Hunger for change. The messed-up debate about free school meals – politicalbetting.com

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

For all the mistakes I do not think HMG have performed much worse than other governments to be fair

You need to get your eyes tested. On second thoughts don’t.

ydoethur said:

IanB2 said:

IanB2 said:

For some reason, the Nigerian tanker has had several RNLI lifeboats sent out to it.

BBC says the military are being called in

With a tanker full of oil on the doorstep of some of our most sensitive and heavily populated beach areas, they would be raving mad not to.

The consequences of somebody opening the taps (metaphorically speaking) on that thing do not bear thinking about. It would make the Braer or even the Torrey Canyon look like a picnic.

It seems a weird place to try to hijack anything, under the noses of half a dozen highly professional armies and intellgence services. Off Somalia, yes, but off the Isle of Wight??

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

This is us in two weeks then.

I really can’t see how schools will be able to stay open under such circumstances. It’s already running rampant through them and if vulnerable teachers have to shield then the whole system will implode again.

Plus we’re already all completely worn out and the children are exploding under the restrictions even though so far we’ve been pretty lucky with the weather.

My son’s primary is fine, and all the children and teachers seem delighted to be back.

You seem desperate for the schools to close.

To be honest it is the same here with two of our grandchildren at primary and two at secondary

While of course they are on school half term, extended another week here in Wales, they have not had any interruption so far

NickPalmer said:

ydoethur said:

IanB2 said:

IanB2 said:

For some reason, the Nigerian tanker has had several RNLI lifeboats sent out to it.

BBC says the military are being called in

With a tanker full of oil on the doorstep of some of our most sensitive and heavily populated beach areas, they would be raving mad not to.

The consequences of somebody opening the taps (metaphorically speaking) on that thing do not bear thinking about. It would make the Braer or even the Torrey Canyon look like a picnic.

It seems a weird place to try to hijack anything, under the noses of half a dozen highly professional armies and intellgence services. Off Somalia, yes, but off the Isle of Wight??

Somali Southsea pirates.

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

Not really, it's been very disorganised and people have been proved to be irresponsible and not isolating after testing positive and the state has been left wanting in many areas. Any thoughts of exceptionalism should have been washed away by the virus response both from the state and the people.

The NHS, academic and pharmaceutical contribution is world class.

Yes, that has been, no doubt. Though on non virus stuff the NHS is overseeing a disaster in healthcare with millions of missed cancer diagnoses, GPs refusing to see patients and people afraid of going to hospital appointments.

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

Not really, it's been very disorganised and people have been proved to be irresponsible and not isolating after testing positive and the state has been left wanting in many areas. Any thoughts of exceptionalism should have been washed away by the virus response both from the state and the people.

The NHS, academic and pharmaceutical contribution is world class.

The NHS frontline contribution is world class.....the back end stuff has been frankly a huge steaming dung pile

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

This is us in two weeks then.

I really can’t see how schools will be able to stay open under such circumstances. It’s already running rampant through them and if vulnerable teachers have to shield then the whole system will implode again.

Plus we’re already all completely worn out and the children are exploding under the restrictions even though so far we’ve been pretty lucky with the weather.

My son’s primary is fine, and all the children and teachers seem delighted to be back.

You seem desperate for the schools to close.

Primary and secondary schools are completely different kettles of fish.

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

Not really, it's been very disorganised and people have been proved to be irresponsible and not isolating after testing positive and the state has been left wanting in many areas. Any thoughts of exceptionalism should have been washed away by the virus response both from the state and the people.

The NHS, academic and pharmaceutical contribution is world class.

Yes, that has been, no doubt. Though on non virus stuff the NHS is overseeing a disaster in healthcare with millions of missed cancer diagnoses, GPs refusing to see patients and people afraid of going to hospital appointments.

In the endless stream of Boris, Dido and Serco mishaps it’s important to remember that elsewhere there is much to celebrate and not to take for granted.

MrEd said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

MrEd said:

Wulfrun_Phil said:

North Carolina turnout in early 2020 votes is now 65% of total 2016 votes. 4.7m votes were cast in 2016, 3.1m have already been cast in 2020.

