that includes veteran foreign policy experts, and accomplished women and people of colour.
Yet progressives feel cheated. They say they helped Mr Biden win, and now they have been shut out of power.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55057751
I'm sure there's no way the progressives would have blamed the centrists if Biden had lost, but seek to take the credit if he won.1 -
Re above post - CNN map now corrected, 30,000 votes just added for Biden in PA now removed.0
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STOP THE COUNT....MikeL said:Re above post - CNN map now corrected, 30,000 votes just added for Biden in PA now removed.
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It is disappointing, but it may also be that the AZ vaccines are efficacious in younger people, while not working so well with older ones. In which case, we just need to make sure our vaccination strategy reflects that.Nigelb said:If this is accurate, it is disappointing.
https://twitter.com/AndrewE_Dunn/status/13312791316952637440 -
One of the things I love about Britain is how we mix up imperial and metric.isam said:
I’d say most people agree with you, hence the polling.Anabobazina said:
Fair enough.isam said:
Once the deal is done or not is when most people will consider the leaving to be over I’d say.Anabobazina said:
We are out of Europe - we’ve left. How much more leaving do we have to do before we can say whether we like where we have gone?isam said:
That’s not the point at all. If you have booked but haven’t yet gone, and have suffered all the aggravation of people trying to stop you going as per the hypothetical scenario I set out, you are bound to get a fair percentage of people thinking booking it in the first place wasn’t worth the hassle.Richard_Nabavi said:
If you decide to go all the same, and when you get there you find that the resort isn't built, the beach is covered in sewage, you get nasty food poisoning and your insurance company refuses to pay up because you ignored the official advice, do you persist in blaming the travel agent for recommending cancellation?isam said:Of course people think Brexit is a bad idea; the filibustering by MPs from Jun 2016-Dec 2019 in order to try and stop it was bound to make people sick of it.
If I booked the holiday of a lifetime and the travel agent phoned me every other day afterward saying it was delayed/might be cancelled altogether/you’ll have to come back in and talk it over with us/just because you booked it doesn’t mean we have to let you go/the resort isn’t built/there’s a worldwide pandemic and we’re not insured, I think I’d wish I hadn’t bothered
My view is that I couldn’t care less about Brexit anymore - I’m bored of the whole thing and just want something - anything - sorted so we don’t need to hear about it anymore.
Yet I fear we will be in state of perjury for ever more, with hardcore Brexiteers arguing we have never left, and hardcore Remainers saying the battle goes on.
It’s fucking exhausting.
The hardcore Brexiteers are those who wanted to leave in the 90s over things that most of the public don’t really care about (metric system etc). Most people voted Leave because of Blair’s A8 accession policy, but those people have more on their plate now with the economic crisis caused by the pandemic, so they probably don’t care either now.
So, I think of myself as measured in kilos.
I think of longer distances as miles.
And shorter ones as centimetres and meters.
When it's hot, I think of the temperature in Farenheit
But when it's cold, I think in Centigrade.
Except when it's water, when I think always in Centigrade.
For the efficiency of vehicles, I always think in miles per gallon. And for energy storage, I prefer calories to joules.1 -
When I was a kid, I was a big fan of WW1 and WW2 warships, so I pretty much learnt the metric and imperial measurements for battleship gun calibres by heart. So, without Googling or using a calculating, I can tell you that:rcs1000 said:
One of the things I love about Britain is how we mix up imperial and metric.isam said:
I’d say most people agree with you, hence the polling.Anabobazina said:
Fair enough.isam said:
Once the deal is done or not is when most people will consider the leaving to be over I’d say.Anabobazina said:
We are out of Europe - we’ve left. How much more leaving do we have to do before we can say whether we like where we have gone?isam said:
That’s not the point at all. If you have booked but haven’t yet gone, and have suffered all the aggravation of people trying to stop you going as per the hypothetical scenario I set out, you are bound to get a fair percentage of people thinking booking it in the first place wasn’t worth the hassle.Richard_Nabavi said:
If you decide to go all the same, and when you get there you find that the resort isn't built, the beach is covered in sewage, you get nasty food poisoning and your insurance company refuses to pay up because you ignored the official advice, do you persist in blaming the travel agent for recommending cancellation?isam said:Of course people think Brexit is a bad idea; the filibustering by MPs from Jun 2016-Dec 2019 in order to try and stop it was bound to make people sick of it.
If I booked the holiday of a lifetime and the travel agent phoned me every other day afterward saying it was delayed/might be cancelled altogether/you’ll have to come back in and talk it over with us/just because you booked it doesn’t mean we have to let you go/the resort isn’t built/there’s a worldwide pandemic and we’re not insured, I think I’d wish I hadn’t bothered
My view is that I couldn’t care less about Brexit anymore - I’m bored of the whole thing and just want something - anything - sorted so we don’t need to hear about it anymore.
Yet I fear we will be in state of perjury for ever more, with hardcore Brexiteers arguing we have never left, and hardcore Remainers saying the battle goes on.
It’s fucking exhausting.
The hardcore Brexiteers are those who wanted to leave in the 90s over things that most of the public don’t really care about (metric system etc). Most people voted Leave because of Blair’s A8 accession policy, but those people have more on their plate now with the economic crisis caused by the pandemic, so they probably don’t care either now.
So, I think of myself as measured in kilos.
I think of longer distances as miles.
And shorter ones as centimetres and meters.
When it's hot, I think of the temperature in Farenheit
But when it's cold, I think in Centigrade.
Except when it's water, when I think always in Centigrade.
For the efficiency of vehicles, I always think in miles per gallon. And for energy storage, I prefer calories to joules.
18 inches = 457 mm
16 inches = 406 mm
15 inches = 381 mm
14 inches = 356 mm
13.5 inches = 343 mm
13 inches = 330 mm
12 inches = 305 mm
11 inches = 279 mm
10 inches = 250 mm
9.2 inches = 234 mm
8 inches = 203 mm
6 inches = 152 mm
5 inches = 127 mm
4.5 inches = 115 mm
4 inches = 102 mm
3 inches = 76 mm1 -
Or the reverse?kle4 said:Entirely expected news Part 342
Joe Biden's picks for the top roles in his administration have been celebrated by centrist Democrats: they speak glowingly of the diversity and experience of the individuals, a group that includes veteran foreign policy experts, and accomplished women and people of colour.
Yet progressives feel cheated. They say they helped Mr Biden win, and now they have been shut out of power.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55057751
I'm sure there's no way the progressives would have blamed the centrists if Biden had lost, but seek to take the credit if he won.0 -
One month to go to Christmas. Sainsbury's has already marked down its Christmas crackers; I guess people have not been buying them if they must spend Christmas alone.1
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2
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Can someone explain this to the president?
https://twitter.com/noahcrothman/status/1331441529802657793?s=211 -
It doesn't rhyme and it doesn't scan but that is really poetic. Lovely.rcs1000 said:
One of the things I love about Britain is how we mix up imperial and metric.isam said:
I’d say most people agree with you, hence the polling.Anabobazina said:
Fair enough.isam said:
Once the deal is done or not is when most people will consider the leaving to be over I’d say.Anabobazina said:
We are out of Europe - we’ve left. How much more leaving do we have to do before we can say whether we like where we have gone?isam said:
That’s not the point at all. If you have booked but haven’t yet gone, and have suffered all the aggravation of people trying to stop you going as per the hypothetical scenario I set out, you are bound to get a fair percentage of people thinking booking it in the first place wasn’t worth the hassle.Richard_Nabavi said:
If you decide to go all the same, and when you get there you find that the resort isn't built, the beach is covered in sewage, you get nasty food poisoning and your insurance company refuses to pay up because you ignored the official advice, do you persist in blaming the travel agent for recommending cancellation?isam said:Of course people think Brexit is a bad idea; the filibustering by MPs from Jun 2016-Dec 2019 in order to try and stop it was bound to make people sick of it.