Of these votes, 40.5% are from registered Democrats, and 30% from registered Republicans, an absolute difference of 326,000.

The Republicans have an enormous amount of catching up to do and are running out of time to do it.

One thing to be careful of in NC is older voters registered Democrats but who vote Republicans.

In rural areas, which are 19pc of votes cast so far (or what I checked last earlier), the Democrats have a big lead by party registration. Given these tend to be Trump areas, and that the EV has skewed heavily to older voters, there is a good chance many of these are registered as Democrats but have voted for Trump.

Regardless, the Republicans have been cutting the democrat lead in party registration votes by c 2pc per day and it is now at 11pc. Souls to the polls will be less effective this year given CV.

I’m increasingly of the view the Republicans will hold NC both at the Senate and Presidential level

You are correct that in many parts of NC and other states (esp. rural areas) there are plenty of folks still registered as Democrats but voting (generally) for Republicans esp for federal office.

On other hand, polling (at least nationally) shows that one of Trumpsky & RNC's big problems this year is defection of many seniors, due mainly to COVID-19.

If there are shifts in older voters, I think it will be diverse in spread. I’m making a sweeping generalisation here but I can’t imagine older white voters in NC (or the South) are going to sympathetic to BLM or systemic racism and that has been a theme of the Biden campaign. So I think in NC it’s probably a negative for Biden.

Don't think I agree with you re: impact of BLM on Southern White geezers.

Partly because Biden-Harris have really NOT stressed this, because Trumpsky has muddied his own waters here by his way-over-the-top AND overtly racist response.

But mostly because they are concerned more (I think) with COVID now AND the trajectory of the economy in the not-so-distant future.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

For all the mistakes I do not think HMG have performed much worse than other governments to be fair

Clearly you have not been paying any attention at all.

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

This is us in two weeks then.

I really can’t see how schools will be able to stay open under such circumstances. It’s already running rampant through them and if vulnerable teachers have to shield then the whole system will implode again.

Plus we’re already all completely worn out and the children are exploding under the restrictions even though so far we’ve been pretty lucky with the weather.

My son’s primary is fine, and all the children and teachers seem delighted to be back.

You seem desperate for the schools to close.

Listen to me, Mr Pompous Stuck Up Last Boy Scout or whatever you’re calling yourself today, because I won’t repeat this. If you were literate and had read my earlier comments, you would know I opposed both the shutting of schools and the cancelling of exams. I felt both calls were made too soon, and were both damaging and unnecessary.

But that was then, and this is now.

Since I went back in September I have been walking far more than normal carrying heavy loads and I am having severe problems with my legs and back as a result. I am trying to teach children forced to sit in one seat all day because if they move from it at all it buggers up the Covid strategy. I am ordered to stand in a box that somehow magically insulates me from this virus even though when in it I am less than 75 cm from children who then test positive for Covid. I am teaching in unheated classrooms and forced to keep windows open because some drug addled moron in the civil service thinks that will magically stop the virus being transmitted among children who are packed like sardines.

I have taken three days off sick in my life. All have been since the start of Covid.

The sick list last week was skyrocketing. Staff and children. Everyone is strained, and everyone is exhausted. I am in addition to dealing with my own physical problems having to provide extensive cover for colleagues. One more going off and we would have been in big trouble. In fact, we were already at panic stations on Thursday in case we couldn’t open Friday. And it’s not just Covid. Exhaustion and muscular problems account for around half.

And my reward, when I say this isn’t sustainable for the the not wholly ridiculous reason that it isn’t, is to be sneered at by somebody who would clearly make Dominic Cummings look intelligent, sophisticated and knowledgeable, on the basis of anecdotal evidence derived from limited experience. Do you really think they’re going to say how much they hate the restrictions and they wish you and your child would get stuffed?

I don’t want schools to shut. I teach. I enjoy teaching and I am good at it. But equally this cannot go on and if we have skyrocketing infection rates whatever those drug addled fellow low lifes of yours in the Department for Education thinks, we will have to shut schools down.

So my answer to your dishonest personal attack is - fuck off. Take your nastiness and condescension home and I hope it chokes you.

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

Not really, it's been very disorganised and people have been proved to be irresponsible and not isolating after testing positive and the state has been left wanting in many areas. Any thoughts of exceptionalism should have been washed away by the virus response both from the state and the people.

The NHS, academic and pharmaceutical contribution is world class.

Yes, that has been, no doubt. Though on non virus stuff the NHS is overseeing a disaster in healthcare with millions of missed cancer diagnoses, GPs refusing to see patients and people afraid of going to hospital appointments.

In the endless stream of Boris, Dido and Serco mishaps it’s important to remember that elsewhere there is much to celebrate and not to take for granted.

I also think academia hasn't covered itself in glory, the base model of viral replication here is still getting it wrong.

MrEd said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

MrEd said:

Wulfrun_Phil said:

North Carolina turnout in early 2020 votes is now 65% of total 2016 votes. 4.7m votes were cast in 2016, 3.1m have already been cast in 2020.

Of these votes, 40.5% are from registered Democrats, and 30% from registered Republicans, an absolute difference of 326,000.

The Republicans have an enormous amount of catching up to do and are running out of time to do it.

One thing to be careful of in NC is older voters registered Democrats but who vote Republicans.

In rural areas, which are 19pc of votes cast so far (or what I checked last earlier), the Democrats have a big lead by party registration. Given these tend to be Trump areas, and that the EV has skewed heavily to older voters, there is a good chance many of these are registered as Democrats but have voted for Trump.

Regardless, the Republicans have been cutting the democrat lead in party registration votes by c 2pc per day and it is now at 11pc. Souls to the polls will be less effective this year given CV.

I’m increasingly of the view the Republicans will hold NC both at the Senate and Presidential level

You are correct that in many parts of NC and other states (esp. rural areas) there are plenty of folks still registered as Democrats but voting (generally) for Republicans esp for federal office.

On other hand, polling (at least nationally) shows that one of Trumpsky & RNC's big problems this year is defection of many seniors, due mainly to COVID-19.

If there are shifts in older voters, I think it will be diverse in spread. I’m making a sweeping generalisation here but I can’t imagine older white voters in NC (or the South) are going to sympathetic to BLM or systemic racism and that has been a theme of the Biden campaign. So I think in NC it’s probably a negative for Biden.

It probably didn't go down too well with with older black voters either, who are just as conservative as their white counterparts.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

For all the mistakes I do not think HMG have performed much worse than other governments to be fair

You need to get your eyes tested. On second thoughts don’t.

I have my eyes tested every year as at my age I need to be sure I can drive safely

However I do not expect you to be independent in your assessment as you have your own political views

That old chestnut. Whilst we can’t meet you exquisite impartiality standards BigG 😂, even the government says it hasn’t kept its promises.

Glad you get your eyes tested, the Barnard Castle branch of Specsavers no doubt..

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

Not really, it's been very disorganised and people have been proved to be irresponsible and not isolating after testing positive and the state has been left wanting in many areas. Any thoughts of exceptionalism should have been washed away by the virus response both from the state and the people.

The NHS, academic and pharmaceutical contribution is world class.

Yes, that has been, no doubt. Though on non virus stuff the NHS is overseeing a disaster in healthcare with millions of missed cancer diagnoses, GPs refusing to see patients and people afraid of going to hospital appointments.

In the endless stream of Boris, Dido and Serco mishaps it’s important to remember that elsewhere there is much to celebrate and not to take for granted.

I also think academia hasn't covered itself in glory, the base model of viral replication here is still getting it wrong.

All models are wrong. The question is whether they are useful. The virus was clearly out of control when the scientists put the brakes on back in March. The model was instrumental in getting government to wake up. As such it served an important purpose.

The tanker now turned south east, the lifeboats still in pursuit, at least two maybe three boats with flashing blue lights and three helicopters overhead

Trafalgar have just slapped a NC poll up on their site.

And you are never going to believe it, it has exactly the same demographics as the one from September.