If I booked the holiday of a lifetime and the travel agent phoned me every other day afterward saying it was delayed/might be cancelled altogether/you’ll have to come back in and talk it over with us/just because you booked it doesn’t mean we have to let you go/the resort isn’t built/there’s a worldwide pandemic and we’re not insured, I think I’d wish I hadn’t bothered
My view is that I couldn’t care less about Brexit anymore - I’m bored of the whole thing and just want something - anything - sorted so we don’t need to hear about it anymore.
Yet I fear we will be in state of perjury for ever more, with hardcore Brexiteers arguing we have never left, and hardcore Remainers saying the battle goes on.
It’s fucking exhausting.
The hardcore Brexiteers are those who wanted to leave in the 90s over things that most of the public don’t really care about (metric system etc). Most people voted Leave because of Blair’s A8 accession policy, but those people have more on their plate now with the economic crisis caused by the pandemic, so they probably don’t care either now.
So, I think of myself as measured in kilos.
I think of longer distances as miles.
And shorter ones as centimetres and meters.
When it's hot, I think of the temperature in Farenheit
But when it's cold, I think in Centigrade.
Except when it's water, when I think always in Centigrade.
For the efficiency of vehicles, I always think in miles per gallon. And for energy storage, I prefer calories to joules.
Good morning, everybody.0 -
Rule of 6 would have been tighter for the xmas I'll be atAnabobazina said:
Give an inch, take a mile?Philip_Thompson said:
The Christmas bubble idea seems to be much tighter than I expected. Seems quite moderate and reasonable to be frank - people would be doing this anyway!Anabobazina said:This Christmas gimmick is insane. Many areas will have to endure weeks in Tier 3 just to “pay for” this nonsense over Christmas. FFS.
Should have just been Rule of Six (and people would have then stretched that!)0 -
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!1 -
Aargh - have been awake since 4 am.
Again.
It’s still dark.
Even the sheep are asleep.
And the papers are full of nonsense about bloody Xmas.1 -
The UK was a lead choice for this factory. Tesla said that Brexit killed that.Philip_Thompson said:
And it still might be.Nigelb said:Apart from anything else, this could have been in the UK.
Tesla To Build Massive 100+ GWh Battery Plant At Giga Berlin
https://insideevs.com/news/456347/tesla-massive-100-gwh-battery-plant-germany/
Do you think if we'd voted Remain then cars wouldn't have been built in Germany anymore? 😕
This will be by far the largest battery plant on the planet for the next few years.
There have also been half a dozen Chinese and Korean plants announced - all on the continent; nothing here.2 -
Musk is the last person on earth who would be an ideologue regarding the UK's political choices. Just shows what a poor decision and implementation Brexit has beenNigelb said:
The UK was a lead choice for this factory. Tesla said that Brexit killed that.Philip_Thompson said:
And it still might be.Nigelb said:Apart from anything else, this could have been in the UK.
Tesla To Build Massive 100+ GWh Battery Plant At Giga Berlin
https://insideevs.com/news/456347/tesla-massive-100-gwh-battery-plant-germany/
Do you think if we'd voted Remain then cars wouldn't have been built in Germany anymore? 😕
This will be by far the largest battery plant on the planet for the next few years.
There have also been half a dozen Chinese and Korean plants announced - all on the continent; nothing here.0 -
If only they would release the figures for the UK and Brazil separately, this kind of thing would become clear and we wouldn't have to speculate. Merging results from two trials with different protocols is a nonsense.rcs1000 said:
It is disappointing, but it may also be that the AZ vaccines are efficacious in younger people, while not working so well with older ones. In which case, we just need to make sure our vaccination strategy reflects that.Nigelb said:If this is accurate, it is disappointing.
https://twitter.com/AndrewE_Dunn/status/1331279131695263744
And if only they would publish a confidence interval rather than just a (possibly misleading) headline efficacy rate.
The way the results have been published by press release has been bad for all the vaccines so far, but particularly bad for AstraZeneca/Oxford.1 -
If that is a hyperbolic way of asking if I have little regard for the future of Brexiteers you'd be correct. I do on the other hand have a lot of sympathy for those whose future the Brexiteers have blighted.Philip_Thompson said:
You're positively salivating at the concept that your fellow citizens may be facing penury in your imagination, aren't you?Roger said:Philip_Thompson said:
Oh please. 🙏🏻Roger said:Starmer should say he reserves the right to put it to the people to rejoin at the first opportunity
It's important that he can batter Johnson with it for the next four years. The Red bus should be to Johnson what the poll tax was to Maggie.
That would be a real gift to Johnson if he did that!
Two million Brexiteers out of work and the EU thriving.....could easily happen. There's only so many camels you can trade with Saudi Arabia....0 -
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!0 -
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!3 -
Unherd. LOL. The Spectator for the under 80s.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=210 -
Well aware, thanks.Philip_Thompson said:
Are you new to the concept of de jure versus de facto?Nigelb said:
We have left, as a matter of law.Philip_Thompson said:
We haven't really though. We're still following all their rules as it stands.Anabobazina said:
We are out of Europe - we’ve left. How much more leaving do we have to do before we can say whether we like where we have gone?isam said:
That’s not the point at all. If you have booked but haven’t yet gone, and have suffered all the aggravation of people trying to stop you going as per the hypothetical scenario I set out, you are bound to get a fair percentage of people thinking booking it in the first place wasn’t worth the hassle.Richard_Nabavi said:
If you decide to go all the same, and when you get there you find that the resort isn't built, the beach is covered in sewage, you get nasty food poisoning and your insurance company refuses to pay up because you ignored the official advice, do you persist in blaming the travel agent for recommending cancellation?isam said:Of course people think Brexit is a bad idea; the filibustering by MPs from Jun 2016-Dec 2019 in order to try and stop it was bound to make people sick of it.
If I booked the holiday of a lifetime and the travel agent phoned me every other day afterward saying it was delayed/might be cancelled altogether/you’ll have to come back in and talk it over with us/just because you booked it doesn’t mean we have to let you go/the resort isn’t built/there’s a worldwide pandemic and we’re not insured, I think I’d wish I hadn’t bothered
Its like being in a house-share and giving notice that you're quitting so you cease to be a tenant with the rest of your housemates, only to say to your former house mates that since you have nowhere to live and they have a spare home would they mind if you sublet that room for a year?
Is that really leaving?
And four years after the vote you’re still trading meaningless metaphors.
We have left de jure but we have not left de facto - that is about the only thing that @Richard_Nabavi and I agree on I believe.
De facto we have left.
Thanks to May, of course, we set the clock ticking on that before discussions on our future relationship with the EU, which is why we are outside the EU without any agreed arrangements. for what happens after the end of this year.0 -
0
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Where would we be without our regular pre-Xmas whingefest about Brexit/Boris/Bingeing/Boozing Brits anoying all those right thinking migrant bashing French/Poles/Hungarians/Slovaks...across the water0
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This is Republican News, reporting live from Rome on the Ides of March.
Today, there were angry scenes at Betfair’s Forum Office as they refused to settle the market on ‘Julius Caesar to be King of Rome.’
Betfair’s primus, in a written statement that he prudently carved on stone before passing through the smallest possible crack in the gates, said, ‘Obviously recent events have been a setback to Mr. Caesar’s career. However, he has defied predictions to mount successful comebacks before, so we’re not going to pay out until he’s been safely dead, burned, buried and preferably encased in white marble for at least three months.’
Praefectus Denarii, who functioned as Caesar’s deputy, refused to comment. However, many in the crowd threatened actual violence.
‘I have ten thousand sesterces locked up in this market, because I knew the a Senate would act before they let him be King,’ said one enraged punter. ‘If they don’t settle soon I’ll give them what I, umm, they gave Caesar.’2 -
Frankly, given some of the columnists and others the Guardian has seen fit to print over the years - Seamus Milne, for instance, or various Islamist sympathisers or Steve Bell - she’s better off out of it. It long ago turned its back on the “Comment is free, facts are sacred” mantra.ydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
Feminists - like Jews - are realising that they are only valued by some parts of the illiberal Left for as long as they are a useful victim. When that stops being the case - either because some other more “deserving victim group” comes along or because they speak for themselves and don’t (the horror!) agree with whatever received opinion thinks - they get ditched and turned on. Both Left and Right fall all too easily into a “Women: know your place” mindset.5 -
Sorry to hear about your fall Cyclefree. Hope you feel better soon.Cyclefree said:
Frankly, given some of the columnists and others the Guardian has seen fit to print over the years - Seamus Milne, for instance, or various Islamist sympathisers or Steve Bell - she’s better off out of it. It long ago turned its back on the “Comment is free, facts are sacred” mantra.ydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
Feminists - like Jews - are realising that they are only valued by some parts of the illiberal Left for as long as they are a useful victim. When that stops being the case - either because some other more “deserving victim group” comes along or because they speak for themselves and don’t (the horror!) agree with whatever received opinion thinks - they get ditched and turned on. Both Left and Right fall all too easily into a “Women: know your place” mindset.4 -
Not at all. She's a freelance for the Guardian. She hasn't 'left' them. She can write for whoever chooses to give her a call. The Guardian has some fantastic journalists and some crap ones. I'm not really interested in who shares Ms Moore's political views. If the Telegraph wants to buy her articles good luck to both of them. I''m not a fan so I can't see myself breaching the paywall to get to either of themydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!0 -
Exhibit #1332234 of why elections are won from the centre
https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/13314836366134599693 -
And therein lies the problem.Roger said:
Not at all. She's a freelance for the Guardian. She hasn't 'left' them. She can write for whoever chooses to give her a call. The Guardian has some fantastic journalists and some crap ones. I'm not really interested in who shares Ms Moore's political views. If the Telegraph wants to buy her articles good luck to both of them. I''m not a fan so I can't see myself breaching the paywall to get to either of themydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!1 -
Especially if you’d been sold the holiday on the basis that it was the greatest and easiest deal in history that would preserve and enhance all the benefits of the holidays you’d had before?isam said:Of course people think Brexit is a bad idea; the filibustering by MPs from Jun 2016-Dec 2019 in order to try and stop it was bound to make people sick of it, and what with Covid it barely seems that important anyway - most people wanted less immigration and that’s now taken care of to an extent
If I booked the holiday of a lifetime and the travel agent phoned me every other day afterward saying it was delayed/might be cancelled altogether/you’ll have to come back in and talk it over with us/just because you booked it doesn’t mean we have to let you go/the resort isn’t built/there’s a worldwide pandemic and we’re not insured, I think I’d wish I hadn’t bothered1 -
Morning everybody.Cyclefree said:
Frankly, given some of the columnists and others the Guardian has seen fit to print over the years - Seamus Milne, for instance, or various Islamist sympathisers or Steve Bell - she’s better off out of it. It long ago turned its back on the “Comment is free, facts are sacred” mantra.ydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
Feminists - like Jews - are realising that they are only valued by some parts of the illiberal Left for as long as they are a useful victim. When that stops being the case - either because some other more “deserving victim group” comes along or because they speak for themselves and don’t (the horror!) agree with whatever received opinion thinks - they get ditched and turned on. Both Left and Right fall all too easily into a “Women: know your place” mindset.
You're not feeling much happier this morning, then Ms Cyclefree! Are you over the fall I skim read about as I glanced through Pb?0 -
I’m just quoting this one because the early bird PB’ers shouldn’t miss it.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'm glad you think so, but I hate to tell you that for all practical purposes Brexit hasn't started yet. We are still in the Customs Union. We are still in the Single Market. We still follow EU regulations. We still have freedom of movement. We are still in the EU VAT scheme, We are still following EU state aid rules. We are still subject to ECJ rules. The Boris border in the Irish sea doesn't exist yet. The crisis over the Irish protocol hasn't started. No customs checks are being done in Dover. EU fishermen can still fish in British waters. UK fishermen can still land their catches in EU ports. The EU chemicals regulations still allow industry to operate. There are no tariffs. There are no vet certificates required for selling lamb to EU countries.Philip_Thompson said:
Don't be ridiculous Mr Nabavi.Richard_Nabavi said:I don't think that there is a single person on this earth, not one, who in 2016 thought that Brexit would be implemented in anything like as disastrous a fashion as seems likely to happen on Jan 1st.
Brexit has gone much better than you were claiming it would in 2016.
All that will disappear overnight on Dec 31st.
And there are no working computer systems, no customs agents in place, no detailed administrative processes established, nowhere for the lorries to wait, no vets to fill in the forms, and companies are completely unprepared for the change - unsurprisingly, because not only are they kiboshed by a global pandemic, but even more importantly they don't have a clue what is going to be required in 8 weeks time, or what tariffs will apply, or what forms they will have to fill in.
There has never, in living memory, been a self-inflicted disaster on this scale. It is absolutely staggering - far, far worse than the worst scenarios anyone was contemplating in 2016.