Outstanding consistency

Big_G_NorthWales said:

NickPalmer said:

Theuniondivvie said:

C4 news, latest Tory mp excuse: it's Labour's fault for timing this row which to make us look bad.

I heard Tim Loughton on the radio say that he was going to vote to reverse the decision as a tempoirary emergency measure but Labour were hypocrites because they hadn't done it whebn they were in power. Slightly overlooking the Covid crisis.

That said, I get that he needs to cover his flank if he's going to revolt.

I hope Boris sees sense otherwise his mps must

5 already have plus 22 abstained, so it does look like a crushing defeat for no 10 if they continue this self inflicted ill thought out decision

and when he fails to make a difference will they all apologise to the nation and put their hands into their pockets to recompense the tax payers for wasting their money? For once no 10 like a stopped clock is correct

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

Not really, it's been very disorganised and people have been proved to be irresponsible and not isolating after testing positive and the state has been left wanting in many areas. Any thoughts of exceptionalism should have been washed away by the virus response both from the state and the people.

The NHS, academic and pharmaceutical contribution is world class.

Yes, that has been, no doubt. Though on non virus stuff the NHS is overseeing a disaster in healthcare with millions of missed cancer diagnoses, GPs refusing to see patients and people afraid of going to hospital appointments.

In the endless stream of Boris, Dido and Serco mishaps it’s important to remember that elsewhere there is much to celebrate and not to take for granted.

I also think academia hasn't covered itself in glory, the base model of viral replication here is still getting it wrong.

All models are wrong. The question is whether they are useful. The virus was clearly out of control when the scientists put the brakes on back in March. The model was instrumental in getting government to wake up. As such it served an important purpose.

The circuit breaker models presented to SAGE predicts it will save somewhere between low 1000 and 107k lives...it is not useful at all.

IanB2 said:

The tanker now turned south east, the lifeboats still in pursuit, at least two maybe three boats with flashing blue lights and three helicopters overhead

All sounds very weird. The SBS is only a short way off - why haven’t they just been dropped onto the tanker to sort matters out?

Jonathan said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

Not really, it's been very disorganised and people have been proved to be irresponsible and not isolating after testing positive and the state has been left wanting in many areas. Any thoughts of exceptionalism should have been washed away by the virus response both from the state and the people.

The NHS, academic and pharmaceutical contribution is world class.

Yes, that has been, no doubt. Though on non virus stuff the NHS is overseeing a disaster in healthcare with millions of missed cancer diagnoses, GPs refusing to see patients and people afraid of going to hospital appointments.

In the endless stream of Boris, Dido and Serco mishaps it’s important to remember that elsewhere there is much to celebrate and not to take for granted.

Lets not forget how we got Dido / Serco in the first place. PHE refused to buy the German PCR, demanding to produce our own, then after that wasted month, insisted all testing be conducted only by PHE labs...they were then unable to scale up testing much at all for yet another month, and it also led to Witty / Valance telling the government we could only test hospital admissions. At the sane time, Witty / Valance, were convinced antibody tests were really what we needed.

Only when Hancock did his nut and got the man from Delmonte was capacity expanded, via copying the German approach of using public, private and academic labs.

Context. You’ll be on Twitter next.

What do mean? That is the back story...now replacing the Deloitte consultants who successfully scaled the capacity with a totally unqualified crony and the system then becoming worse, that is all on Hancock.

The trace aspect has always been oversold. I said way back, that it is just impossible to do this manually. Even at very low numbers you can't keep up.

The only people who successfully contact tracd are the South Koreans. They have both low levels and an automated system they spent 5 years building after SARS.

A "muscular socialism of the family"? - Hmm. Not sure I'm going to like this. Depends what it means.

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

Not really, it's been very disorganised and people have been proved to be irresponsible and not isolating after testing positive and the state has been left wanting in many areas. Any thoughts of exceptionalism should have been washed away by the virus response both from the state and the people.

The NHS, academic and pharmaceutical contribution is world class.

Yes, that has been, no doubt. Though on non virus stuff the NHS is overseeing a disaster in healthcare with millions of missed cancer diagnoses, GPs refusing to see patients and people afraid of going to hospital appointments.