The government must be hoping for some other big story to take our attention away from it.0 -
There’s definitely a lot of analysis to come about why the Dems did so poorly in the down-ticket races, even if this particular example was always very safe anyway.Pulpstar said:Exhibit #1332234 of why elections are won from the centre
https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1331483636613459969
At first glance, it does appear that the more left-wing House members have done badly compared to the moderate Democrats, even if most of them are in safe urban seats so not actually at risk.2 -
The problem is not spotting a journalist scornedydoethur said:
And therein lies the problem.Roger said:
Not at all. She's a freelance for the Guardian. She hasn't 'left' them. She can write for whoever chooses to give her a call. The Guardian has some fantastic journalists and some crap ones. I'm not really interested in who shares Ms Moore's political views. If the Telegraph wants to buy her articles good luck to both of them. I''m not a fan so I can't see myself breaching the paywall to get to either of themydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!0 -
For her views...which she is entitled to, and was trying to publish at a newspaper which claims ‘comment is free.’Roger said:
The problem is not spotting a journalist scornedydoethur said:
And therein lies the problem.Roger said:
Not at all. She's a freelance for the Guardian. She hasn't 'left' them. She can write for whoever chooses to give her a call. The Guardian has some fantastic journalists and some crap ones. I'm not really interested in who shares Ms Moore's political views. If the Telegraph wants to buy her articles good luck to both of them. I''m not a fan so I can't see myself breaching the paywall to get to either of themydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!2 -
Brexit is great news for Irish nationalists. As GB > NI food traffic will no longer be economically viable the Republic gets to reverse the current dominance of big UK suppliers / retailers in the north and instead start importing from the south.CarlottaVance said:More detail on the Sausage War:
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1123/1180052-connelly-brexit-latest/
One official familiar with the issue said: "It’s becoming clearer that this would be a two-way thing.
"If the ban [on such foods entering Northern Ireland] is a consequence of EU law, and the Brits are going to say, we're going to apply the same rules in the opposite direction - which people would say was reasonable.0 -
Indeed, a newspaper that values diversity of thought in its columns.Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!2 -
You really don’t understand, do you?Philip_Thompson said:Interesting how low a bar Biden is setting on the Irish border issue: "we do not want a guarded border on the island of Ireland".
"A guarded border"?
I don't think the UK or anyone else has been suggesting that. Should be a rather easy bar to clear.0 -
Cant you at least try to make it sound bad?HYUFD said:
So we are down to PM May taking over after a decade of Cameron in office and heading for a general election earlier this year against a Labour still led by Ed Miliband and trying for the first Tory majority still since 1992 with Clegg remaining Deputy PM and Farage still snapping at their heels with no EU referendum ever having occurredMexicanpete said:
Boris Johnson would not have achieved such a profile without Brexit. He could well now be pole dancing in America with Ms. Arcuri in this parallel universe.HYUFD said:
Osborne would certainly have never won a majority if Cameron did not, he was Cameron without the charisma.Mexicanpete said:
OK. Osborne does something Cameron (would have) failed to do. He gets a modest majority. Corbyn resigns.Philip_Thompson said:
Considering he made clear he wouldn't seek a third term I'm curious how that would have gone?Mexicanpete said:
Cameron would have just won his third term. His first majority.isam said:How would the 2015 Election have gone if Cameron had not offered a referendum?
Boris would likely have beaten Osborne for the leadership anyway if Cameron had never won a majority when Cameron eventually went0 -
It's another illustration of the fact that we need a serious analysis of the data on all three vaccines before we jump to conclusions. I expect we'll get it - it's not especially time-consuming to for say three statisticians to spend a week going through the data and spotting things like this. But we need to avoid politicians of any variety plumping for one or another solution before it's done.rcs1000 said:
It is disappointing, but it may also be that the AZ vaccines are efficacious in younger people, while not working so well with older ones. In which case, we just need to make sure our vaccination strategy reflects that.Nigelb said:If this is accurate, it is disappointing.
https://twitter.com/AndrewE_Dunn/status/13312791316952637442 -
Why are you surprised - he happily looked the other way when Corbyn was running an anti-semitic Labour party and cheerfully ignores the French clearing out migrant camps in Paris. Moore is on the wrong side of the plat du jour and can therefore be cancelled.ydoethur said:
And therein lies the problem.Roger said:
Not at all. She's a freelance for the Guardian. She hasn't 'left' them. She can write for whoever chooses to give her a call. The Guardian has some fantastic journalists and some crap ones. I'm not really interested in who shares Ms Moore's political views. If the Telegraph wants to buy her articles good luck to both of them. I''m not a fan so I can't see myself breaching the paywall to get to either of themydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!2 -
Nothing like a load of sweeping generalisations to wake you up in the morning!Cyclefree said:
Frankly, given some of the columnists and others the Guardian has seen fit to print over the years - Seamus Milne, for instance, or various Islamist sympathisers or Steve Bell - she’s better off out of it. It long ago turned its back on the “Comment is free, facts are sacred” mantra.ydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
Feminists - like Jews - are realising that they are only valued by some parts of the illiberal Left for as long as they are a useful victim. When that stops being the case - either because some other more “deserving victim group” comes along or because they speak for themselves and don’t (the horror!) agree with whatever received opinion thinks - they get ditched and turned on. Both Left and Right fall all too easily into a “Women: know your place” mindset.
0 -
Don't worry - the chaos won't last long. We can't start doing border checks as the government still insists we will be doing in 36 days due to the lack of a computer / staff / facilities. The inability of vehicles to move through Kent (c.f. yesterday's small scale French test) and the inability to transit across the UK border will quickly have the plug pulled on the whole thing. It just isn't workable.IanB2 said:
I’m just quoting this one because the early bird PB’ers shouldn’t miss it.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'm glad you think so, but I hate to tell you that for all practical purposes Brexit hasn't started yet. We are still in the Customs Union. We are still in the Single Market. We still follow EU regulations. We still have freedom of movement. We are still in the EU VAT scheme, We are still following EU state aid rules. We are still subject to ECJ rules. The Boris border in the Irish sea doesn't exist yet. The crisis over the Irish protocol hasn't started. No customs checks are being done in Dover. EU fishermen can still fish in British waters. UK fishermen can still land their catches in EU ports. The EU chemicals regulations still allow industry to operate. There are no tariffs. There are no vet certificates required for selling lamb to EU countries.Philip_Thompson said:
Don't be ridiculous Mr Nabavi.Richard_Nabavi said:I don't think that there is a single person on this earth, not one, who in 2016 thought that Brexit would be implemented in anything like as disastrous a fashion as seems likely to happen on Jan 1st.
Brexit has gone much better than you were claiming it would in 2016.
All that will disappear overnight on Dec 31st.
And there are no working computer systems, no customs agents in place, no detailed administrative processes established, nowhere for the lorries to wait, no vets to fill in the forms, and companies are completely unprepared for the change - unsurprisingly, because not only are they kiboshed by a global pandemic, but even more importantly they don't have a clue what is going to be required in 8 weeks time, or what tariffs will apply, or what forms they will have to fill in.
There has never, in living memory, been a self-inflicted disaster on this scale. It is absolutely staggering - far, far worse than the worst scenarios anyone was contemplating in 2016.
The government must be hoping for some other big story to take our attention away from it.
As industry isn't remotely prepared for transition to whatever gets agreed at the last minute its not surprising that the general public is pretty clueless about the shitfest to come. Polls are already showing a growing swing towards "this is a bad idea" and nothing has happened yet. Wait till you see the vox pops in early January - 'this wasn't supposed to happen', 'nobody said there would be chaos', 'what happened to our deal' etc etc. Will be even funnier if there is a last minute deal because practically speaking there is little difference between enforcing WTO tariffs and enforcing FTA tariffs. We still can't do so because of the lack of a computer / staff / facilities...1 -
https://twitter.com/Claire_FOX5/status/1331364665239154690?s=19
I believe the structural issue was black people voting.0 -
Meanwhile, as @Cyclefree and others keep pointing out, December is death. From The Grocer: "The government’s new tier system has been branded the “death knell” for hospitality businesses by foodservice wholesalers that warn operating under the updated restrictions is “not sustainable”."
"“The tighter restrictions for tier two and three will be the death knell for many hospitality businesses, I don’t understand why the hospitality sector is being put to sacrifice,” said Country Range Group CEO and Federation of Wholesale Distributors chairman Coral Rose. “Meanwhile for foodservice wholesalers, we are expected to continue to operate at a loss in order to provide regular food supply to vulnerable people in care homes and hospices and to ensure there is food provision for children at school or through food parcels during the holiday. This cannot continue, it is simply not sustainable.”"1 -
No. Bloody awful fall. Not one of those where you stumble and know that you’re falling falls but one of those “one minute you’re upright the next you’d landed flat on your back, hit your head” falls. Whole of left side is painful.OldKingCole said:
Morning everybody.Cyclefree said:
Frankly, given some of the columnists and others the Guardian has seen fit to print over the years - Seamus Milne, for instance, or various Islamist sympathisers or Steve Bell - she’s better off out of it. It long ago turned its back on the “Comment is free, facts are sacred” mantra.ydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
Feminists - like Jews - are realising that they are only valued by some parts of the illiberal Left for as long as they are a useful victim. When that stops being the case - either because some other more “deserving victim group” comes along or because they speak for themselves and don’t (the horror!) agree with whatever received opinion thinks - they get ditched and turned on. Both Left and Right fall all too easily into a “Women: know your place” mindset.
You're not feeling much happier this morning, then Ms Cyclefree! Are you over the fall I skim read about as I glanced through Pb?
Miracle that didn’t break anything.
Plus no sleep.
Whinge whinge - sorry. Plus have to steel myself for daughter realising that all her careful menu planning and Xmas quiz writing is for nothing while Sunak stands up in the Commons and says - according to the Today programme - “No-one should be left without hope or opportunity”.
Er, what the actual fuck do you think your government is doing to the hospitality sector, you short-arsed berk?!0 -
Will be fun reading the Guardian editorialising about bullying though.ydoethur said:
For her views...which she is entitled to, and was trying to publish at a newspaper which claims ‘comment is free.’Roger said:
The problem is not spotting a journalist scornedydoethur said:
And therein lies the problem.Roger said:
Not at all. She's a freelance for the Guardian. She hasn't 'left' them. She can write for whoever chooses to give her a call. The Guardian has some fantastic journalists and some crap ones. I'm not really interested in who shares Ms Moore's political views. If the Telegraph wants to buy her articles good luck to both of them. I''m not a fan so I can't see myself breaching the paywall to get to either of themydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!3 -
Current Betfair prices:-
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0 -
Without going all Godwin on you, I suggest there were reasons to oppose Hitler unrelated to what one thinks about European unity.HYUFD said:
What utter rubbish, we defeated potential invasion by Philip II, Napoleon and Hitler to avoid becoming part of a unified European Empire and even when in the EU we never joined the Euro or Schengen, the most we would ever rejoin now is the EEA and only under a Labour government3 -
Don’t worry. I’m sure you’ll get better during the day once you’ve had a strong coffee.Roger said:
Nothing like a load of sweeping generalisations to wake you up in the morning!Cyclefree said:
Frankly, given some of the columnists and others the Guardian has seen fit to print over the years - Seamus Milne, for instance, or various Islamist sympathisers or Steve Bell - she’s better off out of it. It long ago turned its back on the “Comment is free, facts are sacred” mantra.ydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
Feminists - like Jews - are realising that they are only valued by some parts of the illiberal Left for as long as they are a useful victim. When that stops being the case - either because some other more “deserving victim group” comes along or because they speak for themselves and don’t (the horror!) agree with whatever received opinion thinks - they get ditched and turned on. Both Left and Right fall all too easily into a “Women: know your place” mindset.
4 -
Oh, the squad performed terribly.Sandpit said:
There’s definitely a lot of analysis to come about why the Dems did so poorly in the down-ticket races, even if this particular example was always very safe anyway.Pulpstar said:Exhibit #1332234 of why elections are won from the centre
https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1331483636613459969
At first glance, it does appear that the more left-wing House members have done badly compared to the moderate Democrats, even if most of them are in safe urban seats so not actually at risk.
Their "PAC" endorsed 19 candidates in open Democratic primaries. Only 3 won.
Of those 3, only one won in November. (They won the Congressional District representing Harlem.)
But it's even worse.
Of the four member of the squad, three faced serious primary challengers, and two were lucky to hold onto their party's nomination.
Ms Omar in Minnesota picked up less than half the vote in her primary and was fortunate to have such a fractured opposition. While Rashida Taleb lucked out when her major Democratic opponent pulled out at the last minute, leaving her facing just Brenda Jones.
AOC is somewhat different. She is genuinely popular in Queen's. And while one might not agree with her on - well much at all really - she has built a formidable political machine.
0 -
It’s like beating one’s head against a brick wall. They don’t understand. They don’t care. They don’t care to understand either.RochdalePioneers said:Meanwhile, as @Cyclefree and others keep pointing out, December is death. From The Grocer: "The government’s new tier system has been branded the “death knell” for hospitality businesses by foodservice wholesalers that warn operating under the updated restrictions is “not sustainable”."
"“The tighter restrictions for tier two and three will be the death knell for many hospitality businesses, I don’t understand why the hospitality sector is being put to sacrifice,” said Country Range Group CEO and Federation of Wholesale Distributors chairman Coral Rose. “Meanwhile for foodservice wholesalers, we are expected to continue to operate at a loss in order to provide regular food supply to vulnerable people in care homes and hospices and to ensure there is food provision for children at school or through food parcels during the holiday. This cannot continue, it is simply not sustainable.”"
They are simply stupidly destructive.0 -
This is the danger of establishing No Platform as a principle. The right solution for awful views is to expose and challenge them. Once people get in a habit of No Platforming those whose views they disagree with it is easy to adopt that with mainstream and respectable views they disagree with.ydoethur said:
For her views...which she is entitled to, and was trying to publish at a newspaper which claims ‘comment is free.’Roger said:
The problem is not spotting a journalist scornedydoethur said:
And therein lies the problem.Roger said:
Not at all. She's a freelance for the Guardian. She hasn't 'left' them. She can write for whoever chooses to give her a call. The Guardian has some fantastic journalists and some crap ones. I'm not really interested in who shares Ms Moore's political views. If the Telegraph wants to buy her articles good luck to both of them. I''m not a fan so I can't see myself breaching the paywall to get to either of themydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
Comment is free was a very good principle. Shame the Guardian has long not believed in it.2 -
My nephew started University this year. He has 8 flatmates, 5 of whom have just tested positive for Covid. He, however, has not been tested because he has no symptoms. Is this not bizarre? I could see that we might have done something like this when testing capacity was short but now it isn't it just seems crazy to me. It seems very likely to me that he is asymptomatic but it would be good to know, not least because he will be going home for Christmas.