In the endless stream of Boris, Dido and Serco mishaps it’s important to remember that elsewhere there is much to celebrate and not to take for granted.

I also think academia hasn't covered itself in glory, the base model of viral replication here is still getting it wrong.

All models are wrong. The question is whether they are useful. The virus was clearly out of control when the scientists put the brakes on back in March. The model was instrumental in getting government to wake up. As such it served an important purpose.

I could understand the model being wrong in March. However, it's still wrong now. They're still using mathematical models, the proverbial spherical cow in a vacuum, to predict what people are going to do and people are predictably unpredictable.

By now we have more than enough data to train a proper ML model with multiple variables that will spit out a decent range, yet we got 800-107k lives saved for the circuit breaker. Academics have not kept up with best practices in data modelling and now we're paying the price.

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

Not really, it's been very disorganised and people have been proved to be irresponsible and not isolating after testing positive and the state has been left wanting in many areas. Any thoughts of exceptionalism should have been washed away by the virus response both from the state and the people.

The NHS, academic and pharmaceutical contribution is world class.

Yes, that has been, no doubt. Though on non virus stuff the NHS is overseeing a disaster in healthcare with millions of missed cancer diagnoses, GPs refusing to see patients and people afraid of going to hospital appointments.

In the endless stream of Boris, Dido and Serco mishaps it’s important to remember that elsewhere there is much to celebrate and not to take for granted.

I also think academia hasn't covered itself in glory, the base model of viral replication here is still getting it wrong.

All models are wrong. The question is whether they are useful. The virus was clearly out of control when the scientists put the brakes on back in March. The model was instrumental in getting government to wake up. As such it served an important purpose.

I could understand the model being wrong in March. However, it's still wrong now. They're still using mathematical models, the proverbial spherical cow in a vacuum, to predict what people are going to do and people are predictably unpredictable.

By now we have more than enough data to train a proper ML model with multiple variables that will spit out a decent range, yet we got 800-107k lives saved for the circuit breaker. Academics have not kept up with best practices in data modelling and now we're paying the price.

Why would we pay attention to academics? They didn’t even realise that cramming a load of students from every part of the country into cramped accommodation with shared and inadequately cleaned facilities might possibly not be the smartest idea in a pandemic...

Meanwhile the Economist guys are close to kicking Trafalgar out of their model

https://twitter.com/gelliottmorris/status/1320446999821508609?s=21

ydoethur said:

Anabobazina said:

ydoethur said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

This is us in two weeks then.

I really can’t see how schools will be able to stay open under such circumstances. It’s already running rampant through them and if vulnerable teachers have to shield then the whole system will implode again.

Plus we’re already all completely worn out and the children are exploding under the restrictions even though so far we’ve been pretty lucky with the weather.

My son’s primary is fine, and all the children and teachers seem delighted to be back.

You seem desperate for the schools to close.

Listen to me, Mr Pompous Stuck Up Last Boy Scout or whatever you’re calling yourself today, because I won’t repeat this. If you were literate and had read my earlier comments, you would know I opposed both the shutting of schools and the cancelling of exams. I felt both calls were made too soon, and were both damaging and unnecessary.

But that was then, and this is now.

Since I went back in September I have been walking far more than normal carrying heavy loads and I am having severe problems with my legs and back as a result. I am trying to teach children forced to sit in one seat all day because if they move from it at all it buggers up the Covid strategy. I am ordered to stand in a box that somehow magically insulates me from this virus even though when in it I am less than 75 cm from children who then test positive for Covid. I am teaching in unheated classrooms and forced to keep windows open because some drug addled moron in the civil service thinks that will magically stop the virus being transmitted among children who are packed like sardines.

I have taken three days off sick in my life. All have been since the start of Covid.

The sick list last week was skyrocketing. Staff and children. Everyone is strained, and everyone is exhausted. I am in addition to dealing with my own physical problems having to provide extensive cover for colleagues. One more going off and we would have been in big trouble. In fact, we were already at panic stations on Thursday in case we couldn’t open Friday. And it’s not just Covid. Exhaustion and muscular problems account for around half.