He has been told by NHS Scotland to self isolate until 6th December which he will. He has a part time job at Tesco's and I think he qualifies for the £500 payment but its not completely clear because he doesn't get benefits. If anyone has experience of how to claim this I would be grateful.
Its been a pretty tough first term of University and first time away from home for him.0 -
When I was at Goldman Sachs, my bosses (who shall remain nameless) ran through about a dozen secretaries in about three years.Sandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
One night, enjoying a post work drink with the two of them at the La Grande Marque, they were complaining about how hard it was to get staff, and how they quit after a few months, and etc. etc. etc.
And I said
"Seven secretaries in nine months. Ummm... maybe it's not them, but you..."5 -
Was that a dig at @SeanT , who they fired?Sandpit said:
Indeed, a newspaper that values diversity of thought in its columns.Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!0 -
Like this one?Cyclefree said:
Will be fun reading the Guardian editorialising about bullying though.ydoethur said:
For her views...which she is entitled to, and was trying to publish at a newspaper which claims ‘comment is free.’Roger said:
The problem is not spotting a journalist scornedydoethur said:
And therein lies the problem.Roger said:
Not at all. She's a freelance for the Guardian. She hasn't 'left' them. She can write for whoever chooses to give her a call. The Guardian has some fantastic journalists and some crap ones. I'm not really interested in who shares Ms Moore's political views. If the Telegraph wants to buy her articles good luck to both of them. I''m not a fan so I can't see myself breaching the paywall to get to either of themydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/13305552662455296092 -
So they’ve managed to screw up the Christmas rules. You do wonder about this government some times, a fundamental disconnect. How could they design something capable of causing arguments up and down the country. Lockdowns was easier.1
-
But she wasn't "no platformed" by the Guardian, was she?Philip_Thompson said:
This is the danger of establishing No Platform as a principle. The right solution for awful views is to expose and challenge them. Once people get in a habit of No Platforming those whose views they disagree with it is easy to adopt that with mainstream and respectable views they disagree with.ydoethur said:
For her views...which she is entitled to, and was trying to publish at a newspaper which claims ‘comment is free.’Roger said:
The problem is not spotting a journalist scornedydoethur said:
And therein lies the problem.Roger said:
Not at all. She's a freelance for the Guardian. She hasn't 'left' them. She can write for whoever chooses to give her a call. The Guardian has some fantastic journalists and some crap ones. I'm not really interested in who shares Ms Moore's political views. If the Telegraph wants to buy her articles good luck to both of them. I''m not a fan so I can't see myself breaching the paywall to get to either of themydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
Comment is free was a very good principle. Shame the Guardian has long not believed in it.0 -
The testing / isolating stupidity goes right back to the beginning. And it still makes no sense - people directly exposed to Covid aren't allowed a test without symptoms even though the Liverpool mass testing has shown that people can be full of the pox with no symptoms at all.DavidL said:My nephew started University this year. He has 8 flatmates, 5 of whom have just tested positive for Covid. He, however, has not been tested because he has no symptoms. Is this not bizarre? I could see that we might have done something like this when testing capacity was short but now it isn't it just seems crazy to me. It seems very likely to me that he is asymptomatic but it would be good to know, not least because he will be going home for Christmas.
He has been told by NHS Scotland to self isolate until 6th December which he will. He has a part time job at Tesco's and I think he qualifies for the £500 payment but its not completely clear because he doesn't get benefits. If anyone has experience of how to claim this I would be grateful.
Its been a pretty tough first term of University and first time away from home for him.
Its even sillier if someone you live with is exposed to Covid. Mrs RP told to isolate after one of her pupils tested positive. Yet despite us sleeping together I don't have to isolate as apparently I haven't been exposed to it. Which considering we are married is silly.
On one hand the clearly don't trust their tests - if you test negative after exposure you still have to isolate. On the other hand they don't think people exposed to it need to even isolate never mind test.0 -
“No Platform” is not a principle. Unless putting your fingers in your ears shouting “La La I can’t hear you” is to be dignified with the word “principle”.Philip_Thompson said:
This is the danger of establishing No Platform as a principle. The right solution for awful views is to expose and challenge them. Once people get in a habit of No Platforming those whose views they disagree with it is easy to adopt that with mainstream and respectable views they disagree with.ydoethur said:
For her views...which she is entitled to, and was trying to publish at a newspaper which claims ‘comment is free.’Roger said:
The problem is not spotting a journalist scornedydoethur said:
And therein lies the problem.Roger said:
Not at all. She's a freelance for the Guardian. She hasn't 'left' them. She can write for whoever chooses to give her a call. The Guardian has some fantastic journalists and some crap ones. I'm not really interested in who shares Ms Moore's political views. If the Telegraph wants to buy her articles good luck to both of them. I''m not a fan so I can't see myself breaching the paywall to get to either of themydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
Comment is free was a very good principle. Shame the Guardian has long not believed in it.2 -
Not intentionally! I didn’t know they fired him, thought that he was made redundant when they got rid of the old online-only Blogs section.rcs1000 said:
Was that a dig at @SeanT , who they fired?Sandpit said:
Indeed, a newspaper that values diversity of thought in its columns.Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!0 -
Can I be just a bit positive, please. A relative (by marriage) was 70 yesterday and her stepdaughter organised a party for her. Wasn't very sociable, in that we didn't chat with each other, but only with her and with the stepdaughter/organiser, but we all had a drink (or two) of our our own choice. Lasted about 90 minutes.
It was on Zoom, which all of us, mostly senior citizens, seemed reasonably accustomed to using. The celebrant and her husband were in Cumbria, about 20 miles (I think) from Ms Cyclefree, and the party organiser was in Leeds. Said celebrant is American, who married a Brit some 20 years ago and still has lots of friends and ex-colleagues in the US, (and one in Israel). The Brits, her new family and friends were scattered over England.
Now, I'm as sure as I can be that for many of those there that 'party' wouldn't, without the pressure of, and the changes brought about by, Covid, have happened. We wouldn't have travelled to the 'wilds' of the English Lake District a day or so before Thanksgiving and about a month before Christmas, much though the celebrant is a lovely lady.
So just maybe it's not all bad. We might have had the technology; we've had a FaceTime 'party' with grandchildren in SE Asia, but several of those who were there last night have said in the fairly recent past that they couldn't imagine doing that!
5 -
She was bullied into leaving her job.DecrepiterJohnL said:
But she wasn't "no platformed" by the Guardian, was she?Philip_Thompson said:
This is the danger of establishing No Platform as a principle. The right solution for awful views is to expose and challenge them. Once people get in a habit of No Platforming those whose views they disagree with it is easy to adopt that with mainstream and respectable views they disagree with.ydoethur said:
For her views...which she is entitled to, and was trying to publish at a newspaper which claims ‘comment is free.’Roger said:
The problem is not spotting a journalist scornedydoethur said:
And therein lies the problem.Roger said:
Not at all. She's a freelance for the Guardian. She hasn't 'left' them. She can write for whoever chooses to give her a call. The Guardian has some fantastic journalists and some crap ones. I'm not really interested in who shares Ms Moore's political views. If the Telegraph wants to buy her articles good luck to both of them. I''m not a fan so I can't see myself breaching the paywall to get to either of themydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
Comment is free was a very good principle. Shame the Guardian has long not believed in it.2 -
Sunak is a classic case of "too much too soon."Cyclefree said:
No. Bloody awful fall. Not one of those where you stumble and know that you’re falling falls but one of those “one minute you’re upright the next you’d landed flat on your back, hit your head” falls. Whole of left side is painful.OldKingCole said:
Morning everybody.Cyclefree said:
Frankly, given some of the columnists and others the Guardian has seen fit to print over the years - Seamus Milne, for instance, or various Islamist sympathisers or Steve Bell - she’s better off out of it. It long ago turned its back on the “Comment is free, facts are sacred” mantra.ydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
Feminists - like Jews - are realising that they are only valued by some parts of the illiberal Left for as long as they are a useful victim. When that stops being the case - either because some other more “deserving victim group” comes along or because they speak for themselves and don’t (the horror!) agree with whatever received opinion thinks - they get ditched and turned on. Both Left and Right fall all too easily into a “Women: know your place” mindset.
You're not feeling much happier this morning, then Ms Cyclefree! Are you over the fall I skim read about as I glanced through Pb?
Miracle that didn’t break anything.
Plus no sleep.
Whinge whinge - sorry. Plus have to steel myself for daughter realising that all her careful menu planning and Xmas quiz writing is for nothing while Sunak stands up in the Commons and says - according to the Today programme - “No-one should be left without hope or opportunity”.
Er, what the actual fuck do you think your government is doing to the hospitality sector, you short-arsed berk?!
And if Johnson fell under a bus this morning, Sunak would get the top job by acclamation.1 -
Its a problem without any good solution. Hospitality is being destroyed because of the pandemic not because of the government, in countries without restrictions deploying an entirely laissez-faire response people are voting with their feet and choosing not to spend in hospitality businesses there too.Cyclefree said:
It’s like beating one’s head against a brick wall. They don’t understand. They don’t care. They don’t care to understand either.RochdalePioneers said:Meanwhile, as @Cyclefree and others keep pointing out, December is death. From The Grocer: "The government’s new tier system has been branded the “death knell” for hospitality businesses by foodservice wholesalers that warn operating under the updated restrictions is “not sustainable”."
"“The tighter restrictions for tier two and three will be the death knell for many hospitality businesses, I don’t understand why the hospitality sector is being put to sacrifice,” said Country Range Group CEO and Federation of Wholesale Distributors chairman Coral Rose. “Meanwhile for foodservice wholesalers, we are expected to continue to operate at a loss in order to provide regular food supply to vulnerable people in care homes and hospices and to ensure there is food provision for children at school or through food parcels during the holiday. This cannot continue, it is simply not sustainable.”"
They are simply stupidly destructive.
The government has spent tens of billions already this year supporting the hospitality industry. More than any other industry.
Doesn't make it much easier for thsoe who are struggling and wish for even more support, but it doesn't mean they don't care to understand.
Hopefully your daughter can get enough support to make it through to the Spring then hopefully after a vaccine rollout the restrictions can be lifted ASAP.0 -
It is bizarre. My daughter got back safely from France yesterday (by public transport, including a plane from Heathrow) and now has to self isolate for 2 weeks. Which is fair enough, if a bit late. But her partner is delivering shopping to vulnerable people for Tesco's 7 days a week at the moment and that is ok. Make's no sense to me at all tbh. Its hardly surprising that track and trace has not worked when such obvious vectors are ignored.RochdalePioneers said:
The testing / isolating stupidity goes right back to the beginning. And it still makes no sense - people directly exposed to Covid aren't allowed a test without symptoms even though the Liverpool mass testing has shown that people can be full of the pox with no symptoms at all.DavidL said:My nephew started University this year. He has 8 flatmates, 5 of whom have just tested positive for Covid. He, however, has not been tested because he has no symptoms. Is this not bizarre? I could see that we might have done something like this when testing capacity was short but now it isn't it just seems crazy to me. It seems very likely to me that he is asymptomatic but it would be good to know, not least because he will be going home for Christmas.
He has been told by NHS Scotland to self isolate until 6th December which he will. He has a part time job at Tesco's and I think he qualifies for the £500 payment but its not completely clear because he doesn't get benefits. If anyone has experience of how to claim this I would be grateful.
Its been a pretty tough first term of University and first time away from home for him.
Its even sillier if someone you live with is exposed to Covid. Mrs RP told to isolate after one of her pupils tested positive. Yet despite us sleeping together I don't have to isolate as apparently I haven't been exposed to it. Which considering we are married is silly.
On one hand the clearly don't trust their tests - if you test negative after exposure you still have to isolate. On the other hand they don't think people exposed to it need to even isolate never mind test.1 -
Was she? From what I can make out from the linked Unherd piece, Moore endured a great deal of what might be called bullying and even discrimination over the years without complaint but then left the Guardian after it published a letter critical of her trans article.Cyclefree said:
She was bullied into leaving her job.DecrepiterJohnL said:
But she wasn't "no platformed" by the Guardian, was she?Philip_Thompson said:
This is the danger of establishing No Platform as a principle. The right solution for awful views is to expose and challenge them. Once people get in a habit of No Platforming those whose views they disagree with it is easy to adopt that with mainstream and respectable views they disagree with.ydoethur said:
For her views...which she is entitled to, and was trying to publish at a newspaper which claims ‘comment is free.’Roger said:
The problem is not spotting a journalist scornedydoethur said:
And therein lies the problem.Roger said:
Not at all. She's a freelance for the Guardian. She hasn't 'left' them. She can write for whoever chooses to give her a call. The Guardian has some fantastic journalists and some crap ones. I'm not really interested in who shares Ms Moore's political views. If the Telegraph wants to buy her articles good luck to both of them. I''m not a fan so I can't see myself breaching the paywall to get to either of themydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
Comment is free was a very good principle. Shame the Guardian has long not believed in it.0 -
It's well-established that the test is good enough to tell you that you have the virus, but not good enough to tell you that you haven't.RochdalePioneers said:
The testing / isolating stupidity goes right back to the beginning. And it still makes no sense - people directly exposed to Covid aren't allowed a test without symptoms even though the Liverpool mass testing has shown that people can be full of the pox with no symptoms at all.DavidL said:My nephew started University this year. He has 8 flatmates, 5 of whom have just tested positive for Covid. He, however, has not been tested because he has no symptoms. Is this not bizarre? I could see that we might have done something like this when testing capacity was short but now it isn't it just seems crazy to me. It seems very likely to me that he is asymptomatic but it would be good to know, not least because he will be going home for Christmas.