And my reward, when I say this isn’t sustainable for the the not wholly ridiculous reason that it isn’t, is to be sneered at by somebody who would clearly make Dominic Cummings look intelligent, sophisticated and knowledgeable, on the basis of anecdotal evidence derived from limited experience. Do you really think they’re going to say how much they hate the restrictions and they wish you and your child would get stuffed?

I don’t want schools to shut. I teach. I enjoy teaching and I am good at it. But equally this cannot go on and if we have skyrocketing infection rates whatever those drug addled fellow low lifes of yours in the Department for Education thinks, we will have to shut schools down.

So my answer to your dishonest personal attack is - fuck off. Take your nastiness and condescension home and I hope it chokes you.

I have to say none of my grandchildren seem to have had any issues at school other than some self isolation and my son has been in school throughout the crisis, and says that there is a lot of stress amongst the staff but they recognise how important their role is in this crisis

I really hope things do become easier for you and your post does identify so many stress points

I assume you are either on or going on half term and hope this may help you

All the best

IshmaelZ said:

Leaving aside @ydoethur's shortcomings as a punsmith when judged against the very best, I would have said that the job he continues to do when many of us would have called in sick deserves every bit as much admiration and gratitude as that done by anyone in the NHS. Especially from the parents of school age children. I would be more comfortable if attempts to white-feather him were to cease.

I’m not sure whether to thank you for the kind words or take umbrage at the comments on my punning skills...

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

With respect to SPLIT-TICKET VOTING in US elections, believe that UKers and others really do NOT appreciate how common this is over here. AND not just common, but an electoral practice and tradition valued by millions of Americans as fundamental to civic responsibility and (small d) democratic legitimacy.

For example: Friend of mine, a lefty and strong Bernie Sanders supporter, was trying to find a Republican on his ballot he could vote for? At least one, just to prove - to himself and anyone he told about his decision - that he was a true (small i) independent who judged a candidate based on their qualifications NOT (merely) on basis of party.

This viewpoint - which (believe it or not) I share with my friend, and just about everyone else I know - is in fact the secret of electoral success for GOP WA Secretary of State Kim Wyman, who IF she can survive the anti-Trumpsky surge out here, will likely be the ONLY statewide elected Republican after this election.

She, like previous Republican SOSs, can beat Democratic challengers because large numbers of DEMOCRATS not just think that she's doing a good (or at least NOT a bad) job (which is supervising elections) BUT also because they want to vote for at least one GOP - and she's their best option.

Similarly Massachusetts has had a GOP governor for many years, and West Virginia has a Democratic senator

dixiedean said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

Not really, it's been very disorganised and people have been proved to be irresponsible and not isolating after testing positive and the state has been left wanting in many areas. Any thoughts of exceptionalism should have been washed away by the virus response both from the state and the people.

The NHS, academic and pharmaceutical contribution is world class.

Yes, that has been, no doubt. Though on non virus stuff the NHS is overseeing a disaster in healthcare with millions of missed cancer diagnoses, GPs refusing to see patients and people afraid of going to hospital appointments.

In the endless stream of Boris, Dido and Serco mishaps it’s important to remember that elsewhere there is much to celebrate and not to take for granted.

I also think academia hasn't covered itself in glory, the base model of viral replication here is still getting it wrong.

All models are wrong. The question is whether they are useful. The virus was clearly out of control when the scientists put the brakes on back in March. The model was instrumental in getting government to wake up. As such it served an important purpose.

The circuit breaker models presented to SAGE predicts it will save somewhere between low 1000 and 107k lives...it is not useful at all.

Although, in fairness, it's probably correct.
And how often can that be said?

Well with that kind of range of course it's correct, it's absolutely worthless though.

MaxPB said:

dixiedean said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

Not really, it's been very disorganised and people have been proved to be irresponsible and not isolating after testing positive and the state has been left wanting in many areas. Any thoughts of exceptionalism should have been washed away by the virus response both from the state and the people.

The NHS, academic and pharmaceutical contribution is world class.

Yes, that has been, no doubt. Though on non virus stuff the NHS is overseeing a disaster in healthcare with millions of missed cancer diagnoses, GPs refusing to see patients and people afraid of going to hospital appointments.

In the endless stream of Boris, Dido and Serco mishaps it’s important to remember that elsewhere there is much to celebrate and not to take for granted.

I also think academia hasn't covered itself in glory, the base model of viral replication here is still getting it wrong.

All models are wrong. The question is whether they are useful. The virus was clearly out of control when the scientists put the brakes on back in March. The model was instrumental in getting government to wake up. As such it served an important purpose.

The circuit breaker models presented to SAGE predicts it will save somewhere between low 1000 and 107k lives...it is not useful at all.

Although, in fairness, it's probably correct.
And how often can that be said?

Well with that kind of range of course it's correct, it's absolutely worthless though.

It’s a bit like the time Tim Renton was asked how many civil servants were either (a) men or (b) women and truthfully answered, ‘all of them.’

@ydoethur hats off to you and huge respect.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

For all the mistakes I do not think HMG have performed much worse than other governments to be fair

You need to get your eyes tested. On second thoughts don’t.

I have my eyes tested every year as at my age I need to be sure I can drive safely

However I do not expect you to be independent in your assessment as you have your own political views

That old chestnut. Whilst we can’t meet you exquisite impartiality standards BigG 😂, even the government says it hasn’t kept its promises.

Glad you get your eyes tested, the Barnard Castle branch of Specsavers no doubt..

No - Llandudno Boots

Unlike the Barnard Castle story, they’re not cobblers.

Jonathan said:

@ydoethur hats off to you and huge respect.

Thank you.

IshmaelZ said:

ydoethur said:

IshmaelZ said:

Leaving aside @ydoethur's shortcomings as a punsmith when judged against the very best, I would have said that the job he continues to do when many of us would have called in sick deserves every bit as much admiration and gratitude as that done by anyone in the NHS. Especially from the parents of school age children. I would be more comfortable if attempts to white-feather him were to cease.

I’m not sure whether to thank you for the kind words or take umbrage at the comments on my punning skills...

I will always defend your claim to be PB's second best paronomast.

Hmmm...give me a second to think that over.

dixiedean said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

MaxPB said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

Not really, it's been very disorganised and people have been proved to be irresponsible and not isolating after testing positive and the state has been left wanting in many areas. Any thoughts of exceptionalism should have been washed away by the virus response both from the state and the people.

The NHS, academic and pharmaceutical contribution is world class.

Yes, that has been, no doubt. Though on non virus stuff the NHS is overseeing a disaster in healthcare with millions of missed cancer diagnoses, GPs refusing to see patients and people afraid of going to hospital appointments.

In the endless stream of Boris, Dido and Serco mishaps it’s important to remember that elsewhere there is much to celebrate and not to take for granted.

I also think academia hasn't covered itself in glory, the base model of viral replication here is still getting it wrong.

All models are wrong. The question is whether they are useful. The virus was clearly out of control when the scientists put the brakes on back in March. The model was instrumental in getting government to wake up. As such it served an important purpose.

The circuit breaker models presented to SAGE predicts it will save somewhere between low 1000 and 107k lives...it is not useful at all.

Although, in fairness, it's probably correct.
And how often can that be said?

And totally useless...you can't make public policy on a model that has such a wide range..

Also just think about the models output for a moment. The upper end is 100k lives SAVED by the end of the year....not even 100k deaths, but saved lives vs no 2 week lockdown. That would mean deaths would be occurring at an insane rate, totally unlike the first wave (despite better medical understanding etc etc etc).

UK special forces are involved in dealing with an "ongoing incident" on board a tanker situated off the Isle of Wight, the BBC understands.

I am going to guess they aren't delivering free meals?

Casino_Royale said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

For all the mistakes I do not think HMG have performed much worse than other governments to be fair

What we're seeing now is the difference between a Prime Minister who's on top of his brief (Cameron) and an extremely lazy and slapdash one (Johnson).