He has been told by NHS Scotland to self isolate until 6th December which he will. He has a part time job at Tesco's and I think he qualifies for the £500 payment but its not completely clear because he doesn't get benefits. If anyone has experience of how to claim this I would be grateful.
Its been a pretty tough first term of University and first time away from home for him.
Its even sillier if someone you live with is exposed to Covid. Mrs RP told to isolate after one of her pupils tested positive. Yet despite us sleeping together I don't have to isolate as apparently I haven't been exposed to it. Which considering we are married is silly.
On one hand the clearly don't trust their tests - if you test negative after exposure you still have to isolate. On the other hand they don't think people exposed to it need to even isolate never mind test.
I don't know why we aren't testing contacts, to find out whether their contacts should isolate too, but I suppose it might be because a negative result might make people think it's okay for them to be out and about.
Every day we (as a country) are talking about the minutiae of the restrictions when every day there should be consistent messaging to drive home the importance of isolating if there's a risk of you carrying the infection.
It's the greatest failure of government communication I can think of.0 -
Sandpit said:
Indeed, a newspaper that values diversity of thought in its columns.Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
LOL! I was going to add that surely that's got to be worth the 'Three Likes' Felix Sandpit and BluestBlue but I remembered you can't like your own posts!0 -
You can always tell when the Goldman Sachs Elf is on maneuvers as the fucking hoodie comes out for a photo shoot.Stuartinromford said:
Sunak is a classic case of "too much too soon."
And if Johnson fell under a bus this morning, Sunak would get the top job by acclamation.1 -
Sure you can.Roger said:Sandpit said:
Indeed, a newspaper that values diversity of thought in its columns.Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
LOL! I was going to add that surely that's got to be worth the 'Three Likes' Felix Sandpit and BluestBlue but I remembered you can't like your own posts!4 -
Hmmm Trump's net approval is stuck at -8% since the election. (538 averages)
This is a lot better than during most of the campaign. And also better than almost all of the 4 years of his presidency. So incompetently attempting a coup doesn't seem to have negatively affected his approval ratings. Maybe it is just what everyone already expected of Trump, but I still find it worrying that it hasn't flipped more people into disapproval.0 -
-
Indeed. Yet as @DavidL and I are discussing, you can literally exchange bolidly fluids with someone in isolation because potentially or ACTUALLY exposed to Covid and not have to isolate yourself.LostPassword said:
It's well-established that the test is good enough to tell you that you have the virus, but not good enough to tell you that you haven't.RochdalePioneers said:
The testing / isolating stupidity goes right back to the beginning. And it still makes no sense - people directly exposed to Covid aren't allowed a test without symptoms even though the Liverpool mass testing has shown that people can be full of the pox with no symptoms at all.DavidL said:My nephew started University this year. He has 8 flatmates, 5 of whom have just tested positive for Covid. He, however, has not been tested because he has no symptoms. Is this not bizarre? I could see that we might have done something like this when testing capacity was short but now it isn't it just seems crazy to me. It seems very likely to me that he is asymptomatic but it would be good to know, not least because he will be going home for Christmas.
He has been told by NHS Scotland to self isolate until 6th December which he will. He has a part time job at Tesco's and I think he qualifies for the £500 payment but its not completely clear because he doesn't get benefits. If anyone has experience of how to claim this I would be grateful.
Its been a pretty tough first term of University and first time away from home for him.
Its even sillier if someone you live with is exposed to Covid. Mrs RP told to isolate after one of her pupils tested positive. Yet despite us sleeping together I don't have to isolate as apparently I haven't been exposed to it. Which considering we are married is silly.
On one hand the clearly don't trust their tests - if you test negative after exposure you still have to isolate. On the other hand they don't think people exposed to it need to even isolate never mind test.
I don't know why we aren't testing contacts, to find out whether their contacts should isolate too, but I suppose it might be because a negative result might make people think it's okay for them to be out and about.
Every day we (as a country) are talking about the minutiae of the restrictions when every day there should be consistent messaging to drive home the importance of isolating if there's a risk of you carrying the infection.
It's the greatest failure of government communication I can think of.0 -
That's free speech, that is.Sandpit said:
Like this one?Cyclefree said:
Will be fun reading the Guardian editorialising about bullying though.ydoethur said:
For her views...which she is entitled to, and was trying to publish at a newspaper which claims ‘comment is free.’Roger said:
The problem is not spotting a journalist scornedydoethur said:
And therein lies the problem.Roger said:
Not at all. She's a freelance for the Guardian. She hasn't 'left' them. She can write for whoever chooses to give her a call. The Guardian has some fantastic journalists and some crap ones. I'm not really interested in who shares Ms Moore's political views. If the Telegraph wants to buy her articles good luck to both of them. I''m not a fan so I can't see myself breaching the paywall to get to either of themydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1330555266245529609
You have to take the rough with the smooth.0 -
Was she bullied into leaving her job, or was she belittled for her opinions?Cyclefree said:
She was bullied into leaving her job.DecrepiterJohnL said:
But she wasn't "no platformed" by the Guardian, was she?Philip_Thompson said:
This is the danger of establishing No Platform as a principle. The right solution for awful views is to expose and challenge them. Once people get in a habit of No Platforming those whose views they disagree with it is easy to adopt that with mainstream and respectable views they disagree with.ydoethur said:
For her views...which she is entitled to, and was trying to publish at a newspaper which claims ‘comment is free.’Roger said:
The problem is not spotting a journalist scornedydoethur said:
And therein lies the problem.Roger said:
Not at all. She's a freelance for the Guardian. She hasn't 'left' them. She can write for whoever chooses to give her a call. The Guardian has some fantastic journalists and some crap ones. I'm not really interested in who shares Ms Moore's political views. If the Telegraph wants to buy her articles good luck to both of them. I''m not a fan so I can't see myself breaching the paywall to get to either of themydoethur said:
Doesn’t it disturb you in any way that a left wing journalist can openly say she’s more comfortable and more accepted at one of Britain’s most right wing newspapers than she is at the Guardian?Roger said:
I'm sure she'll be more than happy plying her trade at the telegraphSandpit said:
That was a horrifying read.CarlottaVance said:Fascinating long read:
https://twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1331389096816762880?s=21
What is it with these 'activists', that they talk about kindness and inclusivity one minute, yet make death threats and rape threats the next?
As she says, the mainstream left have become so preoccupied with identity politics, that she now finds the Telegraph printing her columns while the Guardian staff wanted to get her fired.
Oh, and props to the Unherd editor who let an N-word go, when written by a white woman!
Comment is free was a very good principle. Shame the Guardian has long not believed in it.
Because that belittling... well, that's free speech too.
You can't say: free speech for those espousing radical ideas! But: no to free speech for those being rude about those radical ideas!0 -
Surely the simple answer for this year and next is that a significant chunk of our 0.7% is going to be spent on gearing up the provision of vaccines, specifically the Oxford AZ vaccine which is available at cost, to the third world? It is very much in our own interests that this is done as this virus has shown how easy it is for such infections to travel internationally and how completely defenceless to that we are.Scott_xP said:
In the longer term I don't see anything magical about the 0.7% but right now we have a strong vested interest in working to eliminate this virus everywhere.6
This discussion has been closed.