Cameron would have closed this down by Friday last week, and amended the narrative by pushing the issue onto his turf. He got criticised for being an "essay crisis" PM for that but at least he recognised a crisis when he saw one, and actually wrote the essay and got it in on time. He'd have learnt lessons from it on how to avoid it again.

Boris simply can't be arsed. He doesn't do his red boxes. He doesn't think even one step ahead and just lets events happen. Meanwhile various backbenches and civil servants either stick to the Government's original message or try and triangulate with the developing political arguments, risking them looking stupid and foolish as things develop (and ultimately) change.

Eventually when things spiral out of control Boris realises he has no choice but to backpedal. By that stage he's surrendered all initiative and looks like he's reacting to events rather than shaping them, because he is.

There's a reason Max Hastings, Michael Howard, David Cameron and all the mayoral deputies who used to work for him thought he was useless - because he is.

Fair comment

And I would be very content for Cameron to be dealing with this

Tanker crisis is over

7 detained

IOW incident resolved by Poole residents.

https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1320455034874826754

BBC breaking - saying within the last few minutes the situation with the tanker is apparently resolved.

The tanker has slowed, one of the lifeboats is alongside.

Apparently seven stowaways on board. Suggestion is that the SBS based at Poole may just have gone in; either the helicopter I saw go in low or one of the pursuing boats.

IanB2 said:

BBC breaking - saying within the last few minutes the situation with the tanker is apparently resolved.

The tanker has slowed, one of the lifeboats is alongside.

Just of interest, are you getting this information on line via Marine tracking

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Tanker crisis is over

7 detained

Do we know why?

I assume hijack at sea but the detail will emerge

IanB2 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

IanB2 said:

BBC breaking - saying within the last few minutes the situation with the tanker is apparently resolved.

The tanker has slowed, one of the lifeboats is alongside.

Just of interest, are you getting this information on line via Marine tracking

A mix of marine tracking and what I can see out of the window

I did not realise you were literally on site

Breaking

Vessel was in ballast with no oil

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Casino_Royale said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

MaxPB said:

52k cases in France. Wtf is happening over there.

It is seriously worrying right across Europe just now

Tbf, this is us in two weeks unless the government gets a grip on self isolation and testing failures.

An honest question

Is anyone testing in Europe any better than the UK or Germany

Not particularly, I'd say that France, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium testing is worse than our system, Germany and Italy probably marginally better.

Ultimately every country suffers from the same issue of people not isolating after testing positive. Nations who have effectively defeated the virus have very good isolation measures (Australia, NZ) or people who are responsible and isolate properly without needing special measures (SK, Japan).

We seem to delight in attacking our own system which I understand is near a 400,000 a day capacity and is not far off Germany.

And of course the countries who have best dealt with this are all in the Southern Hemisphere and in New Zealand case 1500 miles from nearest land in Australia and comprises two islands with wide open spaces

The British response to Corona has much to be proud of, with only the government letting the side down.

For all the mistakes I do not think HMG have performed much worse than other governments to be fair

What we're seeing now is the difference between a Prime Minister who's on top of his brief (Cameron) and an extremely lazy and slapdash one (Johnson).

Cameron would have closed this down by Friday last week, and amended the narrative by pushing the issue onto his turf. He got criticised for being an "essay crisis" PM for that but at least he recognised a crisis when he saw one, and actually wrote the essay and got it in on time. He'd have learnt lessons from it on how to avoid it again.

Boris simply can't be arsed. He doesn't do his red boxes. He doesn't think even one step ahead and just lets events happen. Meanwhile various backbenches and civil servants either stick to the Government's original message or try and triangulate with the developing political arguments, risking them looking stupid and foolish as things develop (and ultimately) change.

Eventually when things spiral out of control Boris realises he has no choice but to backpedal. By that stage he's surrendered all initiative and looks like he's reacting to events rather than shaping them, because he is.

There's a reason Max Hastings, Michael Howard, David Cameron and all the mayoral deputies who used to work for him thought he was useless - because he is.

Asleep at the wheel - with a suspended drivers license AND an open bottle of gin in the glove box.

Isn't that a US crime, the open bottle, rather than an English one?